Joanna Schroeder explains that little boys aren’t the only ones who tease because they like someone.
The blog post You Didn’t Thank Me For Punching You In The Face from Views From The Couch has been floating around the Facebook pages and Twitter newsfeeds of my feminist friends a lot these days. And it’s a great little article, basically summed up by this opening paragraph:
I am sure every girl can recall, at least once as a child, coming home and telling their parents, uncle, aunt or grandparent about a boy who had pulled her hair, hit her, teased her, pushed her or committed some other playground crime. I will bet money that most of those, if not all, will tell you that they were told “Oh, that just means he likes you”. I never really thought much about it before having a daughter of my own. I find it appalling that this line of bullshit is still being fed to young children. Look, if you want to tell your child that being verbally and/or physically abused is an acceptable sign of affection, i urge you to rethink your parenting strategy. If you try and feed MY daughter that crap, you better bring protective gear because I am going to shower you with the brand of “affection” you are endorsing.
And I totally agree with this mother. I’ve been thinking the same thing myself since my eldest son came home from kindergarten with is first bully story. This child was pushing him, bossing him around, inviting him to play and then disinviting, calling him “Brainiac” (apparently this is mean?) and chasing him around when he was trying to hang out with his best pal Jake.
Of course I was livid! This is my Izz, the sweetest, smartest, somewhat-nerdy lovebug who is the favorite of all of his friends’ moms. Who was this jerk picking on him?
“Sienna Raye” he answered.
“Wait,” I said, “Sienna Raye is doing all these things to you?” I smiled. It dawned upon me the way I’d seen little Sienna Raye gazing googly-eyed at my Izz during my reading rotation in the classroom. She likes him!, I thought.
But then it occurred to me, just as it occurred to this mama blogger, that explaining to my child that this kid was acting shitty because she liked him was sending a messed-up message.
The Queen Of The Couch explained her feelings about this tradition like this:
When the fuck was it decided that we should start teaching our daughters to accept being belittled, disrespected and abused as endearing treatment? And we have the audacity to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships?
And I agree with her. It’s a jacked up message to send to little girls: that boys pull your pigtails because they think you’re cute, they snap your bra because they actually like you, that they call you a bitch or a slut in middle school because they want your attention. It all happened to me, too, of course. Boys followed me around in 9th grade singing the tune of “Dirty Diana” by Michael Jackson, putting my name in place of Diana. I wasn’t scarred, but it hurt my feelings for sure. Two of these boys have since confessed that they had mad crushes on me and that’s why they did it.
But this weird form of bullying, totally accepted by society, isn’t just boy-on-girl and it never has been. As far as I can remember, girls were tripping boys, teasing boys, whispering openly and pointing at boys, and chasing boys around the playground and then getting mad when the boys chased back.
And in calling behavior like this by either sex “cute” diminishes the damage that can be done. When someone does something that bothers a child, it should be recognized by the parent as simply not right. If it hurts the child, no matter why the other child is doing it, then telling them that it’s because the little boy or girl “likes” them, tells them, Your feelings don’t matter, someone’s giving you attention and you should just take it.
Some of my friends on Facebook see this as a feminist issue, but I see this as simply a parenting issue. Too often children of all sexes/genders grow up to believe that dramatics, name-calling and mistreatment are fundamental to a relationship, and they often don’t realize that the script that tells them they deserve it goes all the way back to the playground.
So did I tell Izz that Sienna Raye just thought he was cute, and she didn’t know how to tell him? Nope. I framed it as I do with bullying, that there are feelings inside the child that confuse and frustrate him or her and that the bully is making the wrong choice on how to express those feelings. Then we talk about what he should do in response, which is always about owning your own personal space, telling the other kid that you don’t like that, don’t think it’s fun, and that they need to stop now. Finally using a strong and loud voice to say NO! and telling a teacher.
I don’t know for sure that this is the right thing to do. Maybe I’m preventing my kid from knowing how to handle normal girl-boy relations. I hope not. What do you think? How should I have handled this? Do we all know how to flirt and tease because we were teased on the playground?
And is it any different because it was a little girl bothering a little boy instead of the reverse?
Photo Courtesy of libertygrace0
About Joanna Schroeder
It starts young. Children need to be taught to keep their hands to themselves and that there is no valid reason to hit anyone, no matter who. I and my peers were taught our whole lives to not hit girls, no matter what they did to you. Girls were taught that boys shouldn’t hit them, which means that it was perfectly acceptable for them to hit boys, and that’s what they did. Every so often, a boy would retaliate and it didn’t work out so well for the girl.
Why shouldn’t the message be to not hit, kick, or punch anyone? What could be wrong with that?
It should absolutely be the message. Non violence, bodily autonomy, respect. Self defense as a last resort.
Agreed. Completely.
That being said. the move from say….8/9 into the 12/14 age range is fraught. I have a son who is in love with his 2nd grade friend. They are super sweet together. I have a 12 year old who isn’t pulling pigtails, but he is falling down/pratfalls/dumb jokes.
Kids in the pre/adolescent phase…it’s like shaking up a bottle of soda and then not letting but a little carbonation out. They are het up, confused, frustrated and violence and dominance issues are often the outcome. Not good, and more reason to teach kids ample communication skills.
I remember being smacked on the back of the head daily by a guy I adored. Apparently he adored me too. I remember all kinds of ways that emotional affection was expressed in very non affectionate, clumsy physical ways.
What to do?
Stick to the basics of keeping your hands to yourself no matter what. It’s a healthy principle. Unless you are in serious bodily harm, and only to stop the attack.
I learned a hard lesson In middle school that boys shouldn’t hit girls AND that girls shouldn’t hit boys.
A girl I’ll call Mandy apparently took a liking to me. Many hit me in a playful way. I hit her back in the same playful way, but told her to leave me alone as I didn’t like her in that way. That embarrassed Mandy, as others heard and saw the whole thing. As a result, in an instant, she went OFF on me. She went crazy, hitting, kicking, punching, scratching, as if she was trying to killl me.
It all happened so fast that I didn’t know what was happening but when my eyeball got scratched, I instinctively swung in the direction of the attack and ended up clocking her. One swing ended it. She ended up with a black eye. I ended up with a scratched eyeball. I felt really, really bad afterward but she is the one that got into trouble.
I still regret that incident all these years later. But, I learned some lessons that I am passing on to my kids and others. I should have just ignored her the first time. Maybe she wouldn’t have gone off. I also learned that there is good reason for boys to not hit girls and there is good reason for girls to not hit boys. Bottom line, keep your hands to yourself even if someone else doesn’t.
I’m a compulsive fence sitter on these types of issues. I wholeheartedly agree that respect should be learned and earned by all, but I’m not at all game for zero tolerance type views with regards to play, teasing, etc
Children use their bodies/touch to communicate much more so than adults – as their social skills try and catch up to their energy levels, and explaining the “why” is critical to overcoming fears and speaking openly when someone does something to you that you do not like.
That someone does something because they like you cannot be lumped into with someone doing something because they don’t like you – understanding and appreciating intent (with all the usual caveats to avoid argument), is a critical social skill that builds a healthy context around actions.
Elissa: “That someone does something because they like you cannot be lumped into with someone doing something because they don’t like you – understanding and appreciating intent (with all the usual caveats to avoid argument), is a critical social skill that builds a healthy context around actions.”
There’s a big difference Elissa. We’re talking about tripping someone up, pulling their hair, hitting, etc. Who cares about intent when you’ve got someone harassing another with physical stuff like this?
By the way, another critical social skill is to tell the person doing this, if they LIKE the other person, is mention there are other ways to express their feelings.
Joanna: ““Wait,” I said, “Sienna Raye is doing all these things to you?” I smiled. It dawned upon me the way I’d seen little Sienna Raye gazing googly-eyed at my Izz during my reading rotation in the classroom. She likes him!, I thought.
But then it occurred to me, just as it occurred to this mama blogger, that explaining to my child that this kid was acting shitty because she liked him was sending a messed-up message.”
Thank goodness you did, Joanna, because you were dangerously close to perpetuating the dangerous stereotype of girls lacking ability to harm others. That kind of thinking leads to male victims and survivors of female abuse not being believed when they try to find support.
If it’s bad for boys to do this to girls, then so it is the other way around as well.
“If it’s bad for boys to do this to girls, then so it is the other way around as well.”
Precisely.
“And is it any different because it was a little girl bothering a little boy instead of the reverse?”
Contrary to conventional wisdom, including this morning’s Today Show segment on Chris Brown and Rihanna – NO.
In 8th grade, a classmate used to tickle me, then sing songs to me like “You’re So Vain”, and other insulting things (i.e.., the insinuation was that I was a cat and not a person…I know, what a jerk!)…..when he finally asked me out for real, I said “no” and he looked dejected…..what did he expect? He was so mean and rude to me…and I did not see him interact so rudely with the other girls….
3 decades later, he told me at HS reunion that I was the “love of his life” in 8th grade….which astounded me…His actions to me meant that he really despised me!
Then he wrote a memoir of growing up….and it seemed like he could barely conceal his utter hatred of girls and women since he was living through domestic hell with his brawling parents who eventually divorced…..whatever hatred he had of his parents he passed down to the girls he flirted with….Weird, huh?
Now he teaches memoir-writing at a well-known university, but I don’t think he has changed his core beliefs (he was so snide to my friends at last reunion…and sneaking peeks at my ass while trying to creep up behind me “accidentally”…I think some people do not evolve much from junior high school!)
What hit home to me about that article was not necessarily that it we’re breeding domestic abusers (of either sex) or, hell, we’d all be domestically abused/abusing when we got older. Now, I understand that teaching kids violence and name-calling is not acceptable is still SO important – and putting down this ridiculous excuse that “s/he must like you!” as if this shiz be normal!!!!
That said. What I really took from it is the idea that this is how people learn to about relationships later. As adults, it’s rarely as aggressive as hair-pulling (can you imagine??), but it is subtle in terms of how we may treat one another, and the things we take as normal and indications of *affection* (e.g. attention = affection, no matter what kind). Not. Okay.
@Joanna Schroeder: “How should I have handled this?”
First, what you said is good. No violence, no name-calling, personal boundaries, etc.
Second, I think it’s important to tackle the issue of expressing affection, liking, interest. You know, emotional and sentimental education.
Children aren’t born with this knowledge: it’s precisely parents, teachers and the school that should provide this kind of information.
Until adults provide children with clear information about the healthy way to express their emotions, most children will act them awkwardly.
@Joanna Schroeder: “is it any different because it was a little girl bothering a little boy instead of the reverse?”
Of course it makes NO difference.
And I’m ready to pull the hair of anybody saying the opposite.
I remember getting hit in the back by a basketball that was thrown from all the way across the gym. Mom told me it was because he liked me. That was confusing to me. I tried to be happy about it after she said that, but…it really hurt! And I just couldn’t connect affection to it, at least not my own.
Bra-snapping: constant, and painful. Especially when they snapped the main strap in the back, where the metal clips were. The message was “You have tits! You have tits! Hey look everyone, she has tits!” Hair-pulling: not as often. Dirty limericks written about me, calling me a whore, by a boy who seemed to love my attention nonetheless. Sometimes a group of boys, in middle school, would encircle a girl and would keep grabbing her ass, not let her out of the circle; every time she turned around to confront one boy, another would get her from behind. Eventually I learned to sit down on the ground; even then they tried to reach under me to get to my butt. I was then a spoil sport, not fun, uptight.
The teasing continued during my teenage years. Now that they had cars, some boys (and some men still do this, even when they’re adults), when they would pull up next to you, would rev their engines really loudly and laugh when you were startled. It was even funnier for them if you got mad.
Soon after graduating high school, a man stalked me in order to park his vehicle near me and masturbate so that I could see. He showed up outside my work, and then one block away from my house. I’m assuming that he was getting off on the power of startling me. Sound familiar?
Playground harassment continues well after girls grow up and leave school. Even at almost thirty, I still got the taunts and laughter on the street. Will it never end?
Surely the boys must have gotten harassed, too, but these are just my personal memories, and I cannot speak for them.
“… there are feelings inside the child that confuse and frustrate him or her and that the bully is making the wrong choice on how to express those feelings. ”
This is the perfect response.
Parenting is the perfect perspective.
The whole article is perfect. If I am ever accused of a serious crime, I want the author on the jury. It is so rare, today, to find a person who understands both justice and compassion.
It’s also misleading to children to suggest that when a member of the opposite sex is mean to you that means they like you, and if a same-sex person is mean to you, it’s bullying or an anger-management problem or just meanness. Why can’t meanness just be something gender-neutral — physical bullying is physical bullying, regardless of gender.
Aside from the issue of adult domestic abuse between the sexes, there’s the basic fact that some people are mean to you because they’re mean. The person of the opposite sex could just be a bully. (Or they could be a bully AND they like you.) You could be picked on because you’re perceived as different or weaker or just happen to walk by at the wrong moment. When you look at how awful siblings can be to each other, you can’t explain that by saying it’s because they like each other…..
I’d be curious to see how much correlation there really is between the ponytail-puller kids and the spouse-abusing adults. Do the little boys who are mean to girls actually become the husbands who beat their wives? My impression of many abusive husbands is that they tend to seem quite charming and sensitive early in the relationship and it’s only a little later that the violent streak comes out. I wonder if they were also like that as kids as well.
I applaud the way you’re handling it. I think it’s important to open that distinction: “she has feelings towards you she is probably confused about, and is expressing them inappropriately. Tell her to stop.” Framing it as, “it’s not that she hates you” but rather “she’s just not handling the situation correctly.”
I feel like we lose a lot of the power to guide our children into seeing past the guise that society when we try to take away that these early stages of sexual development in children are, for all intents and purposes, “cute.” They’re cute because they’re innocent and driven by naivety. Yes, this behavior is wildly inappropriate. It’s also inappropriate for a 2-year-old to run into a room and proudly proclaim that they just went poopie all by themselves, but we *still smile* when it happens.
So smile a little. Remember the time when you did that to the little boy or girl that you liked. Explain that it’s inappropriate behavior brought on by confusion, and explain how to stop it. You can even explain that it’s brought on by her actually liking, in some way, your son. When he’s confused by this, it’s a *perfect time* to talk about appropriate displays of affection and how complicated, confusing, and overall difficult the social nuances of romance are. It’s not a simple subject and it’s hard to understand.
I don’t believe that bra-snapping is the beginning of domestic abuse. It may be that some people don’t grow out of bra-snapping, but generally speaking the bullying that occurs *in these situations* at the ages you describe occur because it’s considered socially unacceptable to “like” the opposite gender and these children, well, *do* like the opposite gender. Or at least individuals in the opposite gender. Sometimes romantically, sometimes not.
As a child in Bethesda’s hit game Skyrim said, “I wouldn’t have to beat him up if he would just kiss me.” I laughed. I laughed because that’s exactly the mentality that I had when I was about 7… just put more bluntly.
I think it’s possible, Joanna, to both convey the idea that using violence is wrong and to help provide some context at the same time. I think the message you gave your son was great – regardless of our feelings, our confusion about them, and our not knowing how to process them, it’s never okay to use violence towards another as an outlet. At the same time, you might provide him with some context about why this particular child in this particular scenario might be treating him this way. Certainly if the question of “why is she treating me this way?” crossed his mind it could be helpful to know that she probably likes him and is expressing it inappropriately. To do so doesn’t excuse the violence, but it contextualizes it so your son can understand the nature of the relationship he has with this girl, and how he might move forward.