By Understood
After getting a fashion degree from a college with a learning disabilities program, Stevie Ondra decided to follow her childhood dream: TV and film. She started as a production assistant on an indie film, and worked her way up in the costume and wardrobe department. Today, she works on hit television shows like “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel,” “Gossip Girl,” “The Report,” and “Raising Kanan.” At work, she’s open about her learning differences and what she needs to thrive in her job. Listen in for the inside scoop from Stevie on how to break into the film and television industry.
To find a transcript for this episode and more resources, visit the episode page at Understood. https://www.understood.org/podcast/ho…
We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at [email protected].
Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization dedicated to shaping a world where the 1 in 5 people who learn and think differently can thrive. Learn more about “How’d You Get THAT Job?!” and all our podcasts at u.org/podcasts. Copyright © 2021 Understood for All, Inc. All rights reserved.
Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)
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[Music]
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from the understood podcast network this
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is how’d you get that job a podcast that
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explores the unique and often unexpected
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career paths of people with learning and
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thinking differences
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my name is eleni mathil and i’m a user
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researcher here at understood that means
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i spend a lot of time thinking about how
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we find jobs we love that reflect how we
1:01
learn and who we are
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i’ll be your host
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[Music]
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so my next guest is one of the brains
1:10
behind the clothes you see actors wear
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on television shows
1:13
stevie andra works in costume and
1:16
wardrobe in television for shows like
1:17
the marvelous mrs maisel the americans
1:20
and the report
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stevie has language based learning
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challenges
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and we’re really excited to have her on
1:25
the show welcome to the show stevie
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thank you so much for having me happy to
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be here yeah so we already had someone
1:33
on the show who is a fashion designer
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which is what i went to school for
1:37
originally so
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oh well i’m sure we have a bit to talk
1:41
about then but your work relates more so
1:43
to like costume and wardrobe
1:45
specifically for television
1:47
yeah i always wanted to work in costumes
1:51
because i love the medium of
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storytelling through film and television
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and i’ve always connected with it ever
1:57
since i was a kid we used to make movies
1:59
growing up me and my best friend jamie
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who lived a few blocks away she always
2:03
had video cameras and her family was
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very tech savvy in fifth grade on the
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last day of school we decided to make
2:10
the classic first movie anyone ever
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makes is which is a horror film it was
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just the two of us in this movie playing
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three different roles and
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yeah it just spawned this very creative
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space and we went on to
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make
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so many
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silly little movies we loved it and we
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were just so obsessed with the world of
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cinema and so
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that was the beginning of my love in
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that storytelling world
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so do you think your learning
2:38
differences played any role in your
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interests in film or storytelling or
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costumes
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i think i was always a much more
2:46
creative thinker with my learning
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differences and all of those things and
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that was more of
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my strength and
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what i was focused and excited for
2:56
so i just started to gravitate towards
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those fields but i didn’t know anybody
3:01
in the industry in film and television
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so
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the next thing that was tangible was
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working in fashion designs
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and i was also really interested in
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fashion and i thought it was
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very cool which as soon as you get into
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it you realize how rough and tough it is
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but that was my interest
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i went to marist college because they
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had a really good fashion design program
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and liberal arts degree which is what i
3:26
had wanted and they also had a learning
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disability program which was huge for me
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because i still needed to have help and
3:34
resources within that workspace and so
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marist was the absolute perfect pick for
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me
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and so
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i got a bachelor professional degree
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there and majored in fashion design
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which was a very very intensive program
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but
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i did it and i finished and that was
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great
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and by the time i left did not feel it
3:55
was really the fit for me by the end of
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it all
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fashion is just a very brutal business
4:00
and
4:01
the money’s not great
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so what happened when you started
4:04
looking for a job
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so i
4:07
went into the workforce and was trying
4:09
to get a job even though i wasn’t
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particularly happy in fashion and i
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wound up meeting with this like little
4:14
boutique ad agency
4:17
and trying to network for fashion
4:19
connections and the president of that
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agency was like you know your skills and
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branding and graphic design will
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probably cross over why don’t you intern
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here will pay you which was never
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happening in fashion and you know let’s
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just see what happens so i worked there
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sort of as like
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content coordinator
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junior art director slash admin stuff it
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was a really tiny agency
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the first commercial they did when i was
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working there i pretty much was just a
4:43
wardrobe assistant
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and then that little production company
4:47
decided to keep me on as a stylist for
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them so anytime they had jobs come
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through which was a handful of times a
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year they would ask me to come on and
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then about three years in i was kind of
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like okay i have to pick elaine am i
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gonna stick with advertising or focus on
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film and one someone from that little
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production company was starting to work
5:08
on real big union jobs and i met with
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him and he got me in touch
5:14
with a group that’s within that costume
5:16
and wardrobe styling community and he
5:18
was like here let me get you in touch
5:20
with a girl
5:21
send out your resume and you can
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probably work in this world and so i
5:26
worked as a pa okay what is a pa is that
5:28
a production assistant like yes what was
5:30
that as a production assistant and i
5:32
worked on a very tiny little indie movie
5:35
which was an amazing experience just a
5:38
great crew of people
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and i had my hands on everything and
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then
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the next pa job i had was on the
5:45
marvelous mrs maisel which was like a
5:48
totally different experience going from
5:49
a teeny tiny little show to this massive
5:53
major huge budget production
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and i learned so much there was so much
5:59
that i did not know about that world and
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from there i paid for
6:04
a year and a half or two years
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and i worked on
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maisel the americans i worked on
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quantico
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i pretty much tried to make sure to work
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on a period show
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a cop show a contemporary show and once
6:19
you sort of get all those skills and you
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get a mentor you can be ready to move up
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to the next level
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so you mentioned marvelous mrs nasal
6:28
i had not seen it and i watched a lot of
6:31
episodes this week for research
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and yeah i absolutely loved it i love
6:36
vintage fashion so that was like super
6:38
exciting to me and like the costumes are
6:40
wonderful and
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i mean the show is wonderful it’s won
6:43
dozens of awards like the golden globes
6:46
and one and emmy yeah it’s a very
6:48
brilliant group of people i mean that
6:50
was my first real show business job like
6:53
for real for real you know i would do
6:55
these little non-union commercials and
6:57
then this non-union movie
6:59
and so for that to be like my first show
7:00
coming out of the gate was
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really intense and you know you’re
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working with the best of the best and
7:06
that was just such an advantage and i
7:09
worked on the first season as a pa which
7:11
is just like the bottom person but i
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would bring in all the jewelry every
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morning to background and get it all set
7:17
up and watch the designer go through
7:18
every person and it was such a great
7:20
learning experience and now i’m gonna go
7:22
back for the last season as a wardrobe
7:24
person after trying so many other shows
7:27
and so i’m excited to go back for the
7:29
last season and kind of bookend it
7:31
that’ll be very fun yeah so exciting i
7:34
never bump into any filming in your
7:37
really but the one thing i bumped into i
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know
7:41
the one thing they actually walked by
7:43
while they were filming this marvelous
7:45
mrs mazel and there was all these really
7:47
like beautiful racks always i was like
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oh my gosh look at all these dresses
7:52
oh amazing
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well it sounds like being a pa is a
7:55
really important career step in the film
7:57
and television industry
7:59
can you explain what you did as a pa or
8:01
what you got out of it
8:03
i specifically was always a production
8:05
assistant in the costume design
8:07
department which was great because you
8:09
are just learning everything about your
8:11
field but sometimes you can work as a pa
8:13
in other departments as well which i
8:15
think is equally as great of a learning
8:16
experience for anybody but yeah being a
8:18
production assistant you are
8:20
running errands making the drop-offs a
8:22
lot of times you’ll be just driving the
8:24
designer to set back to the shop doing
8:27
all that stuff you know it’s kind of
8:28
tough but it can also be a really
8:30
valuable experience because you’re
8:32
hearing all the conversations that are
8:34
happening among the bosses of these
8:35
departments and that’s how i viewed it
8:37
and kind of what got me through that
8:39
time because it’s
8:40
not always easy being the bottom and
8:42
it’s a really important part of the
8:44
process too
8:45
because you’re running all the errands
8:47
you’re seeing how it’s all going on and
8:49
seeing all the different vendors and
8:51
other departments within the production
8:53
even though you have to go drop off this
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thing for props or whatever you meet the
8:57
props people you talk to them see what
8:58
their job’s about
9:00
there are many different types of pas
9:02
you can be within the costume department
9:04
you can be a returns pa the designers pa
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and it can mean anything from paperwork
9:10
to driving the designer around non-stop
9:13
to picking up the fabric meeting the
9:15
vendors so
9:16
it’s tough but it is very valuable as
9:19
long as you have a good thought process
9:21
on the whole thing
9:22
so you mentioned that a lot of people
9:24
start their careers out as pas and move
9:27
up from there how did you get from you
9:30
know the bottom of the food chain up to
9:32
where you are now
9:34
at that time i was still sort of
9:35
focusing on trying to do design
9:38
and so within that world the latter you
9:41
kind of climb typically as you go from
9:43
pa to
9:44
a coordinator where you’re in charge of
9:46
the budget and just like managing
9:48
everything of the day-to-day making
9:49
everything that needs to happen happen
9:51
for the designers
9:53
and then from there you work up to a
9:55
shopper and then assistant costume
9:56
designer and designer so i worked as a
9:58
coordinator
10:00
on the report which was a film that’s
10:02
available on amazon it went to sundance
10:04
which was really fun then i went and
10:06
worked on blind spot and after that at
10:09
that point i realized it was a better
10:11
fit for me to move on to the wardrobe
10:14
side as opposed to the design side
10:17
so i started working in wardrobe and i
10:19
made that transition and yeah i’ve been
10:21
doing that ever since
10:23
how did you figure out which would be
10:26
the best fit for you
10:27
there were a few choices why i chose to
10:30
go the wardrobe route as opposed to the
10:32
design route design is really
10:34
challenging and really intense and
10:38
um
10:39
you know wardrobe is it’s a it’s a lot
10:41
easier to get into a groove
10:44
but really the main thing is it’s a lot
10:45
easier for people to have a family when
10:47
you work in wardrobe and that’s
10:49
something that i would like for myself
10:51
and it’s just a lot easier to create
10:53
job share situations or work part-time
10:56
as a wardrobe person versus design you
10:59
like when you’re on a job you are there
11:01
you are there for
11:03
the three months the 12 months whatever
11:05
it is and it is intense and taking time
11:08
off is very very hard and for me and my
11:11
personal life that was what really
11:13
dictated that change and choice for me
11:16
yeah
11:17
i would love for you to explain really
11:19
really simply what a day-to-day would
11:21
look like for you in the costume
11:23
department yeah the biggest thing first
11:25
is the design versus the wardrobe i
11:27
would say design
11:29
they are in charge of like creating the
11:31
look that goes on the body right so they
11:33
pick the fabric or they pick the look
11:35
everything and then wardrobe is in
11:37
charge of the clothes getting the
11:39
clothes prepared to go on the body
11:41
getting them on the body maintaining
11:43
continuity on screen as it’s happening
11:47
setting maintaining whatever the
11:48
designer wants and then getting the
11:50
clothes off the body
11:51
the clothes cleaned and turned around
11:53
and ready and either set aside to be put
11:56
away or to go back again the next day
11:59
and what do you mean by continuity so
12:01
for continuity that would be
12:03
making sure that the jacket is zipped up
12:05
all the way or
12:07
unzipped or
12:08
just any of that so when you work on set
12:12
as a wardrobe person that’s like the
12:14
whole big part of your job as soon as
12:15
like the first take goes
12:17
you have got to maintain whatever the
12:19
look is if the tie is crooked or not you
12:21
know all of these things
12:23
are so important and that’s a huge part
12:25
of that the little details yeah and so
12:28
in wardrobe you can work on set or in
12:30
the shop and so my current job i’m just
12:33
working in the shop right now and so
12:35
that’s just keeping the shop clean
12:36
keeping it all restocked turning around
12:39
any costumes that come back doing all of
12:42
that stuff but when you work on set
12:44
which is what i had been doing over the
12:46
summer on gossip girl it’s sort of
12:48
exciting because you can be on out there
12:50
but then it’s a lot of hurry up and wait
12:52
so working on set it’s really long hours
12:55
you typically start very early at the
12:57
beginning of the week and it gets pushed
12:58
to very late at the end of the week it
13:00
gets very physical
13:02
loading into new places and everything
13:04
so depending on if you’re working on set
13:06
or
13:07
working in the shop they both i think
13:08
have their pros and cons working on set
13:10
is a little more exciting and
13:12
interesting but it’s also tough you said
13:14
that you learned a lot on the show
13:17
i would love to hear what you learned
13:19
in relation to your career but also
13:21
about yourself and your differences it’s
13:23
just an entire world that you’ve never
13:26
known because it was so secretive
13:28
and so once you get into it i was able
13:31
to learn sort of the hierarchy within
13:33
design and wardrobe with the ladders you
13:35
climb within each department because
13:38
costume design and costume wardrobe they
13:40
work in tandem and really design is the
13:42
high ranking but they are two
13:45
departments as one and just learning all
13:47
the responsibilities of the designers
13:49
and the assistant costume designers and
13:51
the shoppers and the coordinator like
13:52
just all of that stuff and
13:55
how the shop worked it was just my first
13:57
real big show and yeah it honestly you
13:59
never stop learning really at the end of
14:02
the day which is
14:03
another great i think token that comes
14:06
from learning differences especially for
14:08
me with my like working memory problems
14:11
i’m always kind of having to potentially
14:12
relearn stuff if i ever lose it for a
14:15
year or two i really kind of
14:17
it’s gone and i have to go back and
14:19
reteach myself stuff and so for me
14:22
something just has to always be sort of
14:24
reinforced and when i was in school
14:26
through a lot of trial and error we kind
14:28
of realized flashcards were the best
14:30
thing for me and learning something and
14:33
just being repetitive about it
14:35
so pretty much what’s great about a show
14:37
is it’s always a little new for everyone
14:39
and it’s just really easy for me to ask
14:42
for clarification i have no shame about
14:45
saying i need you to explain this to me
14:47
please
14:48
sometimes i have to ask a few times and
14:51
i just say like i learn differently and
14:53
i just need to hear it again sorry if
14:55
it’s annoying but if you want it done
14:57
right this is how it has to happen i
14:58
never say oh i always had extended time
15:01
all through college or any of this stuff
15:02
i just say
15:03
my mind’s a little different explain it
15:05
to me again and that’s it another thing
15:07
that i’ve learned
15:08
is when you write stuff down it’s
15:11
another added piece of remembering
15:13
something so whenever we have tasks and
15:15
even from fashion school too there was
15:17
just so much work so checklist just
15:19
became my best friend
15:21
writing something down just for that
15:23
repetitiveness and to look back on it
15:25
yeah that’s pretty much the tools that
15:27
work for me
15:28
so much of these learning differences
15:30
were just really challenging growing up
15:33
and being educated and going all the way
15:35
through to college and so i had to do a
15:38
lot of extra work
15:39
in order to really understand what i was
15:42
learning and doing and i’m gonna have to
15:44
do that when i go back for this last
15:45
season of basil
15:47
i’m gonna have to pretty much take
15:48
myself to school again and go all the
15:50
way back through the 60s the 60s fashion
15:53
the costume all those pieces because i
15:55
haven’t worked in that world
15:57
in a long time and that’s not even the
15:59
world i started and we were in 1958 when
16:01
we started that show and now it’s just a
16:03
completely different period
16:05
challenging because you wish you could
16:06
just remember everything but at the end
16:08
of the day you can’t and really everyone
16:11
is digging their teeth and so much more
16:13
into these worlds that it’s a lot of
16:15
work for everyone so you’re not really
16:16
alone and everyone’s always learning
16:18
these different tidbits of these
16:19
different periods but i just know that
16:21
anytime i’m gonna go into a world that’s
16:23
pretty much not contemporary i have to
16:26
take myself to school a little bit and
16:27
go back through all that stuff that
16:30
makes me appreciate the show so much
16:31
more too it’s like all those little
16:33
details
16:34
so obviously television is a pretty sexy
16:36
feel to a lot of people do you have any
16:39
advice for people who want to break in
16:41
or do you have any cautionary tales
16:45
a huge thing in being successful in the
16:47
world of film and television is hard
16:49
work and that is something that has come
16:52
so much from
16:54
being someone who learns differently
16:56
you have to work so hard
16:59
and find other options and opportunities
17:03
of how to learn and what’s going to work
17:04
and what won’t and there’s so much
17:06
adversity in that
17:08
and it creates a lot of thick skin i
17:10
think which is something you really
17:12
really need in that business it gets
17:14
really intense because there’s a lot of
17:16
stuff happening and it’s a lot of money
17:17
being put on to put the shows on it’s
17:20
like a very high pressure environment so
17:22
you know just doing the best that you
17:24
can do keeping your cool and that’s sort
17:27
of it just such a hard work ethic and
17:29
that’s really what’s going to get you so
17:32
far in the business of film and
17:33
television no matter what focus you’re
17:36
in but for me it was just always through
17:38
clothing because i had focused on
17:40
fashion design and merchandising i knew
17:42
how to build clothes i knew the garment
17:44
district i knew all of these things of
17:46
how to make all that stuff come to life
17:48
so it was something i always dreamed of
17:51
and then just the opportunity presented
17:53
itself and i took it
17:55
that’s so exciting it’s like it was a
17:58
dream but you didn’t think you could
17:59
make it happen so you tried to do
18:00
something else and by trying the other
18:02
thing you ended up in the thing you
18:04
actually really wanted actually no
18:06
that’s that’s exactly what happened
18:08
what are your thoughts about
18:10
how other people with thinking and
18:12
learning differences can find a career
18:14
or job they love it was really funny
18:16
when i graduated college and felt so
18:19
lost because i had just been in this
18:20
very intensive program that i was so
18:23
unhappy in and didn’t feel like the
18:24
right fit and i think
18:26
you just keep putting one foot in front
18:28
of the other doing the best you can and
18:30
taking the opportunities that feel right
18:33
and that opportunity that i took at the
18:35
ad agency felt like the right thing to
18:37
do and then it wound up leading me to my
18:39
dream job which is just crazy to think
18:42
of but i think you just do what you can
18:44
just surround yourself with good people
18:47
which i know is not easy but it is
18:50
possible it happens out there
18:52
and yeah i think just sort of go on this
18:55
journey because so many people i know in
18:57
this business
18:58
did not go to school for this
19:00
the wardrobe world especially it’s a lot
19:02
easier you can go to school for this and
19:04
know all about like the fabrics and the
19:06
history and everything but so many
19:08
people come from styling or didn’t go to
19:10
school at all yeah it’s not always a
19:13
linear path
19:14
you mentioned role models a couple times
19:17
and that’s something that we talk about
19:18
a lot and understood you know the
19:20
importance of having role models
19:22
particularly other people that have
19:23
thinking and learning differences but
19:25
also in the way that you’re talking
19:26
about in the career
19:28
i don’t know if you have more to say
19:29
around what role your role model played
19:33
or how that helped what you learnt
19:36
yeah i think it really helped growing up
19:38
and following this world of
19:40
entertainment just seeing
19:41
stars sort of come forward or be honest
19:44
with learning differences was always
19:45
really helpful and then the people that
19:48
i’ve worked with who have been my role
19:50
models they haven’t necessarily learned
19:51
differently but the whole environment is
19:53
very ripe for adversity and so just
19:56
seeing people overcome the adversity and
19:59
some of the really tough hurdles that
20:01
there are to jump to move up in the
20:03
world
20:04
and just hearing everyone’s different
20:06
stories was just really helpful in
20:08
knowing you’re not alone in this
20:11
struggle of the climb or whatever you’re
20:13
doing and finding allies friends role
20:16
models within that space is huge and i
20:19
was very fortunate to kind of find those
20:20
people along the way which was great
20:22
thanks so much for
20:23
sharing your story thank you so much for
20:25
having me i was it was such a pleasure
20:27
to be here and let the people know that
20:30
just because you think differently it’s
20:32
really an asset at the end of the day
20:34
and you can do anything
20:36
i love it the tools in the toolbox
20:38
[Music]
20:40
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20:44
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20:46
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20:50
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20:53
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more at understood.org
21:35
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21:38
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21:40
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21:50
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production directors thanks again for
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listening
21:56
[Music]
22:14
you
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This post was previously published on YouTube.
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You may also like these posts on The Good Men Project:
White Fragility: Talking to White People About Racism | Escape the “Act Like a Man” Box | Why I Don’t Want to Talk About Race | What We Talk About When We Talk About Men |
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