This Open Thread has been brought to you by Carl Sagan, who is awesome.
About ozyfrantz
Ozy Frantz is a student at a well-respected Hippie College in the United States. Zie bases most of zir life decisions on Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, and identifies more closely with Pinkie Pie than is probably necessary. Ozy can be contacted at [email protected] or on Twitter as @ozyfrantz. Writing is presently Ozy's primary means of support, so to tip the blogger, click here.
@f., I don’t want it to seem like I’m ignoring you. I didn’t address you on the other thread because I didn’t get back to NSWATM until after it got locked (at least for that topic), and here I agree with your post and can’t find anything I want to add to it. @Jay Generally, Such a high percentage of Americans are in custody of some part of the penal system that they’ve long formed a self-sustaining underclass forever barred from any real hope of career advancement or re-integration into society. This doesn’t solve crime or social unrest; it’s not… Read more »
NMMNG: Why did you want to talk with feminists ? To learn about them. It was my understanding they were about equality. I had to find out for myself. And like I said after all the negative spin I had heard about them I had check. While not all the negative spin is true it was true in places that surprised me and hurt. (But for some reason that still doesn’t stop the occasional feminist to look toward “the media”, the Limbaughs, and the mean old MRAs as the only reasons that someone may have a negative opinion about feminism.… Read more »
f, one thing about women (feminists and non) I greatly dislike is passive aggression…which in the south is also known as being chickenshit. You know, that whole “SOME PEOPLE say” instead of coming right out and naming the person you are talking about. For example: I think a lot of women on these threads have been shouting TAKE OPTION 2! SECOND DOOR TO YOUR LEFT! GET OUT OF THE BASEMENT, THE MONSTERS ARE RIGHT BEHIND YOU! in a loud and insensitive way. But of course it’s not easy at all to do that, and it’s an ongoing struggle to stay… Read more »
pocketjacks: But they never said it when it counted, and it takes a drawn-out charge of inconsistency to coax it out of them.
Um, hello? You talkin to me?
I have been saying it since about 1972, which is probably before you were born. Why haven’t yall been listening? How often must I say it before it suddenly “counts”?
What/who are you talking about, exactly?
@Danny: While what you say does happen I have no problem with people saying they have problems with my views. What I do have a problem with is when I have been directly told something to the effect of, “he’s not even a feminist why is he here?” or “you’re not a feminist so nothing you have to say is relevant.” And then of course there is the “If you’re not a feminist then you’re a bigot” attitude that while not representative of the whole movement people seem to be able to say it without being questioned on it too… Read more »
@Schala: But I’ve been told that men “should build it themselves” (even though much of what was built here, in Quebec province, has been done with government ascent – and men’s approval as voters – and funding from day 1). (sarcasm)Well, of course, you can’t give government funding to men’s DV shelters (or require shelters to be gender-neutral to receive funding) because there’s only so much money to go around, and it’s more important to spend it on the “real” (read: female, preferably cis female) victims.(/sarcasm) …oh, wait, I’ve actually heard people argue that before without sarcasm. Actually, didn’t someone… Read more »
Hey all, HuffPo had another post I thought was relevant to this site’s interests. It’s about mass incarceration and specifically compares it to a horrendous disease. I endorse it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-froomkin/incarceration-rates_b_1332476.html
“Why did you want to talk with feminists ?” I’ll answer for myself: Because it was marketed as the one movement for equality. I thought I’d met the good movement that works for everyone to end all oppressions. And while what I found wasn’t hell, I have been told I was hateful, misogynist and anti-woman for supporting men’s rights as well as women’s rights. That is, I’m for DV shelters and laws that are gender-neutral. Rape crisis shelters and laws that are gender-neutral. But I’ve been told that men “should build it themselves” (even though much of what was built… Read more »
@dungone, I can definitely imagine that. I’ve known plenty of self-declared feminists who basically thought that meant “I am right, other people are wrong” – essentially, like anyone else who becomes certain they’ve found the one objective truth in the universe, and start using it as a blunt instrument. My absolute favorite was a girl who once screamed at me like a banshee in public for no good reason – when my boyfriend stepped in to calmly say, “why are you talking to her like that?” this woman’s reply was “Oh, fuck off with your macho bullshit, acting like you… Read more »
@Danny: While what you say does happen I have no problem with people saying they have problems with my views. What I do have a problem with is when I have been directly told something to the effect of, “he’s not even a feminist why is he here?” or “you’re not a feminist so nothing you have to say is relevant.” And then of course there is the “If you’re not a feminist then you’re a bigot” attitude that while not representative of the whole movement people seem to be able to say it without being questioned on it too… Read more »
One thing I will give to traditionalist women – they seem to know the boundaries of “friendship” and “relationship” quite well and they respect it. I have never found myself in a “friendzone” scenario with a traditional woman. That “nice guy” feeling is when you’re performing tasks that should be relegated to a formal relationship with a woman who keeps stringing you along. This is something that only a non-traditional woman can really do. With a traditional woman, I find it much more likely to be the case that if you invite them for a one-on-one study date, they’re much… Read more »
Telling someone to find a nice feminist woman to date is just as silly as telling a woman to start paying more attention to [buzzword alert] nice guys. “You’re just not looking hard enough!” … lol no. Thank you, f! For what it’s worth, feminist women aren’t a bed of roses either. Because feminism does not generally focus on masculine issues, dating a feminist can end up being the worst of both worlds – someone who vigilantly enforces male gender roles while demanding subservience to their own special set of terms for the relationship. Been there, done that! It goes… Read more »
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2140
And I meant to say “But she might just as well (or even, as in my case, more likely) just want to share your intelligence and competence.” in my last post.
I really like that thing the cartoonist did with a sentence being split up into single-word word balloons. Nice technique there.
AB: I’ve looked at some of your posts in other places, and from what I’ve seen, the reason you’re sometimes dismissed in feminist spaces is not that you’re not a feminist, but rather that your views place you in the category of MRA. While what you say does happen I have no problem with people saying they have problems with my views. What I do have a problem with is when I have been directly told something to the effect of, “he’s not even a feminist why is he here?” or “you’re not a feminist so nothing you have to… Read more »
@f: “Still, if someone invites you to study or work one-on-one, I think you can safely assume there is something more there than the fact that it doesn’t seem like you’ll turn into Dr. Hyde the second you are sitting with a woman one-on-one. I’m sure you must be showing intelligence, competence and kindness in order to seem like a good study partner to these girls.” Yeah. You know, there must be something more. That’s what I thought too, like 15 years ago. My point is, as opposed to NMMNG’s statement, a woman seeking you out for platonic reasons give… Read more »
@Pocketjacks:
NMMNG said ” If a woman invites you, it means she trust you and maybe she’s attracted to you. ”
I just wanted to underline the “maybe” in that sentence, and add that she might just as well just have a general feeling of being “safe” when alone with you, i.e. you won’t try anything.
And, since I stated this as an experience and not an opinion, I don’t see it as something for someone else to agree with or not.
@Flying, yeah, I guess I’m having a hard time seeing past my personal “do everything in groups!” mindset. I never studied one on one actually, I formed a study group : P Still, if someone invites you to study or work one-on-one, I think you can safely assume there is something more there than the fact that it doesn’t seem like you’ll turn into Dr. Hyde the second you are sitting with a woman one-on-one. I’m sure you must be showing intelligence, competence and kindness in order to seem like a good study partner to these girls. Now I won’t… Read more »
@pocketjacks, I agree with you on the issue of “well dump her!” It’s a facile response. Telling someone to find a nice feminist woman to date is just as silly as telling a woman to start paying more attention to [buzzword alert] nice guys. “You’re just not looking hard enough!” … lol no. On the other hand, I do think that many feminist women have found we had to make adjustments in our dating habits in order to find partners we want to be with. When society is set up in such a way that the majority is following harmful… Read more »
@NoMoreMrNiceGuy: There are women who were attracted to be because they saw me as “harmless”. Good for you then. I was referring my own experiences. @f: I don’t know if it’s the “baseline”. I was referring more to the “invite to study/work” part (in a one-on-one setting) of NMMNG’s post, than the “invite to hang out” (in a group setting). @AB: I guess that “harmless” in another person does more for your personal safety when you are alone with zie(?), as in a study/work situation referred above, than when you hang out with that person in a group among other… Read more »
Having the hots for a man you feel safe around – which seems basically universal – is not all incongruent with finding a man non-sexual because he’s “harmless”. A lot of women can’t get that feeling of security with weak men precisely because he’s “harmless”, and conversely, the atavistic sense that he’s strong and can protect you is precisely what makes some women feel safe. This can be psychological, it can also be deeply physical, a lot of women need that feeling of envelopment and sturdiness when embracing a man. (No such luck to short or skinny guys, then.) I… Read more »
@Lamech, Lets take another situation: Suppose all men had expectations for their wives like: They would do all the house work. They would stay home and raise children. They would accept the husband’s decisions ect. ect. This would be seen as discrimination or sexism! Indeed we here about how woman are discriminated against because when they have children they are the ones whose careers usually take a hit. So on and so forth. This is what I was getting at in the other thread. When there’s a group of men who have toxic, self-serving ideas about gender and sex, the… Read more »
Lamech: Now if we apply what you two are saying
I speak for me, AB speaks for AB. Please stop conflating our comments and expecting us to answer for each other. I do not expect you to answer for Dungone, nor him to answer for you.
Just saw an interview with a known trans woman from Quebec province and her wife. The interview was about the wife getting out a book. I was disgusted, and so was my boyfriend, by the casual dismissal of the femaleness of the trans woman in which her wife participated in. Me and my boyfriend agreed that besides blind love and acquiescence to psychological abuse, the motive was probably desperation from ever finding anyone who understands her better, rather than acceptance of this stance that she is lesser, a man “pretending”, donning woman’s clothing sometimes. I mean the wife got all… Read more »
@f.: don’t know, is “harmless” really the baseline women have for men they want to hang out with? I invite guys along because I think they’re cool, fun to be around, and would fit in well with my friends. Plus I might well be trying to get a good look at what a man is like as a person, to see whether I might want to try dating him. Or thinking he might like to meet some of my female friends. “Harmless” doesn’t get an invite. Agreed. Though I will say that there’s an overlap for me between feeling safe… Read more »
Anyone going to PAX East this year?
I was reading over the panel schedule listing and saw a couple on topic for this site. There’s one titled “Press XY: Transgender Issues in Gaming” (originally titled “It’s a Trap?: Transgender Issues in Gaming” but the group running the panel renamed it in response to complaints), and another titled “Real RPGs: Sexuality, religion, and race in design and play.”