No sooner did I put down Hanna Rosin’s insulting piece in Slate about stay-at-home dads (read our response to her story here), than a friend of mine told me I’d better go get a copy of this morning’s Wall Street Journal—and I’d better sit down before reading it. I was also advised to keep firearms, blunt objects, and breakables out of arm’s length as I dug in.
The cover story “Where Have the Good Men Gone?” is adapted from the forthcoming book Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men Into Boys. In it, author Kay S. Hymowitz laments the fact that men today refuse to grow up—and that’s making it difficult for women to find a decent mate.
“Women in their 20s are more likely than men to be in grad school and making strides in the workplace,” she writes. “In a number of cities, they are even outearning their brothers and boyfriends. Still, for these women, one key question won’t go away: Where have the good men gone? Their male peers often come across as aging frat boys, maladroit geeks, or grubby slackers.”
It’s a prisoner’s dilemma of sorts. What are we to do? According to Hymowitz and the WSJ, a key issue of gender in the 21st century is men’s loserdom—and the desperate situation in which they put single women.
Hymowitz seems to have thrown in the towel on guys altogether. Here, the piece ends with this uplifting bit of analysis:
“Relatively affluent, free of family responsibilities, and entertained by an array of media devoted to his every pleasure, the single young man can live in pig heaven—and often does. Women put up with him for a while, but then in fear and disgust either give up on any idea of a husband and kids or just go to a sperm bank and get the DNA without the troublesome man. But these rational choices on the part of women only serve to legitimize men’s attachment to the sand box. Why should they grow up? No one needs them anyway. There’s nothing they have to do.
They might as well just have another beer.”
For the men who are part of the Good Men Project—guys fighting wars in foreign lands, working diligently to be good dads, recovering from economic hardship, striving to be loving spouses, searching their souls trying to figure out what it means to be a good man—the piece is one more example of mainstream media portraying us in an egregiously negative, quasi-sexist light.
Women are often described in the same universal, equally pernicious stereotypes. But combating the media’s outmoded, misogynistic logic doesn’t mean putting up with dreck like this. Why the free pass on a female writer’s conclusion that the opposite sex is a bunch of “aging frat boys, maladroit geeks, or grubby slackers” who “might as well just have another beer”?
None of this is to say that men can’t always be working harder to be better husbands, fathers, workers, and men. But women need to be there for us, just as we need to be there for them. So let’s work on this together—and leave out the stereotyping.
♦◊♦
See more:
“Growing up” or “Manning up” is just the latest attempt to shame men into behaving the way some women want. I think it has the most effect upon boys and young men as the “reward” for being good is the possibility of sex. What truly Good Men can do is counter this BS with assertive reinforcement of what good men are to those who are vulnerable to this form of harassment.
Women don’t define whether I’m a good man; I measure myself against other men I deem to be good men.
“Women don’t define whether I’m a good man; I measure myself against other men I deem to be good men.”
Well said.
If feminism were truly about equality, the gender education gap would be on their agenda. But, since it’s boys and men who are being discriminated against and suffering, they don’t care. In fact, they are privately celebrating as if they won the world series.
In 2011, young men have insanely higher expectations of women than they did in the sixties and nowhere near the obligations. Strange how the young men aren’t complaining as loudly about all of this no-strings attached sex, women’s sexual expression as performance art, insane demands on women’s appearance and the ability to get this all done while playing Halo and eating T-Bell. Progress isn’t pretty.
The Wall Street Journal is the least of the offenders. They did publish the Hymowitz article, and received about 1500 readers comments, mostly negative, that were readily available on their site. The worst offenders are in the mainstream media, publications like the NY Times, the Washington Post and most of the liberal cable news and academia. I have a form letter I send to the Times and the Post every fathers day exhorting the feminists dominant at those publications to let the men off of their hands and knees one day per year and allow them to say a good… Read more »
If the article author would be so kind as to provide a list of pre-approved jobs, hobbies, and beverages for men, it would be most appreciated. I could really use a Do List and a Don’t List so I can more easily transform my life to meet her exacting standards. Such a simple prescribed list would we perfectly consistent with the _Cosmo_ level of analysis expressed in the article. I see I have been trying to develop my own sense of the appropriate life to live, but in doing so I have failed to conform to what an entire gender… Read more »
Me again. On second thought, I can see maybe I’m being disrespectful and unrealistic. Of course it’s impossible to fit all the prerequisites onto two short lists, and these judgments need to happen on a case-by-case basis anyway. Forget the lists. Instead, I’ll make a different request: could I get the address of the Central Committee in charge of these matters? I would like to send in my personal information, fill out the requisite forms, and get a ruling about my “goodness” level. (I assume there is a quantitative rating of some kind?) I hope the Committee could also recommend… Read more »
I fail to see how that isn’t a description of what you are doing.
Amen.
AMEN AMEN AMEN!
Awareness, among us all, is always a good thing.
Why should I be a “good man” (as defined by this article) when there is a distinct lack of “good women”? But of course, you’ll never see that article, will you?
Dana is a such a sweetie. I hope she’s st ill single. I am going to set her up with my ex. He deserves a sweetie like Dana. ……ROFLMFAO.
Awww shucks. Aren’t you sweet? And SO clearly serious about this and in no way being a jerk. Yeah.
Anyway, I’m married to a Marine. He thinks I’m pretty fabulous and that’s all I need to know.
Men built this society. In fact, they have built, currently build and will continue to build most everything in our world. Who are the engineers for the most part? The scientists? The laborers? The garbage collectors? I have no idea where would we would be without their contributions. I suspect we’d still be in caves – nicely decorated ones, but caves nonetheless. I do NOT hate women. I think we can be wonderful. I know there are many wonderful, generous, beautiful and loving women out there. I just don’t see much of it online anymore. I see hateful whiners who… Read more »
I feel the same way as you in a lot of ways, but I think there’s a flaw in the argument here. Yes, men have done much of the physical building of society and much of social building as well. Leaving aside the fact that women have contributed a lot, too, there is a fault in that logic. Even if one could prove that everything society is made by men, there is still the possibility that maybe if it were all made by women it would be even better. (I’m not saying that it would be, but that is just… Read more »
‘Dog can’t hunt’ is an expression that in no way alleges “mental health problems, misogyny, bitterness, living in moms basement, abuser, small penis ”
But your response plainly shows your hate and bitterness which of course is quite often the basis for a lack of rational.. Please seek help.
Site just refreshed and ate my comment. smh.
Paraphrase:
She’s obviously wrong… doesn’t deserve our energy or time. The only men hurt by this article are the ones she’s talking about. Me, I’m too busy being the opposite of the guy she loathes to care. What’s important is that my daughter won’t grow up having this worldview because she’ll have seen a father live, love and sacrifice for his own wife and family in the manner in which the author’s apparent hurts and relationship failures preclude her from seeing.
@ The Moderator
Are you also going to censor all of the hateful comments and personal attacks made by the womynz?
Or are you just White Knighting to protect the womynz feelings?
I already know the answer.
FROM CARLOS: “Life is unfair, learn to cope” In other words, “take it like a man?” Carlos, that you take a clearly gender neutral statement and immediately asses it as an anti-male statement says more about you then me, or the statement itself. Let me be more clear. LIFE. IS. UNFAIR. and therefore the only thing one can do is: LEARN. TO. COPE. There is just no plainer way to put that. Yes, how totally un-profound and unoriginal a suggestion. If you want profound please look up the teachings of Buddha. Unoriginal perhaps, but fitting. For all your claims of… Read more »
Yes you’re right of course. Life is unfair, “learn to cope” is a totally gender neutral statement since men are no more oppressed than women in our society and both groups are equally well supported by our tax dollars. It’s not as though affirmative action, the legal system, liberalized gender roles, health care spending, media portrayals, selective service, tax-sponsored support services or anything else favor one sex over the other. Phaw.. LIfe’s unfair. You’re absolutely right and I don’t think you are making a gross over-generalization that happens to gloss over the problems of one sex by pretending they are… Read more »
A gender neutral statement is exactly that. Attempting to attach one gender’s issues or the other to it doesn’t change that. Nice try though. Men are oppressed differently. Trying to make a case for ‘more oppressed’ or ‘less oppressed’ is as ridiculous as trying to measure suffering. Affirmative action helps many men, just not white men usually, is that your real complaint? The legal system historically favored men until the last few decades – where were the male complaints then? Interesting huh? Not that this makes it right but it’s a point, and in order to make the legal system… Read more »
In case my name didn’t give it away. I’m not white. Nice try though. Blacks have complained for decades about how facially neutral policies, such as the war on drugs, are enforced in a manner that is massively and pervasively biased. Just because something is gender neutral on the surface doesn’t necessarily make it so sweety. You should really stop reading so much Women’s Studies ideological nonsense. Health care spending vastly over-emphasizes females who already live longer. You could say making men the guinea pigs for medicine discriminated against women. You could also say that not letting women die in… Read more »
Just saying something is biased doesn’t make it so. The ‘war on drugs’ is a farce in so many ways it’s hardly worth discussing but you brought it up so we’ll give it a go. The facts are that drug dealers, drug lords, etc. are overwhelmingly male. That law enforcement profiles minorities for arrest has nothing to do with gender issues. This is like saying it’s unfair that most serial killers are male. It’s just a fact. Please try citing facts. Health Care ‘spending’ is what individuals spend on health care personally, and yeah, women spend more on health care… Read more »
@Carlos Stating facts and using logic are two different things. You said: “And just who in society made the rules? Were they made democratically by all men or by the Alpha Males? Were the Alpha Males showing consolidarity with the men that were the work horses of industry and society and protectors of woman, children and country? Just because the man on top has a penis doesn’t mean he will show good will towards men. Here’s a new flash for you, men on top don’t feel challenged by women — they are pursued by hordes of them. They don’t need… Read more »
@candidcutie “I think the idea that women look down on a man who stays at home is more a generational thing.” I totally disagree. It is not a ‘generational things’ it is a consequence of the natural human psyche. There will of course be exceptions to the rule – but for most male-female human pairings primarily reliant upon one income – no matter what they may say to others or even themselves – they will always be papering over the cracks in the reality of their sub-conscious if they proclaim satisfaction with a situation of a bread-winning female. Particularly when… Read more »
Reply from Feministe to this article: Where Have All the Good Men Gone? That is what Kay Hymowitz wants to know in her latest at WSJ. Her argument, which appears to be based largely on Judd Apatow movies and a (good) book about one woman’s dating life, is that the increasing success of women has let men off the hook when it comes to responsibility of any kind. She doesn’t go as far as to blame women explicitly, but Hymowitz is a well-known conservative writer whose work I’ve followed for some time — she’s particularly talented at not actually blaming… Read more »
Excellent!
From where is this article could you have possibly drawn that conclusion? I am one of those feminists, and I opt for a completely class-based distribution of state resources–that’s what the social safety net is for, and what is was designed for in the 1880s in the new German state (specifically for veterans and public health programs for cholera). Also, I am Canadian, so maybe things work differently where you are from, but I have never experienced affirmative action, nor have many other white women working outside of the public service since the 90s. The closest thing I can maybe… Read more »
I think I would need a citation for that one, because after taking a women’s studies minor and working in public health, policy research, environmental consultations, and aboriginal affairs from a feminist perspective, I have never once come across this idea of deliberately slanting everything in women’s favour. I have come across numerous resources that aid in resolving endemic material disparities between social groups, and numerous resources for issues such as maternal health and mortality (which really benefits everyone), but other than that, nothing. In some public health systems, it is cheaper to get viagra than birth control–or acne cream… Read more »
Here here @ Dad On The Run! Since we are getting all anecdotal – I have a lot of male married friends who are in creative feels which makes more sense for them to be at home with the kids. Their wives are grateful – I think the idea that women look down on a man who stays at home is more a generational thing. I get the feeling from reading these posts that some men got burned along with some feminist’s bra’s.. Real talk, my male friends get more grief from other men. It would be interesting to hear… Read more »
The denial of the vote for women was an extension of the denial to vote for the common man. In those days not only was there sex discrimination, but also class discrimination. In those days it was true women were not allowed to vote, it is true women were culturally denied education, work opportunity, but they were also denied the horror of front line combat. In the UK Common men were given the right to vote in England in 1918, that year in particular because over 700,000 British men had just given their lives in defense of democracy, a significant… Read more »
Dana – “If history is one sided it’s the fault of your gender.” The wars of the early twentieth century (when women were worrying about not being able to vote) is the story of a few men in power sending millions of men to die as cannon fodder in defence of nations. The women of the time didn’t seem to have a problem with not being allowed to die for their country in this way. Dana – “Women didn’t even have the right to vote in the U.S. until 1920.” This type of thing is often quoted as evidence of… Read more »
@Peter C.
“A civilization that chooses to sneer in the face of its young males, sneers at its own future”
@Um
“Sneer? Colleges around America are employing a young male affirmative action program desperately trying to keep up male numbers. “
I am not American. But If what you say is true – what must have led to this ‘affirmative action’ ? – people may ask.
Um, your various posts to myself and others are a series of feminist, one-dimensional, hackneyed sound-bites which treats common sense as a virus .
The Wall Street Journal is wondering where all the “good men ” are ?
Did you expect to find them on Wall Street ?
@ Randolph I wish you could mark favorite comments.
I have a 28 year old son, he is single and entering his 3 year of celibacy. He has no intention of marrying or conceiving children. To speak to the caliber of his personage, he left a business that he shared ownership in to spend two years personally tutoring his autistic nephew, my grandson. He is an intelligent man that completed his entire high school 4 year curriculum at home in a year and a half, basically on his own. I have explained to him in no uncertain terms that the choice to conceive or have children can be exercised… Read more »
Are you giving him realistic advice though? Who is going to wanna have a kid with a 50 year old guy? I can say as a 26 year old woman, it’s not at all something I’d ever consider for multiple reasons. #1 being that men over 35 have sperm that is at risk of having serious chromosomal problems that can cause down syndrome or autism. Science has proven this. Time to stop onesidedly blaming women’s fertility. Men supply 50% of genetic material and theirs ‘spoils’ at the same rate. You’re not doing him any favors by supplying him with outright… Read more »
Really?
My sister had a son aged 46, a (female) cousin is pregnant aged 46 and already has a 2 year old, her sister had children when she was 39 and 41. Different people make different choices, sometimes they work out, sometimes….
When you are a 36 year woman you will be a lot more interesting. (I hope) Not your fault, just your age, you’ll understand when you are older. You are right that having children later will be a different experience for all concerned.
I think the simple solution is to freeze his sperm. As to the milestones, all of those milestones can be removed from a man by a disenchanted partner. As to giving bad advice, I don’t believe having children requires a one sided social contract that leaves a man vulnerable. Nothing prevents him from being a single father. I think what he sees is a disconnect between his personal security and the law. I happen to agree with him, the state no longer reflects his interests and concerns or mine for that matter. As a consumer I wouldn’t buy the product… Read more »
“He commented that the site should be called the “good husband project”. I was quite taken with his immediate insight, and found myself agreeing.”
I agree with your son. This place does seem, for the most part, to be concentrating it’s efforts not on how to make things better for men, but rather, on how to make men ‘better’, i.e. more docile, more agreeable, more ‘presentable’ to polite society. For all the hype, it seems to be just a regurge of the same old male improvement projects that are going on worldwide in a suburb near you.
Keith and Natasha,
I agree this site smacks of the “Good Husband Project”, but this article and a few others do signify a positive shift. Let’s hope it continues.
LOL um OK, as a sperm donor a man has no rights over his biological issue. And another point, who is going to want to be impregnated by 50 year frozen sperm?
LOL.. Um.. like yeah!
Men and women who have the sperm or eggs used in the conception of a child can have biological rights over the child. It’s actually pretty common. Ever heard of invitro fertilization or surrogacy? LOL
Man Up? Why should us men ‘man up’ based on the demanding terms of modern women and the anti-male media? Forever women were protected and cared for. Now they have supremacy on top of their previous special class rights. Why should men give women anything as all it will do is spoil them even more. Boycott marriage and providing women with kids. Be careful, many women will sabotage the birth control and then demand your money for decades. Men are learning to embrace their freedom from women. Women and government need us more than we need them. Each day, more… Read more »
Oh Joe,
What you’ve written here is so sad and pathetic.
That you consider oppression the equivalent of being ‘protected and cared for’.
That you consider the position women as a whole stand currently as ‘supremacy’.
That you consider propagating the species as ‘providing women with kids’.
It’s all so very telling and I really do hope you will seek serious emotional help.
Code green and white.
hxxp://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/
Call it whatever you like Denis, it doesn’t hide the fact that this person needs serious emotional help.
What are your professional qualifications to make such an assessment of someone that you know nothing about and have never met?
Apparently anybody who thinks marriage is a bad idea needs some brainwashing.
Here’s another idea, MYOB and let people live their own lives.
I agree Dana, he appears to have been emotionally abused and is unwilling to enter into another abusive relationship.
Most likely emotionally abused by a mentally unbalanced and/or vindictive woman and then financially, emotionally and psychologically raped by a system that enforces a presumption of male guilt and female innocence rather than protect him.
rumplestilstkin……………………..you can wake now!!!
Denis, The blind could see this man has issues. Also nowhere did I mention he should get married. Heaven forbid. I would happily MYOB but he put it out for the world to see. If more people got involved when someone seemed on the edge many bad instances could be averted. Carlos, The key you’re missing in this – and an astonishing number of women as well seem to miss – is that of self responsibility. A person being mentally, emotionally, or physically abused by their partner can get up and leave at any time. They chose not to. The… Read more »
Of the abused men who called domestic violence hotlines, 64% were told that they “only helped women.” In 32% of the cases, the abused men were referred to batterers’ programs. Another 25% were given a phone number to call that turned out to be a batterers’ program. A little over a quarter of them were given a reference to a local program that helped. Overall, only 8% of the men who called hotlines classified them as “very helpful,” whereas 69% found them to be “not at all helpful.” Sixteen percent said the people at the hot line “dismissed or made… Read more »
What about the children… GROWING UP WITH A PROBLEM THAT DOESN’T EXIST “You’re disgusting, just like your mother. Why don’t you go join her?” My mother spat the words at my father. Though spoken many decades ago, those words still ring in my ears. He had loved his mother very much, had agonized as her health had deteriorated, and now that she had passed away, he missed her. What could possibly hurt him more than just attacking her memory? Why, wishing him dead too. My mother’s attacks went beyond emotional devastation. Though her weight of 100 lbs. was no match… Read more »
Denis, Again, the key here is self-responsibility. I heard stories like this myself from women back in the day. I can recall even in the 80’s women in the neighborhood going to the police to report domestic abuse and being told by officers ‘Well your husband says you walked into a door. Let’s not get hysterical.’ So these women stayed and tolerated further abuse because they didn’t have support, or jobs, or money, or what have you. This is no excuse. It’s horrible of course, the lack of support. Still no excuse. You do not stay in a abusive situation.… Read more »
Dana, you’re blaming the victims.
They have no social supports and nobody who cares.
Even worse, dominant aggressor profiling will put them in jail.
Dana, Is the first response to abuse to run and hide? People have a lot to lose when they leave relationships, men in particular can take the abused kids and run, only to have the tables turned on them with custody returned to the abusing mother and with them out on the street paying child support. I can’t help thinking abuse is the symptom of a larger underlying problem. The system objectifies abusers and seeks to dispose of them. I work in manufacturing and understand quality principles. Every strategy that is used in abuse prevention has been tried and proven… Read more »
The presenting case, that of David Woods and his daughter Maegan, now in her early 20s, was compelling because the evidence was irrefutable, the worst case of gender bias in this area I have ever seen. David Woods is a handicapped man in a wheelchair, incapable of livingAdvanced care directiveson his own, and dependent (or was during the relevant period, the 1980s, when Meagan was a young girl) on his wife Ruth, who is bi-polar with violent tendencies. David frequently attempted to get help from a Sacramento DV agency, who always told him “We don’t help men,” explaining that men… Read more »
Sorry guys, the ‘blaming the victim’ story won’t hold. The ‘victim’ is a grown adult with the capability to leave. A parent leaving and taking their child is not ‘kidnapping’ under the law. If that were true anyone could call the cops on their wife/husband every time they left the house with children in tow. Again, I’m not saying it’s easy or that the justice/social services/welfare system is fair in these cases (or any cases), just that it must be done. I’m not buying into the victim crap, and it only enable those who see themselves as victims to do… Read more »
“As a grown adult your job is to separate yourself and your children from the abuse. Do what you have to do. If you need proof – tape record it, take pictures, hide a video camera – whatever.”
On this I agree, but what I was trying to explain and you were trying to avoid is the FACT that men need evidence to take their children and women only need accusations.
Denis, I have quite obviously NOT avoided any FACT. I have stated that there is unfairness in social services – in fact I said it is horrible the lack of support. I have stated that the unfairness swung from being less on the women’s side to far more on the women’s side, (when in truth it should be on the side of the children). The only thing I haven’t done is give in to this ‘blaming the victim’ nonsense. And I won’t. As I have already said – No matter the circumstances it is NEVER, EVER, O.K. to allow someone… Read more »
The biggest problem, to me, with this article (not the one you wrote, Tom. Yours are always fabulous) is that it assumes that to grow up, you have to become boring, which is exactly what I got from that hateful article. Seriously. Men can still be “children” and hold down jobs. There is nothing wrong with acting that way, especially if you’re a contributing member of society. I realize this article is saying that men are apparently waiting longer to get careers, but what is growing up anyway? Because if it’s becoming someone incredibly boring, who’s life revolves around work,… Read more »