I was in bed watching The Good Wife Sunday night, a show my wife and I both enjoy, when the gratuitous lesbian scene between the fashionista Indian investigator—Kalinda played by Archie Panjabi who apparently is a stay-at-home mother and wife in real life when not taping—and equally attractive African-American prosecutor, Dana. It’s the first time we hit the fast-forward button (we had TiVo’d the episode, thankfully). The whole thing just felt so contrived and meant for sleazy male attention.
To figure out what actually happened in order to write this blog I had to consult the Wall Street Journal of all places for the recap, under the headline: Kalinda gets Dana drunk, Dana gets lesbian lessons.
“What’s the point, anyway?” Dana wants to know as they sit at a bar. “Without a penis involved? It’s like baseball without a bat.” Kalinda offers some insight, including, “When you get a woman excited, it’s not like a man. It’s not aggressive. It’s slow, suspenseful.”
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeDana tells Kalinda that Cary wants to hurt her “through me,” but then seems to switch subjects, revealing that Wendy has been hired as special prosecutor and “we’re going after Will Gardner….bribery…banging judges…did I say banging? I meant bribing…I need to get a cab.”
The next shot is of Dana’s clothes on the floor—but she’s in bed with Cary, not Kalinda, though sharing Kalinda’s single sex tips. “She won’t touch you,” he says, but clearly he’s enjoying the vicarious girl on girl action.
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Of course, The Good Wife is just taking the bisexual hotie one step further than House (Thirteen is gorgeous, terminally ill, and has a thing for gals) and Grey’s Anatomy (two lead characters are lesbians just trying to work it out).
I was reminded of visiting a well-meaning neighbor who had recently recent rented Milk, Sean Penn’s portrayal gay San Fransico mayor Harvey Milk. “We just had to turn it off,” he said. “The guys kissing each other was really too much for me to take.”
I know for a fact that this same guy would have no problem watching women kiss each other. In fact, I am sure he has. And he is certainly not alone in our culture.
Why the male obsession with lesbians?
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In graduate school I met a lesbian couple, named Sam and Sara that seemed well suited for each other. And then at a party one day I saw a much older woman named Beth hanging around them and couldn’t quite figure out how she fit in. It turned out that Sam and Beth had been a couple for years but Beth had gotten gravely ill with breast cancer. Beth had been told she would likely not live more than a year. She did not want Sam to be alone so she went looking for someone to take her place. Enter Sara. Sam and Sara became a couple with Beth’s blessing while she supposedly lay dying in the hospital. Only one problem: Beth made a miraculous recovery.
So by the time I met them the three women—Sam, Sara, and Beth—had decided to all live together sleeping in one big happy bed. And honestly from what I could tell, granted an outsider looking in, it seemed like an arrangement with as much as potential as any heterosexual marriage.
The thing that fascinated me most was that my reaction, and those of my friends, was not to be weirded out but to feel a kind of warmth and empathy for the female three-way. If there had been a man involved, it would not have been perceived so nonchalantly. Visions of abuse, pornography, and Mormon cult leaders would have jumped to the fore.
Again, why?
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My only guess at the cult of lesbianism among straight men is out of fear of female sexuality to begin with. We as men are taught to be horny. To want to have sex whenever possible. Our lizard brains are bombarded with images of tits and ass as object rather than human soul. Yet somewhere in the recesses of our brains we wonder whether behind the boobs there is a person with sexual desire, with flesh and bones, with a heart.
Lesbianism is a way to witness what female sexuality looks like without risking anything. To ask your own wife or girlfriend what she likes or needs is the obvious way to explore female sexuality. But that isn’t what we have been taught to do. We’ve been taught to watch and objectify.
All of which makes me more than a little sad. I really like The Good Wife. Why did that have to stoop to play the lesbian erotica card on Sunday night prime time? Really guys?
What some other commenters have said: “lesbians” you see in porn and on TV are there for societally determined het-norm male benefit. I liked the term “performance lesbians”. It’s pandering to what men are *supposed* to like – MORE female action that they can join in on. Voyeurism of women, objectified for male benefit. See, men are allowed to like watching a woman having sex (hence porn is almost all female-focused, with men-as-penis only, practically) – and, you know, maybe they don’t like seeing penises that aren’t theirs anyway so… have another chick do it! Yeah! Furthermore, there’s deeper idea… Read more »
Yes to all of that. Woman on woman sex can be incredibly aggressive. Man on man can be loving and gentle.
Humans, go figure.
I think “girl-on-girl action” is the colloquial name for “performance lesbians.” In mainstream media and straight porn they tend to be men’s fantasy women who have sex with other fantasy women. These shows are already showing an unrepresentative sampling of human sexuality, so certainly not a cross-section of the lesbian community. They’re generally women that straight men think are hot being turned on by each other. For many male viewers, it’s basically watching two attractive women being sexual instead of just one. No matter what situation there is at least one woman giving pleasure and at least one receiving pleasure,… Read more »
I meant “two out lesbians” not “too out lesbians”
Archie Panjabi does not have a child.
For the record… Harvey Milk was not the Mayor of San Francisco. He was called the Mayor of Castro Street.
The Castro is the gay neighborhood that Harvey had a camera shop and lived in. It was just his nickname.
Yes. George Moscone was the mayor of San Francisco, and he was also an early champion of gay rights, although he was a straight Irish Catholic. Harvey Milk was on the board of supervisors.
I agree with much of the original post. i think there’s more than one double standard at work here. One comment that caught my eye was Lance’s quotation of his lesbian friend, who complained about the Hollywood version of lesbians:
“The people who make those shows are pandering, not teaching. Ignore it.”
Not “teaching?” Are they supposed to be “teaching?”. If so, who determines that this is the case, and who determines what should be “taught?”
(please excuse the scare quotes. I’m just fascinated by all this.
I don’t know if there is any lesbianism cult but that many heterosexual men have no problem watching women make out is not complicated at all. Heterosexual men like women and like sex involving women. That’s pretty much all there is to it.
Likewise, as a heterosexual, if a scene with two men kissing comes on, I cut it off or fast forward. I like women, not men.
“There are some studies showing there is more fluidity to a woman’s sex drive than a mans. ”
I highly doubt that. Think of ancient homosocial cultures like Greece. I travel in contemporary homosocial cultures and I can tell you that there is a lot of physical affection displayed between males and I’m most certain many of them feel some kind of way about.
I’d love to hear more K. The studies done are few and far between. Only recently has there been any support at all for the real existence of male bisexuality.
1) watching people have sex is fun 2) straight dudes like femme chicks, so watching femme chicks do it is hot for them 3) I doubt straight dudes would appreciate watching butch dykes do it. Then again who knows…. I personally love watching two men etc etc wink wink youknowwhatImean, as do many other of my female friends. Because of point 1). It’s cool to watch aggressive male sexuality in action with each other. But I have a question-“Lesbianism is a way to witness what female sexuality looks like without risking anything.” Does this mean that watching lesbianism is a… Read more »
I guess my point Julie was that three women living together in a committed cohabitation relationship is something most folks might find odd but acceptable whereas a man living with more than one woman is polygamy and criminal. Why is that? Not judging just asking.
I think we assume that in any relationship involving a man, there has to be oppression of some sort. Two girls and one guy? We assume he chose the second and the first had not choice but to agree. Lisa Ling did an amazing docu for OWN about this Mormon sect in Utah that is very divergent from the Warren Jeffs set. In this community, the females choose their husbands, and amazingly the husbands have no say, if their religious leaders approve the match. The women must also be older than nineteen. The most fascinating thing about this docu was… Read more »
“In this community, the females choose their husbands, and amazingly the husbands have no say, if their religious leaders approve the match.” Why, exactly, is this amazing? Am I supposed to cheer for non-consensual marriage? Is it also followed by a non-consensual honeymoon in which the man is raped? Maybe faces excommunication if he doesn’t comply with his wife’s sexual wishes? Ugh. That sounds worse then the typical Mormon polygamous community, if only because people feel justified in celebrating the fact that one of the parties can’t consent. “One wife had even left her plural marriage for a while and… Read more »
I’m not saying non-consensual marriage is EVER correct however it is **amazing** in that I am **amazed** that it exists. Pretty unbelievable given our understandings of plural marriage within the Mormon religion. Also, if he consents to marrying the woman, isn’t that consent? I mean, he believes that God makes a pairing and that the religious leaders (are they Elders? why don’t know I know this?) confirm it. By being a part of that religion, consensually (he isn’t chained, there are no physical or civil implications to him leaving the sect as far as I know), he is consenting to… Read more »
I’m regendering part of your comment. “I mean, she believes that God makes a pairing and that the religious leaders (are they Elders? why don’t know I know this?) confirm it. By being a part of that religion, consensually (she isn’t chained, there are no physical or civil implications to her leaving the sect as far as I know), she is consenting to their form of deciding whom one marries. Isn’t that consensual? She’s an adult, she’s making a choice to be there. I would never say she couldn’t be a part of that religion and I would never judge… Read more »
First, yes, I would feel the same way about adult women choosing to be in a religious situation wherein the church chooses their spouse. Why would I feel differently? It would only change if there were evidence that they were, in fact, brainwashed. Either sex. I also am for the right of Muslim women to wear hijab or even burqa if it is truly the woman’s choice (I realize that very often it is not, but in many cases it actually is). I’m sick of men acting like they need to go save women from their own religious choices. I… Read more »
The other problem I have is that Polygamous Mormon sects have a habit of dumping unwanted boys by abandoning them on highways.
Did Lisa Ling mention if this sect dumps any boys that don’t conform to it’s strict rules regarding their behavior?
Well, one thing that comes to mind, Tom is that if the three people are out and gay, they may already be used to acting non-normatively. The gay community (as much as it is fair to generalize, or unfair actually), has traveled the edge territory of kink, non monogamy, etc. So perhaps for those three, it wasn’t as much of a leap. That being said, there are a lot of straight and bi identified folks in the poly communities of most major cities. I’ve seen MMF triads, FFM triads, Vees, quads, and other formations. It also depends on the audience.… Read more »
Julie, I recall reading the same article — I think it was in the New York Times. Apparently women will have a sexual response (increased lubrication and blood flow to the genitals) when they see images of any kind of sex, even if they objectively report no feelings of arousal. I remember the article said that women have a sexual response when shown videos of chimps mating, but men don’t! One theory is that lubrication is an unconscious response to provide physical protection for the genitals when sex is imminent.
I think behind every male fantasy about lesbians is the male ego driven belief that deep down inside, somewhere they’d rather not discuss…a lesbian needs a man every once in a while.
Huh. Do you mean that you think lesbians don’t want to discuss it? Like it’s this secret need for d*ck? That’s a theory that I think most lesbians would laugh at.
I mean when I watch man on man it’s not because I think those gay men have a secret need for vag or anything. Or that I believe that straight dudes all want it up the a$$. I watch man on man because it is amazing to see men be with men when they like being with men. I’m a viewer not a participant etc.
Food for thought.
“I watch man on man because it is amazing to see men be with men when they like being with men.” You may like the more sophisticated man-on-man media designed for women, but there is a lot of bilge out there with an extremely questionable grasp on sexual mechanics, as well as hugely problematic notions of consent and gender. Look up ‘Rape is Love’ on tvtropes for how prevalent this scenario is in gay-erotica aimed at women coming out of Japan: ‘man rapes teenage boy; boy falls in love with man. Vary levels of sadism of man and masochism of… Read more »
This is going to sound weird but I swear Im trying to be thoughtful. …. The lesbians I know think tv lesbians are crap. While the L Word (good show til the last season) and Queer as Folk were popular with the gay and lesbian couple I know and have known, for the most part, “Hollywood Gay” is a joke to them. ]’ I texted my friend about this column and her immediate answer was “the people who make those shows are pandering not teaching….ignore it” One of the best movies Ive seen in years in The Kids Are Alright… Read more »
With you on The Kids Are Alright. Also that TV lesbians aren’t really like any lesbians I know. But then neither the lesbians in porn either. I guess the question is why we as men seem to want/need this fictionalized version?
The guys I know like the lesbian situations that are set up on TV, in frat houses by attention-seeking straight (or possibly bi-curious) college girls, and in porn because those situations are all FOR THE GUYS and not purely for the joy of the women who are actually, legitimately interested in one another. Guys are smart, they can tell the difference. Are there guys out there dying to see Ellen and Portia hook up? Rosie O’Donnell and her wife? Portia’s hot as hell, but I doubt there are a lot of Ellen and Portia fantasies just because it’s so obvious… Read more »
Cause you all think it’s hot? I’m not sure it’s really more complicated than that. Because it’s performative sexuality by women who fit a cultural standard of hetero beauty. Like Joanna says, are there straight male fantasies about butch dyke sex? Lesbian sex is different than tv sex, just like good intense hetero sex is different than tv sex.
Real sex is always messier, more complicated and time consuming than tv/film sex.
“Why the male obsession with lesbians?”
I think some men see it as a two for one deal. If they’re hot, twice the deal, twice the fun to watch.
I try to be open to these things, feeling that I should be ashamed of being embarrassed by seeing two men becoming intimate. I’ve come a long way and feel that I can identify them as individuals, not just as male individuals, expressing passion and emotion. This is great,however, its somewhat taken away from that thrill I used to get from watching two women kissing, (which happens more often in real life when I’m out with friends and girls just always seem to like to show off this way)! But, what I’ve come to notice is that this is not… Read more »
“I was reminded of visiting a well-meaning neighbor who had recently recent rented Milk, Sean Penn’s portrayal gay San Fransico mayor Harvey Milk. “We just had to turn it off,” he said. ”The guys kissing each other was really too much for me to take.”” There’s something I’ve always found a trifle confusing. I assume the same men who swoon at the sight of two men kissing can manage to watch a National Geographic documentary where animals get it on’ without reaching for the smelling salts. Why are they investing so much emotional energy into something that should be about… Read more »
I’ve seen lions hump quite close up in the wild and let me tell you it is anything but boring…