Apparently the Boy Scouts of America do not want sexuality to be put in Scouting, which is why they’re kicking out LGB scoutmasters who happen to have the temerity to be out of the closet.
Look, people. I think we can all agree that eight-year-olds should not be exposed to adults having sex. But having a gay scoutmaster doesn’t mean that the people are getting shown hardcore gay porn (HOT BEAR-ON-BEAR ACTION!!!!!). It means that they’ll realize that sometimes boys kiss boys, the same way that sometimes boys kiss girls. If you believe that’s sexuality, you have to believe that children having a mom and dad is sexuality. It’s exposing them to heterosexuality at an impressionable age. Aren’t you worried that they might figure out that their parents are attracted to each other? That would surely traumatize them forever. They might grow up… you know… (whispers) breeders.
The only safe option is to only allow asexuals as scoutmasters!
Seriously, guys, the Girl Scouts are on this shit. They have scouts and leaders who are attracted to women, who are trans, who are atheists. And yet absolutely nothing bad has happened except some weird people on the Internet complaining that they’re part of a cultural Marxist conspiracy. Why do the Boy Scouts suck so hard on this sort of issue? It is my opinion that every boy should have an equal right to learn to tie knots and go camping if he so desires, and that qualified scoutmasters should not be turned away based on the type of genitalia they appreciate. Boy Scouts should be for every kind of boy– and gay boys are not somehow less boys.
I think the problem is that the Boy Scouts are trying to be neutral and there really isn’t a neutral option here. There’s Option Bigot and Option Decent Human Being, i.e., Option Gay People Can’t Be Scoutmasters and Option Gay People Can Be Scoutmasters. There’s not a Gay People Can Be Scoutmasters But Only Kind Of option. They have to actually stand up and say what they believe in, and what they believe in is, unfortunately, rank bigotry.
Also, I don’t think “there should be no sexuality in Scouts” is necessarily a self-evident position…? I got sex ed from Planned Parenthood through my scout troop, and it was very informative, age-appropriate, and all around a valuable experience.
I know of quite a few lesbians who used the GSUSA as a market to have sex with little girls, and nothing was done because woman-on-girls do not result in a possible pregnancy.
The Boy Scouts are a voluntary organization–don’t like their rules, don’t join. It’s called freedom of association.
And I think branding anyone who disagrees with your opinions as a “Bigot” is a cheap and somewhat juvenile rhetorical trick.
Anonymous, so what word would you suggest we use for “a person who believes it’s okay to treat another person as an object of disgust over a disagreement or disapproval in personal choices that apply ONLY to the second party and not the first, thus meaning the first is unaffected and should have no stake in the choice”? It’s called having the courage to speak truth to power; when power is bigoted, it must be told so repeatedly until it stops being bigoted. What’s cute is how incensed bigots get when negative rhetoric (of which they’re normally massive fans) is… Read more »
Name calling is what you do when you can’t , or won’t, engage the other side’s arguments.
What arguments?
> juvenile
Nice ageism you got there.
Would you have preferred sophomoric?
Um, what? They’re entirely within their right to bar gay scoutmasters. Likewise, we have the right to call them out on their bullshit. And as someone who holds the highest rank in the organization, I think I actually have a vested interest in the messages they choose to send.
I’m an Eagle Scout, and someone who thinks the BSA is a great organization despite their warts, so I’m really disappointed in this. I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and they just keep letting everyone down. Fuck!
It’s worth noting that the individual troops operate pretty much entirely independently from the central apparatus that keeps pulling this bullshit. I had a really nice, inclusive troop and there were two guys and one scoutmaster who were openly gay and it was never an issue, we just neglected to tell Corporate about it.
this has been my experience too. I spent seven summers working at a boy scout camp, and there were a number of us who were gay, or bisexual.
And yes, this is deeply disappointing and I really wish the Head Office would pull their heads out of their asses
Apparently, the BSA’s official policy changed from “no gays allowed” to “don’t ask, don’t tell” some time around 2004… (Source.)
Yeah, they do. Isn’t it awesome to be part of a minority that, while widely distrusted, basically ALWAYS has passing privilege?
” They have scouts and leaders who are attracted to women, who are trans, who are atheists.”
Actually, they explicitly forbid atheists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_atheists_and_agnostics
You misread. The Girl Scouts accept bi, lesbian, trans, and atheist members, the Boy Scouts don’t.
Oh whoops, indeed I did. NM then.
“I think the problem is that the Boy Scouts are trying to be neutral and there really isn’t a neutral option here.”
I think people like to think that somehow “doing nothing” is neutral. But really the problem is that “doing nothing” perpetuates the status quo, which at the moment is discriminatory and heteronormative. Therefore, “doing nothing,” is actually doing something…and that something isn’t helpful.
And yet absolutely nothing bad has happened except some weird people on the Internet complaining that they’re part of a cultural Marxist conspiracy.
Well, and some of the girls grew up to think gay, trans*, and/or atheist people were human beings. Which a few of their parents have told me is a WORLD-ENDING TRAVESTY. I just smile and nod, because as far as I’m concerned, “girls think all people are people” = “I did my job.”
/ Girl Scout leader happy
I think there’s some sort of “heterosexuality (and/or heteronormativity) is invisible” fallacy going on. Sure, it’s largely invisible to hetero adults after many years of exposure, just like most people completely ignore internet ads once they get used to them. But that doesn’t make it not there. Am I making any sense here?
Exactly, so. I think people think it is so normal that it must be natural, and therefore requires no discussion. Everyone is assumed to be heterosexual (unless you have the temerity not to perform your gender correctly, and then the whole misunderstanding that gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing goes on)…but I digress… Yeah, I think it is certainly part of the larger problem…not only making people aware that non-heterosexual & non-cis people exist, but also making people aware of the fact that heterosexual, & cis people have gender identity and have sexual orientation as much… Read more »
Do you think that the change in the military will have an affect on the Scouts?
Well, the military allows atheists, but they regularly pay for evangelical speakers to provide “inspiration” for the troops. And if you don’t want to go get bible-thumped for two hours? Then you can stay back and clean the barracks!
This is all anecdotal, but its petty little crap like that.
The Military and the LDS church love to micromanage the BSA. Ironically, I think we care less about girl scouts because we don’t take women as seriously. We don’t particularly care about making women well-rounded and capable, people just want young men primed and well-trained to take the most dubious orders without question.
The way Boy Scout troops are supposed to be run, the boys are supposed to plan everything and make all the decisions. The adults are just there to stop them when they’re making a stupid/dangerous decision. That’s the way my troop worked, at least, and I don’t really see how that’s priming men to take dubious orders without question. It’s kind of the opposite, actually.
I’m thinking less about “how do I build this fire” and more about “what the fuck am I doing in the woods / invading this country in the first place.” Society values boys more than girls, but only as tools.
Invading this country? What do you mean? As a European in America? As a human in the wilderness?
The Boys Scouts were founded to provide men with the skillset needed to participate in the armed forces.
Same here. Teaching leadership and decisionmaking is pretty much the stated goal of the BSA, and my troop did it/
We kind of sucked at it, or at least some of us did. But we learned a lot about dealing with difficult people
We could stand to loose those quasi-military uniforms though, as well as my annoying ex-military scoutmaster who loves to hear himself talk about the military.
While some elements of the BSA have had a worryingly militaristic cast, I’ve never been in close contact with them. I’m more worried about the goddamn Native American appropriation.
THis sucks so badly. Fortunately, while I was in scouts our leaders were all very liberal and refused to let any of that horrible be a thing.
Our scouts on the other hand… You could have schooled them. There were about 5 of us who never went through some period of horrible asshole-hypermasculinity.