The word agentic—derived from agency—has been floating around in my head after reading Hugo Schwyzer’s recent piece at Jezebel arguing against a couple of blog posts published on the websites In Mala Fide and Heartiste (full disclosure: both guys are on my blogroll).
Schwyzer decries the arguments put forth at those sites suggesting that women like assholes, bad boys, and jerks:
Never mind that the research on what heterosexual women actually want doesn’t bear this out. For years, studies have shown that women do rate kindness as a particularly attractive quality in a man. Along with humor and intelligence, generosity is a particularly valuable trait; as one study showed earlier this month, guys become more selfless (read: less assholish) when in the presence of women they find attractive.
Seems to me that everyone is right; it just depends on the starting point. Instead of fostering the trope that women like bad boys, jerks, and gangsters to the detriment of nice guys; I tend to believe that women, on average, prefer agentic men—men who act. All else being equal, women prefer men who act in a positive direction. But maybe we should put some stock in that common cultural trope attributed to women: “All the good ones are taken.” Women prefer agentic nice guys, but maybe all of them are taken.
Agentic men are straight-forward, assertive, goal-oriented, and principled. They could be perfectly friendly, emotionally available, altruistic, and presentable to parents, but in a society where assertive behavior and competition are watched with a discerning eye, men with end-games outside social norms are more willing to employ their assertiveness.
Being direct, being unafraid to ask for something, taking what you want: these are all qualities that women find attractive – even when it involves the man’s expressions of sexual desire. For a majority of women, their choice of mate is directly related to the resources that mate can provide, and what a man can provide is a function of his action. A nice guy who has access to resources brings two things to the table: he can get “stuff”, and he’s likely to share a lot of that “stuff” with his partner. An agentic bad boy has at least one Ace in his hand: he can get “stuff.” Being more self-centered, he’s more likely to keep a larger proportion for himself, but his woman indirectly benefits from a larger pie. Since women want resources, it would make sense that if given the choice, women would choose the nicest guy possible—as long as the nice guy has access to resources. The problem is that lines don’t form so neatly.
It would be instructive to drill down and look at general examples of the various groups of men. We can compartmentalize men into 5 camps in order from most desired by women to least, and I’ll provide examples of each type:
1. The Nice Guy You Know. Example: George Clooney. Agentic Nice guys. The male equivalent of the Platinum Preferred American Express. Their assertiveness pushes them into traditional alpha male territory which increases their attractiveness, and they are generally in control of most situations. Agentic nice guys smile and exude confidence because they are actually happy and confident. They are altruistic and good-natured towards women because they want to be, not because they feel a sense of shame for not providing. They are internally-driven.
2. The Dick You Know. Example: Don Draper. Pimps. Drug Dealers. Charlie Sheen. Roissy. Agentic Bad Boys. These men fall into the asshole and jerk category, but they’re real and their women know what they’re getting. Agentic bad boys are assertive and exude confidence and high status. Like the group above, these guys are usually in control of the situation. But they often work outside the confines of polite society to get what they want. For the most part, they don’t lie about what they’re doing or who they’re doing it with. In extreme cases, these men behave viciously and possibly abuse their women, but the women come back for more because they at least know what to expect from their man and many enjoy the drama.
3. The Dick You Don’t Know. Example: Tiger Woods. Opportunistic Bad Boys. These guys are the douchebags of the world. The narcissism that begets their douchebaggery oxidizes as confidence and high status helping their attractiveness to women—although situational control begins to erode at this altitude. Their drawback is that they are afraid to expose their true nature for fear that they won’t be accepted by women. Their outward displays of narcissism overshadow their internal wish to do good leading to a convoluted self-image. When the mask is removed, women become bitter because they thought they knew their Dick.
4. The Nice Guy You Don’t Know. Example: Tiger Woods if he weren’t a billionaire. George Costanza as presented on ‘Seinfeld’. Supplicating nice guys. These guys have been trademarked by some; they are the ones who have received 100 “You are such a nice guy” remarks for every peck on their rosy red cheek. Everything they do with regards to women is a reaction to what they think they should be doing and not what they actually want to do; control is out of their hands. Since they aren’t in control, their desires aren’t manifested. This particular type of guy has fleeced himself of his sexuality because he thinks that’s what he should do. They lie to themselves about what they actually want. They tell themselves they do nice things because they are nice and not because they want to move towards a sexual relationship.
Tony Clink, who offers dating advice:
It’s not because women like jerks. Women prefer polite over rude, and attentive over distracted. The problem is the way nice guys present these positive characteristics. In order to appear friendly and romantic, these ‘nice guys’ think they have to turn off their sexuality. They hide their desires in order not to offend, presenting an androgynous, asexual persona. The first impression they give is one of emasculation, weakness, and lack of desire. At best, they confuse the woman as to whether they even find her attractive. That’s what jerks offer women that nice guys don’t: they’re not afraid to be sexual.
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5. The Dick You Don’t Care to Know. Example: George Costanza if he weren’t made-for-TV. When you get this far down the list it doesn’t really matter what’s going on. My main purpose in putting this here is to at least give NGYDK some assurance that they aren’t the dregs. This last group are men who are negative, foul-spirited, and lacking in confidence. “Sour” is a good word to describe them. “Hater” is another. They are petty and don’t at least offer a smile while behaving that way. They seek to tear people down at every turn—not out of some strategy for their own upward mobility, but because they seek company.
Women don’t want bad boys if given a choice. But agentic nice guys sell out quickly, and they usually go to the highest bidders. There are also fewer of these types of guys because our society places curbs on their manufacture—in fact, it punishes agentic behavior early on. The men best poised to capitalize are the men who aren’t opposed to ruffling society’s feathers a little bit in the first place. And nice guys—or the 80% of them who finish last—fall down the ladder because they aren’t willing to compete.
Read Jonatan Bäckelie’s response to this post:
Being in Control vs. Keeping it Together
—Photo Jon Åslund/Flickr
Nice one…
I don’t think my boyfriend would fall into any of those categories. He’s sincere and kind and yet also very shy and reclusive. I’m a rather assertive woman myself and I prefer to pursue rather than to be pursued. I usually shy away from really assertive outgoing men, for some reason those qualities just aren’t that attractive. Thoughtful wallflowers on the other hand…they make my little heart go pitter-patter. 🙂
Did you ask him out first?
We met online. But yes, I made the first move to initiate correspondence.
That’s awesome! Need more women to take the lead 😀
I read this today from twitter (not my words!) and I thought it summed up some of the conversation we have had here: “Some men convince themselves that the world is against them, when the truth is they just aren’t happy with themselves. They project their insecurities onto every woman that doesn’t reciprocate interest, and make it about women only wanting thugs and assholes. If you’re a “nice guy”, you don’t really have to profess it. Just be it and women will notice.” Quotes are from TAFKAPP79 on twitter. I thought this really speaks to what is being said here,… Read more »
Jenna, I’ll ask a big favour n behalf of those men. It may not work but a small hope is better than none. Try to in a calm, cool, collected way to point that out to the nice guys. If a “nice guy” does it to you, tell him what you think. I say do it in a nice way to avoid triggering defensiveness as much as possible since that will leave him not listening most likely. I don’t think many of them purposely do it, they need to be told not every woman wants the same thing and acting… Read more »
Yeah, it is a sensitive topic, but maybe next time I’m discussing this with my girlfriends we should all brain storm a better response that is informative, but not damaging. It is a good idea, and probably a little honest will help more in the long run even if it might have a sting at first. That is so true about guys saying they “act like an asshole”. My current boyfriend told me he had to “act like an asshole” to get my attention at parties, when really all he did was talk louder and actively seek me out and… Read more »
Yep, I hold back and can be shy, sometimes guys get so caught up in what nice is meant to be that they don’t take action. What we think is an asshole move could just be assertive, it can be quite confusing especially when it’s behaviour that actual assholes do. Eg the asshole the party is assertive which can be good, but he’s also got negative behaviour so guys might see this as ALL asshole behaviour instead of just some. Teaching people the difference between aggressive and assertive would help, I know I could sure use the training as I… Read more »
After only making it halfay down the commentss section. Maybe instead of women saying they are attracted to “nice guys” or “bad boys”. They should just use assertive or passive,nice is NOT a requirement. That would allow the guys to be more of themselves while still giving the ladies what they want.
Here is the deal. “Agentic men” whether they are douchebags or are nice, ask women out. Let me reframe: Agentic men pursue women. I re-iterate, these men, pursue, ask out, and engage women. The non-agentic men get mad at agentic men, but the problem is they sit on the sidelines. They do nothing. They wait for women to pursue them. And that is where the problem lies. I have countless books written for women giving women instructions to “never pursue a man” because you will emmascualte him and ultimately both the man and women will be frustrated with the relationship.… Read more »
Nah. Your excuse has been debunked ad infinitum. Nice guys take action just as much as jerks. But nice guys get rejected. People wag their fingers at women for “encouraging assholes” because that’s so often what women do, not because all you poor lonely women only have assholes to pick from.
A couple of things I think are relevant, that I don’t see anyone mentioning above: 1) Whether or not a guy is assertive or agentic or dominant (three similar but distinguishable things…) in his interactions with other men, or with women he isn’t paired-up with, doesn’t necessarily relate much to how he is with a mate. I mean, how he is generally with a mate, not just how he is in bed. This can play out in a lot of different ways, as, for example, someone who is very considerate to everyone and you only find out when you sleep… Read more »
Grins – Gotta hand it to you man – you just spoke the truth – the dynamic does indeed exist and it is complicated and every situation is different to one degree or another and life is not fair and when all is said and done it’s up to the individuals concerned to make it work. So it all comes back to intent. If our intentions are in alignment, our results will most likely also be in alignment. This is one of the benefits of a long term relationship where a couple work through the inevitable issues instead of running… Read more »
“…taking what you want: these are all qualities that women find attractive – even when it involves the man’s expressions of sexual desire”
Does this not strike anyone else as sounding a little off?
Because I’ve seen this backfire something fierce before.
I can’t talk about this. It brings up every conflict in my life. I’m a very sexual man in an asexual relationship, trying desperately to hold on to my principals. I flirt. I skate around the edges. I tease. I do not engage because that would require me to lie. I tell you that I’m married. You choose to sleep with me or not knowing that I’m not available for more than just this moment. I choose not to sleep with you because I won’t sleep with you if I don’t like you and liking you will lead me to… Read more »
You should probably check out Dan Savage. He would agree with me that you have every right to seek out your physical needs elsewhere.
Ah Jimbo – It has nada to do with my rights and everything to do with my personal view of the world. Good sex has everything to do with feelings and feelings lead to involvement and being involved with multiple partners leads to complications. Savage would say explore polyamory. Sure, I say – as long as we decide that together……….no lad – it’s na easy when you want to be happy AND selfish at the same time. (and no they are not necessarily the same…….
The tired old saying “all the good ones are taken” is incredibly insulting, if you think about it. It is an insult to every man not currently in a relationship. After all, if he’s not “taken” that must mean there’s something wrong with him, right? What an anti-male crock that is. It is no less insulting than a man saying “bitches are always single.” And just as completely inaccurate.
I agree with the article completely. Not to deny any guy their personal experience but I never got this ‘nice guys finish last’ idea. Mostly because my definition of a nice guy is the one described in no. 1 & they are never at a loss in terms of female companionship. (In fact that has been my life’s tragedy, that whenever I meet 1, they’re taken, damn! 😉 ). In MY (& I stress this MY) experiences the other guys who typically call themselves ‘nice’ are really not all that nice. Either they have been needy approval seekers (in a… Read more »
LMAO. George Clooney is not nice. He serially dates his daughters and women of lower star rank. Plus ALL men do things to get in women’s pants. George Clooney is no exception. Just sayin.
Haha! I wasn’t talking about George Clooney, don’t know why that’s the example! I just mean the description, men who are confident & internally motivated to be nice/kind because that’s who they are (& they do exist!), as opposed to those who need/seek approval or are just being manipulative (& get angry ’cause IT DOES NOT WORK!). 😀
Ohhh. Of course you like those kind of nice guys… all women do. And yes they will be surrounded by women, but not sleeping with them. Those kind of nice guys do all women’s heavy lifting (sometimes literally) and are low maintenance. But they definitely finish last in the way guys mean last. Gregarious celebrities also attract huge entourages, but they rarely have true friends. Once again MOST men… even internally happy guys …do things to get in a woman’s pants. And most men, unless they are pushovers, get angry at women who just say they like a certain type… Read more »
My point was you don’t have to be an asshole to get laid. You can be a genuinely nice guy and get laid, but it’s not “being nice” that will get you there. Especially if being nice means acting “asexual”, which won’t get you laid for obvious reasons, ie the girl will really believe that sex is not what you want. Hence friendship 🙁 lol Getting laid does require that you have a ‘sexual presence’, confidence & an assertiveness. The guys described in number 1 have that in addition to being nice & without being assholes. That’s game 😉 being… Read more »
Absolutely. Being nice will NOT get men laid! Awesome that you both understand and admit that. But far too many other women pretend that it does (“I like nice guys”) and then get all bent out of shape that many guys are calling them on it. And as far as the definition of “nice’ you already said the opposite of “nice” are guys who don’t make waves or get angry…and that of course is a guy who is a pushover. And actually, good game requires being an asshole. 🙂 Being sexual and not nice gets men laid the most. Being… Read more »
Most guys that identify themselves as “nice” as in “you just turn me down because I’m a nice guy, nice guys finish last” usually are not that nice. They feel entitled to a shot at you simply for the overarching fact that they are “nice”. They act like by being “nice”, they’ve paid their dues and are now owed something in return. It is manipulative, and I’ve had so many friends that are guys pull this stunt on me as in “look at all the times that I was there for you, I was the nice guy, now you owe… Read more »
I see some guys like that, others I see hear the “women want nice guys” line, see the women date guys that aren’t very nice at all and wonder what is going on. Thing is we all want different things, and what people SAY they want doesn’t always apply to their life and their version of nice might be different to others. The big problem nice guys usually get is those women who don’t mind using the guys for the attention and other things, string the guy along with a bit of hope and then take it away…bitterness n resentment… Read more »
I hate to break it to you, but everything ever done by a man in the history of the world was to get into a woman’s pants. If women were as “easy” as men humans would have never left their caves.
What a dim view of men you have there, Jimbo. Talk about misandry.
If you adopted the view presented by Abraham Maslow instead, once your sexual needs were met you’d be able to pursue other motivations, such as bettering yourself, increasing your knowledge, and improving the world.
In any case, your hypothesis doesn’t account for the motivation of women. Why do these sexual gatekeepers do anything?
Who do you think cave woman wanted to hook up with? The guy who went and killed an animal to eat or the guy who kicked back in the cave doing nothing? You don’t think the first man to tame fire had his pick of the women in the group? Do you really think he figured this out just better himself? No! He did it to have access to women. Why do the sexual gatekeepers do anything? Chuck says in his article, “access to resources”. Do you think men, many of whom wake up in the morning and go to… Read more »
I figure back in the day, the women weren’t sittin around lolling about either. They were gathering, hunting small game, and so forth. But the dude in the cave lazing about might have been super fun to play around with while the other man was out hunting. My guess is it wasn’t really some kind of “marriage deal” back in the caves, but lots of different pairings and working together to survive. Maybe the chicks out hunting small game got it on with the dude hunters and the folks at the camp got it on and then they switched it… Read more »
I really wish everyone would just read Sex At Dawn already. Your view of a transactional nature of sex is quite myopic. But I’ll put it to you simply: people only need to be paid to have sex with people they wouldn’t otherwise have sex with. I can guarantee that if Julie were into me she wouldn’t need me to buy her as much as a drink – she’d likely just need to spend time with me and determine if I were her type. And I suspect if I were a particularly good match for her in bed she’d be… Read more »
whoops, gotta remember to close my tags…
Not at all!
Nope Pro athletes LOVE the sports they play yet still have agents to get them millions of dollars for playing something they have done for free all their lives. You are wrong about prehistorical transactional sex. It’s quite efficient to have a partner you really desire and also get resources from them with the sex. Sex at Dawn is a joke. I know many modern professional women who sleep with a guy and who also makes him pay for dinner so imagine resource starved women from the beginning of time. They surely would be looking for sex and food. It… Read more »
I presume, then, that The Myth of Monogamy is also a joke, as is Bonobo Handshake and The Way We Never Were and any other book that disagrees with your worldview. I also presume all of the research they’ve cited in the extensive end notes is likewise a joke. Because you, unlike the authors and the researchers they rely upon, are the true expert that you can dismiss the work with a casual comment tossed off as though its utterance made it self-evident. And exactly how do you know I am wrong about prehistoric transactional sex? What part of the… Read more »
Don’t know if those other books are a joke or not… haven’t read them, but I suspect that lumping them into the same category as S.A.D. is shoehorning. Yeah, they all might be non-monogamy books, but non-monogamy occurs as shades of grey and the specific shade of grey put forth in S.A.D. is a bunch of hooey. As for research, you give the S.A.D. authors too much credit. The authors of books oftentimes aren’t interested in science any more than prosecutors are in justice. Both simply gather facts to make a case. And this juror has more than a reasonable… Read more »
Not to mention that women are smaller, slower, and not as strong as men. They needed to find a strong and “agentic” mate to provide resources. Also these women were risking pregnancy with every sexual encounter. Pregnancy is physically tough in 2012, imagine what pre-historic women had to endure. If the guy is kicking back in the cave as I described above that’s not going to do her much good when she’s pregnant or has a child to raise post-pregnancy. It’s about providing resources. No prehistoric woman walked up to the smallest, weakest, and laziest man in the group and… Read more »
I was just in California where among other things I visited with a friend of mine who actually spent a couple of years living in the jungle. Aside from the occasional bout of food illness, my friend appears not to have died in the seven days you’ve prescribed. Strangely enough, my friend encountered plenty of people living in the jungle who also weren’t dead, but that may be because part of my friend’s job was to ensure that death didn’t visit upon the naïve Westerners dropped there. My friend’s experience convinced me that we are, if nothing else, a highly… Read more »
You used the word “survive”. I think you get it now.
I don’t get your point, I don’t accept your premises, and I think you’re wrong on the history. So we are in agreement.
I think it’s more complex than just “Well, all the agenic men are gone. Guess I’ll have to settle for an asshole.” For me, it was that I started looking for qualities that I didn’t know wouldn’t sustain a relationship. For instance, one guy I was into for a while was charming, assertive, sexy, very smart, hilarious in social situations, etc. What I found out after a year of being dewy-eyed was that his assertiveness had turned into him being extremely conceited. So, that same direct/can-get-things-done attitude that I first attracted me to him showed me that he can’t work… Read more »
This essay and many of the responses to it appear to be presenting “just so” explanations of human behavior. What evidence is there that these narratives are useful or true?
Both men and women have been known to make really bad choices with lovers Yes, men also make ridiculous choices. But there’s a difference… a woman’s submission to a man implies also submission to what he stands for. Women choose “types” of men, men that stand for something (e.g., lawyer, CEO, bad-boy, politician, poet, rebel, biker, surfer, etc). A woman from the wrong side of the tracks is more likely than a bad-boy to become a fine, moral and loyal partner (hence the common fantasy of women being “rescued”). A bad-boy is too busy asserting his type to make any… Read more »
ahem… “comprise” should be “compromise”.
No-one’s said anything about the elephant in the room. There’s a reason for this. They’ve probably not recognized it as an elephant because it has pink stripes and purple dots, and it has a crimson bow tied around it. We are coming up against the oldest questions in all of human history. If prostitution is the oldest profession, then here is perhaps the oldest question: Why has women’s virginity been so important down through the ages, across cultures and across generations? The answer? Because female sexuality, when released from its cultural confines, predisposes women to ridiculous choices in men. Why… Read more »
I don’t know many women personally who actively throw themselves at jerks. The women I *do* know have experiences more like this: Meet attractive Guy and start up a flirtation. Date Guy a few times, no huge red flags. Start falling for Guy. Get into an involved relationship with Guy. Discover Guy is an asshole over time, but want to believe otherwise to justify the romantic feelings, or believes he can change. Break up & make up, over and over again (there’s some merit to what the author says, that some women do get a rush out of such drama).… Read more »
Don’t think I’ve seen anyone comment on this yet but here goes. The extremely agitating part is when “nice guy” tells her he is an asshole, gets ignored and she finds out first hand. Or when she is upset, goes to nice guy for emotional comfort, gets it and then finds a new guy to go after. It’s about the frustration of the nice guy that wants more than a friendship but can’t get it, and the frustration of some women who know this, who will use the guy for his comfort and basically treat him as a bf without… Read more »
“I like you as a friend.”
Painful words to hear Collin.
Women and men are primates and behave accordingly. Female sexual attraction to assholes isn’t universal (as in each and every woman every time), but it is true female tendency (as in most women, most of the time). There is no such tendency in male primates. Men aren’t attracted to obvious bitchiness, but women ARE attracted to obvious assholery. “Nice will get women way more laid than bitchiness, whereas as obvious assholery will get men way more laid than being nice. Sex with alphas (assholes) is a staple of female primate sexuality. That’s just the way it is. Women denying this… Read more »
You seem to demonize men of African descent allude to the fact that men of African descent are what comes to mind when we think “dicks”, Drug dealers or Pimps? Why not these crooked suicidal all street brokers or or child molesters? Tiger Woods and Chris Brown are examples of the demise of men? Why not all these Caucasian male child actors who have done far worse. I like the mission of this blog but there is an underlying theme to reappoint the Anglo-Saxon male as an ideal man for women. There are men of other cultures that exhibit qualities… Read more »
Both men and women have been known to make really bad choices with lovers
. The thing about choices is I have the option to not settle, to be alone, to deal with the aloneness. But, there are times in the past I could not deal with the aloneness and I was very aware of settling, and it didn’t feel good. So now I am willing to be alone, put myself out there and not settle. It’s not easy out there. One has to be fluent in BS, because with us men and women we can be fluent in it.
“Both men and women have been known to make really bad choices with lovers”
I plead temporary insanity for wife #2. Fortunately #3 makes up for that mistake in spades. Life is good!
You seem to demonize men of African descent allude to the fact that men of African descent are what comes to mind when we think “dicks”, Drug dealers or Pimps? Why not these crooked suicidal all street brokers or or child molesters? Tiger Woods and Chris Brown are examples of the demise of men? Why not all these Caucasian male child actors who have done far worse. I like the mission of this blog but there is an underlying theme to reappoint the Anglo-Saxon male as an ideal man for women. There are men of other cultures that exhibit qualities… Read more »
Did you miss the part where he said Don Draper and Charlie Sheen are dicks and do terrible things to women? And how made-for-TV George Costanza, who is mentioned in the last two/most unfavorable categories is a sour bastard?
You’re reading what you want to read into this post. I didn’t mention Chris Brown btw, you did. Seems you’re falling victim to the very thing you’re arguing against. I mentioned people or characters who are widely recognized. Roissy, Don Draper, and Charlie Sheen are all white; drug dealers and pimps are not all black. If you want to play on statistics I probably overly demonized whites.
Collins, Women want what they can’t have. It drives them nuts when the assholes ignore them. When you approach them realize that you willhear No and walk off before they have the time to reject you
Wow… what a weird and horrible thing to say about women. I have never desired someone who is mean, elusive, a player, etc. A dated stereotype.
I concur with CBS. This is a stereotype of woman that is completely wrong.
@collin: Ok. Lets take this apart a piece at a time. Youve made it clear that youre a shy guy. Chuck has made it clear (with quite a few ladies here cosigning) that guys who act, get the girls. You are expecting the rules to change for you, despite being clearly told how things work. This would be perfectly cool if indeed you could prove that your methold works…but you cant, because, by your own admission, it doesnt work. It seems pretty clear to me that in order for you to succeed, youll need to do something different. What, exactly?… Read more »
Don’t be shy. Right. If I weren’t shy… I wouldn’t be shy? I understand completely that being shy doesn’t help me in any way, shape, or form; however, I don’t see how I can just stop being shy. How? Be outgoing, have swagger, be confident, be playful, tease, etc, etc, etc, yes, I understand the WHAT, I don’t understand the HOW. And, to this point, I have never heard anyone give me any bit of advice for the “how.”
“I want to go to the moon.”
“Build a spaceship!”
“Okay, thanks. How?”
see what I’m saying?
CogNitive behavioral therapy, ssris, acting classes, improv skills, dating coaches, getting friends to practice with you, practice practice practice. I hate certain things that I’m not naturally good at but I have to be good at them for my job and life. I take classes grit my teeth and practice.
that is a straight up curriculum. if you need a road map there it is.
I’m shy too, and I still feel uncomfortable talking to strangers. I hate talking in large groups of people. But I do it all the time. It’s just a matter of practice, as Julie said. It’s just making an effort to speak up. It’s saying something to the woman after you saved her purse. Improv classes help. But most of all, you need to just practice speaking up. I practice on my cats sometimes. I practice on girls a lot. Here’s a couple links that can help. http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2006/10/27/18-ways-to-improve-your-body-language/ http://conversation-skills-core.com/how-to-start-a-conversation You don’t need swagger, you don’t need to be arrogant. It… Read more »
It’s not you Collin. It is them… the women of NYC… However for you to get out of this predicament the burden IS on you. I’m not shy, but not so silly as to suggest you become “unshy”. I’m also not female so you don’t need to take my dating advice with a grain of salt. The best way for a man who is not an asshole to get women is to stack the deck. Own a small bar…, Teach a yoga class….Tutor. Put yourself in a situation where you are obviously running the show AND women will be more… Read more »
I’m an analytically-minded guy, so should I approach the whole thing from a mathematical, logical, and analysis based position? Keep track of all the messages I send on every dating site, how many times I get responses, how much time I spend, how much money I spend, how many numbers I get, how many rejections, etc, and run the numbers? Seems very clinical and not what relationships are supposed to be about. Seems like the numbers would probably just make me depressed, because the numbers have been terrible already, and from everything I’ve heard, online dating is a numbers game…… Read more »
@collin: Lol. I definitely feel where youre coming from-im an analytical and im black so you can imagine how that goes over; and ive done all the flowchart things youre speaking of right here, and to be frank they can help. But at the end of the day it comes back to my question to you: Do you intend to change who you are in order to get a different result, or not? Iow: are you willing to stop being so shy? Because if youre not, being analytical and applying this or that metric wont make one darned difference. Not.… Read more »
Being the one who is doing the asking is way better than being asked. I’d be careful what you wish for, Collin.
Julie – Notice no one has said confidence is unattractive, just that it is not a trait men generally seek out.
I disagree completely. I’d rather be the one doing the rejecting than being the one being rejected. A million times over, I’d rather that.
Having been on both ends, I’d concur. Rejecting someone made me feel uncomfortable; being repeatedly rejected (by my girlfriend no less) eroded my self-esteem.
So I’m the only one whose college experiences included having to tell an aggressive persuer, while I was completely blasted on LSD, to leave me the hell alone? Hearing “no” was much easier after that experience.
Well it’s not nice to experience rejection, or the feeling of having to reject someone, the extreme of having an aggressive partner would be downright nasty. I would say they are comparing hitting on someone n facing rejection, working up the nerve to ask someone out vs rejecting someone, not the extreme but the very common mundane stuff. If you want to go to extremes how about asking out someone who you didn’t know had a bf, and now that bf is throwing punches? I’d still say it’s easier to reject someone vs hit on someone, but both are uncomfortable… Read more »
Hey chuck, Though you went about it in a less than honorable way (running off hugo, then taking his place), i nevertheless give you props on your “hiring” by the gmp. Hopefully this assignment will be the one that sees you actually grow up. 🙂 Ok then to the topic at hand: Based on that which youve quoted about tony click, i must say that i disagree with his premise (and your cosigning of it). He is wrong to say that “nice guys” dont come across with their sexual agenda due to them “not wanting to offend”; they fail to… Read more »
To be clear, I wasn’t “hired”. The site is pretty open source.
@chuck:
Yes, i know you werent actually hired by gmp; hence the quotation marks.
Nice dodge, though; do you want to actually discuss your article now? Believe it or not i think you raise a number of good points here…
O.
PursuitAce – You’re either misreading this or letting bias cloud your judgment. Perhaps both. This is dispassionate observation, not a swaggering tale of conquest, not that there would be anything wrong with that.
Nice try alpha. The rest of the males aren’t impressed anymore. But thanks for playing player.
I think “dick” is okay. The term “slur” always seems archaic to me. The reason women become addicted to bad boys, of course, is intermittent reinforcement. Harder to break. I’d know: I’m a b*tch magnet.