In case you were wondering, a first, or even second, date is NOT the time to bring up body parts.
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Dear Men,
I’m hoping you can help me understand something. I’m wondering why, on my first or second or absolutely by the third date, there is a conversation initiated by your gender about breasts. And I’m talking human breasts, people, not chicken. More specifically, female human breasts.
The minute a guy says he prefers real breasts, we are, obviously, talking about my breasts. And guys, when I just meet you, I’m not ready to talk about my breasts!
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To clarify, it’s not like this:
Him: “May we take a moment to discuss your breasts?”
And it’s not like this either:
Him: “Can I just say that you have great tits?”
It’s more something along the lines of, in a fairly out of the blue way:
Him: “I don’t like fake boobs AT ALL. I mean, for me, fake boobs are a deal breaker.”
Me: “It’s funny you brought that up, because my husband’s fake boobs are the reason we got a divorce.
(Or, awkwardly,)
Me: “Yeah, I didn’t like my fake boobs so I had them put the real ones back in.”
(Or, snidely,)
Me: “I totally get it. I don’t like fake penises at all either. TOTAL deal breaker!”
There are so many problems with this conversation that I don’t know where to begin. I should probably begin with all of the things painful, dangerous or costly women have done throughout time to enhance their beauty and attract men: foot binding, neck elongation, genital mutilation, teeth whitening … but I’m not gonna. Instead, I will say this is a boundaries issue. Why don’t men see this as a boundaries issue? The minute a guy says he prefers real breasts, we are, obviously, talking about my breasts. And guys, when I just meet you, I’m not ready to talk about my breasts! I also don’t want to talk about your nipples or your penis or my vagina, just for the record. Maybe, if the moment is right, we could talk belly buttons. You know, innies and outies. Down the road, we can include other body parts. On the first or second date, no.
So, Men, a question. Is this because you think us women without enhanced breasts are self-conscious and would benefit from your endorsement? Or that we need a little cheerleading for our choice to stay au natural? Because it feels like you’re offering forgiveness for something I’m not sorry about. And hey, how do you know I don’t have a savings account just a few dollars short for a brand new set? For all you know, I might have the surgery booked for tomorrow. Whatever. It’s private, at this point. I don’t ask you about your real parts. At least, not yet.
The thing is, we aren’t talking about other body parts on these early dates. We don’t talk about earlobes or little toes or even fake versus real fingernails.
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Is there a hetero, married man equivalent of this conversation? I hope so. I hope married men say to their wives how awesome they think their wives’ breasts are. Specifically, their wives. Be careful not to offer out a general endorsement of breasts. “I just love boobs,” is a very bad idea in fact. It doesn’t even compare to “I just can’t get enough of your breasts (insert name here).”
But newly dating folks, we aren’t there yet. Hold your horsefeathers on the real/fake breast conversation. At least until after dessert.
Is there a surgically-enhanced breast carrier’s version of this conversation? I have been dying to ask but I just don’t know anyone in my circle of friends who is single, dating men, and has had a little somethin’ somethin’ done to alter herself. Wouldn’t it be fair to guess that guys on first dates with those women say something about how much they love fake breasts? And how real ones are a deal breaker? Somehow, I’m not seeing this. But is it happening?
Is this the leaking out of a larger conversation that we aren’t having? And I mean, not us single dating people but rather, culturally? Are we forgetting to talk, men to women and women to men, about fake boobs? Beyond, “I love them/I hate them” but more like, “Hey, are you doing that for me or for you or is it complicated?”
The web tells me that five percent of women have breast implants. Ok, so that’s one in twenty. How does everybody feel about this? Obviously, weird or excited enough to bring it up to the next random woman they go on a date with. The thing is, we aren’t talking about other body parts on these early dates. We don’t talk about earlobes or little toes or even fake versus real fingernails. Maybe tattoos come up. Perhaps, nipple piercings. Okay, not really.
Alright guys, question asked. Answer eagerly awaited.
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Not a guy, but I have had guys say that to me. Theres definitely an undertone of pity like”Please dont get imppants you poor, small boobed thing.” Im bigger and get this less. It is certainly an endorsement. Really its silly anyway. A lot of guys are scared that youll come out looking bad like Pam Anderson, playboy bunnies, or other augmented women who have fake boobs but still have legions of male fans. Also, many women have boob jobs that look natural and are not at all obvious. Imagine a guy saying that to women who have boob jobs.… Read more »
These men can’t respect us, because they don’t respect themselves.
There’s a hard truth for us in that though. We may not be innocent in this. We may be filtering for men who don’t respect themselves. A strong, self-respecting man would see the risk of becoming a topic for our blogs and will be more likely to wait for a partner he can trust. We think, perhaps correctly, that we can hide parts of our personality like this from our partners, but then we’re just filtering for dupes or partners who don’t want to really know us.
A statement which is of course predicated on the presumption that a guy asking that question is a valid blog topic, and that the blogger is the secure person in the dynamic.
If an off the cuff remark about boobs leads you to concoct this much hot air about a guy’s personality, then again, I’m not convinced the guy is the one here lacking in self-respect.
Question time. Presume you have fake breasts. And this statement is made. Do you really want to be dating a guy who doesn’t like your breasts? has he not just made the selection process easy for you? Also, your own breasts may very well be your own business, but does he not have a right to his own preferences? I don’t like fake breasts. I don’t like how the look, how they feel and I most certainly hate every reason I’ve ever heard for getting them. The hatred ranges from the owners narcissism to social pressure and stupid standards driving… Read more »
In a swipe left/right/whichever realm maybe this becomes a stronger possible reality. But in a much smaller world where both sides are seeking real and substantive relationships (and not just “trolling for hotties” in fuzzy slippers on a Friday night) then I fail to see how this comes up where two people who communicate with respect and friendship. Granted I am entirely biased in the fact that I am a man trying to operate in a world with honestly and integrity, but alas I am not Patrick Dempsey (a simple social experiment I did proved that TFH is in full… Read more »
Seems like breasts and other commonly covered body parts would fit in the category of “wait until the other person brings that up first” on a first or second date. Don’t assume that you can tell the difference between natural and sculpted. Without knowing it, you may be telling a woman with implants that you don’t like implants. Also, it’s not clear when or how this information would ever be useful to a woman you’re dating. Maybe at some point she will care if your like *her* breasts, but she probably won’t be interested in your general preferences for all… Read more »
Totally agree with this! How level headed.
“Don’t whine. Good grief, stop whining! Dating sites are not matchmaking services. Dating sites are just virtual bars. Especially important, is the men on the site don’t owe you anything at all. They don’t owe you a wink back or an email or to follow through on the date they set up. It’s not very nice, but it’s true, and I think if you understand this, and understand that the service you are subscribing too is just a way to access single people to see if they would like to receive that wink, or not, you will be a happier… Read more »
Asking for a boundary is not whining.
And for God’s sake, don’t whine in an online dating profile! What you do in the rest of your life is your business. Whine all you want if someone will publish it.
I’m kinda with Mike on this one… I feel like I need more information. Where exactly are you finding these guys / man-children? Between undergrad, grad school, and the workplace, I’ve been around men… “from all walks of life”, let’s say, and even for the ones who are gleefully, unabashedly misogynistic as well as relatively shameless in social settings, this would be almost unheard of. A few guys passing around an iPhone looking at Facebook photos and asking, “real or fake?” is an infinitely more common scenario. There may be some issues to unpack there as well, but not quite… Read more »
So at what arbitrary line in the sand is it not verboten to menton other people’s body parts? Do enlighten us.
When you KNOW someone then it’s fine! (and you don’t generally know them on the first date…)
And I think you misread, Mike, because of the blonde/brunette example. Guys are saying they don’t like fake breasts as a cheerleading, “way to go!” kind of statement. Not because I have them.
You can blame the “Vagina Monologues” for there no longer being such a thing as TMI (too much information) or even standards for polite conversation. Every body part is open for discussion. Eve Ensler made vaginas acceptable dinner conversation Breasts are not even primary female sexual characteristics. Therefore they are appropriate conversational appetizers.
Context is everything, and in this context… sorry mate, but that’s a load of shit.
“The Vagina Monologues” is far from any sort of universal cultural phenomenon, and by extension, far from a universally accepted topic for dinner conversation casual banter. I’ve no doubt there are myriad forums available to discuss the socio-cultural impact of TVM, so let’s try to stay on-topic here, yeah?
I’m not trying to over simplify this, but it sounds like you’ve been dating a bunch of loser. On the bright side these guys are kind enough to let you know they’re losers by the second date. Obviously every guy has their preferences on their ideal partners body, but unless you ask for his opinion on some surgery you’re planning he has no place making you feel bad about a body you may, or may not have. It would be like a guy ranting to his brunette date on his love of blondes.