Is porn culture crippling society by confusing our notions of sexuality?
One of my best friends from high school hasn’t had a relationship for years because he fell into a porn-hole. He has diminished his participation with the world more each year so that now he’s seldom seen or mentioned by our mutual friends. Before, the guy was super intelligent, fun, and always had girlfriends.
I went to see him recently and it felt like I was crawling into a hoarder’s basement, creepy and dark. He didn’t want to go out or do anything. He chose to stay home to play video games and openly admitted to generally watching porn all night. I suspect that there’s maybe millions of porn zombies out there just like him, seemingly unaware, or concerned, of being reclusive and socially unplugged.
Has humanity evolved from being in a group dynamic? For eons we have banded together for social connection and survival against hardships, threats, and disease. Love and connection are still celebrated in our cultural traditions, evidenced in our songs, films, and literature. But has this bonding character trait become an evolutionary remnant, one that we are now free to discard? I do not believe so.
Recent societal history has shown that some of our more powerful and inspirational civil movements have been inspired by individuals—including Mahatma Gandhi, Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Margaret Mead—expressing their intention for humanity to change towards bonding together with more harmony, respect, and unity. The messages of these leaders struck powerful chords of memory deep within the masses that led us towards a greater unification.
A single individual has enormous potential to change the world. We can only wonder at our potential, what we could achieve if our physical and psychological limitations were removed. But, sadly, life does dish out plenty of limiting difficulties. What I rage against are any limitations that are methodically inserted into our lives.
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“Sex sells.” This tired cliché has been the mantra of corporate advertising for the last several decades. It’s been implemented to sway buyers or investors in almost every industry. But it’s poignant. Consider that advertisers and media groups have performed considerable market studies to determine the best methods of capturing buyer attention. Consider also that cliché almost always holds roots in truth. Sexuality is unquestionably effective in capturing, even manipulating, our thoughts and actions.
The stupor effect of watching pornography, combined with the solitary tendency of porn users, is socially crippling. It holds the potential to destroy relationships, families, even the desire to create new relationships or families. It divides and conquers, all the while raking in billions of dollars worldwide. It can’t be assumed that the control and manipulation was intended, but it’s a sad reality of the industry.
I’m outraged considering that my psychology and physiology may have been altered and made docile by design, by the saturation of sex and violence into our media mind-streams. I think of my old buddy, who seems lobotomized, and what aspirations of his may have been undermined and stripped from his view.
Then I think of everyone else whose ambitions have been similarly extinguished. I think of the millions of people who seem to be more interested in sexual impulses than social well being, than the deteriorating environment, than the collapse of their civil liberties and financial security. Our society is in shambles but so many of us are distracted, many with lustful fascinations. I feel like there are sedatives in the drinking water.
This media induced sex-drive has ramped up into a near riotous frenzy. There is a growing demand for promiscuous sex despite soaring STD pandemics, many of which render the use of condoms ineffectual. I argue that this hyper-libido is not a product of our true natures. I believe that it’s manipulated and coerced, that it holds agency, that it is extracted out from the subdued masses.
I feel that society, in varying degrees, has become addicted to the ever-growing need for seduction. When this addiction is confronted openly, growling masses respond that their sexual needs are not being honored, even suggesting that their rights—or vices—have been curtailed. I recently read reports of prisoners filing legal suits demanding that they receive pornography while behind bars, one inmate saying that the lack of pornography violates his constitutional rights! His is a voice of entitlement and addiction.
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Sexuality has always had its place in modern life. It is fun and pleasurable, of course, but shouldn’t it be balanced—even counteracted—if it means maintaining a healthy lifestyle and social connectivity?
Don’t get me wrong. I love sex. No, I love real sex, relational sex, not the hyped-up, artificial, commercialized sleaze that saturates and derails so many people’s minds. But I also know that an important distinction exists between sexuality and sex itself.
In many indigenous tribes around the world, which today seem to only exist in archived film footage, nudity is commonplace and natural. There doesn’t seem to be any lust present in the films that I’ve seen, remote villages I’ve visited, or anthropological studies I’ve read about. This reaffirms for me that sex, as reproduction, is simply a natural part of an organic lifestyle, and has been for a long, long time. This leads me to believe that healthy human sexuality, in its natural state, is balanced and passive.
But that is not the sexuality of today—which is, “Lust Rules!”
—Photo NeoGaboX/Flickr
great point.
“… I love real sex, relational sex, not the hyped-up, artificial, commercialized sleaze that saturates and derails so many people’s minds. But I also know that an important distinction exists between sexuality and sex itself. In many indigenous tribes around the world, which today seem to only exist in archived film footage, nudity is commonplace and natural. There doesn’t seem to be any lust present in the films that I’ve seen, remote villages I’ve visited, or anthropological studies I’ve read about. This reaffirms for me that sex, as reproduction, is simply a natural part of an organic lifestyle, and has… Read more »
This is what I’ve identified from this thread as well as others, and I will state this as generally as possible: -there is a point of view from some people saying that porn has been BAD for them (in some way or another); – there is a point of view of other people saying that porn has been GOOD for them (in some way or another); – both are valid points of view; – there is not a true and false; – the commenter’s perspectives, on both sides, have been based on their personal experiences, not science or theory; –… Read more »
Michael sez: This is what I’ve identified from this thread as well as others, and I will state this as generally as possible: -there is a point of view from some people saying that porn has been BAD for them (in some way or another); – there is a point of view of other people saying that porn has been GOOD for them (in some way or another); There’s a third point of view, Michael, that’s shared by me and Julie (at least I think Julie feels this way), which is that porn is neither necessarily good nor bad and… Read more »
Michael- loved your piece- There is no need to provide anything these doubting posters ask for. Colin was EXHIBIT A. ‘Nuff said. If not enough, then ya gotta tell me something– seriously, man- how the heck did you let that guy post a denouncement of sex addiction by Annie Sprinke and not have him ordered off the island for even posting that? To the incessant poster here, who seems to know everything about absolutely everything- Annie Sprinkle is a porn star, porn film producer, ex-stripper, ex-prostitute. Her films include: Teenage Deviant and Inside Annie Sprinkle which was the 2nd-highest grossing… Read more »
Typo- Meant to say Annie’s laughing all the way to the bank with the WANKER’S money who put her through school.
I have no idea why my comment was eliminated here. I’m hoping that it was because we’ve overrun the comment bondaries for this topic, or something. I find your comments incredibly nasty, Jonathan. If I were to make the same sort of cmment about, say, Marnia Robinson, I would surely be censored. In fact, I DID make a comment – not even half as offensive as yours – and DID get censored for it. So it’s amazing to me that your comments have not been cut here. (Just a question to the GMPM censor who apparently finds Jonathan’s statements perfectly… Read more »
Michael, I have to say, you were bested (is that even a word) at every turn. You were asked to provide proof of your theory and have utterly failed to do so.
I am sorry but you have pretty lost all credibility on this issue. Anyone who hints at banning someone who has the gaul to ask for proof of a theory really should perhaps look at another line of work.
And back patting really doesn’t help
Lost credibility? Really? The article I wrote is an opinion piece. Opinion. This is not scientific journalism or academia here. You’re free to disagree with my opinion but to me, this isn’t about credible vs. not credible. Dissenters can google for what they’re looking for, AND take note that there are plenty of other articles posting plenty of good links. That none of those links passes muster with those demanding data should tell you something. Look them up yourself. Also, if someone demands data, that doesn’t mean I have to post it- As pointed out elsewhere on this thread, the… Read more »
What an absolute cop out.
I will say it one more time: The plural of anecdote is not fact
Janet- You are re-petty-ing yourself. I will say this one more time as I did below, do a search for “porn addiction” and see if anything comes up. I just got 9,280,000 on google. Try and debunk all of that. Cya
And when you’re done with that, google “vaccines cause autism” and deal with all that Solid Science too.
Copyleft- You can be an amateur magician all you want. Porn supporters like yourself practice denial and “Magical Elephantism”, which makes Elephants disappear from the room no matter how big they are, simply because they tell the audience that “It’s gone”. Except that they are the only ones who don’t see it. Others still sees the Elephant, and smell the excrement. Good luck and keep practicing.
There are a billion and a half hits for “God” on Google. Does this meat that God must likewise exist too, Michael?
Michael- Great article, thanks for writing it. It showed heart which I noticed was the missing element from the majority of commenters on your story. who are pretty strongly into arguing for their porn. I know plenty of the zombies you’re referring to; I’m kind of surprised you only know one. Maybe that speaks to your point about how falling into the porn hole tends to happen in secret. Exactly. No one wants to talk about it and as you pointed out, there aren’t always outer signs to alert others. I do have one piece of advice, however. Dude- get… Read more »
Jordan- Superb suggestions and advice! I wish that your input was around during the main flow of this discussion. And I do know of many people who are afflicted with this compulsion, or addiction, beyond their ability to stop on their own but due to the temperature of the discussion I was not feeling safe in mentioning that. What I find discouraging is that those who have commented towards accepting that there is a rising problem, a fire burning down the town, have never at all been suggesting that porn be banned. We have been trying to educate, but because… Read more »
Here’s a little something for your consideration Colin.
Have a gander and consider…
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/research-units/iset/projects/esrc-migrant-workers.cfm
I want to state that the only posts that have felt even partially “unsafe” were the super sarcastic ones by Thaddeus. I don’t think it makes the venue unsafe at all to have this particular kind of dialogue. Or if you think it does, then I’d ask you to say the same thing Aph, whose tone was pretty self righteous and occasionally patronizing, or Lili for that matter. If T’s a troll then so are they. I think he’s well met your questions and offered up good questions of his own. I realize this topic is intensely fraught, but if… Read more »
Julie- I hear you. It is truly unfortunate that the common courtesy that would (hopefully) prevail if we were all sitting around a big table is not adhered to. Then we could share and listen without attacks. There has been some difficult language expressed, unfortunately. But I believe that if someone has something to share but they see that there’s a maelstrom underway, then many people would back away. I sure have. And that is hurting the whole reason for doing this. There are commenting policies that have been ignored by some people. As to your comment, I sure do… Read more »
May I inquire…you say this: As I’ve said, I don’t even want to be discussing porn. It is a symptom of deeper issues but it is the easiest to see so it takes the heat.
Then why write this article about porn? Why not write about the deeper issues? Truly curious, not trying to be provocative here. The article you wrote was about porn and turning into zombies from it. I’m out for most of the night. Thank you Thaddeus, Michael, Lill and Aph and more for the fierce debate and dialogue.
Julie, and others- I wrote this article because I had strong feelings around the natural forms and feelings of human sexuality but I was confused about how these were not expressed in today’s world. Instead, I see lust and lechery where, in my mind, I want to see sensuality and harmony. I realize that others may want the sexual standard of the day and I give it to them. I never tried to take it away, I was only writing on what I see in the world. I do see problems resulting from the modern times and I guess that… Read more »
I’m pretty tired and burned out. My thought is, for whatever it is worth, is that there have always been “natural” forms of sex and sex that is layered with society and cultural meaning. I’m not sure one is any more real than the other. I also bet there have always been concurrent expressions of sensuality and harmony alongside lust and lechery from time immemorial. I see expressions of sensuality in my daily life, couples holding hands, a cute duo sitting on each other’s lap today at the mall. It’s maybe not on tv and movies (porn) but it’s there.… Read more »
So how ’bout dem Packers, Michael? 😀
I’ll just say that I decided to be rabelasian as a direct response to the wild commentary coming from Aph. Hell, if someone’s going to set up shop and start dishing on how everyone who disagrees with her is this and that and blinded by this and that and we just don’t understand gender and how could someone who understood gender EVER work with prostitutes who transmit STDs and yadayadayada… Well, I just felt “hell, if that’s the way this conversation is going to go, why not just roll with it?” Thus the sarcastic and rabelasian commentary (although I do… Read more »
Very interesting suggestion, Thaddeus.
^change “use porn” to “enjoy porn”. One of the insidious effects of this debate is how the anti-pr0n faction are creating a whole newspeak to discuss porn.
At least the phrasing isn’t “do porn” which is really associated with drug use.
Correct. You gotta be careful with how these little moral judgements creep into the language.
People-porn does not equate to sex. Sex will always be around. lust will always be around. But, the way we frame sex and lust will constantly shift and change. Of course porn is going to be around for a while because we unfortunatley couple it with lust, and it is the only mainstream image of sex that we have. However, our ideas towards sex and the image of sex will eventually become more liberated and less-rigid than it is now. Hopefully, with literacy and education, people will understand what feminism ACTUALLY is, and see how it is one of the… Read more »
I agree with you Aph. There are many arguments around porn use but many seem to sway far away of the basic numbing (the zombie effect) that acts like a drug. I believe that for many people who play the porn-game that these people get hooked, so to speak, on the narcotic daze that they slip into. If there’s a little anxiety in your life, numb out. If you’re have an argument, numb out. Nicotine is much the same way I believe. Alcohol surely is along with many other drugs. The quality of porn that makes it so insidious is… Read more »
The problem here Michael is that that “basic numbing effect” you attribute to porn has not been shown to be active among the general population, but only among people who are addictive. What you’re saying is that sugar is generally bad because it hurts epileptics. I think it’s not necessarily a good thing, nor a bad thing, but that it can indeed have bad effects on a certain small minority of the population. The problem is that you guys seem to be wanting to expand that small minority into a general state for all humanity. I use porn ocassionaly. I’d… Read more »
Blanchette- Why is it that you bunch me up, and bunch anyone up, into groups by saying hyperbolic crap like, “The problem is that you guys seem to be wanting to expand that small minority into a general state for all humanity.” Come on, man! Do you want to have a conversation that invites various opinions or do you want, or need, to squat on top of the discussion throwing mud around so your opinion looks cleaner? I want to discuss important aspects of our society that create these deep, 21st century stresses. Porn is only a symptom, along with… Read more »
OK, Michael, then explain it to me: isn’t your main point that porn is GENERALLY dangerous? I mean, that seems to me to be the general thrust of your article. Yes, you think other things are dangerous, too, but porn is definitely one of them. Or are you now saying that porn only affects a small minority of people in the way that you describe? As for indigenous sexuality, again, it was definitely described in no uncertain terms by priests and pastors as being “evil” because it didn’t play by the same rule book as Christianity. But that doesn’t mean… Read more »
Dear Michael, I find it ironic that you’re accusing me of not wanting to hear other viewpoints when, from the beginning of this discussion, you’ve been telling me that my opinions are “inappropriate” and indirecty suggesting that I should be banned for making them. I have not called for anyone’s censorship. I have engaged with everyone’s viewpoint. Yeah, I’m writing a lot, but that’s because this topic and its colateral issues (particularly sex work) are important to me and my writing doesn’t prevent ANYONE from expressing their opinions. This isn’t a dining room conversation: your voice doesn’t get drowned out… Read more »
Michael – maybe you can help the discussion by providing some foundation: 1) How prevalent is this porn addiction among the general porn using population? Is it 1%, 5%, 50% of the porn using population? We can’t simply use the traffic on “Your Porn on the Brain” website, as I’m sure you would agree, that there is some hefty selection bias in such a sample, and that we could not use it to extrapolate to the general population. 2) Please elaborate on whether you believe Internet porn use is “associated” with, or is a “cause of” some of these receptor… Read more »
Hello Elissa- I’m tapping this out on my phone since I’m at work do going through where anything was previously posted is not too possible, or research and essay. Please excuse any type-o’s. I’d like to propose that maybe you or others could do the reverse? Can you provide data that says that porn is not damaging to some aspects of society, that there is no addiction? Whenever other writers submit anything on porn addiction it gets attacked by the “riotous frenzy” but there’s never been reversed science to prove otherwise. I personally want to discuss societal dis-ease, which pornography… Read more »
Michael, just a point of logic here: NO ONE can prove a negative. It is impossible.
Science works by testing hypotheses. You cannot test a negative hypothesis because if something DOESN’T exist there’s no proof for it not existing.
So asking Elissa to prove that porn is not damaging and there is no addiction is just plain silly.
This issue does exist, as Colin presented to launch this thread. That was a text book example of denial and abuse and feeling minimized. These things can’t and won’t be blamed on porn but that was merely a solution for his anxieties, which was over used and fits into the process addiction models, right in there with gambling, shopping and others. What complicates porn is the highly charged brain chemicals like dopemine that the body craves. That can get into a loop to where the body craves the chemical drug more than it needs the distraction from anxiety. In my… Read more »
Dopamine is a natuyral chemical your b ody produces. You need it to survive as a human being. Where does it become “excessive” in your opinion, Michael? Also, neither you nor I are competent to say that Colin is a “textbook example” of anything, given that even if we HAD read the textbooks (which we haven’t), that kind of diagnosis can’t be made based on someone’s posts over the internet. Finally, the “process addiction model” you mention says the brain is diseased and THEN it gets obsessed, not that the brain is obsessed, then it becomes diseased. This is right… Read more »
Why not both of you? Yours is the article that holds the addiction theory and Elissa asked for some very good information which could deepen the discussion. I think it’s also fair for her, and folks like Thaddeus to continue to offer the reverse information.
Hello Julie- I’m on my phone, at work, losing posts due to refresh and have poor reception. Not that I’m trying to squeeze out of anything. This is not a new debate at GMP. There has been an awful lot of science brought into discussion but it’s new science do hasn’t gone around the bases yet, so to speak, do it tends to get dismissed by defenders, who often are not listening to the pov the the writer. My point is the zombie culture primarily and how we can get back into a more fulfilling destiny. My point is that… Read more »
I get that. I think the question I’m most interested in is: Is the brain already primed for addiction (all it needs is a triggering substance), or is the substance what causes the addiction. I’m most inclined (being as I am totally a layperson on this matter), to believe that the brain chemistry is probably already primed for OCD/Addiction disorders and the substance is simply found along the way. Which is not to say that some substances if taken in high enough doses (heroin, nicotine) can’t shift the chemistry, but that there are a lot of folks out there who… Read more »
I agree Julie. These are difficult times. I am a construction guy and not a scientist, but I believe that every creature or upper mammals anyway, have a need for nurture. We need to sooth our woes, pains and fears. You’re a mother so I know you’re rolling you’re eyes here. But many people are not given the nurturing they need, or needed in their childhoods. This can create self soothing patterns and dissociative patterns that wire us for addictions. I believe that addiction is all basically the overuse or abuse of the self-soothing tendencies inherent in many species.
Not rolling my eyes at all, Michael. Everyone needs acceptance, touch and love.
Exactly, either real or artificial if real doesn’t exist. I believe that mammals have been studied in depth by how the little baby monkeys, alone and distressed, would cling to a rag doll replica of a mother rather than go to food. I believe that they may have starved themselves due to not leaving the doll. We humans cling to things in a likewise manner. And my comment on rolling eyes was more of a -duh, type of obviously. Anyone who has had kids knows how we need to be nurtured.
The poroblem with the argument that there are “measurable chemical patterns and flow levels associated with porn” is that, so far, I haven’t seen any serious, reproducible, research which actually shows that, Michael. And I’ve asked for links to that sort of research again and again. So you say there’s research out there showing this? Bring it up! I’d love to see it. 1 to 3 papers, so we can have a nice discussion, not a laundry list of 40 links from an anti-porn site, cut and pasted, where over half the material is simply abstracts or pop media takes… Read more »
Blanchette- I can’t do research right now. Maybe others can step in for, some of the “you guys” that you’re bunching me in with. And as was said earlier in the thread in regards to research, cigarettes were prescribed by doctors to treat asthma. That was true for an older friend of mine when he was14 year old. That’s obviously not done today. Much research takes years of study and Internet porn hasn’t been studied very long. And if it does make it into the ASDM (or whatever) manuals then it would flood and bankrupt the system, in my opinion.… Read more »
I understand that you’re at work, Michael. Whenever it’s conveniet for you to look this stuff up and link it is fine by me. I doubt anyone else will take up my challenge, however, which is why I’m hopping – in the name of open debate and intelligent discussion – that you’ll try. LiliBee and Terre believe that actually offering up the studies their affirmations are supposedly based upon would somehow oppress them (which is odd, seeing as how they are the ones who are always so quick to name drop science when they are making their pitch to laymen).… Read more »
Blanchette- Comparing the history of tobacco science to the brain-on-porn science is unequal due to the decades of science that has accumulated from the tobacco research. It wasn’t until hoards were falling over dead from lung disease that it was taken seriously. Internet porn hasn’t been around too long by comparison, and hence the addictive quality of it became evident even later. Not to use this as an excuse but something that could be considered. Science does exist, even from people with PH.D’s but still their conclusions get dismissed some. Next issue is the manner of which you phrase the… Read more »
Sorry, Michael, but you’re simply wrong: scientists have been trying to affirm that porn causes health problems since the late 19th century. And again, it’s not a question of whether or not people “take it seriously”: the SCIENCE for the smoking debate was there and it was very good DECADES before people started taking it seriously. If you want to continue with your “porn = smoking” metaphor, then it is not unreasonable for you to show us the science now. Science, I must point out, that you, Lili Bee, Marnia Robonson and Terre have all affirmed exists and is quite… Read more »
Note that since the beginning of this discussion, I have asked several of the anti-porn people if they would please give us three links to the scientific research that they consider to be the most impressive support for their thesis. The reactions to this so far have been pretty illogical. One has been, basically, “I’m not going to do that because then you’ll pick the science apart”, which is an off-hand admission that the science isn’t very good to begin with. The second is “No, you prove the counterhypothesis first by logically proving a negative,” something which can’t be done.… Read more »
Thanks Michael – I believe that prevalence matters. We have a near monthly article on this site discussing this topic of porn addiction, and I’m of mind that there should be a somewhat proportional coverage that holds a relation to prevalence, otherwise, we’re bordering on advocacy and demand generation. For example – pica is an uncontrollable desire to consume non-food items (glass, coins, etc), though the prevalence borders on near insignificance. I would not expect to see a monthly article on GMP with regards to pica. And I’m not one of those that believe that porn has no deleterious effects,… Read more »
Me…? Accuse someone of being determinist? Perish the thought! 😀 😀 😀 😀
It should be pointed out, however, regarding demand generation that most of the people banging the anti-porn drum who write on this site either have books and writing careers they need to promote or actually sell anti-porn counselling services.
So yeah. “Demand generation” is definitely an issue TGMPM should be wary of when it comes to anti-porn articles.
Thank you Elissa, for expressing this so concisely. I would like to add that if we, as a population, were in a big room that holds 7 billion, and hands were raised to count how many people feel that they have an abusive compulsion for porn, I believe that the count tally should become a statistic that has weight, whether or not science exists to back them up, they have declared that they have a problem. The personal experience seems to be kept privately in the closet and not broadcast for researchable surveys. Even bringing up Colin again (who is… Read more »
Michael, there’s a problem with counting hands thing you want to do: your definition of “compulsion” is very wide and not at all shared by everyone. Even the majority. Colin’s situation is his own and neither you nor anyone else is capable of judging whether he’s being “compulsive” over the internet. The guy admits to masturbating 3-8 times a day. That’s WELL within the range of normality for this sort of thing (again, going by one of the studies linked on Marnia’s site, as well as people like Kinsey), but here you’re all ready to label him, essentially, mentally ill… Read more »
“Can you provide data that says that porn is not damaging to some aspects of society, that there is no addiction? Whenever other writers submit anything on porn addiction it gets attacked by the “riotous frenzy” but there’s never been reversed science to prove otherwise.” Very impassioned, provocative response, but somewhat beside the point. If someone is calling attention to some sort of epidemic that needs to be dealt with (and presumably needs funding to fight…) then the burden is on the alarm-sounders to show their evidence. Otherwise, if we are simply supposed to believe every warning by everyone about… Read more »
WOT- I asked for some sort of documentation for evidence that the effects of porn on the brain are not detrimental simply to reverse the scenario being created by people who do not want to admit it, I assume like yourself. Without evidence, holding your argument is only a group of people saying so, and that doesn’t weigh very much. At the very least, there has been quite a lot of information posted on GMP to support claims made by people on the negative-side of porn and I’m not so much in that camp as wanting to go deeper into… Read more »
Yeah, but that’s not how science works, Michael. You need to give us testable hypothesis. “Porn viewing causes addiction” is a testable hypothesis. “Porn viewing does not cause addiction” is NOT a testable hypothesis. What sort of evidence can one raise for a negative statement like that? It’s not scientifically possible, under any stretch of the imagination. Furthermore, the anti-porn crowd doesn’t even say they have a hypothesis: they say they have they are in the possession of solid data which confirms their theory as scientifically proven FACT. All we are asking, Michael, is “Where’s the beef?” You and every… Read more »
Blanchette- You prove your point by dismissing anything that comes between your opinion. And without proven science of your own all that you have is opinion. Are you paid for debunking this topic? I’ve seen you all over popular blogs doing this same thing as you do here. I do not know of any other PH.D types who have so much free time. That’s not a dis it’s a valid question. You’re suspect. I have my opinion and I am allowed that and I can share that in an open discussion such as this. For you to dismiss any opposing… Read more »
Michael, so far NOTHING has been given for me to dismiss other than people’s unfounded statements and suppositions about porn. How can I dismiss what hasn’t been presented? And, once again, here you are trying to shut me up and censor me while at the same time complaining that I’m somehow depriving you of your right to have an opinion. I’m totally happy you have an opinion Michael and I support your right to express it. I just DISAGREE with your opinion. And that is apparently enough for you to start calling me names, such as troll. As for PhD-types… Read more »
Blanchette- My point is that you deride the concepts of others. This is a public forum, not a doctoral review board. I’ve been sharing my concepts and you squat on the thread and squash down everything anyone says that opposes you. And I said that is what a Troll does, yes it is. Your aggression has made the open forums less safe to share concepts and ideas. That threatens and inhibits free conversation, thereby ruining the open forum. Read the commenting policies please! There’s now well over 250 comments on this post and you have sent in most of them.… Read more »
Michael, debunking the unsupported claims of others is not deriding their concepts. Have I called you a fool or an idiot or whatnot? No. Have I even said your claims were foolish? No. All I have said – repeatedly – is that your theory is so far unsupported by the scientific evidence and I would like to see the evidence, please, that you claim is out there. That is not derision. Asking for a certain minimal level of logic and proof in a debate is hardly calling for a “doctoral review board” either, Michael. Once again, I’m simply asking you… Read more »
I think this article completely ignores the fact that the majority of people who become *porn zombies* already had something wrong with them to begin with. As a society we tend to blame our problems on things that have nothing to do with the source of the problem itself. For instance video games have been targeted as something that makes people more violent and likely to commit such things in real life… but the majority of those people already had problems long before the video game itself even entered the picture. We live in what is considered by some as… Read more »
Thanks for the correction…thats what I should have written. Its ok to disagree.
Annaleisha– One of my absolute favorite authors on the subject of brain science/ neuroplasticity is Dr. Norman Doidge. He is a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, researcher, and author. He is on the Research Faculty at Columbia University’s Center for Psychoanalytic Training and Research, in New York, and the University of Toronto’s Department of Psychiatry. In his New York Times bestselling book, The Brain That Changes Itself, specifically the chapter “Acquiring Tastes and Loves”, he explains the factors at work when viewing porn repeatedly- how it literally rewires the brain and often unwittingly takes men into directions they themselves had never planned on,… Read more »
Well, I see that reading most of these comments is a waste of time.
Good luck Colin. You’ll need it.
I’m so out of here.
Peace.
I feel that porn is something that can often take people to a place that is uncomfortable, it’s a slippery slope. Those who rely on porn will have problems in other areas of life, it’s a shame considering it is avoidable. I have been doing some reading on this area and it seems as if it is a much bigger problem than one would imagine. The sort of people affected aren’t simply horny young people. I don’t think people realise that when you allow porn (or anything else) to interfere with your day-day living…it shows that you could be addicted.… Read more »
Sure, Annaleisha, but that definition of porn only makes it congruent with life. Life can often take people to a place that’s uncomfortable. I, for one, don’t happen to think personal comfort is necessarily a good thing. As for addiction… According to the medical definition plastered all over the anti-pr0n blogs, addiction IS a biochemical change to your brain, it doesn’t CAUSE a biochemical change to your brain. In other words, porn doesn’t change your brain and then you become addicted: your brain is placed out of whack, it is placed in an addictive state (and they are still not… Read more »
Exceseive porn use is just one example of how a person with the right combination of emotional vulnerabilities and life circumstances can fall down a black hole. Excessive eating, excessive gambling, substance abuse, hoarding behaviors, anorexia/bulimia, compulsive self injury, etc. are all ways of numbing emotional pain. I am not anti-porn, anti-gambling, anti-food, anti-exercise or anti-couponing but all of those things can become a problem for some people. I know smart, successful people who fell into a hell of alcohol and became near recluses, shadows of their former selves. It’s always a tragedy to see it happen. Recognizing that porn… Read more »
Lovely point.
Funny. Here in Brazil we’re more worried about getting shot by stray bullets.
i think that’s a concern for most in many cities in the US as well
No, Jill….porn is not destructive, it’s puritanism. Don’t you see all of us here speaking about porn in our hair shirts and chastity belts while holding a Bible between our knees so we don’t act on any impure thoughts?
I really wish these conversations were happening in a room where people could pause, ask questions and maybe limit the back and forth sarcasm. All I see here are arrows (some very well intentioned and intelligent arrows, but many sarcastic and mean ones too) zinging past each other with no chance for anyone to actually clarify and understand. Watching this, I see two viewpoints that each person believes in very strongly, and is exceptionally invested in. Each are citing types of evidence, some feeling based, some data based. I think Thaddeus’ points (when he isn’t being Rabelasian-I like bawdy humor,… Read more »
That’s a fair point, Julie. Online, at least, it seems that much of radical/gender feminism is devoted to “stamping out” porn and male lust, which is simply an impossibility. And emotions quickly get heated on all sides.
[Shrugs] Oddly enough, as I mentioned above, I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with being a neo-puritan or even in doing the sort of work Lil and Terre do. Where I’m cautious is when they try to apply the insights gained working with a very limited and self-selected population to the world in general. It would be as if I were to say “Hey, prostitution seems to be working for the people I’m interviewing, so I suggest everyone go out there and start selling sex!” I’m well aware that my findings are limited in their aplicability to the world… Read more »
That’s the both/and I’m talking about. I think you raise very reasonable points and I’d love to sit with both of you and have a damn long conversation. 🙂
Hey Mike- good you wrote this. Right on. I’m currently in recovery from porn addiction & its a bitch I can tell you. Next time you write another article like this, throw the trolls off your article- they’re annoying as hell. let them read Maxim if they’re so sure porn is wonderful. LOL. There is freedom from slavery to porn but you gotta ID it, then get help. It’s free. And read anything by Patrick Carnes. Best to your buddy in the basement, Mike- hope he gets help. And Colin too….hey Colin I heard where you live is a bachelors… Read more »
Michael you made my whole day. No, make that my week! Shared this with all my girlfriends who, like me, have already lost their husbands to this disease. We don’t need proof- our LIVES are proof. Hullo, out there, we ARE the evidence, even though you want statistics. Most of us are very ashamed of this habit that goes unchecked in society because no one’s really telling the truth. So you are really brave. Thank you so very much. More fan-mail coming soon! Care to share your phone number? Some of us are LEAVING our men to their porn holes… Read more »
The plural of anecdote is not fact
Absolutely correct Janet- These are opinions based on personal experience. Try doing a search for porn addiction, see if anything comes up.. Do you have any other opinions? Are you bringing anything to ‘disprove’ someones experience?
The plural of anecdotes? How many bodies do you need to see under the bridge before evidence becomes fact? Those who nay-say global warming doesn’t exist (and there are many) doesn’t mean it does not exist. Then again, for those unwilling to allow evidence of addiction into the discussion, no facts, evidence, or observations count anyway. Those of us who live with this day in and day out are growing in numbers. Try and debunk us! You cannot suppress what is a growing movement and OWS should be evidence enough of what happens when enough people call bullshit. And we’re… Read more »
Can we please see evidence that even ONE person has died from so-called “porn addiction”, Rachel?
Rachel says: “The plural of anecdotes? How many bodies do you need to see under the bridge before evidence becomes fact? Those who nay-say global warming doesn’t exist (and there are many) doesn’t mean it does not exist.” Rachel, it doesn’t work the other way either. Claiming something does exist (in huge numbers) doesn’t prove it exists (in the kinds of numbers that the “sky is falling” proponents claim it is) either. Recent history is full of catastrophes that never happened despite experts warnings. * Where’s all that global cooling? (yes before AGW many of the same scientists raised alarms… Read more »
Beats the heck out of spending time being whined at by a nagging shrew. MGTOW.
Copyleft–I like and understand a lot of your posts, but this seems a little extreme. What did your ‘shrew’ nag you about? Couples get into fights sometimes, as do friends and family–that’s a part of human interaction. If the nagging and fighting really gets that bad (especially if it’s coming only from one side, which is pretty rare in a relationship)…then break up and move on. You’re clearly not right for each other. You both are deserve to find someone who makes you happy. If you really prefer your hand to a blow job, looking at a woman’s ass while… Read more »
It was a response to Rachel’s typical shame & blame routine where feminists AGAIN demand apologies for male behavior. That’s not relevant to this site–or at least, it shouldn’t be. This is a place for MEN to discuss masculinity and solve MEN’s problems.
Radfem disapproval is not one of our problems. It’s one of theirs.
Aya says: If the nagging and fighting really gets that bad (especially if it’s coming only from one side, which is pretty rare in a relationship) Actually Aya, from studies I have been privy to women initiatie 80% of marital conflict. It’s funny because the other day I was watching “the big bang theory”. This is a show I really enjoy. In case you don’t know it’s a show similar to friends, but the group of friends are all doctorates in engineeers or applied physics/theroetical physics who are unabashed nerds. The loosely dubbed king of the nerd group is leonard… Read more »
Excessive/isolationist porn use is only one form of zombi-ism, as it is one Internet application. Ironically, social media is a form of zombi-ism, afflicting far more people than porn.
Technology is designed to, and usually does, solve problems or create efficiencies/conveniences. However, if mis-used/mis-applied it can also make human contact less or even unsatisfying. Some men use Internet porn to that effect, and some women use sex toys to that effect.
Social media CAN become another form of zombi-ism, and is for many people.
I see what you’re saying here Eric, and I agree. You stated this well.
“Social media CAN become another form of zombi-ism, and is for many people.” Agreed, and there are plenty of ways that highly social people become zombie-like, only our society doesn’t notice as much because they’re being social, which is supposed to be good for you, right? There are plenty of alcoholics who are the life of the party (or at least think they are). There are plenty of people who have no identity outside of their desire to party as much as possible, and people obsessed with doing everything to fit in perfectly with their peers. There are people who… Read more »
I try to refrain from ranting on this site, but the first section of this article pushed a lot of my buttons all at once. I’m defensive as an introvert, and easily offended by simplistic historical interpretations. Please spare me the handwringing about how we’ve lost our group dynamic as a species. It’s actually pretty elitist and even a little contradictory to talk about everyone joining together and then bring up a few Great Men and Women and contrast them with “the masses.” Margaret Mead’s quote about how change only comes from a small group of highly committed people is… Read more »
EXCELLENT point, WOT. I raised that same question earlier but the porn-bashing quickly took over and it got buried.
“Forming more interpersonal connections” sounds like something obviously good and unquestionably necessary… to an extrovert. To an introvert, such a prospect is depressing and exhausting, if not horrifying.
Privacy and silence are not sins; for many of us, they’re a blessing.
yeah..i seriously hope introversion is not some sick essentialist prerequisite for watching porn..or being a porn addict. Some people are introverted and actually do constructive things with their time…..like read…
True. I’m one of them.
Not that reading and porn are mutually exclusive….
As an extrovert on the MBPI, I take your point. Either introverts need to find some extroverted lovers to chase after them, find ways of recharging and make those connections (it can be done, I’m married to one), or accept that it’s less gendered how things are slanted and more about energy capacity), or deal with your alone time. I know many INFJs and INTJ’s who do like interpersonal connections. They have fewer and deeper ones for the most part. Being introverted doesn’t always mean you aren’t social, it means (as I understand it) you use your energy differently and… Read more »
That’s exactly what it means. Instead of a wide circle of light-contact friends and acquaintances, introverts prefer a few trusted ‘best friends” and little contact with anyone outside that circle.
Remember-I’m anti-sexist porn but pro-sex 🙂
It sounds to me that you’re whichever the way blows this week among your sectarian friends, Aph
Thaddeus-what I’m saying is pretty simple, however I’m just assuming that we’re not going to agree on this one-which is ok. I’m all for sex-not scripted sex. porn does not equal sex for me. I will always advertise and promote natural organic sex because of my own experiences. I used to watch porn and it made me feel insecure, and it was harder for me to cum in “real” life because of all the images in my head. Because I completely stopped watching it, my sex life has completely improved. It feels real and intimate. Before I was imitating lust,… Read more »
“Natural,organic sex…” Riiiiiiight…. So can I presume you’ll running around the mountains of Canada this week in the buff, boffing the mate of your choice behind a bush? Aph, there is nothing more cultural – and thus UNnatural – than sex. What you’re saying is “My form of sexual pleasure is superior and so I’m going to call it ‘natual’ and ‘organic’ because those are good, positive adjectives.” You sound like a T.V. commerical, Aph: “Since I stopped using Brand X porn, my sex life has improved 100%! It feels real and intimate!” Has it ever occurred to you that,… Read more »
I agree..haha..let’s blame porn. Where did I get the idea of trying to act like a stripper, wearing fishnet stocking..and flashing my breasts all the time? hhmm….You need to get into Ariel Levy. She wrote a book titled, “Female Chavuanist PIgs.” It’s a wonderful book and she actually talks about young women’s compulsion to constantly act out “girls gone wild” and strippers. I never had a liberated view of “lust” or “Sex” until I subtracted porn and television from my life. Here’s an interview on NPR with the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zdi4tfUtJk
Frankly, I’d rather blame The Little Mermaid. More girls watch that than porn, by a longshot.
Here is another quick interview with Noam Chomsky about porn..it’s pretty funny..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlRoaFTHuE&feature=related
Aph, do you perceive the possibility that someone male or female might find themselves able to achieve orgasm more easily because of erotica, porn or other visual stimuli? Or that they might find the ability to have better sex with a partner? Is that possible in your mind or do you believe it’s impossible.
I don’t know many people that watch porn and DON’T have orgasms. I’m sure that SOME people can watch porn and have orgasms with their partner. However, those who are addicted usually complain of their inability to have orgasms in “real” life because they can’t escape the images of porn, and their sex life is pretty dull. I think porn is damaging for many, not just sexually, but in their perceptions of other people..like women-or minorities. Porn’s depiction of certain ethnicities is more “animalistic” than others. Porn, much like television, is many men’s and women’s first introduction to sex..therefore their… Read more »
I dunno, but I suspect that we could look at the porn that other cultures have produced and see what that tells us. One things for sure: visuals of humans doing the nasty seem to have a basic, cross-cultural appeal and most porn seems to be precisely that. In fact, for me, most porn is just too damned boring and stilted. It’s too unreal. There’s no sense of human connection or fun in it. The Eutruscans supposedly had some spectacularly cool porn. I’d love to know more about their erotic culture. In fact, I’m thinking of making my post-doc “cross… Read more »
i will say, Thaddeus, that porn winds up mirroring that winner/loser model of dominance and aggression. Anti porn people see that dynamic in it and find it distasteful. I do too. Is it the action or the cultural attributes we layer on the action like a mask, is my question. In a world where we were highly collaborative, sharing empathtic communal creatures, would our porn mirror that? Would it be fun, funny and joyful? Would there be porn created by performers? Or would we create it ourselves as participants? Would prostitution be seen in the same ranks as therapy? Would… Read more »
Hey, I just wanted to know if anyone else is getting of on that haaaaaaaaaaaaawt photo of a woman licking someone’s lower belly, which leads off this piece.
I’ve been sitting here for hours, whacking off like a monkey with my deluxe-sized tub of K-Y jelly and calling up increasingly more extreme photos and videos on the internet, ever since that photo triggered my latent addiction.
I’m up to nuns and donkeys now and hope to get to The Human Centipede in a couple of hours.
Yeah, baby! 😀
C’mon, Aph! Dig up your rabbit! You know you want to! 😀
You’ve gone round the bend, Thaddeus 🙂
[Looks down at his lap]
Ya think?
oh Thaddeus. I will give Kudos to the author, Michael Carpenter, for this article, and for starting wonderful dialogue. I honestly have enjoyed this conversation so thank you to all of you for discussing this 🙂
Blanchette- This is the kind of crap that gets you bounced from threads. I’ve seen this from you several times now. I try to respect you and your opinions but when you run out of bantering partners you tend to devolve into derogatory and crude remarks like this. Please make an attempt to be taken seriously, and respectfully.
Sorry, Michael. I thought I was being hyperbolically humorous while pointing out a nice little contradiction here. I mean, you’re all about internet pr0n, right? Well, porn is in the eye of the beholder. If the “increasing desensitivity leads to porn addiction” thesis has any merit at all, then that image up there is dangerous! After all, it’s a visual, internet-distributed depiction of a sexual act. Supposedly, exposure to this can trigger peoples’ addictions and send them scampering across the net like bonobos in heat, looking for ever more “extreme” images. This, as far as I can tell, is the… Read more »
I have to say that’s a good point. It’s a piece about porn turning people into zombies. The image should probably be less porny and more scary, like a zombie. The image is sexy and provocative and, I”d say, designed to arouse. Whereas a Zombie would be designed to frighten.
Interesting.
I do not know if you are aware of the submitting policy for articles but writers allow editorial powers. This is the reason for the photo. I submitted a classic pic of the Sex Pistols for instance, and the pic that is posted is lips on skin. It’s their magazine and that’s ok. But thank you for acknowledging the crude comment issue. I see it as coming from a more juvenile perspective than having an educated discussion.
Alrighty..? On the other page, in the monkey cage topic, I’m asking a serious Q and would like a non-Rabelwhatever answer, if you could. I’d like to discuss something healing.
Oooh! Marvin Gaye! 😀
Totally misleading photo, too. It’s virtually impossible for a someone to do that and not streak the lipstick and not drool a little bit. At least, that’s what happens when I wear the lipstick in that position…. Why can’t porn be more realistic?….
Ya gotta wonder how they produced that photo. I mean, how long was the woman forced to hold that posiiton? Was she doing the photo shoot of her own free will or did the Mafia kidnap and enslave her and force her to kiss people’s asses, while they made big bucks distributing the resulting images on the internet?
(What’s sad is that somewhere out there, there are probably people nodding their heads thoughtfully right now.)
I mean, do we even know that it’s not a child being abused up there?
Thad that was soooooo unnecessary! Nothing positive comes from porn esp when it begins to affect your daily life… anywhoo….I was wondering where you had got to, since you no longer post on Abagonds blog I havent read anything of/by you.
Oh, I’m all over the place on race and gender blogs, Leisha, but only on the rare occasions when I get a day off or I’m sick, like today.
You want to tell these nice folks how I got banned on Abagond’s blog for outting a man who was stalking and harassing a young African-American college student because she was going out with white boys?
The story’s right there on my blog, if anyone wants to see it. You can see the header page there of that “nice” man’s YouTube channel if you like: http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/regarding-my-tiff-with-menelik-charles.html
Julie- This is a gender issue because porn frames gender in different ways. If you want to look at the effects of porn on an individual basis, then fine. Following that logic, there are no trends at all. However, I’m not looking at porn on the individual basis-I’m looking at porn on a cultural level. It has terrible ramifications for us and for our gender roles. The role of the male in porn is the gazer-the one who receives the performance. Most mainstream porn is actually geared towards heterosexual males. Porn frames women as the performers, the sexy strippers who… Read more »
So your problem is that porn lacks diversity? There’s only one style of porn and one model of relationships that it follows?
Wow, you really HAVEN’T seen any porn, have you? Maybe Women’s–I mean, GENDER Studies should include a few more audio-visual resources in the curriculum.
Copyleft! Thank you for advertising the major! We definitely need it! I think you’ve mentioned my major like 4 times already 🙂 Yes-not all pornography is sexist. However, mainstream porn, which is about 99% of it, is. No matter if the woman is black, asian, hispanic, or white, they all have the same “uniforms” on..long hair…big boobs..thong..high heels. Sex does not always look like this. We try to make it seem that way, but it is untrue.
Aph, I’m aware of the trends you are discussing. As a 42 year old feminist and humanist, with education in applied behavioral science, as well as a background in film and theater, I’m also aware of the dynamics at play. I’m not sure that the entire problem is sexual imagery, or the desire for it. I would go so far to posit that the reason our porn looks like it does has more to do with an increase in war like aggression, class divides due to economic issues, and the corporatization and commodification of well, everything over the last 30… Read more »
“I would go so far to posit that the reason our porn looks like it does has more to do with an increase in war like aggression, class divides due to economic issues, and the corporatization and commodification of well, everything over the last 30 years.”
Right on! Finally, someone who states the obvious.
We live in a sado-masochistic culture, obsessed with winners and losers, which believes might makes right.
But hey, it’s pr0n that’s screwing the kids up.
Read some Reich along with your Jung, maybe…?
I actually do agree with what you say Julie. You articulated it very well. I feel there are many elements to the reason as to why porn looks the way it looks. It is fast rough and hard. However, I feel that there maybe other reasons to explain why sexuality for women has become synonymous with the image of a stripper. I also don’t understand how our culture, looking like a police state, has anything to do with “sexy” for a woman being equated to a white woman with blonde hair, big boobs and high heels. I think our culture… Read more »
Funny how today’s anti-porn undergrad feminists will claim, out of one side of their mouths, that “pornographic sexuality disporportionately exploits women of color” and then claim, out of the other side of their mouths, that “sexy for a woman is equated to a white woman with blonde hair, big boobs”.
What’s a poor politically correct college boy to these days if he wants to spout the right sort of rhetoric in order to get laid?
where did i state that, “pornographic sexuality disproporationately exploits women of color?” I never stated that-however I do believe porn exploits ALL women, including women of color, even though the standard for women in porn is white. You are not understanding what I’m saying, and you’re making up things. Sexist porn exploits ALL women. I merely pointed out that white women is the standard for beauty in our culture-this is obvious. If you actually go on porn site categories..they always have categories for “asian women” “black women” “hispanic women”…but never “white women”…..because they are the standard. That’s all I was… Read more »
So you don’t believe that pornographic sexuality disproporationately exploits women of color, Aph?
FOR SHAME! 😀
What about gay porn and feminist porn? Considering that the male actors get paid a lot less, I think they are more likely to be exploited.
They aren’t exploited, Bad Man, because they have male privilege. Just ask Aph.
” I can’t go to the store without a man starring at my butt and boobs like he is a predator.”
Right. Every man in the world wants you.
This is what gender studies does to the brain. Dangerous stuff.
Their is the possibility that some of these men were actual cannibals.
It occurs to me to mention that right at the very beginning of this article, the author mentions that his friend has just as much of a problem with video games as with porn. And yet, he and everyone else in this thread have focused entirely on the porn without wondering whether there’s something more complex at play here. Have you ever watched someone’s face a few hours into a marathon gaming session? Zombie doesn’t even begin to describe it. Just saying.
Right, Charlie. I think it’s more the method that’s the problem here (she says as she refreshes her screen to see if anyone replied to her).
The problem here isn’t technology, as much as it’s our culture’s problems being exaggerated through technology. We are using technology currently to talk about an important issue which is constructive. While we are doing this, tons of people are looking at child porn. Technology does not mask our cultural problems. Technology does not cause our cultural problems-it magnifies them. Video games have their own separate problems which we could talk about on a whole different post. Television in itself does not create sexism…but it can broadcast it which speaks volumes about the people behind the programs.
Wait a minute, Charlie, let me just kill this last zombie here…
Hahaha!!!!
+1
This.
The problem I find with the people who a obsessed with the topic of helping men with porn addiction. Their motives are often completely selfish and have little to do with any real issue the person might be having.
The idea of porns very existence is so offensive all other possibility fly out the window. Don’t misunderstand me, porn addition is something that needs to be dealt with, but when you have thousands of negative thoughts and feelings preempting objectivity one needs to step back.
Bobby-the problem with porn is that it affects our culture..not just individuals. We live in a pornographic culture in which it impacts almost everyone. Our view of sex is framed through porn and the media. We need to address to become more liberated individuals orelse we will forever be acting out porn scenes in our bedrooms. It’s stupid and limiting.
Understand, bobby, that LiliBee and Terre are being completely loving, authentic and unselfish when they charge 225 dollars to “sexually heal” men by “placing them in touch with their most intimate feelings”.
This is completly unlike sex workers, who are evil and damaging to men when they charge guys 50 bucks for a blowjob.
The one kind of experience is authentic and relational, the other is crass and commercial. Keep that always in mind.
Neither Lili not I “sexually” heals porn addicts. We work with the spouses of sex/porn addicts. we have given away a thousand-fold more work than we have been paid for. We are an adjunct to therapy and groups. The damage done with this addiction is so traumatizing to the partner/spouse of sex/porn addicts, that sometimes another tier of experienced helpers are required.
Lili has spiritually counseled many sex/porn addicts. that Is not at all as you represented it,
Are you always this sloppy with details?
Ah, yes, Terre, but every prostitute I know could make the same claim. Freebies are part of the game when what one is selling is essentially symbolic value. I have no trouble at all with you and Lili selling your particular brand of “sexual healing”. You can call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that you’re getting paid to make people feel better about themselves and their partners, sexually. I think that’s just fine. What I don’t get is when you start pitching what you do as “real” and “authentic”, using all sorts of fuzzy,… Read more »
Carry on, Thad- I have a client due here shortly and I do like to be empathic to the mess their partner’s addiction has made in their life…..that you call this unlicensed sexual healing therapy shows you aren’t up on acceptable forms of counseling in the state of New York. The biggest and most tragic irony is that many of our clients don’t have more than the $50 per hour we charge because their husbands have spent it all….on hookers!! And if you’ve looked at our site, we don’t treat addicts, we treat the partners of addicts we often have… Read more »
LOL!
Just can’t win around here, can you. Mention you have a PhD and someone will tell you “That’s just a piece of paper! It means nothing!!!”
Agree, and point out that another person’s “paper credentials” likewise mean nothing, and receive a frosty, haughty response about how said person’s wallpapering means that they are consumate professional. 😀
Seriously, Lili, I think you should tell Dunn to quit his PhD studies. Credentials, after all, mean nothing, right?
At least they mean hothing when one’s intelectual opponents wave them about… 😀 😀 😀 😀
Please do not mix me up with other commenters. I would never claim your PhD is just a piece of paper, Thaddeus. That was someone else.
I DO respect credentials and pay the professionals for all their years of training to work with our clients…after all, I am limited in who/ what I can legally offer myself.
If you have zero respect for other’s credentials and continue to promote erroneous information about their specialty, why not keep it to yourself? Otherwise, it’s ugly, disparaging and generally adds nothing but insults. You’re certainly not enlightening us here.
I’m sure there are people for whom cocaine never became addictive. I smoked for a few years and then quit, no problems. I have no issues with alcohol, in fact I feel ill after two glasses of wine. I’ve got friends though, who can’t have one drink ever. Ever. Because they have something innate about their chemical make up that doesn’t allow for casual drinking. There are people that look at porn a few times and decide it’s not for them. There are people for whom sex is like drinking, smoking. It trips off that chemical imbalance in them and… Read more »
Copyleft- Are you stating that you 100% do not believe that porn has negative effects on men’s attitudes towards sex, and men’s views towards women? If that is what you believe, then please say so. Also-you can stop throwing around the word “feminist” since this is something that you blatantly do not understand. It’s as if you are using it an insult, whereas it is a huge compliment. My boyfriend is a huge feminist as well. I actually study this topic so I feel a bit more educated on this than you. If you wanted to actually know the statistics,… Read more »
Aph, this is a game that some pro-porn commentators play. They demand links. Links are posted and they dismiss the validity of the links. They dismissed links from the CDC’s department of family violence and human trafficking last time I posted on this topic saying that it came from the Christian right and that the government cannot be trusted, yada, yada. The vehemence with which they insist that porn is wonderful and safe and we will all live happily ever after if we only had MORE of it in our lives indicates that they are trying very desperately to protect… Read more »
In other words, Terre, you have no proof. Your working straight up on faith and bad science.
You could have just admitted that from the get go.
I think Copyleft is right in his assessment: you DO sound a lot like creationists, birthers and global warming deniers. Like those people, you too seem to think that science is some sort of conspiracy, dedicated to covering up TEH TRUTH, which has been directly revealed to you and your fellow believers.
Thanks for the link demonstrating that porn is both popular and profitable. It also says that fully 10% of respondents agree that they are addicted, which is a far cry from your “most men are addicted” claim. Thanks also for pretending that I said “porn is 100% harmless to all men,” which of course is both false and easily disproven by reading the thread.
Do you have some more false assumptions to present, or are those enough for now?