The Good Men Project is more than just a “big tent.” It’s a big universe.
In a different lifetime, I would consider Hugo Schwyzer a friend. I am awed by his ability to tell stories of his personal experiences, experiences many of us might be afraid to even remember. I admire his ability to make an argument, to add insight, to have a seemingly endless amount he can say, especially when it comes to feminism. In a previous lifetime, I would have called myself a feminist, too. But these days, I prefer disposable labels of who I am. Labels that cycle in throughout my life as needed. I look at labels, simply, as performance art—the same way gender can be labeled a performance. “If this is Act 3, I must be a CEO.” And within that framework, I simply act in ways that I see as bringing the most good to the most amount of people.
Were there to be a label that made sense to define the very core of who I am, it would be a “humanist”. Hugo Schwyzer, on the other hand, as he has made clear with his very public resignation from The Good Men Project, defines himself—through and through, to his very core—as a feminist.
At The Good Men Project, we speak from the experiences of men. It doesn’t mean we don’t allow women’s voices, and it doesn’t mean we don’t talk outright about feminism. But it means we also talk about other things. A lot more than we talk about feminism. In fact, at various times in The Good Men Project’s short span on earth, we have been called too feminist, too macho, too homosexual, too heteronormative, too white, too old, too young, too rich, too poor. We’ve survived that all. And we’ve survived it all because, first and foremost, we are about men, but at our core we are also human.
There is no doubt, when you look at men and the stories they have to tell, that change is happening. If we say “men’s roles are changing,” we might as well have Homer Simpson hit his head with a big “doh.” Everywhere you look you can see men in different states of change. Men losing jobs, gaining jobs, figuring out custody arrangements. Men deciding to stay single, or marry other men, or marry four different women over the course of a lifetime. Men bringing their daughters to ballet, staying home to raise the kids, exploring sexuality. Men in jail and men in war. One of our favorite contributors is a man who started life as a women, transitioned to a man, only to then marry another man. Justin Cascio believes in gay rights, trans rights, the full expression of masculinity no matter what the path to get there, and yes, along with that, feminism. And call us optimists, call us whatever you want, but as we look at the men, the stories they tell, the struggles they have, and the honest way they are sharing those stories—well, all we see is good.
♦◊♦
As an individual, I can see how feminism is the fight for all those rights, but as a leader of an organization that revolves around men, I’d prefer to come from a place that doesn’t have a female frame of reference but a human one. We are humanists first, and we have built a website for men to tell their stories. Along with those stories, we talk about provocative stuff: race and prison and war and the sex trade and rape and sexual violence. The Good Men Project allows men to tell individual stories, stories of growth and change and heroism. It also is a place that has deep, long conversations that continue for hours, days, weeks, months. Almost three million people have visited this website.
♦◊♦
The first day I ever met Tom Matlack, we had lunch together, and he told me some of those stories. He had been collecting them to put in a book. He had a half-finished manuscript and wanted some guidance as to how to spread the word.
The stories, Tom told me, were all tied together by the fact that the guys had come to a point in their lives, a “defining moment,” a moment when all that they thought to be true was in question. And as these guys looked at the world around them, they realized that what they wanted was to figure out what it meant to be “good.” Tom didn’t know. Tom didn’t want to help them define the word “good.” He just knew that the stories were stories worth telling.
You could see it in Tom’s eyes; as he was telling me these stories, he was right there with these guys. He was on the battlefield in Iraq. He was stepping over a pool of blood in a jail cell. He was in a hospital room while doctors applied heart paddles to a man’s one remaining son.
Tom handed me the manuscript, and then glanced away, far out the window. He handed me the manuscript and said “Here. You can read my own mess of a story in there. It’s the stuff guys don’t usually talk about.”
I took the manuscript from him and replied, “Tom, don’t you see? That’s not just the start of a book. That’s the start of an idea.”
♦◊♦
Just to set the record straight—and only because I’ve been asked more than once to comment publicly on the situation—I never said to Hugo, “I will not run your post.” I took the post down over what I saw as valid concerns from Tom Matlack, the founder of this Project, the starter of this vision. I talked with Tom on the phone, and I then asked Hugo a question that I wanted answered before the post ran. He told me he needed 24 hours to think about it. I said, “fair enough.” Hugo could have chosen to answer the question. He could have chosen to address my concerns before the post ran. He could have chosen to talk to me about it. He could have done all of the above and then still resigned. But he didn’t. Instead, he answered my question by sending me his resignation letter. I accepted his resignation. When I challenged him on this on his blog, he said, “There was nothing more to discuss.” That is all I will say about the subject, so please address further questions to Hugo.
But if Hugo and I were to walk together into a very allegorical bar, together, as a male feminist and a female humanist, and have a cup of green tea together, this is what I would say to him. I’d say, “Hugo, I get it. I get that you resigned over politics. It wasn’t really about me controlling your editorial direction. We’ve worked together a year. How many times have I tried to control your words, edit your posts? Once? Twice? Never?”
Instead, I understand, Hugo, that you needed to make a very public act of feminism in your departure from The Good Men Project. Because you are a feminist at your core.
And so, I will tell you a story.
Hugo, on the night your post was due to go up, I was at the mall with two of my kids. It had been a hellish day, but I had promised them we’d go Christmas shopping, and damn it, we were going shopping.
And here is a text exchange with my daughter at the mall.
The reason she got “the vibe” from me? I had just gotten an email that Tom Matlack passed along from a feminist who was “hurt” by the words that had been exchanged. He had apologized to the feminist. He had asked her if she wanted to write for The Good Men Project. He had passed me the email because he knew I was the one to make that happen. I did.
♦◊♦
Did I say to my daughter, “Sorry I can’t pay attention to you right now, I have a hurt feminist on my hands?”
No, I said “Sorry, hon, I will put down my phone now. I will take off my label of CEO. I will stop worrying about the hurt feminist. And I will pay 100-percent attention to you.”
Anyone who doesn’t see that as an act of feminism is a different sort of feminist than I am, and that’s OK. Anyone who doesn’t see that for me, as CEO of a men’s multi-media company, being able to put my phone down and say to my daughter: “I will stop being CEO while I am in a room with you”—anyone who can’t see why that act is so powerful and life-changing—in my mind, just doesn’t get it. Because—I am very publically showing acts of feminism every day. I am showing men that switching roles like that—seemlessly, without doubt, without guilt—is OK for men too.
♦◊♦
I get home from the mall, and Hugo’s post is up. And Tom Matlack calls me up. Tom is the person, who, by the way, when we first started working together, called me up to have a conversation about profit margins. And as we’re on the phone, he says, “If we looked at it this way, the profit margins would be … wait a second …” And then in the background I hear “Whhhheeeee! Thanks daddy! Up!” Tom gets back on the phone and says, “Sorry, just wanted to put my son on my shoulders. So the profit margin would be …”
That’s an act of feminism too.
♦◊♦
But the thing that I keep getting back to—and the reason I’m still in this allegorical bar with Hugo, hashing this out—is that The Good Men Project is not about feminism. It’s about men, and their stories.
And through those stories, we also want to be the people who talk about race. Who talk about prison. Who talk about sexual abuse. Who talk about addiction and mental illness and child support and marriage and divorce and life and death. Just tied together under the umbrella of men. Because even if we are moving closer to a “non-binary world,” right now, we still have people we call “women,” and we still have people we call “men.” And we’re here for the men.
♦◊♦
I take 100-percent responsibility for the fact that Hugo resigned. If that puts me at odds with the feminist community, so be it.
I tried to do what was right. What was good. What was respectful. What was human. If I failed to be any of those things, I failed nobly. And Hugo, if you’re still here in spirit, I hope you can see that too.
♦◊♦
Last night, I worked late into the night with Marcus Williams and Joanna Schroeder as we worked on hashing out a clearer and more consistent commenting policy to make the site a safer forum to talk about the issues that men face. Charlie Capen joined our video chat—and gave his views on comment moderation, which he gleaned from howtobeadad.com.
At 3:27 am, I took a glance at the email on my phone, where Charlie had written up some notes on what had been discussed. My head hit the pillow, and I dreamt of comment moderation. For one of the shortest days of the year, it felt damn long.
♦◊♦
Since The Good Men Project started just a year and a half ago, we have had almost three million absolutely unique visitors.
Three million people—any way I look at it, that’s a huge amount of people and a huge responsibility. I’d like to be modest, but that’s a damn “big tent”. In fact, it’s not just a damn big tent, that’s a damn big universe.
And since I’m a visual person, I try to imagine how many people three million is. It’s over 43 Gillette stadiums filled to the brim with roaring fans. No wonder we get people angry sometimes. More people have been to The Good Men Project website than have been in attendance in two-and-a-half years of Patriot’s football.
Late last night, before I worked on the commenting policy but after I had said good-night to my kids, Tom Matlack and I talked for a while on the phone. We talked about where The Good Men Project had been, where we are going, and how to best get there. As usual, I couldn’t contain my excitement. I start pacing back and forth, practically jumping up and down. We talked about core audience, mission, the stories we are telling of men, by men, for men. The stories from men that help define us as human. We talked about how hard it is to talk about provocative topics because we don’t always use the right words. We laughed. We’ve both used the wrong words before. And I found my voice rising as I spoke: “We can’t stop talking about the provocative topics, Tom. Even if we talk about them wrong. Even if we say the wrong words.”
Later that night, Tom sent me one of his favorite one-word emails.
It simply said “Onward.”
I kid you not, but I stumbled across this article as I was looking around the site for a way to contact someone and tell them I thought the site was getting sexist all of a sudden. I had no idea Hugo resigned. And while I don’t know the full story yet, at least now I can say that from this article alone I think there seems to be more favoring of the mainstream feminist backlash than anything else. Extremely disappointing. But like you said, your first CEO phone call was to talk about profit margins. Big shock.
@Paul Hobson Why sexist? Because Hugo resigned? I say it again, HE RESIGNED. HIS DECISION. It is up to him and not up to the GMP to submit comments and articles, and as far as I know Hugo is NOT banned. His articles are not edited or deleted. His articles are welcome. However the GMP is willing to publish also other comments – especially those from MRAs – which are not feminist-friendly and Hugo will have to accept that, the GMP is not his website. Hugo does not like that and so he resigned, and only because Hugo resigned, the… Read more »
Can you explain what you mean by this: “I think there seems to be more favoring of the mainstream feminist backlash.” It’s not clear. We do cover a lot of ground and a lot of POVs. It’s odd that this website is being called both “too feminist” and “too sexist” at the same time. Some examples from you would be helpful when calling us out on what you see as bad behovior. We can’t change if we can’t see what you see. The “profit margin” discussion was to talk about a different point entirely. It happened before I was CEO,… Read more »
@Lisa
There is no reason to defend yourself with arguments like ‘it is a CEO’s job to run a business as a business’.
Interesting. Questions about the financial situation – ‘who will pay for such publications?’ – and ‘they should not do that for money’ etc. seem only to be an issue related with publications about men’s rights.
For sure feminists are not known to work for free and nobody says a word about it.
Thanks Yohan. It baffles me the ongoing questions about money, as if the only “pure” way to have a discussion is to not make money. The goal here is to become profitable so we can reach a wider audience and do more good.
Hi Lisa, As someone who understands the points feminists and MRA’s try to make (and personally know many from both viewpoints), keep on doing what you are doing. You, Tom and the rest of the staff are doing a great job. No matter what articles you run about this issue, you will ALWAYS receive criticism from people who just completely disagree with the other side. It would be like having a blog that discusses both political parties and having Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton writing. I have nothing against either gentleman, but they are just so in to their viewpoint… Read more »
Thanks Andrew! We’ve had our fair share of criticism lately, so I welcome the kind words. It’s been a fascinating road trip these past 18 months, that’s for sure. And yes, we truly set out to embrace the divergent viewpoints, so it’s nice to hear that is seen from the outside. We are also constantly looking for ways to get better. I’m sometimes accused of being defensive — but that’s only because I’ve got something important to defend. We’re *obviously* doing something important here — the fact that we’ve got so many critics is a great sign, I believe. We’re… Read more »
Lisa wrote “Part of the reason this whole thing started was because of words. Words that you are or are not “supposed” to use. Wrathful, insane, and now hurt. But what is weird to me is that men have often been called forth to “talk about their emotions”. Wouldn’t you agree? And then when they do use emotional language, they are told they are using the language “wrong.” This is the biggest point of disconnect I can see. I would love if someone could tackle explaining why that is.” Pardon me if I’m incorrect (I may very well be) It… Read more »
Sorry if that wasn’t clear. It was NOT me that had written “your post on manliness was hurtful” — it was someone else. I have heard that theory from others that having women say “I am hurt” or “This feels unsafe” or “I feel emotionally unsafe in this conversation” is a way of shutting down the conversation. After all, what good man (or good person) would keep on talking if someone said they were hurt or felt unsafe? I have been watching for that — it is fascinating when I see it happen. It’s why I brought it up in… Read more »
ht tp://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/the_good_men_project_i_used_to_know “Personally, I’m a big fan of just banning MRAs. They have nothing of value to add to a conversation, and exist online solely to disrupt any conversation they fear might lead others towards reaching the conclusion that women are people. ” Amanda Marcotte writes the above comment, in an article where she is annoyed at someone else generalizing, and even posts this “I wanted evidence of how women are not accepting men, and what acceptance would look like. “. Well Amanda, walk to a mirror and take a look, what do you see? Your question has been answered.… Read more »
I don’t know why your ” surprised and shocked” Archy. That quote is the style Ms. Marcotte uses in all of her writings. Dare to even slightly question anything she says (and it doesn’t matter if you are a man or a woman) and you will feel her rath. With people like her,an ” open conversation” goes like this,she tells you the way it is, and you sit there and nod your head in agreement.
I guess I came from the understanding that feminists would be less likely to be bigoted, ignorant, biased, but more and more I’m seeing a bad side to quite a few. I’m glad there are some great feminists but at least on this site, the 2 most popular seemed to be Amanda and Hugo and both quite frankly are the very thing they are trying to fight against, what’s worse is they cannot see it themselves!
You become what you hate. The answer is not to hate.
What’s the fun in that though?
Merry Christmas every one
I’ve enjoyed reading GMP articles. I’ve not felt it my place to participate, I’m just happy that men are discussing these issues which are theirs. But I don’t know how to make sense of this post. Have I missed something? What is that story about the kids? What is this mocking of a reader – a “hurt feminist”? I can’t believe this was meant as it reads – juvenile. If this is the reply to Hugo’s missive, then the game is over, forfeited actually, because this side showed up without wits.
I’m sorry you didn’t understand some of the points in my story. It is truly how I write — interweaving multiple examples of actual events going on in my life in order to make a larger point. In this case the point was two-fold”: a) For me, actions define feminism as much as words do. “Equality in the workplace” — which I had always seen as one of the large tenets of the feminist movement throughout the years — has everything to do with embracing a model that accepts both child-caring and a professional life that is thoughtful, action-oriented and… Read more »
I’m not going to comment on Hugo Schwyzer hitting the eject-button because either way, he packed up his stand at the GMP Magazine, and headed elsewhere. It’s a done deal…now…moving on… So, I have observed that even comments parked under Lisa’s article that is essentially an affirmation of returning this site to its core intent, becomes another demonstration of why that re-dedication is necessary. Both of the comments above (I’m still not sure how the chronological order of comments is arranged in this joint) or below mine seem to revolve around rather intense obsessions concerning the feminist movement and whatever… Read more »
I noticed there are complaints against the GMP by a feminist ‘Zorro’ about censorship of comments which are feminist-friendly and pro-Hugo. It is strange that feminists, who are in favor of a very restrictive moderation policy (agree with us or you are gone!) are complaining about their missing comments in a men-friendly environment. My request as MRA to the moderators of the GMP: Please publish ALL comments! Unlike feminist websites, a publication for men should be open to everybody and should always welcome any comment, even if the majority of men and the moderation staff disagree with its content. Thank… Read more »
Is the writing on the wall, feminism is not the utopia is has always claimed itself to be and a change of tack had to come, sooner than later, before feminism became a total irrelevance, wandering into a hate fest as clearly demonstrated when the RadFem Hub was exposed and the Feminist world totally ignored it..
Fascinating how a doctrine that professed to be the answer, ignites into hate and malice. Changing this site to be more “Man Issue orientated” than “mangina training” is a change. We await the next step..
Even though I am usually likely to disagree with Hugo or Jensen, I like the fact that they post under their real names. Occasionally, I agree with Hugo. I hope he continues to write articles.
I’d consider myself a non-moralistic humanist. I liked the sex-positive femminism of the 60-70s.
Posting under your real name has its disadvantages. For example, it is easier for people to attack you instead of your ideas. But it does take a certain courage. I usually use my real name on the web, but I fear doing so in places where I could get attacked like Tom did.
I am also posting using my real name and picture on MRA-platforms and also with the GMP, but I am not living in the USA and I am near to retirement. It is much more difficult to comment using your own name living in USA while speaking out for men and boys – to show up as a feminist using your real name is easier, as it is politically correct. Even some comments on your facebook-account against feminism are reason enough to be fired, if your employer does not like your opinion and/or if women complain about you. About being… Read more »
This website was one of Schwyzer’s biggest forums. All he had besides TGMP was his own site and Jezebel. Though, he could almost always count on a hostile reception here.
Ironically, even on the feminist blogs, which are more in accordance with Schwyzer’s opinions, he was never well received. Just look what happened when Clarisse Thorn interviewed him for Feministe.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/12/23/on-change-and-accountability/
@ Lisa Hickey
One request, which has nothing to do with this thread:
Please do something about this automatic refresh-command of the GMP during writing a comment.
It might destroy all and everything what you have written if you do not create manual backups every minute.
I know other readers are reporting similar problems.
Thank you
“Please do something about this automatic refresh-command of the GMP during writing a comment.”
Not just during writing a comment. Remove that feature (auto-refresh) period. It makes firefox take more RAM for no reason at all. I keep tabs opened of certain sites and blogs I read – but I don’t do that with TGMP because the auto-refresh would eat the connection and RAM and CPU usage, for no reason whatsoever.
Lisa, thank you for sticking to your guns, for doing what was right.. and for being one of the people that provides “Good Men”, I’m one of those Alternative lifestyle straight men you never hear about, and Good Men helped me have the confidence to start a Men’s discussion group ( we meet bi weekly for dinner and bad jokes), to tackle the issues my kids are going through, and Majorly helped me to come to terms with Living without any memory of being younger than 14 or so. I like humanist it’s a good label it reminds me of… Read more »
Thank you Matthew. I said to Hugo — who I am a huge supporter of by the way — is that what people don’t perhaps realize is that this is actually hard. Really hard. What we are doing here is extraordinarily difficult, ambitious and potentially life-changing. So when I see a comment like this — it’s SUCH a breath of fresh air. You looked at what was going on and you took action. You took really really positive action. I wanted to get up and start dancing when I heard those words. Best of luck with the men’s group and… Read more »
You say that The Good Men Project is a big universe. However, you just posted comments that are highly critical of Hugo and feminism. If TGMP really was a big universe, you would have posted comments that supported Hugo and thought that this website was becoming very anti-feminist. It sounds like TGMP readers do not want to hear any comments that even hint that yes, we’re still in a very male dominated society and yes, most men have internalized that dominance (to varying degrees, of course). It does not mean that men are inherently bad, but it does mean that… Read more »
Hi Marie, We are working on a better comment moderation system. If comments that directly attacked Hugo went through, I am sorry and I will take those down. The amount of comments coming through lately has been astounding. We certainly did not delete any comments that supported Hugo. We would not do that. Hugo was a contributor who wrote about topics that most interested him. Quite frankly, the only reason we *didn’t* ask him to write about it was that those terms only recently escalated in importance. I would personally *love* an article that clearly explained male privilege and guy… Read more »
Lisa Hickey: The amount of comments coming through lately has been astounding. We certainly did not delete any comments that supported Hugo. We would not do that. ——————————————- I can confirm that the GMP is not into deleting or editing of comments and not into banning of people, who do not agree with feminism. It is hardly to imagine, that the GMP is resisting to publish comments which are supportive to Hugo. However, this is a website, which was originally designed to be supportive to men and their problems, and it seems, Hugo’s articles about men=bad + women=good is not… Read more »
My experience recently was I had a few comments deleted on Hugo’s posts that were critical of him. So from my perspective the opposite is true – comments against Hugo’s perspective were deleted. That’s why I was surprised when I heard he’d resigned!
Me too QRG. Actually, today was the first day in a long time that my comments were’nt subject to modification automatically.
Typo. Imeant to say moderation. (actually, I see my comments are in fact awaiting moderation)
they should have all been cleared now…yes?
Sorry Ms. Hickey, it just seems that if I write “Hi., how ya doin'” it’s subject to “moderation” as opposed to certain “Feminist” (eg. Ms. Marcotte?) who seem to get a “hall pass” on such scrunity.
In fact this very response is “awaiting moderation”
I agree that the TGMP is very even handed in their moderation. The over-whelming majority of the time I only have issues because I forgot and left mild profanity in the post, or I had more than one web-link. It also seems sometimes my posts go straight into moderation, but I think that may be based on some kind of timer. I suspect if you have had two or more comments go into moderation for profanity or weblinks within X number of minutes then you are flagged and all comments go straight into moderation until a certain time elapses and… Read more »
Thank you John. We are now up to almost 5,000 comments a month, and it’s been escalating recently. About 40% of comments get held for moderation, when they trigger our system (swear and other trigger words, length, multiple links, commenters who have been problematic in the past.) Most are then approved immediately. The top reasons to have a comment blocked are: 1) Direct attacks on the author 2) Direct attacks on GMP 3) Continually using the GMP forum to promote your own agenda, regardless of the content of the individual post. As it is mostly a human run system, we… Read more »
Hi Lisa, can you define a direct attack on an author? Would being suggesting they’re biased and backing it up with evidence (well, commentators theory:P) be acceptable? If an author posts something deemed to be highly misogynous, or misandrist, are we allowed to call them out on that? I hope that is still allowed, whilst still getting rid of vile attacks like the calls of “mangina” and other unhelpful terms. But I do hope I can suggest an author has written misandry if their post is men = bad, women = good (or misogyny for vice versa).
Hey Archy! A direct attack is most easy to see when someone calls an author out by name and attaches a bad word to it. So “Hey Lisa, you’re a f*ing b*tch” will get deleted. Same thing with “Good Men Project is the suckiest website I’ve ever been on”. Contrary to popular opinion right now, I’m actually ALL FOR constructive criticism. But generic name calling doesn’t do anyone any good and just creates a level of hostility that is unnecessary. On the other hand, I think it’s great that we continually challenge each other. Really, any thoughtful comment that tries… Read more »
Thank-you, if it had been constructive criticism = no no, I would have been gone:P. I fully expect people to challenge even my opinions, if I am saying something that is wrong and they can give me proof I will look into it. I’ve already learned a huge amount like this, my education is constantly growing and I’ve already changed quite a bit of my behaviour due to things I had no idea was bad before. Constructive criticism I find is as important as the original articles themselves, I come here for the articles but more so the articles I… Read more »
Thanks! And if you ever want to contribute a post or an article, please email me at [email protected] and we’ll get you set up.
We could speak of the often-ignored female privilege, too. The Marxist view that one class need to directly oppress another for it to ‘count’ as oppression is stupid. What is oppressing people is the stupid. It has built-in motivators in order to boost itself, and prevent dissension. It doesn’t need any one specific group to oppress another: LGBT people will gladly oppress each other given the chance, because the system pushes them into doing it. Similarly, men will oppress each other, and women each other and ad finitum. So female privilege exists, and has systemic backing, the same as male… Read more »
is the system, not the stupid (though the system is annoying, and might be stupid, too – given it doesn’t aim to further humanity, only to have a select few profit from the unhappyness of everyone else.
I would like an article to be posted on how damaging and unhelpful the use of male privilege as a silencing tool can be, especially when used to minimize the severity of male abuse (can also have an article on the tactics used to minimize female abuse though I do believe many feminist spaces have these already). A tactic I recently saw was glossing over some extremely important stats on male sexual assault victims whilst declaring that there hasn’t been an increase in female rapists, even though the same report the author used had proven it. Problem was the usage… Read more »
Wow Lisa.
If you find “manliness hurtful”
maybe the GMP is not such a good idea after all.
Perhaps Tom could start new with “The better man” site, where he is ok with “manliness”
(and sticking up for men)
There are nicks in the chains men, keep working it till it breaks.
“We shall overcome”
Could you explain where I ever said that I find “manliness hurtful”? I’ve gone to great lengths to explain how that is *not* true — I am a huge supporter of men — and so if you are getting a different sense then I would like to know why.
Ms. Hickey, I must admit, you have defintley shown yourself to be true to the “mission” of the GMP. I had my doubts, but Matlack knew what he was doing when he asked you to take charge. Good luck to you the rest of your way.
Thanks bobbt! Can’t say it’s always been easy but, honestly, it’s the community here that makes this site as great as it is.
Just let Hugo go, he was a pain in the ass for this site anyway. Let him take his religion exactly where it belongs- to his own blog.
Thehermit, I couldn’t agre with you more. I had 3 basic problems with Hugo. #1, Hugo existed in the protective cocoon of “academia”, where he taught “fuzzy, soft” courses (very subjective). No matter what you may feel, it’s a fact that your world you live in shapes your opinions. In the real world it’s “Produce or be Gone”(no tenure here). #2 Hugo writes about his 4 marriages, his drug use, his having sex with his students. It’s just my opinion, but I really feel he thought he was doing “his pennence” by giving of himself wholeheartly to femdom. #3 Hugo… Read more »
The Bad Man says: December 23, 2011 at 12:11 am It really doesn’t change the gender feminist slant much, Hugo was just one of the worst offenders. ————————– While I agree it does not change much the gender feminist slander in general, it is a significant turning away for the GMP from the untrustworthy ‘mangina-image’ to be feminist controlled in its writings, financially depending on feminist donations, cheered by Ms. Magazine and so on. It shows that Ms. Lisa Hickey and Mr. Tom Matlack show much more strength that many readers expected from them. Hugo’s decision to leave can be… Read more »
“It shows that Ms. Lisa Hickey and Mr. Tom Matlack show much more strength that many readers expected from them.”
i have to admit i feel more respectful about Matlack, than i did before his article. At least he showed some dignity.
Once i’ve called him a nitwit, might be that i was wrong.
It really doesn’t change the gender feminist slant much, Hugo was just one of the worst offenders.
Hugo seems to have these blind faith adherents to feminism that follow him around which the others do not. Its quite disturbing actually when someone questions them and they have no rationality for their beliefs in feminism. The thing is “feminism/ egalitarianism /masculism/” can when done well be rational and effective in furthering peoples thinking. But when you see feminists use “men have privilege women are oppressed” and all further discussion ends its really harmful to any sort of understanding. So with Hugo gone maybe we can have an actual exchange of ideas. And actually challenge assumptions rather than an… Read more »
I must say I am impressed at how you are humanist Lisa, it’s quite inspiring. When a woman can see the damage and harm men are subject to (and both genders suffer of course), it means quite a lot. I never really liked Hugo’s articles, they had a lot of bias and arguments that are very similar to what he seems to be annoyed at, and the promoting of prejudice & misandry left a bad taste in many mouths I think. I hope he learns from this experience and REALLY hope he starts to appreciate the depth of male suffering,… Read more »
Thank you Archy. It’s truly the only thing I know how to do, how to be.
I also will say that I’d like to hear more of your story, Archy, if you would be so inclined to write. Please email me at lisa at goodmenproject dot com if that is of interest.
And I thought I was strong willed. Sheesh! The GMP brand, IMO, will improve without such a divisive influence. Also, it always seemed that his pieces were intentionally designed to attack and demean men and boys. Who knows? Maybe Aaron (DaddyFiles) will return now. It was only a matter of time before Schwyzer picked up his marbles and went home. I’ve been in business long enough to know that people who give ultimatums without even being willing to have an adult conversation are very seldom able to maintain successful long term relationships – because they must and will have their… Read more »
Hugo explains on his website, why he left the GMP… Hugo: Founder Tom Matlack wrote several pieces which were highly critical of feminism. ——————————– And? What’s wrong with that? Why should he not write anything which is highly critical of feminism? The GMP never said it’s a website promoting feminism. They even claim, they are supportive to men, they never said something like feminist-only. Why does this disturb him? He is not banned on the GMP, his articles/comments are not deleted or edited. But Hugo expected the whole GMP to agree with him, and this is plainly wrong. This is… Read more »
“It’s about me, me, me….”
I read that and had flashbacks to living with an Opera Singer!
Every morning it was “me, me, me. me, me!”
They spent so long having to warm up, before they could sing a different tune!
Lisa — You are an inspiration and a light — even on the darkest day. Mom to Mom, Daughter to Daughter, Sister to Sister, CEO to CEO, Human to Human – Thank you for YOU!
@MediaHound
I checked out your website. Hilarious. I almost spit my drink all over my laptop at f-grapefruit.
Sorry – but I have no website or other net facility connected to the name!
Now you have me worried! Do I have an evil twin?
A webcomic came up when I clicked your name. I just assumed it was your website, guess that will serve as a reminder not to assume anything.
Thank Heavens for that!
It’s not my evil Twin – just my older brother! he can draw – I’m still learning! P^)
I’ve wrongly bashed this site and its founders in the past. By following this debate on this site and on several others, I’ve come to realize how genuinely open-minded both Ms. Hickey and Mr. Matlack are on these important issues. I apologize for my past comments, if noticed by either person, and will continue to enjoy this site going forward.
Thanks Eric! I appreciate that!
I agree with Eric. Many of us MRAs considered the GMP as a new voice of feminism, promoting feminism in disguise while claiming it is open for men’s issues. Actually, MRA-websites were discouraging MRAs to post anything here. After Hugo left, this is no longer the case I guess. MRAs expected the GMP to go soon ahead with feminist moderation policy, which means to delete and edit all and everything which might be considered against feminism and to ban all people who are writing something which might disturb feminists like Hugo. Surprisingly for us the GMP did not agree with… Read more »
Lisa, I think you’re right to keep the focus of this site on men. It seems to be trending to the female point of view lately. Fact is, women have a lot of sites where they can discuss the complications of gender and the changing role of being female, but this site is pretty unique for men. If men consistently rained down comments and posted a lot of male POV articles on a women’s site, female readers would become pretty defensive. The male commenters on this site seem to be in that situation right now and for either gender it’s… Read more »
I like the idea of promoting civility in the discussions. Feminist Critics does a great job of it, maybe take a lesson from that site. The only problem with shortening posts is that people will just re-post more frequently and make the comments section busy-looking and difficult to read.
Feminists critics houses egalitarian feminists though, and they are a stark contrast to the gynocentric and often misandric feminists that were given the run of the place and position of privilege here.
A good balance between mens issue writers and egalitarian feminist writers would be good. Bringing misandric and gynocentric feminists whose views are one eyed and extreme like schwyzer and marcotte in to preach is just asking for drama.
“A good balance between mens issue writers and egalitarian feminist writers would be good.”
You don’t need to promote Julie and Lori, and as few others. They are fine as they are. They is just one of the boys. P^)
“The only problem with shortening posts is that people will just re-post more frequently and make the comments section busy-looking and difficult to read.”
Personally – I believe in short posts!
Me too, but the aren’t for everyone.
If you had seen some of the comments over some of my posts – you would get the Irony.
Apparently 6895 word posts are not welcome by some! With hyper-links.
All I did was correct a few errors with references.
I was called MRA – which was actually a compliment. I like truth, integrity and getting the facts straight. So I am officially a “Meddling Rational Archivist”. Such a nice acronym. P^)
Yes you are right about anecdotes not equalling data but you sound like a mra when you say that?
😀
I sound like MRA when I point out that an Anecdote is not Data?
What sort of bizarre world do some people live on?
… on second thoughts, don’t answer that! Tonight everyone is on planet Earth – Tomorrow it’s Uranus. P^)
Sorry, humor doesn’t always come through right in print, as I often find myself apologizing for, and I was splitting my attention between 2 articles, and twitter (too much multi-tasking). I have read some of your comments on other threads, and yeah, they get wordy. I almost never give the tl:dr treatment, I figure those comments are a lot of work to type up and only a few moments to read, might even learn something.
Still, there is something to be said for posts being 500 characters or less.
If there were only 500 characters or less in the world – it would be a lonely lace!
À chacun son goût
I had to google that. I am the worst Canadian ever.
Don’t worry – I too had to google to get the spelling right!
… and I’m not even in Canada!
Canada has two official official languages: English and Quebecois French. But really, most of it has two official languages, English and IM speak. I am only fluent in English.
Thanks L E. We are working on the commenting system, which I think will help. But also — you were right about the female contributors — what was odd was that we had a sudden influx — it was odd — so many started joining all at once! And I do think that tipped the scales a bit and threw the balance off.
Growing pains always look tough from the outside, but I always enjoy them as a way to step back and say “Wow, look what’s happening! What’s next!”
Lisa – GMP has Growing Pains. That comes from a “Growth Spurt”.
Some see it as an issue, other’s as a opportunity for a new wardrobe.
Growing pains can also indicate that you have grown so much you need bigger shoes, so you can walk further and explore more.
What’s next indeed?
Alot of the angrier comments have been the short ones, and the well thought through ones the lengthier ones. Not universally true, but somewhat.
I don’t think reducing character count would help, if anything it would just reduce people to using buzzwords and glib retorts rather than actual discussion.
Good to find this blog, sad that it was for this reason. A blog that engages with feminism seriously from a male perspective would be awesome, and it looks like you started well. If you’re not prepared to publish the breadth of views that you were, that ultimately diminishes your project.
When he was still writing here, Hugo wrote: ” That willingness to present so many divergent voices is one of our greatest strengths.”
“When he was still writing here, Hugo wrote: ” That willingness to present so many divergent voices is one of our greatest strengths.”” Hugo wrote fine words. I love presentations and words – I have done it for a living, and I was damn fine at doing it too. I made quite a handsome sum. But when you make a living from presenting ideas and words, there is a post presentation phase where you answer questions. Some questions are positive in tone and others acutely critical of what you presented. If you don’t know your product or subject, you are… Read more »
But it is FAR more difficult for a feminist to listen than for any of the rest of us. After all we’ve already heard every day for all of our lives nothing but feminism. Feminism is the unchallengeable default. Some people are just very conservative and any kind of criticism of the existing order is always treason.
It’s not symmetrical.
“After all we’ve already heard every day for all of our lives nothing but feminism.”
Sorry, but we evidently had different bed time stories! P^)
Symmetry is much over rated – ask a mathematician who works in multiple dimension and not just three – this way – that way – and the other way – plus??????
When he was still writing here, Hugo wrote: ” That willingness to present so many divergent voices is one of our greatest strengths.”
And yet from all I can find on the internet, his actions don’t match these words. Hugo claiming to support divergent views is like Soviet Russia having democratic elections, its a lie repeated until at least some of the people believe it.
The USSR did have elections. Tons and tons of them. Even the very word “soviet” means a democratically elected council of worker representatives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_%28council%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_Soviet_Union
I know they had “elections”. There was one party, it was a farce: consensus at gunpoint. I was saying that Hugo is a “smooth-talker” who eventually convinces some through good presentation and consistancy, not the substance of his ideas.
Didn’t the founding fathers also say political parties were a bad idea?
I have no idea. I am not an american, and I don’t believe a small group of dead white guys had the market cornered on wisdom. But in my opinion, they are a mixed bag, depending on the political system that you live in.
“But in my opinion, they are a mixed bag, depending on the political system that you live in.”.
So True – In every political system I have lived in, which is quite a few, they are always a mixed bad – of nuts!
Some of them did. They thought of parties as vehicles of factionalism and discord. But they did not proscribe political parties, and came to accept them as a regrettable but unavoidable part of republican politics. And most of them eventually came to align themselves with one political party or another.
I was going to make comment on the Soviet myself – but I skipped over that and read this bit:
” its a lie repeated until at least some of the people believe it.”
The devil is in the detail – the angel in the spirit of what was said! P^)
Its too bad that blunt angels are rarely as successful in being heard as the smooth devils. Just look at politicians and CEOs. Not too often that the well intentioned rise, people love to be bullshitted.
As one who practices Hortiphilia, I love being bullshitted!
Some like to throw it about!
Me? I grow roses!
Not only did they only have only one party to vote for, but they usually only had one candidate to choose(?) from. Soviet citizens were encouraged to go out and vote and it was considered their patriotic duty to do so.
So basically they were forced to the polls at gulag-point and forced to “elect” whoever they were told to. There was also a Russian constitution which was technically sacrosanct and above the reach of the party, but in practice it was all a sham.
It absolutely is one of our greatest strengths, and that is what we will continue to put forth. We invite everyone who is a commenter to contribute, or if you know any contributors who would like to join, send them our way. MediaHound has been published here after being a commenter, as have many others! Simply email me at lisa at goodmenproject dot com
Hi Lisa! Thank you for the comments and for all of the hard work you put into this site! This is actually the first time I am here. I heard about this through the blogosphere. To tell you a little bit more about myself, I am 24 year old man who is finishing up my last year of law school. I am sometimes a contributing blogger over at a website called “Talknerdy2me”, which is a blog that discusses college life. The blog is run by my honor society that I used to be president of in college (today we have… Read more »
Thanks Andrew! Our posts get at the male experience, male POV. Many are first person narratives, often with a moral or ethical dilemma at the crux, giving the stories their dramatic tension. We also like to talk about the big issues — race, violence, sex and relationships, education, prison, addiction. These large issues become the connecting threads between the individual stories. We often rally our entire community to submit on topics. This makes us different than any other media company out there.
Feel free to emails me at lisa at goodmenproject dot com if you’d like to learn more. Thanks!
“Good to find this blog, sad that it was for this reason. A blog that engages with feminism seriously from a male perspective would be awesome, and it looks like you started well. ” You seem to think that engaging feminism from a male perspective was the original purpose of this blog. Lisa stated pretty clearly that it was not, except where feminism becomes a men’s issue. And by the way, in what way has this blog not seriously engaged with feminism? I think most of the criticisms people make here are serious engagement. Don’t you, and if not, why… Read more »
Chris: Good to find this blog, sad that it was for this reason. A blog that engages with feminism seriously from a male perspective would be awesome, and it looks like you started well. If you’re not prepared to publish the breadth of views that you were, that ultimately diminishes your project. The serious engagement is there even though as Jim says that wasn’t the original purpose. Its just that some feminsts like to ignore the serious stuff and act like the only engagement is coming from people who are indeed not taking it serious or just have a grudge… Read more »
‘So a Male Feminist and a Female Humanist Walk Into a Bar…’
I do have one question as to the title of this piece. The main text fails to answer the issue.
Given the discord that has been about, it is rather relevant. It has to be answered. If it is not answered, it runs the risk of festering, causing discontent and re-emerging in the future to cause yet more questions. It is a central issue that has to be addressed.
Who paid for the drinks? P^)
Hah! I did, as I was the one who extended the invitation to join me.
Ms hickey, I would love to join you for a disscussion . please tell me hen and where