James Landrith discusses life as a male survivor and recounts his experience of rape at the hands of a woman.
As a vocal male survivor, when I’m not talking about sexual violence in writing or before audiences, I’m reading about it in many contexts and sources. A great deal of what I see on a daily basis is directed at men with the assumption that we know nothing about sexual violence or have no experiences that parallel those of female survivors.
Those making such arguments are often NOT sexual violence survivors themselves. Encountering such memes can be quite painful when you are a rape survivor yourself. The problem is not that female survivors receive the majority of the attention when sexual violence is discussed. The problem is that when sexual violence is discussed with regard to male survivors, there is often resistance, condescension, and outright mockery by people who quite often have not experienced such violence themselves. For those who have lived through abuse at the hands of women, that can be doubly wounding.
I’ve lived through sexual violence. I have my own story and my own experiences. I have my own triggers and my own issues. I don’t need to be educated. I don’t need to be taught what to do or not do. I don’t need any proven statistical bias to legitimize my life or my experiences. I lived it.
♦◊♦
Background
Approximately twenty years ago I met a friend at a club in Jacksonville, North Carolina. He came with a female friend. During the night, he disappeared leaving his friend by herself and without a ride. As she was pregnant and without a ride, I agreed to take her home when I left. She had not been out in a while and wanted to stay until the club closed that night. While she was not drinking, she bought me a few thank you drinks for agreeing to drive her home.
After a few drinks, I became very tired and disoriented. I never drank until I got drunk, especially when driving and off base. I didn’t like the feeling and it wasn’t secure off base. I just figured I was tired and had too much without realizing it. There was a motel next to the club. She suggested we get a room and sleep it off, then I could drive her home in the morning. I agreed as I was rapidly losing the ability to think or see straight. She got us a room with double beds and we split the cost.
I vaguely remember laying down with my clothes still on. I probably took off my t-shirt per the norm, but I left my pants on. I did not feel comfortable taking my pants off around this strange woman. She warned me that she did not want to have sex and I remember saying that I was seeing someone and was not at all interested in that either. I laid down on my side of the room and was out almost immediately.
At some point in the night, I awoke to find her on top of me. I said something I cannot remember and she coaxed me back to sleep. I doubt very much that she could even understand what I was saying, given how disoriented I felt at that time.
The next morning, after the sun had risen, I woke again feeling confused and unsure of where I was or what had transpired since getting off work on Friday afternoon. My pants were nowhere to be seen, my underwear also missing and my penis was erect. I realized that she was on top of me, grinding and moaning. I didn’t know what to think. I wasn’t fucking her. I didn’t want to fuck her. Who was she again? I moved as my legs were stiff and sore from being in the same position for hours with her on top of me.
She darted her eyes at me and told me not to move. I was ordered “don’t be forceful.” She then asked if I was trying to rape her when I could not remain perfectly still and again told me not to move. In addition, I was told that I could hurt the baby if I tried to stop it. After she finally finished, I was still expected to drive her home.
In short, I was drugged, raped, threatened and had a baby used against me as a human shield. To say that experience left me messed up would be an understatement.
Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I was under 21, drinking illegally in a club, while on active duty with a local, pregnant civilian. Why didn’t I report it? Read this paragraph again and think about it harder if it eludes your grasp.
♦◊♦
The Reaction
How did I react? I buried it deep and pretended it didn’t happen, which is a common reaction for male survivors. That did not mean that it had no effect on me. I simply pretended it didn’t happen. I called it a bad night and said she was a little twisted.
As one therapist would later tell me, denial of trauma does not mean it isn’t affecting you. I believe she said that if unacknowledged, the effects would “come out sideways” and in a manner that may not be easily identifiable. For me, that was a sudden and ridiculous promiscuity that did not exist before the rape. I began to act out sexually by sleeping with any woman who offered. I turned down no one, to include several much older, married women. I did not seek out sex, I simply said yes every time.
To say that I was reckless then would be accurate. I was risking exposure to disease and potential violence from angry husbands and boyfriends. I did this for about three years before getting married and further stuffing the memories down further. Further, I lost nearly all trust in women – especially aggressive and loud women.
Nearly twenty years later, I decided to confront it. The time had come to do something about it. I sought out assistance and began to see a therapist. I spent a lot of time on me, thinking, analyzing and progressing. It was painful, but necessary work. I’m not done with it. I don’t know that I’ll ever be truly done.
While in therapy, it was as if the bandage had been ripped off suddenly and the wounds were newly raw. I had panic attacks, crying fits, sudden anger and loss of time. I felt exposed all the time, everywhere.
I had trouble being alone with a woman in a confined space like an office or elevator. Some days, I didn’t even want to stand next to a woman in line for a cup of coffee. Remember the controversy in the feminist blogosphere over strange men talking to women in an elevator? Reverse the sexes and I lived it. For me, the issue wasn’t hypothetical or used to demonstrate which gender has it worse with regard to potential sexual violence. It was based on an actual trauma response. The back and forth over why men should expect to be viewed as rapists by women in elevators took on a whole new level of offensive when viewed through the lens of my own experience.
I felt guilty all the time. I still feel guilty quite often. I feel guilty because I don’t trust women I don’t know. I feel guilty because I sometimes view women, particularly loud and aggressive white women, as potential threats to my well-being and mental health. I feel guilty because for a long time, I couldn’t look at a pregnant woman without seeing that sick woman from so many years ago.
I still struggle with some of these issues today, but not as often and not always in such intensity as before. Presently, I have returned to my prior human resources career. This field is dominated by women and has proved a big test for me.
The biggest test is sometimes just getting through the day without losing it. Some days I pass without issue, on other days I just have to give myself a hall pass so I can get on with my life.
—Photo Unlikely Ghost/Flickr
NOTE: Lina’s victim-shaming and trivializing comments have been removed. This is not a forum for attacking survivors of sexual violence and writers who are sharing their stories.
Wow. This is dismissive as all get out. Last time I checked rape is forcing someone to have sex against their will. He didnt want to have sex so therefore its rape.
Trying to call it sexual assault is an attempt at reducing the seriousness of it.
Clearly you are an arrogant rape apologist who has internalized rape culture to the point where you feel ENTITLED and PRIVILEGED to dictate to a male survivor that YOU get to decide what they EXPERIENCED. Do you fail to see that as DISGUSTING behavior on your part? I live in the U.S., where the laws differ from the U.K. (where I assume you reside based on your grammar) and are decided from state to state, not nationally. Further, most rape crisis centers in the U.S. AND the U.K. consider my experience rape, regardless of state or national laws. Reality exists… Read more »
That’s so terrible! I’m really sorry that happened to you. I’m sorry a woman did that to you & while I wasn’t the one who did it I’m really sorry that we as women have ever done anything to hurt you or make you feel unsafe. I really hope that your journey to full healing is as swift & gentle on your heart as might ever be possible in such a circumstance.
You as women, the whole group, did nothing it was a woman, singular, that did it so don’t worry. Just like when a man, singular, rapes a woman it doesn’t mean that men, the whole group, did anything to her.
Some of the comments here are very appalling. In particular, there are some replies that actually treat James with unqualified contempt, simply on the basis of his gender, in order to make the point that rape is far worse when it happens to females. I have no argument with the facts that men perpetuate rape more often, or that women are victimized more often, or even that the physical harm done to women tends to be far worse–crime statistics bear out ALL of those. But that’s not where the hostile commenters left the argument. No, for some reason they thought… Read more »
“It is true that most rapists are male.”
Given that until very recently (and still in many places of the world) in order for something to be considered “rape” it had to be sexual assault using a penis, and that in still more places it only counts as rape when the victim is penetrated (not, say, enveloped) How can you actually be sure this is the case?
Though it is unfortunate that you went through something so traumatically disgusting, it wasn’t life threatening as it is when it’s men against women. Overall, men are far more violent (for example, war is not a product of femininity) and that sucks because men are physically stronger 99% of the (biological) time. Some women are raped SO hard that thy can never have children. Some women are even murdered after rape, because the rapist doesn’t want to be identified. Men don’t usually tell their stories of abuse because they want to appear strong, but for every man, there are hundreds… Read more »
Allison, Anyone who believes that sympathy, empathy and compassion should be granted based SOLELY on the basis of gender is not much of a person to begin with, nor are they someone who should be trusted around survivors. You strike me a dangerous individual attempting show a little fake concern. What happened to me was not “unfortunate.” It was traumatic. It is called rape. It isn’t called “unfortunate.” I was raped. It left me mentally and emotionally wounded, unable to trust women and shaped my future life in ways that a person like you could never comprehend. I’d call that… Read more »
“Though it is unfortunate that you went through something so traumatically disgusting, it wasn’t life threatening as it is when it’s men against women.”
You are a rape apologist, Allison. You are a rape apologist.
Just sit with that for a while.
Allison I think your comment is not helpful. Having your life threatened does not come in a form of having a gun held to your head. A comment, a statement, feeling helpless, forced to do something you did not plan on. All of these are threats. I cannot understand the thinking of a person who does not believe a man can be sexual assaulted or raped. Did you not hear about the priests in the Catholic Churches? So many young men unable to find a way out of being a victim because a priest would never do THAT. Just for… Read more »
Allison, it repulses me how unsympathetic you can be considering you have also been raped. Yes people sometimes do have weapons held against them and that is awful. However, James had a rapist on top of him who he could not defend himself from because she was pregnant, and the fact that the stupid media and public portrays rapists as only being men, meant that she could easily yell rape and be sent to prison and in my opinion that is far worse than having a knife held up to you. Why dont you go be a heartless bitch somewhere… Read more »
I’m sorry to say, so many people get stuck in stereotypes. I do what I can (not much) in the feminist community to treat people like people, not as stereotypes. This means carefully separating ideas, and trends, and feelings from each person you talk to. It’s a shame that we need (and I do mean need) people like you who experience the lesser statistic to speak up just for people to even understand what that statistic means.
But thank you for sharing with us, it helps me understand more. 🙂
James, I am so sorry for what you have gone through, and are still going through. Sadly, being a ”survivor” of a sexual crime does not mean that you don’t struggle daily with the emotional aftermath. I am a survivor of a sexual assault as well, and I experienced many of the same things that you did. I can remember a point where I was irrationally afraid of going to retrieve my MAIL. I would run from the front door to the mailbox…terrified. Even if there was no one outside. I also remember feeling that no man could understand, as… Read more »
I just want to pop in and say thank you to James. This comment thread seems like a bit of a mine-field, and one based mostly on people’s assumptions and misunderstandings. Suffice to say, James, telling your story was brave. Your honesty and insightful observations are both necessary and helpful. As a fellow survivor of sex abuse, I salute you.
This woman was either severely messed up or disgustingly manipulative. Who uses a pregnancy as an excuse for rape? That is sick. No wonder you couldn’t seek help for such a long time, I’m glad you did in the end
I’m very saddened by this story but also hoping that your story will help others to come forward. I myself understand what you’ve been through and burying it etc …..so I’m proud whenever survivors can come forward and speak out.
By the way, this article has been linked to and quoted by Andrew Sullivan on two separate occasions:
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/01/when-women-rape-men.html
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/04/how-many-women-rape-men.html
Hopefully, that will help change a few minds with regard to male survivors, victim-blaming and the healing process.
I loved this article and appreciate your courage to speak about your trauma. However I, like a few others here, was also thrown off by your reference to “elevator gate.” (I was also surprised that you responded so angrily, because her tone didn’t strike me as impolite in the least) like her, I found myself thinking “why doesn’t he understand where those women are coming from when he himself feels the exact same way?” if you were to avoid me in an elevator or an empty parking lot, I wouldn’t get angry with you in the least because I know… Read more »
Cathy, Thank you for taking the time to write. As I have explained repeatedly along with many others, the elevator-gate reference is not AT ALL how you portrayed it. I am not talking about REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL FEARS, but the ridiculous hypothetical argument made by some extremists that all men SHOULD be treated like rapist because SOME are rapists. Once again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL FEARS. Okay? Really. I’ve explained this REPEATEDLY. Suzy, and one troll who found many of his abusive and off-topic posts deleted, refused to even NOTICE that and kept going… Read more »
James,
It was perfectly clear the first time you wrote it. Anyone who does not understand is either severely linguistically challenged, or most likely just not putting in the appropriate effort to understand perceptions beyond their own point of view. Thank-you for writing. All of this.
sincerely,
-Adam
Wow, thank you for sharing your story. I actually held my breath during the second part of it and felt panicked.
It is one thing to understand that rape is something that can occur to men and should be treated the same way as female rape, but another to actually hear it from the perspective of a victim. This is an article I’ll share with my friends.
Like a Lie Detector Test (Polygraph Test), there is an urgent need to develop “brain monitoring” techniques which are currently at an experimental stage. Once such a procedure is perfected, and implemented as a judicial tool, it should expose MANY people and relieve all those who have been falsely accused of crimes, not just related to sexual abuse/assault/violence, but overall.
James, thank you so much for your courage through your experience and sharing it with others. I know how difficult it is to go through rape as I have been in similar shoes in my life. Whether it is from a man or woman, it is absolutely unacceptable and wrong. Each day, I believe we are healing little by little, and learning to love ourselves even more for what we went through. Sometimes it’s hard not to feel like a victim, but people like you give me strength to be a survivor.
Intellectually I had fully accepted that women could be sexual victimisers just as men could. I knew aggressive women, I knew aggressively sexual women, but until I read your very person encounter with this kind of behaviour somehow I hadn’t really believed it.
Thank you for sharing. More stories like this need to be told.
I’ve heard a similar sentiment from other before Peter. Usually, at least a few people will approach me after a presentation on a campus or church to remark that they never really realized how it could affect a man.
It will take more time to get our stories (male survivors and female survivors of female predators) included in the greater narrative of sexual violence. The more of us who speak out, the faster that will occur.
How did I get PTSD when I’ve never been in the military? By James W. Love, M.Ed. Until my marriage crumbled in the close of the eighties I had very little knowledge of the psychology of spouse abuse. That is often the case with the abused even educated ones like me. Yes, I am a male spouse abuse victim or I was for twelve years. This may seem strange since I am extremely well read. As soon as I started reading in the first and second grades my Mother; who only had been allowed to attend the third grade of… Read more »
Thank you for sharing this story. So important for advocacy to put a face to the experience and the reality that men can be victims, too.
So sorry this had to happen to you, but thank you for being a part of trying to find a way to stop sexual abuse and rape for all.
Thank you Joanna, I greatly appreciate it.
You are so brave! Thank you for speaking out.
Thank you so much James for sharing your story. I hope it inspires other men to be more open about their experiences with rape and sexual assault. I am disgusted by what that woman did to you and I am so sorry that society’s gender expectations forced you to bury the pain for so many years. I am a survivor of physical abuse and this has given me the privilege to meet and befriend many people who have survived similar traumas. Several of my women friends are survivors of rape. But one friend in particular sticks out in my mind.… Read more »
Thanks Christina, I appreciate your compassion and willingness to discuss your own experiences with abuse. Our stories help so many others than we can truly know. Somewhere, someone is sitting in silence and feeling more validated after reading your comments.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for sharing and for your courage. I am sorry you had that experience and the years of your life you have lost. I know that healing from trauma is possible and there are amazing interventions that help. I hope you find that works for you – you deserve to have a life free from the pain of being violated and victimized by someone else. Again, thank you for your courage in speaking your experience.
I’m actually really grateful to hear this perspective because, it reminds me to look past the obvious features we all have on the outside, into the full human life beneath that we all have in common. That men could suffer fear from women is something I had not heard a single man testify to himself although I had imagined it was possible, but to hear it in your own words is of course very powerful and I’m grateful. I have heard many rape stories from women in college as part of my gender studies and that is really not fair… Read more »
Thank you, Rose, for reminding us that we are all human beings underneath. Just as we love each other as men and women, we also fear each other–in different ways, to be sure–but the fear is fully human. In fact, most psychologists of masculinity have a great deal to say about how men fear women at a deep level. We just don’t acknowledge it readily in large part because we think it is unmanly to express fear, especially fear of the feminine. Anyone wanting to explore this further will find Terry Real’s “I Just Don’t Want to Talk About It”… Read more »
Interesting how we pathologize men’s fear of women and rationalize women’s fear of men. Men have no real right to fear women, but women have every right to fear men. “And David Gilmore’s “Misogyny” is a comprehensive and sometimes lurid description of how men’s fear of women plays out as violence against them across cultures and down through history. Our fear of women does not justify our violence in any way, but recognizing it is a first step toward addressing it.” I’m curious how your comment relates to the OP being raped by a woman and subsequently developing a fear… Read more »
Hey typhon. . .. I have to say that as a woman, I’ve done a lot of “actions” in my life. . . including being a top athlete in the country in college (12th at national level). I grew up in an all girl – very tomboyish family. I think what you are talking about, is not about actual biological males and females of the world (otherwise we’d have much more pronounced sexual dimorphism!), but the memes, or stories or masks we are expected to play out in order to be accepted in society. So it would really be more… Read more »
I’d respond, but I really don’t see the relevance in your response to what I wrote.
I identified a dynamic I recognized in Larry’s comment. That’s all.
I agree with you that there is a cultural subtext casting men as actors, women as acted upon. It is pretty culturally universal in the public sphere. In the private sphere, it may be quite different, though. Some men learn all too well from their mothers at an early age how terrifying women can be and may carry that into adulthood. They have every “right” to fear the feminine. If they are then hurt or attacked by a woman, that fear is confirmed or intensified. My comment about men’s failure (or refusal) to express that fear is not to pathologize… Read more »
Hey Larry, I’m sorry you still have to put up with knee-jerk reactions like that. I don’t know how to describe it or defend it, only that generalizing like that is not helpful and is embarrassing for me to see come from my side, as a woman and a feminist. My kudos to you for being patient with it, but I think it was more of the drop a bomb and run style. You shouldn’t have to defend yourself from that. Its why I brought my shot-gun full to bear on ridiculous spin statements like that which are so last… Read more »
Thanks, Rose. As a 71-year-old white male college professor, this format is new to me. I don’t mean to be a techno-curmudgeon, but I prefer the more civil face-to-face conversation where we know who is saying what to whom and generally have to do so with due regard to the feelings of the other since they are only feet away from us instead of infinite cyber-miles. This technology lends itself to a certain coarseness, I’m afraid. In any case, it is clear that you have thought a lot about these issues and if you have a chance to glance at… Read more »
Civil face to face should be the ideal, in my mind. But now we have the internet and that allows for that coarseness as you mention, the “drive by comment” as I think of them. It’s easy to be cruel when one is anonymous. Thank you for your piece here. I appreciated reading it.
Oh and lastly typhon, don’t know your rep here on this blog, but I think the larry guy was responding to my post mostly, as a friendly thing, and if you re-read it rather, or re-read it as I did (the always skeptical) I would see that he’s not being anti-feminist or sexist or apologetic at all simply stating some interesting knowledge. Your reply however, contains much more in it that could be contrived as generalizing. . . which if you know what that is. . . is not that helpful. Like I said before, you should consider that other… Read more »
I’m responding because I don’t want to give the impression that I’m a ‘drive by commentator.’
However, I have nothing substantive to say to your comment aside from noting that I think you’re arguing with something that isn’t there.
“I would see that he’s not being anti-feminist or sexist”
Stop conflating these concepts. Being against feminism is not related to being sexist. Period.
Agreed. I think one can be very against this new brand of feminism because it is the feminism itself that has become sexist. The origin of feminism comes from wanting to be on equal footing; not from wanting to turn into our oppressors and rule ourselves more important than men, our sufferings more important than theirs etc. It was about fighting sexism.
I am a feminist/human activist but I am against a large branch of feminism.
That’s a problem some of them have. They depend on conflations like that to protect themselves from criticism.
Another one to look out for is the trying to make anything that could be seen as equality with feminism. That way if you disagree with a feminist on something suddenly you are against equality.
Thanks a lot for your recommends. I will check them out for sure!
Thank you Rose, for understanding and responding with compassion.
I’m with you right up to the point where you talk about a “whole new level of offensive” in the controversy about women being afraid of men in elevators, because of concern that they might be raped. You say you yourself had trouble being alone in an elevator with women, and that you felt discomfort in other situations around strange women. Why then can’t you understand why some women might feel this way around men? When I heard your story, I immediately understood why you’d feel uneasy, and if I had made you feel uneasy simply because I’m female, I… Read more »
Those are really good questions Suzy and I’m glad you took the time to ask them, rather than attribute feelings, words and thoughts to me that I didn’t say, don’t feel and didn’t think. Oh wait. You did the opposite. Anyway. I don’t have a problem with a woman being concerned about a possible man being a rapist. I have a problem with certain women who used that fear to make the case that ALL MEN SHOULD BE FEARED OMG ALL THE TIME BECAUSE MEN ARE RAPISTS and any man who is not sheepish and submissive or doesn’t like being… Read more »
CJ, No, she did not simply ask polite questions. She accused me, in the form of a thinly veiled question, of not having empathy for female rape survivors. Then you, despite the question being answered by multiple commenters, go on to repeat the same baseless allegation re: empathy. That is a big, giant, crazy manipulation of a lie. I did not mock her ANYWHERE in my response. You don’t like my response because you clearly agree with Suzy, which is coloring your interpretation of my response to her. That’s fine and that’s your right, but please don’t pretend that Suzy… Read more »
In all honesty I don’t think the comment needs or needed to be clarified. Even if you hadn’t been party to those other blogging discussions, and i wasn’t, the meaning of them was implied. “Remember the controversy in the feminist blogosphere over strange men talking to women in an elevator? Reverse the sexes and I lived it. For me, the issue wasn’t hypothetical or used to demonstrate which gender has it worse with regard to potential sexual violence. It was based on an actual trauma response. The back and forth over why men should expect to be viewed as rapists… Read more »
Show me a link where a female rape survivor is challenged and criticized this strongly.
He has every right to be angry at you both.
James,
I want to clarify something. I did not accuse you of “lacking empathy”. In fact, when I said this: “Isn’t empathy your first response, given your experience?” I was assuming that you DO have such empathy, and indeed that it is probably your first response. Precisely because you DO have it, you can probably understand why women might have a generalized fear of men in certain situations. That is my point. I don’t want to argue about the other things you said–that’s fine, water under the bridge.
Thank you for the clarification Suzy. Perhaps it will be interesting to note that MANY people, including several female survivors, took your words to mean what I took them to mean. Also, my empathy is for sexual violence survivors regardless of gender. I’ve served as a secondary to many people for nearly 20 years, including several close female friends. My empathy is for real people, not the hypothetical men and women described online by certain idealogues on the internet (what I was speaking to – and most readers understand) who seized upon elevator-gate to demonize all men and promote a… Read more »
“The elevator-gate controversy was not about empathy, but sexism disguised as “concern.” We are not even talking about the same thing.” James I’m not sure if you are aware that there is a significant twist in the elevator-gate controversy. It turns out that the main protagonist has an unusual disability – (Rebecca “Skepchick” Watson) is disabled and has “Prosopagnosia” – a cognitive impairment which means she is unable to recognise or recall faces. So she was not creeped out by the guy – she was creeped out because she could not tell if it was a guy she knew or… Read more »
@ CJ Fields – I have to say that I have been watching your unfolding analysis and it is extremely flawed. It is interesting to see just how “Comments” can be added to threads in particular places and actually make it hard for readers to see the Wood For The Forest – and how criticisms can be made to appear more valid than they actually are. The added comments disrupt time lines and communications flows. It is a known limitation of the format – but that limitation is also open to manipulation as well. The trials and tribulations of text… Read more »
picking gnat-s**t out of pepper – I will pick out one thing from the pepper! You claim that you did not/do not understand the reference to “The back and forth over why men should expect to be viewed as rapists by women in elevators took on a whole new level of offensive when viewed through the lens of my own experience.”. When do you intend to ask what it refers to and clarify matters for yourself? You have been apparently attempting to clarify a great deal for other people, but that piece in the pepper still needs to be picked… Read more »
Regardless of whether Suzy was ignorant, malicious or otherwise intended the insinuation that he was invalidating female survivors was offensive. Don’t mistake my understanding that it might not have been purposeful as supportive. I think James has every right to be offended. If I had been brave enough to write my story and people accused me of invalidating fellow survivors through admitting I share a fear..well, I would be royally hacked off too. To be honest, if all people can find to complain/argue about is the semantics of a sentence that has been explained to death by commenters and James… Read more »
I agree Tara! I am bemused as to why some are looking for small objects in the pepper when the whole thread is peppered with information! P^/
“If I had been brave enough to write my story and people accused me of invalidating fellow survivors through admitting I share a fear..well, I would be royally hacked off too.”
You may be hacked off – some would be standing by with rifles and buckshot to pepper offenders backsides with a lot more! You’re not alone – and there is a guard on standby!
Thank you Tara. I greatly appreciate your support, as always.
I think you have entirely misread him. “Remember the controversy in the feminist blogosphere over strange men talking to women in an elevator?” He is asking us, as readers, to cast out minds back to the controversy than occurred over men speaking to women. He isn’t forming an opinion on that issue at all – that is something you have discerned yourself. He only regales the point to help us to understand that he feels as women have said they do about strangers in elevators. I can only imagine when reading this post, Suzy was coming in from the place… Read more »
You are equating all women with a PTSD survivor?
If a woman has had a terrible experience which has given her PTSD I can see she might have a problem with men in lifts… or women in lifts… or anything I suppose… any ORDINARY life experience for someone else might be a problem. But where does the idea come from that all perfectly healthy women should behave as if they have suffered such a disability?
I’m not sure where you got the impression anyone here thought that.
Tara – it is a “Trope”(That word has to be banned along with conflate) that has been rolled out repeatedly across many threads. I have extensive experience in dealing with both PTSD and Sexual assault survivors with PTSD. It has been extremely UNhelpful when some have put forward the view that all men are to treat all women as if those women have been raped and now have PTSD. It is such an extreme view, and also grossly disrespectful to those with PTSD ( From any Trauma ) and also to those who are dealing with any form of sexual… Read more »
I’m aware of it existing as an opinion but none of us here have shared that view. Hence my confusion
Tara – there was not just Trope but Sub-Trope to the Elevator Trope. I agree with James “The back and forth over why men should expect to be viewed as rapists by women in elevators took on a whole new level of offensive when viewed through the lens of my own experience.” Some attempted to argue, and even still do, that as it’s possible for someone who has developed sexual assault related PTSD to be exposed to re-experiencing that was linked to a lone male in an elevator and a women. Some have gone so far as to claim through… Read more »
Hi, just curious, may I asked what your disability may be? 🙂
Off topic, I also just came here to say many of you have such eloquent writing styles. I could learn a thing a two.
To the writer of this article, I’m sorry you had to experience such a thing. It’s scary, because I feel the same way about men, I can’t seem to trust anyone who tries to get too close to me.
Honestly, I’m not sure what you’re talking about–apparently there’s some deeper controversy about this elevator issue that I’m not aware of. I was responding mainly to this: “The back and forth over why men should expect to be viewed as rapists by women in elevators took on a whole new level of offensive when viewed through the lens of my own experience.” I don’t understand what was offensive here. If you’re not offended by the idea that many women would be uneasy about being in an elevator with a strange man, given their experiences, then it would seem we agree,… Read more »
The controversy isn’t in the simplicity of a man or a woman may feel uncomfortable around the opposite sex. It comes from “feminists” taking the tone to imply that all women should be wary of ALL lone men in elevators etc without thought for non abusive men, abusive women or victimised men. Which is why James points out that he as a _man_ felt wary too. It isn’t a women’s only issue.
It was interesting to come back here (Andrew Sullivan’s blog linked to this story again, because of another more recent one by the same author) and read a bunch of replies that I never saw before. Maybe I can clarify a few things. My husband was raped by a woman when he was in college and had come home drunk from a party. I’ve been sexually assaulted more than once (as a child, and then later as an adult). So I have a pretty clear grasp of the idea that anyone can be sexually assaulted, and anyone can perpetrate an… Read more »
Here is the thing Suzy. This isn’t about “the idea that women might be wary of men in an elevator, or other situations where they can’t easily get away.” It was about the appropriate behavior of a) only men b) about ALL men, c) the reactions of ALL women, not just rape-survivors, and d) over a behavior that most men or women would do. Here is what happened in “elevator-gate” for anyone reading this who doesn’t know what happened: Rebecca Watson was speaking at an atheist conference in Dublin, after which she had a few drinks with the rest of… Read more »
Thank you Andrew K. I appreciate you speaking out. Having my words twisted or outright IGNORED in favor of imaginary words I never uttered is getting really OLD.
I appreciate it.
CJ, accusing someone of lacking empathy (as SEVERAL commenters here ALSO pointed out REPEATEDLY), is pretty rude, as were many of your prior postings that were deleted by the mods for abuse.
I need to check some of me email in boxes more often! Suzy you say: “I was puzzled by the comment about “a whole new level of offensive”, since I didn’t (and still don’t) see what was offensive about the idea that women might be wary of men in an elevator, or other situations where they can’t easily get away.” Some credentials for me – male sexual abuse survivor, human rights advocate, I have worked with and for all persons who have suffered all forms of sexual violence and abuse – ignoring sex, gender, age, ethnicity … in fact any… Read more »
Suzy – It also has strong links to Rape Denial and Rape Apologia – If a male dismisses, or discounts in any way, a female’s experience of Rape all hell breaks out. But – If a male says he has been raped by a women the responses are to Trivialise the experience by Numerical/Quantitative Argument – Qualitative Argument – and basically deny the effect. By the definitions used by Feminist writers on the subject of rape, that is rape denial and rape apologia – and it highlights a grave double standard and gross sexism. There is a lot of history… Read more »
But – If a male says he has been raped by a women the responses are to Trivialise the experience by Numerical/Quantitative Argument – Qualitative Argument – and basically deny the effect.
Yeah I remember that. A post here recently that boiled down to. “I’m not trying minimize male sexual assault victims. I’m just saying that if you look at the Quantitative Differences you’ll see that women have it worse.”
Suzy I saw it the same way. I believe that the sentence and paragraph does not accurately portray the meaning. Just clearly what the offense is is not clear except by surmise. And James I hope perhaps you might look at the comments about that sentence to find a way to perhaps expound or expand on what is offensive. Cause for sure you are not offended that women have talked about suffering pstd but something else. Yet the sentence or paragraph doesn’t say that. That’s all that Suzy is indicating. I think that as human all day we are giving… Read more »
No CJ, her post was not written with politeness and curiosity. She clearly accused me of lacking empathy for female rape survivors. The fact that she phrased in the form of a question really did little to change the meaning. You may agree with her, and that is fine, but don’t mischaracterize me or my response simply because you agree with Suzy. You are now doing the same thing that she accused me of doing, lacking empathy. A woman came onto a thread about men raped by women and then accused a man who was raped by a woman of… Read more »
Can the man share is experience?…WITHOUT question…can we just ’empathize’ with his personal experience?…
This is heartbreaking. I am sorry you had to go through this.
Thanks Vas. I know you’ve got your scars too and I appreciate your support.
James: That sounds completely horrible and frightening. It’s no wonder you’ve been traumatised.
Kudos for telling your story.
Of *course* sex without consent is rape – whether through weapons, drugs, blackmail, abuse of authority, or youth. The implied threat to accuse James of rape is coercion enough. The question here isn’t whether this is rape or not – it’s how we educate everyone to avoid raping anyone, and to seek help if they have urges in that drection.
Thanks Maria. I hope that it helps others who are still in denial about rape vs. “rape rape”.