I was listening to the radio last week, and Mr. Deejay was talking about how his friend recently got hurt — because a girl he liked rejected him. He went on to say how difficult dating is for guys, because girls are mean.
He followed that up with, “Girls, if you’re not interested, you shouldn’t even be friends with the guy.”
Now that prompted all sorts of thoughts in my head, the loudest of which was: “Guys, you’ve gotta stop being so entitled. She doesn’t owe you anything.”
If you’ve ever felt unfairly treated, or confused by women in dating, this one is for you.
“But I Did So Much for Her. She Should at Least Give Me a Chance…”
Hollywood, sappy novels, and even Disney movies teach us that love is difficult. That the hero doesn’t stand a chance, but still tries against all odds for that one special girl. And eventually wins her heart through some incredibly romantic gesture.
Your well-meaning friends don’t help either, when they say things like: “Try harder; be persistent. Girls like persistence.”
The problem here is not romance, trying, or persistence. The problem here is the belief that guys need to do something for girls to like them. And its even more sinister cousin: that girls are something to be earned. So goes the belief: “I’ll do A, B and C for her, and (despite my fifty flaws and the hundred practical reasons it would never work) Sarah will like me.”
But the real world doesn’t work that way. Despite what a hundred dodgy advertisements will tell you — there’s no guaranteed way to make a girl love you. It’s not “do A, then B, and she will love you.”
Girls aren’t a computer game, where you can key in the cheat code, win, and do whatever you want.
They’re complicated humans with complex feelings. Just like you and me. And we would all do better at relationships, if we started treating them that way.
***
“But She’s Sending Me Mixed Signals”
Of course there are girls who purposely lead guys on, try to get free stuff from them and then act all innocent. If you’ve been manipulated before, I’m sorry bro… I feel you.
But by and large the population isn’t out to swindle you. Girls don’t wake up every day thinking how to screw you over. Most women are just as confused as you are in the whole dating process.
But they’re ten times more afraid of being hurt, and a hundred times more afraid of being seen as a slut.
A lot of times, women hurt men not because they’re bitches. They hurt you because they aren’t sure what to do; aren’t brave enough to speak the truth and risk losing you; or paradoxically — because they really don’t want to hurt you.
And then you end up hurting yourself.
***
“So, How Will I Know If She Likes Me?”
Yup, relationships are tough. Assuming that everyone is sincere, there’s still a huge communication gap: how do you know if she likes you? Why can’t she just be direct?
Let me take you back to the radio show. More than one person commented that “women lose either way.” If they act nice, guys say they’re leading them on. If they show they’re not interested, guys say they’re stuck-up bitches.
In this male-dominated world, do you realize how tough it is to be a woman?
So it’s really up to you my friend — to be a master of communication. Let me make this clear, so you stop behaving like an infatuated schoolboy:
- Her being polite to you doesn’t mean she’s interested
- Her replying your message doesn’t mean she’s interested
- Her being friendly to you doesn’t mean she’s interested
She’s interested if you hold her hand and she doesn’t take it away. If you make your intentions clear and she doesn’t reject you.
You need to be brave enough to show your intentions. And strong enough to walk away when she’s not interested. Even if she is, it doesn’t mean that you’re going to get married, have three kids and live happily ever after.
All it means is she’s giving you a chance.
Don’t screw it up.
***
The World Doesn’t Owe You Anything
I know I’ve bashed you a lot today. But it’s really not your fault.
When you were young, the biggest lie they told you was “work hard, and you will succeed.”
Yes, it was a lie, but with the best intentions. Hopefully it made you realize how important how hard work is.
But it also made you start thinking in terms of cause and effect: If I do A, I’ll get B. If I work hard, I’ll be rich. If I bring Sarah to dinner, she will like me. That type of thinking leads to unrealistic expectations.
So let me be the bad guy and tell you that your expectations (not Sarah) will break your heart; that actually, life can be hideously unfair. And that you can work your ass off — but might still be broke and lonely.
♦◊♦
I tell you, not because I want you to be disappointed, sad or depressed. I don’t want you to give up either.
But the reality is that life is hard. Dating is hard.
Yet, our parents made it happen; they made you happen. With no dating apps, YouTube tutorials or relationship articles to help them. Which is why I’m confident we’ll eventually find our way. I think I know how we can start.
Maybe if we look beyond our selfish wants, and try to empathize with women (plus give them some leeway, because you know… hormones), we’d not only save ourselves a lot of frustration, but also become better men. The type that women actually like. Because women like men who are good, not men who do things to look good.
And maybe the first step comes from not always expecting returns, but doing things out of sincerity, generosity and kindness.
Isn’t that what love really is?
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Photo: istock
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Originally published at mr-stingy.com.
So does this mean I owe them nothing as well
IGNORE THEM. It drives them bat shit crazy. Get a hobby, never answer their texts / calls – put them out of your life cold turkey for 6 months…..you just might find you don’t need them at all.
Your half right. yes it does drive alot of female’s crazy , but it’s because we know you are TRYING to Play a game and your role in the game is an arrogant jerk and I’m sure you tell all the guys oh yes she wants me And make your target look like a DUMB ass females . we know what your doing so sometimes we play along once your hooked thats when we let you go .and then the guy talks shit but we just joined your game .
Whoo ! Word up.That’s exactly right ,although I’m not the kind of female to keep calling /texting if you don’t want to answer its movin right along!!
I grew up believing that I owed women something. Now with all of these progressive ideas I’ve been learning about I’ve discovered that it just isn’t true. Thank you, feminism.
A friend’s sister had just bought a house and he invited me to her backyard BBQ / house warming. I’d known him and his family for 13 years and was extended family so I went. It was a backyard BBQ so I wore shorts that didn’t have as deep pockets as what I normally wore and decided to take my balisong (butterfly knife) since I wasn’t familiar with the neighborhood. I didn’t know anyone there except for my friend and his sister. I tried to talk with some of the women there and was quickly shut down so I decided… Read more »
John Anderson Is it against the law to carry a knif in the U.S. ? I guess it is not. So as a woman I see a protector when men see a dangerous man ( bad boy). In my country we are not allowed to carry a knife in public places . I think it must be permitted when you are out hunting or fishing ( or guns). What I try to say is that my one experience with a bad boy was that I felt protected in the beginning It was an illusion , since he could not even… Read more »
@ Iben At the time butterfly knives and switch blades were not illegal. Now they are, but you can still carry a folding knife as long as the blade is under a certain length. I’m not sure why they had an issue with a “fast” knife. One that only needed one hand to open. There probably is something to the aspect of wanting to feel safe. Ive also had a few women threaten to have their boy friends beat me up and even had a couple girlfriends expect me to do the same to some other guy. In cases like… Read more »
John Anderson I have never seen a butterfly knife until today. I had to look it up,and obviously it is seen as very dangerous in most countries . But also is legal in some countries,like Finland according to Wikipedia. In Germany : * In Germany, the balisong was outlawed when the Waffengesetz (weapons law) was tightened in April 2003 in the aftermath of the Erfurt massacre. Thus buying, possessing, lending, using, carrying, crafting, altering and trading it is illegal and is punishable by up to five years imprisonment, confiscation of the knife and a fine of up to €10,000. Using… Read more »
Honest, and brilliantly stated. I share John’s experience. When in college I hung around withe what we would call “geeks” (not my word, just the word we’ve labeled them with). No one knew that I studied Karate, was a Marine, or anything else about me because I neither look or act like “a tough guy”. At a party, one of those friends was accosted. One of the “tough guys” stepped in and a fight was about to start in that living room. I stepped between them, physically escorted the perpetrator out of the house and left him with two choices,… Read more »
Well said DJ Roukan
“…….. it does exist, and blaming women for feeling it is like blaming a cat for meowing.”
I think you have lots and lots of good points here.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I call bullshit . Your lying !
I think part of the reason some men hold onto the idea that women only want bad boys is because of a sense of entitlement about what he thought he deserved from a woman. When a woman chooses one man, it has nothing to do with another man. It’s about her. It’s not about you. But so many guys see a woman’s choices as being assaults on themselves. So much so that women get this ugly label pushed on them that they only want to be abused. This label is deeply embedded in rape and porn culture where the fantasy… Read more »
I think part of the reason some men hold onto the idea that women only want bad boys is because of a sense of entitlement about what he thought he deserved from a woman. When a woman chooses one man, it has nothing to do with another man. It’s about her. It’s not about you. But so many guys see a woman’s choices as being assaults on themselves. No its more of repeatedly seeing women go for a certain kind of guy and having women themselves tell guys that they are not what they want. Guys interpret it as an… Read more »
Danny
What makes you say “The problem with that is men are being asked to empathize with something that they aren’t given room to understand for themselves. Simply trying to make room for this understanding is seen as an attack on women”
I can not see how it is an attack on, women when men try to understand themselves .
Men that do understand a lot about themselves are fascinating and I will guess they also get respect.
(But of course I can not know anything about that.)
I can not see how it is an attack on, women when men try to understand themselves . To answer this I have to go totally off topic. I understand your confusion Iben but as a male nonfeminist that kinda leans pro MRA I can tell you from experience that men trying to understand themselves, especially for their own sake, is seen as an inherently bad thing. There are plenty of examples of men trying to make their own spaces outside of female/feminist approval that get attacked for being inherently antiwoman solely because women/feminists weren’t consulted before trying to make… Read more »
Danny
I don’t know what to say.
It sounds like you in the U.S. live on another planet…..
I feel sorry for you all.
Any man that wants to understand himself better,and need support groups, therapy or something else to achive this has my full support.
So what seems more likely. That men are held to some messed up expectations and are being denied the very thing we are being expected to provide to women or that I’m in some odd alternate reality that somehow lets me communicate with yours through a website forum?
I appreciate your support but I think its pretty clear which scenario is happening.
@ Iben It’s not just the U.S. A man who contemplated suicide wanted to start a men’s group at Simon Fraiser University (Canada) a couple years back. He got a lot of push back from feminist groups at the college. The women’s center opposed it. Now, let’s be clear. It wasn’t a man / woman thing. It was a feminist / people who are actually concerned with men and their well being thing. Many men opposed it as well and one of the main organizers for it was a woman. That scenario has been repeated many times over at different… Read more »
Speaking of other countries and the battles ..
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/29/earl-silverman-dead-suicide_n_3179850.html
@ Danny,
“If anything men must break free from the idea that the male identity revolves around success with, approval, acceptance, or approval from women.”
This is where it really needs to start Danny with us men. However, I must caution that this does not mean we should embrace MGTOW. I am dead set against MGTOW. Nor should we take the modern feminist medicine. I think we men simply must “step back” from the current mode of thinking as I can clearly see you have done.
This is a terrific comment Danny.
I don’t advocate MGTOW (I don’t think its inherently bad, I just don’t think that is the way for me). I’m not saying that men should foresake women altogether. I am saying that women can’t be the number 1 priority in a man’s life. I’m all for guys having good healthy long lasting relationships with women. I just want guys to make sure they are comfortable with themselves and understand themselves first and foremost before trying to “understand women”, “empathize with women’s experiences” and all that. Trying to tell men that women are top priority isn’t smashing the paradigm, its… Read more »
BINGO Danny! That is the solution to all of this. You either can see it or you don’t. Of course there is a lot less money to be made in implementing the solution. The gender war pays more.
MGTOW IS a step back, and away. The whole thing is better as a spectator sport ~ with a consilatory “I told you so” waiting on the other side. American culture praises the strong independent woman that is out to Eat, Pray Love or Get her Groove back – but when a guy opts out – he is a misogynist. 8?/ P.S. I encourage you to find the articles on this site that promote a single, strong, and independent male. Go look, I am betting it is less than 10 in the last year.
Danny, like I said before, if you see a woman repeatedly going for the same kind of guy, and he’s an unhealthy choice, that’s about her. That’s about what she believes she deserves or doesn’t deserve. And I will just use myself as an example with trepedition. In the past on GMP, I’ve tried to share deeper things and been attacked for it, told I just see myself as a victim or am trying to get attention in some way or that I’m just like MRAs or that men’s pain is worse than anything I’ve experienced myself and that it… Read more »
Erin, before a woman picks this guy or that guy most guys are already coming from a place that tells them they must do y, x, and z to “get the girl”. That’s where the problem lies. That’s not entitlement. The entitlement comes later but before that boys were given bad teachings on relationships. Trying to say its entitlement doesn’t address the fact that boys have been largely misled on the subject of dating, sex, and relationships. All it does is say that if boys/men would get over their entitlement everything would be fine, but it doesn’t address the fact… Read more »
Yes, Danny, I’m sure boys are told lots of things they must do or be like to get, not the girl, but to get the hot girl. Just like girls are told things they must do or be like to do the same. That still doesn’t address the entitlement women experience from men feeling they are owed things like access to women’s bodies and then becoming angry and frustrated when women practice their autonomy and say ‘no’ or when men become angry and frustrated because she chooses to be with another man over him. And I will just use this… Read more »
That still doesn’t address the entitlement women experience from men feeling they are owed things like access to women’s bodies and then becoming angry and frustrated when women practice their autonomy and say ‘no’ or when men become angry and frustrated because she chooses to be with another man over him. Actually it does. They are told that if they do some exact set of steps the hot girls will just swoon at the sight of them and will just come a calling. But we are our own people! And we don’t want to be fantasies. We want a man… Read more »
Erin, “Instead of looking at women who pick bad boys with compassion and the possibility that she chooses the men she does because she needs inner work and healing, a lot of men frame the discussion as one where she is to be further blamed and vilified for not picking him.” Most guys put an awful lot of time, effort and money into standing out above the crowd, looking good, trying to be successful and confident, because they are perfectly aware that being nice alone won’t get him picked by a woman, despite 9 out of 10 telling us they… Read more »
Flyingkal – from my perspective, wanting a nice guy and not liking a guy just because he is nice, are two different things.you guys are bothered because not all women like a man based on his niceness alone. And that isn’t fair. I am a nice woman and lots of men don’t want to date me. And yes, I do think there is a fair share of entitlement in saying that because you are nice and spend time looking good and being confident (all things women do too) , that you are owed something in return. You want to dismiss… Read more »
Erin, In my post, I was talking about compassion needing to go both ways. 1. I made it perfectly clear that most everyone knows just being kind isn’t enough to get a relationship. 2. I didn’t say anything about anyone being owed anything in relationships. (For the record. in the article, it wasn’t the guy who got rejected who was referred to as taking the girls down. It was his so-called friend the radio host.) 3. I didn’t say anything about being in abusive relationships. So I mostly wonder what you are trying to lecture me about, or what post… Read more »
” You would want those men to be given compassion wouldn’t you? Men get into and stay in abusive relationships for the same reason women do. And it is not because they truly like being abused.” I would love to see that here, heck I’d wish in general you would do just that. Women don’t just chase bad boys to be abused, same as men who are drawn to wild women are not looking to be abused. A lot of women find thoughtful loving men under rather gruff exteriors….and as I’ve been told by women I dated….few things make one… Read more »
I am not completely understanding your comment about loving to ‘see that here’ or ‘wishing in general you would do just that”. Not sure if you want to take the time to explain it but I’m missing something in the context of your comments. In your previous comment you basically said you like creating a dynamic where the woman is working harder for the relationship. Or maybe I am misunderstanding you there too. I am not looking for a relationship where a man acts like a jerk to me because he thinks I need to draw out his soft side.… Read more »
I think the success with women enjoyed by the likes of Ghengis Khan and Charles Manson are better reasons why we conclude that women are more attracted to sociopaths than they are to the good men they say they want. The smell of BS is simply too powerful to ignore
Maybe women simply gravitate towards men with power Jules?
Athirson
I wrote wrong name.
Sorry about that .
You are forgetting the power and control angle……Showing that she can. The bad boy angle works for guys……nice guys get much lower effort levels from women, maybe because A “Real Woman” “tm” can prove herself by taming that mustang…..getting the non-committal guy to commit. Proving herself superior to her peers that settled for the run of the mill mundane BF/SO/husband. Worked for me many years ago……nice guy = few dates some attention, After Let the Bad boy flag fly = more dates and lot of effort from women attempting to prove themselves.
I guess for me personally Trey, I’m not looking to be in a relationship where it’s a battle of wills or one where my partner wants to have the upper hand over me by wanting me to be the one to work harder for the relationship. I want to be with a man that wants to work beside me as my partner, not my adversary to control and dominant. I want a man who wants to work just as hard at the relationship as me.
“Because women like men who are good, not men who do things to look good.”
Women like men whom they are attracted to Aaron, period. Whether they are “good men”, “bad boys”, “look good”, “jerks”,….it does not matter.
What kind of women do men like?
The kind that are female? There is no “kind” of woman that men like; different men like different kinds of women. Liking is not the same as sexual attraction. We can like someone and not be attracted and you can be attracted and not like.
Personally, I stay as far away as I can from any woman who utters the term “male privilege.”
It’s the same Erin… As you well know, men generally go for looks first and foremost when it comes to women. I have argued here on GMP that this is a terribly flawed approach we men need to dispense. We need to become far more sophisticated in how we select our partners. As DJ likes to say, we need to start “choosing wisely.” That means evaluating. So, we cannot make looks, beauty, and youth 80%-90% of the equation. Like women, sometimes these women we men are attracted to are “good women”, “bad women”, etc…The only difference Erin is that, generally… Read more »
@ Jules Men base their decision on looks because that’s all they know at the time. That’s usually the dynamic between strangers. I don’t think men choose strictly on looks when it’s women that they know. In my early 20s, I was quite infatuated with a woman in her late 30s who was probably a size 18 or 20 if they average woman is a size 14 as I’ve heard. She wouldn’t be conventionally beautiful, but she was very intelligent. I was helping her with her masters thesis. The thing is I wasn’t initially attracted to her in a romantic… Read more »
“Men base their decision on looks because that’s all they know at the time. That’s usually the dynamic between strangers.” John, often we actually do know more at the time…..However, we simply choose to ignore it. If you meet a professional woman, even though she is a stranger, that alone should tell you she is also educated and probably intelligent. So, for me the dynamic is not going to be driven by her looks. There is a lot more to her than looks. I understand what you are saying. But, all I am saying is we need to also take… Read more »
“Men will start choosing more wisely when dating dynamics shift.” What dating dynamics are those? “Unfortunately with sexual harassment rules getting toward the ridiculous….” Are sexual harassment rules ridiculous or is what was ridiculous was how men thought it was okay to treat women in work-place environments? Seriously, we are in a political climate right now where sexual harassment is coming out of the wood-work left and right. We are hearing more and more incidents of powerful men who took advantage of their positions of power to sexually harass female subordinates under them who had to worry about their jobs… Read more »
Except, whenever I read statistics about sex, men always have more partners than women. Based on statistics from the National Center for Health Statistics, women average 4 partners and men average 7. Also, men on average tend to loose their virginity at a slightly younger age. are these statistics truly accurate? I don’t know. I do know that I don’t agree with the idea that women get more sexual experiences and get the pick of the litter. Are you suggesting it’s okay for men to have more sexual experiences and partners but wouldn’t be okay if women did? Because through… Read more »
Naturally, I definitely feel that I am entitled to a blonde half my own age with 36-24-36 measurements…
But seriously… I would like a woman roughly my own age (say, plus-minus 5 years, not a fixed rule but as a general guideline). A woman who would rather spend a day off going outside, camping or hiking than going shopping or aimlessly rearrange furniture. A woman that would also be in good enough shape to spend a day outside hiking. A woman who no occasion would enjoy to go out to dinner and dance with me, not a woman who avoids the subject and only likes dancing when I’m not around. A woman that is attracted to me as… Read more »
FlyingKal – if you guys want to believe that women just like to be abused by ‘bad boys’, why can’t i believe that most men feel entitled to blondes, have their age with hour glass figures?
Erin, why am I not surprised that you chose to answer this, but ignore my follow-up post below?
Oh please FlyingKal. You purposely made that comment to mock me and egg me on. I simply gave you exactly what you were looking for.
More of the usual, “women having expectations of men means men must be good, men having expectations of women is selfish and sexist”. Justify why women mistreat men (but then say men “feel” mistreated) and then tell men that expecting simple things like clarity and straight answers is a sense of entitlement. And strong enough to walk away when she’s not interested. Which is funny because when we do we are then told that our intentions were just to get in her pants from the get go. So men are basically left in a damned if you do damned if… Read more »
Certainly have expectations around how you deserve to be treated in a respectful way and expectations on qualities you look for. But don’t have expectations that you are owed sex or affection just because you thought doing something for a woman met you would get sex and affection in return. A lot of men only do stuff when they think they will get sex from it. Instead of doing something because they sincerely wanted to do something for the woman in question.
Hi Erin, The subject matter of this post isn’t just that “women don’t owe you sex” or “you can’t expect a magic formula that is perfectly successful with all women” its that “women don’t owe men anything”. He gives a list of actions that don’t mean she is interested but then cites body language as a way to tell if she is interested. He justifies that women send mixed signals by stating that “women have it worse” and that its the guy’s fault for not doing this or that. Most guys would like a simple straight answer if a woman… Read more »
You are clearly very bothered by the concept that women don’t owe men anything. So I would like to know what exactly do you think women owe men. The reality is that most women will have at the very least one story about how some men do and can act like we owe them. I have my fair share. And when I was younger, I believed I had to do certain things because I also believed men were owed something even at the cost of my own needs. This is a serious problem for women. We owe it to every… Read more »
You are clearly very bothered by the concept that women don’t owe men anything. So I would like to know what exactly do you think women owe men. Actually on its own I have zero problem with the concept that women don’t owe men anything but at this point I think you just prefer saying I do. What I have a problem with is combining “women don’t owe men anything” with “men owe it to women to….”. Its the combination of saying side A doesn’t owe side B anything then pulling out a laundry list of what side B owes… Read more »
Hi Danny
I like your comment about tearing the whole house down and building a new one!
I prefer an architect like Christoffer Alexander to design my house and houses in my society……..architecture based on feelings ..
But how Danny small we design the new house the way you see it?
Do you have any model or idea.
We all know it is hard to create social change,but we can not give up.
Please please please write an article about about this new house!
I think somewhere in the communication, something has broken down. I’m sorry you see me that way. I did the best I could even if it wasn’t good enough. I don’t see me adding anything here that’s going to make us come to an understanding.
And it worries me you me that way. If you think there is nothing to gain from continuing then fair enough.
The conversation ended when you and John started talking among each other about what I think and feel instead of asking me.
Its not like it was destined for greatness when you pretty much join every conversation declaring that men have a sense of entitlement to women. And it doesn’t help that you tell me that I’m bothered by the idea that women don’t owe men anything even when Im fairly sure I had already said otherwise.
okay Danny. It’s my fault you accused me of things I never said.
@ Erin
“You are clearly very bothered by the concept that women don’t owe men anything. So I would like to know what exactly do you think women owe men. ”
I didn’t really see a problem with Danny’s suggestion that women owe men honesty and clear communication. I guess in your world people don’t really cheat because no one is owed anything including honesty and respect. I could screw as many women as I want while denying it to my girlfriend’s face because I don’t owe her honesty. Wow.
No in her book that is still bad. Not because you are cheating but because you are a man that cheats. However if your girlfriend messes with other guys and denies it to your face its okay because women don’t owe you honesty.
Apparently wanting a woman to be faithful to you is entitlement.
Seriously…come on. I never said any of that. You really think that poorly of me?
I don’t think poorly of you. I think poorly of how badly you want to declare that our interpretation of this article isn’t valid or is wrong.
You don’t think poorly of me? Bullcrap. This is directly from you around what you believe to be true about me: ” No in her book that is still bad. Not because you are cheating but because you are a man that cheats. However if your girlfriend messes with other guys and denies it to your face its okay because women don’t owe you honesty. Apparently wanting a woman to be faithful to you is entitlement.” 1. You specifically claimed I think it’s okay when women cheat and deny it to their boyfriends. 2. You specifically claimed I don’t think… Read more »
You come in making declarations that as men we are entitled. You declare that we think we have a right to women’s bodies. You tell us we aren’t owed anything including things that apparently we owe women. I try to have conversations with you but you seem so interested in dealing in absolute judgments about men while condemning doing the same to women. So either women do owe some things to men (on the grounds we owe them return) or women owe men nothing at all. Which is it? I apologize for putting words in your mouth but please, what… Read more »
please take a look at how you framed your comments. “I try to have conversations with you but you….” you have framed this in such a way that you obviously believe I am the inferior party here. You and only you is the one trying here. Do you think I don’t try here too when I comment? That I’m not just typing junk out of my butt to hurt you or men? When was the last time any guy here ever saif to themselves, “I really care about women and want to understand and respect their experiences.” That never happens… Read more »
You got me John, that’s exactly what I think.
“A lot of men only do stuff when they think they will get sex from it. ”
Yes, Erin you are correct. On the flip side, women EXPECT men to also make emotional and material investment in them.
Questions: What if a woman will ONLY have sex with a man of a certain social status? Is it not implicit that she is behaving in this manner because she will get something from him?
I would hope that men and women choose to pursue relationships because of course, they have needs they want to fulfill and because they also want to give things to another person, Jules. That’s why I have relationships.
Erin, “A lot of men only do stuff when they think they will get sex from it. Instead of doing something because they sincerely wanted to do something for the woman in question.” I used to stop and help people with broken down cars by the road (pre-cellphone era), mostly women but also men if it looked like they needed it. I’ve stopped doing that because of an increasing appearance of “road pirates” around here. Point is, I’ve changed a lot of tires in pouring rain without thinking I would get anything but a possible “Thanks!” out of it, and… Read more »
I buy meals for homeless men all the time. There are a number of homeless people in the city I live in now. I talk with them, I sit down with them, I know their stories, I know their names. I remember their names, I buy them meals again. They don’t always remember me but I remember them. I don’t tell anyone I do this because that’s not the reason I do it. I’ve also helped men when I’ve seen them out with their kids and struggling a bit..just like helping them pick up dropped cheerios or toys or holding… Read more »
Great article, not too sure I know many people who do things for reasons other than sincerity or kindness, good points though and serves as a reminder for the more mature amongst us.
The problem here is not romance, trying, or persistence. The problem here is the belief that guys need to do something for girls to like them. And its even more sinister cousin: that girls are something to be earned. So goes the belief: “I’ll do A, B and C for her, and (despite my fifty flaws and the hundred practical reasons it would never work) Sarah will like me.” __________________ This is why I speak out on the dating format that declares that men must pursue, pay, pull chairs, open doors, or the manshaming that ensues when men speak out… Read more »
Dating advice: Behavior that a woman approves of is not necessarily the same behavior that attracts her sexually.
You get it Sir!
“Maybe if we look beyond our selfish wants, ”
Regardless of being a man or a woman, what part of dating (or wanting to date) is NOT selfish?
“I don’t want you to give up either.”
Because we owe women to keep throwing ourselves at it to get rejected…
No, seriously. What do you care?
There’s nothing wring with having women as friends. I have several, but I think you’re wrong with this idea of having no expectations. Having expectations is what keeps us from being abused. If I let you borrow my drill when you need it, someday if I need a hammer, I expect you to lend me yours. There’s nothing wrong with that. When I date. I expect certain things in certain time frames. They may not always be sexual things in fact if I get certain things like she asked me out and paid on our third date or she baked… Read more »
I am sure the women reading this piece are just laughing their asses off…
Again, as I have said many times….no wonder so many women think we men are clueless.
Aaron, you have a lot of work to do…
Why would women being laughing their asses off? You make us sound like we are horrible people.
Why you would have reached this conclusion baffles me… The general attitude of lots of women today is that most men are clueless. In my humble opinion, the author is equally clueless. So, I think a lot of women would find this piece laughable. However, that does not make them horrible people. But, there are also lots of women who perhaps love this piece as it is yet another one here on GMP that is admonishing men. We have women today in America enjoying power and privilege when it comes to dating and sex. But, Mr. Tang would have us… Read more »
Jules
” We have women today in America enjoying power and privilege when it comes to dating and sex. But, Mr. Tang would have us believe that women are powerless, confused, and in dire need of the empathy of men. Hmmm. I am unconvinced.”
I know little about Malaysia apart from their experience with a population of both Muslims and Christians .
Aron Tnag is born in Malaysia and still lives there.
Maybe the situation for women there is a bit different from women in America?
Powerless maybe compared to their sisters in the U.S.
Hi Iben.. Yes, I am sure it is very much so different. I would certainly think that men would probably have a lot more power and women fewer legal rights. But, you never know. Sometimes, when you look at things through Western lenses it gives us false images. Recall my point I have made on several occasions about how a lot of women here often refuse to take responsibility…..always claiming to be the victim or that life seems to always “happen” to them. I want to share this news article with you. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2016/10/19/m-victim-iowa-teacher-who-had-sex-student-says-dr-phil/92412664/ I share this because I think the… Read more »
Jules,I am surprised that men see women as powerless .
But if that is what parents , media and culture teach their sons,well they get this worldview.
Men and young boys must have this belief about women from somewhere.
In this case It looks to me that she is right way she say he was more intelligent than her,because she makes her case worse in this video.
As a teacher she must know the law,and also know WHY we have strict rules against these kind of relationships.
But she fights for her life,and people often lie when they do.
“I am surprised that men see women as powerless .”
I don’t think it is so much “men” or “women” in general who see women as powerless.
I think it’s more on a case-to-case basis. Most often, it is either like in Jules’ example a woman who refuses to take responsibility for a certain action, or as described in this article a man playing out to be an “ally” pointing the finger at men for any and all of bad behaviour by women.
I took your statement about women laughing at this piece as women laughing at men in some way. You do mention that some women will love this piece because it ‘admonishes men’. To me, you got to think women are pretty horrible people if they like articles simply because they admonish men. I can promise you that women don’t love pieces of writing because they ‘admonish men”. I think women love pieces that ask men to be more self aware about their relationships with women and how they treat women and love pieces where men are trying to be learn… Read more »
We really want respect and clear communication. This was a great read.
Clear communication requires 2 receivers as well as 2 active transmitters, it doesn’t work if 1 is doing all the talking and expects the other to listen and conform.
I hope you are doing your part.
Perfect! Men are socially programmed to buy her things, gifts and meals. A re-education for men is needed to stop feeling like we need to beg or kowtow to get attention, love or even a little sex.
no no, havent you seen the articles on this site? Men paying for dates (and such) are still good things.
The problem is society has still not progressed enough or women have not got the assertiveness yet, in either case men still end up being the initiators and pursuers. Men are especially vulnerable because basically they are the ones who are being rejected, not fun, not fair. Women should be more forthcoming with getting guys interested in them.
sound good