You’ve probably seen it by now, Wolf Blitzer warning Donald Trump that he’s starting to sound a little ridiculous with these fake birth certificate conspiracies regarding President Obama, during his CNN news show?
It’s curious, this birther battle. Seems there are enough legitimate critiques to make about our President from the Right, should they choose to do so: “Obamacare”, issues surrounding reproductive rights, fiscal policy, the economy, the current state of Afghanistan…
Isn’t this birther thing just a little odd, or am I missing something?
What do you think of Trump’s ferocious attachment to the idea that the may have Obamas faked a U.S. birth while living in Hawaii?
What’s Trump’s end game?
Holy crap!
I’ve now actually listened to this idiocy. Is Trump running to be the Grand Dragon of the KKK? Like WTF is that argument?
That’s all he’s got? Really?
Sheesh…
And this man wanted to be President of the U.S.A. and people actually thought he had a hope? Then again, given the field this year, I suppose it’s not that much of a stretch, but seriously… This is some weak fucking sauce. WEAK!!!!!
The Wet One
I think failure to recognize a racial element to the Birther conspiracy is problematic, because much of the success in Trump’s subversion of that meme (and he really doesn’t believe it — though it’d be easier if he did — he’s just out to make more $$$$) is that he taps into White racial angst and fears of anyone who can be considered “Other” in America, especially Black Americans. You can tell by looking at this in context, instead of comparing it other conspiracy theories. (Unlike the 9/11 conspiracy theory, Obama has verifiable proof ad naseum.) The signs by reactionary… Read more »
“Unlike the 9/11 conspiracy theory, Obama has verifiable proof ad naseum.”
Why am I not surprised that you give credence to 9/11 conspiracy theories?
I’m surprised you think I do, because I never said I did. I just said Obama has more solid proof against the Birther conspiracy theories than Dubya did for 9/11.
Thanks for failing! =)
MOD EDIT: Please avoid personal attacks on other commentators.
So, your argument is that the supporters of the 9/11 conspiracies are somehow “less delusional” than supporters of the birther conspiracies
Which is the same as saying the 9/11 conspiracy is more plausible than the birther conspiracy. Ergo, you grant the one credence over the other.
There’s definitely a racial element, and the fact that Obama is black plays into the whole thing. But I do think that if a white democratic candidate had similar questions about their birth there would be a similar reaction. The GOP smear team are willing to use whatever they can to discredit the opposite side, I don’t think they’d pass up an opportunity to do so because the candidate was the same skin colour as them. If it were purely a racial issue, why was Herman Cain defended by his own side after the sexual harassment cases came to light.
Before Americans overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893, Hawai’i was an independent country. Perhaps Trump is secretly in league with the aboriginal Hawaiian sovereignty movement and is wanting to remind us that Hawaii really ought to be considered a foreign country. Perhaps his ultimate goal is to become king of Hawai’i. I’m thinking “King Donaloa the First”?
It’s all meant to be an indirect slam against any ambitious political figures not born in the U.S. who may be Trump competition, like Arnold Schwarzenegger. (I mean, like, actual foreign-born people.) In any event, this seems not precisely race-baiting, more like immigrant-baiting. (Though of course there’s overlap between the two.) Bringing up the birth certificate brings up Obama’s childhood and suggests he’s some sort of crypto-Muslim. The “birthers” want to label Obama as a “dangerous Muslim” or someone under un-American influence without doing so directly. Ironic that politicians are reminding us that official documents can be faked. Then again,… Read more »
I think what we’re seeing is modern day racism. Have you ever heard of any past WHITE presidents having to prove their place of birth? Having to have an authority (namely Hawaii vital statistics or some such) produce the birth certificate? Having it still questioned years after producing the birth certificate (including by the Arizona election authority: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/23/obamas-birth-certificate-gets-arizonas-stamp-of-approval/ Maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe, just maybe, Trump is an out and out bigottedracist red neck (with the hair to go with it). Maybe we should start calling that which walks like a duck, quacks like a duck… Read more »
My does this have to be racial? Several Hollywood celebrities (along with at least 2 sitting members of congress) bought into the 9/11 conspiracy theories during the 2004 and 2006 elections. This wasn’t all that surprising: left-leaning individuals wanted to believe in a conspiracy that told them right-leaning individuals were lying to the Amercian public. Why does this have to be any different? It’s just a right-leaning individual stating his belief in a conspiracy theory that tells him a left-leaning president is lying to the American people. I strongly suspect this is a little bit of the “If you don’t… Read more »
Okay, spelling was autocorrected ther:
Should be “Why” in the first sentence and “then” in the second-to-last.
When every single president is grilled on their birth certificate (rather like pre-presidential drug use), I’ll accept that it wasn’t racist. I.e. history will have to prove me wrong. Until then, I’ll accept Hawaii’s vital statistics records THE FIRST TIME AROUND and call it a day. Doing it twice to a black man screams racism and I’ll call the way I see it. Otherwise, at least present SOME FUCKING EVIDENCE that Hawaii’s vital statistics department is in on the “conspiracy.” Utterly, transparently, totally, racist. In 50 years, we’ll know if I’m wrong. Until then, I’ll call a duck a duck.… Read more »
Again, all you are demonstrating is belief in a conspiracy theory.
It’s clear that Mr. Trump is irrational on this subject, definitely. But irrationality is not really proof of racism.
It still seems like you’re reaching for the result you want, and the insistence that “history will have to prove me wrong” suggests that you have closed your mind to alternative explanations, meaning there is less reason to take you seriously.
Mr. L,
Fair enough. Remember though, this is America we’re talking about. When people come up with irrational beliefs about black men, it’s pretty reasonable to conclude that it’s because of racism. Especially when those irrational beliefs have been disproven in the particular instance and yet those irrational beliefs persist. Just an FYI, racism has a long and fruitful history in American, both blatant and subtle. You may wish to consider that in your ruminations on Trumps absurd activities.
The Wet One.
It’s a little different: Obama is the first president in recent history who hasn’t come from a long line of american citizens. If Clinton’s father had been from Kenya (or Spain or insert other country here) they probably would have tried the same thing.
Remember all that stuff about “John Kerry looks french?” Anything that even hints at “unamerican” is a huge opportunity for them. A Kenyan parantage was probably too juicy to resist.
I’m sure there’s a bit of racism in there, but it’s primarily general xenophobia.
I’d have to agree. I mean look at the pressure Michelle Bachman was just under because she had dual citizenship with Sweeden. It doesn’t get much blonder and blue-eyed than Sweeden, and yet she’s actually denounced her dual citizenship. As an Amercan ex-pat I gotta say the US is dang xenophobic. They make the Brita look positively open-armed and welcoming. Though yeah, I bet racism did also play a part in Obama’s case.
So because his mother is from Kansas, and his birth certificate, produced by the relevant State authorities, we can still call it into question? Where was the inquiry into McCain’s birthplace? As I understand it, his parentage is somewhat suspicious as well. Though I concede I could be wrong on that point. As for Ms. Bachman’s citizenship in Switzerland, she only got exposed as a hypocrit after the fact. There was no “pressure” so to speak for her to renounce her Swiss citizenship ( see here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/11/us-usa-politics-bachmann-idUSBRE84A04720120511). Also, to make the situation equivalent, let’s wait a few years and then… Read more »
Ah I apologize about getting the Swiss citizenship mixed up with Sweden. Also, sorry for spelling it wrong there… I was on my phone.
Anyway, Peter wasn’t saying that all of this birtherer nonsense was excusable or justified, just that it was probably motivated by xenophobia rather than outright racism. Neither is acceptable.
Yeah, sorry if I didn’t make that clear enough. It’s still a ridiculous stunt to pull and in no way acceptable (or based on any kind of fact). I know the US Constitution specifies that only natural born citizens can run for president, but still, if that’s your best argument then you’re fighting a loosing battle.
If McCain had been a democrat and there were rumours that he was actually born in the Phillipines or something then I’m sure it would have been brought up.
I hadn’t heard about him having questionmarks over his birth, do you have any links.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html
Ah, panama 🙂 That whole mess. I think there’s two reasons it wasn’t brought up as much:
1. Democrats seem to go for those kind of conspiracy theories a little less.
2. If someone were to argue that children born on US Military institutions weren’t natural born citizens it could well be interpreted as an attack on military families and completely backfire.
I think you bring up the only real issue in this “issue”. What is the vetting process for these guys? How about something valid and transparent so we all know what is going on. Of course this is the last thing either party wants more of.
I’m pretty sure there is a valid and transparent vetting process. As The Wet One has raised several times, his birth certificate is literally available online. The birther nonsense is clearly just a conspiracy theory. As I’ve pointed out above, many Presidents are subject to conspiracy theories. George W. Bush was the 9/11 mastermind according to some conspiracy theories, Bill Clinton murdered Vince Foster according to another conspiracy theory, George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, etc. et al all had their own conspiracy theories. I would simply argue that being President means you will be subject to a… Read more »
I think what we’re seeing *is* Trump’s endgame. He’s a businessman who is his own brand and relies on media coverage to keep that brand relevant. Every time Trump goes on CNN and looks silly with birthed conspiracies, he keeps his name and brand alive and profitable. Stirring up doubt about a President who’s less friendly to business than his opponent (although questions can certainly be raised about where Obama actually sits in the class struggle) just adds icing to Trump’s cake.
I see this as absolutely correct. You can almost quantify how much more money this makes him. On the other side of it is the Obama campaign keeping this alive as well. I mean putting “proof” on the internet. There is no such thing. They see it as benefiting them to keep this going. I don’t know if I agree with that premise, but the execution was outstanding. I just saw a TV ad by the campaign so it’s one of the first out. In my opinion again, absolutely brilliant. In fact it had a touch of Reagan in it,… Read more »