Mika Doyle responds to commenters who are sick of reading dating “don’t” lists.
I was excited to see some great conversation happening in the comments of my piece “The Top Three Mistakes Men Make in Online Dating.” Both men and women shared their experiences with online dating and debated over the mistakes and fixes I offered in the piece. Throughout it all, what became most apparent during the discussion is that men didn’t want a “don’t” list. In fact, they’re sick of “don’t” lists. What they really want is some advice on what to do instead.
I hesitated to even write this piece because what people like is far more subjective than what people don’t like. To oversimplify what I mean, let’s take coffee for example. Most people can agree they don’t like scalding hot coffee, but it’s tough to get people to agree on how they do like their coffee. Black? Just cream? Just sugar? A combination of the two? How do you reconcile a trillion different preferences in order to offer men advice on what to do to be successful with online dating?
The reality is that I can’t. All I can do is set some parameters and offer my advice based on my own experiences and hope that it helps at least a few guys out there.
To that end, this is my list “to do’s” for people (yes, people, not just men) who are trying to find a long-term partner using an online dating site:
1. Only use current photos in your profile: One of the most common complaints I hear from men is that women frequently misrepresent themselves in their photos by using old photos (sometimes decades old) or by cropping them in too tightly so you don’t realize they are of a certain body type. Obviously men do this as well; I’ve just heard this complaint more frequently from men than from women.
I used to think this was shallow advice, but it all comes down to honesty. One of the men I met through an online dating site thanked me for looking exactly like my photos because one woman he went on a date with ended up gaining a significant amount of weight since the photos she posted were taken. He told me it wasn’t that he minded she was overweight; he was upset by the fact that she lied to him.
Some people feel posting inaccurate photos of themselves is the only way to get dates because people judge so heavily by appearance. Okay, sure you might get more dates. But are those dates resulting in the relationship you were looking for? If your date is feeling lied to, probably not.
2. Don’t skimp on your profile: I’m just going to say it — filling out your online dating profile is a pain in the ass, especially if you have to take a long quiz beforehand to determine your personality type. Despite this unfortunate reality, you really should set aside a good chunk of time to dedicate to filling out your online profile if you really want to find a compatible mate. Think of it this way: as you’re perusing profiles looking for someone who might make a good match, do you contact the people with hardly anything in their profiles?
3. Be yourself: Filling out those profiles is tough. How do you accurately describe yourself without coming off as arrogant or boring? There’s no formula for this; all I can say is do not try to be someone you think others want you to be. It’s just like posting an inaccurate photo of yourself; sooner or later people are going to realize that’s not the real you, throwing your chances of a long-term relationship out the window.
4. Don’t write a novel: Just as you don’t want to have too sparse of a profile, you also don’t want your profile to be a novel. Respect people’s time by not writing any more than you’d be willing to read yourself. Moderation is the key here; provide enough information to give people a clear snapshot of who you are, but don’t bore them to death War-and-Peace-style.
5. Place critical information at the top of your profile: If you’re looking for something very specific, such as deal-breakers you absolutely want people to know about, place that information at the very top of your profile. Even if they don’t read your whole profile, they’ll at least know you don’t want children or are allergic to cats (my boyfriend and I never would have dated if I’d owned a cat instead of a dog because he’s severely allergic to cats).
6. Read the profiles of your potential mates carefully: Just as you took a lot of time and energy to write a good profile for yourself, so did a lot of other people. And just like you, those people are trying to communicate to you and the rest of their potential mates what they bring to the relationship table. Don’t you both deserve to have your profiles read carefully and thoroughly? After all, if online dating profiles are a part of the whole online dating process, why skip that step? For those who put some real thought into their profiles, there’s some really valuable information there.
7. Don’t be afraid to make the first move: Do “traditional” dating rules apply in online dating (i.e. men make the first move)? Truthfully, I don’t think traditional dating rules should apply in offline dating. If you are interested in someone, make a move.
8. Write a quality first message: We all know competition is fierce in the online dating world, so why waste time writing non-memorable introductory messages? A commenter on my “Three Mistakes …” piece said someone kept messaging them the word “hi.” Just “hi.” I don’t think that really “wowed” them.
This is one of the most difficult areas on which to give advice because this is the “coffee” of the online dating world (if you skipped the intro to this piece and went straight to the tips, this reference probably made no sense). This was my introductory message strategy:
Hi, [insert name],
I read your profile and really like that [insert a hobby, activity, job – something you liked about that person that made you think they might make a good match for you]. I’d really like a chance to get to know you. If you get a chance, please take a minute to read my profile to see if you’d like to get to know me as well.
Hope to hear from you soon!
So what are the elements of this message that appealed to me? I liked messages that were personal but not creepy personal, like the messages in which men would describe in gross detail how we’d live our lives together based on what they read in my profile. There’s something to be said about keeping your introductory message brief and casual. The personal touch shows you’re genuinely interested, but the brevity and non-committal tone shows you know you’re special, too, so you’re willing to walk away. Personally, I didn’t like to feel pressured; I wanted the chance to really get to know people before deciding if I wanted to date them, so men who offered the same kind of casual confidence really got my attention.
9. Be patient: People have different commitments in their lives, and online dating isn’t always at the very top. Sometimes you’ll receive responses right away. Most of the time? Well, most of the time you probably won’t even get a response. Don’t let that faze you. That is not a personal reflection on you. Remember what you’re up against (now’s a good time to refer back to my “Three Mistakes …” piece to read about some of the behaviors that turn women off to online dating). Women frequently receive messages that are sexually crude or downright mean and nasty. Most of these women are seeking long-term relationships, so this type of behavior often causes them to isolate their interactions to only the men they are interested in. It’s not fair to you, but that’s the reality you’re facing.
Many people turn to online dating because they simply don’t have the time to date in the traditional sense (i.e. going on date after date after date to find “the one”). That means they also don’t have time to answer every single message they receive in their inbox. Other people like to use online dating as a buffer that allows them to pick and choose who they interact with, and that’s not always going to be you. But that’s okay.
Bottom line: It’s natural to become discouraged every once in awhile, but don’t let it get you down for too long. Offline or online, dating is flat out hard, but remember you’re still a worthy mate for someone out there. You just need to have the patience to find that person, wherever they are.
10. Be graceful with rejection: As I said in Tip #9, dating is discouraging. I hear men say all the time that online dating is not fair because the male/female ratio is so skewed. Men tell me all the time they hardly ever receive responses to their messages, while women’s inboxes are completely inundated with messages every day. I don’t have enough data to back that statement up, and, honestly, I don’t feel that I need any data to back that statement up. Obviously men’s experiences with online dating have made them feel this way, regardless of data. So how do you deal with this problem?
Accept the harsh reality of online dating and make it your mission to be graceful with rejection. You can’t change the landscape, so why let it drive you to bitterness? You’re better than that. As I said before, you’re going to get discouraged. That’s only natural. But don’t allow yourself to remain in that state, and don’t allow that discouragement to affect the way you interact with people on the site you’re using. We’re all guilty of it; I’m guilty of it. Let’s all vow to be better.
These 10 pieces of advice are just the tip of the iceberg. There’s so much more about online dating to discuss, such as the differences in the ways men and women experience online dating. You’ve heard from me; now it’s your turn. Let’s keep the conversation going.
—
photo: unlistedsightings / flickr
This is great information for anybody interested in online dating. My friend has been divorced for a few years, and he wants to start dating again. I have told him to look into dating sites, but he is unsure of how to build a profile. I like that you mentioned to put critical information at the very top of your profile. That could probably save a lot of time! I’ll pass this list on to him.
Totally agree with tip #7 and will be testing out the message you put on here… See if it works for me.
Great read, sirs!
http://www.WhatToMessageGirls.com
Anyone who wants to use online dating sites for finding partners should be committed in his or her search for love relentlessly. When coming to register with online dating, you need to ask yourself; if you are really ready for dating, just in case you have just broken up with someone; you need to know if you are really ready for dating once again. Online dating really demands for commitment. You need to use your photos on your online dating profile, using of images of animals or photos of superstars as your photos on your dating profile is not a… Read more »
As a new and only temporary member of match.com. Temporary in that I think it’s a horrible site and I will not renew, I found several problems with the site. Specifically, men in their late 40’s and 50’s looking for women significantly younger than them. Well, yes, people have a right to their preferences, but I find it amusing that a good portion of these aforementioned men would have a very difficult time getting a younger woman interested in them. Another very off- putting thing about match, and I suppose it pertains to most dating sites, are the scammers. You… Read more »
“You know, the ones who are engineers and work in Africa.”
No engineers in Africa?
“Specifically, men in their late 40′s and 50′s looking for women significantly younger than them. ”
Whilst it’s limiting, what is driving the men to younger women? Social expectations? Are those particular men sick of women their age? What would turn them off to women their own age?
One of the biggest complaints I hear about online profiles is that when you meet in person they look different. Do not put pictures that are from 10 years or 30 pounds ago. Doing this will ensure that the person you meet will not be interested in you and will most likely not respect you. Be truthful about who you are. If you need to lose weight, then go get it done before putting your picture online.
Have to agree. Years ago I ran personal ads in the newspaper classifieds, and would get more responses in a week than I do in a year on Plenty of Fish. Don’t ask me why, but women are more likely to respond to a posting on craigslist or a classified than they are to send an initial message on a dating site.
I think the key for a man to avoid being frustrated with online meeting is to have very low expectations to start.
For men I still don’t think this advise is that great. My advice to men would be to avoid online dating because it is a big waste of time for most men. But if you are going to do it than follow the following rules: 1. Never ever respond to anybody else’s profile even if you are interested. 2. Use Personal Sections like craigslist or even newspapers. Avoid interaction oriented online dating sites like OK Cupid, EHarmony, etc. You want to minimize online interaction. 3. Use online dating in a passive broadcast mode. Create a good, distinctive profile than outlines… Read more »
A very informative article. I want to stress your points #2 and #4, Don’t skimp on your profile and Don’t write a novel. Too often people add the bare minimum to their profile to “see what they can get”. Unfortunately, this says that if they don’t put in the time to complete a profile, then who’s to say they will put in the time for a relationship? Also, I have seen quite a bit of dating profiles where people write too much. I think less is better. Don’t talk about your past, your sicknesses (if you had any), or anything… Read more »
Great post, Mika- this is exactly what I was talking about in your other article.
@Elliott Gordon: “you have to come up with a way of presenting yourself in as few words as possible.”
Why?
Dating sites seldom give you a length limit (both for writing your “ad” or for messages); when they do, usually it’s around 2000 characters.
The thing about online dating, especially when you’re running a 1st message, is that you have to come up with a way of presenting yourself in as few words as possible. I think it’s good to write about 100 to 200 words in your 1st message. This of thing lamer than a one line 1st message, unless it’s a one line message that really packs a punch. All in all great online dating tips, Mikka.
Interesting article! My husband and I are sort of pioneers of what is now the internet dating scene. We met on a MUCK in September 1993, met in RL on November 5, spent 4 days together before moving in, and got married the following November 5. Everyone thought we were crazy, as very few people had even heard of the internet yet – even my family members weren’t willing to give our relationship any credibility, because the way we met made it seem unreal, too bizarre for them to wrap their technologically illiterate heads around. Nowadays, it’s commonplace to meet… Read more »
@Barbara: “we had spent hours upon HOURS online […] writing back and forth”
YES!
My best relationship ever began exactly that way, writing long mails to each other, often several times a day.
We fell in love through our writing, but we became friends at the same time.
Talking about experience, I’m going to share mine. I’m thinking especially to Archy, who wrote: “So far the most common experience I see is women get a lot of creeps, men get a lot of nothing, onus seems heavily on men to initiate contact. Do women contact men first often?” – I think there’s no real “men take initiative first” on dating sites. If your profile looks engaging to a woman, she will contact you (how could you know, otherwise?). Some may use “winks” or the like, but that sounds bland and some people dislike receiving them (it doesn’t tell… Read more »
Is this in a city? I am in a small town and not many people seem to be on the site I use in my area, which is probably quite a large reason for the lack of contact. 😛 I also did an experiment for the last year to see how many would message, and it’s been 1 so there’s definitely room for improvement and I’ll have to update it, using tips I’ve learned here. 🙂
@Archy: “Is this in a city?” Yes, I live in a 1 million people city. But I extend my search to the surroundings as well (like 20-30 miles around). Sometimes I write msgs to women living even further, if they are interesting enough. It’s all about quality. Good quality relationships are worth a trip. 🙂 If you don’t get results within your area, you better extend your search; or, you’d better think about relocating. 😉 Sometimes we just don’t fit with the area we are living in. When I lived in a small town in the country, I couldn’t find… Read more »
Ah ok, explains it well. My town here is about 20-40,000, and the majority of people my age are already happily married. I do wonder how much that will change in my 30’s with all of the divorcing that goes on here in Aus. I shall expand my search however 😀
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Crescendo. I was really hoping to see more men step up and talk about their firsthand experiences to balance out what we’ve heard from women.
mika, i am so glad to see women (like you) out there trying to help folks navigate the online dating scene. i’ve been online for the last five years on a variety of sites – match, eharmony, chemistry, plenty of fish and okcupid. i didn’t find good matches on eharmony or plenty of fish (for very different reasons), but have had a lot of success with match and okcupid. still looking for “the one,” but i believe including online dating in my adventure pack gives me more options in that direction. i want to note that, while i get a… Read more »
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Lucy. I would agree — I think many commenters have zeroed in on the “creep” part of both articles and taken that idea to the extreme, when that was only one small aspect of both pieces. I don’t think it’s as huge of a problem as it’s being made out to be; it’s just one of the *many* contributing factors for why I personally stopped using online dating sites.
My sister-in-law tried Jdate for 3 years….mixed bag of results…the person in real life is many times way different from what you see in person….she is an artsy kind of person and tended to be drawn to quirky odd guys instead of the more seemingly stable and mature guys….One guy put up a photo that was 2 decades old, where he was 100 lbs lighter! She gave him a chance but he turned out to be a psychotic maniac and we told her to drop out of Jdate permanently…obviously there was something wrong with her as there was with him!… Read more »
Very good piece, Mika, thank you. I would just add a side note to the #2. Don’t skimp on your profile: In most dating sites I know, there are two different parts: – The (long) list of pre-set questions, usually with pre-set answers (you just tick the boxes) – What I call the “ad”, where you can freely write whatever you think about yourself My experience (here in Italy, at least), is that many people (both genders) just answers to the questions list, and forget about describing themselves in their “ad”; or, they just write a brief and trivial sentence… Read more »
Much better than the last article. Bravo. My advice still stands.
Thanks for taking the time to read it, wet_suit_one. I know we have very different opinions on this subject, so I really appreciate it.
Hi Mika, thanks for good publish. I found out your shared 10 tips are very helpful to find long time love. It’s good to see you’re giving attention on such project. Thanks again and keep up sharing. 🙂
Thanks, Ben! Glad you found it helpful.
Yes, I agree, well-done, Mika!
#6 is particularly important, as I commented on the other piece. 😉
And as I also commented on the other piece, make sure the photo you put up is flattering. Also (and this is just my personal opinion but I know that other women agree with me): NO FISH in your photo. I like fishing and I like eating fish but 99% of photos of men with fish just don’t do it for me! 😉
What about cars?:P
Thanks, Morgaine!
Archy – most women DO expect that. As Mika says, that is the landscape we face, and we need to accept that and be aware of it. We also need to recognise that it is as easy to ignore someone on line as it is to not watch an advert on TV. It isn’t rejection of you, it just a lack of interest in a bit of text on a screen. That said, were a guy to go on a feminist website and suggest that “women tell me all the time that xxxx is unfair, but you need to accept… Read more »
Interesting point. I have a feeling many of the shy guys don’t approach as many, whilst the creeps scattergun like crazy so it makes it appear there are more creeps?
Shy men wouldn’t know what to do after initially approaching a woman, it’d show in their body language.
So what they do would come off to some woman as creepy.
That explains quite a bit. Pretty sad how people can be misunderstood.
Tibby, I’ll ignore the fact that you reduced my piece to something that’s “gossip-mag style” and comment on what I think is pertinent. I’m not sure which part of my piece you’re referring to when you say “were a guy to go on a feminist website and suggest that ‘women tell me all the time that xxxx is unfair, but you need to accept the harsh reality of it and rise above it’ he would be slaughtered!” I’m seeing two different parts of my piece in your comment — the creepy guy stigma and dealing with rejection. I’ll respond to… Read more »
Love this, thank-you!
On number ten it sounds like women expect online dating to be mostly creepy guys and that itself is offputting, I’d hope their are ways the dating sites can weed those guys out or direct them to a place where they can be “themselves” whilst leaving the rest of the people to engage in non creepy/sexual chatter.
Thanks also for number 8, I didn’t realize it was that easy. I always found it hard to figure out what to say in the introduction, as the rest seems to flow naturally but the first step is the biggest/scariest!
Thanks, Archy! I can really only speak for myself and from what my female friends have told me, but we have encountered so many creepy guys on online dating sites that it didn’t take long for us to really start hating the experience. Not to endorse any one dating site, but so far eHarmony seems to be the best one for weeding out those kinds of experiences. It’s expensive, but more and more of my friends now swear by it after trying other sites first. As for the introductory message, I wish I could say, yes, absolutely, it really is… Read more »
Hi there, Mika —
I’m a writer, and I blog a lot about my online dating adventures. One thing that takes me aback is when guys (and I’m sure that women do it also) fib about their age.
Though I’m a middle-aged woman, I state my age openly, and let the chips fall where they may. I’m interested that you didn’t mention that as a criterion.
Hi Elizabeth! I think it is interesting that you seem to be advising guys who have traits that women may not like to admit to them, and give the fact that you do as an example to follow. Yet as a woman you could write that you had a bad flatulence problem and *still* get dates. Men find it very hard to get dates on line. Look at the evidence that Leia gives below: “.One guy put up a photo that was 2 decades old, where he was 100 lbs lighter! She gave him a chance…”. Do you really think… Read more »
I have to admit that I don’t understand why the ratio for guys is out of balance and why guys seem to have a tougher time. Has anyone done research on the causes?
I don’t know of any research as to WHY the ratio is out of balance on so many sites, it’s hard enough to get straight numbers as to the actual gender ratios. I have to suspect that the whole business of putting up a profile on a web site is to proactive for many women’s taste. For years I’ve been told that women don’t go to clubs, etc., for the purpose of meeting men, they’re “just there to dance with their friends”. When you post a profile on a dating site, it’s harder to convince yourself that you are doing… Read more »
@Elizabeth: “I’m interested that you didn’t mention that as a criterion.” (about age) I think she did. She talked about being honest, and telling our age is part of the package. Personally, I think honesty* is just a smart move, since telling lies that would eventually be uncovered is a recipe for hard and humiliating rejection: being rejected by someone who’s pissed off by my lies cannot be nice. 😉 OTOH, this can work when I have good self-esteem, so I don’t fell the need to lie. * With “honesty” I don’t mean “telling everything about myself”: that would be… Read more »
Excellent points.
The “shame” factor would get me — it would be hard to fib about age, because I personally would be so embarrassed when I had to confess I wasn’t that age.
Elizabeth – Crescendo hit the nail on the head. I think honesty covers all of that, but being *too* honest doesn’t do you any good either. I’m not suggesting you tell people you have an odor problem, as Tibby suggests. I’m just saying don’t post a photo of yourself from 10 years ago if you don’t look like that anymore. I think not lying about your age also falls into the scope of being honest.
Would it be possible for you and/or your female friends to run a tally for a week or a month on good messages, boring messages, scatter shots, creepy guys, etc that message you? I am quite interested to see the female experience, so far my experience has been 1 female has contacted me first, started a chat and disappeared after both saying hi so it’d be a very short statistic. Maybe we need some stats too on how many men are messaged first, vs women. If you know of anything like this, I’d love to read. So far the most… Read more »
Julie, this?
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/online-dating-advice-exactly-what-to-say-in-a-first-message/
I LOVE these stats, I think they’re so fascinating and hold true for in-person meet ups too.
Oo nice, thank-you. Just realized there are more articles too ht tp://blog.okcupid.com/ with other stats. Shall read them tomorrow when my brain fires on all cylinders.
I use to believe that the men were creepy from what others girls said to me. I however have had to seriously contemplate the truthfulness of that. I know that im a great honest loving caring Christian man and I get insulted to no end trying to use these sights. I told one girl I was having troubles ever getting any responses to my messages and that it was kind of discouraging.I told here then that I thought a lot of women on here lie when they say there looking for a good honest Christian man ect. She said its… Read more »
What exactly do you mean by “creepy guys”? Do they make indecent suggestions or is there something about their personality you don’t like? I resent the suggestion that only the men who participate in online dating are inadequate or repulsive in some way. My experience of Dateline before the internet age suggested to me that many of the women who use dating agencies have hang-ups about relationships or else are so unattractive that no-one would make a pass at them. For instance, I met two women who were depressed, and a women who was so plain she looked like a… Read more »
Oh well done. In my view this advice is far better than the previous article. I am still slightly confused why anyone would write an article on on line dating which isn’t specifically aimed at men or women, given that, currently, our experiences of it are so different. For example, point number 7 is clearly aimed at women, not men. To pretend otherwise is I think disingenuous. Men and women face different scenarios, face different traditional expectations, face different meanings being ascribed to their deviating of liberating themselves from tradition, and different ways of being castigated when they do. I… Read more »
I have to agree. Online dating would seem to offer a venue in which men and women could interact on a fairly equal basis, given that putting up a profile, or sending a message requires the same effort regardless of one’s gender. But it seems like most folks bring their offline traditional gender roles with them to the ‘net.
I would agree with that as well, Tibby. It’s pretty impossible not to bring gender roles into any discussion about dating, even online dating. The first article I wrote was to try to show men what kind of experiences women are having on online dating sites and what is forming their (often erroneous) assumption that the majority of the men on these sites are creeps. It’s another case of a few bad apples spoiling the barrel, you know? Now hopefully a man will step up with an article that starts the conversation about what men are experiencing.
I do like the ease by which you term men who look for non-relationship sex in places you consider non-appropriate ‘creeps’. Do you have a term you so easily use for women who seek non-relationship sex in ways and places you, or indeed men, consider non-appropriate? Shall we agree to call such women ‘sluts’? Or shall we agree that such terminologies are unhelpful? (Are you *sure* it is the few “bad apples”? My gut feeling – and i do not know, but then, I am not writing articles about this – is that the vast majority of men on such… Read more »
I can see where you’d have that impression Tibby about the men that use the sites, but I’d say actually it is VERY common now and most men use it as an add-on or a “why not?” approach to finding someone. That’s added on top of their regular social interactions, work, bar-hopping, etc where they might meet someone. Same for women. In fact, in some cases it’s almost like a singles directory I think –where you might see someone on the site that you already know. Their online presence than confirms they are single and fills in some details for… Read more »
Why would the “socially incompetent fumble-fingered sexually frustrated creeps” not want “serious long term relationships”. It does not follow that someone who lacks the social skills needed to find a mate outside the world of online dating wants to be promiscuous. Surely it is more likely that the more self confident and experienced men would want to be promiscuous. Based on anecdotal evidence it is mainly married men who use online dating for casual sex.
Thanks for writing this. Discussions like this are interesting and helpful to a lot of honestly bewildered and intimidated people out there in the dating scene. (As a totally non-serious tease, do you realize that Points 1, 2, 4, and 7 are still “don’t”s?)
Copyleft — HA! Yes, actually, after taking a break from it and re-reading it after Lisa posted it, I realized I had don’t’s in there. Woops!!!