Ross Rosenberg helps us understand narcissistic codependent love.
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Considering narcissists have hurt and damaged the lives of so many people, it makes a great deal of sense why there is a proliferation of information, advice, articles and books on the subject of narcissism. There seems to be a surplus of people on Facebook, YouTube and other social networking sites who are making it their life’s mission to vilify narcissists, while making themselves out to be specialists (or even experts) on the subject. Those who contribute are often victims of narcissistic abuse and want to help others avoid their mistakes. I am thankful for their efforts, especially since it is connected to codependency recovery, which is where I spend a great deal of my personal and professional effort. It seems to be one of the biggest psychological movements I have seen in recent years.
And there are well-researched and experienced experts in the area who have and are making valuable contributions to the understanding of narcissism. Sam Vaknin is one such expert on narcissism who, just by his own efforts, has almost made the term “Malignant Narcissist” a household term. But even with his contributions, and perhaps because of them, there has been a backlash of misunderstanding on the subject. By focusing on Malignant Narcissism (which happens to be the condition he purports to have), he has accidentally and unintentionally given the impression that “Malignant Narcissism” is the same clinical condition or psychopathology as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). The truth of the matter is Malignant Narcissism is a subcategory of NPD. Moreover, those with NPD, or what I call “garden variety narcissists,” do not display many of the same characteristics as those with Malignant Narcissism.
One common mistake about Narcissism, which I see frequently on the Internet, about which there is now a deluge of articles, posts and blogs is that those with NPD cannot love and do not have empathy..
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One common mistake about Narcissism, which I see frequently on the Internet, about which there is now a deluge of articles, posts and blogs is that those with NPD cannot love and do not have empathy. This subject was discussed in detail in a recent YouTube collaboration video with me and Sam Vaknin entitled, “Can Narcissists Love and Do They Have Empathy?” Although Vaknin and I agreed it was a complicated question that has an equally complicated answer, we agreed for the most part that narcissists can, in fact, feel and express love and can be empathetic.
We also mostly agreed that Malignant Narcissists and those with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD or Sociopaths) cannot feel or experience love. Because Malignant Narcissism is often confused with ASPD, it is necessary to simply define it as a subcategory of NPD, which is not only a pathologically narcissistic disorder, but also combines traits of Paranoid Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. For more information on Malignant Narcissism, consider reading Vaknin’s book, “Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited” (2015). It is, therefore, correct to assume that Malignant Narc’s and ASPD’s cannot love as it is understood in our general culture. But it is incorrect to make that same leap for those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which will henceforth be referred to as “narcissists.”
As I have mentioned in my YouTube videos and in my book “The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us,” “garden variety narcissists,” or those with NPD are capable of love and empathy AS LONG AS IT MAKES THEM FEEL GOOD OR THEY GET SOMETHING IN RETURN. Since they desperately and perpetually seek love, appreciation and affirmation from others, they will consciously and unconsciously (Human Magnet Syndrome) gravitate toward others that can meet this impossible need. Sadly, however, the people who are going to fall in love with them and, consequently, try to take their problems and pain away are deprived of the very same love, respect and care that the narcissists fight so hard to obtain. These unfortunate people are almost always going to be codependents.
Sadly and pitifully, they can NEVER receive enough of love, respect and care to satiate their unquenchable thirst for it.
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Since narcissists suffered unmitigated abuse and trauma as a child, which was when their pathological narcissism was created, they have a huge gaping empty hole inside themselves that endlessly motivates their futile search for their “holy grail” or fountain of love, respect and care. Sadly and pitifully, they can NEVER receive enough of love, respect and care to satiate their unquenchable thirst for it.
My Human Magnet Syndrome book explains in detail why narcissists perpetually seek love, respect, and care from others, while not being able to reciprocate in the same manner. My book also explains why codependents are the only personality type that can actually withstand the narcissist’s selfishness while shaping it (distorting it) into a loving relationship. Therefore, according to this clinician and writer, it is a fact that both the narcissists and codependents love each other. The feeling is quite real to them. If you don’t believe me, just ask one!
When narcissists fall hopelessly and deeply in love with codependents, they love even more intensely than a person who is psychologically healthy
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When narcissists fall hopelessly and deeply in love with codependents, they love even more intensely than a person who is psychologically healthy, i.e., a person who is neither a codependent nor a narcissist. In the rapturous and euphoric beginning stages of the relationship, the narcissist experiences complete and unconditional love, which is what they have been seeking their whole life. Because the codependent can deliver the goods, they fall hopelessly in love. And why not? They just found the one person who will adore them for who they are and give them love, praise and affirmation despite their broken selves, which they keep nicely repressed and out of the way of their conscious mind. But what the narcissist cannot and does not realize is that their soulmate experience is going to be short-lived.
The fleeting and unstable nature of their love experience is best explained through a metaphor—a bucket with holes. Narcissists need a steady stream of unconditional love, respect and care to keep their hole-ridden bucket filled. No amount of unconditional love or affirmation, kindness, empathy, etc., will ever keep their “buckets” topped off! Hence, their need for affirmation, attention, etc. while desperately self-promoting themselves, gives us an idea why they are motivated, if not addicted, to their narcissistic ways and why they are unable to stop. But here is the rub: they can only adore and love people who fill their holey bucket. They really do “love” these people—their codependents. And the codependents selflessly “love” them back. A sad state of affairs …
Incidentally, the psychologically healthy person has the same bucket. But because the bucket is whole instead of having holes, it can be filled and remain that way. A filled bucket promotes love for self and others. It also promotes an aversion to others who scoop away too much of their own water.
When the narcissist’s bucket is empty, which is a perpetual problem for them, their “love” experience mysteriously vanishes.
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When the narcissist’s bucket is empty, which is a perpetual problem for them, their “love” experience mysteriously vanishes. What once started off as ‘soul mate” experience quickly devolves into a “cellmate” nightmare. They will do whatever they need to do to find a source from which they can siphon water. Their desperate need to keep their bucket filled magnetically draws them back into the “loving embrace” of their endlessly forgiving, selfless and altruistic lover—their codependent; or compels them to find another codependent source. And, as soon as the existing or new codependent re-fills their love bucket, the narcissist’s subjective experience of love returns.
In conclusion, NARCISSISTS CAN LOVE. The question should be why can’t they love someone else unconditionally or why do they hurt people they love. The confusion of Malignant Narcissism with Narcissistic Personality Disorder may be the source of this confusion. Lastly, I don’t want to criticize or blame people for mistakenly believing narcissists can’t love. When one is a victim of narcissistic abuse, it is ever so easy to think of them as monsters who lack human feelings. But don’t get me wrong, I am not on the “love your narcissist” bandwagon!
Originally published on Ross Rosenberg’s blog.
Photo—bark/Flickr
Sadly I feel I am a codependent. An oxymoron. He expects me a certain way interested for years we met when I was 13. Happened to end up together when I was lonely and depressed. But I love him now I feel the need. And the feeling like you’ve been chosen and put above every one else is great then there’s that feeling the uneasy feeling and lack of love. Confusion. An oxymoron cause he didn’t expect my depression and insecurity which makes me harder on both of us but easier to control me. The guilt and the shame anxiety… Read more »
I am providing a 6 hour seminar in London on 11/28 entitled Reversing the Human Magnet Syndrome: Codependency and Trauma Recovery. Please let your UK friends know. Thanks.
http://www.icontact-archive.com/4fNtbE4O_tgdK42eqJ6dMgmj8ARUCsjn?w=3
Ross Rosenberg
I’m fairly certain i’m a narcissist and i actually want to change. I’ve been in 16 or 17 relationships in my life and not once have i ever truly felt i loved my partner. My longest relationship was 2 and a half years. I’m a 23 years male and i just want to experience the feeling of love and at least know what it is before i die. I acknowledge i have this problem of being a narcissist but i just can help it. I cant seem to fall in love with someone. Everytime i get into a relationship, there… Read more »
Jesus can! I truly believe that if you submit to him and ask him that he will help you to feel this type of love you are seeking.
Interesting. I would like to read more on co-dependents to see if i am one or not.
Chef,
You should consider reading my book, The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us.
Ross Rosenberg
“it is a fact that both the narcissists and codependents love each other.” “The feeling is quite real to them.”… “The fleeting and unstable nature of their love experience is best explained through a metaphor – a bucket with holes.” Loving as having an attachment to someone (as limerence), which you reference in The Human Magnet Syndrome, or love as in M. Scott’s definition of love: ““Love is the will to extend one’s self for the purpose of nurturing one’s own or another’s spiritual growth… Love is as love does.”? Love is such an abstract that it can get tricky… Read more »
This…for the very first time has made me stand up and clap regarding “love is conditional”. As an adult …I believe this is so very true and I have always said this to others while they look at ne sideways!
Dear Ross, I appreciate Sam Vaknin almost the most lol. I appreciate you too. Thanks for exposing that these symptoms have a name and are known disorders. Such a relief.
I’m pretty sure this is me:( how can I fix this? I don’t want to be like this forever
I love your comment because its honest. This is probably you and a lot of people, but people hate to admit it. Having a holey love bucket is practically the human condition in this day and age. Not that we shouldn’t do something about it, but expect someone else to help us fix it is also a mistake, once you notice you have that problem, continuing to be honest with yourself and others is my best guess to getting better… but who am I to know this? Just another codependent narcissist, yes, both sound like me.
“They can never receive enough love, care, and respect….”
Yup….yup…. I have wasted my time with several narcissists….boundaries are very important….breaking off a few toxic relationships were key…with the ones I could not just sever, I just would hit the “ignore” button and walk away…..
Hardest part was just recognizing all the manipulation and lying that was going on…
Ross, Thank you so much for this article, and for your book. Your book was instrumental in my understanding of WHY i kept attracting the same type of man. I agree that most of the literature of YouTube videos vilify narcissists, but that didn’t help me move forward as far as figuring out how to have healthy relationships. Learning that I was recreating the childhood attachment bond (or lack thereof) as well as learning about the “zero sum balance” on your Continuum of Self Theory was enlightening. Whereas I was let’s say a CSV -4 on your scale, and my… Read more »
Thank you for the kind words. I am glad my work has helped you. Keep up finding love and acceptance for yourself. Remember self-love, is the antidote to codependency.
Best,
Ross Rosenberg
Beautiful!!
Ross
I look forward to the day Sam Vaknins name never again are mentioned by anyone online.
He is a criminal with fake degreees and it is upsetting that you ,a well educated man , here decribe him as an “expert”.
I leave the dicussion here in case he shows up with his hate and lies.
Ross
I ask you to document how Sam Vaknin is an authority on this?
(in a few second he will be here, and try to do it himseld as that is how he works….)
Ross
I look forward to the day Sam Vaknins name never again are mentioned by anyone online.
He is a criminal with fake degreees and it is upsetting that you ,a well educated man , here decribe him as an “expert”.
I leave the dicussion here in case he shows up with his hate and lies.
The video you link to does not exist.
I read your article and it describes my stepsister and her oldest child to a T.I look froward to reading your book.