Joanna Schroeder has some questions about how the apparent lack of discipline against the U.S. Military members involved in the Colombian sex scandal reflects America’s view of prostitution.
A Reuters story from Sunday centered around the case of the U.S. Secret Service members who hired Colombian prostitutes while on a presidential visit to the country, but it also pointed out that U.S. Military personnel were involved in the scandal as well, though they’re getting less media attention. And while the Secret Service members were immediately sent home and disciplined with a speed we Americans aren’t used to seeing from our government, officials from the military are reacting differently:
[T]he involvement of U.S. military personnel and Secret Service agents in a raucous April outing with prostitutes in Cartagena, Colombia, has underscored the gaps between the written policies and real-life experiences at military assignments around the world.
While the Secret Service has acted promptly and openly, even announcing Friday new ethics training and policies for traveling agents, the military has stayed mostly mum about how it is addressing possible violations of its prostitution rules.
Reuters goes on to explain that it’s not as if the U.S. Military takes no stance on prostitution or the hiring of prostitutes. For personnel violating the policies against engaging in prostitution (even in countries where paying for sex is legal), penalties include a year in jail and dishonorable discharge. Reuters continues,
They also face country-specific instructions at bases like the U.S. installation in South Korea, where the policy describes prostitution as “cruel and demeaning.”
Senator John McCain criticized the Pentagon for not being more open about the proceedings in the case of these officers, and another U.S. Senator, Lindsay Graham (R), who serves on the Armed Services Committee admitted that he believes the military does not strictly enforce the seven year-old Department of Defense policy.
When asked, Senator McCain insisted that paying for sex is not an innate part of being in the military and cited his quarter-century of being a member of our armed forces as an example of an exception.
All of this cannot help but raise a few questions, and they are similar to the questions raised domestically for civilians in regards to sex work. First, what is the point of an anti-prostitution law or policy if nobody upholds them or enforces them? Is it simply to save face?
Second, do anti-prostitution laws actually protect prostitutes or put them in greater danger?
Third, is paying for sex something so innate to humanity that even when faced with the possibility of dishonorable discharge and a year in jail, members of the military still engage in it?
Fourth, would we feel differently about this scandal were the prostitutes American women?
Finally, is prostitution, as the U.S. Forces of South Korea puts it, “cruel and demeaning”? And if so—or even if not—who are we non-sex-workers to decide whether it is?
What do you think?
Apart from whether or not you think prostitution should be legal or allowed by the U.S. Military, given that this policy is in place, what actions should be taken against the members of the military who were involved in the Colombia prostitution scandal?
Photo: AP
It’s a well-known fact that women can get sex anytime they want. Men generally get sex by impressing women with money; or because they have a certain skill, like the ability to play the guitar; or because they are extremely alpha. Men who aren’t alpha, lacking in skills and money, will rarely, if ever, have the chance to experience something that is inborn in all of us. If anything, I feel as if men are victims. Victims of nature. Men shouldn’t be deprived just because someone has moral hang ups. If a non-trafficked escort wants to take my money and… Read more »
Well said Mark. I understand though, that Men are a victim of both government laws and feminist ideology. A co-conspiracy. It works out well for both of them… follow the money.
Another female centric victim based view… yet again. I’m soooo sick of it all. Look up”Sex Tourism and Male Prostitution: European Women Travel to Africa In Search Of Young African Men For Sex”for full article. Some quotes: “Sex tourism is not just “specific” to just “one gender”, yet the Occidental media has always framed this as a male only domain. We all have watched the documentaries about European or North American men traveling to Asia, Africa, or South America in search of young women for sex. Female sex tourism has gone on for decades yet now the mainstream media is… Read more »
It never ceases to amaze me how professional killers are venerated and honoured in society while professional happiness makers (sex often = happiness, if only for a short time) are villified. Can anyone explain this dichotomy to me? Is there something especially wonderful and great about killing people? Planning to killing people en masse? Carrying out the killing of people? I mean, some people have to die (Osama Bin Laden comes to mind), but the guy who put the bullets through his brain, is that what we all aspire to? Really? Rather than being someone who bring the joy of… Read more »
The issue is not consent or controlling a vice. The issue here is women in general. If our government says it is okay for a woman to degrade herself, that makes it perfectly okay for men to degrade her as well. Prostitution should not be legal anywhere. If there are regulated ways of continuing it, it will be an excuse for women to be harrassed as well. If the US, as a world leader makes it legal, the rest of the world, too, will see it as acceptable. This will destroy much of the prgress women across the world have… Read more »
The message you are sending is that it’s okay to for government to make consensual acts between adults that you don’t personally approve of illegal. This idea, today and throughout history, has resulted in horrific injustice and degradation far worse than that what you imagine would happen from the decriminalisation of prostitution. Women’s rights include being able to do what the hell they want to without your permission or approval. Otherwise you set their rights back, and the hard won rights to decriminalise gay sex, the opponents of which used exactly the same arguments about “sending the wrong signal” as… Read more »
People say there are no guarantees in life. BUT, I will give you one now.
Everyone who read this post , I will guarantee you that you know someone who is currently or did work a job they found demeaning and cruel.
YET, those jobs are legal.
Americans, especially those in power, seem woefully unable to understand the simple human rights principle called NAUWU, “Nothing About Us Without Us”. What it means is that any minority group, especially a marginalized minority like sex workers, have the right to a leading role in any discussion about laws or regulations which will affect that group. But in the Looking-Glass World of American prostitution law, actually knowing something about the topic, and even more so actual experience in it, is viewed as a disqualification. This is totally insane; in all civilized countries, sex workers have a prominent place in such… Read more »
I’m going to be really honest here. I’m a libertarian and completely support decriminalization, but your rhetoric makes me dislike your cause and sort of wish I disagreed with you.
“Nothing about us without us” isn’t a real thing, it’s clearly made up to support an agenda, and it’s done in an obvious manner.
If you are mostly interested in pushing people away, I guess you should keep it up, you’re doing a great job…
I disagree Mike L. The term “Nothing about us without us” may seem corny to you, but you seem to indicate that Maggie Mcneill is being disingenuous by using it, and I just don’t see any indication of disingenuousness in her comment.
If you get past your issues with the term, the basic principle she’s expressing is the idea that those directly involved in and impacted by laws/regulations should be explicitly part of the discussion.
That just seems like common sense to me.
Thank you, Shawn; as you surmised, there was absolutely disingenuousness in my comment. Mike L, I am also a libertarian, and in a perfect world it would be enough to say “there should be no laws against private behavior”. But we don’t live in a perfect world, and for the foreseeable future governments are going to keep making laws against private behavior whether we like it or not. Given that, as Shawn points out it is only common sense that the people who will be most impacted by laws should have a major role in designing them. And, I might… Read more »
Maggie McNeill, There are two fundamental problems with your arguments. First, I was referring to tone as well as content. As an American, I’m not really going to care about a speaker who tells me there are things I’m “woefully unable to understand.” The reality is that this kind of argument is usually used by someone who fails to recognize genuine disagreement – they characterize their opponent as “misunderstanding” rather than “disagreeing.” This is both insulting and an indication that the speaking is not interested in listening to the opposition. Even if the content problems disappear, the rhetoric still makes… Read more »
Mike L: I agree with your concerns about solely relying upon personal anecdotal experience to define policy. This type of rhetorical strategy is often employed by those with military experience, as if anyone who hasn’t been to war must necessarily have a less relevant position than anyone who has. So, I agree that we can’t solely rely upon these individuals to guide decisions. However, we must also recognize that even though their experiences don’t give us every perspective on all aspects of the issue, they have crucially relevant experiences that will often allude even the most conscientious researcher. How institutions… Read more »
Rachel Lloyd’s book, “Girls Like Us”, busts many myths about prostitution/sex trafficking…pimping, coercion, and manipulation is about human rights violation..and sickening when you see how so many young girls get ensnared into its web…We need to protect our daughters from falling into the trap…
But, I think there are still a few legitimate questions, even if you would prefer that nobody chose to be a prostitute and nobody chose to use prostitutes. Your comment presumes that marginalized people who opt for prostitution are more harmed by legal prostitution than illegal prostitution. This is hard to say for sure, but if we look at modern, wealthy countries where prostitution is legal, it seems as if legal prostitution is much healthier for all involved. Do you feel like the young people born into poor, drug ridden neighborhoods are better off if they go into an illegal… Read more »
At the end of my previous comment I meant to say, “Keeping prostitution ILLEGAL has…”
“And what if you are a college guy and every attractive women you know is paying the bills that way? What does that do to your dating prospects? How are you going to compete?”
I think the men would just end up getting used it. A woman can have a sugar daddy who pays for stuff on one side in exchange for sex and surface companionship (or be another type of sex worker), and a real boyfriend on the other. It’s not really a competition thing when you think about it. They would occupy very different niches.
If you think most guys would be ok with their girlfriend fucking an old man for money, then you know nothing about men.
Based on your other comments, you seem to be all for legalized prostitution…I’m confused.
I have to agree with Jimmy, I don’t think most guys would be happy about their girlfriends having sex with older guys for money . Just as I would not be too happy if I found out my boyfriend was visiting prostitutes. Maybe in a perfect world, no one is ever jealous or insecure, or, well, simply skeeved out by the idea…. I remember a movie (“Clerks”?) where a guy found out his girlfriend had given blow jobs to 35 different guys, or something like that, and he said, “Every time I kiss you, it’s like kissing 35 dicks”.
This is a complicated question because we can’t divorce this discussion from the reality that U.S. culture has presumed prostitution an inherent evil for hundreds of years. Also, lets not forget that for all of the money (legal & illegal) that we spend on sex in the U.S., and all of the healthy kink that exists now, we are still a very sexually repressed culture as compared with most other modern Western countries. I just wanted to premise what follows by saying that I recognize that what is logical and sensible in theory isn’t necessarily easily implemented in a culture… Read more »
Your last question is interesting to me — what does it mean for women to be treated as commodities …. I mean, we are already there to some degree. I’m 45, and I put myself through college and grad school 25 years ago by way of student loans, crappy temp jobs and Top Ramen. If sugardaddy.com had existed then, would I have been tempted? What if I could have sold my 22 year old body to a rich older guy for 2-3 years and graduated free of debt? Wouldn’t it have been nice to get through school with nice clothes… Read more »
@ Sarah That was one of the things that were going through my mind. When we discuss abortion rights, someone will argue that if the access was restrictive or if there were no abortion providers in the area, there is no meaningful right to an abortion. If a woman’s economic prospects are so dismal that in order to have a semi-acceptable quality of life they would have to turn to prostitution, would there be actual choice. Being three classes and an internship away from getting my masters, I know that there was more than an economic sacrifice. Congratulations on your… Read more »
“How are you going to compete?”
Please see the thread about young men playing video games and watching south park.
We do have medium to long-term contracts concerning money for sex, its called marriage. We call short term financial arrangements for sex prostitution and one is supposedly venerated and the other vilified.
While I have no problem with legalized prostitution, that’s and oversimplification. Sure, sex is a part of marriage (a big part), but marriage is also about sharing a home, children (or pets), trusting each other with each others’ finances, long-term companionship, taking care of each other in times of distress, and yes–love (call me old fashioned, but there have been plenty of articles on this site about how and why men love their wives).
Transhuman: The larger point I think you’re trying to make is somewhat legitimate – i.e. that we have very intimate and personal contractual arrangements in our society, and the “contract” of marriage implicitly includes sex. However, your comments imply that the key contractual function of marriage is money for sex, and that’s just not the case. Prostitution is explicitly about money for sex. And, a key point is that people are not compelled contractually to have sex on demand within the institution of marriage. Like I said, I think that there’s a small, but legitimate point about contracts that involve… Read more »
Some sections of the western world are inconsistent concerning their attitude to sex. I agree, marriage is more than sex but as pointed out, it is also about sex. Marriage is supported, respected, sought out, promoted by governments. Marriage includes an acknowledged component of sex and an exchange of resources. yet two adults who only want sex and exchange money is presented as deviant or harmful. Harm can come in marriage, and few people suggest it is the process of marriage that is to blame, it is acknowledged the harm comes the people who are engaged in the marriage in… Read more »
I agree with your framing here, and I completely agree that we need to put our sexual prudery behind us. It ultimately ends in unhealthy and deviant behaviors.
More women, yet again, parting there legs for money. So what. It’s not like there is anything sacred about their vagina’s. Women stuff all manner of odd looking things into them whenever they feel the need to pleasure them selfs anyway. So, U.S. military personnel and Secret Service agents? I’m picking it’s no problem for these women at all. Heck, they get paid and possibly pleasured. Thats has to be a win win for a whore. To answer your questions: 1) “what is the point of an anti-prostitution law or policy if nobody upholds them or enforces them?”. The point… Read more »
So I’m just curious, typically when we talk about the problems of prostitution we frame the issue around the sellers -wondering if anyone has studied the buyers and the impact on their health and well being? Do these guys really like being used for their money, or do they simply acquiesce and cry themselves to sleep every night? Having to compensate someone for physical intimacy just can’t reinforce a sense of self-worth. I can’t oppose what two *consenting* adults agree to do together, But the fact that prostitution is a gendered issue, in the main men as buyers and women… Read more »
What is this heresy?
No one gives two bits of anything (insert your favourite word here) about the buyers. The buyers are men and are scum and can all go straight to heck for all anyone cares.
Who dares ask such questions?
As for the whole free choice business, well, why the heck does anyone get married? I don’t get that one myself. But anyways…
The Wet One
For a time I worked as a Taxi driver in Queensland, one of the states in Australia where prostitution is legal. I soon got to know the locations of the brothels (among other things). By far the clients who rode in my taxi were young men, under 30 by my estimation, and simply wanted sex. They had money, they knew the women would trade sex for cash. They usually had plans for the night, Sex, movie, nightclub and sleep in the next day. It was simply a part of their night out. On the flip side, in the early mornings… Read more »
You know what’s cruel and demeaning?
Being told that paying for sex is wrong.
“First, what is the point of an anti-prostitution law or policy if nobody upholds them or enforces them? Is it simply to save face?” There isn’t one. Any law that’s partially enforced is wide open to abuse. “Second, do anti-prostitution laws actually protect prostitutes or put them in greater danger?” Greater danger. “Third, is paying for sex something so innate to humanity that even when faced with the possibility of dishonorable discharge and a year in jail, members of the military still engage in it?” I think they’d be less inclined to if the law were enforced with any kind… Read more »
“Second, do anti-prostitution laws actually protect prostitutes or put them in greater danger?”
There is an interesting episode of Penn & Teller’s Bullshit! in which they discuss prostitution. They interview a prostitute from a state where it’s illegal, and she actually talks about how she feels less safe because it’s illegal. For one thing, she has to worry about being arrested. For another, she feels like she has no support system if a customer does get violent. There’s no place for her to report him to, she can’t really file a police report without admitting to being a prostitute.
I view anti-prostitution policies in the military the same way I do “blue laws” in state government–leftovers from a more puritanical time. They’re seldom repealed, but also seldom enforced. Nobody would stick their neck out to propose actually removing such rules (“Think of the children!”), but if nobody plans to enforce them, I’m cool with that as an interim situation until society finishes growing up.
“Is prostitution cruel and demeaning?” It can be, but it usually costs extra for that.
It might be there because of child prostitution. The military might want the option of prosecuting, but don’t intend to exercise that option frequently.
Obviously prostitution CAN be cruel and demeaning. I’d go so far as to say that in practice it could be more likely to result in cruel and demeaning treatment than consensual sex without money exchanged. I don’t think it is inherently and in all ways cruel and demeaning to the prostitutes involved, as long as the sex workers have options and are able to consent. (This is often not the case, of course.) I had no idea that the military had such penalties for service personnel hiring prostitutes. I find it hard to believe that the Pentagon has discharged very… Read more »
Again I’m sure I’ll get ripped to shreds for this but in my opinion there is nothing intrinsically wrong with prostitution. Of course, like almost every other industry on the planet, there is the potential for slavery. But it is the slavery that is wrong, not the exchange of sex for money between two consenting adults.
And here Jimmy, is where we agree completely. I’m for making prostitution legal…just also regulating it to make sure it’s safe and the women (and men) have good working conditions.
Yep, I’m on board with humans being able to control their bodies and legal avenues for sex workers.
How effective will regulation be at protecting sex workers? That’s what I wonder. We do SUCH a great job regulating other industrues.
Even not-perfect regulation is better than nothing.
NZ and Aus have regulated sex work. From all reports Ive read, it works very well. Theres probably a youtube documentary or wiki page on it, for cliff noting
It depends on how you define “regulation.” We’re actually very good at regulating a lot of things. One example is gambling. Prior to legalized gambling in Nevada, organized crime controlled most of the casinos because no other organization would take a risk on an investment that might be illegal, organized criminals alone took such risks. However, once gambling was made legal, it turned out that crime syndicates are actually very bad at running legitimate businesses, and they were out-competed by the likes of Hilton and Hyatt, who are very good at running legitimate businesses. Meanwhile, the Nevada gaming commission ensured… Read more »
The rule against prostitution is only 7 years old. I think having the rule against prostitution was to placate the women’s lobby. Top military brass either thought it was senseless or counter-productive so they ignore it. I’d rather take the honest approach and either enforce or repeal it. As for prostitution being cruel or demeaning, it depends on your view of reality. I’ve noticed that in many disagreements I’ve had with feminists, it boils down to how you interpret context. Many MRAs would just look at the act. Two consenting adults, there is no problem. It doesn’t bother us that… Read more »
Some MRAs see it as sexual and financial subjugation. There is no value in pussy. Propitiating the idea only furthers male oppression.
I think the prostitution business can be cruel and demeaning to women especially when women are trafficked and abused. I do not have a problem if women are engaged in it voluntarily, but I’ve read so many articles about the tragedies of young women forced into prostitution, especially in the 3rd world, although it also happens in the U.S. That’s one argument in favor of legalization/regulation, but I fear it could also fuel demand that will simply increase the involvement of international organized crime and could actually increase trafficking and abuse of women (as well as male and female children).… Read more »
If Prohibition in the 1920s taught us anything, it’s that making a ‘vice’ illegal only creates a bigger criminal environment around that ‘vice.’