– [Producer] What are your thoughts on coming out?
00:01
– I did it a long time ago.
00:03
– It was in 1953 at 10am when they cut me out.
00:07
– [Producer] Have you ever come out to anyone before?
00:08
– It’s obvious.
00:10
– When I meet people, they pretty well know I’m gay.
00:13
– And I’m so butch, so I have no problem.
00:16
– [Producer] How would you feel about
00:17
sharing your coming out story on camera?
00:19
– I have no problem with it.
00:20
In fact, you could probably even make a movie
00:23
or a musical out of mine.
00:25
– [Producer] Great, let’s get started.
00:27
– Hollywood!
00:28
– [Producer] When did you first realize you were gay?
00:30
– I’d say about two years old for me
00:33
and I was just being myself,
00:34
I just loved men.
00:36
Nothing sexually, I just liked to be around men.
00:40
– For me it was going to the matinees
00:43
when I was a young kid.
00:44
Oh, my God.
00:46
Flash Gordon,
00:48
Hopalong Cassidy,
00:49
Billy the Kid.
00:51
I always knew something inside of me was different
00:54
because I had a different reaction to men
00:57
than I did for women.
00:59
– For me, I was probably around five or six years old
01:03
and I loved looking at the underwear section
01:07
of Sears catalogs.
01:09
– See, that was women’s section for me.
01:11
– No, men’s section for me, never the women.
01:14
– [Producer] What did you come out as?
01:15
– I came out as me and I liked men.
01:18
No, I didn’t. I loved them.
01:19
It didn’t have a name.
01:20
– When I came out, I couldn’t wait to jump into bed
01:23
with a man.
01:24
Period.
01:25
I mean, there was no hiding it.
01:26
– I’m not really sure what you mean by “coming out”.
01:30
– [Producer] Tell somebody that you’re gay.
01:31
– I don’t think I ever really said the word “gay”,
01:35
I just did.
01:36
– It didn’t exist.
01:37
– Yeah.
01:38
– Yeah, for real.
01:38
– I confess that I’ve never been to bed with a woman
01:42
and I’ve never had the desire.
01:45
– [Producer] When did you come out?
01:46
– I was 27 – to my mother, finally.
01:49
She kept saying “When are you getting married?”,
01:51
so I just wrote this letter to this awesome woman
01:54
and told her that I’m gay.
01:56
– The first truly gay experience I had was
02:01
in the 7th grade.
02:03
in Arkansas
02:04
and a new guy had moved to town
02:08
and he was just the cutest guy
02:10
and one night he came over to the house for a sleepover
02:14
and I asked him what it was like kissing the girls
02:18
and he said ‘Here, let me show you’.
02:20
– All right, praise the lord.
02:22
– And I came out in May of 1960.
02:25
– Oh, my God.
02:26
– [Producer] The whole month?
02:29
– It was probably in San Francisco, so yes…
02:31
– It was a year-long celebration.
02:33
– My coming out was totally planned.
02:36
I got a fake library card
02:38
and I checked out books on homosexuality,
02:41
so I could find out terms back then like “trade”,
02:44
and “butch”
02:45
and “queen”.
02:46
I always knew I was gay
02:48
and I didn’t want anybody to break my secret
02:53
because in 1960, if they found out you were gay…
02:57
I mean, kids today talk about coming out.
03:00
When I came out, you didn’t say a word about it
03:03
and if I would’ve told anyone I was gay,
03:06
that would be the end of me.
03:07
– [Producer] Did anyone ever react negatively?
03:09
– Before coming out, my dad was a policeman in my hometown
03:14
and I fall in love
03:16
and I’d written someone a letter
03:18
and he threatened to kill me.
03:20
Um…
03:21
And it hurt
03:23
so much that my dad would actually…
03:25
And I knew that he would do it if he found out
03:26
that I was a queer,
03:28
but I butched it up and go
03:29
“This isn’t even my handwriting,
03:30
why do you think I would do something like this?”.
03:32
You know, it was scary.
03:34
Hearing that from your parent…
03:35
He was adamant about that and that hurt.
03:38
– And my dad was always trying to prove I was gay.
03:42
Here I was, trying to be just a regular guy
03:46
and he was literally out to get me.
03:48
It wasn’t to support and say
03:50
“Bill, that’s okay, you’re gonna be fine.”
03:53
He ostracized me.
03:54
– Yeah.
03:55
– [Producer] Do you wanna talk about your family?
03:56
– Well, I never said to my mom
03:59
or to my two brothers I’m gay,
04:02
but over time it was very clear,
04:05
they all knew who I was and they all accepted who I was.
04:09
– Yeah.
04:10
‘Cause you’re still the same person.
04:12
– Yeah.
04:13
– I’ve always wanted to be treated like a person,
04:15
not “Oh, he’s gay” or that,
04:17
I wanted to be a people.
04:19
– [Producer] When did coming out become a thing?
04:21
– It started in the ’70s
04:23
and then in the ’80s everybody came out,
04:25
even the people from the Midwest,
04:27
it was okay all of the sudden to be gay.
04:30
– [Producer] Is coming out important?
04:30
– Of course.
04:31
– Absolutely.
04:32
– Yes.
04:33
I think it’s very important that everyone
04:35
accept who they are.
04:37
That’s the only way you can be honest with the world.
04:42
– [Producer] Are there any other coming out experiences
04:44
you wanna share?
04:44
(sighs)
04:45
– You only come out once.
04:47
– [Producer] Well, you can come out to each person.
04:48
– Oh, coming out to people.
04:50
I would’ve had a very boring life if I hadn’t come out.
04:54
– I’m glad I was able to.
04:55
– Totally.
04:56
– These kids are so blessed to have this.
04:59
I mean, I was blessed because I’ve heard stories
05:01
from people older than me.
05:02
Everybody has helped everybody along the way.
05:05
– [Producer] What’s the best part about being out?
05:07
– The best to me is being out.
05:08
– And not losing friends.
05:10
– The people you meet during your life.
05:13
There’s a certain kindredness with others that are gay.
05:18
– [Producer] What do you have to say to anyone thinking
05:20
about coming out?
05:21
– Go for it.
05:22
– I say do it in your own time.
05:23
– It’s not as frightening as you may think.
05:26
– In fact, it’s quite pleasurable.
05:28
– In many ways.
◊♦◊
Have you read the original anthology that was the catalyst for The Good Men Project? Buy here: The Good Men Project: Real Stories from the Front Lines of Modern Manhood
◊♦◊
Talk to you soon.
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