Dr. Vibe’s latest podcast asks: Are guys afraid of strong ladies? If so, why?
Ladies are on the move guys. How are we handling it? Are we guys afraid of strong ladies? If we are, why are we?
During this episode of The Dr. Vibe Show, Victory Unlimited, Henri Morris, TheStyleGent and Jason Francis give us the guys take while Nikki Clarke, Kenya Williams and Raegan Mathis represent the ladies.
We discuss many subjects including:
– Is it possible to have equality in a relationship?
– Are most women comfortable with traditional roles in a relationship?
– Do men have a negative perception of successful women?
Listen to the episode below:
–Photo: lululemonathletica/Flickr
Define strong women first? ??
sort like trying to define good men , it is based on what each one of us or the majority in a group thinks constitutes strong women , although I am sure due to new age political gender narrative, traditional marriage centered mother’s, housewives are considered weaker then working single women ( mother’s or otherwise ).
I dont know many people who is afraid of strong women. But depends what we mean with the word ‘ strong’ a woman who’s a body builder? a wrestler? a marine? a gangsta?, a person with strong character? other? Is a person who engage in fights, torment animals and steal money from mom’s purse, strong? If being strong, is just a excuse for bad and self centered behavior than its not fear what men (and women) feel for them, its just disgust. The world is full of strong women, they are everywhere and they have always been. But a strong… Read more »
The real reason why there’s so much contention between men and women is not because of intimidation—it’s because we put too much emphasis on “independence” and not enough emphasis on “interdependence”.
And again:
How many people here have actually listened to the podcast???
Is there a transcript? I speed read much faster than it takes for people to talk, I am busy busy these days so I prefer to read.
I would listen to it if the soundfile would play
I clicked on the play button and it works fine for me.
Sarah: What gives you the right to think that you should be pursued anyway?It just sounds like ego and privilege gone wild.
What Sarah just articulated is a mere fraction of the plight that shy men, even physically attractive ones, have to endure.
Just as men are told to man up, develop better social skills, and quit expecting life to be fair, perhaps women should likewise be told that none of them are entitled to have a man pursue them, and that if they’re not being pursued, maybe they should woman up and do the pursuing.
Why would the heck would a guy want me to pursue him? Sorry but that is BS. If a guy is not already attracted to me physically then being sexually aggressive is certainly not going to help the situation. Anyway, I know what I am, and I accept it, but it kinda sucks. I actually can relate to men who have romantic difficulties more that you know. A woman who is not beautiful and is not seen as worth pursuing has little value just as men who aren’t traditional alpha male types have little value in our f’ed up culture.… Read more »
“Why would the heck would a guy want me to pursue him? Sorry but that is BS. If a guy is not already attracted to me physically then being sexually aggressive is certainly not going to help the situation.” Because if they are shy then they very well could be attracted to you. You don’t know until you try it. This is the dilemma men face, it’s time women stopped being lazy in the dating game and did some work for a change as a group by hitting on men they like and start sharing the load of rejection and… Read more »
It’s unlikely that a guy who seems unattracted to me is just shy. If I were an attractive woman I could make that assumption, I suppose. As an average looking 46 year old woman, I have to assume men are not attracted to me. I’m not complaining, it’s just a fact. Men are very visual and that’s how it is.
Similar arguments are made for those who don’t earn enough money, etc. You’re shooting yourself in the foot however. If you are average looking then men will be attracted to you, many men are attracted to average looking women. I have seen women I thought to be extremely unattractive to me (extremely obese and zero fashion sense, no hygeine, abusive personalities, etc) have partners and I myself am single so looks aren’t everything!
“I’m not complaining, it’s just a fact. Men are very visual and that’s how it is.”
No. You dont know anything about men.
I have several times attracted to women I’m not attracted physically first. After several times talking with her and know her personality, I became attracted to her.
Weird, I sound like a woman? In my opinion men and women attraction are not so different.
Women do like handsome men as much as men like pretty women. Thats why young girls around the world go crazy for handsome celebrity.
This is the dilemma men face, it’s time women stopped being lazy in the dating game and did some work for a change as a group by hitting on men they like and start sharing the load of rejection and success
Indeed. Equal rights means equal responsibilities.
I wouldn’t have ANY success if I hit on men. What’s the point? Why hit on men if they haven’t shown any interest in me? My failure rate would be 100%. By contrast, an attractive young woman might have a success rate of 90% but she is probably so busy fending off the men hitting on her, she has no time or space to look around. I’m not defending the status quo, just thinking it won’t change unless (a) men pursue attractive women less (won’t happen) and (b) men become willing to date women who are not conventionally attractive (also… Read more »
“(a) men pursue attractive women less (won’t happen) and”
like women, men find variety of women attractive
“(b) men become willing to date women who are not conventionally attractive (also won’t happen)”
men attracted to many women who are not conventionally attractive. That’s why you found many not so attractive women have a date. And physical attraction for men can rise up after emotional connection, just like women.
So women hav absolutely no agency in this matter, none at all?
I get it, you’re scared of rejection. To be blunt: Suck it up. You don’t know how men will react to you approaching until you actually do it. Will some guys be an ass about the whole thing? YES! But that is a risk men have to take as well, and we don’t have the luxury of being the “pursued” sex.
Sorry Sarah, but this one is one-hundred percent completely on women to change. This is YOUR gender’s “privilege that needs to be checked.” Not ours.
“I’m not defending the status quo, just thinking it won’t change unless (a) men pursue attractive women less (won’t happen) and (b) men become willing to date women who are not conventionally attractive (also won’t happen)” I see plenty of conventionally unattractive women with men, in fact of my friends and people I know women are far more likely to have a partner, including “ugly” women whereas I know a heap more guys who are good looking and not who are single. Plenty of men are willing to date women of all ages, sizes, etc….I do notice there are more… Read more »
@Bayaeaguy: I am just looking or consistent arguments and behavior. Hell, if men can be expected to elevate themselves above the call of their wild nature with grace, consideration and caring for her feelings why can’t she do the same? Example: Her wild nature and society-nature/nurture- combine to ell her she should expect that men will pursue her. When that doesn’t happen she feels as if she has license to feel aggrieved, frustrations she then takes out on all men. I submit that that woman is no different than the man who expects sex doesn’t get it and feels he… Read more »
If I’m not pursued, that means men don’t like me. I’m not considered wirthwhile in their eyes. So, yeah, you have to deal with it. I realize that I have to be happy even if others write me off. That doesn’t mean I’m immune from feeling the same longing for live and affection that more attractive people feel. I’m human!
Anyway, I realize my comments are sounding rather whiney so I’ll shut up about it now.
I don’t think I have a right to be pursued, just that it would be nice to be the kind of woman that men fibd desirable. Also, I dispute the idea some men have that dating is easy for all women. It’s not.
@Sarah Radford: You discriminate all the time in your choices in men You discriminate over race , class, culture, education etc.. Which is fine. But why complain as if because you are discriminated against because of you looks it something unusual. You missed the point about my girlfriend. She is sexy and attractive. The beauty standards are fucked up, not her. And she realizes that she wasn’t born with long legs, a flat belly, long straight hair and all of the other bs some Chinese think is beautiful. In short she is comfortable with who she is which makes her… Read more »
If I said that being comfortable with oneself can make a woman beautiful, a lot of men would laugh at me.
well its true, women who are comfortable with herself, can make men laugh, can laugh at men jokes, surely are charming and attractive.
Charming and attractive maybe, but not beautiful. Beauty is a physical quality. Either you have the right proportions and symmetry in your face and body to be considered beautiful, or you don’t. A lot of it is biologically hard wired, I believe. That doesn’t mean men can’t fall for average looking women who have other good qualities.
I’m unfortunately unable to listen to the podcast…
I can’t speak for all men, but I’m not personally afraid of strong women. Of course someone (male or female) with more power than me could leverage it to intimidate me, but there is nothing intrinsic about a women having power that I find upsetting or fear-inducing.
That being said, I am talking about women with actual strength, not women who use the phrase “strong woman” in an attempt to excuse self-absorbed bitchiness. The latter type doesn’t scare, just repulses.
This is one of those “Gotcha” questions feminists have been asking for half a century. There is no correct answer for a man. But here is my opinion: Strength is defined here as -in-your-face aggression and open combative attitudes. When did that become the definition of strength? Strength means having a good character – it is not defined as carrying on and loudly disagreeing with people. We have many articles everywhere that men are now ‘strong’ in traditional feminine ways, while women are considered strong if they behave like John Wayne. What a mess we are in. It can also… Read more »
“Men are intimidated by strong women” the same way that “women prefer assholes.” It’s a cliche used to beat the other sex about the head and shoulders and blame the other sex for your own problems.
Not intimidated, exhausted.
No matter how much money she makes, or how high powered her job is, or how dominant she is… she (and yes I’m generalizing here) will expect her man to be more so.
I’m not interested in playing that game. I’m not interested in being the (sole) provider. I’m not interested in being the dominant one (all the time) I’m not interested in her being able to slip in and out of her “traditional” gender role whenever it strikes her fancy, meanwhile insisting that I remain firmly in mine.
All the women I know are strong women. Some are mom’s, some have careers, some I know from church. I’m not sure what the question was posed.
BTW, I’m definitely intimidated by strong feminist women … feel sorry for them but sure as hell not intimidated by them.
Well, of course there are some men intimidated by strong women. Men are people, and people are diverse, and there are lots of phobias out there. I’m afraid of heights. I’m intimidated by people who carry guns. I feel guilty whenever a cop car drives by. I stay far away from people I know to be psychotic. I’m squeamish about having my blood drawn. So what?
SO, a bipolar crazy man is used as a metaphor for and as proof that “men” are intimidated by” women”, WHOA. Really, let’s all feel sorry for the employed lawyer. Good Grief. Ridiculous.
Some of the strongest women AND MEN I’ve ever known have been those that didn’t “announce” their strength with words. They just simply demonstrated it by their actions. When a woman (or man) uses their strength to build relationship bridges rather than tear them down—then that’s the kind of strength that I will respect. Everything else is just sound and fury signifying nothing but an excuse to be bitter, lonely, and dysfunctional. By the way: How many people on here who’ve already commented have ACTUALLY taken the time to listen to the show??? If you haven’t listened to it yet,… Read more »
Victory Unlimited, great take!! Also, I appreciate all the discussion about this podcast. It is appreciated and not taken for granted. With all the comments on this podcast, I think that a Part Two is in order. Thoughts?
Dr. Vibe,
Of course Part Two is in order. You already know that most good show deserves a Part Two. Just like most good movies deserve a sequel.
I date a woman from Canton who has been in his country for 10 years. She is short, round and wears no make up. She dresses like a boy and has for years heard about it from her parents ,who would like her to make herself look more conventionally attractive.so she can get married. I asked her recently what the beauty standards were in China and she said they are much like they are here; tall, slim, longhair etc. .I told her that in America women who don’t meet the beauty standard often have many psychological problems. She was aghast… Read more »
Women in China are in high demand as romantic partners (b/c of the shortage of women) so maybe being beautiful is not as important. Unattractive women have a lot of disadvantages and often struggle to get relationships.
@Sarah Radford: It seems you comments are directed at me, so I will respond. While I think you relate to some men who have romantic difficulties, it is s short list based on color. You choose to accept that white culture doesn’t view you as attractive and have never even considered that men of color may view you differently. You said as much in a previous post to me. More importantly, it reveals that you don’t much concern yourself with what men of color think or feel and don’t see a reason why you should. My point is that there… Read more »
Men have told me that I’m intimidating because I’m “too smart” and too successful. It irritates me but there’s nothing I can do about it. I actually go out of my way to be nice, soft and feminine in the romantic realm. It doesn’t hurt but not sure it helps. I think being a smart professional woman (attorney), as well as rather average looking, hurt my romantic prospects. Men virtually never asked me out. I would love to be pursued by a man who thought I was something special. But it has never happened. As a result, here I am… Read more »
Sarah— my heart goes out to you…. Being smart and a lawyer is a huge asset in the game of life…. Re: Smart women who are intimidating: My BFF is a psychology professor and her first husband basically divorced her because he was intimidated by her (plus he is crazy— bipolar and a drunkard/possible druggie?)….he is a grade school math teacher and he would constantly play games just to keep her off balance… In fact, they have been divorced for almost a decade and he still pulls all kinds of manipulative games just to mentally torture her and their son….… Read more »
Thanks Leia!
@ Sarah You are a special person. I can tell by what you have written. I have a friend who was a player. He dated gorgeous women, but married someone not conventionally attractive. She asked him out and he was intrigued because a woman had never asked him out before. He’s stone in love with her and he tells me she’s the coolest person he knows. She’s a sweet lady. She even made lunch for me at times. She’s educated and moderately successful. There are guys who find nothing more sexy than kindness. BTW she’s madly in love with him… Read more »
I am concerned about the way “strong women” discourse is carried out. It’s entirely likely that women who are perceived as “strong” are mistreated by our society, and that’s worth bringing up and addressing. However, it seems like framing the argument as “men are afraid of strong women” just plays towards harmful male stereotypes. It seeks to silence potential male opposition by using the age-old taunt of “Are you scared?” Implicit in this discussion is the suggestion that “real men don’t have fears.” Even if the goal is a laudable progressive goal, it should not be acceptable to exploit the… Read more »
I was arguing with a fellow HS Alum last week at a cocktail party—we were arguing over whether a mutual acquaintance had attended his college….I said I was pretty sure L— told me she went to O—— College (in fact, she just said it in January 2013 and I remember discussing some other fellow classmates who went there, too)….. The guy I was arguing with is an SAT coach (and I think, bipolar)…and he kept insisting I was wrong…in fact, another friend that accompanied me to the party said “Oh, you better not bet against J——….he’s always right…” I could… Read more »
Strong women don’t intimidate me. Arrogance, asshole behaviour, general abusiveness intimidate me.
One way I’ve learned to deal with those intimidating (arrogant, asshole, abusive) women is to actually move physically close to them. Whether it’s one on one or in a crowd, I move directly toward them – into their space and make eye contact. Smile and act like their spaceship just landed. They may move off of your pressure and respect your calm, masculine energy. If not, I’ll say something like, “So, you kiss your mother with that mouth?” Then I walk away and don’t wait for a response. Works with men and women. Takes practice. The first few times are… Read more »
Men are annoyed with women who act like jerks. Much like women who can’t stand men who are jerks. If it makes women feel good by saying they are intimidated by them… so be it. Vaya Con Dios.
Am I intimidated by strong women? In a social life? no. I have no problem talking and be friends with powerful, intelligent, and successful women. In a work place? no. I love working for my female boss, because I know her capabilities and we have no problem interacting with each other. In a romantic relationship? Maybe yes. It is known that women prefer men who are at least equal in status and power with them. So It is hard for me to imagine that any women who are richer, more powerful and successful than me can have any interest and… Read more »
Bingo again. It’s great how I don’t even have to comment anymore. Oops, got to go and take care of the 3 month old. She’s the only girl who might intimidate me today…LOL.
John, thanks for the take. It is appreciated and not taken for granted. Do you really think that women prefer men who are at least equal in status and power with them?
When there are articles like “The End of Men”, or people think we ought to help boys and men in school *to give equal prospects to women for marriage* it’s a sign that yes, apparently most women wouldn’t marry someone who is unemployed, less rich, less powerful and less status (the combination thereof). Some con artists (sometimes music/writing artists at the same time) might be able to impress in a way that says they do have more power, because well, artists, but if they don’t make the buck soon (before their 30s maybe), they’re considered less attractive. While those who… Read more »
@ John “So It is hard for me to imagine that any women who are richer, more powerful and successful than me can have any interest and attraction for me.” I remember one guy asking another about a woman he met. She was richer and more successful than he and he wanted to know what his chances were. They other guy asked him if he had a 12 inch cock. A friend was dating a woman from his gym. He benched about 350. She let him drive one of her cars. I think it was a camaro while she drove… Read more »
I can’t listen to the episode as I’m at work, but thought I’d chip in. The problem with “strong ladies” is that they are always self proclaimed. We have people like Beyonce who will openly tell interviewers that “I’m a strong woman”. People in general that need to say things like that are annoying, egocentric and very demanding to be around. They think that by bossing people around and not compromising with anyone that it makes them strong. It’s really got nothing to do with being intimidated by strong women, it’s about staying the hell away from people who will… Read more »
Bingo. There’s really nothing more masturbatory than blaming other people not liking you on your own “strength”.
Drew, great take! Thanks!
Yeah, I was thinking this too. It’s not that being strong is a problem, it’s that being completely obnoxious is.
It’s like how some people say they like “confidence”, whereas what they’re really referring to is a specific type of loud, brash, unsubtle bravado.
There is more than one way to be confident or strong.
Pete, thanks for your response. When it comes to staying away from people who tell you they are strong, you need to consider the source. What is your take?
Women are afraid of strong men. Men are afraid of strong men. Why wouldn’t you think men would be afraid of strong women or women for that matter. It’s not even fear of a person’s strength. It’s fear of the strength disparity. When I was younger in shape and in practice, I was talking to a gorgeous young woman. She mentioned knowing taekwondo, which is the same art I took. She asked me what belt I was and noted that she was a higher belt and could “kick my butt”. I smiled and told her she probably could knowing that… Read more »
Thanks for reply. It is appreciated and not taken for granted. I like your take, ” It’s not even fear of a person’s strength. It’s fear of the strength disparity.” I have a question to ask, have you always had female bosses? How do you handle the male-female power in the workplace?
I’ve always worked in IT. I never even had a job in high school. I’ve had 4 female bosses and 3 male bosses. All the male bosses I’ve had pretty much let me do whatever I wanted. As long as they didn’t get any complaints, they left me alone. 1 of the male bosses was a non-IT person. Most of my female bosses treated me the same way. Unless I hear of a problem, we’re OK. 2 were non-IT people. The funny thing is he only boss I’ve had who insists that I work 8 hours is a female who… Read more »
Speaking for myself, whenever a woman asks me out, or pays for my meal, or walks across a crowded dance floor to ask me to dance, or drops to one knee to ask me to marry her, or takes the risks to start a relationship with me, or OMG earns more money than me, I immediately am so intimidated that I start sucking my thumbs, alternating, of course, while I am curled up in a fetal ball. Such power!? Black women have long mistakenly believed that they are stronger than black men. This is a divisive notion and is simply… Read more »
Thanks for your reply. Kudos to your brother who survived the jungles of VN. The power struggle between men and women is discussion the seems to happening a lot in our society today whether we like it or not.
@Dr Vibe:I don’t disagree that there is a power struggle. However, I have heard this nonsense from women for 50 years and it has gotten way beyond old. Judging by some of the brief responses, there are other men who feel similarly. Again, I ask why discuss views and issues that have no answer and take us nowhere positive or to some greater understanding of ourselves.. It is impossible to ascertain who is strongest and in any relationship, one may temporarily be the strongest, in a specific manner. Furthermore, men and women judge themselves by completely different standards. Which is… Read more »