DamonYoung wonders how, in a society that claims to be accepting of women’s sexuality, the term “slut” is still so damaging.
This piece originally appeared at VerySmartBrothas.com
In the past few days, as I read about Rush Limbaugh being publicly rebuked by President Obama, learned of dozens of sponsors dropping their support of his radio show, and clicked on several different articles written by several very serious people accusing him of “slut shaming” — all in response to him referring to Georgetown University law student Sandra Fluke as a ”slut” last week — one question kept popping up in my head: Why is “slut” a bad word?
Now, this question is (obviously) rhetorical. I know exactly why slut is considered to be such a pejorative term. I also don’t mean in any way to suggest that Fluke shouldn’t have been offended, angered, hurt, and saddened by Limbaugh using a word like that to describe her.
Thing is, my question isn’t about Limbaugh or Fluke or the contraceptive controversy. It’s not even about the term itself as much as what it’s used to describe: a person (woman or man…but usually woman) who has (or had) many sexual partners.
If, as many progressive, open-minded and liberal people say they believe, having numerous sexual partners isn’t a thing that a person needs to be ashamed of, why is there still such a negative connotation attached to the words commonly used to describe people who fit that definition?
I know that words like slut and ho and skank are used to shame, but if the acts themselves aren’t shameful, how are those words still given that power, and why haven’t we thought of any replacements?
You can argue that the mere act of creating a word to describe a person’s sexual activity is judgmental in itself. That argument breaks down, though, when you realize that not only do we have words to describe all human activity, we have also have considerate (and occasionally condescending) euphemisms for any terms that may have any type of negative connotation. We all know that “seasoned” means “old” and “plus-sized” means “fat,” but we still regularly incorporate the code words because they just sound less derisive.
Promiscuity, though, has no such euphemism. There’s no generally accepted “kind” way of saying “slutty.” Perhaps someone reading this can, but I can’t think of a way a person can reference someone having a much larger than usual amount of sexual partners¹ and it not come across as potentially (and likely) incendiary. I’ve heard people ironically refer to themselves or their friends as “slut” or “ho,” but once you remove the irony and the tongue-in-cheekness, it always stings (or is meant to sting).²
I wonder if this is because, despite what we might publicly say, we — men, women, liberals, conservatives, feminists, womanists, and bigamists alike — all still kind of feel that there is something off with a person who sleeps around. Aside from some sense of complete coital autonomy, there doesn’t seem to be an upside to being promiscuous. Regardless of how safe and/or empowered a person might be, all the physical, mental, and emotional risks associated with sex increase with the number of partners you have, and it does take a bit of cognitive dissonance to vehemently argue for someone’s right to be completely free of judgment while they engage in risky behavior. Perhaps “slut” still has pejorative power because our dissonance has its limitations.
I don’t know. I do know, though, that it looks like I have no answers to that rhetorical question.
¹”Much larger than usual amount of sexual partners” is definitely relative.²There’s an obvious parallel here between “slut/ho” and “nigger.” No further thoughts, just pointing that out.
Photo courtesy of d.loop
A friend and I were discussing this issue this weekend, and during the discussion, I decided that I was going to appropriate the word “slut,” at least for myself. She had complained that there’s no way for sex positive people to claim their identities in an outré way, contrasting this with the gay appropriation of “queer.” Now I’ve always been psychologically picky (psychological energy is much more risky than STDs, as far as I’m concerned,) but I’ve never really been monogamous for long. So I think I’m a slut; being a slut is good; and that there are a lot… Read more »
@Hank Vandenburgh: “So I think I’m a slut; being a slut is good; and that there are a lot of us out there.”
Yes, yes, and yes! 🙂
Since words have the meaning we give them, I totally agree with positively empowering the word “slut”.
Thus I’m a pig :o) and a slut, and I’m proud of it! My GF is a slut as well, and I often tell her that I love her being slutty. 😉
Long live the sluts! 😆
Perhaps it helps to look at other words used to degrade people and why those words continue to hold the power they do in what you call a “progressive” society. Most intelligent, progressive people will naturally say that racial slurs are degrading, immoral, and are used to promote ideologies that have set our society back for hundreds of years. And they’d be right. These words all mean “person of _____ race” — using them does mean that “person of ____ race” is bad and therefore the word is bad, it’s used the other way around isn’t it? People in a… Read more »
Mmm, I don’t think “God, that girl is such a smoker,” has quite the same impact. Similarly, “Did you see what she was wearing? Wow, what a reckless driver.” Your theory about cognitive dissonance and risk has a ways to go, I think. Some of it, I suspect, may be tied up in the ‘women as gatekeepers of sex’ model of gender relations, and the related tendency of some men to use sexual conquests or the ability to get laid as a foundation of their self-esteem- or at least to bolster it. If women are active participants rather than prizes… Read more »
“Why is “slut” a bad word?” I think the easiest and most effective answer is: “Because (or when) sex is seen as negative”. If you see sexuality as positive (as it is for me), the most sex you have, the better your life is (well, of course you can have “bad sex”, but that’s a different scenario). Instead, many people (even “progressive” ones), still think sexuality is not good “per se”, but only if it’s within a committed monogamous relationship. There’s still this heavy stigma and suspicion on sexuality in itself. And especially on female sexuality. The author wrote “all… Read more »
Thank you so much for joining the conversation, Valter, and for bringing up some great points. Now if only you’d be as open minded about women who say they don’t care about penis size…
You’re welcome. 🙂
And I forgot to mention, in “my world” slut is a positive word (because it’s me who decides what meaning I attach to words). 🙂
Regarding penis size, I try to be open minded toward those ladies; and I’m sure some of them are sincere. But I also think some of them might be lying. 😉
After all, if no woman ever cared for penis size, that issue wouldn’t simply exist. 😀
“After all, if no woman ever cared for penis size, that issue wouldn’t simply exist.” When men define their masculinity based on their penis size, the issue of penis size will still exist. If the obsession with penis size was rooted in women’s desires, all measurements of the penis would be by girth rather than length. Penis size may matter to some women, but it is by no means going to be the same for every woman, because every woman’s vagina is different. Hence why some women prefer shorter, some prefer thicker, some prefer longer. Because their own bodies are… Read more »
I think the idea of “slut” goes in and out. It’s certainly more under patriarchy (yes, there is pre-patriarchy.)
Wilson has noted that around 10 percent of babies are not related to their ostensible father. Women may be with one man for security and tap another for his genes (seen as sexiness.) This is more likely around ovulation. Few people will ever check this out by genetic testing, etc.
That’s sad, about the 10 percent. I believe that a woman who chooses to have a child has no right to trick someone else into raising him/her. She can have sex with whomever she wants, but once she decides to bring a child into this world, she has a responsibility to everyone involved (her child, the people raising it, and the father), just like the father does. If her partner chooses to raise a child that’s not his, that’s fine, and very admirable. If two people enter into a relationship where there’s a child already there, that’s fine. Paternity testing… Read more »
Agreed Aya. I think we should have nationwide paternity testing at birth.
If for no other reason, the child has a right to know his medical heritage, and what pitfalls this may make for him.
““slut shaming” is not only old as humanity itself, it is both highly useful and…wait for it… Women engage in this practice to a much higher degree than do men.” I don’t think anyone has ever denied this. Except that it doesn’t always have to do with promiscuity. Women slut-shame other women because of their fashion sense, because their breasts or butt are too big, because they’re dating a guy some other girls like, because they wear their makeup incorrectly, because they talk about sex or have kinks, because they work at strip club or pose for pictures–a multitude of… Read more »
The following originally appeared on the blog Very Smart Borthas on Mar 5, 2012: “if you fail to grasp the fundamental truths of evolutionary psychology, everything else will only serve to confuse you.” – Obsidian Good morning champ, everyone, I was hoping that somebody in the afrosphere would broach the whole sandra fluke issue, because it has much deeper implications for black folk than it would appear on the surface; after all, black women get more abortions than any other group of women in the usa, and so on. So, it is my hope that at some point, we’ll have… Read more »
I do need to add that a pig like Limbaugh can probably only get laid by prostitutes and gold diggers. Generally agree with Buss.
And then he can throw money at the problem if there’s an ‘accident.’ I would say that a man who’s on his 4th wife, uses someone else’s prescription for his Viagra, and is still spitting vitriol against women is a ‘red flag’…Also, I’m not against prostitution, but I do need to say that say gold diggers are just better disguised prostitutes. They have sex with men they don’t find attractive in exchange for money and gifts. I guess this is the ‘economy’ we were talking about. 🙂
Someone mentioned “double standards” vs. “gender differences” up-thread. (Disclaimer: I skimmed the thread quickly…it isn’t my intent to mis-quote anyone). I’ll never fight for the right to use a urinal, and I don’t expect men to think that high heels that don’t come in size 15 is unfair, but the very important nuance concerning sexual double standards is the fact that sex between a man and a woman is not an autonomous isolated activity (like using a urinal or wearing high heels). The fact that sexual standards are in opposition creates an impossible situation. How can guys enjoy lots of… Read more »
There is actually a device out there that you can attach to yourself easily and mess free so that you can pee standing up, and it’s getting more and more popular. While rare, urinals have actually started popping for females. And the gets-more-popular-every-day Drag culture has made it so that you can definitely find high heels for men, if you know where to look. You’re right on with the last sentence. The whole situation makes no sense. I mean sure, in a ideal situation for many men, he’ll have a woman who’ll always be available for sex, faithful, few partners… Read more »
More likely that the female focused promiscuity stigma keeps men from being at a disadvantage to women. Women control sex and limits on female behavior lessen that control. The ideal situation for women is to have sex with men out of her league and hope one of the falls in love with her. If that does not happen and she gets old then she can always settle for a plan B guy. And maybe even have a baby by another man and pretend that its plan B guy’s so he will help her raise it. Taboos on women’s behavior may… Read more »
Actually, this stigma keeps marriage markets tight for women, and is to some women’s benefit. Trangulation here provided by Barry Dank’s (CSULB) study of older man – younger woman relationships. Older women want these stigmatized (see the unfortunate Hugo thread for more) because doing so increases older women’s chances of marriage. Same with slut calling, except the threat isn’t necessarily aged based. It’s another demonstration that evo psych is likely true, which shouldn’t be a surprise. I’m always amazed (not really) when feminism is congruent with sexual restriction. It really shouldn’t be, you know. But the halcyon days of Emma… Read more »
What constitutes a man being out of one’s league? Money? Looks? A good sense of humor? Being good in bed? Having a lot of talent? Being popular? Different women look for different things in men. Some want a man with money, some want one who’s a beefcake, some want someone who jokes with them for hours, some want the guy every other girl wants, some want security, some want a a really sexual man who’s willing to keep things interesting in the bedroom, and others someone who just compliments them and makes them feel like a woman–many want someone who… Read more »
“Just like taboos on men being creepy/pushy may actually make consent more fair and democratic” Yet, a lot of really good men out there are called creeps because they’re socially awkward, don’t know how to approach women, or have kinks. These men aren’t coming up and groping women on the streets, raping, or crossing personal boundaries, but they’re still considered ‘creeps’ because they don’t fit into certain standards set by society. They’re not ‘bad’ men unless they start to cause harm or spew hatred. Most men who are called ‘creeps’ don’t ever do that. Ideally: Maybe they’ll find the correct… Read more »
Not so fast with the “impossible situation”. If guys only date blondes then they may lose opportunities OR women may being coloring their hair.
And you’ve conflating more sex with more partners.
Makes me wonder what ever happened to “Sticks and stones may break my bones…”
As earlier mentioned to which I agree with, not shame-worthy but not praise-worthy either.
Unless the methods involved being of an unethical nature (subjective of course), then it might be considered shame-worthy.
For most women, running up a big notch count is not a difficult thing to accomplish. It may or may not be shame-worthy but it sure does not confer bragging rights.
you know, i’ve actually heard from a few female friends that having sex with guys — at least guys they actually want to have sex with — isn’t as easy as we (men) generally think it would be for them
“I’ll provide a parallel (Yeah that’s right, I’m bringing LGBT issues into this conversation too. Sue me)…So, if I totally and completely have no problem with being gay, why do I still get insulted when someone calls me a dyke? It’s not because I have some subconscious belief that being gay is actually wrong. It’s because if someone calls me a dyke, it tells me what their opinion of that word is.” Good explanation. This goes for so many words, from unimportant to important (from being called a nerd to having racial, sexist, homophobic, or ethnic slurs used against you).… Read more »
Close-minded ? there’s a difference between thinking something’s wrong and thinking something’s wrong & trying to put a stop to the person doing the action.
While i wouldn’t form a relationship with a promiscuous woman, i wouldn’t interfere in what she’s doing.
To many people have a unreal expectation of everyone opening their doors to them with a smile based on their lifestyle.
It will be a good day when the word “slut” finally disappears from our vocabulary and “stud” only mean a 2x stick of lumber used in framing, part of an earring or a type of post or bolt. When people can be the sexual beings they are naturally without judgment or derogatory remarks. When we can get over our insecurities and accept each other as equals in our sexuality no matter if we are straight, GLBT, monogamous, non-monogamous, poly or whatever. We are all similar yet unique individuals whether we’ve had three lovers or hundreds. It is not the quantity… Read more »
Is “stud” a negative term? I had only heard it in complimentary terms, as in a man who is attractive/good in bed. Did I totally miss the other meaning to this?
I think stud has more than one meaning. I meant that a guy who is promiscuous and sleeps with a lot of women is referred to as a stud (irregardless of how good he is in the sack) and a woman who sleeps with a lot of men is a slut. Double standard.
“When people can be the sexual beings they are naturally without judgment or derogatory remarks. ”
does this absence of judgment apply to all high-risk behaviors or just sex with dozens of partners?
“Slut” almost disappeared in the 1970s. Now it’s back. It’s a stupid word. Another word I’d like to see disappear is “creep.” Similar to slut against women, it’s used almost exclusively against men.
Good call, Henry on the creep/slut continuum. I don’t recall “slut” ever going away. Most of the instances in my experience, the word “slut” was been synonymous with “easy” or someone who has little forethought in the selection of partners, little regard for her own emotional safety or with self-esteem exclusively derived from the people who want to launch semen into her one way or the other. I can’t remember many personal instances when I heard the term used in anything other than a jocular manner. I understand that’s small comfort, especially to someone with hurt feelings. While I’d pass… Read more »
Agreed. ‘Creep’ and ‘Slut’ are just words that can only be used to hurt. Its working too if the number of rock songs named creep or with creep in the title are any indication.
Screw the rock songs. Lonely Island ft. Nicki Minaj’s version of ” Do the Creep” is my personal favorite (SNL). Followed closely, by TLC’s version. :p
I do like the way that “queer” has been reappropriated in a positive way. Maybe us randy guys can appropriate “creep-theory.”
“I want to f___ you but I’m makin’ conversation
I want to do you, but my face shows hesitation
I’m drinkin my tea
Thinkin you and me
But discussin bad TV”
…and so on…
Yeah, I don’t think a guy wanting sex should be called a creep anymore a girl wanting sex should be called a slut. I think they should all act in ways that are respectful though, in terms personal boundaries and not being an asshole (a term that goes for both sexes). I remember a guy on this forum calling an older woman (around 40, I assume) out for hitting on him in a bar and directly asking for sex. Women do this all the time, too. Older and very unattractive (I actually mean this more mentally than physically) men I’m… Read more »
“Screw the rock songs. Lonely Island ft. Nicki Minaj’s version of ” Do the Creep” is my personal favorite (SNL). Followed closely, by TLC’s version. :p”
i prefer the scala choir’s version myself.
“Aside from some sense of complete coital autonomy, there doesn’t seem to be an upside to being promiscuous”
Except that you get to have more sex. Which feels really good. And eases frustration, sexual and otherwise. If you’re not ready for a long-term relationship or unable to find a suitable partner, and there’s only so much your vibrator and porn can do. Even a week long thrill provides some great material for masturbation and relief. It is risky, though, I won’t deny. Even the best of physical precautions will not cure a broken heart or an unintended attachment.
Great article, though. It really makes you think. Wasn’t the picture used for another article at some point?
Promiscuity gives your more partners and risk than it does sex. If you want more sex then go friend with benefits.
That’s true, and it can be more fulfilling. The problem is that emotions can get in the way there, and if something bad does happen (jealousy, unrequited feelings), you end up losing a really good friend. It can also get incredibly awkward if not done properly. There are ups and downs to both.
Nothing is without risk/negatives, but those associated with FWB pale in comparison to those that accompany promiscuity… especially for women.
That is very true. If my wife chooses to have other lovers, I would much rather her have a few good FWB relationships than out sleeping with a lot of strangers simply because of the risk factor. And it is not just STIs; the nice guy she just met could be a serial killer. And there is always going to be a certain amount of attachment and love in any long-term FWB relationship. Even though you can have great sex without love and deep love without sex, in any interaction between two people that lasts for any length of time,… Read more »
What do you mean, especially for women? Like STD rates? Or like, crazy serial killers?
Both those gendered risks of course, but also as the OP refuses to believe, there’s reputation too. And the most critical one (the way I see it)… crappy sex. The walk of shame AND no orgasm! WTF?? Us guys do not nave that problem. Our good time happens even when the women we pair up with are low skilled strangers.
Let’s keep it real. The typical promiscuous sex…late night and drunk … is not likely to have a woman experience a man’s A game, even in the rare case that’s what he intends.
Promiscuous sex is implicitly gendered.
First of all…didn’t we have many discussions on this forum where many women made it clear that orgasm wasn’t all there was to sex or a man? And fun sexual encounters make for great masturbation material.
Since I was just talking about SNL and Lonely Island, if I ever anticipate having to do the ‘Walk of Shame’ you discussed, I’m going to bring a boombox and play “I Just Had Sex” really loudly. Look it up if you haven’t seen it.
I find the notion that orgasms aren’t very important to women or that a popular reason to have sex is for better masturbation impossible to believe.
Yup. I’ve seen it. And I’m surprise you mentioned it. Sandberg’s musical production about sex is as gendered as it gets.
You’re right, it is, and it’s awesome and hilarious, but it also goes for how many women feel, and my idea is a funny way to turn it around. But have you ever been a woman with desires? A mind blowing orgasm on the spot isn’t everything there is to it. It’s also being filled and touched and fulfilling a fantasy. I can’t speak for every woman though, but plenty on this forum have agreed with me. I can make myself orgasm 10 times within an hour if I’m not tired or drunk or self conscious. That’s not the point,… Read more »
@Aya
Lol.
Ya know. It’s not just women who have superior orgasmic response via DIY methods. So even us dudes understand what being with another person brings to the table over masturbation. But there is a big difference between sex and promiscuous sex. And promiscuous sex has way more upside and less downside for men than women. And that’s very consistent with women speaking of it as a “phase”.
PS. Promiscuity is only characterized by partner count, not defined by it. You misunderstand the term and so your viewpoints suffer accordingly.
And about the reputation suffering thing and walk of shame. There are many women who are getting to the point where they just aren’t caring any more in this generation. A select few are loud about it through things like SlutWalks, but many have just stopped caring or are starting to. Girls I know joke about doing the walk of shame gleefully. In a small town or conservative state, it would be a much bigger deal. Name calling and gossip are usless. What you do (and don’t do) in your bedroom or bedrooms is none of my business. This also… Read more »
“Except that you get to have more sex. Which feels really good. And eases frustration, sexual and otherwise. If you’re not ready for a long-term relationship or unable to find a suitable partner, and there’s only so much your vibrator and porn can do”
This statement seems to contradict. Perhaps I’m missing something, but if a person’s unable to find a suitable partner, how are they having enough sex to be considered promiscuous? And being promiscuous doesn’t necessarily correlate to having more sex. just means you either have more people inside of you or you’re inside of more people.
By ‘suitable partner,’ I meant suitable long-term partner–someone with whom you can see yourself in a relationship for a long time, not someone you’ll bang for a week or a ‘friends with benefits’ situation. Where you’ll get along, be able to hold conversations and also be silent while together, be sexy to each other, and keep the drama to a minimum. And you’re right, being promiscuous ABSOLUTELY means less sex and more effort put into it. Who wants to constantly be trying to pick up people from bars, finding safe people on the internet, dealing with the awkwardness of asking… Read more »
The word promiscuous does not mean what you think it does. Not all non married sex is promiscuous. There is nothing indiscriminate about friend with benefits. Whereas banging strangers…
You can still rack up partner count without banging strangers. Having several friends with benefits relationships (as you keep mentioning), hooking up with men/women you think it might go somewhere with but it ends up fizzling out, and having several failed relationships will do it, especially as you get older.
‘ Add to that experimentation. Does having a threesome add to the partner count?
I’m sorry that I haven’t been too clear on the term ‘promiscuous’ and have used it improperly. Words like it get tossed around a LOT. I guess what I said above then doesn’t make too much sense, then, since I’ve just seen it as ‘this number of partners, whatever that number might be’.
The word ” slut” is used to dehumanize and degrade women who challenge the status quo, who dare to speak up, who work in male dominated arenas, and fight for their rights…obviously, Rush Limbaugh uses Viagra and is considered a macho man (but never a “slut”, because a man who is sexually active is more acceptable than a woman who is sexually active)…. The bad word is used to shame the woman, but instead it should shame the person who would dare to insult someone with such a bad term…. My husband’s alcoholic, narcissistic friend insinuated as much when I… Read more »
@Leia everything you said about Rush is infact true. Just an observation but Please don’t take offense at this comment… Definition of Slut: Female= What’s between your legs has so little value, that you’ll give it out to every man you know. Male=What’s between your legs has so much value it’s your duty to share Your “GIFT” with all the women you know…you stud! Definition of Virgin: Male=What’s between your legs has such little value, NO women want’s it. Female= What’s between your legs has such a great value that it’s your duty to make sure that only the best… Read more »
weird how we put so much value on what’s going on between people’s legs.
That’s not a double standard anymore than a urinal is.
What you described is dimorphism.
Women get to choose what characteristics are important to them in men and men get to choose what characteristics are important to them in women. The consensus results do not need to match or we would be seeing lots of broad shoulder lingerie models.
We’ll have to agree to disagree, IDBY. The double standard completely takes away the concept of female (and even male pleasure). Sex shouldn’t be about economy, it should be about feeling good. What about gays, lesbians, bis, and asexuals? Does what’s in between the legs of two gay men less because they chose monogamy or to raise a family? What about the Shane stereotype in ‘L-Word?’ It’s still a bunch of women she’s having one night stands with (I know it’s a tv show, but there are plenty lesbians who go to bars to pick up women). You’re right on… Read more »
Why shouldn’t sex be about economy? I thought you were tolerant. Sex workers hate comments like this… especially from women.
As for individuality, you cherry picked the feel good part. Yup individuals decide for themselves, but that also means men will have a collective preference, and women will have a collect preference also. The result is that often times there will a difference between those two preferences.
Do you like your men with hips or are you guilty of a double standard? Because the male preference is for women with hips. Just sayin’
It CAN be about economy, if that’s your PERSONAL CHOICE. There are some wonderful sex workers, strippers, porn stars, and dancers out there who do use sex to make money. For many others, though, it’s just about pleasure and intimacy, and that comes in many different flavors. And I’ve had men with some amazing hips. 🙂
Like clockwork…
First you declare that “sex shouldn’t be about economy” then in the next comment you switch, but only after being called out of course.
… amazing hips to go along with their boobs right?
There’s a HUGE difference between treating sex that’s a JOB as economy, and treating it as economy when it’s in your personal life and for the sake of pleasure and intimacy. A sex worker goes to work, does her/his job, and gets paid. That’s economy. A person or couple just has sex because they want to.
“Why shouldn’t sex be about economy? I thought you were tolerant. Sex workers hate comments like this… especially from women.”
Sex work is economic, a relationship shouldn’t be, otherwise that’s just economic. If you are treating a sexual relationship like a business transaction, you’re destined for some serious failings. That’s a sign of a pretty unhealthy viewpoint.
“Because the male preference is for women with hips. Just sayin’”
Nice to know there is a universal “male preference” for women. And universally, women only like men who don’t act like IDBY? Wait, maybe that’s just me.
Ugh. It’s not logical framing. It’s unfairly targeting a certain demographic of the population and making them bear the cost of a decision that should be mutual. Men are not forced to examine their sexual behavior. Maybe we should reverse the standard and if a man wants to have sex with a woman then he must pay for the contraception.
You’re showing your true colors.
What do the popular words douchebag, womanizer, player, cheat, etc. etc. do if not force men to examine their sexual behaviors. You’re assessment is plain wrong and borders on a lie. And men already pay for contraception. This type of contraception is called a condom.
What do the popular words douchebag, womanizer, player, cheat, etc. etc. do if not force men to examine their sexual behaviors. And let’s not forget going in the direction as well. Loser, pathetic, not a real men, etc…. shaming a man that doesn’t have “enough” sex. (Which btw also happens to women.) Men are not forced to examine their sexual behavior. What? Not forced to examine it? Goodness gracious men are indeed forced to examine our sexual behaviors in many ways like women just as I said above. Its mostly in the opposite direction but it can certainly go either… Read more »
“Men are not forced to examine their sexual behavior. Maybe we should reverse the standard and if a man wants to have sex with a woman then he must pay for the contraception.”
yeah, i don’t know if I can agree with this. we’re judged just as harshly, but for different things (“lack of sexual activity” being one of the most prominent). also, in every relationship i’ve been in, condom-buying/providing burden has rested on me. obviously can’t speak for every man, but i’m going to assume that most men reading this would say the same thing.
“also, in every relationship i’ve been in, condom-buying/providing burden has rested on me. obviously can’t speak for every man, but i’m going to assume that most men reading this would say the same thing.” Just saw this. And all the burden of buying, going to the doctor for, and keeping up with birth control in every relationship has rested on me, the woman. I can’t speak for all women either, but I assume most women reading would say the same thing. I’m also the one who brings up testing and keeps up with it. By the way, if you’re tested… Read more »
In all my relationships (since the late 80’s) I’d say it’s been pretty much 50/50. I’ve had exams, bought pills, bought condoms, been tested. My partners have bought condoms, been tested, and in the case of my marriage, I have no idea how funding would work in terms of who pays for what, it’s all one account.
@ William. Absolutely. I cannot control what other people say, or do. But, I can recognize if they are doing or saying something harmful and quite blatantly Limbaugh was attacking women. I don’t approve and I can’t change him, but I can call him out. I just don’t understand what he gains by using the word “slut” in the way he did (Nevermind. Jamie just answered that one) and I guess I’m asking others to ask what they gain by using the word in an insulting way. Like Heather said, no one likes to be insulted even if they are… Read more »
@Molly
The word is insulting only because of the person using it, a woman feels insulted because she knows the attitude of the person using the word to describe her is negative.
Slut, Whore, Hoe & Promiscuous, all have the same meaning but are different terms.
“Slut” is not just a term used to describe a person with many sexual partners. (Although in the case of men being called sluts, that may be the case. Any time men are called sluts (which is RARE), it is usually as a joke…haha he’s such a slut! AKA he’s had sex with so many people!) Implicit in the term “slut”, when used against a woman, is a negative and derogatory opinion of a woman who perhaps has had many sexual partners, or maybe has not! As in the case of Sandra Fluke, the word “slut” is used often as… Read more »
Ever heard of QED?
Fluke got called a slut because she tried to typify contraceptive cost as astronomical (3000 dollars). The term was not used to silence her, but to make fun of her obvious political tall tale. Of course rather than deal with her hyperbolic bad math, she simply pulled out the tired “silenced women” meme… while on national TV.
I will honestly say I don’t know what the cost of birth control is for many women, with or without insurance. But that’s hardly the point. Politicians — Obama, Romney, Santorum, et al. — make gross exaggerations everyday about any number of subjects–healthcare, budget deficits, national defense, etc–, without being vilified as “sluts”. Even if she was flat-out lying, it seems irrelevant and kind of baffling to call her a slut. How does using a derogatory term relating to her [apparent] sexual behavior have anything to do with her creating a “political tall tale”? Even if the term was NOT… Read more »
What he gains is logical framing.
His position is simply this. If Fluke truly spends so much on contraception ($3k) then she ought to examine her sexual behavior rather than trying to mandate others pay for her sexual lifestyle. The slut/prostitute moniker therefore was very relevant and Fluke opened that can of worms when she quoted such an absurd cost and whined about affordability and mandates.
As for leniency on exaggerations, Fluke was testifying as a citizen. She was not campaigning as a politician.
Correlating contraception expenditure with sexual activity suggests that female contraception is used each and every time it is purchased. That is incorrect. Birth control pills have to be taken every day to be effective, even when you do not have sex every day. Unused condoms that are kept in the drawer must be replenished after they expire. Birth control shots have to be administered every three months. Frequency of sex is not correlated to sexual activity. Anyone making that argument is uninformed at best, an idiot at worst. This is why Rush’s comment is a baseless attack.
*typo = frequency of sex is not correlated with female contraceptive use.
Lol. Nope and Nope! When the cost concerned have chosen the bulk rate method over the ala carte rate method and still come out broke, then it is because they are doing “X” a whole lot. This is true if we are talking about mass transit (taking the bus), mass mailing (sending packages) or mass pregnancy prevention (having sex). Please really think about what the declaration “I can’t afford my bus pass” really means. Correlation, smorrelation! And the FDA just issued two highly publicized BCP recalls due to sequencing .The media knows how the pill works. There is no way… Read more »
No, you cannot buy a legitimate BCP in “bulk”. It is a prescription. You have to take it every single day in order for it to work even just once. You have to take it for an entire month before you even expect to have sex. You have to constantly get the prescription refilled by a doctor or pharmacy. The educated media may know how the BCP works, but apparently Rush and maybe a few idiots posting here do not. The only birth control medication that can be directly correlated with sexual activity is Plan B. How is being prepared… Read more »
Thank you, Royale. 🙂 And this goes back to what you said below. The same men who claim that men should want sex and spread their seed (and are probably complaining about having to use condoms) are the ones trying to have women ‘re-examine their lifestyles,’ have less sex, and who don’t support easy access to effective birth control. What? Good point on the Plan B being the only form of birth control that could possibly be correlated with frequency of sex. The rest of birth control has to be in place, whether you’re having sex with a different guy… Read more »
Fluke testified to support a mandate that OTHERS pay for her contraception. The point is that whether you are promiscuous or not, if you want others to foot the bill for your lifestyle choices it’s no longer “your thing”. Your emotional comments are intellectually dishonest.
IDBY is correct. By making the employer pay the whole bill, the law loses its moral grounding. (I’m in favor of this law in a modified way.) Standard co-pays should apply. Then the purchase is made by both the employer and the employee. Thus the employer loses his/her sole “right” to pass judgement on the law.
Wow. Just wow!
1. You struggled with such a simple conceptualization. Land lines are “bulk” telephony. BCPs are “bulk” contraception and so is the IUD. Pharmacy Smarmacy.
2. Complaining about name calling from a talking head while flinging around “idiot”??
3.Not only are there other birth Control medications correlated with sexual activity, but Plan B isn’t even the only BCP med applied ala carte style.
4. You closed with questions that are both rhetorical and tangential???
Fluke didn’t bring up anything about her sexual history. She has not said whether she has used birth control, she has not indicated if she has even had sex. So Rush was just calling her a slut because he didn’t agree with her, not because of her sexual history, because he had NO IDEA what her sexual history was.
Maybe someone needs to tell the SlutWalk people that.
SlutWalk people are taking the word back for themselves, as the gay community as done with the word “queer.”
I can call myself a slut all I want, you can’t call me a slut, no one can. It’s about being in control of labels and words.
If you insist in using the word in reference to yourself, you are thereby arguing that there is no harm in you being referred to as a slut.
Call yourself whatever youwant as long as you understand that that action gives others license to refer to you as a slut as well.
No, Heather is explained this better up above, if you care to look. The difference is if someone else is calling me that as a slur, it tells me they think less of me as a person, they think I’m a bad person, they are judging me. If I call myself a slut, it’s a joke to myself, but I don’t actually consider myself a slut (because the word slut means absolutely nothing). “Call yourself whatever youwant as long as you understand that that action gives others license to refer to you as a slut as well.” Um, no. I… Read more »
A word can have many meanings, and that meaning can change depending on who says it and how they say it. I think this is where we get stuck. We can never make the word mean something to someone else. We only have the power to make that word mean something to ourselves. Limbaugh is saying the word “slut” to disempower and not empower those he is referring to. If you are not saying these words to lift and improve others’ thoughts about themselves and peers, then you shouldn’t be saying them.” You say we can never make a word… Read more »
“I wonder if this is because, despite what we might publicly say, we — men, women, liberals, conservatives, feminists, womanists, and bigamists alike — all still kind of feel that there is something off with a person who sleeps around.” I’d sort of point to what Molly said, in that a word has different meanings depending on who is using it and who is listening to it. So I don’t think the problem is that we all still think that promiscuity is somehow bad…but rather that there are some groups of people who do old that opinion, and they use… Read more »
“It’s not because I have some subconscious belief that being gay is actually wrong. It’s because if someone calls me a dyke, it tells me what their opinion of that word is.”
That was much more eloquent than how I could have phrased it and it’s completely true.
“So, if I totally and completely have no problem with being gay, why do I still get insulted when someone calls me a dyke? It’s not because I have some subconscious belief that being gay is actually wrong. It’s because if someone calls me a dyke, it tells me what their opinion of that word is.
Hope that made sense.”
it did.
This is where it gets complicated. Communication is not an easy thing and we shouldn’t pretend it is. A word can have many meanings, and that meaning can change depending on who says it and how they say it. I think this is where we get stuck. We can never make the word mean something to someone else. We only have the power to make that word mean something to ourselves. For example, women who have multiple partners, or men who have multiple partners and are respectful and honest should not be ashamed of owning the word “slut.” They are… Read more »
If you are not saying these words to lift and improve others’ thoughts about themselves and peers, then you shouldn’t be saying them.
does this apply to all words/terms, or just “slut?”
Slut is a bad word because “bad” is implicit in the definition.
Slut calls out the negative aspects of a woman’s particular sexual behavior/motives/choices. It is more than just a reference to her partner count. Partner count is simply the numerical identifier just like a woman’s SAT score is used as an identifier of intelligence, or FICO for her financial management skills.
It is more than just a reference to her partner count. Partner count is simply the numerical identifier just like a woman’s SAT score is used as an identifier of intelligence, or FICO for her financial management skills.
I see what you’re saying, but I think those two things — number count and behavior — are thought to be too closely related to make a clear distinction.
It depends on the political context. See Maher, Olberman, Letterman et al.
Women are strong, empowered, can take it. Unless it is useful to pretend they can’t. Worked, years ago, with a tough young woman, now a tough woman my age, who led the march to the fainting couch when Summers asked a question at Harvard about women and STEM.
The got a $50 million women’s center out of it.
So “slut” and any other word you can to mention is AWFUL, or not, depending on if there’s any money in pretending to be ruined by it.
“Women are strong, empowered, can take it. Unless it is useful to pretend they can’t.”
Um, no. I have never had anyone call me a slut, fortunately, but I had one person call me a bitch, once, and I was so upset I was shaking when I was home alone.
But yes, I suppose that was all an act, for the cats also in the house, I guess. Women just pretend to be upset when people call them derogatory slurs.
Hard for me to be respectful of your comments, Richard Aubrey. Christ. You think women “pretend to be ruined by it?” I hope your next lifetime is spent as a teenaged girl dealing with all the factors I dealt with, including being called a slut by her boyfriend after acquaintances of both raped her. I am empowered now, thanks to 20 years of healing, activism and a whole lot of money spent on therapy and other healing modalities. I’m lucky I had those resources to spend. And yet, empowered as I now am, the word still causes me an emotional… Read more »
The term “slut” is only used by woman on men in a futile attempt to hold both genders to the same standard. The only situation where a man is seen in a negative for having multiple sexual partners is by a woman who is hesitant to get involved with him for fear of being seen as a slut herself. The word is shameful because people see the act itself as shameful, changing the term won’t do anything seeing as how we have multiple terms for it already. You can never be free of judgment. We are human, we judge the… Read more »
“You can never be free of judgment.
We are human, we judge the things around us to better understand the world and make our lives better.”
that’s an issue I’ve always had with the “slut-shaming” push back. whether it’s cigarette smoking, texting while driving, or being a laker fan, we judge all risky behavior. why should sex be the only thing impervious to judgment?
Because sex is not inherently risky and it is something everyone engages in, unless you are celibate or asexual. We would have to shame everyone then. It’s only risky if your sexual behavior is risky, like not using condoms and never getting tested. But people don’t wait to hear how responsible your sexual practices are, they assume that more partners = more risks taken, which is not always the case. Not to mention, someone who is called a slut is only rarely called so due to actual behavior. More often, it is applied to women wearing certain types of clothing,… Read more »
“Slut” is a bad word because society considers that women who had large number of sexual partners are bad. Society has not more open-minded and accepted women’s sexuality, but it has become more hypocritical and pretends to accept it on the surface and despise it reality.