Personally, I don’t give a damn about the label of feminism. It’s one that I rarely use myself. What I DO care deeply about is the perpetuation of gendered nonsense.
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My daughter is going to start dating, eventually. Like most parents, I’m curious and apprehensive, and excited to meet the guys she dates. I think I’ve done a good job raising her to pick good men, and be a good partner to them.
I am raising a daughter who knows that the most important thing she can do for someone else is create a safe and loving space for them to be the best version of themselves they can be. According to themselves.
In the case of my daughter, at least right now, what makes her happy and fulfilled means excelling at very “masculine” things like Olympic Weight-Lifting and math. You know, Like A Girl.
I have been accused of being a feminist, of course. What with this pesky habit I have of raising a daughter who believes that all of us have the right to be who we want to be. That none of us should be denied opportunity, or given unfair burdens in this life, just because of the chromosomal hand we were dealt.
I look forward to meeting the young men (or, I suppose, women, but I don’t think that’s where we’re headed) that she dates. I think she’ll have awesome taste in people and relationships.
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It is through that lens of expectant curiosity that I read a rather confusing piece on YourTango by Tara Kennedy-Kline. It was confounding in her insistence that because she has sons, she can no longer support feminism. That feminism is out to hurt her sons, and she somehow needs to protect them from “us”.
The whole thing was baffling to me, in no small part because it was steeped in such a catastrophic misunderstanding of what feminism is. The only thing that was really clear to me was that I did not want my daughter to date her sons.
But I was also glad that feminism will be there for her sons, even if my daughter (or girls like her) may not be. It really will be. Despite her misunderstanding that feminism is here to suppress masculinity, it’s really here to support it. Because it’s about equal rights and opportunities for all humans. And her sons are humans, albeit not ones that are prepared to date my daughter.
Despite her misunderstanding that feminism is here to suppress masculinity, it’s really here to support it.
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She believes that, “The FCKH8 Campaign would have girls tell my sons to ‘fuck off’ if they called them pretty or reached for their hand without permission.” But what the FCKH8 campaign* is really doing is teaching consent. The awesome idea that if women want sexual attention, they can and should ask for it, so that her sons won’t forever be wandering around in a world of mixed signals, trying to decipher if a girl wants physical attention, risking rejections and allegations of assault. Teaching all people to ask for what they want sexually reduces shame and should create a world were her sons are getting more great sex. And it’s not just girls who deserve the right to give consent, boys should have the right to have their sexual boundaries respected too. But, to be clear, FCKH8 is a private business, not a representative of feminism.
She thinks that #YesAllWomen “wants my boys to know that the fact they have a penis makes them a threat. They cite the statistic that 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted, but seem to ignore they are sending the message to little girls to assume 100% of all men are rapists.” But that’s not what that statistic says. It says that men are our greatest ally, really, and they have the chance to stand up to sexual violence alongside of us. So that we can stop being so afraid, get our defenses down, and have more of that awesome consensual sex that we all want. It’s not their penises that will make her sons a threat, it’s the fact that they’re being raised to believe that sexual assault is someone else’s problem, which means they won’t likely be part of the solution.
She seems pissed that #FreeTheNipples “preaches to end ‘slut shaming,’ yet what they are really doing is flipping the shame of ‘sluttiness’ from the girls who expose their breasts (and bellies and butt cheeks) to the boys who look at them.” But really, it’s about removing the notion of sluttiness from everyone. That women have the right to wear whatever they want without being called slutty or looked at as a target. And anyone who wants can think whatever they want, but they don’t need to tell us. Whether they find someone attractive or not isn’t important to anyone except themselves and the people they’re having sexual relationships with. (Who, thanks to the work of feminists, will be able to dress however they want, and ask for the sex they want, without shame.)
She bemoans that TakePart.com “supports teen girls spin doctoring age-old terms like ‘boys will be boys,’ which is more about farting, burping, and falling out of trees than it is sexual harassment.” This might be the most important place where she is the most wrong. Feminism simply seeks to end the essentialism of gender behavior. But again, she needn’t worry, because that’s not why we need to dismantle phrases like “boys will be boys” and “girls will be girls.” There was a time when “girls will be girls, ” meant that girls were weak, emotionally volatile, frivolous, helpless, shallow and bad at both math and sports. Feminism was all like, “WOAH, not necessarily true.” Some girls are wicked strong, emotionally insensitive and kick math’s ass. In fact, girls can be ALL THE THINGS.
Feminism feels the same way about boys. When people say “boys will be boys,” they tend to mean bullying, or distracted, or rude or…you know, “boys.” Feminism doesn’t buy into that myth either. That doesn’t mean that boys can’t be strong, and tough and brave, or that they aren’t some times rude (hint: so are girls) it just says they don’t have to be. And certainly not all the time.
We can even take turns.
____
I have no doubt that Ms. Kennedy-Kline is smart, well-intentioned and really just wants the best for her boys. Parenting is one of the hardest jobs ever. But what she is doing in this piece is not only furthering really unfortunate stereotypes for her sons, but also showing a shocking misunderstanding of what feminism is.
Which brings me to why I really hope that her sons won’t date my daughter.
Her sons are being taught that:
– Being masculine means always paying the check, as opposed to being allowed to have people “treat” them, or allowing women the financial freedom and agency to do the same. I don’t want my daughter in a relationship with someone who has a hard time openly receiving the gifts of love, in all its forms.
– Being a “man” means supporting your family without help, rather than creating a partnership that allows both parties to contribute if they want to, however they can. I don’t want my daughter in a relationship with someone who feels they have to shoulder all burdens, or is somehow less of a “man” when things aren’t going his way. Those people get really warn down, and that’s not healthy for anyone.
-Being a man means always being a strong shoulder to cry on, as opposed to a human who also sometimes needs to land on the strong shoulder of someone – maybe even a woman – when they need it. I want her to have a partner who can openly express himself to her, and appreciate that she is strong enough to love him anyway, perhaps even because of it.
-Being a man means adhering to a man-code, which in turn means so do the partners in their life. She is not giving them a choice in how they express both their gender and their humanity. Men ARE this way, women ARE that way, and that’s the way it is. In reality, we are all capable of being ALL the things that work for us, and have the right to do so without shame.
But more than all that, she’s raising boys who will believe the false paradigm that my daughter being true to herself inherently means that she is taking away someone’s else’s rights on a fundamental level. That’s just not true. A woman’s right to be who she wants to be doesn’t take away a man’s right to do the same. And we all have the right to be free and empowered regardless of our gender. None of us have the right to infringe on someone else, regardless of our gender.
Her sons are probably lovely kids, and they will most likely grow into wonderful men. But I’m old enough to see a pattern that worries me. Often when I see kids—boys or girls—growing up into strict gender roles and rigid societal expectations, I later see teens and adults who are varying degrees of broken on the inside. They feel bad for not being what their parents want them to be. Or what society wants them to be. They don’t feel “good enough” and often compensate with behaviors that I, frankly, would not like my daughter to have to deal with.
Because, on top of all that, it’s not my daughter’s job to fix and heal people, and I hope I do a good job of teaching her that. I don’t want her dating boys who believe feminism is anti-man in any way. Or who think that in order to be men, they have to “manly” in some cartoony and arbitrary way.
Sometimes I just want to scream, “can we just get on with the job of loving accepting and appreciating ourselves and others ?” Then I run across opinions like Ms. Kennedy-Kline’s and I realize that we can’t. Not as long as anyone is spreading the myths that it’s a man’s job to take care of everyone else. And that a woman trying to work toward equal rights for herself and others is somehow a threat to men.
Personally, I don’t give a damn about the label of feminism. It’s one that I rarely use myself. What I DO care deeply about is the perpetuation of gendered nonsense. And the misguided way that people blame any “-ism” for things that are in no way core to that “-ism.” Feminism DOES NOT take away anyone’s right to be anything. And perpetuating the myth that it does is precisely the thing that continues the Us vs. Them battle.
If we don’t get past that, then we will never really be able to love each other.
And life is so much better with love.
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*(not defending the entirety of FCKH8 and their work here – just to be clear)
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This post is republished on Medium.
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You’ve totally missed the point of her orginal article. And there were some points that you’re being guileful about. Lying is not a good example to set to kids. What she’s saying is that she (and her husband) are raising her boys to be good and upright men. The way the movement is going in industrualised countries leads them to be confused is how the should talk to, approach, date and relate with women. Do you what is worse than nagging. Is when women make their unqualified appraisals about men and masculinity. And fail to inform us about the veritable… Read more »
I want to add something that people in this culture continually overlook. We live in a time where technology makes life so much easier for anyone and everyone, so long as they choose to use it. This so-called “patriarchy” was employed during a time when men and women had to work together to survive. How did they divide up the roles amongst them? Simple. They did the jobs that their biology best suited them for. Men cut down trees, chopped wood, hunted and killed wild, dangerous animals, dug ditches, created holes and the fences to put in them. These jobs… Read more »
“Problem is, as soon as the word ‘patriarchy’ is uttered (see that play on words there?) men will freak out, as if it’s a code word for ‘men are all evil, cut off all the penises.’ Which it is not. It is a word to describe a centuries-old system in which men created codes by which we all live – men and women alike.” Alyssa, relatively speaking, you’re right, and relatively speaking, you’re wrong. The problem is -with the use of the word “patriarchy”- that it has been appropriated by gender-based ideology to suggest or assert the concise belief in… Read more »
NICE RESPONSE, Mostly. Unfortunately, I think it was too wordy for people to keep an interest or it went over too many peoples’ heads.
I’m sorry Alyssa, but I really think it is a mistake to raise boys, and girls, with feminist values. I am a 58 year old man who was raised by a feminist mother. I was taught that men achieved because of advantages and that women did not because they were held back. I was taught that women suffered at the hands of men. I was also taught to always include women and look out for their interests. There are several problems with all of these propositions for boys ego and well being. These propositions rob boys of all their achievements… Read more »
Of course there are no gender differences between the sexes. The gigantic reading gap among boys and girls in school is from what … the boys drinking too much coolaid? Yes, lets pretend that gender differences don’t exist, ignore the fact that boys are failing in school, university, working and life. Lets pretend we don’t have 60/40 universities with affirmative action being used to keep the boys at 40%. Let’s pretend that we can have a functioning society when 30 year old women who were told by feminism they could have it all but they can’t have a husband because… Read more »
I LOVE this article. Couldn’t agree more 🙂 I’m a mother of two boys and a feminist. I LOVE men! My sons are being raised to celebrate their masculinity while respecting and encouraging their female peers. I hope people stop buying into the conservative media spin that feminist = man haters. They’ve made it a dirty word very much on purpose.
I would just like to say that I witnessed a true showing of how feminism has changed the outlook on gender roles. My husband (who is a hard-working mechanic and my hero) stated that I didn’t need to worry about being a stay at home mom because he wouldn’t mind being Mr. Mom. We live a very rural area where gender roles are still in place and this came at time when I was terrified of balancing my professional career with motherhood. I am the money-maker in the house (he supported me through college to get here) and giving up… Read more »
Well, looks like my critique has been deleted.
Fine, I guess I’ll just keep my mouth shut from now on and never participate in these threads again. You win.
I find it interesting to see all the backlash to “feminism,” especially worded so well. Also, I’ve read several comments from women on social justice sites that denounce feminism for the sake of men. It feels to me as if these people are at the forefront of gender evolution. At the same time, I understand the reluctance to have feminism be the scapegoat of this evolution. Feminism has really made this movement toward equality possible for men as well as women. It’s like, as Alyssa said, the use of the label of “Christian” by the Westboro Baptist Church. The difference… Read more »
@ Paul
But why would first and second wave and even some third wave feminists not be considered and be representative of feminists because some other feminists have evolved into a more egalitarian position? It would be like saying that Roman Catholics aren’t Christian because Mormonism came later.
I’m not sure what you’re asking; is it a question of defining feminism by time period within the women’s movement? Because what I feel is that “feminism” has become, despite its best intentions, a loaded term with negative connotations of misandry, which is why many men, and even some modern women, have rejected it; they don’t believe the intent of feminism is to promote true gender equality, despite what proponents of the term may argue and what definition they insist upon. But if they are dedicated to gender equality, they must realize that feminism has done most of the work… Read more »
Quite a while ago I wrote a comment somehere criticizing Alyssa Rosenberg for framing a fictional scene of a male rape perpetrated by a woman (from the TV show Louie) as a feminist classic since it shed light on the lack of reciprocity for women regarding oral sex. That Melissa Leo’s character went on to physically threaten and assaulting Loius’ character (punching him in the head so his head bounced off the car’s side window with such a force that it shattered) before raping him (making him perform oral sex on her) was downplayed. I titled the comment: “TV-show shows… Read more »
Breastfeeding has never been a problem for me, feel free to breastfeed near me. Anyways I ascribe to what the other guys are saying. I know not all feminists are “bad” but to many politicized and specialized in exclusively dealing with women issues. That is the problem, IMO you need to get rid of this kind of feminists because they are making your work harder. Personally speaking I get a bit disappointment when a feminist only talk about the good thing aspects of their movement, ending their praise with, I dont understand why young women (people) despise feminism. Because either… Read more »
Hi Alyssa, After reading ‘Who Stole Feminism’ by Christina Hoff Sommers I started to understand the difference between two aspects of feminism – equality feminism and gender feminism. As you say ‘isms’ can get us into strife when they’re used to divide. I do know of examples where gender feminism has been promoted at the expense of men, and one example in Australia is in the area of funding for men’s health programs. Here, 5 men die every day from suicide, a rate that 4:1 that of women. More men die of prostate cancer than women die of breast cancer.… Read more »
The first thing I learned when I started studying feminism was that women are the authorities on their own experiences, and that, when women are talking about their experiences, my place is to listen and to learn, not to tell them that they are wrong when they say something that I find “confusing”. I could find no indication in the article that Ms. Royce has any experience of being a boy or a man or of raising sons. Yet her reaction to Ms. Kennedy-Kline, someone who actually does have experience with raising sons, when Ms. Kennedy-Kline says things Ms. Royce… Read more »
I would love to see a response to this, but I’m not holding my breath
“The first thing I learned when I started studying feminism was that women are the authorities on their own experiences, and that, when women are talking about their experiences, my place is to listen and to learn…” Appeals to authority like that are typically something of a double-edged sword. It was that first part at the beginning of the comment got me thinking the most. The appeal to collective authority such as that described seems to be at the core of much of feminist discourse: What is being described (however nicely or progressively it gets presented to its prospective pupil) is a lesson… Read more »
I actually like and agree with what you are saying, but what frustrates me about feminism is how some feminist organizations like the AAUW, down play men’s issues such as the gender gap that’s in our colleges and universities. The AAUW, a feminist organization for the advancement of women in colleges and universities, came out with a report that completely down plays the fact that nearly 60% of college grads and students are women, meaning only 40% are men. Despite the fact that boys are falling behind girls academically, they don’t see a problem with it. I don’t even know… Read more »
I think it’s REALLY important to ascribe frustration pretty specifically when we’re dealing with “isms.” The AAUW is an autonomous group, that is founded on their interpretation of the concepts of feminism, and is focused on their specific mission. It is not “feminism.” Kind of like The Westborough Baptist Church is not “Christianity.” I would think that there are a great many issues that face women in colleges and universities that men don’t face. So that seems legit to me. However, I agree, men it colleges and universities also face unique problems that women don’t face, so an equivalent organization… Read more »
As long as he follows these simple rules, there is little the modern man has to worry about: 1. Never give a woman any legal, physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual or financial power in your life. What does that mean? No marriage, no cohabitation and God help you if you can’t definitively prove consent for any physical contact that might occur. If you want a child, get a surrogate. Do this and you never have to worry about divorce, alimony, child support or being stripped of your current and/or future assets/income. 2. Have as little as possible to do with women… Read more »
From the bottom of my heart, I hope that those rules bring you joy and that you abide by them always.
Read Men On Strike by Helen Smith and The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar. The fact that they were written by women speaks volumes.
Vilar’s book is my favorite. To wit: “The book argues that, contrary to common feminist and women’s rights rhetoric, women in industrialized cultures are not oppressed, but rather exploit a well-established system of manipulating men. Vilar writes, “Men have been trained and conditioned by women, not unlike the way Pavlov conditioned his dogs, into becoming their slaves. As compensation for their labours men are given periodic use of a woman’s vagina.” The book contends that young boys are encouraged to associate their masculinity with their ability to be sexually intimate with a woman, and that a woman can control a… Read more »
How many billions of people on earth at the moment? 5? So, roughly 2.5 billions are females, of these let’s just take a wide margin and say yet half of them are too young or too old to still take part in this game. Mm. Yes. Sometimes it can be heard, seen, found and proven that women in this way play with and abuse others, including men, including their own husbands. Now. The other half of the 5 billion people on earth are male. Again, half of them too young or too old to partake in this silliness. Mm. Yeah,… Read more »
Hey, it’s no more irrational an approach to life than Schrodinger’s Rapist, and that mindset is virtually sacrosanct among women from what I’ve seen when I try to challenge it.
If it’s fine for women to hold to an irrational profiling mindset, then it is scarcely a problem for men to do the same.
And much like female separatism in the 60s and 70s, while it might not be a desirable solution, it does indicate that there is an unresolved injustice in play that is driving people to think that this solution is their only one.
Thank you so much.
The U.S law system must be pretty terrible there. I suppose Australia isn’t any better, but I’ll take my chances and try find love.
Men need to get together and start letter writing lawmakers to bring equality into the family court system though. It doesn’t help that the women’s side has much much more pull in this regard and either intended or unintended consequences can now harm men in the family courts. We need men to band together, and women who support them to try ensure equality in the courts, rid the courts of bias favouring mothers for custody, etc.
Archy, I agree 100% that laws favoring women in custody battles automatically is wrong for everyone. It’s a huge problem and I’ve seen it play out badly far too many times. It’s one of the very tangible places in which more equality in the workplace would have an obvious and positive impact on the lives of men as well as women.
I wish Good Men Project had a ‘thumbs up’ symbol for Raymond’s comment above. It was perfectly stated.
I agree with you on your push for gender equality, and I believe your daughter is lucky to have a good mother who cares about such things. The problem is, you’re exactly wrong when you say, “Personally I don’t give a damn about the label of feminism.” Otherwise, why would you care that all these other “hateful” groups claim to be feminists? I think you DO care about the label; you’ve defined feminism as a belief in gender equality, for women AND for men, and it offends you to hear it used otherwise. I suppose I get it. Women have… Read more »
The irony here is that I have written often about why I don’t use the term “feminism.” Why I prefer “humanism.” For me, it is largely because the response to the word is so intense and the word itself so misunderstood. I find it akin to my response when I hear people refer to terrorists by the relgion that they co-opt, warp and use as an excuse. Westborough Baptists Church, for instance, is not Christian by any reasonable measure, but when they co-opt the word and use it, they give all Christians a bad name. I myself wonder if the… Read more »
Let me see if I can help Frank out a bit. If you view breasts as sexual rather than food, it may feel like you’re violating her. It’s weird how men who want to look are considered misogynistic and men who don’t want to see it are considered misogynistic and we still have people saying that feminism isn’t anti-male. Like Al Bundy said to Marci when she told him that breast feeding was natural, “So is peeing.” I’m not sure how many women would be comfortable with a guy whipping it out and peeing on a tree. Here’s something else… Read more »
Many, perhaps most of thr vocal breast feeding advocates would not consider themselves feminists at all. In fact there is an aspect of that movement that could be seen as non-feminist or even contrary to some feminist goals. For example, extended breastfeeding makes it difficult for women to go back to work. “Attachment parenting” often has men in a secondary role. Also there is an element of gender essentialism, idealizing traditional feminine qualities and praising motherhood as a woman’s only important role in life to the exclusion of everything else. So, debating breast feeding is really tangential to the debate… Read more »
I’ve been around breastfeeding women. I’ve felt a lil uncomfy that if I look in the general direction (eg at another person talking) that they may think I’m trying to perve but generally I don’t care. I’m happy for people to breastfeed wherever they want, but breasts don’t bother me. Only thing that bothers me is letting them scream n cry near me and say other diners instead of taking them outside for a calm down. Screams n cries give me headaches and are annoying.
Maybe I’m wrong, but the sense I get about this breastfeeding thing that women think of it as “if you think breasts are gross, then don’t look,” while men are thinking “exposed breasts will get me in trouble because they’re sexually compelling” (not because they’re gross). And it makes me think about the difference in visual sexual interest, and how it seems to be dismissed as a factor and demonized by people. Certainly breasts are sexualized by our culture, but maybe some of their allure is perfectly natural. And what DOES it say that Al Bundy isn’t free to pee… Read more »
It’s normal for many men to want to look at breasts but when someone is breastfeeding, it disables the sexual element of it, at least for me. The mothers I’ve known n seen do it just don’t care about other men around, they’re too busy nursing the baby. They’ll continue having full convos with people as if nothing is different.
Ironic that a grown-adult man is demanding that it’s women’s fault for not educating him about what he chooses to remain ignorant about, in 2014. You have internet access – get a-learnin’. Blaming women for not taking the time out of their lives and day to educate you about breastfeeding, after you make a public point of your own discomfort and ignorance about it, is a mark of not just misogyny, but the shifting of blame onto someone else. Breasts serve many purposes, a main one being to feed a woman’s child. I knew this when I was a child,… Read more »
BRAVO.
I agree with this 100%.
It is not misogyny to demand that someone back up a stance or claim they affirm. That’s pretty standard in discourse, and it would be misogynist to assert that women are somehow exempt from this and that it’s hatred to ask it of them. I also find it ironic that you bark the usual “educate yourself” line at someone criticising you, but you then blame men who claim feminists aren’t interested in men’s issues to back up their claims. Well, jeez, Ray – why don’t you just educate yourself, hm? I suspect, given that International Men’s Day is upon us,… Read more »
Don’t expect feminism to help men. Any help men get is a byproduct of the help they do for women. The amount of times I’ve seen feminists say feminism is a WOMEN’S space for WOMEN’S issues clearly outweighs the feminism is for both genders issues. The feminists we have here, are rare, and the fact they are on a site for men shows they have an interest in men’s issues. Alyssa and Joanna’s (and a few others who don’t seem to comment much anymore) feminism is quite different to most of the online feminism you’ll see. It’s the other versions… Read more »
Plus didn’t we all read “Grapes of Wrath” in like the 8th grade.
I think you’re missing the point a lot of these campaigns do shift the blame to men and without really even bothering to acknowledge it. I’ve been yelled at for pointing out that I’m not comfortable with random women breastfeeding around me and would require some education to become comfortable with it. Wherein I was yelled at for suggesting that there’s a burden on women to educate me! But somehow women it’s women that need to get comfortable with things that men do, that’s our fault as well. What this interaction really ought to tell you is that you’re probably… Read more »
Well, I agree that it’s not breastfeeding mothers who should teach you about why we need to be able to breastfeed around you. I don’t know why that bothers you. Breastfeeding has nothing to do with you. Why would a mother need to teach you not to be uncomfortable with breastfeeding? I just don’t understand that. Just don’t look if you don’t like it. It’s been happening since the very first human ever born. And yes, women need to get comfortable with stuff men do. But, like, what stuff is that? I’m perfectly comfortable with stuff men do that doesn’t… Read more »
“And yes, women need to get comfortable with stuff men do. But, like, what stuff is that?”
Off the top of my head, things like a man’s enjoyment of video games, sport, the need for a night out with his male friends and respecting his need to have a “man cave”. Most of these are the subject of derision from women. I’m not saying you do, but women condemning or ridiculing these things is a common experience for the average man.
I am stuck in two places: First, those campaigns are not “feminist” campaigns. They are “cause” campaigns organized by groups of people who have a cause. There is some intersection with feminism, but they are not “feminism” campaigns. It’s like saying that the groups of people who are trying to clothe and feed the homeless are “Christian” campaigns because some of the people doing them consider themselves Christian, and because some of the underlying ideas of charity might align with Christianity. It’s still a homeless campaign, not a Christian one. Second, breast feeding? That’s a Red Herring that has nothing… Read more »
It’s kind of like the #NotAllMen are berated and villified as insignificant, and close to non-existent (as in “no man is innocent”), by the #YesAllWomen, and yet at the same time held responsible for ending the assaults that are committed by other men.
Sounds to me that your making the argument that anything that is natural and necessary and beautiful and a normal part of life should be practiced openly and freely and without restriction or shame or limitation.
I don’t really like to see breastfeeding in public either but I would never complain about it. It’s my own issue which (for me) revolves around feeling that nudity is gross. For the same reason, I don’t like speedo bathing suits on men and I can’t stand women who walk around naked in the locker room at my health club (jeez put on a towel!) but I am not campaigning to stop it. I just avert my eyes and avoid talking them rather than being a jerk about it. Again, it’s my issue. I will probably never join any sort… Read more »
@ Frank
This is precisely why she feels feminism is anti-men. If you look, you’re a perv. If you complain, you’re a prude. It puts men in a position where they can’t win.
How about don’t look and don’t complain?
People are going to look, you are curious by nature. So if you decide to do something around me, and If I feel uncomfortable about it, don’t expect any privacy in public.
Kinda like how patriarchy is anti woman? Cause if you have boobs they belong to a man not the woman whose chest they are on so she can only sue them as he sees fit. Gotcha.
@ Jen @ Lydia Your responses are precisely the problem that’s being pointed out. If a man feels sexually harassed (not wanting to see it), you better be quiet about it so as not to upset women’s sensibilities. If you want to look at it, you should be shamed (which is exactly her complaint) for looking at it (thought of as a perv). How about if you decide to expose yourself, don’t blame others for seeing it, which seems to be her point? Bottom line is feminism says that everything should be done based on the comfort level of women.… Read more »
If seeing a baby eating makes you feel sexually harassed, you may need to reassess what you find sexual. Because babies eating are as nonsexual as it gets. It might be harassment, if she presses her baby attached boob into your face, or aims to squirt you with breastmilk. Perhaps if she was posing for some kind of nursing porn it could be seen as sexual. But just hanging out in public: not sexual. There is nothing sexual about a bunch of tribal African women chatting in a circle in the middle of the village, nursing babies. Otherwise National Geographic… Read more »