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Luis. 52. Birthplace: Manhattan, New York. Currently: Brooklyn, New York. Not Religious. Visual Beauty. Photographer.
What does the concept/word “feminism” mean to you? What does the concept of equality mean to you?
I have different feelings about that. I think my definition of feminism has changed. At first I saw it as “man-hating” and that’s literally how I took it. Now I see it more as women being who they are. I’ve been thinking about what it means as a man’s relationship to women. You can’t help but interject yourself into what feminism means as a man; where you stand in the whole thing. It’s hard to be objective and say feminism is this or that and somehow you’re going to fit into the picture.
It’s an odd feeling but I think it’s about men defining themselves in their relationship to women as a mode of measuring or understanding. Equality for sure, I’m totally for people being treated well, honestly, equally, professionally, just in everyday situations. Everyone deserves it as a human right to be treated as a human being. But I don’t want feminism to be like men; I think women should have their own thing, women doing what they want.
What do you think is the most pressing struggle for women today? What is the most crucial aspect in your eyes?
I think the most pressing struggle for women is not knowing who to be. There are role models you’re expected to be and things you want to be. For women I’ve seen age it seems to be a hard part as well: The things they do or don’t do because they’re supposed to, as opposed to things they do because they want to. To be who they are just for the sake of being who they are is where I see the most subtle condition women have to deal with. It’s the most harmful because it bleeds into everything they do, onto every decision they make.
Is feminism a subject you think about? Have you ever read a book or seen a documentary about feminist issues?
No. It always comes up but I don’t often use the word.
Why do you identify as a feminist and how/when did you learn about it? What were you taught about women growing up?
I learned about women from a male standpoint and I was raised mostly by my mother. She always taught us that men do and don’t do certain things and the way we treat women is also a way that we define ourselves as men. You don’t mistreat someone or take advantage of someone – that your value as a man is really a character. She would give us examples of people, she said: “That’s something you should do, you should do the right thing”. And I’ve learned to kind of uphold my values in that sense. I think that’s attractive in men: when they stand up for what they believe in. So my mother was my first segway into feminism, but I’ve always enjoyed women’s company more so than boys’, even as a child. The dialogue was better.
I never liked when boys or people today speak badly of women for no reason except that they are women. I don’t mind you attacking an action someone does but simply attacking someone because they’re a woman is really foolish. I was surrounded by a lot of people talking this way, especially coming of age. To this day, when you get together with men they talk a certain way. It’s a bit repulsive. And women don’t hear what they say behind closed doors – it’s not always horrible, sometimes it’s very beautiful things, but I hear things like name-calling that’s unjust.
I’ll give a quick example: there’s a person I spoke to and it didn’t go his way with a girl. He wanted to go further with this girl and she said no. So he called her a whore. And I laughed at him because isn’t she the opposite of a whore? She didn’t sleep with him, and he’s calling her a whore. It’s these names that I really feel heavy-handed. When something like this comes up I honestly laugh at it, I laugh in their face and say: “Listen to yourself, why are you calling her a whore? Because you didn’t have sex?” It’s stupid – you hate her because she didn’t like you? Are you hurt because she didn’t like you? Those are different feelings, but then say it for what it is. I’d prefer a true attack on something she actually did, but to just name-call is like bullying and she’s not there to defend herself. I don’t think it’s fair. It’s also rude on top of everything else but I’m shocked.
“Bitch” is another word that I hate – these are the kinds of things where my mother always told me not to speak badly about anyone. It’s gossipy. I think about the self-realization that I was part of anti-feminist sentiments – part of the system in a way. For me a lot of it had to do with seeing women as (this is going to sound horrible) but as makers of children. That they simply carry the responsibility of making children and all that. It’s hard to remove the sexual aspect that comes with that. It goes back to this role that people play; that women feel they can or want to or don’t want to play. The idea of: “I have to birth children” seems unfair. I don’t like to feel that way but somehow I did. It’s scientific or biological, not something that I’m that ashamed of, but I would hate to feel that a daughter of mine felt that they had to make children. It seems stupid but the feelings are there. When I was younger you would see it in dating.
I’ve been married and I’ve had children so I got to fulfill that and know what it’s like and it was satisfying for me. But as I’ve grown older, I see women more as people and that sounds horrible. That separation was delineated for me socially growing up and I don’t know how I came about it exactly, but I don’t think there’s anyone that teaches you to think this way. It’s a general consensus that: “Girls like pink and boys like blue. Girls do this and boys do that”, which I always hated because I didn’t always like to do the boyish things. Women often confide in me with stories/dating stuff and I hear horror stories – I’m really surprised that people actually treat people like that. I tell them straight out; no one deserves to be treated that way. But it’s hard for them to stand up for themselves. I think they need more role models. I still feel that women standing up for themselves lack confidence. I see it more in the younger girls now but not in my generation or before. I wouldn’t want that for anyone. For anyone to tell me: “Don’t do this, don’t do that or just put up with it” would be horrible.
Is feminism empowering for men? If so, how? How does feminism differ for you?
I think so. I really think so. There’s nothing manly about subjugating anything or anyone to make yourself feel powerful. You should be powerful in your own. I think there’s bravery in caring and that should be across the board. I taught that to my son: “You have to be good to people and that means everyone.” I want to see the women in my life do well. All of them. The same with the men, I want to see them do well. But I don’t know what I can do about it. Everyone has my support, but you have to search within. I imagine that it’s difficult to dig in for yourself and decide what you want to be and I’m glad to see that now there’s more support especially among women. That’s certainly not going to come readily for men. This is something I tell everybody I meet: “Be who you are. If you say you like this then just do what you like.” I hate when people tell me what to do, I want to have a say in the way I live my life.
Why do you think the word “feminist” is associated with a negative stigma? What do you think it connotes? How do you think it could change?
I’ll just react to your question: Usually it means anger towards men. Initially that’s what I felt the word is. I think with men in a very silly way it feels like: “It doesn’t include me”. If you hear “feminism” as a man, it’s like the word is excluding men and I think that’s part of the problem; it’s simply because they don’t feel they’re a part of it. Man’s worst nightmare is rejection from a woman, something you learn in adolescence. I think that’s the worst part of it: that the sound of the word does not mean “me”. But when you begin to think collectively, it’s because we’re not just a male society.
Most of my life and my career is based on feminist values and beauty – all these kinds of things are inspired by women. The term isn’t scary but I can see why people might see it as scary. I think early on, especially in the 1970’s, it came across as angrier but it had to be to get attention. People would just brush it off, so you had to do something dramatic to get attention and I agree with that and see it more clearly now. But there are things that happen where I always question myself; like when you get in a cab and there’s a female cab driver and I think: “Oh, a female cab driver” – should I be thinking that? It’s almost like policing your thoughts in a way; why did I think that? It surprised me; why did it surprise me? It’s not like women can’t drive, everyone knows women drive, but you start to see that your vantage point is not really yours; it’s given to you by society. I think that women have certain powers or skill sets that men just don’t have.
Feminism would change for the better when women stop measuring themselves with men-yardsticks or by men’s achievements, but rather by achievements they create on their own because I always feel like it’s chasing the male icon: “Look, women can do this too”. I think: “Yes you can, but what would a woman do in that same situation?” I think that there’s room for greatness where I hope women don’t follow in men’s footsteps and just replicate what they do. I’d rather see it more positive like: “I can do it and I can do it my way”. I really think that women could excel in ways that men never could.
What issues/reservations do you have with feminism today? What do you personally think needs change?
In many of my encounters with women, there’s a lot of distrust. I meet women and they assume I’m against them until I give them a reason not to be. Not that I work towards it, if you just talk to people hopefully they’ll come to that conclusion. There’s a certain guardedness to women that’s exhausting to be around. It’s like always being on the lookout for ways to defend yourself.
Doesn’t the world have to change first so women don’t have to feel scared?
I totally agree, it’s a shame. In a more poetic sense, I always thought that women liked being women. Growing up that’s what I thought and it makes me sad to think that maybe that was a false notion – that maybe they didn’t really like being girls. It changes what I thought women were like and it’s kind of sad – the idea that: “We’re not happy being the women we are”. I think that’s the side we need to address. It’s still unclear because so few people actually manage to break away and be free from the constraints, but I think we’re going to start to see actual role models. Even in the media now we’re starting to get really good female role models that gain respect just by being who they are.
Do you think there was something different about growing up in Manhattan? Do you think maybe it was more worldly or accepting to grow up here than somewhere outside of a major city?
Totally. Easily. Culturally and racially we had a huge mix of people and every kind of race was in my class. People were open to different things so we were taught more (at least during that time) to be open to the world; a very optimistic feeling. We weren’t well-to-do by any means but Columbus Avenue was next to Central Park West so there was affluence, there was Harlem uptown, there was a range of social classes. It was a happy time because if you brought who you were and you were sincere, people accepted you – your social class didn’t save you, you’d really have to come forth with being who you truly are.
There were certain things girls didn’t like to do (“Oh that’s boy stuff”), and they’d make fun of us and we’d laugh. I always felt that girls have their way of chatting that excluded boys and I always admired it because it was a comradeship that boys didn’t have. Men would just punch each other in the arm and there’s not much depth to it so I really admired the women and thought they were enjoying themselves. I guess it’s not until you get to adult issues beyond school where the workplace starts, family life, all the other real world adult issues come up and you start to actually see the differences. It’s very different from the playground. Boys aren’t taught to feel, so how do you expect them to be sensitive?
I think about five years ago there was a point where feminism became more real for me. I started coming across it more. It was that comedian who does Sarah Palin – Tina Fey, she said something like: “Men find feminism uncomfortable, deal with it”. I don’t know the exact words but it was something like that. And I started asking myself: It does make me uncomfortable, what is it that makes me uncomfortable? It goes back to what I said about: How do I fit into all of this? My relationship to women; what does that mean? Where do I stand? At first it’s like a threat, but what is there to lose? It’s silly. It’s just programming. You start to realize: “I have certain notions that I need to change” and they’re super subtle, I didn’t like them. I didn’t like to think that I had the wrong view but if you just meditate on it, these things are somewhat fucked up: To not let people be who they are. For the me that’s the key aspect.
I hope people don’t take feminism as being something negative. I like to think of it as positive, I don’t like to see it as I initially did where it’s hateful and angry. I think that can only get you so far. Hopefully I’m not romanticizing it too much, but I think of it more as a glow to let yourself emanate without restrictions. You decide what it is you want to do. In the scope of being a girl or a woman: What does that mean to you? What do you want to do? I like to think that feminism is just that: positive feeling. Honestly, I feel good about women, I know that women feel good about themselves also, and I hope the ones that don’t will eventually. I also think waiting for men’s approval is stupid. That’s not the point.
The whole point is for women to not exclude men, but maybe leave them out of the equation for now. Finding your own way will eventually let men and women cross paths. I’m really happy when I see all of these groups that support each other. I always say this: Women have been the glue of the earth forever. They really are what holds the world together in a sense, just through connectivity. In my heart and my mind, there’s a softness to women that I hope will always be there in a different way that men usually can’t be. It’s certainly a romanticized way of seeing it, but it’s my feeling towards women. By softness I don’t mean weakness, I mean a delicacy in emotion, in empathy and in caring. Across the board men can also be that way – pumping iron isn’t strong it’s just pumping iron. Men would do better if they saw different ways to be strong but then again it’s hard to get good role models for men also. It could be better. I always wanted a daughter but it didn’t happen. I think about it all the time; if I had a daughter what would I tell my daughter? Probably just what I told my son: “Be who you are. That’s all.”
Is there anything else you’d like to add? Are there any other questions you think I should be asking?
I think I could get more excited about feminism. It makes me sad more than anything because it’s like an uncertainty in being: How can you be uncertain at birth just because of your gender? I don’t like that idea. I don’t like it at all, it makes me sad.
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Photo credit: Deryne Keretic
I’ve asked this countless times. Give me 3 examples where the feminist movement has intentionally campaigned for the rights of men/fathers/boys?
Tom, I would say the answer would be here, on GMP. Many of the individuals on the team identify as a feminist and all are working for the rights of men/fathers/boys.
That didn’t answer my request. As a movement, as a whole is what I wanted to know. I do appreciate GMP’s occasional efforts nonetheless.
I understand. I am (in my little spare time) writing a piece on this subject, so I pay attention to your comments in preparation. Thanks for being a regular reader and member of this community, Tom.