Yes, Rape Victims Get Erections, Too

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About Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer has taught history and gender studies at Pasadena City College since 1993, where he developed the college's first courses on Men and Masculinity and Beauty and Body Image. He serves as co-director of the Perfectly Unperfected Project, a campaign to transform young people's attitudes around body image and fashion. Hugo lives with his wife, daughter, and six chinchillas in Los Angeles. Hugo blogs at his website

Comments

  1. Kaimakides says:

    This article is well thought-out, well-written, and well-argued. I enjoyed it very much; good work!

  2. Amen. I wish every male victim could read this and know he did nothing wrong. Well-done.

  3. typhonblue_uncensored says:

    *sigh* Good and bad.

    “Because women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are men, those rare cases that do feature female defendants tend to attract lots of media attention – particularly when the woman involved is relatively young and conventionally attractive.”

    We don’t know that. The split is 57% to 43% in favor of male teachers, and that’s, I believe, prosecutions so it is already fraught with problems that will lead to the undercounting of male victims.

    The most comprehensive *survey* of teens exploited by adults is of juveniles in an institutional setting:

    * 95% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. [From Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf)

    Until they do the same thing with community students, there is no definitive evidence either way.

    Aside from that… it was a good article.

    • Im glad you corrected the quote Typhon.
      Apart from that, this article was sympathetic towards men. Floored me. Hugo must be setting men up for something in his next piece

      • typhonblue_uncensored says:

        Too bad you won’t see it corrected in the article.

        • Lisa Hickey says:

          We have asked people to contribute their own articles if they have a POV they want highlighted, rather than asking us to change things in the comments.

  4. Hugo: women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are men, those rare cases that do feature female defendants tend to attract lots of media attention…

    ———-

    And?

    If a crime is rare, it is still a crime.

    What means ‘rare’? It is said, it’s about 85 (men) : 15 (women), and it is said also, that women as perpetrators are much more difficult to indict than men.

    It is also a fact, that if convicted, women get away with much shorter sentences than men.

    There are cases known in USA where even minor-age boys were sentenced to long jail terms for having a relationship with a minor-age girl. He was17, she was 15 in one case I remember. She would never spent even a day in jail, if she is 17 and he is 15.

    The interesting defense argument, he was seducing me, works well for a woman, but not for a man in court. We know even about women complaining about sexual harassment of boys who were only 4 and 5 year old…

    Finally it should be noticed, that a boy as a victim in case the woman gets pregnant and decides to keep the child, the father against his will is supposed to pay child support to his female rapist in future. There are already court decisions about such a situation. Rather gender-biased decisions, if you ask me.

  5. “Because women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are men”

    Um, nope.

    “those rare cases that do feature female defendants tend to attract lots of media attention”

    Um, nope.

    It is true that women get away scot-free with raping children a lot more than men do, though. Molest four kids and have a vagina: probation!

    • Like this one just over a week ago…

      Woman got boys drunk for sex

      This is merely the most recent. Similar cases have cropped up every few weeks through most of the decade since those legal changes. With one (obligatory) exception the above outcome is replicated in EVERY instance. No real punishment for the female perpetrator. In the same time frame a handful of women who abused girls fronted the courts and all went to jail.

      Having followed this history through the entire decade it’s readily apparent that female rapists of boys will be treated as though they are schoolgirls caught in a prank.

      In all seriousness I would argue that female perpetrators are actually treated with more sympathy and compassion than their victims, let alone any given male perpetrator.

      I’ve recently begun questioning the training/guidance that has been provided to institutions and organisations in our communities of the like of judiciary, media, government and so on. I’ve written in the past that in a sexual impropriety any woman involved is always a default victim. Whilst said with some cynicism it seems I was more right than I realised. I’ve begun to realise that the training/guidance to which I refer seems to have resulted in compassion and sympathy ALWAYS being directed towards any woman involved regardless of which side of the equation she inhabits.

      • This paragraph…
        “I live in Victoria in Australia. Just over ten years ago our state laws were amended to allow for the charging and conviction of female perps. Previously the definitions had been so anatomically specific that it was impossible to convict a female.”
        …should follow the link in my prior post.

        My apologies.

  6. This article really annoyed me.

    Hugo Schwyzer is one of the main promoters of the ‘myth’ that men can’t be raped by women.

    I don’t trust his words or his motives.

    And there is so little research on men being assaulted by women that we actually do not know the statistics. It is probably not as ‘rare’ as Schwyzer suggests.

    • Tom Matlack says:

      Wait QRG, you agree with him but don’t trust him so you decide to attack him personally?
      How about “yes, on this issue I agree with Hugo fully”

      • Nobody is ‘attacking’ anyone – your language is a bit OTT!

        I do not agree with Hugo that assaults by women on men are ‘rare’. And I do not agree with his focus on ‘boys’. And I do not understand why this is supposed to be busting ‘myths’ that Hugo himself promotes day in, day out.

        • Tom Matlack says:

          I don’t think anyone is trying to make a distinction between men and boys and their vulnerabilities. Of course men can be abused, both other men and by women.

          • ” I don’t think anyone is trying to make a distinction between men and boys and their vulnerabilities”

            Then why was there no mention of the fact that a male over the age of consent may say “no” to the woman he is with, yet his erect penis- a surefire sign of his arousal- negates his spoken word?
            In terms of sheer numbers, the “two adults” scenario is far more common.

            The double standard here- where a man is supposed (and properly so) to ignore his erect member and heed her word, yet he has no say should he hesitate at intercourse, being laughed at and told that women can’t rape men- is just another example of the dehumanizing of men that undergirds feminism.
            Men are “walking dildos”, according to that crazy misandrist Valerie Solanas. Today’s thoroughgoing feminists will deny any substantial agreement with the SCUM Manifesto.
            The common, dismissive, attitude held toward the possibility of women raping men places those who hold such attitude squarely in the SCUM camp- only they are less honest about it than was Solanas.

        • Tom Matlack says:

          “I don’t trust his words or his motives” is a personal attack and is not allowed under our commenting policy. If you want to have a view on the topic go for it. But if you want to attack other commenters or authors personally you will be banned.

          • I think Tom in the light of the comments aimed at me over the months which I can easily present to you, that point is ridiculous. If you wish to ban me, maybe consult Lisa Hickey and Ryan first as I am a good and reliable writer for GMP.

            I don’t trust Schwyzer’s motives in writing about men, as I think his motives are always informed by feminism which is misandrist.

            • Tom Matlack says:

              QRR I am not questioning whether you are a good and valuable contributor. I do talk to Lisa and Ryan all day every day. I am just asking you to follow the commenting policy like everyone else. The mission of GMP is to allow as wide ranging a discussion as we can to try to advance all of our understanding. I disagree with much of what gets published here but always try to read with an open mind and comment on substance not on the author.

            • Feminism is about equality of the sexes. If something written is informed by feminism, it is philanthropic, not misandrist.

            • That’s the very basic defintion. However, once you go beyond the basic definition, feminism’s theories, positions, policies, and rhetoric seldom reflect equality, but often do reflect misandry or at best a tolerance and defense of it within its ranks,

            • Its difficult to really pin feminism down to be honest, some feminists are misandric, some are fairly egalitarian, some I’d even describe as mysogenistic. While I’d agree that historically feminism has failed to take into account men’s issues I think its also a little unfair to say that any feminist perspective is de-facto misandric.

              Hope I used all the correct adjectived ;)

            • “I think its also a little unfair to say that ANY feminist perspective is de-facto misandric.”

              Plenty organizations/groups/entities that do, support, and stand for bad things also do some good and even charitable things. Feminism is an example.

          • Thank you Tom. As both a contributor and a reader, I am SO TIRED of this behavior in comment threads. It really ruins it for the rest of us, and is just unnecessary. And it seems to be a blind spot for some commenters as well, who seem unable or unwilling to take responsibility for personal attacks. Thanks for calling it like you see it. I see it that way too.

            • Hi Lori
              I haven’t attacked anyone. i disagree with your point

              best wishes
              QRG

            • RevSpinnaker says:

              There you go. You disagreed again. They consider that a personal attack. Be nice and just agree with uncontested acquiescence.

            • Henry Vandenburgh says:

              Saying “I don’t trust…” isn’t a personal attack. I used to be a therapist. It’s clear to me that the author often projects his own issues onto other men. Some of the writers here seem to have a compulsion to control others’ behavior overmuch. For me, a realized “feminism” would incorporate greater flexibility of norms and behavior. I admit to being a situation ethicist pretty much. I agree with most of the ten commandments in principle. But there are times. Feminism has gone a long way in a bad direction to move away from the sexual freedom it’s enjoyed at times. The motif here seems to be to cater to the petite bourgeois needs of professional women only. Sure, these women have a right not to be sexually harrassed at work. But we’ve now reconceived flirting, virtually anything as sexual harrassment. All in the secret service of more corporate control, I tell you.

      • Michael P says:

        Tom, I think that in light of the inconsistency in the discussion pointed out by PQ in the comment below, QRG is just expressing frustration that Hugo might be conceived of as speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

        And I can understand that frustration. When you hear someone espouse a view that you see to be untrue and offensive, until one day they speak out as if they are on your side… It sounds less like they really agree with you, and more like they are trying to change their image.

        • How about another alternative – perhaps Hugo is more complex than you give him credit for being. I find it fascinating that he has drawn such ire with this piece. I don’t agree with everything that Hugo writes, but I also don’t presume to know everything about him and his perspectives.

          • Hi Roger – I would certainly agree that Hugo’s piece has a received a lot of criticism that an identical piece by J. Random Writer would not. The extent to which this is reasonable seems a more complex question; I don’t and wouldn’t attempt to defend every disparaging comment it’s received, but I think it would be unreasonable to adopt the idea, as some seem to be leaning towards (I don’t assume that you are) that “Look, this shows that all those commentators are so blinkered they’ll attack Hugo *whatever* he writes”.

            Rather, it seems more consistent with people considering both the source as well as the content, and being particularly cynical/unimpressed with perceived hypocrisy or inconsistency. If, say, Dick Cheney were to come out with a newspaper editorial exhorting the Syrian government to respect people’s human rights, then I doubt he’d get much disagreement as such, but there’d probably be rather a lot of snark about how his past actions haven’t exactly reflected such respect. Rightly or wrongly (not that I don’t have an opinion, but it’s a separate discussion) many perceive Hugo as typically being very dismissive of men’s concerns, particularly in cases involving moral wrongdoing by women. I don’t therefore find it surprising that he’s getting a less-than-wholly-positive reception here.

            • You’re right, and one example is how many people were honestly shocked and skeptical when Dick Cheney and Ted Olson came out to support gay rights. It took them quite some time to realize Cheney and Olson were sincere, and to learn a bit more about them.

        • thanks Michael that expresses my misgivings very well!

      • RevSpinnaker says:

        Why is my previous comment still “awaiting moderation?” Seems like a moderate enough comment to me.

    • Lisa Hickey says:

      We are asking that people who have points of view different than the author write a well reasoned point of view that is how they see the world. Quiet Riot Girl, we do offer you a platform for your beliefs. If you think someone is attacking you, you should speak to me. But please don’t put down other contributors — we want this to be a place where people are respectful of others points of views.

      • RevSpinnaker says:

        Lisa Hickey: I honestly don’t see where Quiet Riot Girl was the least bit disrespectful or engaged in any personal attacks. Perhaps it was on another thread. Could you cite a specific example of her questionable and/or offensive misgivings?

      • Barf

    • Jasmine Traub says:

      The myth that men are supposed to be resiliant and do all the rescuing is in my opinion a reason that many men and boys do not report, or even admit that thay are a victim, especially at the hands of a women. They can feel emmasculated. If the myth is brought to light, I feel that the statistics would match up with what is actually happening.

  7. Hugo – I appreciate your article. Thanks for elevating this. Beyond the issue of sex/rape, there is the broader concern within our educational system that parents entrust their children to a system of adults that are supposed to understand, respect, and protect boundaries for our children. They are not only teaching them how to learn, but teaching them how to relate and socialize. If a teacher, whether female or male, is not willing to protect that boudary of appropriate behavior, how in the world do we expect the students in our schools to come away with a clear sense of what is and what is not appropriate. The judge in the case you reference got that. He acted quickly and appropriately in delivering his judgment.

  8. Tom Matlack says:

    Thanks for this Hugo. We were fighting about this case at our kitchen table last night since really I wasn’t sure what the heck to think. But I came around to exactly where you came out (after listening to women say that the boys here enjoyed “nailing their teach”). Teenage boys want sex, yes. So do girls. But more than that they want safety. And they are emotionally every bit as vulnerable as girls. And this idea that sexual pleasure forced upon the victim increases guilt is true for sure. I know about that from talking to men who were raped as boys by Catholic priests here in Boston.

    In thinking of my own sexual experiences as an adolescent, I had a very hard time even with a very attractive older girl who was sexually aggressive with me. I just couldn’t handle it. There was nothing even vaguely illegal about what the girl was doing but I was just too inexperienced and too scared to own my own sexuality. I needed a much more gentle approach to get anywhere. I was a big (6’3″) strong (225 lb) kid. But inside I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. If I could be deeply hurt by the frankly appropriate sexual advances of a girl a couple years older who actually knew what the heck she was doing I have no idea if I had been coerced into sex with a teacher.

    • Thanks for your reply, Tom, and for naming your own vulnerability — and that of all boys.

      • what about men? are men not vulnerable too or is it just boys?

        • As a man that was raped by his girlfriend, yes men are vulnerable too. I’m also glad Hugo wrote this. I don’t agree with a lot of the stuff he writes but this is a message that needs to be heard. The thing that annoys me about rape awareness campaigns is that they always paint men as the purpetrator and women as the victim. Yes I do think it should be stated that yes men can and do rape women, but I think other forms of rape should be stated and looked into also. Like male-male, female-male, and female-female. It is a rape awareness campaign afterall, so yeah these things do need to be discussed.

          In my case my ex-girlfriend (girlfriend at the time) did get pregnant after raping me and it is very damaging. Thankfully she put the baby up for adoption so I didn’t get stuck with child support.

    • Good on you Tom for coming out with that. Hope you worked it out ok.

  9. Thanks for putting this out there, Hugo – and helping readers understand the vulnerabilities of boys (which are not appreciated fully, and so much harm is done because of it!).

    And Tom, great job helping the discussion stay on track…and minus attacks.

  10. Thanks for finally posting an article that isn’t straight man bashing. You finally found something where in “rare” cases a woman is culpable for something. A lot of us were wondering if there was ever a situation where a woman could be at fault for something.

    I do find it interesting that you didn’t cross post it to your own blog. Every other of Schwyzer’s GMP articles are cross posted to his personal blog. But not this one. He must not want to damage his sterling man bashing brand outside of our community.

    Did GMP put you up to this?

    • Tom Matlack says:

      Linguist how about just keeping at that you agree with this article rather than seeing something negative even in a positive? We agree on more than you know. So let’s try to focus on that, okay?

  11. We should be rewarding good behavior, right? I appreciate the direction that GMP has been going of late, and I’m in full agreement with your “big tent” approach – having guys like Schwyzer on the one side and then binging in people like W.F.Price on the other. You’ve even had posts by Paul Elam – and he generally goes too far even for me.

    I understand this is not without risks for GMP. I know GMP articles get cross posted on bigger women’s issues sites from time to time. They would probably be less willing if it meant sending traffic to a place they might perceive as anti-feminist.

    But hey, if this place wants to be a men’s issues web site not all the conversations are going to be comfortable for women. There are some real problems hurting everyone. I don’t believe women are any happier with the destruction of marriage and the rise of “hookup culture”, than men are. And I don’t think many people are happy with the collapsing birth rate or the diminished outcomes for our children. Much needed change is coming. The young men I talk to have a different, much less idealistic, perspective on gender relations than I did.

    There was a whole generation of feminists who helped bring in a whole raft of misguided laws who are now turning 40, childless and unmarried, and beginning to question the results of the destruction of marriage. That is why we are seeing a whole bunch of hand-wringing articles about the “end of men”.

    The time is right for change and GMP should take a chance and get ahead of that curve.

    Schwyzer serves a role on GMP, voicing that brand of increasingly discredited aggressive feminism. As GMP makes itself into a safe place for men who care about these issues to voice their opinions, posters like him will face – as he has been – increasing challenges in the comments.

    • Lisa Hickey says:

      Thanks Linguist, I appreciate this your specifics around agreeing we should have a “big tent”, understanding that it does come with risks for us, and getting that we do want to talk openly and honestly about the real problems hurting everyone.

      We are ok with challenging ideas and adding different POVs to the mix. We won’t tolerate attacks on our writers, especially repeated ones.

      I appreciate the conversation around men’s issues.

  12. The Bad Man says:

    You’ve got a bad track record for promoting gender bias, but even a broken clock is sometimes right.

    “when the woman involved is relatively young and conventionally attractive. Invariably, someone will suggest that the boys involved were lucky, and that rather than being abused, they had lived out every straight teen guy’s fantasy of nailing the hot teacher.”

    If we live in a “rape culture” it is one that teaches boys that they should want sex and a culture that deliberately ignores male victims and diminishes their experiences.

    The statistics are somewhat unreliable, depending on how sexual assault is defined, perceptions and willingness to report. How many men are victims? 1 in 3, 1 in 4? How many are female perpetrators of child sexual assault? About 1 in 3? The societal perception is much different because whenever rape is discussed, males are left out as victims and only blamed as perpetrators. GMPM regularly echoes that societal bias. IMO, the numbers of male victims are significant enough that they should never be dismissed because they are less than 50% and should be included in every discussion with more than a cursory note that males are less than female.

    • typhonblue_uncensored says:

      “IMO, the numbers of male victims are significant enough that they should never be dismissed because they are less than 50% and should be included in every discussion with more than a cursory note that males are less than female.”

      But here’s the thing, bad man, we have no reasonable evidence that men are less then 50% of the victims of sexual assault and evidence that suggests they very well might be.

      • The Bad Man says:

        The problem with statistics is that public perception is orders of magnitude different which creates perception bias and cognitive dissonance. Hugo allows that perception bias to persist.

        This is where I hold academics like Hugo to a higher standard. My central point being that it is long past the point of arguing over statistics and time to de-genderize they system.

    • pillowinhell says:

      I’ve read that the prevalance of men who’ve experienced rape is one in seven. However, these stats are likely to be off, as the FBI did not include many instances of assault or rape, and almost nothing about rape perpetrated against boys and men.

      Apparently, the FBI has changed its definitions of rape, so that these crimes are tracked in a way that reflects reality. I just got back from a feminist site where there was real concern that men still wouldn’t be included in the definition of victims of rape, particularly if the perp was female. We’ve been trying to come up with a term that suitable defines the woman as perpetrator, since the terms used to describe rape are gender biased, in favor of seeing men as the rapist.

      What do you think about this?

  13. “Because women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are men, those rare cases that do feature female defendants tend to attract lots of media attention.”

    That is not factual. Female on male cases are much less likely to be reported, believed, investigated thoroughly (e.g. no rape kits), and are not equally legislated. For example, this woman has sexual intercourse with five (5) boys a total of 16 times. 16 counts of rape, essentially.

    The sentence? 4 years. Clearly, a male teacher would have been sentenced to several decades in prison, as per the sentencing guidelines. Why no mention of that?

  14. Not a bad article, albeit rather at odds with the description of a man’s rape as a “seduction” in http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2009/09/15/lots-daughters-and-ours-on-sexualization-feminism-and-the-absence-of-agency/ .

    • There’s nothing analogous between a biblical narrative about Lot and his daughters and the Schuler case. Sheesh.

      I didn’t write this piece to ingratiate myself to the “What About the Menz” gang and their MRA sistren and brethren. I wrote it because I thought the point was worth making. Happily enough, I’ll be back soon to writing the sorts of columns that leave reactionary wingnuts foaming with frothy indignation.

      I’ve never denied that boys can be victimized — indeed, this piece is consistent with my stance that men and women are more alike than different in terms of their emotional depth and vulnerability. So consider this piece the nut a blind squirrel managed to capture, and let’s move on.

      • “There’s nothing analogous between a biblical narrative about Lot and his daughters and the Schuler case. Sheesh.”

        You mean apart from the fact that both involve a woman having sex with a male without his consent? And, indeed, both involve commentators after the fact suggesting that the male in question was rather fortunate for what happened. I would hope that the analogy wouldn’t prove overly elusive merely because in the former the case the commentator was you.

        Rest of comment snipped: you might find it productive to consider the possibility that strong criticism of your writing is not exclusively or even largely driven by the critics being “reactionary wingnuts”, comforting though the thought no doubt is.

      • “I’ve never denied that boys can be victimized.”

        Yes you do. BY claiming that it seldom if ever happens.

        Your statement to that effect: “Because women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are men, those RARE CASES that do feature female defendants . . .”

        • I suppose that should have been, “Yes, you have” rather than “Yes, you do.”

        • Exactly.

        • Jasmine Traub says:

          Hugo clearly used an example of boys being abused by mentioning the Schular case, and writing about it. He may have stated that it is more rare, but he i obviously saying that it does happen and it is an issue worth pointing out.

          • Foiled again by the auto-refresh! Better start using the word processor is right.

            The writer was sure to clearly make the unsubstantiated claim that boys are seldom if ever victims.

            A good opportunity wasted by falling back on the same old themes: males are evil abusers of females, seldom if ever the reverse. And if the reverse does occur on a very rare occassion, it’s because of something that male have caused the poor woman to do.

            By the way, this is a good and sadly common example of evidence that feminism =/= equality; rather it promotes and defends misandry.

      • “Happily enough, I’ll be back soon to writing the sorts of columns that leave reactionary wingnuts foaming with frothy indignation.”

        How nice it must be to be protected under threat of banishment from any perceived “personal attacks on the writer” while still being able to launch them at readers you disagree with.

        Its almost like having your cake…and eating it too.

  15. I have to say that Hugh and Tom are two of the men who give me hope for this world and for men. Thank god for you guys – if it weren’t for people like you on this site, the incendiary, reactionary wingnuts would have absolutely no opposition as the degradation of our society and safety of both men and women continues unabated. It’s nice to know that some people are willing to acknowledge certain glaring realities, and start living in 2011 (going on 2012) and not holding up the 1950s as some gilded age of sexual norms.

  16. It is somewhat disappointing to read this article and realize that the ethical questions that better define the damage that can occur are hijacked by the narrative style .If we alter our language to accomodate our desired beliefs by projecting our personal insights as nailing the hot teacher are we addressing the issue or confining it to a preferred interpretation. Isn’t this exactly what the media does with regularity when addressing this issue. Can we sell it any softer. Does’nt our understanding really reside in the narrative. Once we refer to it as less coersive than it is aren’t we really finished with our concerns. Wow, just wow.

  17. Seems to be a bit of quibbling about the statistics. I’m going to assume this is because the details that matter are undisputed: myths about male sexuality, both psychological and physiological, make it more difficult for a) men and boys to recognize they’ve been abused and b) for society to acknowledge its (evidently still disputed) frequency.

    • Actually, the problem with the statistics comes from how they are gathered, who gathers them, and the social norms that influence people’s opinion about the frequency of female-perpetrated sexual violence. The situation for female-on-male abuse is pretty bad because there is so little research, but it is even worse for female-on-female abuse as literally only a handful of people research it.

      • Hi Jacob,

        Agreed! I think there’s a cart before the horse problem involved though. One of the difficulties in a) obtaining credible statistics but also b) getting people to take real cases seriously is exactly the “he got hard so he must have wanted it, he ejaculated so he must have participated” myths Hugo says (correctly) that we need to overcome.

        figleaf

  18. Tom Matlack says:October 30, 2011 at 8:35 am
    Thanks for this Hugo. We were fighting about this case at our kitchen table last night since really I wasn’t sure what the heck to think. But I came around to exactly where you came out (after listening to women say that the boys here enjoyed “nailing their teach”). Teenage boys want sex, yes. So do girls. But more than that they want safety. And they are emotionally every bit as vulnerable as girls.

    Or maybe even more vulnerable than girls given how the brain matures. My understanding is that on average, girls brains develop faster than boys. That the average girl is two years more mature than the average boy. Society clearly sees the emotion exploitation if a man sleeps with a 12yo girl, but not when a woman of the same age sleeps with a 14yo boy. Yet, the brain of the average 14yo boy has the maturity of a 12yo girl

    Girls’ Brains More Advanced at Puberty

    To further illustrate how a teen’s changing brain chemistry often molds their behavior, Dr. Brizendine invited ABC’s 20/20 to listen as she spoke to students at the Marin School outside San Francisco. Girls, she explained, mature faster than boys, and girls’ brains are as much as two years ahead during puberty. In fact, neuro-imaging shows that, early on, the typical teen girl has a stronger connection between the areas of the brain that control impulse — the amygdala — and judgment — the prefrontal cortex.
    It may not be until late adolescence or their early 20s that boys’ brains catch up to their girl peers.

  19. Posted this on Hugo’s site, but thought it worth adding in since it focuses on the content of the article:

    Having treated both boys and girls and women (few men) who were survivors of sexual abuse and rape, I can tell you the “arousal/orgasm” factor is absolutely the most difficult piece to address and work through. Sadly, even some of my colleagues will get sidetracked by that factor and, depending on the age of the survivor, wonder if there was an element of consent involved.
    One aspect of my work I’ve found fascinating are the number of young women I’ve worked with who told me that it was easier to work through it with me than female therapists they’ve had.
    Whether that is due to my presence and therapy style or more a function of needing to work through with a man, I don’t know. I haven’t seen much research on success rates for female vs male therapists, but I think that may be due to male therapists being cautious going into that arena.

  20. Jasmine Traub says:

    I showed this to my grandfather, who’s immediate reaction was, “Well, what about the rest of the football team, isn’t this teacher not abiding equality?” He meant this as a joke. Then he actually read the whole thing and asked me what I thought the purpose of it was. I said “To get people thinking about this issue.” he responded with another question, “Do you really think society feels this way about it?” I said “grampa, the first thing you said about it was a joke. This is meant to get people to take the problem a little more seriously. He stopped asking me questions about it.
    I feel that that the myth that young boys should gladly accept the advances of an older women can cause the young boy to do exactly waht is expected of him, and that this abuse can be just as detrimental to a male as it would be to a female, inducing the same human feelings of guilt and shame upon the victim.

  21. Marzipan Souffle says:

    A sexual predator starts w/ easy targets, all sexes,all ages.Happens in every bar in the world, unreported.Sexual predators are well on their way to a lifetime as psychopaths capable of anything. Psychopaths cannot be reformed. Their goal is to destroy people,break down identity, enslave the victim. Some victims get away. Some don’t. Listen to divorce cases.

    Sex is not ownership.

    • martrevion says:

      At the age of 7 I too was an easy target by a perp that was my neighbor. While I was outside alone (family in the house) on my bike, he approached me and asked me to go to the store with him as he made false promises to coerce a broke, lonely lil’ boy with no real father figure in the household at the time. I bought the lie and went only to be deceived. He detoured from the store’s driveway entrance and proceeded to the back school yard playground. Slid up and down the sliding board is where he started and ended. My last slide down turned to a nightmare for me. After it was all over he left his evidence on the robe I was wearing. When I arrived home, an older sibling asked,”Freddy, What’s that on your housecoat. Because I was too afraid to tell the truth, She repeated the question and just covered her face and wept hysterically. Perps aren’t ever aware of the mental anguish caused by their forceful actions upon others and I understand now why jeffrey dahmer ended up doing what he did because he never had a chance to get the help he needed to deal with what happened to him as a child. When I saw the movie A Time To Kill” I was grateful that I never told my mother before she died about the rape and I was angry with dad because he wasn’t in my life at the time so I guess you can imagine where that left me. In the Navy, while on active duty I tried to get help with alcoholism and was denied. If anyone asked me then why was I drinking in the first place, there was no way I could have known at that time that drinking was just the beginning of me searching out Coping Mechanisms. I also Now understand what KD Lang was singing about” the “Constant fucking craving”

  22. I see that now TGMP is again deleting comments critical of Schwyzer’s change in position.

  23. Cases like this are not as rare as Schwyzer and others would have us believe. Anecdotally speaking, i know of at least three guys I went to high school with who had had sex with teachers. One of them with almost a different teacher every year until his senior year.

    And this was in a small town of just under 4000. One wonders what a big city school would be like where the rumor mill is less agile

    • The purpose of the article was to state that cases of woman on boy rape seldom if ever happens.

      • martrevion says:

        I guess I have tuned in to the wrong station because I can’t say personally that i understand or have experienced that. I do think of those guys being some lucky bastards because they’re not forced to deal with intrusive thoughts of constantly craving COCK 28/7 in a given day. AT LEAST the gender Order was proper even though the act/incident was improper. For the guys who’s been ramrodded against their will (esp. childhood years) by another male, sucks really bad. Honestly we’re the one’s who have been robbed of divine natural ATTRACTIONS a man should have towards a woman. I can recall an encounter once with a female that put me in a position where as I had to think about an opposite sex partner who I thought I enjoyed being with just to get an erection to sleep with her. That’s not normal. I do wonder now if all the guys who wer molested by women classify themselves as being Bi/straight/gay???

      • martrevion says:

        It’s really hard for me to grasp that it would not be consensual especially between a man and a woman if neither of them has never been victimized by the same sex. If the woman is butch and develope an overwhelming craving for some dick then I could probably see a glimpse of probability. I am curious to know do these guys who claim to have been raped/molested by women end up solely reversing the role or just holla a whatever?

        • I am truly sorry for what you’ve been through. I hope that you have been able to find both sobriety and treatment to help you through this. There really is safety and peace away from your nightmare if you find a good therapist to work with.
          My best.

          • martrevion says:

            Some of the most effective treatment that has brought me true success to help me through it all was, simply, Taking the risk of talking it out and often times in the company of complete strangers. The benefits Thus Far has been nothing but beneficial. What’s really strange is that I was more comfortable with the strangers than my psychiatrists, counselors, psychologists, and countless others,and including a prison inmate.

  24. Excellent article, especially the shame factor over assault-arousal response. I posted the following on Hugo’s blog:
    Having treated both boys and girls and women (few men) who were survivors of sexual abuse and rape, I can tell you the “arousal/orgasm” factor is absolutely the most difficult piece to address and work through. Sadly, even some of my colleagues will get sidetracked by that factor and, depending on the age of the survivor, wonder if there was an element of consent involved.
    One aspect of my work I’ve found fascinating are the number of young women I’ve worked with who told me that it was easier to work through it with me than female therapists they’ve had.
    Whether that is due to my presence and therapy style or more a function of needing to work through it with a man, I don’t know. I haven’t seen much research on success rates for female vs male therapists, but I think that may be due to male therapists being cautious going into that arena.

    • Men being cautious about going in that direction Should do so, especially in today’s society. Why would a woman want to talk a man about women issues without a hidden agenda except to get her appetite fed. To me the very thought is sickening and maybe that was because I was raped by a man. Til this day, at my age, I do not feel comfortable with a woman checking me for prostrate cancer maybe fearful she’ll attempt to take advantage of me and be dissatisfied miserably. It has been very helpful for me to talk to another male because a prisoner once taught me how powerful that was to address your issues with one of the same(ethnicity has no place here) . Sad reality is that there isn’t much therapy available in the civilian except “talking it out(prayerfully) with someone else you may/may not feel comfortable with. I’ve found the latter very effective in addressing it and gaining some victory.

    • martrevion says:

      By the way, for me at the age of seven, DEFINITELY none consensual. I’ll admit myself Now, as I look back, Had one of my male teachers( whom I secretly thought were very handsome men and Well built) had approached me to engage in sexual activities that were not harmful to me or violent in nature, with them, HELL2THAFUCKINGYYEEEAAAAHHH! Got Butter!

  25. I think the article might be a bit of a white wash, the modern research is showing that sex criminality is not gendered and most male rapists were sexually abused by women in their childhood, which like the truth about domestic violence, its very threatening to feminism in its current ideological form.

    • Most male rapists were sexually abused by women in their childhood?? Say what?

      • “Most male rapists were sexually abused by women in their childhood?? Say what?”

        Just that. There are a number of studies that show most male rapists have been sexually abused by a woman as a child.

        • martrevion says:

          A question to ponder. Could it be possible that the woman that supposedly raped a boy was trying to do him a favor in effort to convert him back to normality due to prior damage possibly already had been done by a male figure?

  26. Great article. This area is really murky to me, even as a feminist with relatively well-established beliefs around sex and sexuality. I guess that, raised within the society I was, I have a very hard time picturing what the situation might have been like between Schuler and the boys she abused…….

    • This area is really murky for men and boys, too, Juliana. We males are never supposed to not want sex. Yet we do end up on the business end of creepy situations, and some of those do involve women as the perpetrators. And just as with women victims of rape, the rape apologists inevitably show up and claim that the boy or man must have enjoyed it, so it can’t be rape.

      I also wish it were as rare as Hugo states. It is not.

      One of the better compendiums of the scientific literature on the subject can be found at
      http://female-offenders.com/bibliography.html

      If you have been a male victims, I suggest you visit http://www.1in6.org or look at the materials Dr. Jim Hooper (affiliated with Harvard Medical School) has posted on his website.

      Also, I must respectfully disagree with Dr. Schwyzer’s comment that most of these cases hit the press. There are websites with the photos and factual reports concerning hundreds if not thousands of female perpetrators of sex crimes. Very few of them make the press beyond the local market.

      Consider, for example, the case of Julie Green, a 38 year old Astoria, Oregon woman who plead guilty in March, 2011 to getting a 14 year old boy drunk and then raping him. According to family members the 14 year old boy was emotionally devastated. She was sentenced to 30 days in jail. To my knowledge, the mainstream press accounts did not extend beyond the Portland, Oregon area.

      Another commenter noted there is evidence that male victims of sexual abuse by female are more likely to become rapists. If readers are interested in the scientfic literature in this area, I would recommend the work of Dr. David Lisek, an expert on both male victims of sexual abuse and male rapists. He has a number of compelling presentations available online.

    • One other note.

      I find it fascinating how quickly apologists in these cases conclude that 12-15 year old boys have sufficient emotional maturity to consent to and handle a sexual relationship with an adult woman.

      In my experience, boys of that age are usually less mature than girls of that age, and only crackpots (and the Legislatures of a couple of benighted states) would claim that a 14 year old girl is mature enough to give consent to sexual relations.

      • Me, at the age of fifteen(as I look back) those thoughts of being with girls that way didn’t excite me at all. On the same note(especially after I was raped by a man), could not understand why the ones I di encounter they all wanted me in that way but the Feelings(sadly) were not mutual. We got along so well as friends. I couldn’t understand why at the age of 15 or so, I all of a sudden developed a sexual attraction to older men. OOH maybe because of the bastard that raped me when I was seven(that son of abitch).

  27. wellokaythen says:

    What that female teacher did was coercive and out of bounds because of the power imbalance, not so much the age discrepancy.

    Those boys were students at her school, which means she was in a power relationship over them, which by itself is inappropriate, no matter what their ages. Even if they didn’t feel coerced, even if they were old enough to consent, there is an inherent power imbalance there. It’s the same as having sex with someone under your command as a military officer — even if there could be consent, there really couldn’t be full consent.

    Bear in mind, though, that those boys were technically above the age of consent. What she did was not rape like in the Letourneau case. She was on trial because she violated an Ohio state law that made it illegal for teachers to have sex with students even if the students were over the age of consent. I wouldn’t say those young men were victims and only victims. The judge referred to “children,” but that’s not quite what they were either.

    You could have a case where someone did something illegal and unethical and still not have clearcut victims.

    Interestingly enough, she did not defend herself with the argument that those boys were old enough to consent, and she didn’t defend herself with the idea that the sex was consensual. Is that because that would be too controversial, or because it would have made no legal difference?

    • Wellok, if I heard the press reports correctly, at least some of the males were plied with alcohol beforehand. If we can agree that intoxicated college women cannot legally give consent to sex, I would hope we could agree that intoxicated high school males cannot legally give consent either.

      Rape is rape.

      • wellokaythen says:

        I didn’t know about the use of alcohol. If someone is too intoxicated to consent, then there is no consent, and it’s rape. I agree, it should be the same whether the victim is male or female. It is possible for a man with an erection to be raped, if the sex is coerced and not consensual. (An erection can be an involuntary response, not a clear sign of consent. And you can be deeply drunk and still get an erection. Well, some people can….) I was trying to say their age alone was not enough to show that they were rape victims, or at least not only rape victims. Giving alcohol to people who cannot legally consume it adds another level of criminality to the whole thing. They were old enough to consent to sex with a woman her age but not old enough to consume alcohol, at least under American law.

        • Henry Vandenburgh says:

          We’ve had cases on our campus of both partners in a student couple giving consent while drunk, then the woman turning in the man the next day. This should be unenforceable.

          • I’d just like to see the actual video footage on that one. With two people smoking crack and consenting, should that be unenforceable too? That one I’say, Hell ya. People drinking together, ya never know Unless you were there. As much as I hate to give credit to the level of honesty when it comes to a crack smoker, they tell you right UP Front what they expect Before you drank their beer or you watch them smoke. Sad reality is that neither one knows why they’re getting high or drunk in the first place.

    • Is that because that would be too controversial, or because it would have made no legal difference?

      No, it is probably because she plead not guilty by reason of insanity. If she tried to claim that the boys were of the age of consent, she would essentially admit that she knew what she was doing when she did, and could therefore be held culpable. Luckily, the judge bought Schuler’s nonsense “Zoloft made me do it” argument (although I am sure Schwyzer does).

  28. She was too impatient. She couldn’t wait a year or two until they graduated and everything would have been totally legal?

  29. Come on Ohio…. FOUR YEARS IN PRISON ????
    By all means, fire this teacher. Ensure she never teaches again. Counsel the boys on norms of sexual behavior and appropriate boundaries. However, I can’t believe that these cases cause any long-lasting psychological damage to the boys concerned. What a waste of time and resources… somewhere out there, there are some real criminals committing actual crimes.

    • GMP this is despicable. You allow this comment to stand while silencing the voices of real victims.

      Shame on you.

    • Pat, you are a disgusting apologist for female privilege. Seek therapy and stop damaging the world with your warped views.

      (CO) Brenda Lynette Harding, 30,
      babysitter – Gets 90 days jail for sex with boy, 15, who committed suicide,

  30. At long last, Schwyzer writes an article where women are actually held responsible for their actions.

    With any luck this will continue.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] got a rare Sunday post up at Good Men Project this week: Yes, Rape Victims Get Erections, Too. I look at the myths we have about boys who are sexually abused by older women. [...]

  2. [...] in point: In his recent article, Hugo Schwyzer claimed, “Because women are much less likely to sexually abuse teens than are [...]

  3. [...] member of success. While underage boys can be victims of rape by women (a indicate we made here), their somewhat comparison manly counterparts are culturally improved versed to enter into [...]

  4. Sources…

    [...]here are some links to sites that we link to because we think they are worth visiting[...]…

  5. [...] such as Deborah’s, a sexual encounter with an adult might genuinely “feel really good.” As I’ve written before, we make a huge mistake by assuming that the victims of sexual abuse never feel [...]

  6. [...] know that female teachers (and other authority figures) can and do rape boys. The fact that they do it with a good deal less frequency than their male counterparts rape [...]

  7. [...] For more reading, check out Yes, Rape Victims Get Erections, Too [...]

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