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Black Humor said: “Second the point is not that some random mine worker necessarily has more power than his wife. He has more POTENTIAL power.” Yeah, and guess what, potential power doesn’t mean jack-diddily-squat when you’re in a hole somewhere hoping that you don’t get blown to bits. There are a *crap* ton of guys who were, are, and will be in this *exact* situation for nothing other than being male. Because they have no other choice. This isn’t easily quantified and generally all oppression olympics does is make people ignore or minimize many types of oppression for their own… Read more »
@Blackhumor
On average a woman in a male-female race has an even chance at willing a local election. On reelections they had a 7% better chance even though there were no measurable differences in policies or their outcomes.
http://www.econ.brown.edu/econ/events/female%20leadership%2002_22_2011.pdf
@Schala: Well, first that would be something like 95% to 99%* when you count all the various local politicians out there. And then counting clergy and other powers that only or mostly men can have the difference grows even more. Second the point is not that some random mine worker necessarily has more power than his wife. He has more POTENTIAL power. If he wanted to run for some kind of office he’d have a much better chance of being elected than his wife, small as it is. And sure, a rich man (or even woman) who comes from an… Read more »
@Daisy I think 99% of men have no more political power than 99% of women. You’ll have to do a lot more to convince me that men have political power, than “But, but 1% of men can be in office, at some point in their life – and do like everyone else, step on everyone below them, including men.” Men’s rights, men’s healthcare concerns, Men as victims of DV, and the Violence Against Men Act – are not politically popular issues, even for men in politics (who don’t care ONE BIT about people those things would benefit, only if it… Read more »
High class women?
Where is my royal blood? Or my middle-class income? Cause being on welfare is not a sign of high class around here. Maybe in the US, they just leave people to die if they don’t work, here they don’t. Instead they leave them to die (from hunger, from cold, from drugs etc – homelessness in general) for other reasons, usually ableist reasons.
UncalledFor, about women: They are on top, and have an enormous amount to lose if things change. Uncalled For, wow, REALLY? So we now have 83% of the Senate, a woman president, a woman pope, woman Ayatollahs, and most of the Fortune 500 is female? And we make the highest salaries and have the least unemployment? REALLY? They have allowed the largest church in the world to ordain women? They have stopped covering up women in Saudi and let them have drivers’ licenses? When did this all of this happen, over Thanksgiving? Damn, and I missed it! Show me the… Read more »
AB said a while back: without acknowledging that no feminist has actually gone through with murdering men for being men, while many mass murders have been motivated by anti-feminist and MRA attitudes and been defended by people in the MRM. She seem to be unaware of the fact that there has been several millitant feminists groups performing actions like bombings, fire-bombing, arson and vandalism as means in their fight against the patriarchy. Although I haven’t found confirmation that any were killed by pure feminists cells (domestic RZ which included feminism in their doctrine were responsible for one death) I would… Read more »
AB: I’ve told you earlier that I didn’t want to downplay your bad experiences, but I’ve changed my mind. Changing your mind on this would require you actually not downplaying my experiences in the first place. But time and time again its “some feminist somewhere that hurt your feelings” or “vague….” or “obscure….”. (You say I’ve never given you examples until now even though I’m pretty sure you asked for specifics back when we first crossed paths at Clarisse’s.) You’re acting extremely sexist, openly praising the balance and reason of people who do the exact same thing you accuse feminists… Read more »
AB that was happening to me a week or so ago. For some reason I was able to post in other places but just not that one thread. Weird.
Danny, I want to answer the latter part your post, but all my posts end up in moderation and I’m not quite sure why, as I’ve not been prevented from posting anything else.
@Danny: 3. Finding out the hard way that when you aren’t a part of the in crowd comments consisting of nothing more than, “Are you a fucking moron?”, “Fuck, Danny”, ect. are fine. Oh, you mean like how “I hate Daisy”, “I’d like to just write her off as an idiot”, “I’m so glad she’s banned from this site”, and “Of course, the thing is that people aren’t thinking she’s a bitch, they’re thinking that she’s not right in the head.” is fine when someone isn’t a part of the in crowd on the sites you support? Anything you say… Read more »
Darque, Dungone, Schala, you are wasting your time. Women good, men bad, the end. Daisy and AB have taken over the building and no one gets out alive.
This is the view, and they won’t listen to anything different. It is etched in stone. They have not budged one single inch. And of course, why should they? They are on top, and have an enormous amount to lose if things change. Best of luck on other threads and other blogs.
“Darque, reading comprehension, it’s a good thing”
Reading does not equal agreement. 😉
The official patriarchy line would want a word with you, you mixed those up. We’re still in Victorian-mindset-chivalry, you see.
AB: Actually, someone else quoted Daisy, and you went with that quote. That’s slightly different than her choosing to bring something up and you responding (mostly because she didn’t have a choice in that situation, and you didn’t respond to her). So, in a thread were people were bashing her, your reaction was to make a comment about something she’d referred to positively as “Its like really, really, really, bad programming or something.”, as well as taking about “some of them [feminists]” in way which made it sound like you were including her. All happening before TB objected. I agree… Read more »
I’ve had a post in moderation for several hours.
AB: Anyway, haven spoken with feminists, I don’t think your interpretation is correct. I don’t think most of the ones mentioning the men on top hold them to be representative of all men (except in the most symbolic way). In my experience, even when the men on top are not brought up, people arguing against feminists tend to use it as an argument anyway. As in “men have more economic power than women” getting met with “only a few men are CEOs”. I’ve spoken with feminists as well so while its not the representation of all of them yes my… Read more »
@Danny: 2. Being told the only reason I disagree with the way the fat acceptance folks leave men hanging is because I’m denying my male privilege. I’ve tried that. In fact, I got several of my comments deleted here because I said “I agree that women have a privilege in regards to a, b, and c, but not in x, y, and z”. The favourite moderator of the FC crowd, doctormindbeam, said that I denied female privilege, deleted every comment were I responded that since I had already acknowledged several forms of female privilege, I wasn’t denying it, just disagreeing… Read more »
@Danny: As in recognizing there are men at the top, ignoring the many, many, many, more that are at the bottom and then declaring that men as a class are privileged. And then of course going from there to conclude that any given man is privileged, even if his own life says differently. Crossing the line to where the theory is given more weight than the practice. That’s funny, because I’ve seen the same done with coalminers here. The last time was when an old play about a an androgynous young man (a crossdressed woman) whom many women turned out… Read more »
I’m giving this thread a rest, if anyone’s wondering. I’m sure everyone will pick this all up again later.
Snoozefest. Let’s talk about something different. As white ribbon day comes and goes, I’ve come to reflect a little bit on the concept of violence and gender. I’ve also come to reflect on gendered social movements, whose beneficiaries are aimed primarily to be one sex or another. I’ve long since believed that as long as someone is doing good in the world, it is not my place to criticise what kind of good they are doing. As such, I can do nothing but genuinely applaud the white ribbon movement. Domestic violence is serious business, and it is good that there… Read more »
AB: I’m not sure what you mean with the conclusion being calculated. And it’s fairly standard to talk about which groups the people at the top belong to, because it tends to say a lot about a society. But we’ve already had this discussion many times before, and considering how often you seem to have it with feminists, I’m going to say there are some fundamental differences. As in recognizing there are men at the top, ignoring the many, many, many, more that are at the bottom and then declaring that men as a class are privileged. And then of… Read more »
Aaargh!
I wrote:
The last word in that sentence should have been “anti-feminist,” not “feminist.”
Responding to Ballgame: My claim is that not that you’re always belligerent to feminists personally, or that you never write anything other than attacks on feminism. I apologize that my poor writing gave you the false impression that I was making such a claim; it was not my intent, and if I could rewrite my earlier comment I’d phrase myself more carefully. I completely withdraw the word “nonstop.” What I am claiming is that when it comes to feminism, you exhibit a clear pattern of taking positions that are not obviously different from MRA and anti-feminist positions, but you virtually… Read more »
@Danny: No. What I have a problem with is this conclusion is calculated. By means of focusing on the numerical minority of men who are indeed at the top. My problem lies in the fact that those few men at the top are held as the representation of the entire gender. So while I don’t call this system a patriarchy I do agree there are patriarchal forces at work. I’m not sure what you mean with the conclusion being calculated. And it’s fairly standard to talk about which groups the people at the top belong to, because it tends to… Read more »