Jamie Utt wonders why is no one asking what’s wrong with White Men in the United States?
Originally appeared at Change From Within
With the newest mass shooting in Aurora, CO captivating the nation, it seems someone should ask the question. After all, if we had a pattern of Women walking into public places, heavily armed, and killing everyone possible, you can guarantee the headlines would read, “What’s wrong with American Women!?”
I mean, when Nidal Hassan opened fire at Ford Hood in 2009, the media and politicians were taking Muslim Americans (particularly Muslim members of the armed services) to task, questioning their loyalties, questioning if they were part of an “inherently violent” culture, questioning every aspect of their identity. The same sort of questions were asked when Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people at Virginia Tech, only directed at Asian American Immigrants.
When Black on Black crime is brought up, few question the realities of concentrated poverty in which the violence is occurring. Instead, people ask, “Why are Black people so violent?”
One of the powerful things about White Privilege and Male Privilege is that those of us who benefit from membership in these privileged groups do not have to worry that our individual actions will be attributed to everyone who looks like us. Well, that’s not true. When our actions make us (and others of our group) look good, it might be attributed to our race or gender.
But when the vast majority of mass murder shooters in the last 25 years fit one particular description, what questions do we ask? What happens when the shooters look like this:
Or this
Or this?
Are there questions we should be asking about masculinity? Should we be investigating White culture? What about White masculinity?
Because if everyone in those pictures were Black or Latino or Female or Muslim, you know their identity would be central to the conversation. And every person who looked like them would pay a price.
Editor’s questions: What do you think? In what ways do race and sex play a role in how we conceptualize these killings? Do you believe any insight will be gained as to why this happened since Holmes did not kill himself at the end of his rampage?
Lead Photo: Karl Gehring/AP
First I blame white women and women of color for choosing assholes to mate with. Women from modern industrialized nations have no guidelines (heritage) for choosing an appropriate mate – or not choosing one. Primitive cultures are way ahead of us – they mate with a long term plan in mind. Western divorce rates prove I’m right and the poor quality of the offspring that are being raised proves I’m right again…that’s where all these young white killers originate. We are a culture out-of-control and it’s going to continue to increase society’s stress to a breaking point – maybe it’s… Read more »
Every single white young killer was from a broken home? Blaming women for poor choices is pretty fucked up, considering how many other women raise perfectly healthy sons n daughters in such circumstances. You might be able to argue poverty and lack of a good male role model is harmful but unless a significant number of males born from such broken homes commit such a crime then how the hell is it even linked?
I would say what’s wrong with males of a certain age. Not only whites. Prisons are full of them, all over the world. It seems concentrated on a certain age group. Around 17-27 years of age. Do men need certain special education to become good MEN? Crime, murder, rape, mass shootings, terrorism, gangs, concentrated in a segment of the population. Parents unaware of what is happening or unable to say something about it. Relatives and parents not being able to recognize who is prone to violence? somebody like that will show signs that everybody should be able to spot and… Read more »
No one will ask “what’s wrong with white men?”. I’ve noticed when it comes to this type of subject with whites you get broad explanations. “It’s a mental issue, not all of us are killers, etc” plus, when white males are responsible for sick acts like this its always a “mental” issue. Any other race its deliberate and cold blooded. No on asks cause whites are the majority, and they have the loudest voice. Now, who do you know wants to wear the hat of “mass murderer” no one, but when its not someone who’s white its a race thing…always.… Read more »
It’s a great question (“What’s wrong with white males?”), but it cuts both ways; if 95% of the prison population was female, that would be a headline. If 95% of people sentenced to death around the world was female, that too would be a headline. White men are both highly central, and highly invisible. Men weren’t born as killers, so the next question needs to be “What are we doing to our men to make them behave like this?”. We’re reasonably good at asking that question when women step out of line; not very good at doing it when non-whites… Read more »
well in Africa when a crime is committed, nobody will say “what can be the matter with Black men?” But if a White guy shoots people up in Africa, you can bet there will be all sorts of interesting questions and pronouncements. What really struck me about the Aurora shootings is how everybody has sort of came together to decide a way forward. In all the discussions in various TV stations i have listened to, nobody is concentrating on the gory details of whose head was shot clean off etc. etc. – everybody just wants to discuss what could have… Read more »
One more thing. I really appreciate this piece. It was probably a good choice just to pose the questions “What do we think about these events seen from this perspective?” Rather than relying on that perspective to make an argument. Usually hypothetical pieces aren’t worth much to me, but judging from the response in the comment section, I think it was a smart move to just start a dialogue rather than share an opinion based on such apparently controversial theories as “white privilege” and “male privilege.”
My skin color never got me anything special, other than a whole lot of slurs and a few fistfights from Indian and Mexican students due to being one of only 5 or so white kids in the entire school. I busted my ass to get a job as an illustrator. I didn’t have college handed to me by rich parents; I signed 5 years of my life away to the Marine Corps to have even a chance at what most rich liberal honkies automatically ease into after highschool. You can “white privilege” yourself all you want, but don’t dare ascribe… Read more »
Fascinating that Reagan doesn’t want to be judged or generalized because of being White, but doesn’t mind being generalized as violent because of his maleness.
I’m not even saying I agree or disagree. I just find it interesting.
Historically, it’s almost always been men who went to war, defended the village, hunted down animals to feed the family. To say violence isn’t a part of masculinity is to ignore basic human history. If somebody looked at me and thought “That guy might be violent”, they’d be somewhat correct. It’s part of my profession, and I take part in training activities to make me better at carrying out and surviving violence.
White privilege is a much broader idea than that. White felons are hired more frequently than black non-felons, for instance. Whites in general are treated with more respect in day to day actions, depending on the area. Laws are frequently preferentially slanted in their favor (see the rates of powder cocaine use in whites vs blacks during the crack busting in the 80s) and law enforcement is always, in every area of the US and at every level, is racially discriminatory. It’s not just the one area, it’s a core part of our culture. It’s even in the language (look… Read more »
Or “What’s wrong with authors who use such a tragedy to push their political agenda?”
Or “what’s wrong with breaking the status quo and still getting to the root cause of the issue? And without a white male getting hostile because his inherent privileged status has been pointed out?…”
I really don’t know where most are going with this story – chances are strong that this young man is suffering from some form of mental disorder.
It is a complete myth that whites are disproportionally represented in these random mass murders. Trying to shoehorn this sad episode into a pet theory is remarkable nonsense. The number one use of guns is suicide. Men commit the most suicide. This would seem a logical spot to start the query, rather than some political narrative taught at higher learning institutes.
Evidence please. Other than DC sniper, do we have other examples of American MOC murdering groups of strangers in the US.
“Strangers” is the most important word in the above sentence.
Colin Ferguson murdered 6 people, and wounded 19 before being subdued by other passengers on a LIRR commuter train in 1993. The wife of one those slain is US Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy. Ferguson got multiple life sentences. I really am not sure exactly what MOC is supposed to mean, but neither David Chu at Tech, nor George Hassan at Ft. Hood were white either.
According to this person who is trying to make a similar point but forgets to adjust for population proportions in the United States: data for school shooting is from wiki
http://davinasquirrel.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/school-shootings/
For School shootings – it’s Asians that are the largest culprits (9% of culprits with 5% of population). Of course, given the sample size of these occurrences, the myth making can sprout horns in many different directions with equal ridiculousness.
Makes sense. I’m not entirely certain, but last time I checked whites were 55% of the population in the US, blacks 11%. That means all things being equal there would be 5 white serial killers to each black one and that this would be “normal”.
Joanna, By MOC do you mean exclusively black, or all non-white races? If you mean exclusively black, why would you throw that kind of qualifier in there? There are more than two races. The virginia tech shooting would qualify elissa’s statement. There was also the fort hood slayings. I don’t know if the shooter would qualify as white, but I’m thinking if he was stopped from going onto a plane it would qualify as racial profiling, so I’m assuming he could qualify as “not white” as well. There was also the case of the asian (I don’t remember what his… Read more »
By MOC I mean any man who is not white.
“Per his testimony a group of about 6 white hunters were taunting him telling him to get off of their private property and he opened fire on all of them.”
I remember that, I think it happened in Wisconsin or one of the bordering states
@Elissa,
When will we stop allowing these mass murderers, to cop insanity pleas? We need to stop coddling these criminals!
How many shootings will we have to experience in this country, before we realize that these are people with evil intent, who know perfectly well what they are doing.
Would you be so sympathetic if it had happened to people you know?
http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=2818 Here is a small example of what happens to a police chief when a woman commits a crime normally associated with a man. Notice the author of the report had to go back 2 years to the death of a family pet to find an ‘excuse’. BTW, as as side note (not sure if it is in the article or not), but the police stats for this city show 0 DV deaths for that year committed by a woman but 1 commited by a man….WHY, because the police didn’t classify this as a DV homicide because she killed herself… Read more »
thanks, jamie, for this post and your effort to respond to these exhaustingly racist and sexist comments. most of the comments above just add to the urgency of your question (not to mention making me worry about what bad men must be thinking if this is where good men’s heads are at).
jack, more than 200 people have shared this post on Facebook since it went up 12 hours ago. many people who agree with and support jamie are sharing this article, and many many more are reading it and thinking deeply on the subject.
it is often the dissenters who leave comments because rarely will a person comment who just wants to say, “Hey this is interesting” or “Good work.”
That is to say, don’t let the comments represent the majority of readers. However, it’s often in the comments that the really interesting dialogue happens.
@ Jack
If that’s your opinion of the majority of the comments above, you probably need to reread them, this time without preconceived notions.
Jack: Where do you see racist and sexist comments? I see calm reasoned rebuttals to Jamie’s premise, whereas you seem to want to dismiss commenters by smearing them.
So far, the most hyperbolic unreasoning comment I’ve seen was posted on 7/23 at 1:00 am.
“One of the powerful things about White Privilege and Male Privilege is that those of us who benefit from membership in these privileged groups do not have to worry that our individual actions will be attributed to everyone who looks like us. ” But is this really a privilege jamie? Perhaps if we did ask ourselves what might drive these person to commit such an act, we could address their cause and prevent these tragedies. These men did not benefit from fulfilling their crime nor do the rest of us profit if some systemic risk is permitted to permeate for… Read more »
I’m glad you asked that question, Jamie. And I’m disgusted with all the defensive responses.
Most serial killers are men and in this country, quite a few are white. As soon as we equate masculinity with male dominance and a willingness to be violent if a man doesn’t get his way, the stats will not change.
I mean to say, “As long as we equate masculinity with male dominance and a willingness to be violent if a man doesn’t get his way, the stats will not change.”
Marie, You’re conflating dysfunctionality with masculinity. These men are men, but they are clearly dysfunctional. As posted in another article here on tgmp, 3 men lost their lives using their bodies as shields to protect women. That’s 3 examples of protective masculinity (at the ultimate price) versus 1 example of dysfunctionality in this tragic event. According to the 2006 health and human services Child Maltreatment study mothers commit 70% of all parental abuse and 70% of all parental slayings. I could state (similar to you your view on men) that as long as we equate femininity with control over children… Read more »
The only real difference between whites and say blacks would be that whites probably have better access to resources, ability to fit in with the majority population, less likely to be stereotyped as dangerous. Being white doesn’t protect you from being angry, hurt, sad, mentally ill, etc. Not sure on the exact populationg breakdown but forgive me if I am wrong, aren’t whites at least 2-4x larger in numbers than blacks in the U.S? If so then if a percentage of humans commit crimes due to psychopathy/whatever then there would be a higher chance amongst the majority race (discounting social/class… Read more »
“After all, if we had a pattern of Women walking into public places, heavily armed, and killing everyone possible, you can guarantee the headlines would read, “What’s wrong with American Women!?””
Bullshit. If this had been a woman the media would have found the nearest male relative and/or boyfriend to lay the blame on (“was she abused by her father as a child? Maybe she was raped? What tragedy in her life could have compelled this poor woman to perform such a heinous act?”)
At the very least, nobody would dare ask “what’s wrong with women”?
Agree with you 8ball. The gender binary is remarkably consistent. If women normally suffer in our culture because they are presumed to lack agency, that liability can become an asset when agency itself is a liability. What’s frustrating is when bloggers argue in affect, that the nature of the gender binary changes depending on who benefits and who pays. To these folks, the binary is not a means of optimizing the survival and power of the culture (even as it limits the individual), instead it exist to privilege men and subjugate women everywhere and always just for the hell of… Read more »
You don’t think people are wondering what happened to Holmes?!
YES people would wonder what was wrong with women if they started murdering people. Jesus Christ, 8ball.
Here’s the big news: Regardless of this argument, it is men who do the vast majority of murdering. Even moreso random, mass murders. That doesn’t mean all men do it, but it does mean we need to figure out what is happening with men in these circumstances.
Yeah Joanna, but I think what 8ball was suggesting (and way I agreed with him) is that our media would be very receptive to denying our hypothetical female assailant direct culpability for the crime. When a man commits this crime we ask ourselves “why did this man choose to act this way”, when a woman commits this crime we ask “who caused this women to act this way”. That is the subtle difference.
A better example is when mothers or fathers kill their own children. Most editorials over mother slayings of children go into “what was wrong with her” theme (while sparing grisly details of what was actually done), whereas the story about fathers doing the same only go into graphic detail of the horribleness of the crimes and never post 1 to 4 paragraphs of suspicions over mental health.
Another thing in relation to this difference I see is that in addition to the horribleness of the crime being told differently if the killer is a man or woman there is also how the details of the killer’s life are told when dealing with a man or a woman doing the killing. Over the last year or so I’ve seen a few stories of women killing their children because the custody arrangement didn’t go their way. But you don’t hear that nearly as often as when men kill their children, at which time it’s a free for all to… Read more »
And yet 99.9999% of the group in question don’t commit mass murders, so how much of a role does their race really play? Is there a white gene that causes mass murder? Take a look at Africa, how many warlords and soldiers were black and committed unspeakable attrocities, should we ask what is wrong with black men over it? Or is it more to do with the culture there, the climate of war and other things going on. Are we teaching our kids that white men are to grab arms n start slaughtering innocents? Or is it more that white… Read more »
“You don’t think people are wondering what happened to Holmes?! YES people would wonder what was wrong with women if they started murdering people. Jesus Christ, 8ball. ” Assuming everything about our hypothetical alternative universe was the same besides that little fact? No, I really don’t think they would. The individual woman? Sure. But women as a whole? No. There would be no theories about “estrogen poisoning” or “toxic femininity” floating around. Violent women are treated as the exception, violent men are treated as the rule. I’m sure you’ve heard the old joke. “Why does a man hit a woman?… Read more »
“YES people would wonder what was wrong with women if they started murdering people. Jesus Christ, 8ball. ” Yes but the answer would be quite different, and in a predictable way. Rememebr Andrea yates, who methodically drowned her children in sequence? People asked that question, and the answer was…..something was wrong with her husband! And that is the pattern. The same happened with the women who ran her car into the Hudson and killed her two sons (and somehow managed to survive) The newspapers found a way to insinuate it was some failing of the father’s, even though she had… Read more »
Although they may have looked at the husband when trying to determine motive, your spin on what people thought of Andrea Yates is whacked. I was around for that, and my mother works in mental health, worked in neonates at the time, so we were VERY aware of that case… Find me a mainstream media article where they blamed her husband.
I’m certain someone will look at whether or not this guy was recently dumped. It was a big issue with the Virginia Tech shooter. Does that remove his agency?
h ttp://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/11/17/barbara-kay-when-a-mother-is-on-trial-the-father-is-the-accused/
Here is a good example of this from Canada on a high profile case here….The judge himself blamed the father.
Maybe it’s because many see white males as privileged and powerful, and that they high status over everyone else.
Then they go beserk every now and then and commit these mass molestations, (priests and coaches), brutality beatings, (police officers), and shootings.
What constitutes a White Man & makes him a candidate for essentializing? I’m a second generation American and a cultural Catholic. I was raised on stories of Masonic plots and distrust of JFK. So I’m 1/2 Irish on my Mother’s side- and she was very much aware of how the Irish became White.- not that long ago, evidently she had relatives who tried the US in the mid 19 th century and went back as conditions were so bad. Dogs & Irish not allowed. I’m 1/4 Castilian on my Father’s side- and Hispanics can’t believe anyone came for Europe with… Read more »
In Africa do they ask “what is wrong with black guys?”
Is the hombres buen proyecto.com asking what is wrong with us brown skinned dudes?
“What constitutes a White Man & makes him a candidate for essentializing?” My favorite writer on race is Shelby Steele (he’s black, just to get that out of the way). He argues that this sort of behavior is just a manifestation of white guilt which is ultimately unhelpful to anyone. Because a great number of (mostly “progressive”) white people would like to discharge their white guilt, but don’t believe that they can openly apologize, they instead channel their guilt into sociological arguments like “privilege” which allow them to make proxy apologies. You end up with statements like “I’m not apologizing… Read more »
what do I have to be guilty about is my answer on the subject……
I think 1/2, ok part,of the attention generating buzz here is the same as “white women in peril” journalism…..
http://standup2p.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/she-is-not-a-sexy-little-white-girl-so-there-is-no-need-to-panic-but-shelbi-is-missing/
http://azstarnet.com/article_69bcb6af-405c-5472-8a76-191a4a28fc50.html
At least white missing girls/women get attention. The media disadvantage against boys is staggering. All boys and black girls/women are thrown into the same category: their stories rarely make the national news. I think of missing adults/children the ones to roll off my tongue are Smart, Halloway, and Casey Anthony’s daughter. Can you name any boys who hit national news without cheating and looking on the internet? I can’t? In addition, there are a lot of female perpetrated crimes that never go national the way crimes perpetrated by men do. The only reason I’m clued in is because I read… Read more »
Both of the boys who were kidnapped and by and escaped from the guy in Missouri were *huge* cases, even on Oprah.
Maybe it’s a matter of media type. I typically read the newspaper, and don’t watch day time tv (despite being unemployed). Day time tv just looks like brain-rotting goop peddled to the lowest common denominator to me.
Maybe the boys made the news because they escaped. It still seems including those two that to me that the boy to girl ratio average is attrocious.
The fact of the matter is most of the individuals that perpetrate crimes of this nature are white men. It is totally fair to stereotype unhinged gunman that randomly rampage on society as white American men. I realize the OPs intent was to point out that no one ever stereotypes white males, while being quick to stereotype everyone else, but this is fighting fire with fire. “People shouldn’t stereotype, let me illustrate this by creating a stereotype.” I say we go all or nothing, clearly stereotypes are based on some representation of the truth, some statistically significant trait that becomes… Read more »
No one ever stereotypes white males? Seriously? What utter bullsit. That is flat out nonsense. We are one of the few classes it is acceptable to stereotype. Who is quick to stereotype everyone else? Give me some examples. Stereotyping those other than white males is generally regarded as heresy of the worst sort. That’s the truth. Like the article you’ve twisted reality around to the exact inverse of what is actaully is, nothing could be further from the truth. This very website is chock – full of stereotypes about white males. Your argument about stereotypes containing a grain of truth… Read more »
Unfair though it is to throw a blanket of blame on ethnicity, gender, class, etc., for antisocial acts, it’s just as unfair to imply what no one would seriously say – that there is nothing wrong with White men. A lot of us are encouraged, by someone or no one in particular, to think the world is supposed to be our oyster because of our pale skin and protruding junk. When it turns out not to be true, our socialization kicks in in other ways, and payback can be a bitch. But all this is natural, I suppose, and what’s… Read more »
Actually they do question the identity of these guys but they don’t see them as “White Men”, they see them as “Loner guys”. I hang out in web forums about social anxiety social phobia and every time there’s a massacre by a loner, guys in these forums say the same thing : “Another loner like us killed people and people will think we are dangerous because we are alone”. White Men are a not seen as loners, so you won’t see media blaming all White Men when a massacre like that happens. Furthermore, when there’s violence among Black people, only… Read more »
Jamie asks some valid questions in this piece, but Jamie, I’m curious, what exactly is a “diversity consultant” ?
That’s a tricky question, as my work looks different depending on what client I am working with. In short, though, I work with schools (primarily) and sometimes businesses to help them improve their diversity and inclusion practices in hopes of building communities where everyone has a place and where justice is realized.
You can learn more about my work at http://www.jamieutt.com
Went to your site. From there went to other sites. OK I get it, kind of. Humans are diverse, nature is diverse. I don’t exactly see what needs to be “consulted” about that.
This is off-topic. Let’s keep this discussion centered on the subject of the article in question.
Thanks!
I lived in the DC area during the reign of terror caused by the Beltway Sniper, John Muhhamed. Two of his victims were slain about a mile from where I was at the time. Everyone, and i mean everyone thought that it was some white, right wing gun nut. It got to the point where everyone thought he was in fact driving a WHITE van, and people would drop to the ground in fear when one of the thousands of them in the area appeared. (The murder vehicle was a blue sedan.) When he has captured with his young minion,… Read more »
I posted on another article similar information about the shootings AND stabbings in Chicago the weekend of the 17th. Not to minimize what happen in Aurora but there is a much bigger problem throughout the country that’s being ignored. What, because this is a white guy that all eyes are turned toward him? Why did he do it, what could have been done to prevent it …. Blah blah blah. What about the thousands of others … don’t they warrant the attention?
Tom, No, they don’t warrant the attention because they don’t fit the narrative of people who write articles like this. Either that, or they have some kind of higher standard for “white men”, and just accept the fact that certain minority groups are just going to do what they do. Proof? Look at Mr. Utt’s blog which is linked in his profile. It’s as though certain minorities, and women hardly even exist except as groups that are somehow abused and belittled by white men. With all the gang banging going on in our cities, the closest Mr. Utt gets to… Read more »
They actually do warrant great attention, yet they don’t get attention. They warrant the attention of us asking how we allow such a huge percentage of our population to live in concentrated poverty like on the West Side of Chicago. However, as there are countless scholars and activists of Color who are asking these questions and tackling these issues within their communities, it would only be appropriative for me to write about those realities. They are not my realities. The project of my blog is to write about and work to dismantle power, oppression, and privilege. As such, I write… Read more »
I think his story being elevated above the others had to do with the number of people he killed, 12. Not that the others don’t count, but if I can only write one story as a news source, it will be the biggest one. Women’s sports deserve coverage, but more people are interested in men’s sports so men’s sports get the coverage when resources are scare.
The reason this story is so huge is because of both the random, unpredictable nature of the crime and its perpetrator and also because of the number of victims. Why don’t people write as much about every single murder in Chicago? Because to some degree many of those murders (dare I say most without doing adequate research?) follow the pattern of crime as we’ve seen it for the last thirty or so years. Much of it is gang violence, or centered around other illegal activities. Certainly not ALL. These rampages break the mold. We’re talking here about a doctoral candidate… Read more »
Let me be clear about something. I never said that this kind of article shouldn’t be written and in fact, I believe it should be because it addresses some of the reality that we live with. My point is that although the attention at the moment is focused on this incident, when the dust settles, other problems as I mentioned may not surface and be looked at.
“And while there are noteworthy examples of POC committing random crimes of mass murder, these rampages seem to have a hallmark of white maleness, and within a certain age-range.” This has always sounded completely false to me because it is not considering the counter-proposition. The argument goes that “white men commit these crimes for no real reason.” However, it is equally possible that when a person of color commits a similar crime (as happened in Oakland just last year: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Oakland-restaurant-shootings-indiscriminate-2374072.php ) we MAKE PRETEND that they had a reason to do so. In one sense this is a clear defense… Read more »
“There are actually quite a lot of marches that happen to end violence among men of color, organized by people of color.” And the the gangsters are going to be watching from the alleys laughing at them. Joanna, do you remember the “Million Man March”? And its accomplishments were what, other than lining the organizers pockets? Years ago, a young journalist from out of town was killed in a robbery in the Georgetown section of DC. The DC police had to bring in BUSES to haul in the voluntary witnesses. A young local guy gets smoked in the Anacostia section… Read more »
The attention this story is receiving has nothing to do with race. Rather what gets our attention is the seeming arbitrary and explosive nature of the violence and our connection to the victims. Anyone of us could be in that theater. By contrast, the daily violence you reference is typically perpetrated by people known to the victim, or victimizes people taking known risks such as engaging in crime. That doesn’t diminish those tragedies, but it makes them less proximate to the public.
So true.
The question your article poses has been asked and answered multiple times in the fields of cultural anthropology and sociology, the two fields uniquely suited to deal with cultural trends rather than individual pathology. An excellent example of this is section 4 of “When the Center Is on Fire” by Diane Harriford and Becky Thompson. The book in general is an application of classical sociological concepts to very modern social trends. The section in specific is an application of all 4 of Durkheim’s suicide classifications (positive and negative organic and mechanical solidarity) to the Columbine shootings. The same concepts discussed… Read more »
Maybe that level of subtlety and conceptuality is the reason why, when someone really tries to understand a phenomenon like this on the level of society as a whole, no one listens and no one cares…
This is such a disappointing piece. Let’s start with the flat out incorrect parts: “[W]hen Nidal Hassan opened fire at Ford Hood in 2009, the media and politicians were taking Muslim Americans (particularly Muslim members of the armed services) to task, questioning their loyalties, questioning if they were part of an “inherently violent” culture, questioning every aspect of their identity. The same sort of questions were asked when Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people at Virginia Tech, only directed at Asian American Immigrants.” This is incorrect in two ways. First, it’s openly dishonest to make pretend that the Fort Hood shooting… Read more »
This is such a disappointing comment… I’ll try to tackle each of your misrepresentations in isolation, though it may be difficult to tease them apart. First, I should have been more precise with my language when it came to the Virginia Tech massacre. It wasn’t quite the same as the situation at Fort Hood, though it was no less bigoted. Some reacted by drawing distinctions between Korean Culture and American Culture, painting Koreans as disaffected and aloof. The other reaction tended to be, “But, how could this happen? Asians are the model minority! They don’t do this kind of thing!”… Read more »
Jamie, First, you admit you mischaracterized the reaction to the Virginia Tech shooting, and you failed to provide any evidence of a supposed bigoted reaction in the mainstream media. I will take the point as ceded. Second, you seem to be conflating my personal views with what is wrong with your own statements. I do not believe there is anything inherently violent about muslims. However, I also believe we need historical context in order to decide whether or not asking the question “Are muslims inherently violent?” is a symptom of privilege. It is not. Your premise was that a single… Read more »
Poor, poor Jamie… This argument reminds me of the controversy surrounding the Moniyahan Report. Dude says something, everyone grabs a random strand and runs with it to portray the report as basically the opposite of the original intent. In that case it was trying to demonstrate how the prison system negatively affected black families and communities, but it was politically interpreted to show that blacks make worse parents than whites do (with the implication being that we need more prisons to control “those people”). One effect of white privilege is that blacks as a group are marginalized. I’m not sure… Read more »
edit: I just checked my old textbooks and I was wrong about something. Indexicality does not refer to what I thought I did. The term I was looking for is actually categorization.
Andrew , you said “When you apply this methodology to criminal statistics, you’ll find that each and every variable at each and every level of the criminal justice system shows a statistically significant level of white privilege and male privilege ” Where is the proof of MALE PRIVILEGE in these stats, you rightfully point out white priv, but where is the male priv. OR was that just a tag addon kinda like “Women and children” with women being the tag addon or sympathy or effect. Seriously, men are arrested , convicted and sentenced at higher rates than women, where is… Read more »
“When you apply this methodology to criminal statistics, you’ll find that each and every variable at each and every level of the criminal justice system shows a statistically significant level of white privilege and male privilege (less than 5% chance that it’s due to error). Black neighborhoods are disproportionately patrolled, blacks are disproportionately stopped and frisked” So you’re saying that women are stopped and frisked more often than men. How again does the criminal justice system have a significant amount of male privilege? It’s probably in the harsher sentences given to men. That’s one of the problems when you try… Read more »
You’re right, I was unclear. There is a strong racial bias. The bias against women isn’t at each and every level, but for most crimes women are actually given harsher sentences than men. I understand that women are also more likely to be convicted of certain crimes than men, but that’s just my recollection and I don’t have any studies on hand to support it. In other words, it’s not AS big a deal with women, but it’s present. It’s an absolute nightmare along the black/white divide, though, and THAT is present for both black women and men. Would you… Read more »
Andrew writes: “The bias against women isn’t at each and every level, but for most crimes women are actually given harsher sentences than men.” Andrew, seriously: where do you get your information? I would definitely like a link or two. Here are some of the studies I’ve found which proves systemic disadvantage against men in sentencing: Citation1: ht tp://www.courts.wa.gov/committee/pdf/2008LFO_report.pd f A Univ of Wash study of crimes in which only financial penatlies were assessed (fines restitution) men were treated much harsher Citation2: ht tp://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pd f This study for the USA shows the discrimination suffered by men in sentencing is about… Read more »
@ Andrew “but for most crimes women are actually given harsher sentences than men. I understand that women are also more likely to be convicted of certain crimes than men, but that’s just my recollection and I don’t have any studies on hand to support it. In other words, it’s not AS big a deal with women, but it’s present. It’s an absolute nightmare along the black/white divide, though, and THAT is present for both black women and men. Would you like me to dig up the studies to support what I’m saying? I still have about 90% of my… Read more »
Andrew writes: “When you apply this methodology to criminal statistics, you’ll find that each and every variable at each and every level of the criminal justice system shows a statistically significant level of white privilege and male privilege (less than 5% chance that it’s due to error).” Do you have a link to this study? All of the studies I have seen show that there is a systemic male disadvantage in sentencing that is nearly as harsh as the disadvantage that blacks receive in sentencing. Also, don’t you think that if it is readily apparent where the most crime is… Read more »
“In summation, suggesting at all that blacks commit crimes more frequently because of something inherent to their culture instead of the interaction of different cultures that has placed them as a minority subgroup is inherently the product of white privilege. It’s racist”
Racism,i believe,is the belief/idea that inherent behaviours are a result of ones race,not culture…unless of course your one who believes culture is the result of race,which may or may not be true.Very hard to prove 100% and of course people can be conditioned to change
Given the size of this country and how easy it is to act out in this way – this is an incredibly rare event. I mean, 99.9999999% of white males never become mass murderers.
This whole event is being over-analyzed, imho.
Rum, with all due respect, I think you’re missing my point. I am not actually arguing that something is wrong with White Men. Instead, I am problematizing why no one ever asks what is wrong with White Men when they commit atrocities like the one in Aurora, yet we are quick to ascribe actions of other people (women, people of Color, Muslims, etc) to their entire identity group when one person does something terrible.
A black man beaten in a white neighborhood would raise the question of whether everyone in that neighborhood was a racist. A white man beaten in a black neighborhood would most likely be seen as a random victim or someone who was out to buy drugs and so got what he deserved. People often wonder why female pedophiles did what they did. She must be emotionally unstable or she had a relationship with the boy. Male pedophiles are simply assumed to be predators. It may have to do with the victims being “random”. Had he targeted all women, I suspect… Read more »
I think it may have to do with the other side of that coin. While what you say it true there is also the matter that when a white guy is the victims of such actions not only do people actively deny any racial connotations but daring to bring up racial connotations of the event could get one accused of racism itself. And in the event that there might be actual racial motivations behind it folks will quick shift in to damage control in the form of trying to make it out to be an isolated incident. Oddly I wonder… Read more »
“Instead, I am problematizing why no one ever asks what is wrong with White Men when they commit atrocities…” Rememeebr John Muhammad, the DC shooter? Do you know why it took so long to identitfy him? It’ s because they were looking for a white man, because his MO was standard for a middle-aged white man. No one imagined it was a black man, so no one was looking for one. You are looking at media treatment of a crime, as if that’s all that’s going on, but truly, there is a reality beyond the mirage the media spins, and… Read more »