Have you ever had this conversation? It’s not really about the sex…is it?
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Bill and Sarah were at it again.
Over the last 15 years it seemed this conversation had no end. But that didn’t stop Bill from trying.
Bill: “We can’t just keep going on like this!”
Sarah: “Like what?”
Bill: “Once again you’re not in the mood for sex and I get rejected. I want to talk about it and you don’t. We never reach any resolution to this. And your indifference is pissing me off.”
Sarah: “I’m not indifferent. It’s just not the only thing I think about like it is for you.”
Bill: “It’s NOT all I think about, but it’s important to me to have an intimate connection with my wife.”
Sarah: “Oh, whenever you want to have sex you call it an “intimate connection” so I appear to be the cold-hearted witch. This is why I don’t want to talk about it. You make me feel horrible when we talk about it.”
Bill: “All I’m saying is that a healthy sex life is normal and we’re NOT normal and I don’t know how much longer I can deal with it. I can’t see me doing this for another 15 years.”
Sarah: “There’s a lot of other stuff in our marriage that isn’t normal either, you know.”
Bill: “Like what?”
Sarah: “Like the way you treat me, talk to me and criticize me. Is sex so important to you that you would leave me and our kids?!”
Bill: “No, yes, I mean I don’t know… argh…what kind of question is that? Who said anything about leaving?”
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This is the same conversation Bill and Sarah have about every 6 months. It’s always the same. Bill tries his same logical approach to solving the sex problem and Sarah ends the conversation by challenging his dedication to his family.
It sounds like they aren’t even close to being on the same page in this discussion.
Actually, they are always on exactly the same page. Both are suffering from the same thing and it’s killing them and their marriage.
More than anything else, Bill and Sarah want to feel valued, respected, appreciated and truly loved. They both want to feel a sense of certainty in their marriage.
They just don’t know they are on the same page because their individual needs for feeling those things look very different. And because they appear so starkly different to each other their only option is to place blame and sulk away in resentment – for another 6 months.
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Why it’s Not About the Sex
Bill and Sarah’s relationship had a very steamy beginning 15 years ago.
Sex was the familiar, easy road to feeling valued, respected, appreciated and loved. Until it wasn’t any longer.
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With a strong physical attraction and desire for each other, their first year together was full of the kind of sexual intimacy that kept their cups running over. They didn’t spend much time developing deeper emotional, intellectual or spiritual connections. In fact, those were uncomfortable, scary places to be avoided at all costs. They preferred to keep things light and fun.
Sex was the familiar, easy road to feeling valued, respected, appreciated and loved.
Until it wasn’t any longer.
Not long into their marriage they both started to feel empty and disconnected. Sarah wanted to feel the spark of attraction, aliveness and trust she felt in the beginning. Bill wanted to feel her unconditional desire, admiration and respect he thought would never fade.
As the intensity of their early attraction waned so did their ability to be light and fun with each other. Feeling happy and in love was supposed to be easy and it was getting harder. They both started to question if they ever really loved each other.
They judged the depth of their love by their individual feelings of “happiness”. They took no responsibility for creating love because they knew little about HOW to love. And the little they did know was way too risky – way too scary.
So without any other tools to dig deeper, they just stood their ground not knowing how to give what the other needed.
Sarah wanted to be treated better.
Bill wanted more sex.
In 6 months, they’ll have another conversation. The same conversation.
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Are You Avoiding the Deep End?
The “deep end” is all about deciding to learn how to love one another.
They both need to switch their focus from feeling happy and in love to creating happiness and creating love.
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It’s about Bill and Sarah trading in their “How happy am I?” measuring sticks for one that measures how well they are creating love. They have to want to learn how to love more than they want the other to make them happy. They must consciously decide to change their measuring stick!
Why?
Because a person who is stuck in the “How happy am I?” mode of measurement is blinded by their self-interests. They are giving up responsibility for their own happiness. And when they give up that responsibility, they also give up their power to think, say and do anything that will create feelings of love in their partner.
This is the challenge for Bill and Sarah.
They both need to switch their focus from feeling happy and in love to creating happiness and creating love.
Bill will need to go into the scary place of discovering what emotional intimacy and safety means for Sarah. He will have to WANT to become a man and husband who learns how Sarah’s needs for attraction and trust are met. Then he will need to turn his knowledge into action.
Sarah will need to face her fear of being more vulnerable and comfortable in creating sexual polarity. She will have to WANT to become a woman and wife who learns how Bill’s needs for admiration and desire are filled in many ways beyond sex. Then she will need to step into her fear and take action.
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Bill and Sarah’s unproductive, semi-annual conversations need to be replaced by something much deeper. They need to discover the joy and confidence in becoming partners who want to create love with each other. Then they will find where happiness, trust, respect and good sex really come from.
♦◊♦
I wrote an e-book for men who are tired of walking on eggshells and want the confidence to create something new in their relationship. Get your free copy of the Hard-to-Swallow Secret About Saving Your Marriage by clicking HERE.
Photo Molly/flickr
First, how do you go about creating a discussion about something your partner really, really doesn’t want to take about? I know I tried in my relationships, but the only thing I got in return was sweeping statements that “women just don’t have the same sexdrive that men have, and there’s nothing you can do about that!” End of discussion. Any advice from the ladies here? Second. The retort from the question in the title would be: – If sex is so utterly unimportant and of no significance whatsoever to you, then why would you take the kids and leave… Read more »
Also, ain’t it kind of funny how a subject brought up to discussion maybe once a month, or like in the article once every 6 months, so quickly gets dismissed as “the only thing you think about”…?
This is a very emotional discussion to have with one’s partner. It can get into blame and shame really fast. Thats a road you don’t want to ho down. What this is teally all about is expressing your concerns in an open way and seeing if yhere is a solution. Lets say i want intercourse. Wife has physical issues eben with lubricants so its not a thing she desires. She needs to tell me that as we work toward a solution. Reverse the gender makes no fifference. We simply have to get it out of our heads what “common knowledge”… Read more »
Steve – great article – awesome response. I always learn something from you.
You said to Amber: “For women, my article challenges them to dive into things they don’t know about men, vulnerability and creating sexual polarity.” I personally find this extremely helpful as a woman and see how you do this in your writing.
Yeah and I think it would be really helpful if guys were able to speak up about those things without fear (or at least be prepared to face the fear) of rejection and attack for feeling much less talking about such vulnerability.
Yes, it would be helpful if we could all speak about the things we care about without fear of being attacked. But you can’t wait for that to happen to say what you want to say. I’m regularly attacked here but I speak about the things I care about because I think it’s important. And I know you do that too Danny.
That would be nice Erin. However, this website often deletes my posts.
Then find a way to express what you need to express without it getting your posts deleted. I’ve had some of my posts deleted too J. Sometimes you just got to tweek your response. Sometimes when GMP deletes your posts, it gives you better practice at more effectively communicating anyway. Because there are certainly times when my feelings got the best of me here.
Thanks, Erin, it’s sweet of you to post such a supportive comment.
A reading reference I recommend for women who are doing the type of work you are is “Powerful and Feminine” by Rachael Jayne Groover. Her chapter on the “5 Mistakes Women Make in the Relationships With Men” make my male clients nod in agreement. One of her points is about how to “intentionally create sexual polarity” with your man.
Have a great day!
I’ll be ordering that from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation!
Funny, isn’t it, that we have yet another double standard over the sexless marriage. Wife no longer wants to sleep with man, man complains = male entitlement, disgusting pig. she doesn’t deserve you. Husband no longer wants to sleep with wife, wife complains = Oh you poor thing, that must be so difficult. Leave him, he doesn’t deserve you. Whether certain prudes here like it or not, sex is an important part of a relationship. If one person isn’t getting out a relationship what they want, then that person suffers. I’ve been in the sexless marriage, a wife who refused… Read more »
Seems they’ve completely lost their way, lost touch, become an island unto themselves negotiating treaties for good and services. I just now wrote my definition of love in another post: The act of caring for another more then one cares about themselves. At some point someone has to extend an olive branch, and it seems that neither have. I don’t know much, but I do know that if a woman is feeling unappreciated, put upon, ignored, or alone, her sex drive goes down with her self-esteem. A husband that understands that can work through that issue. I know, I’ve done… Read more »
After reading the various responses, I’m gonna go back to what I said earlier about “sex” v “making love.” Let’s take the extreme example and look at a couple where one of them is either a paraplegic or quadriplegic. I guess their marriage is doomed because for obvious reasons, sex is pretty much done with. Sex equal intercourse. Yes, I know there are alternatives for the quadriplegic but in any event, one of them is not going to be sexually stimulated. What they do have though is the ability to love in many different ways. Maybe it’s because my wife… Read more »
You haven’t actually offered any solutions, you’ve mentioned “creating love” but haven’t defined that. You’ve mentioned that the discussion the couple has is essentially pointless, but you’ve still given no actual guidelines or even useful alternative discussions. Barely touched on the fact that people want love, respect, and appreciation. Played into the trope that women need those to give sex, and men need sex to feel those. This would have been a good opportunity to discuss love languages, or many of the other similar concepts that actually show how to communicate these things and get back on track for a… Read more »
Yes, Amber, you are correct. It was simply an introduction to the topic and an invitation to men to learn more about it by downloading my free ebook. It’s not my goal to write an exhaustive article each week, but to spark curiosity that might inspire a very specific niche of men to choose introspection and personal growth. For women, my article challenges them to dive into things they don’t know about men, vulnerability and creating sexual polarity. Here is a YouTube video I made that went with this article to those who subscribe to my weekly newsletter and video.… Read more »
Hi K and Silke, Men chasing their wives for sex is hardly a myth in any generation. And I well aware of women who want sex more than their men. My conclusion applies in both cases. Feelings of connection, trust, attraction, desire, and significance come from a deeper level than just sex (as Tom pointed out wonderfully). My goal is to help “unhappy” men and women learn to CREATE those feelings using their personal power to love each other in specific ways that matter to their partner. Good sex normally follows. Each time we choose to blame our partner for… Read more »
“Each time we choose to blame our partner for our lack of feeling loved we will suck at doing anything to help THEM feel loved.” I just do not understand how you can make such a blanket statement like this. I really do not. All this suggest is that it is the other person who is at fault. Obviously, this is bullshit. It is like saying a woman deserved to be raped because she was wearing a mini skirt. You’re blaming the victim so to speak. You have to place blame where it exist!!! Stress, cultural messages, emotional connection, chemical… Read more »
Hey Jules, My very simple point is about mindset – that when any human being is wracked with feeling like a victim, they will find it extremely hard to make a proactive choice to do something positive in the relationship. IMO, that is the beginning of every unrecoverable downward spiral in a relationship. We don’t have to choose victim-hood and we can take actions to create love and inspire our partners to join us at the level we want to play. If we don’t make that choice then the outcome is clear. I agree, we can’t “make” our partners do… Read more »
@ Steve Horsmon, “We don’t have to choose victim-hood and we can take actions to create love and inspire our partners to join us at the level we want to play.” I hear your perspective on this Steve. I guess it really boils down to whether the man (or women) wishes to re-engage their partners in an attempt to create the love and inspire them to join us in making things better for both of us.. Such goes counter to human nature I think. When one is aggrieved and victimized, it is very difficult to want to engage the person… Read more »
Hi Steve You say ” Men chasing the wife for sex is hardly a myth”. I agree and my comment could easily be understood as a critique of your article here. That was not my intent. I like you, the way you work and how you help men. In fact I like you a lot. And I am not qualified to tell the real truth about what actually happens sexually between husband and wife in committed relationships . But I suspect that we do not see the whole picture. I suspect that men speak up here in Good Men Project… Read more »
@ Silke, Hi Silke!!! What a beautiful comment….You really do challenge people to think Silke. I love that you ask questions. It tells me you are seeking knowledge. “Still I ask you and others ” where are the stories about the couples where the man is not chasing his partner for sex?”. Maybe we never hear their story because they feel this is not a problem for them, the women they live with or the the relationship . I am simply curious .” This is a very very good topic indeed…A few years ago when I turned 50, my doctor… Read more »
“The book I refernced abouve is very good on this issue…”
Sorry for typos…
Should read,
The book I referenced above is very good on this issue…..
Hi Steve
I agree with K . Lets not spread myths .
So maybe your next article about this issue will be about the couple where the man no longer wants frequent sex or actually no longer want sex with his wife at all.
Hi Silke,
What is the myth?
Is it possible in your universe that both types of people exist, or does one type always have to out-rule another?
And if so, wouldn’t the article you’re asking for, also be spreading myths?
I have many girlfriends ages35-45 and all report the opposite reality. . Men at these ages are not into sex. They would rather watch tv play video games work in the yard. This article is written backwards. Al of my girlfriends complain about the lack of sex drive in men ages 35-45. Good luck spreading the stereotypes though . It may have been true for older generation of women but doesn’t hold much water anymore
@ K, “Al of my girlfriends complain about the lack of sex drive in men ages 35-45.” ALL…Seriously. Maybe something else is at work? Every single study I have seen on this issue (and I mean every one) clearly show that men want sex and the women do not. Yes, there are marriages where the reverse is the case. In fact, there is a book that tackles this very issue, Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It by Bob Berkowitz (Author), Susan Yager-Berkowitz (Author) The idea that women in… Read more »
Hi Jules
Thanks for giving us tips about litterature to read :).
Loss of libido in women is a real thing that results from changing hormones due to childbirth/breastfeeding, normal aging, perimenopause or menopause. I can tell you from experience that since reaching menopause, it is very hard to get aroused and if I can’t get aroused, sex feels awful. Unfortunately there is no medical solution to this problem and all the communication and foreplay and sex toys in the world will not help if the problem is that physically, sexual contact is unpleasant or downright painful. I don’t really know what the solution is other than having an open relationship or… Read more »
@ Mattie,
“I used to have a very high sex drive but now I feel like I’d be fine never having sex again, which is a weird experience but that is apparently where my body is at now.”
That is OK for YOU. However, if you are in a marriage or relationship it should be about US..
Btw, how do you explain women in their 30s who are married not wanting to have sex with their husbands?
I want to have sex and we are still having sex, but it’s not pleasurable for me anymore. I’m doing it for the sake of our relationship but really it feels like I’m just servicing my husband. He can tell and it makes him sad. Women in their 30’s can begin having hormonal changes known as perimenopause. This can affect the sex drive. It’s not always about women being wilfully withholding of sex as part of some manipulative head game. Sex may feel unpleasant or painful to her, or she just can’t get into it for reasons that aren’t her… Read more »
So women with hormonal or physical problems making sex unpleasant at best or painful at worst are just supposed to grin and bear it, for the sake of US? And it’s supposed to be passionate? Or can a woman in pain just grimace through the experience with the man she loves?
It’s not sex itself, it’s what sex means for both genders. To men, sex is the only way to show and receive love because men are raised to be stoic or angry or horny…nothing else.
Women , OTOH, have been raised to believe that there are disposable women that men have sex with and chaste wives/mothers too holy for something as “degrading” as sex.
What could go well with that?
Interesting viewpoint, Cynthia. Thanks for commenting.
Yes, we all come with baggage to life and love. I believe we all have a choice to change if we WANT to.
And if we choose not to, what could go well with that?
Steve part of that baggage is how society unfairly portrays men in stereotypical ways. My parents were married for decades and although I have no idea what they did behind closed bedroom doors, I saw my dad’s immense love toward my mom. Making and showing love comes in countless ways shapes and colors. I’m so thankful that I had my dad (who would have turned 97 last month) show me what it meant to be a man, a husband and a dad. I will not, in any way co-sign what Cynthia said because I’ve lived over 60 years where I… Read more »
Cynthia, you said “To men, sex is the only way to show and receive love because men are raised to be stoic or angry or horny…nothing else” I could not disagree with you more. What you’re stating is a stereotype that minimized who men really are. In the 40+ years I’ve been married, I have yet to have had “sex” with my wife BUT countless times where we’ve made love. I’d also like to point out that “making love doesn’t always include intercource. My earlier response where I addressed “sex” was sarcasm. No, men are not raised that way, mainstream… Read more »
As a man I disagree with your sterotypes about men.
Why must the choice be “sex or marriage”? The way Hypothetical Wife frames it, the title of the article could just as easily be “Is taking care of your husband so terrible that you can’t endure it once in a while, to save your marriage?” Also, why would the guy have to leave his kids? Leave them out of it. I don’t understand how the wife in this story thinks she can have such little respect for her man, expect him to just suffer endlessly and he’s not going to leave her? Even if she believed that a judge would… Read more »
Sex is an important part of a healthy relationship. I suggest they get a divorce and move on. She should see a doctor.
What do you expect when at every turn “sex” is the focal point of peoples lives and equates to “happiness.” Truth is that it’s common knowledge that it’s most important that couples be sexually compatible over anything else.