Most men have not had many of the discussions I share in this book, and the chance of passing on wisdom from one man to the next is continually missed.
— Mike Povenz
My interview guest today is Mike Povenz, author of the new book Iron and Cotton: A man‘s field guide to marriage.
From his website: “Mike Povenz has a passion for helping men discover the best version of themselves and for guiding them to be better husbands and fathers. He is the founder of Modern Chivalry Men, an organization inspiring men to positive change and community involvement. He is also the host of the Iron and Cotton podcast. Mike has served for years as a men’s group leader and is the recipient of the Life Changer Award. He lives in North Georgia with his beloved wife of 20 years. They are the proud parents of three children: Lily, Lachlan, and Breckyn, along with 3 dogs, 2 guinea pigs, 4 chickens, and 1 psychotic fish. Mike loves the outdoors, fishing, boating, skiing, cooking on cast iron, and time with family and friends.”
Lisa M. Blacker for The Good Men Project: Welcome, Mike.
Mike Povenz: Hello, thank you for this opportunity and for all that you do to inspire men to be the best version of themselves.
LMB: Mike, in preparing for this interview, I watched several of your YouTube videos from a few years ago wherein you talk about redefining what manhood means to you, including courage, loyalty, and leadership. Tell our readers how you started your journey of introspective self-examination related.
LMB: One of the points I appreciate in your new book, Iron and Cotton, is acknowledging that we can’t make assumptions about how our relationship will be if we don’t first discuss the important matters. Share with our readers your beliefs and guidance about compatibility and compromise for healthy couples.
MP: I’m 20 years into marriage, and I have learned more about my wife in the last five years than I did the fifteen years prior. Not only have we both changed and evolved, but I did not dig deep to understand some of the core beliefs my wife has and where they came from. In my book, I hope to help couples identify each others five core beliefs. Beliefs typically formed before a couple begins dating, and that is foundational to who they are. Understanding these beliefs and finding patience and compromise can be the key to a loving and lasting marriage.
LMB: One of the foundational points you present is communication within the marriage. When and how did you discover that being honest with yourself, both your thoughts and feelings, was essential in order to have effective communication in your primary relationship?
MP: I would probably give credit partly to the book Emotional Intelligence 2.0 by Travis Bradberry and Jean Greaves, which taught me to dig a bit deeper into what I was feeling in any given moment and challenged me to dig deeper into that feeling. These moments of pause, and honesty with my emotions, helped me with many of my responses that were very knee-jerk in the past. Add to that Dr. Brene’ Brown’s teachings and how to better communicate how I am feeling to my wife, and I have been forever changed. This change has led to far better communication with my wife and quicker resolution to some very heated topics. This self-awareness helped me disrupt some of my patterns of communication. We all have defined habits in our communication. Some are not so great, and others are perfect for making your wife feel heard. For me, I have continually been an impatient listener. I have a habit of interrupting my wife by finishing her sentences or offering an answer before she finishes her story. This is another area of self-improvement I discovered on my personal journey. It’s also an area I am finding many men struggle with as well.
LMB: You’ve been married to your wife for 20 years, so why and for whom did you write the book?
MP: My wife and I are both children of divorce. We have seen the challenges and pains it can create. We have also walked along the sides of friends going through this devastating experience. I could not help but wonder if my children would one day experience this. So, I wrote this book for them. I plan to hand this book to my son one day when he is ready to read it. I also plan to make it required reading for any young man who wants to marry my daughters. I discovered in my research that most men have not had many of the discussions I share in this book, and the chance of passing on wisdom from one man to the next is continually missed.
LMB: You talk about friendships and other influencers outside of the marriage. How can a man know early enough if an outside influence is going to support or undermine a couple?
MP: This one can get tricky because many of these influences are clouded by how much fun we are having. New friends that make us laugh can also be new friends that get us drinking more than usual and tee up regretful arguments. Outside influences and comparisons can get us to spend money we don’t have, but we love what we purchased and how it made us feel about ourselves. The trick here is continual assessment and recognition that things are, in fact, influencing your relationship. I discuss influences like friends, parents, social media, and substances in my book and give you some idea on how to manage. Taking a pause often and assessing how those influences are impacting your relationship could save your marriage.
LMB: What advice do you have for a couple who did not have the important discussions in advance of getting married?
MP: It’s not too late, and it can be great content for date nights to further your connection. So much can still be learned about your partner, but you have to be bold enough to ask questions. You also have to be courageous and open, and honest with your answers. Connections grow when you allow a little bit of vulnerability in and respond well to her vulnerability. It can be scary, but it can lead to an incredible connection and is worth the risk.
LMB: In your experience, what are the topics most couples don’t discuss adequately before committing to marriage? Why do you think this is the case?
MP: It’s pretty consistent that money and intimacy are at the top of the list. Money conversations can get complicated and feel invasive. The reason for this is that we each have our own history with money. It’s not just black and white looking at what you make vs. what you owe. It’s far more complicated. A ton of emotion, pride, and habits tied to money can lead to conflict. In my chapter on money, I take a different approach on how to handle this. There are numerous books on how to manage your money, and I encourage you to review them. I, however, want to help couples manage their relationship while dealing with money. To do that, you have to learn about each other’s financial past and what drives the habits and emotions tied to money. The second topic least discussed is sex and intimacy, and mainly because it can be so awkward. However, what’s more awkward, discussing each other’s needs and wants or discussions around separation, divorce, or infidelity? This area of connecting evolves in relationships over time, and discussions are needed to remain close. My encouragement and guidance in Iron and Cotton is to have these conversations periodically, so you don’t find yourself in a loveless and sexless marriage.
LMB: We bring assumptions into our relationship based on our previous exposure to other relationships, including those of our parents and grandparents. How can we be aware of those early influences so we can make a conscious decision rather than perpetuating patterns that may not work for our relationship with our partner?
MP: This was one area of study that became very eye-opening for me as I dived into others’ perceived normals in relationships and marriage. Most of us had a very limited view growing up of what a relationship and marriage should look like. Our normals were defined at a young age, and expectations were unconsciously set. Add to the limited view into relationships some unrealistic relationships from tv, movies, and social media, and we often find ourselves disappointed or frustrated. This is another excellent area of discovery and a place to challenge yourself to be curious. Asking your wife or future bride what she saw growing up could open the door to so much understanding. You sharing what you experienced and saw may help her to see you in a different light. Together you can then seek new normals to demonstrate and inspire your kids to have a loving and fruitful marriage.
LMB: What’s next for you after this book release?
MP: I plan to spend this year building out the platform for Iron and Cotton. This will include my social media pages and a podcast that I hope to launch in the coming months. Outside of that, I have already started two more books that will tackle two other key areas of a man’s life. I believe two more critical conversations are not occurring among men, and I want to bring those to light. I hope to release my second book in about a year.
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This content is brought to you by Mike Povenz.
Click for more information on Mike and his book, Iron and Cotton: A man‘s field guide to marriage
Follow Mike Povenz on social media:
@ironandcotton for Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter
@Mikepovenz for Facebook and Instagram
@mondernchivalryen for Facebook and Instagram
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You may also like:
A Man’s Field Guide to Marriage
Timothy Wenger interviews Mike Povenz about his new book, “Iron and Cotton.”
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This post is republished on Agents of Change, in the Medium publication “Hello, Love”.
