Oh, OK. You’d ‘hit that thing hard?’ Thanks for letting me know.
A professional conversation between a woman and two men should not end with one of the men breathlessly informing the other man what sort of perversions he wishes to perform on the woman who just walked away.
Can we agree on that?
If you’re the guy who skeeves out the rest of us with lurid details of your sexual escapades, let me say loudly and proudly: shut up. Forever.
What makes a man think other men want to hear about his sexual adventures? And at work! Is there something—some gene, some recessive trait—that makes certain guys think the workplace is their very own Penthouse Forum?
Or is it me? Am I the weird one? The uptight mook who calls human resources when the Creepy Sex Dude leaves a slime trail in his office. It could be me.
But let me back up and ask you if you’ve experienced anything like this scenario that followed an impromptu gathering in the office hallway.
PROFESSIONAL WOMAN: OK, then. I’ll send you a meeting request.
ME: Good. I can make it any day next week.
(WOMAN WALKS AWAY)
SEX DUDE, OGLING THE WOMAN’S ASS: Lemme tellya, I’d like to send her a request to meet with my big …
ME: Whoa! Easy!
SEX DUDE, ELBOWING ME: Y’know. A little … y’know. She’s hot, dude. I’d hit that thing hard.
ME: Guh.
♦◊♦
If you’re Sex Dude, you and I aren’t friends. What’s more, I’ve given you every signal that we aren’t friends and that I think you’re fucking gross. You know what that signal was? It was when I told you you were fucking gross.
Sure, we have to work together. But Sex Dude can’t possibly not know that I loathe him.
Sex Dude is the guy who complains that it’s a damn shame he can’t even eyeball a goodlookin’ woman anymore. His complaint comes at the end of the 45-minute sexual harassment PowerPoint; the one we all had to sit through because, according to rumor, Sex Dude stepped out of bounds with that summer intern over in Billing. And rather than call Sex Dude a sexual harasser, management brought in a PowerPoint-ing lawyer to give us all an embarrassing refresher.
For as long as I’ve had jobs, I’ve encountered Sex Dudes. They’re the guys who walk into your office, sit down, and ask you if you’ve been to any of those “gentlemen’s clubs” over on the east side.
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The PowerPoint itself should count as “creating an uncomfortable workplace.” There’s a snicker here and there, but mostly we all just avoid eye contact. I seethe quietly as Sex Dude spends the entire presentation playing Tetris on his phone.
So who are these guys? Who is Sex Dude?
I’m sorry to report that I don’t have a great handle on that question. Though I’ve studied these guys with a morbid curiosity for a long time, this is as close as I can get to a demographic.
He’s usually middle-aged, though I’ve seen guys in their 20s act like Sex Dude. The young ones are easy to smack down. Tell them that kind of shit’ll get them fired. Point out the comb-over Sex Dude losers in the office and tell them that’s where they’re headed. Scare ’em straight.
Sex Dude is typically a mid-level type. He’s not bright. Very often, he reeks of Axe body spray. Y’know. Those commercials might be real.
For as long as I’ve had jobs, I’ve encountered Sex Dudes. They’re the guys who walk into your office, sit down, and ask you if you’ve been to any of those “gentlemen’s clubs” over on the east side.
When you tell him you haven’t, you try to distract him, knowing full well you can’t. You bring up sports, politics … hell, you even bring up work. He fails to follow your conversational lead and he fires up a story about a lap dance.
♦◊♦
I always wonder, what’s the end game here? Let’s pretend, just for a second, that this kind of conversation is welcome. Then what? What’re we trying to accomplish? The guy sits in my office, describes a lap dance, gets a little sweaty on his upper lip and … what? What’re we supposed to do now? Lock the door and close the blinds?
Without exception, I have no desire to witness any of my colleagues in any state of arousal. And there is no place on earth less sexy than the workplace. The stale coffee smell. The buzzing florescent lights. The multi-purpose industrial carpet. All that toner.
I regret that it has taken me this long to mention the women. How would that woman feel if she heard what Sex Dude said when she walked away? Would she be angry? Would she wheel on him and tell him what a piece of dirt he is? And would he just laugh at her, with hate and dismissal?
Or maybe she’d be ashamed. Would she just think Sex Dude is an asshole? Or would she think you are too?
And what if she was your wife or your girlfriend? Or your sister or your mom or your daughter? Would you want to punch the holy shit out of Sex Dude? Cause I would.
So next time you see him, tell Sex Dude the jig’s up. He’s making the rest of us look bad and we’re sick of it.
Do what you do, Sex Dude, but leave it at home.
Or at least, don’t bring it to work.
—Photo Sister72/Flickr
Honestly, I think the problem is you. I work in a retail store (not the retail end… i run the website) and every single man who works in the store talks about all this stuff. Honestly, you should hear some of the stuff… it isn’t just talking about how you want to bang her, some of these guys really get into some kinky shit talking about these women. In fact, if any one of us sees someone smoking hot, he is pretty much under an obligation to let everyone know about her. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems completely… Read more »
“Honestly, I think the problem is you.”
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that …
Maybe you’re right, CJ. I said it could be me. Your comment reminds me of the conversation in “Office Space:”
Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I’ll tell you what I’d do, man: two chicks at the same time, man.
And just because it seems normal doesn’t make it right. I cringe every time I hear a man (or even a woman) talk in an objectifying fashion about their opposite sexes, as though I am supposed to care. My fiance’s “friend” (if he even sees him as that) once made a comment in Wal-Mart that made me want to run to a door. He openly looked at a woman’s butt with ogling eyes, whistled, and said, “I’d tap that” as though my fiance and I were supposed to respond in some manner, as though we were supposed to care, as… Read more »
Wow, that picture is just all types of wrong!
I’m pleased to report that I had nothing to do with picking that photograph. That guy’s beyond creepy.
Listen, I’m really grateful to everyone who read this thing and bothered to comment, even if you somehow came to the weird conclusion that I’m on some kind of jihad against the fellas.
I wish my GMP story on Frampton Comes Alive got this many readers and comments.
https://goodmenproject.com/arts/not-just-live-double-live/
Lol you are so not, Patrick. I mentioned tha I think this site is about embetterment of one’s fellow man, that’s precisely what I think you were trying ot achive. That it stuck a nerve menas it will stay in the back so f the minds of your readers, and perhaps affect positive change moving forward. I’m the absolute last child in a very large family and as such have neices and nephews of a very broad age range. Oftentimes, when the older ones do something bad and I have to speak to them I find myself saying “you’re better… Read more »
Ew! Old people!
No, I think I pointed out that I’ve encountered younger Sex Dudes. Also, don’t be sure I’m not older than you, Henry. Just sayin, is all.
Hi Patrick. I’d upvote you but you don’t have buttons. I’m 66.
I noticed too that there was an age factor in this. Is it more “creepy” if an older person is sexual? I can tell you that my students, who are typically around 20, are just as inappropriate as “that guy.” One of the unfortunate themes that crops up on GMP is how older men are creepy for showing desire, admittedly toward younger women, but still…
Is this “every office” in the country or in the world? My, what a busy person! When did the writer have time to visit EVERY office (whether the country or the world)?
Sexual harassment does happen, from both men and women, but “EVERY office?” I’ve worked for 1 government agency, 1 Fortune 10 companies, 1 other Fortune 500 company companies, and 2 small businesses and have never seen evidence of this, and certainly not in EVERY office. This the quality of sensationalism I would expect from British tabloid.
I know! It’s hard to believe! But yes, I actually visited every office in the entire world. And I concluded that every man in those offices is a sexual harasser. Except for this 1 government agency, 1 Fortune 10 companies, 1 other Fortune 500 company companies, and 2 small businesses. I didn’t find any there.
Oh..Oh, my VIRGIN ears!!!! Hey, can we get off the “creepy” and “predator” discourses? I probably wouldn’t like that guy either, but this is gender essentialism. Creepy is like the “N”-word applied to men. Predator is used so promiscuously now, it’s meaningless.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that was the first use of the word “predator” on this page.
Well, we’re talking about how your article maps onto the world. I admit that guys like that are a pain, but I’d almost rather hear that than a bunch of sports talk from people who never play sports. And, yeah, maybe not in the office, but sharing confidences with a male buddy about who you’d like to “do” can be fun. You better believe women do this.
I think you’ve completely misunderstood.
The author was specifically talking about being talked to by someone he did not have a strong pre-existing relationship with, and more importantly, *did not* want to share confidences with.
You then compare it to sharing confidences with a “buddy” with whom you presumably have a pre-existing relationship whose boundaries are well known.
And why does a comparison to women need to be made at all? Is it not enough that men can share this experience and discuss this as an aspect of male bonding?
I don’t think this conversation is all that specific.
And, in any case, I personally am tired of the current “boundary fetishism.” It’s, in my opinion, the bureaucratization of everyday life.
The only thing i’d tell him is to keep that to himself when he’s around me, not my problem if he continues to do it.
I don’t care to police grown adults.
William, it’s one thing to say it, another to be in the situation, and quite another to confront someone directly who violated you.
In a perfect world, a ‘grown adult’ wouldn’t touch someone who didn’t give him consent.
“not my problem if he continues to do it.”
And really, isn’t that what GMP is all about?
“I don’t care to police grown adults.”
You don’t need to. That’s what police (and HR) are for.
How right you are but there are alot of people out there who feel men should be policing each other.
If a woman finds herself in that situation she should seek help, but don’t expect other men to set the creepy guy straight.
No expectation there. I was hopeful (and I was right) that hearing someone mention my comments would be enough for him to knock it off, the person just happened to be male.
Truthfully, before taking it ot a level that may limit or completely obliterate a person’s career, I’d rather give them the opportunity to self police. These situations are tricky and often multi-faceted, so really, all due consideration must be paid to circumstances.
Obviously if he didn’t stop I would have no choice but to elevate the issue.
THANK YOU! Ugh, they DO exist in every office, and for the most part fit your description. And yes, confrontation is pretty useless if you’re the target. It doesn’t get resolved, these creepers are just hateful little men. I currently work in an office full of 40-something men (frame of reference: I’m early 30’s) with whom I interact professionally and politely. Except for that one creeper, they are all kind, considerate and professional with me. When his behaviour exceeded the limits of appropriate behaviour (he smacked me), I told one of his friends that he should perhaps keep his hands… Read more »
I think Sex Dude very often has a family at home. That doesn’t seem to bother him. Slapped you? Like, slapped you on the rear end like you just sacked the quarterback? That’s not even remotely OK. “What will it take for men like that to just stop?” It’ll take more than just saying something to his friend. It’s awesome that he left you alone after you told his friend. But if you’d mentioned something to management, the other women in your office might not have discovered Sex Dude. HR people and management types live in terror at the thought… Read more »
Kind of. It was top of butt, not full-on cheek. My coffee spilled. Why did I not say anything to him directly or to HR? 1. It creeped me out, the thought of confronting him was too much. 2. I was new at the time. I have worked hard to establish myself here, which is not easy when you’re 10+ years junior to everyone and when they have that much more field experience than you. I had no idea where the allegiances might lie, nor did I want to come off as a trouble maker (which is unfortunate, but sometimes… Read more »
I don’t see this article as misandric in isolation. I’ve met “this guy” in various roles in my career. I look at this article as encouraging people to act rather than remain passive. I’ve had situations where I couldnt say anything because of my status in the company (junior to the guy in question) and I’ve also had situations where I’ve let him know that I felt his commentary was unacceptable- usually with a look and a dismissive comment rather than a lecture. In the context of the GMP as a whole I can see why people would react negatively:… Read more »
The discussions where all men and women turn into Fred and Ethel Mertz are the ones that depress me. The cartoonish, binary, can’t live with/without ’em thing is very played.
by the way, I appreciate the way you interact in the comment section.
CW, I completely agree. I used to work in a sales job, and I’ll never forget the time I was working with a potential customer and he suddenly began to comment on a woman in a nearby coffee shop. I was extremely uncomfortable, especially in the context of trying to close a sale: if I suddenly got all morality-police I would lose the customer, and it was my job to keep the customer. This piece can easily relate to men’s experiences, and even if there’s no recommended easy solution (again, in many workplace relationships it is simply impossible to call… Read more »
What makes a man think other men want to hear about his sexual adventures? And at work! Is there something—some gene, some recessive trait—that makes certain guys think the workplace is their very own Penthouse Forum? Simple. As the script of being a man goes we are supposed to have sex on the brain all the time. From there there’s a presumption that since you are both men you MUST want to talk about sex. Its basically using stereotypes about men and sex as a “common ground” that all men are supposedly interested in and can relate to. You think… Read more »
Using sexual stuff as a male bonding platform is more pernicious and loaded than using fishing as a male bonding platform. Sex Dude is doing more than just trying to relate: he’s also trying to demean and divide.
Though I’m certain a fish would feel demeaned by workplace fishing banter.
I don’t recall saying they happened on the same level or that fishing is as insidious as derogatory sex talk, just that they both happen. Its very possible to have a respectable sex conversation. The guy you speak of here fails horribly, but its possible.
Though I’m certain a fish would feel demeaned by workplace fishing banter.
Well considering that said talk would be about how to efficiently lure, capture, kill, and possibly eat I don’t think they’d like much.
Every office also has women that are deliberately making sexual displays and flashing sexualised body parts, which is a form of assault on everyone in the vicinity. There are also the office female creepers who sexually assault men when drunk at the office Christmas party. To focus only on the male creepers is sexist and misandrist.
The only reason I didn’t make the same comment is because by his post it doesn’t seem that Patrick is trying to deny such women exist (Hugo S. would take it that far but I don’t think Patrick would). I’m willing to shrug it off as “he’s not talking about it this time” rather than presume “he’s pretending it doesn’t happen”.
And you are right, female creepers do exist. Not only by showing their bodies, they do sometimes touch inappropriately touch. I worked with a friend, male, about 5 years younger than me, who once I came upon being inappropriately touched by a 50’s woman. She purred out something to the effect that if she was a ‘real’ cougar (???), she would teach him a few things. The look of discomfort on his face was beyond tragic I think the article is being directed at men because this site is the Good MEN Project, where men aim to embetter themselves, so… Read more »
This just in: there’s a built-in gender imbalance of power in the American workplace. We’ll update you as this breaking news unfolds.
Do female Sex Dudes exist? I suppose I’ve encountered women in the workplace who do seem to use sexuality to their advantage. But there’s not an imbalance of power around the drunk woman at the Christmas party. The big difference: it’s not professionally undermining when a woman gets all Sex Dude-y around guys who are just trying to do their jobs. It’s just weird.
it was a trifle undermining to me when the VP of Sales (a 45ish woman) tried to get me (a 25 yr old acct exec) to spend the night with her after a sales meeting rather than go home to my wife…
Yeah. That’s no good.
Patrick Do TGMP writers never look at research and just trot out tired old tropes and feminist b/s instead? “Men victims of sexual harrassment Men were more likely to be sexually harassed in the workplace than women, according to new academic research. Behavioural scientists Dr Don Hine and Roberta Martin from the University of New England also found that men had greater difficulty coping with sexual harassment and were more likely to quit their job because of it than women. The academics based their research on a questionnaire participants filled out anonymously that asked if they had been sexually harassed… Read more »
“Do TGMP writers never look at research and just trot out tired old tropes and feminist b/s instead?”
Pretty much.