.
.
Six years ago, Tom Wicker told us about a time in his mid-20s when life as an out and active gay man collided with crippling anxiety and depression. Fortunately, with the help of medication, therapy and a readjusted view of what gay life was, Tom was able to live a healthier life.
We recently caught up with Tom to discuss his life today, his advice for others going through anxiety and depression, and how the pandemic has impacted the performing arts.
Transcript provided by YouTube:
00:00
[Music]
00:05
welcome to this week’s
00:06
story update today we’re going to be
00:08
speaking with tom wicker who’s all the
00:09
way over in the uk
00:10
but before we speak to tom let’s take a
00:12
look back at his story
00:19
my name is tom wicker and i’m from louis
00:22
in
00:22
east sussex in the united kingdom my
00:25
first memory of anything gay related was
00:29
actually
00:30
a tv ad when i was probably
00:34
about four or five and it was of
00:37
a stormy volcanic landscape
00:41
with lightning in the background and an
00:43
enormous tombstone
00:44
which i later learned had the word aids
00:48
written on it it is a deadly disease and
00:49
there is no known cure
00:52
if you ignore aids it could be the death
00:54
of you
00:55
i think for the best part of the first
00:58
18 years of my life that was what gay
01:00
was it was
01:01
sadness and illness and death and the
01:03
only other experience i had of
01:05
of being gay in my early teens before i
01:07
came out at 19
01:08
was a public toilet in my hometown where
01:12
i used to go down because people wrote
01:14
stuff on the walls and it was quite
01:15
exciting
01:16
and i remember going down to that toilet
01:19
once one saturday afternoon
01:21
on my way into another town and there
01:23
was a man at the urinals and i went to
01:25
take a pee and he wasn’t peeing he was
01:27
masturbating
01:28
and i was sort of dumbstruck and then he
01:31
reached over and grabbed my arm
01:33
and then went to move me into one of the
01:36
cubicles and it was as if the spell had
01:38
broken and actually then i was terrified
01:40
and i pulled away and i went to leave
01:43
that was the only experience i had of
01:46
anything gay again
01:47
until i came out at 19 and began dating
01:50
people
01:51
one of the the other issues in my life
01:54
during that time was that i suffered
01:55
from
01:56
depression specifically anxiety and it
01:58
would often
01:59
seize on certain things and i’d become
02:01
paranoid and obsessive about them
02:03
and as i continued to be a sexually
02:05
active
02:06
gay man the anxiety and can an obsession
02:10
used to
02:10
focus on sex and my mind would always
02:13
jump back to that ad
02:15
and to that dirty disgusting toilet in
02:17
my hometown
02:18
i do all the things that people tell you
02:20
not to i’d google symptoms
02:22
i’d go on to forums i’d read about these
02:25
things i’d scare myself after death i
02:26
wouldn’t sleep
02:27
in the insidious way depression works it
02:30
began to take over my entire life
02:31
and around the autumn time of 2005 it
02:34
got really bad
02:36
i stopped sleeping altogether i’d lay
02:38
awake panicking worrying
02:41
sure that that i had caught something i
02:44
did the thing that seemed like a
02:46
solution which is to get tested but of
02:48
course
02:49
all of that was symptomatic rather than
02:50
the cause so i would be
02:52
momentarily happy with the result and
02:55
then the doubt would creep in again what
02:56
if it had been what if they’d made an
02:58
error what if someone else’s blood had
02:59
been tested
03:00
and i went back from work to my parents
03:03
for christmas
03:04
having by that point probably not slept
03:05
properly for almost two months
03:07
i i i vaguely remember one day where i
03:09
just sort of shut down
03:10
and i have flashes of my dad coming back
03:15
um surprised to find me sitting on the
03:17
sofa pretty much non-responsive
03:19
um i remember that little bit um and
03:22
then him
03:23
bundling me into the car taking me to
03:24
some kind of emergency
03:27
gp clinic um him explaining what had
03:30
happened him crying i remember that
03:32
that’s essentially where i stayed for
03:34
three months in the spare room in my
03:36
parents house
03:38
and then we all decided that i probably
03:41
needed to do what i hadn’t done and was
03:44
way overdue was to find a therapist
03:46
so we did some research and i found a
03:49
therapist in london who
03:51
dealt in cognitive behavioral therapy
03:53
and for the first time someone said to
03:54
me okay
03:56
instead of talking yourself out of this
03:58
instead of saying don’t be stupid you
03:59
haven’t taken these risks you’re going
04:01
to be fine
04:02
the therapist said okay you get the
04:04
result and it is positive
04:06
do you die and he i said
04:10
no he said so you don’t die straight
04:11
away he said no he said so and in fact
04:13
actually
04:14
does anything else really change do your
04:15
friends and family disappear
04:17
i was like no they don’t he’s like then
04:19
work with that and in some ways that was
04:20
a breakthrough because it meant that i’d
04:22
this bogeyman under the bed was
04:23
something i had to sort of pull out and
04:25
hold by its shoulders and look at
04:26
properly
04:27
so i kept seeing the therapist stayed on
04:28
my meds
04:30
and actually the combination of the two
04:31
was great because the meds leveled me
04:33
out and the therapy gave me an outlet
04:35
but also what i realized at that point
04:36
was i didn’t really have any gay friends
04:38
for all of these years my overriding
04:41
impression of gay men
04:42
was that ad or that man in the public
04:44
toilet
04:45
or any number of films i watched in my
04:48
late teens which invariably were about
04:49
gay men getting aids
04:51
so i thought you know one of the things
04:52
to do here is to make an effort to try
04:54
and
04:54
change that rather than see men as the
04:57
things i wanted to have sex with and the
04:58
things that would kill me
05:00
actually go out and see them as people i
05:03
i
05:04
started working for an online magazine
05:06
interviewing
05:08
interviewing people involved in uh gay
05:10
initiatives
05:11
um and reviewing and just broadening my
05:14
circle
05:15
and actually in the end with the
05:17
combination of the therapy
05:18
and just seeing other gay men as people
05:21
to talk to to have a laugh with
05:24
and to be a part of community with made
05:27
all the difference
05:28
all right uh welcome tom wicker how’s it
05:31
going
05:32
um how have you been these past i think
05:34
it was six or seven years ago that we
05:36
filmed your story uh that’s a long
05:38
period of time but i think so
05:40
um what have i done since i left london
05:44
uh i now live um in brighton on the
05:46
coast of the uk which is
05:48
historically known as one of if not the
05:51
gay capital of the country so i’m in the
05:53
right place
05:54
uh i bought my own flat last summer
05:56
congratulations
05:57
well that’s a uh it’s been a good six to
05:59
seven years for you
06:01
yeah yeah i finally managed to earn
06:03
enough money to
06:04
behave like a grown-up
06:07
uh well i’m glad to hear so there were a
06:10
few things about your story that i’d
06:11
love to follow up on
06:13
um i feel like one of the biggest issues
06:16
that contributed to the anxiety that you
06:18
talked about in your story was
06:20
that ad and i know there were some other
06:22
factors involved as well
06:23
but i feel like over time especially
06:26
since the 80s
06:27
representation of the queer community
06:29
has gotten so much
06:30
better and we don’t see as many images
06:33
like that about the gay community uh do
06:36
you think that’s
06:36
generally helping uh young queer people
06:40
accept themselves younger and you know
06:42
do you think younger people are
06:44
experiencing less anxiety than you did
06:47
as a result of that
06:48
oh definitely i mean you just need to
06:50
look at
06:51
uh the the plays musicals on on stage
06:55
tv shows recently they’re showing such a
06:58
diversity of what it means to be queer
07:00
and young in every
07:01
aspect of life it’s not defined by one
07:04
particular issue and i think that’s a
07:06
really healthy way to see ourselves as
07:08
fully rounded people i wish
07:09
that i’d had that kind of variety of
07:12
choice of
07:13
role models and actors and people in
07:15
public eye to look up to when i was
07:17
a teenager experiencing the issues and
07:19
and the fears that i had that i
07:21
spoke about in my story yeah i think
07:23
it’s gone a lot better too
07:25
and i don’t want to like bundle
07:26
everything that contributed to your
07:28
anxiety to that one ad so what do you
07:30
whenever
07:31
you know you hear about young queer
07:33
people today who are
07:34
um struggling either to come out or just
07:36
simply to exist
07:38
uh what do you think that they might
07:40
need to hear uh that you wish that you
07:42
heard when you were younger
07:44
i know that the phrase it gets better
07:46
has become something of a cliche
07:48
but i wished that someone had told me as
07:51
a teenager that there is a community
07:54
waiting with open arms
07:55
to embrace you however alone and lonely
07:58
you might feel
07:59
and also that family isn’t necessarily
08:02
who you’re
08:03
who you’re born into i was fortunate
08:04
with mine but i know that not everyone
08:06
is
08:07
but we make our families through the
08:09
people we meet and and closeness and
08:11
intimacy
08:12
don’t have to where you start they can
08:14
be where you choose to be
08:15
i think that’s what i would say i love
08:17
that i i read a quote and i wish
08:19
i know who said it but they said that uh
08:23
family isn’t your blood those are your
08:25
relatives and families
08:27
who you go and have these experiences
08:29
with and create yourself
08:30
um and it sounds similar to what what
08:32
you just said uh so what else is going
08:35
on
08:35
in your life right now that that you
08:37
want to share that is different i know
08:39
we’re in the middle of the
08:40
pandemic and you know you’re in the uk
08:42
but what’s any other exciting
08:44
or different things in your life going
08:45
on i mean it’s it’s been an interesting
08:48
time
08:48
um i turned 40 about a month into
08:52
lockdown and it feels weird even saying
08:55
that out loud
08:56
um but yeah i am a 40 year old
08:59
i have to keep saying it and i’ll
09:00
believe it um and that was a strange
09:02
experience because i had
09:04
many plans for parties obviously all of
09:06
those fell through
09:07
um i’ve grown very accustomed to the
09:09
idea of a zoom hangover
09:11
uh certainly on my on my birthday and a
09:14
nice thing that happened also on my
09:15
birthday was that my brother had his
09:17
first child
09:18
my niece so she comprehensively stole my
09:21
thunder by
09:22
arriving in this world rather than just
09:24
turning an age in it
09:25
so but that’s been lovely and it was
09:27
quite difficult
09:28
for the first six or seven weeks when we
09:30
were very isolating not to meet her
09:32
um but it was lovely to finally meet her
09:35
a couple of weeks ago and that was my
09:37
first step towards feeling like i was
09:39
reconnecting with my uh my family and my
09:41
friends again
09:42
that’s great congratulations on on being
09:44
a gunkel
09:46
thank you so i wanna you you really
09:49
touched on so many important
09:50
parts in your story uh really about
09:53
growing up
09:54
uh as just a gay person and was there
09:57
any
09:57
any other parts of your story in terms
10:01
of
10:01
mental health and overcoming those
10:03
challenges that you had
10:05
that you want to talk about or address
10:07
or you know
10:08
not even within the minutes of your
10:10
story but
10:11
how that’s continued today and over the
10:13
past six or seven years
10:15
um of you know basically any advice on
10:19
how to
10:20
improve queer people’s mental health
10:24
i think there are i mean obviously i i i
10:26
don’t want to talk on behalf of people
10:28
with mental health issues because
10:30
there’s such a variety and diversity
10:32
of things that people confront and face
10:34
and it is different for every single
10:36
person so there is no one fixed rule
10:38
about how to
10:39
behave either if you have mental health
10:42
issues or with someone that does have
10:43
them
10:44
i think from my own personal experience
10:47
what proved to be toxic at the time that
10:50
i was
10:51
seriously ill was shame i think
10:54
i think i felt ashamed of the reasons
10:57
that i was feeling anxious
10:59
i think i was ashamed of the fact that i
11:01
had become so obsessed with my sexual
11:03
health
11:04
and i think shame means you don’t speak
11:06
out and
11:07
your loneliness is multiplied by 100
11:09
times and i think
11:10
when you live that much inside your own
11:12
head it’s a big empty
11:14
echoing place so i think whenever people
11:16
are struggling and and whenever they
11:18
feel able to
11:19
and in whatever way they can they can
11:21
reach out and talk to other people it’s
11:22
incredible
11:23
what a difference that can make but
11:25
again i’d say that has to be your own
11:26
pace
11:27
and you shouldn’t feel forced into a
11:29
conversation you’re not ready to have
11:31
yet
11:31
that’s great so don’t keep it to
11:33
yourself speak out be open
11:35
and reach out to others for help um is
11:38
there anything else that’s going on in
11:40
your life that you want to share
11:40
any other life updates besides you know
11:43
buying a place and turning 40 and
11:45
becoming an uncle oh my god what do you
11:47
want
11:48
um what about professionally what are
11:51
you up to these days
11:52
uh well i mean i i don’t think i
11:54
mentioned it in my story but
11:56
um i was an arts journalist specifically
11:59
a theater reviewer now obviously
12:01
as we know on both sides of the atlantic
12:04
uh
12:04
theater isn’t really happening at the
12:06
moment but i am trying to navigate that
12:09
and i’ve still been interviewing theater
12:10
makers and i’d be so impressed by what
12:14
a passionate and impassioned bunch of
12:15
people they are i mean during the course
12:17
of my work i’ve interviewed
12:19
a number of queer artists who have been
12:21
an inspiration
12:22
and i know that they are still looking
12:24
for avenues whether that be digital
12:26
platforms or
12:27
outdoor performances i think the spirit
12:30
that
12:31
i admire in the lgbt community and the
12:34
friends that i’ve made is very rife in
12:36
the theater world as well and i think
12:38
so much is happening in the world that i
12:40
think the one thing that feels
12:42
optimistic is that people have a burning
12:45
desire to keep
12:45
improving and moving and forging forward
12:47
even though we seem to be facing
12:49
adversity on every front at the moment
12:52
yeah so what about
12:53
what’s some hopefulness in the future
12:56
like what what do you in terms of art
12:58
and
12:59
you know everything has changed so much
13:01
what do you see
13:03
you know what light at the end of the
13:04
tunnel do you see in terms of
13:06
art yeah it’s it’s tricky i mean i think
13:10
i think certainly theaters are spaces
13:12
that need to be filled
13:13
with people that’s in their essence and
13:16
i think no one really knows when that
13:17
will happen again but i’ve been really
13:19
impressed
13:20
by the way that theater companies and
13:22
artists have embraced digital platforms
13:24
putting their work
13:25
online whether that be youtube or
13:28
streaming platforms i really admire the
13:31
way that people adapt
13:32
i think maybe that’s the one quality
13:34
that i think will see us through this
13:36
our amazing ability to adapt and form
13:38
communities and find
13:40
other avenues and outlets for the things
13:43
we need to say the things we want to
13:45
show
13:46
in a very changed world absolutely our
13:49
resiliency
13:50
and ability to adapt i love that well
13:53
uh tom is there anything else you wanted
13:54
to share
13:56
um just that i know that everyone is
13:59
having
13:59
an incredibly tough time but there is
14:02
solidarity in recognizing that
14:04
and i think just to keep communicating
14:07
i mean platforms like zoom
14:10
facebook skype just keep talking
14:14
keep seeing each other’s faces and just
14:16
try and hold on
14:18
i love that thanks tom um and if
14:21
tom some people might have questions for
14:23
you if they do uh y’all leave them in
14:25
the comments and tom will check that
14:26
periodically if that’s all right and
14:28
and maybe answer them uh and if you want
14:30
to watch tom’s story again
14:32
uh and any others we have thousands more
14:34
on our facebook on our instagram
14:36
and on our website of course so uh check
14:39
back next week for our next story update
14:42
thanks
14:50
[Music]
—
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad free
This post was previously published on YouTube and is republished here under a Creative Commons license.
—
***
If you believe in the work we are doing here at The Good Men Project and want to join our calls on a regular basis, please join us as a Premium Member, today.
All Premium Members get to view The Good Men Project with NO ADS.
Need more info? A complete list of benefits is here.
Talk to you soon.
—
Photo credit: Screenshot from video
.