“You’re too emotional. You used to be fun.
You’re so jealous.”
Most women have heard these labels. Why?
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I recently wrote a post entitled Why We Women Need to Ease Up on Our Men and openly discussed the ways we women need to pull back a bit and have patience with our men and our differences. This was written not from a superior place of judgment, but instead from a place of respect for those differences.
This post is the other side of the coin, and no I’m not going to shame men. I vote for peace between the sexes by honoring our differences. I’m going to speak for myself and for the women I’ve known. I can’t possibly speak for all women but I can tell you we are tired of being labeled. The quick sword of a well placed label invalidates how we’re feeling, cuts to the center of our hearts, and makes relating to you feel like a losing battle.
Here are a few examples of these labels:
You’re too emotional.
Want to know why we seem so emotional as we become louder and louder, and talk faster and faster while repeating ourselves during a fight? We’re trying to be heard.
Sound of crickets?
This isn’t going to make sense but trust me here.
If you would state the obvious out loud, something like: I can see you’re really upset right now or I can tell you’re really mad right now or I can see you’re really hurt right now, you will diffuse our reaction by 75%.
If you would then repeat back to us something we’ve just said to you, we will most likely stop in our tracks as the sound of shocked silence descends upon the room. If you try to interpret what we said—that won’t work, but if you repeat back a sentence or two of what we’ve actually said, tears of relief will come.
Hearing us is not the same as taking blame. When we know you get our world in those moments of upset, we relax a bit.
Women want to be heard. That’s why listening to us talk with our friends can be so baffling. We want our friends to hear us and we want to hear ourselves. Most women solve problems by merely talking them out over and over again. This might seem counterintuitive to you, but the goal here is simply increased understanding
Much of how we problem solve and come to terms with how we’re feeling is through talking. Half the battle is solved if you let a woman know you’ve heard what she’s saying. Defending, explaining, and problem solving shall not end the battle, but hearing her and letting her know you have, does.
“You’re so jealous!”
We want to trust you, but please remember, we all have the primal urge to defend our territory. We know women and we understand seduction. In the back of our minds we’re wondering if that friendly woman you think is oh so nice, might actually be stepping sideways into the territory of our relationship.
Sure some of us carry heavy baggage filled with scars of betrayal, but most women do trust their men. It’s when we perceive you as taking us for granted and see you turn on the charm towards another woman, that we get nervous. When you stare at another woman, even though we know it’s in your nature to look, somewhere in the back of our mind it feels like huge disrespect in front of another woman. It would be as though you were at a dinner party with a group of people and your woman turned to the man next to her and said, “Harry, would you please help me solve this problem at work? Joe isn’t smart enough.” Yep—it stings just like that.
Admittedly in the beginning of the relationship we might have even pointed out a beautiful woman, but back then everything was new. Let’s face it, over time relationships can get hard. If we see your eyes lingering too long or your charm coming on too strong towards another woman after a particularly rough patch between us, we’re going to be sensitive.
If instead of getting mad at that sensitivity or labeling our behavior as jealous—you wrapped your arms around us, looked into our eyes and said I love you babe, you are who I desire—zillions of fights would dissolve before ever having a chance to take root.
Sure that’s extra reassurance that you might wish we didn’t need, but we do. We can continue the gender battle of who’s right and who’s wrong, or we can meet in the middle and work to give one another what we know might ease our differences. (That’s why I wrote the other post.)
“You used to be fun.”
This one knocks a woman off her sensual, self-assured, sexy track so fast it will make you wonder why there’s frost on the sheets between you. You see, we’re still fun, but we’re feeling tired and taken for granted.
See a pattern here? Being taken for granted is the #1 complaint of most women I know—and I’ve coached a lot of them. Yes, it’s a double-edged sword, you don’t feel like investing time with us when we’re complaining, but complaints usually stem from what we perceive as our man not making an effort to be present with us.
What the heck does that mean? It means putting down the phone, stopping the distractions, and spending some quality time eye to eye connecting. Hold our hands, kiss us just because and out of the blue, and make eye contact. Flirt with us a little. Go back to the days before you had us and make the effort to be present. Your presence is the biggest present you can give a woman. When we don’t feel it, we become hyper-sensitive as we try to figure out why. This scenario is no breeding ground for fun and silliness, fun comes from a relaxed and secure woman. Your presence facilitates feelings of relationship security.
When both sexes can successfully negotiate the language and style the other needs, we’ll facilitate peace within our relationships.
By speaking in the language a woman needs to feel safe, respected and loved, and by dropping the labels, you meet her half way. And when both sexes drop their stories, baggage, and blame games, we can stand on the bridge of peace together.
…..
You might also enjoy Why We as Women Need to Ease Up on Our Men
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Tamara, I really appreciated your article about “Why Women Need to Give Men a Break” and this article as well. Both brought up really valip points that I’ve observed in my relationships and those of friends and family likewise. But, I feel compelled to bring up an issue about what’s going on with men today which isn’t spoken about often. It’s something which, I’ve found, has really impacted my relationships in ways that I am still only beginning to understand as I accept these things for what they are and let go of my fears of facing them. A lot… Read more »
This article is very on point, well done. I also wish you would have addressed the “you’re crazy” label as I, being a man, have trouble handling this one, and I would like to know how to be better about it.
At the crux of most relationships and their challenges is the art of communication. I learned a while ago to just sit and listen to my wife when we get together at the end of the day. She shares all and sundry and I listen happily. Most men are result focused and want to get to the summary or the issue so they can present a solution. Hence, why many men cut in on women (and men) in conversations. However, I learned through coaching and training mixed rooms on communication skills, that most women just need to talk things out.… Read more »
thanks for the tip Richard, I’ll look that up…. I agree 100% communication is the key, and hubby and I have always struggled with that – we just stay wrapped up in the kids, sweep it all under the rug and let the great divide get bigger ;-(
Is it not telling to anyone else that there are no comments on this, no men saying “well done, yes, this is something we should work on”? While on the counterpoint article, there are a bunch of men insisting that women are aggressively mucking up relationships and they need to back off and learn to relate to men differently? No two way street here, huh? It’s just the ladies who need to do things differently?
As Tamara said, crickets chirp.
To be clear, I’m not saying I agree with everything Tamara says. It’s still incredibly oversimplified and I think it’s improperly gendered. Much like the other article, these are all good tips for any serious conversation with any adult of any gender. Saying “you used to be fun” isn’t even something that should ever be an answer to an issue raised in a relationship. It’s deflecting and an irrelevant personal attack. What should be said here is “don’t accuse your partner of not being any fun, but examine why the heck you’re a giant child that would rather taunt someone… Read more »
@ Erin “I have no issue with you airing whatever ways you believe women should cut men slack. I just want you to do it in the right article so that you can give equal and fair credence to women in this one. ” Where in this article do I ask women to cut men slack. “Am I interested in talking about the ways women are unfair to men in this article? Nope. ” No you don’t because you’d like to believe that men should cut women slack because men are the problem. Why should men cut women slack unless… Read more »
Most of your comments in this article and in the other article centered around what women needed to do to help men, John. What I actually believe is that men should cut women slack because women are imperfect and we need support and help even when we aren’t at our best. So actually, the complete opposite of what you attempted to infer. Next time try asking okay? What I want is see men give women fair credence in this thread that they received in the other. I see now that that is simply not going to happen. Both articles are… Read more »
Gentlemen, I feel I’ve made my point and yet it’s left a hollow feeling. I think it goes back to what Erin said about this being a post to give women a break too. I’m not changing my opinion that there is a natural societal bias that women are better at communicating (it’s true opening up is part of the communication chain) and more empathic because of this. I will point out though that this is a very high bar with very high expectations. It must be very difficult to be expected to be emotionally available at a whim. What… Read more »
Well John, we share one thing in common. That same hollow feeling. Only after you spent a good chunk of this conversation airing your grievences against women, while other men under this article engaged in the same, none of you actually taking the time to voice ways you could cut women slack, you throw us ladies a meager little bone. I guess I should feel grateful for that but I just don’t.
@ Erin “none of you actually taking the time to voice ways you could cut women slack,” John Anderson says: November 16, 2013 at 5:46 am “Maybe we assume ourselves that when a woman hasn’t heard us that she actually did and just disregarded it. Let’s assume the best of her instead. What’s the harm in trying again at another time?” Didn’t I just do that? So men are given an article where OUR issues have been defined for us by women (Tamara and her female friends) and we’re supposed to do what, tell you ways we agree with you?… Read more »
@John Gottman I am with you.Coming together to solve our problems is the ticket.It is getting there that is the challenge.We need a new pathway.The empathy,consideration and selflessness needed to get there is in short supply.I realized something long ago.Feminism forced me to look at myself in ways I hadn’t before.I had to start from scratch and rebuild my sense of self and my worldview.I went into the cave for forty days and forty nights.I thought they were doing similar work.Boy was I wrong.
Ogwriter, what actions can you take to come together to solve problems? Do you believe you are already taking them and if so, what are they?
@John Gottman You are so right.The story I shared of the partner who used my vulnerabilities to hurt my self esteem badly,actually claimed she didn’t know what they were because I had not told her.I spent hours giving her specifics,until she grew frustrated,then I stopped.At this point she was able to articulate back to me what I described to her. Mind you,she was a therapist,an expert communicator, and had begged me to open up to her,said it was critical to the future of our relationship. So whenever I hear a woman go on and on about communication I know that… Read more »
@ ogwriter I think a lot of it comes from gender based assumptions and I wish that others who’ve doubted men and tried to avoid the conversation would weigh in. I think people believe that women are better communicators (and I think that they are), which leads them to believe that women naturally listen. Notice that listening was never mentioned in the other thread, it was assumed, but in this thread women are “trying to be heard.” I think this leads people to believe that women are better at relationship building so they assume that women must be empathic. That… Read more »
@ ogwriter
Hopefully the comment before this gets approved or this will sound weird. I forgot to mention that this leads to the need to differentiate between men deserving of slack and those that aren’t without the corresponding need to make the same distinction with women.
I know that there are individuals who think I hijacked the thread to introduce topics that were contrary to the purpose of the post. I may have, but I think the only thing I was looking for was validation that it’s not always the man’s fault. That we may not be as adept at this relationship thing, but when we’re hurt, it’s not always our fault or simply in our heads and we don’t always just misinterpret what she means. I think what was bothering me was an assumption that when something is wrong in a relationship, it’s naturally traceable… Read more »
You justify the hijacking because you want validation. Don’t you think we all want validation at some point? If you think by nature of being female that I often feel validated by men or even the men in my own life, you would be mistaken. It’s actually one of the biggest struggles I’ve personally encountered whether it be male family members or romantic partners. Validation is hard to come by no matter what gender you are and your wounds are no less deep then any woman’s may be. Yeah I get it. You got hurts. Welcome to the club. Women… Read more »
@ Erin I wasn’t sure that I even wanted to bother responding to you, but I think that I need to. One thing that often gets lost in discussion is this is The Good Men Project, where we try to determine what makes a good man. I’m not that caught up with this being a “men’s site” thing that other commentators sometimes bring up because I think women can and do contribute to the conversation. Your input is important and necessary, but is determining what a good man should be sufficient or do they have to realize it? We don’t… Read more »
This has nothing to do with wanting to ignore men’s viewpoints or input. I would love to hear men’s viewpoints and inputs about the topic of the article: cutting women slack. But that’s not what is happening. Instead of discussing what men can do to cut women sack, how men can support women, how men can look at their own actions, you instead decided to perpetuate a conversation about more things women do wrong. You want to talk about what women can do to support in both articles. You apparently do not really want to talk about what you and… Read more »
I think Tamara did a great job with both articles. I do wonder though how the articles would have been different if they were written from the point of view of men. In each article women are assumed to be better communicators because they are more willing to express their feelings, but communication is a two way street and after rereading the other article, I still don’t see where women were advised to actually listen to men. She comes close when she talks about communication styles, but I’ve had a girlfriend ask me what I wanted for my birthday and… Read more »
Has a man ever written an article on the GMP where you ever said, “I wonder how the article would have been different if it was written from the point of view of a woman”?
@ Erin
No, but I don’t remember any article on GMP where a man has attempted to define the issues and solutions to both sides of a relationship.
Hi Ogwriter and Adrian The last thing I want is to invalidate men’s feelings and experiences. So now I need some time to think. The statement I made was based on my life experience , from my family and a husband . My father was a war veteran from WWII, and had all the vulnerability a man can have . My mother did not leave him when this developed. I guess he showed it from day one even if he was a professional warrior. I need to think more about your question. Can this be a cultural thing? Is it… Read more »
You are from Norway, aren’t you? I am from Austria. We usually feel that all Scandinavia is always several steps ahead of the rest of the world in every social issue; at the same time the USA is always several steps behind. We are somewhere in between, sometimes surprisingly progressive, sometimes painfully conservative and repressive. (I have more sophisticated thoughts on that observation, which really is only a crude simplification of reality, but that is beside the point here.) Thus it may well be that you don’t see how women would distrust a man showing weakness, that Ogwriter and Adrian… Read more »
There’s even a difference within sub-cultures. The female gang members who were trying to recruit me expected their men to control their women. She related a story of being in a car with the chapter president, his girlfriend, and another guy. His girlfriend said something and he responded by saying something to the effect of some bitch in the back better shut up before she gets slapped. There was the story of the chapter president having the gun pointed at him. She believed her men should never have doubt, weakness or vulnerability. It’s only a canard to get what you… Read more »
Hi Ogwriter, Theorema , Adrian , John and others. I give up. I lack knowledges about how women reacts to emotionaly men in our different cultures. But I personally do not see it as a weakness to show feelings. The problem is if you can not regulate your feelings, or if you try to manipulate others with a show of feelings . My guess is that a person who is clever ,skilled in being emotionally intimately close, he or she can show any kind of feelings without offending or loosing love. It is a skill. But to be near a… Read more »
hi iben, My experience is growing up a heterosexual male in the U.S. in the 70s and I speak from that perspective, but Tamara is right. Men do grow up with our own set of gender expectations. We’re told that we’re naturally bad and violent (boys will be boys). We’re told to “man up”. That we can’t be hurt. That’s why the disclaimer in the other article “This isn’t about the men that hurt on purpose, men that rape, or men that abandon their families.” (boys will be boys) and the lack of same in this thread (man up, no… Read more »
@Iben The behavior in question,whether inspired through nature or nuture, becomes natural.I think its nuture in this case.This kind of retrograde,counterintuitive reaction is not limited to this arena.Many women say they want more men to help with children but then undermine his efforts.I see this as the behavior of unrealized women.Feminism has presumed that women are more naturally evolved than men. They think and have encouraged women to believe that whatever progressive agenda item they want,women want and are ready for. They are not.
I guess I’m just lucky; being a realist I approach things basically the way you described not to with my girlfriend, seems to work out well. The initial response to me combating the reasoning for her being disgruntled or trying to work it out is, of course, a little bit of a rise from the initial temperature, but then things calm down very quickly. And I don’t know for certain, but overall it seems as though any disagreements or miscommunications are solved much quicker now as I don’t just throw cliche or band-aid responses at her; I’m not just going… Read more »
The first of the three labels (“you’re too emotional”) highlights what I think is a very common gender difference between men and women. (Not universal or “programmed” by any means, just seems common in my experience.) When women in a relationship speak and are not heard, they tend to keep trying and trying in a bunch of different ways. When men in a relationship speak and are not heard, they are more likely to give up trying and are more likely to shut down. To the man, her frequent attempts to be heard feels like relentless pursuit, while to the… Read more »
wellokaythen – I think your basic breakdown is absolutely right. That in both of the articles in this set, Tamara is not (as many commenters seem to think) trying to point out the “failings” of one sex or another, but urging both sexes to strive to better understand each other’s methods of communication. She doesn’t (to me) seem to be saying that one sex is more at fault than the other and to imply that she is just because she is writing from a woman’s point of view seems off base. In the article directed at women she encourages women… Read more »
About that whole women are too emotional thing, I’ve heard complaints among some men my age that when women talk about wanting a sensitive man they’re not saying they want a man who’s in touch with his feelings, but rather a man who is sensitive to her feelings. I think there’s a lot more give and take among women because they don’t invalidate each others feelings. I know guys who’ve complained about women who’ve broken up with them really tearing their hearts out because they thought the guy was too needy and then messaging him years later to try and… Read more »
John, I don’t think I’m too clear on what your trying to say. Do you think men need to give women a break sometimes or not?
You’ve given a mix of examples. Some where women seem pretty cruel and others where women seem pretty nice. But this article is about men cutting women some slack. So should women be cut slack sometimes by men or not?
I think everyone needs some slack every now and again. What I’m saying is that communication is a two way street and I’ve heard men complain that women say they want to communicate, but when he finally opens up, it’s ignored. Maybe men need to have more patience with women and be willing to repeat ourselves or approach things from a different angle to help women understand us.
@John Gottman I agree. That’s exactly why I wrote both posts. One for men to ease up on women and the other for women to ease up on men. I think we’re in agreement.
I didn’t discuss men opening up in either post though so you lost me a bit in your comment.
@ Tamara “I didn’t discuss men opening up in either post though so you lost me a bit in your comment.” No worries. I think you were approaching things from a woman’s perspective. I just thought it might be helpful to include a guy’s perspective. I think women are often times surprised or overwhelmed when her man finally opens up. I think sometimes it may not be what she signed up for, but other times I think it can really improve a relationship. I was raised idealizing the traditional family roles. I’ll instinctively look for a woman who fits traditional… Read more »
John, I don’t think anyone with a lick of commo sense would ever doubt that just about everything in life is a two way street. Tamara wrote an article specific for men and then one specific for women. I enjoyed this because I think both genders sometimes desperatelly need their individual needs acknowledged seperate from having to always include the other gender with “but men/women need that too!” I’m not going to get into your comments about men communicating and being ignored. This article is about cutting women slack. Not once again telling us all the ways we fail.
@ Erin ” This article is about cutting women slack. Not once again telling us all the ways we fail.” “”Wylee, I actually agree with alot of your points and find you to be intelligent and well-spoken. However, I don’t really think Tamara is asking that much of us as women. “” And yet you took the time to acknowledge and agree that men fail when discussing dissenting comments on the other thread. On this thread, you won’t tolerate any statement suggesting that women may fail at something unmentioned in the article. Something many men have experienced and something that… Read more »
I thought Wylee was well spoken and intelligent as I believe you to be as well John. But I thought her timing was off to make those points, just as I believe your timing is off. You’re actually implying my comments are some how hypocritical for trying to point Wylee back to the original topic of cutting men slack and doing our part in the article about cutting men slack? And then you say I don’t want to listen to men when I was trying to stick up for the men’s side in that article? Give credence to my comments… Read more »
@ Erin The difference Erin is this. Both articles were written from the perspectives of women. Women get to decide when and how men fail and how women should respond. Women get to decide when and how women fail and how men should respond. Doesn’t sound fair does it? I don’t have an issue with Tamara writing both sides. I’ve read what she’s written in the past and believe that her heart is in the right place. It’s reflected in the way that she ends her article, a call to peace among the sexes. It probably would have helped if… Read more »
Both articles where written from the perspective of one woman who wanted to share her own insight, knowledge, education and beliefs about an area both men and women could improve upon; not some monolithic group of women that you may believe are trying to harm men in some way. You attempted to make it seem like Tamara was some monolithic group of women when she is one woman sharing her viewpoints about both genders. Something she is fully free to do! Men and women are equally free to share their concerns about the other gender, how they believe they may… Read more »
“Something she is fully free to do! Men and women are equally free to share their concerns about the other gender” But for you, it seems only a problem when men do it. “You take issue with men being asked to cut women slack. ” I take issue with men having to cut ALL women slack as women shouldn’t cut ALL men slack. I take issue with there only being a distinction made for one gender. “That is so not fair of you John. Really not fair.” How is that? Do I not ultimately come to the same conclusion? I… Read more »
You gave very robust compliments to Tarmara for the other article, the article that championed men. You went on to respond in detail how women could abide by what Tarmara discussed. In this article, you are full of criticism. It’s really a shame.
@ Erin “in the other thread you talked about what women need to do to give men reasons to be present in dating.” In relation to criticism of MGTOW. If a man chooses not to date, it’s his life. It’s hes choice. Too many women choose to criticize his choice without giving him reasons to enter the dating pool and I don’t think I gave any suggestions. I think it’s unfair of them to do one without the other. They have the option to do neither and I’d be perfectly fine with that. No one is entitled to a relationship.… Read more »
to hold me hostage to something you’ve decided to do to yourself simply because you don’t agree with what I’m saying. And you can keep talking about how I’m not listening but from my perspective, its you that doesn’t want to listen. So who is right here? You? Me? I have no issue with you airing whatever ways you believe women should cut men slack. I just want you to do it in the right article so that you can give equal and fair credence to women in this one. But that’s not something you are ready to do because… Read more »
@John Gottman I’m left scratching my head as to what the point of your comment is.
What I’m saying is for things to work, people have to be willing to listen also and not just talk. A lot of guys I’ve spoken to have complained that women don’t actually want a guy who opens up, but I assume feel like they are supposed to so they try to get him to and when a guy opens up he’s needy. Maybe women are just surprised at what they discover and need time to adjust rather than simply relegating him to being too needy. Maybe he needs to be patient with her while she’s adjusting to this new… Read more »
Okay so in the article about women cutting men slack, it’s about empowering men. And in the article about men cutting women slack, it’s still all about empowering men. Come on John, that’s not fair.
@ Erin It’s not about empowering people at all unless you consider giving people space and tome to develop is empowering them then yes, telling men that when you actually do open up to women and get a less than enthusiastic response from her, you probably should give her time to adjust. You might want to try opening up a bit at a time. I think when you’ve been the emotional rock in a relationship, it may take some time for the other person to adapt to the role. By the same token as with the other article, if a… Read more »
Not once in either of the articles did I see the implications that these changes should be immediate and that people shouldn’t be given time to adjust or shouldn’t be patient with their partners. In fact, that’s what I think both articles were advocating in the first place: learning to communicate better with the opposite sex and some common misconceptions each sex has with some typical behaviors of the other and suggestions on how to better navigate those situations. Neither article places any sort of blame and I’m still a little confused where you see this. If you want to… Read more »
What I hear you saying, John, is that men’s common experience in hearing the women in their lives implore them to be more open and communicative with them regarding their feelings is that it turns out women aren’t asking for that. What they actually are asking is “tell me that you feel the same way I do, and that you mean it.” Two very different messages, the latter message not being conducive to feeling like the women in our lives are interested in us for who we are or more interested in what we can do for you (i.e. the… Read more »
What I get from John’s message is the suggestion that it’s very EASY for people to say they want men to open up more, but in some cases, maybe even a lot of cases, that’s not entirely true. It’s something a lot of women say, but many men are still skeptical when they hear it. In some cases, a man in a relationship may in fact be hearing mixed messages about sharing his feelings, even from the same person. A man opening up more means dealing with feelings that may he hard to hear, inconvenient, hard to deal with, and… Read more »
I am skeptical when I hear a woman say she wants a man who is in touch with his feelings for these reasons:1)Most likely the woman carries with her hidden or not so hidden gender biased assumptions about her superiority and my inferiority as an emotionally aware person.2) She probably equates talking with communicating.
@Theorema I gotta ask you,how do you know with such certainty that women do or don’t dump men who open up to them emotionally? Even though the behavior is contradictory,irrational behavior is a big part of the human experience. Professing to want something very badly,getting it,then,rejecting it,for various reasons,happens.For me,it has occured with enough frequency and has anecdoctol support as well that I quite naturally am wary.It would seem as though when men,in general,air legitimate complaints about some aspects of American mainstream female culture,traction is hard to come by.Logic would suggest that men,in general,are going to have some complaints about… Read more »
It appears that not many of you want to cut women any slack at all.
This is the only comment placed after the 15th that hasn’t been deleted. Is this really the comment that you want to keep?
Hi John, if you believe there has been an effort to cut women slack in this article, can you please point me to the comments that showcase that. Maybe I simply don’t see them and they are in this comments field. If you can’t, what’s wrong with my comment? If I can not read proof that you are interested in cutting women slack, then yes, to me, it would appear that there isn’t much interest in cutting women slack at all.
Hi Tamara Maybe you should write an article on this myth that women leave or dump a man if he opens up and show his deepest feelings? I read several men here on GMP say it is so. But how true is it? Is that behind women’s choice to divorce? I don’t think so , unless he has pretended to be somebody else for years and then in marriage show his real self with all its feelings . It is impossible to live close to another human being for years and hide all your vulnerabilies and feelings. So if men… Read more »
Iben,
I think a man’s feeling that being vulnerable will be a turn-off is akin to a woman’s feeling that a glance is a threat. Both are feelings and so not necessarily rational, although I think most men have some experience with their “softer” selves being disrespected and men’s glances certainly can mean something.
Hello Iben,how are you?After reading your post, I was going to write that I am speechless but no one would believe that.You wrote, “Maybe you(Tamara) should write an article on this myth that women leave or dump a man if he opens up and shows his deepest feelings?”Then,you wrote this,”I read several men here on GMP say it is so. But how true is it?” I was one of those men who shared his experiences.Although my partner didn’t dump me,she used the information to hurt me badly.No need to say you are sorry it happened as you did nothing wrong.You… Read more »
Good. We may KNOW that our love will not leave us because of us opening up, but our FEELINGS may still fear it. As with all of those situations, it is not strictly necessary to talk about it and state clearly that it ain’t so, because after all rational self-assured people can be assumed to have no doubts on that score. But we are not all rational self-assured people, and it does our fearful psyches a world of good. So yes, I would applaud if somebody wrote such an article. That being said, if a woman DOES leave you for… Read more »
Hi Tamara, Thank you for this article too. We all need to be cut some slack and just be heard now and then. And to share my own experience in the field of LTR: 1. “You’re too emotional” We both work full time. But you get home half an hour ahead of me (shorter commute), and you’ve had time to kick off your shoes, kick back, read the papers, have a coffe, or whatever. And now you’re fired way back up in “communication” mode. I’ve just got in the door. I’m exhausted from both work and commute. I need to… Read more »
@Flying Kal Sounds like brainstorming together on a reentry plan would be of great benefit to you both. Perhaps you come home and the first 30 minutes are yours with silence? After that, you connect? Negotiating a win/win so you both get your needs met?
On #2 I sense a lot of built up resentment between the two of you. I’m hoping you’re in couples counseling and that you can both quit playing the dance of victim/perp
Thank you for your comment. Wishing you both strength
Hi Tamara, and thanks for your reply. I’m not in a relationship anymore, and haven’t been for quite some time. I have to thank you though, cause your article really struck a chord with me as to why I wasn’t very comfortable in that relationship, and stepping out of it was the right thing to do, probably for the both of us. I started lingering at my job, dreading to go home, feeling anxious at the stress. I felt I wasn’t heard. Maybe, probably, she felt the same thing. But we never managed to negotiate. On #2. Yes, I like… Read more »
Hey Tamara,
about this notion, “By speaking in the language a woman needs to feel safe, respected and loved,”
Can you list for us your top 3 examples of what this sounds like in any given situation? For you personally and the women you work with. What words, tones, or feelings are associated with this language?
Steve, those examples are in the article.
I was looking for even more *specific* examples of what a man could say – word for word – that would create feelings of safety, respect, and love. FYI, I did read every word of the article in great detail and loved it. I’m sure you would not be amazed by how many men can actually benefit by “scripts” to help them understand what this language sounds like. There are millions of men who want to create feelings of safety, respect, and love and do not know HOW to do it in ways women prefer. It’s not that we’re stupid….we… Read more »
Hi Steve, Thank you for your comment. I hesitate to give “scripts” because being authentic is most important. My post was to shine a light on what’s really going on for a woman. The only script-esq I would suggest is under jealousy…the words of reassurance.
My other points are presence and understanding we want to be heard by repeating back what you’ve heard us say as well as the suggestions I make to let a woman know you “get” where she is right now. I can feel/see/sense you’re really upset right now..really hurt right now..really angry right now…really sad.
PS Steve. I want to make sure I answered your question and also hope you understand there’s only so much I can clarify through a comment thread. I don’t want to blatantly advertise (well maybe i do) but if you want a one on one, contact me.
@Steve Since the heart doesn’t exist as a repository for ones’ feelings,shouldn’t we name what we are really talking about? Feelings reside in ones’ brain, which is a completely different way of looking at things.The belief that emotions, like love, come from some wild, magical realm, full of laughter and romance,where logic fears to tread is without much support.After a time,the very idea That love comes from someplace other than the brain seems silly and immature.What also strikes me as a bit immature is the idea that every and any feeling is worthy of validation.Absolutes like this are just as… Read more »
I’d also add to the list, ” *Jessica is so cool, she did x,y or z for her husband/boyfriend.” Which in itself isn’t always bad but the “cool” trope can often be given in a positive affrimations usually in reference to women that act more like how a man’s other male friend would stereotypeically act. Such as Jessica visiting strip clubs with her partner, her being okay with him getting a lap dance infront of her, or other behaviors that some men will qualify simply for the fact that they more align with things that he could do with another… Read more »
I think it’s interesting that we think that a man hiding his interest in another woman from his partner is a sign of caring. I do think that men with wandering eyes are probably never happy with what they have and always looking for something else though. So the key is finding a guy that understand how important it is to invest his time and energy into you, instead of choosing to diversify it amoung other women, whether it’s behind your back or infrton of your face. Seriously, I rather know what he is truly thinking and doing then living… Read more »
I agree with your initial statement @Erin. Hiding sexual desire isn’t exactly healthy. However, I don’t necessarily agree that a wandering eye is always unhappy per say. I get the sense of the article, to care for your partner’s feelings. What I don’t get is why no one calls a spade a spade. If a woman- or man- is looking at her significant other to “catch” him or her watching others, is that not a problem?
If someone is free to check out attractive people as they walk by, why can’t someone be free to watch their partner to see if they are checking out attractive people who walk by? Is the looking part the problem or is it the watching him in his looking the problem? I don’t know Brandy. Both seem pretty darn natural to me. Often times we excuse the naturalness of sexual attraction to others and attempt to shun, dismiss or shame those who have negative feelings about their partner’s sexual attraction in others. Yes, sexual attraction to others is natural. So… Read more »
@Brandy I an trying to figure out what the diff is between a guy with a wandering eye and a woman who crushes on a celeb like Justin Timberlake?Where is the line drawn and who controls the pencil.
Og, I think plenty of men have celebrity crushes. Megan Fox, Olivia Wilde…and so many more I’ve heard men tout the visual virtuces of. After all, there is a popular men’s magazine that actually catagorizes women based on their current popularity…a top 100 list voted on by male viewers. I do not know of a list that specifically exists to catagorize male celebrities. Other then Peoples top 50 “Beautiful” People list. But that list is compromised of both women and men. Also, do men not look at other visual mediums as well?
@ ogwriter
It may come down to potential to cheat. Most people aren’t worried about their significant other having an affair with someone famous who’s out of reach, but someone in the immediate vicinity is a threat.
@Adrian I agree.I think it is important to note that sometimes,perhaps quite often,a persons’ feelings can be irrational.We are also,quite naturally disengenous to a fault.We speak of this process of sharing feelings as if it as natural digestion.I have found,even under optimum circumstances,getting to the truth of someone in an arduos,frustrating process,requiring a good deal of time,patience,tolerance and diplomacy.These are hard won abilities,they are not hardwired.
In my opinion the higher the focus is on gender the more lost in translation it will get. A partner a their strengths,weakness etc should be measured on their on with the natural sex left out of the equation though some think differently.
Putting a attribute on a whole group is something humans do and while I myself have slipped in this regard I try to remember that it is a matter of a certain subset or individual and not the whole.
I think a lot of it comes down to respect for our fellow human beings … compassion for their emotions and respecting their perspective – whether it’s having enough respect for the person to not blatantly look at another attractive person in front of them, to hearing them when they need to express their emotions and needs. And it’s about respecting yourself and leading by example. We can be the person we want to be in relationships if willing to put in the effort.
Well said Celeste. Well said.
Saying publically “Joe is not smart enough” is a non-ambiguous put-down which is broadcast to all of Joe’s friends within earshot.
That’s not quite the same thing as a glance in a mall that the vast majority of people there will not observe because they are not looking, and even if they did the glance could be at the pretty woman or it might be the product display behind her.
@Joe how can you know? I don’t pretend to know for sure how a man feels, how can you be so sure?
I agree. I don’t know what feelings are happening inside another. That’s true.
But I believe that the two things mentioned are not equivalent. To illustrate, the following two sentences would be equivalent, IMO, if they were both uttered within earshot of the person’s friends:
1) . “Harry, would you please help me solve this problem at work? Joe isn’t smart enough.”
2) “Het cutie, would you please come with me for some fun together? Mary isn’t pretty enough”.
I think the belief is that looking at other women implies #2. Just as say, a woman who always, always, goes to other men for help with anything besides heavy lifting could imply #1. Nobody would be daft enough to say such insulting thing out loud, so if a person feels insecure in their relationship they’ll start ‘reading between the lines’ in a bad way. On the other hand, women in general need to realize that even for a perfectly monogamous man, attraction is not a winner takes all situation. If he had to choose, he would choose you every… Read more »
OKay Joe, you don’t get Tamara’s comparison. But as a woman, I did. Sometimes it hurts when your man is looking at another woman. Why can men not just accept this? This doesn’t mean she is “crazy” or “emotionally unstable’. There probably isn’t a woman alive that hasn’t experienced a little hurt, at least soem of the time, of her partner checking out, and non-verbally signaling some amount of sexual interest in someone else. Does that mean we think he’s going to leave the relationship? No. But it does mean that we are seeing a very visual que from our… Read more »
Note: I agree with Tamara’s message. We should always consider the feelings of others before we do things that affect them. I was quibbling only with the example given.. I’m not a fan of inconsiderate men who ogle too much.
I’m usually the emotional one. Have you ever dated a lady scientist? I’m not even very emotional, but to have one’s requests for a return email referred to as “drama” can be a little unsettling. Especially when you have dated someone with moodswings, and you know what drama actually is. Fortunately I found someone who’s more like me.
Hi @Hank, that does sound insensitive.
Glad to hear you’ve found someone you really resonate with. We all deserve that. xo
You speak my heart Tamara. Thank you for this insightful article! I could never say it better 🙂
We need to be careful here. A man should beware of the following things: 1) The jealousy is extreme and unwarranted. For example, you are walking together in the mall and an attractive woman walks by. Your subtle glance at her is met with a furious reaction from your female companion, which often continues unabated for a significant period of time. 2) Her mood swings are severe and frequent. You feel emotionally abused by these behaviors. This is often referred to as the “sweet/mean cycles”. The above could be signs of borderline personality disorder, which afflicts as many as 10%… Read more »
Actually, there are no gender differences, and about 5% of the general population have BPD–half of them men and half women. Just google on it and you’ll find more recent studies that will give you this information.
Men are more likely to get the NPD label vs women that get the BPD label…….and both come in widely varying degrees….. under stress both disorders tend to flare-up. Makes for an extremely “special” kind of midlife crisis…….not pretty……at all.
I thought women were more likely to get BPD and men more likely to get schizophrenia?
And @Max we need to be careful with labels.. Just like in my first post, I wasn’t writing about the men that rape, hurt on purpose etc. I was writing about the average Joe that does his best. This article is about the average healthy woman…not BPD. Taking it there really discredits all the valid points. Did you hear what I was sharing or merely dismiss it as BPD, a quick label?
Max, your comment is something men say all the time about women. If they express an emotion or have a reaction a man cant understand, they label her crazy or over-emotional. The reality is, women don’t just get jealous, scared or upset over NOTHING. To YOU, it might seem like “just a quick glance,” but if you’re like most men, it was more like a fixed stare. You probably weren’t even aware of it because you are acting on animal instinct, just like your lady is acting on her animal instinct to protect “her” territory. Women look to their man… Read more »
@Actually many women can and do get upset and emotional over nothing.A recent commercial demonstrated this point.MOM:I washed your jeans,honey,there by the dryer. DAUGHTER:OMG?!YOU WASHED MY JEANS,MY LiFE IS OVER!!!!Of course the commercial played this behavior off like it was acceptable.I see this kind of drama constantly at the high school where I work.I saw it in my 6 sisters and my mother,cousins and other women I was around.It seems pretty clear that many women don’t control their emotions enough and many men could be more expressive.Men obviously have the ability,based the history of art and literature,to be profoundly emotional.Men… Read more »
@tuttifruiti Actually there are plenty of women who ogle, just as there are plenty of men who are discrete. And hand waving away certain qualities of individuals as animal instinct when it is only exhibited by a menial degree of the population (that I’m willing to bet is relatively small) is foolishness at best. Were it so ingrained as to be animal instinct everyone would do it. Further there are plenty of reasons outside of a woman’s partner that could make her feel insecure, not to imply that most or even any are her fault, but placing heavy blame on… Read more »
I don’t think I’ve ever heard any of those. I have had past boyfriends say things like “you want sex too much” or “you want to spend too much time together.”
@Agemaki Glad you haven’t heard these. There are many others but for the sake of time and space, I kept it to the 3 I hear most from clients. And…compatibility has a much to do with a successful relationship. Thanks for writing.