The following interview took place on Oct 26th, 2014 between Maryanne Pope and Rick Gardner. Maryanne is the widow of Calgary Police Const. John Petropoulos. Rick was John’s Sergeant and close friend at the time of his death. John died in 2000 during the investigation of a break and enter complaint at a warehouse. He was searching the mezzanine when he stepped through a false ceiling and suffered a head injury. There was no safety railing in place to warn him, or anyone, else of the danger. This interview has been shortened from its original form.
Maryanne: What impacts—emotional, psychological, spiritual and physical—did John’s death have on you personally?
Rick: Emotionally, John’s death hit me really hard. When John went into that building, I was there. I was the supervisor and John ended up getting injured on my watch. John wasn’t just a colleague. He was a good friend. I had golfed with him 7 or 8 times that year. I had renovated his bathroom. We had a professional and personal relationship—and I had got to know John better than many.
Psychologically, I was responsible for John before his death. After his death, I was responsible for his family, you and his teammates. Sometimes I get flashbacks of things that I didn’t remember then but do remember now. I just get glimpses now and then of things that happened that night—not all at once…they just come in small bits.
From a spiritual perspective, I asked why John died. What was the purpose? You look for answers that you don’t get. Your faith tests you. I didn’t get any answers. As a friend and a supervisor and a policeman, I was angry and bewildered. I went through all sorts of phases.
Physically, as you know, I passed out on your front porch the day after John’s death. I couldn’t sleep well for a long time. It took a long, long time to be able to sleep well again. I went to a naturopath and that helped get me straightened out.
John’s death affected me on all four levels. John wasn’t only one of my guys. I wasn’t just his supervisor. He was also a good friend.
Maryanne: As you know, Darren Leggatt, the K-9 officer who went into the building with John, started CPR on him when he found him in the lunchroom. Did you also perform CPR on John? Did any other team-mates on the scene?
Rick: No. I did not perform CPR on John. I remember two or three officers around me. I remember calling for EMS and then calling for an escort to get him to the hospital. There wasn’t enough room to do anything else for John. And the paramedics were there so fast. I don’t even remember Darren doing CPR. I remember Darren being very emotional—but I don’t remember seeing him doing CPR.
And I don’t remember other police officers doing CPR. That part of it—the scene—is a blur. I remember finding John with two or three other officers. I knew John was in good hands. I remember basically kicking myself into getting things moving. I knew we had to get the paramedics on scene as quick as possible. I knew I had to advise people on what to do. And I knew we had to get John to a hospital as fast as possible.
Maryanne: Are you okay with me asking you these questions?
Rick: Yes. I have thought a lot about John’s death over the past 14 years. But when you ask me these specific questions, I find I’m going right back into the memory bank that has protected me all these years.
Maryanne: After John’s death, members of his team told me how professional you were on scene: that you were an excellent leader. Why do you think they would say that? What did you do—or didn’t do—that would cause them to make this observation?
Rick: I don’t know. I think I kicked into the fact that there were things that had to be done. I just kicked into that supervisory role. The other officers in the building were Lil, Joel and Darren and we could all hear John trying to breathe but we couldn’t find the lights. It was a deep, deep type of breathing…I can’t explain it. I remember being on the radio and telling the dispatch what had happened and that we needed EMS. Then I called our Inspector.
I don’t know why they said I was a good leader. But in a crisis, business has to get done. People have to know what has happened and where we go from there.
My emotions didn’t kick in until I got in the van. I don’t remember going to pick up the Inspector. But the Inspector made me stop the van and he took over driving because he realized I wasn’t in any shape to. I remember my emotions really kicking in at that point.
I have dealt with John’s death but I don’t think I’m in the same place as you, since you have lived it over and over again through your writing, public speaking and the JPMF (John Petropoulos Memorial Fund). And to be honest, being interviewed with questions like we’re doing here is very different from telling John’s death as a story.
For example, with your CPR questions, my memory goes right back to that point in time. I don’t think I have PTSD. When I think about John, it’s not sad for me. When I remember John, they are good memories—and far outweigh the fateful day John died. But your questions are directing me right back to the scene of John’s death.
Maryanne: Did you change how you approached your job as a police officer?
Rick: I always cared about my officers—that’s why I wanted the photo of the team taken at Chinook mall. But after John’s death, I thought more about the human side of policing and how to be a better supervisor. John’s death reminded me that things can happen on the job—and they can happen quickly.
Maryanne: What impacts did John’s death have on you professionally?
Rick: I think I have changed professionally because I fully understand the impacts of a line of duty death. Before John’s death, I knew it could happen—and had happened to a partner of mine earlier in my career. But John’s death made me realize, again, that it does happen and the impacts are horrible, so if I can play some sort of role in helping ensure it doesn’t happen to someone else, then I have a responsibility to do so.
For example, when I retired from the police service and went to my new job as a supervisor with the Sheriffs, I was responsible for the training. When the highway patrol started, the communication system was okay but not stellar. I had it changed so that if an officer was on the road, a back-up could be there within 5 minutes. Officer safety is paramount. I think John’s death made me a more careful and caring supervisor and manager, knowing first-hand what can happen.
Maryanne: Further to that comment, after John’s death, did you change how you approached your job as a Sergeant/leader of a team?
Rick: Yes. I formed relationships even more than I did before. I think it is really important to know how the people who work for you, and with you, tick. The people that were there the night John died—we have a bond that is probably difficult for most people to understand. Even so, it still strikes me as odd that John is gone.
Maryanne: Can you explain a bit about the process of leading your team through the aftermath of John’s death?
Rick: That was a tough thing because there was no bad guy. So we couldn’t really direct our anger or other feelings towards someone. But the job of policing still had to get done, so the team had to pull together to get it done. People were hurting but they had to get over the fact that something bad had happened and they needed to move forward. If they didn’t hit the road with their A-game, then worse things could happen. They had to get it together.
I suggested that if anyone wanted to see the psychologist, they should. I did—and told them that I did, hoping that I would be an example to the team.
I remember us talking for long periods of time at Parade at the beginning of shift. It was important to let people vent and talk about John and what had happened. But at the same time, they had to be focused on their job. They had a job to do and it is an extremely important job because the next call could be life or death.
The team really became close after John’s death—more like a family. I had lots of one-on-one sessions with people, usually over coffee. I tried to lead by example.
Maryanne: Do you have any further insights you can offer police officers who may be dealing with the on-duty death of a colleague—or any other situation that might be challenging them?
Rick: Yes. Talk to someone…anyone. Talk to your colleagues, your wife, your husband, your friend. Don’t be afraid to seek professional help. I did. It’s not a weakness.
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Previously Published on Pink Gazelle
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Photo Courtesy of Author
Team 6F, Calgary Police Service, 2000: John Petropoulos is second from left in back row; Rick Gardner is fourth from left in front row