Women have voices about sexual boundaries in their relationships. We need to welcome them.
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As a sex therapist, I have watched many disagreements and arguments play out about sex and relationships. One of the most heated and controversial topics surrounds porn use. Despite all of the perspectives and points-of-view, there is one thing that is generally quite clear. Women tend to have more issues with the porn use of their partners than do men. Many therapists hold strong beliefs that these women are being unrealistic and irrational. However, when therapists keep to this perspective, they can work against the client relationships that they were hired to help with.
In my work with other therapists, I’ve heard these women be described as controlling, manipulative, overbearing and insecure.
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Gender inequality and power imbalances go unnoticed in many disagreements about porn. When women have problems with their partners’ porn use, they can be looked upon from a lens that is critical, shameful, and even hateful. They can be viewed as the ones who need to fully compromise. Yet, the perspectives of these women are just as critical in building relationship connection as those of men. Relationships can’t move forward without trust and acceptance of the other person. Regardless of what therapists believe about pornography, any woman who has a problem with it should be encouraged to speak up and share this, rather than shamed for doing so.
On the topic of porn use, inequality issues make women stand out. For those who seek out therapy, the majority of complaints about porn use come from women in straight relationships. When men identify porn use as a problem, they make a personal decision to stop using it. They’re rarely giving up a sense of power and control.
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These noticeable gender differences about porn usage can lead to valid questions from psychotherapists. It is important to understand gender differences in relation to this topic. By asking tough questions, therapists can facilitate research that can help the psychotherapy field further understand differing perspectives about pornography use, sex, and relationships. However, these social perspectives and theories aren’t going to be significant to a woman who identifies a problem with this in her relationship.
In my work with other therapists, I’ve heard these women be described as controlling, manipulative, overbearing and insecure. There are times where these descriptions might be true, but it doesn’t mean that their perspectives shouldn’t be heard. As therapists, when we’re feeling judgmental about the insecurities that these women have, we have to remember why many of these insecurities are there in the first place. We teach women that they will find one man who will become their everything. We also teach women that they aren’t enough unless they’re being everything to their family. This can include being their husbands’ sexual everything. So it’s no wonder that these women might feel concerned about their husband’s sexual pleasure coming from looking at other women. We need to practice empathizing, rather than judging.
As long as there is no conflict, then there is no problem. It’s up to the people in the relationship to make these decisions about the outcome of their compromising.
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Regardless of the source of their problems with porn, women are just as capable of making decisions about their own relationship boundaries. Psychology and therapy have a long history of pathologizing women for holding to perspectives that are outside of the comfort of men. In relationships where there are differing perspectives about the appropriateness of porn use, both peoples’ perspectives are valid. It’s their reality. The men who are watching porn shouldn’t be shamed for watching it, but the women in their lives shouldn’t be shamed for having concerns about it either.
Many relationships have pornography as a healthy element in their relationship. Sometimes they share in this together, while other times they use this as individual release and expression. As long as there is no conflict, then there is no problem. It’s up to the people in the relationship to make these decisions about the outcome of their compromising.
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In most relationships, the compromise is less important than having both people feel seen and understood. No good compromise will come unless this happens first. Some couples might give up their perspectives for the other person, but this will only increase the chances for long-term resentment. When therapists struggle with empathizing and accepting women, they risk encouraging this resentment.
Heterosexual relationships inherit an imbalance in power related to gender. It’s true that each couple works through this differently, but it’s also true that in our society, men hold the majority of this power. They typically make more money, their perceptions are more valued, and they’re allowed to be more open about what they want. These differences in power can make it so that men don’t accept influence from the women in their lives. It’s an uncomfortable truth, but this dynamic can’t go ignored when discussing pornography use, and the relationship issues that can come with it.
When a relationship is struggling, it’s not about the beliefs that the “experts” have about porn.
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As a therapist, I’ve discovered the importance of allowing people to live their own lives. When clients come in for therapy, they’re needing help, not judgment. People choose their own partners, and have their own boundaries. When a relationship is struggling, it’s not about the beliefs that the “experts” have about porn. It’s not even about science and facts. It’s about the feelings, and communication and validation of these feelings.
Women have voices about sexual boundaries in their relationships. We need to welcome them. It’s fine to have disagreements about porn’s place in relationships. However, we need to recognize that the issue is much more complex than “women need to get over men’s porn use.” Instead, therapists need to accept cultural baggage surrounding women’s sexuality, so that we can value their voices in their relationships.
Source: 30dB.com – Pornography vs Pornography
Photo: Getty Images
Hi Michael – Yes, I understand that the article is not necessarily against porn and masturbation. (Although there will come a point where we will have to honestly and sincerely face how men enjoy showing women depicted through their sexual material without coddling men and telling them that everything they want sexually is okay because we are more concerned with not hurting men’s feelings over porn instead of taking a truly hard look at what porn has become and how tropes and objectifications of women are upheld in our media and thus our culture.) On that note, I’m not against… Read more »
Perhaps I am rather naive, but the situation you desribe here seems rather unusual to me.
Any person or couple I know that has been to therapy, have been treated in rather the polar opposite way. That the most consideration should be shown the person with the “firmer” boundaries.
Thanks FlyingKal. I think that it could be true, but what I’m trying to convey here isn’t just about boundaries. It’s about the boundaries of women, and our tendency to pathologize their perspectives as less significant.
Michael Salas, this is good article
You express all this so well. Thank you!
I am a woman , and do not set up boundaries for others, I set them up for myself.
Thanks Kim
Michael! Thank you SO much for this piece. It’s amazingly thoughtful, generous, insightful and respectful of BOTH sides. Thank you especially for saying this: “Regardless of the source of their problems with porn, women are just as capable of making decisions about their own relationship boundaries. Psychology and therapy have a long history of pathologizing women for holding to perspectives that are outside of the comfort of men.” Women having true autonomy on this topic is sorely lacking. It remains a boys club. When I first discovered men’s porn use, I sought out a lot of resources from both professionals… Read more »
Thank you Erin. I am so surprised that lots of men never seem to understand . Last week I made a comment on an other article here on GMP, where the issue was young men’s right to say no to sex. A right I fully support, of course. But when I then asked if one can say no to the use of porn , i got this response “Your comment reeks of controlling behavior”. Frankly I wonder why a woman is seen as reeking with controlling behavior the second she brings porn into the discussion of our rights to have… Read more »
I totally hear you Kim. I think these men believe that porn is giving them some kind of control of their sexuality over the doubt, insecurities, fears and questions they have about how to interact with real women. Most men start very early developmental relationships with porn and I think they are especially sensitive and defensive about it. Not only are we told we are controlling if we don’t thing porn should be part of a relationship but we are also told we are just insecure or trying to shame him. Well for one thing, yeah! Sometimes women are insecure… Read more »
Erin It is hard to understand what sex ,having sex ,making love means to men. They seems to think it is their right to have a harem online and mastrubate to oftern all these different women. And at the same time they expect us to see this as if they are innocent small boys just playing with themselves. But they are grown men now. But in any conversation here about sex in romantic relationship, they tell us they want the CONNECTION. I wonder do they have sex with all the women and men in pornvidos just to feel the connection?… Read more »
Wow. Good points Kim. So true. I personally think porn is about disconnection. Which may be why so many men appear to have different rules for themselves when it comes to porn and sex in general. I think men are addicted to the disconnection of it all but still want the connection with their real life gfs or wives when it suits their own needs and agendas. Add that to a culture that pretty much sells the idea that women exist, not to enjoy sex like men enjoy it, but to visually and sexually please men at all costs to… Read more »
“And I look forward to the day a man can explain to me what he means when he tells me has sex with his wife,or girlfriend because he needs the connection.” I would try, as I’ve done again and again, but you wouldn’t understand because you don’t want to hear it. And 2 days later you’d be back with a similar rant about how women are selfless and oppressed and always have a reason (not excuse,but reason) for what they do, while med are just mean, stupid and lazy… But just shortly, I don’t think that anyone in a romantic… Read more »
Yes Flyingkal
When it comes to the phenomena porn I see women as more oppressed than men and I am not afraid to say so even if it pisses all the porn lovers off.
Hi KIM,
So per your own words, you’re not really here to listen to what others have to say on matters you dislike, not even if they make an effort to try and answer your own questions.
Flyingkal I do learn a lot from men on this website. And every day I learn more. I also learn a lot from bright well articulated women like Erin . You are angry now ,maybe because I do not understand why so many men on this website tell us that they have sex because they want the connection. Because then I struggle to understand why porn is so important to many men. I can not see how they can experience any connection with women in a pornographic video. What I can understand however is that men can experience a connection… Read more »
Yes, whatever. I never claimed that men experience any kind of connection with women in videos, nor do I know of anyone who does. So I’m not angry in particular. I just find it interesting that although you sometimes claim you want to understand men, you keep returning to and referring to certain hyperboles that is rarely, if ever, used by the people you are discussing with. Making love with someone you love and have an intimate connection with is the best thing in the world. But if you can’t have that? If no-one sees you, or want to touch… Read more »
Flyingkal this article is about the use of porn when you are married. If you are single and nobody in Sweden wants you then why don’t you go to another country to find a wife that value you and what you can offer? Or you can go as you do and fill the void with porn, but I can not imagine how that can take the pain away ever. Does porn take away pain,longing , give you what you need to be happy. i am not going to take your porn away from you. And yes I have read the… Read more »
“I just find it interesting that although you sometimes claim you want to understand men, you keep returning to and referring to certain hyperboles that is rarely, if ever, used by the people you are discussing with.” While we may not always agree with one another, I think it’s fairly obvious that KIM and I are here because we are making an effort to understand male perspectives. KIM sometimes does a better job of this than I do. Does that mean we always get it or men? No. Does it mean we always agree with men’s perspectives? Again no. But… Read more »
One more thing Flyingkal.
You get annoyed with me, I guess.
Yes I admit I do not understand men sexually.
And remember you also have asked the same question again and again here on this website.
So you struggle to understand and so do I.
Many have tried to answer your questions as well Flyingkal and I am not at so sure that solved your problem with women.
If it is an provocation that I ask questions then be smart ,just do not read any of my comments. Just ignore them :).
Read this.
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/need-intimate-sex-bbab/
Try to put away your prejudice and your knee-jerk “What about the womens?”. Just read it. And all of it, not just the headline.
I think KIM and myself did a pretty good job of responding to comments without having a ‘knee-jerk’ response. No one attacked you, just disagreed. You might not like what was said but it still has merit and value. This is not an issue that just affects men. So refusing to listen to us and even go as far as mocking us by using the “what about the womens?” isn’t fair FlyingKal. This is an issue that affects both sides. As far as prejudices….just huh? I don’t even know what that means. You see us (or me or KIM) as… Read more »
@ KIM “Your comment reeks of controlling behavior”. I think a lot of times it’s a function of extent. A guy syas to a woman that he doesn’t want her talking to men even her male friends before their relationship would be called controlling and I’d agree that he was. Everyone has a right to their deal breakers. If porn viewing is a deal breaker for you then you should tell him. Just don’t blame him if he chooses porn as that’s his choice as well. Aside from the two extremes, I think things can be negotiated. Men, at least… Read more »
Hi John Yes I am well aware of studies like the one you show here. I have never said men should not masturbate if they feel like it! Never have I said that. This article is about pornoprahy not about mastunation . It is a pity that Michael Salas is unable to comment since he is qualified to tell us If this dissociation is a healthy normal thing for men or if it is not. Even if men can dissociate more easily sexually , does not mean use of hard core porn have no effect on them . Can men… Read more »
KIM When it comes to masturbation porn is am aid. Let’s say that you need to buy a greeting card and the store is a mile away. You could walk there. It’s better for the environment and it more healthful for you as you get exercise, yet people still elect to drive because it’s easier, more pleasurable (it might be hot outside), it’s faster, etc. and sometimes porn is necessary. For me, sometimes a picture of a beautiful woman is sufficient, but that only covers certain fantasies. Sometimes the picture of a nude woman is sufficient, but that only covers… Read more »
Hi John I like you. You are patient and I understand you actually like women , and you are not judgemental . I am not sure the girlfriend that gave her boyfriend a blowjob everything he wanted it will say the same after 5-10-15-20-40 years of marriage. Maybe that is how some couple live. I really do not know , but I question how smart it is to give sexual favour all the time in marriage If you not like and if you do not enjoy it , but you only so to please the man and stop him asking… Read more »
John To continue ” If she is going to make demands on his sexuality ….he gives up something he enjoys ” Hmmm. This article here is about married couples. I don’t know what kind of contract marriage is in America , but usually it is a contrary about economy and SEX. So for a married person , man or woman to say ” you make demands on my sexuality and if I have to give up something I enjoy they you have to give me something in return” This does not make sense to me John . If I understand… Read more »
In marriage, there are certain things that have been negotiated, but there is a balance. For example, I won’t have sex with some one else, but she agrees to give up the same. Porn isn’t having sex with some one else. For example, would it be fair if a man told his wife that she needed to get rid of her sex toys because it was too much like a penis or because it was bigger than his? In fact, why wouldn’t women demand it of each other or demand that it not be manufactured as vehemently as they demand… Read more »
I also wonder why there is such a premium placed on sex. A guy who doesn’t like dancing, but on occasion dances with his wife because she likes to dance is not considered abused nor is their relationship considered threatened, but you might expect the same result if she demanded that he dance with her or allow her to dance with another man every time she wanted to. People might even suggest he was being silly or controlling since it’s just a dance. There in I think is the crux of the matter: moderation, communication, and compromise. Obviously, a woman’s… Read more »
John “I wonder why there is such a premium placed on sex”. Maybe it is because of the rules and regulations given us by religion. I found marriage to be pleasant in so many ways but marriage sex not so much :(( and my husband would say the same. ….. And to your comment on sex toys that looks like a penis. I am surprised that women buy them and at the same time say they do not get an orgasm from vaginal intercourse . I often read 15-30% of women say they can not reach an orgasm from vaginal… Read more »
Typo
Only a small percentage of women (25-30%)say they get an orgasm from vaginal intercourse .
John I am not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean that a man using porn can be see as the same as a woman using a penis shaped vibrator? I have tried a few vibritors ,I guess most women have out of curiosity . But I do not use them. So if my man told me to have any, then it would not be a problem at all. I gladly throw away sex toys if the man not use porn. I don’t need any sex toys, but many men will say they “need ” porn. Maybe their… Read more »
Erin,
Thank you for your bravery about sharing your perspective. I think that many may feel similar to you, but have not been respected in this.
Also,
Keep in mind that this article is not an article arguing against porn and masturbation. It’s talking about men accepting influence of women as they would men in regards to sexuality, which means hearing them out.
Michael
Thanks for the reminder .
It is easy to forget the author and his article and what is all about :).
Michael – I admit to being against the first, but not the second. But I will say that whenever this conversation does come up, men in general are very sensitive to making sure we are not against porn. As if we need to be sensitive to porn’s feelings. Never mind how much the majority of male-heterosexual normative porn does everything in it’s power to distort and exploit women and their sexuality. Or to make average, regular women feel like less because we fail to embody all the womanly qualities we often see represented in men’s fantasies.