One for the Masculinity Is An Immutable Thing Placed In Us By The Almighty God And/Or Evolution And Definitely Has Nothing To Do With Social Construction or Anything people: Cheerleading was originally considered a manly sport. 1911:
…the reputation of having been a valiant “cheer-leader” is one of the most valuable things a boy can take away from college. As a title to promotion in professional or public life, it ranks hardly second to that of having been a quarterback.
2011:
Dude, you cheerlead? Fag.
It’s kind of fascinating how, as cheerleading went from being a male thing to a female thing, the traits associated with cheerleading changed. Originally, cheerleaders were brave, likely to become successful, in possession of loud and raucous voices, athletic, and leaders. As cheerleaders became more female, the ideal cheerleader came to be described as cute, smiling, and dressed in a revealing outfit. That is, the ideal cheerleader stopped being considered a success object and started to be a sex object. The narratives around what a man is supposed to be, it seems, are a bit more durable than the behaviors that make him such.
I think one of the most important lessons that one can learn about gender roles is that they are not a constant. True, hormones and chromosomes may affect the brain in addition to the body; however, the behaviors that we view as gendered– from waving pompoms to fighting in wars– are to a very large degree socially constructed. And if they’re socially constructed… we can change them.
KU cheerleaders recently saved a man’s life. They lifted a car off of him. It made all the local news here in Kansas. Can’t think of anything more stereotypically “manly” than that. The newscasters seemed a bit surprised that it was cheerleaders who saved the man, rather than the “real” athletes. Idiots. An athlete is an athlete, regardless of the sport. One day we’ll wake up to that.
http://6lawrence.com/news/education-ku/ku-cheerleaders-save-man-s-life/
Not sure where you’re going with all that…I have confined my discussion to ski jumping and the Olympics. It’s pretty clear to me that “it’s too hard on the ladies from a medical view” is pretty sexist as ski jumping is fucking dangerous for ANYONE. The IOC official didn’t clarify exactly what his “health concerns” were (bone density? ability to process oxygen at high altitude? impact upon crashing?) but how would it be any more “unhealthy” for women than it already is for men? Your first argument was “there’s only 15 female jumpers” and I pointed out that were a… Read more »
You know it’s funny because the IOC is actively trying to downsize the number of sports. They have a messed up interpretation of what counts as athleticism and what doesn’t. Do you guys have even a remote idea of how expensive the drug testing facility they built in London for this year’s Olympics was? There’s another sport that’s trying to get into the Olympics – women’s Bridge. So in order to line up with the Olympic way of doing business, they disqualified the winner of a women’s bridge championship because she was on back pain medication. Does this make sense?… Read more »
kaija24, compare your video to this (hopefully embedding will work) [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4vBYDfNHg&w=560&h=315%5D
@dancinbojangles, agreed!!
Hm, that would seem to suggest that, rather than having rampant institutional sexism specifically against women, the Olympics is just a weird and stupid organization. That’s not exactly news to me, don’t know about you guys.
@dancinbojangles, not in the Olympics. DUH!
breathtaking artistry meets amazing athleticism! And there you go. Having muscles that are nice to look at is not “athleticism” in the competitive sense – it’s a beauty pageant. I’m pretty sure that 99% of Olympic athletes could take their clothes off and be nice to look at, too. Spinning around in a nicely choreographed motion is indeed artsy, which is why it’s normally found on Broadway and not in the Olympics. If that guy wanted to show off his athleticism, he’d go ski jumping. I think it’s fucked that chess got rejected – I guess it lacks the amazing… Read more »
@dungone: Do men not compete in rhythmic gymnastics? I could have sworn I saw several men doing that ball-routine and ribbon thing.
Fuck that, kaija24. You have to prove that concerns about women’s health was in any way a deal breaker AND that the concern for athlete heath was primarily motivated by sexism. That’s just stupid. What you’re doing here is finding a reason, any reason and saying that it’s gotta be sexist even though you have no proof. Until now you’ve been arguing that it’s sexism because they have a competitive field, 16 coutnries, 135 athletes, more competitors than other women’s (but not men’s?) Olympic sports, etc. When I shot down each of those ideas one by one, you shifted the… Read more »
@kaija24: It seems then that the any outcry regarding women’s ski jumping not being an Olympic event is unnecessary, right? It’s not evidence of sexism that women aren’t allowed to ski-jump if there just isn’t enough competition. I’m surprised that it isn’t more popular though, I’ll bet women would be just as good as men at it. Speaking of which: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyEeu_JOvuY Friggin’ adorable! Regarding the article itself, I think Ozy’s right on. However, the fact that men are more likely to have physical attributes conducive to fighting may suggest that it is in fact an inherently more male thing. After… Read more »
“If the argument for inclusion of female ski jumping is that women should be allowed to compete in a significantly less competitive field than the men have to compete in, then I’m not so sure if it’s about sexism so much as it is about special treatment.” World women’s chess championship. Only women admitted. Not sure their stance on trans women. World’s chess championship (not men’s, just everyone’s). Everyone admitted. Guess which has more people? Same for World Series of Poker, women’s only event, plus a for-everyone event. Both chess and poker have NO argument about strength, speed, tallness, muscles,… Read more »
And on the subject of manly sports/activities and harking back to my previous link about men in tights, check out this video of the National Ballet of Canada’s Guillame Cote, “Lost In Motion”…breathtaking artistry meets amazing athleticism! 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OR-n3Rg6E8
@kaija24, once again, you have a situation where male ski jumpers are already sanctioned due to health concerns. Is it sexist against men to force them to have a BMI over 20? We know that ski jumping is bad for men’s health. Why is it sexist to say that it’s bad for women’s bodies? If that was the only reason for rejecting the sport, I’d agree with you. But it was a reason that seems to me like a fair argument to make in addition to the main reason of it not being a competitive field. How do you know… Read more »
Note that I also said that any sort of sexism is sexism, full stop. It’s not a battle of the sexes thing…
Now if they DO get to the point where they have a lot of teams/athletes and a “world championship”-type system, meet the criteria for inclusion and petition the IOC but get turned down for some BS reason like “our viewers/sponsors don’t like the idea of men in waterproof makeup”, then that is some fucked up crap.
I think the onus is on you to come up with an Olympic sport where men have asked to be included but have been denied with “explanations” based on gender stereotypes. Synchro swim and rhythmic gymnastics haven’t been denied because they haven’t gone up for inclusion yet. So what other Olympic sport are men banned from?
@kaija24, at most I see it as an uneven treatment of ski jumpers as compared to other women’s sports. Standards should be even, yes. If the field of female ski jumpers is anywhere near as competitive as the field of male ski jumpers, then you have a point. I don’t know the sport well enough to know either way. Please compare apples to apples so that your argument is stronger and more convincing. I’m not against women ski jumpers in the Olympics. They just had their first world cup. At the same time I don’t see how having 1 World… Read more »
You’re setting up a false dichotomy based on your particular interpretation/axe to grind…not interested. Sexism against women’s ski jumpers was evident, in my opinion, from the publicly stated “reason” that “it’s not good for the ladies from a medical point of view” given to substantiate the original denial. There’s no definition of what exactly constitutes a “competitive field” that would apply to all sports anyways, so there’s no point. That’s clearly what the IOC has to figure out for each petition.
@kaija24, so I actually asked you to show me an example of where a men’s sport is included even though it’s got a less competitive field than the women. Instead, you pointed out two examples where it definitely hasn’t happened like that. Can you do better, in order to demonstrate the sexism against women ski-jumpers in a clear-cut way?
Don’t be dense, dungone. In order to even be considered for the Games, a sport must have an substantial and competitive field with an established elite level competition circuit in place. Women’s ski jumping is at that level, and thus these athletes have petitioned for inclusion in the Olympics (and will be part of the next Olympics). Men’s syncro and rhythmic gymnastics are in their infancy, do not have many competitors (yet) nor an elite competition circuit and thus have not asked to be included in the Games…but as I said, I think they will get there with time. Now… Read more »
Women’s ski jumping exists as well. So you’re saying that’s not a reason to include them in the Olympics, after all…
@coloradosal, women also don’t do the decathalon – their version only has 8 events. But the 2 missing events aren’t male-only in singles competition. It’s just a different tradition, I guess. I think if you exclude 1 of 2 events that make a biathlon, then you just get the other event, right? It doesn’t seem like they’re actually excluding another sport besides ski jumping there. FWIW men also can’t compete in an 800 meter swim. That’s female-only. If men want an extra medal, they’ve gotta suck it up and swim 1500 meters, which women don’t. I just don’t know what’s… Read more »
Men’s synchronized swimming and men’s rhythmic gymnastics DO exist, but there aren’t a lot of teams/competitors yet, and thus they have not yet petitioned to be included in the Olympics (so they haven’t yet had the chance to go up for a decision either way). However, as these sports grow in popularity, I’m willing to bet they will be added in future. 🙂
@coradosal: Good examples. I also enjoy the Nordic combined! 🙂 And your grad school cheerleader example points out the real and often hurtful limitations in tired stereotypes like you “smart or pretty but not both” or “all cheerleaders are airheads.” A flipside for men would be something like what this author writes about being male ballet dancer (Don’t Judge Me By My Tights): http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/03/08/don-t-judge-me-by-my-tights.html
For the love of cheese, let’s just let every person choose activities and competitions and careers and hobbies and roles that interest them…it’s not that difficult a concept! :/
Good call, Schala. I guess we have to immediately remove women’s synchronized swimming and rhythmic gymnastics or else force the IOC to include men in those sports. I was taken aback that I didn’t even think of that – so many articles that came up when I searched for women’s ski jumping prominently denounced the sport as being the only one in the Olympics where women aren’t allowed, as if we were all supposed to be shocked at how prevalent sexism against women is. “135 top-level female ski jumpers in 16 countries … more than the number of women competing… Read more »