Alyssa Royse has been thinking about the geeks vs. jocks conflict in high school, and how it may shape the way our men grow up.
When Aaron Sorkin’s The Social Network came out a few years ago, it brought the age-old battle between jocks and geeks to the forefront in a way that felt very personal to me at the time. He got in some trouble for his portrayal of geeks as angry people, but I found his clarification of that to be incredibly spot-on.
Sorkin explained, “I was writing about a very angry and deeply misogynistic group of people. These aren’t the cuddly nerds we made movies about in the 80’s. They’re very angry that the cheerleader still wants to go out with the quarterback instead of the men (boys) who are running the universe right now …”
This got me to thinking, about the whole geeks vs. jocks conflict in high school, and how it may well shape the way our men grow up. In fact, it must.
To be crystal clear, we’re talking about a subset of geeks. Most of my friends are geeks, and most of them are wonderful. But the subset that Sorkin was talking about is a subset that I know well. As one of a handful of women in the tech startup world at the time, and the girlfriend of a particularly angry and misogynistic geek, it rang really true.
I’ve got some quick empirical experience here, and you’ll have to bear with me here, this is gonna get personal. I usually go to great pains to hide my actual personal life, but I don’t know if I can do it in this one. It involves two recent lovers, my daughter, and the advice of a psychologist who encouraged us to raise a secure daughter more than an over-achieving daughter.
A recent EX was a geek. Possibly one of the geekiest (and most successful) guys in the universe. He wasn’t media’s idea of “attractive”, but I was head over heels in love with him. I loved his brain, the sweet soul I thought he had (and I thought I could heal,) the potential of things that we could do together. I loved HIM, not necessarily his body or his career or… We waited a LONG time before getting intimate, I was madly in love before we did. And I will, shamefully, admit that the first time I saw him naked, my first thought was, “oh my god, I don’t know if I can do this.”
I say that because it matters. That’s how in love I was. It didn’t take long to realize that we had extraordinary chemistry, and not long after that I would fantasize about the sight that had almost repelled me at first. I often told him how sexy I found him, how much I loved our chemistry, and could not have been more doting and appreciative.
However, on an almost daily basis, he would bring up the fact that he couldn’t get laid in high school. (30 years ago!) He was still bitter and resentful of the fact. We could be lying in each other’s arms, sweaty and exhausted from epic sex, and he would still repeat that he couldn’t get laid when he was young, because he was such a geek. I would say, time and time again, GET OVER IT. That’s the past, did you not see what we just did?
But he couldn’t. He couldn’t get over it. And I’m realizing now that maybe we can’t just get over it. So much of our sense of self is etched in stone in those early and awkward years. How our parents treated us, and our peers. Maybe he will always think of himself that way.
Fast forward. That ended. (Obviously.) And the next guy was precisely the guy that the geek would always say he “hated.” Yup, the jock. Captain of everything, most popular kid, frat, the whole works. (It’s worth noting that he is also super smart, SUPER smart, but that’s not really the point here.) When I finally saw him naked, I very stupidly said, “oh my god, really, I didn’t know they really made bodies like this.”
This guy is profoundly comfortable in his body, definitively relaxed and self-assured. It is so easy to be around, there is no ego to soothe, no self-image to repair no grudge, just pure sweetness. At one point, I said to him, “I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone as comfortable in their body as you are.” His response, “why wouldn’t I be?”
And therein lies the rub. This guy has never had anyone respond to him as if he was anything other than supremely desirable on all levels. We are a reflective species, we take our cues about our worth from how people around us respond to us. And he has internalized that in a very deep way. He just moves through life in the self-assured way of a man who has always felt success. Easy. (No sign of arrogance.) Same way the geek internalized the constant rebuff and now moves around with a controlling need to prove his worth.
I thought about families of origin. But the geek had a perfectly normal middle-class upbringing. Although he can ramble off the same list of complaints that we all can about our parents and whatnot, his childhood was just fine. The jock? His childhood was shit. Oprah Show level shit.
When I think about the two of them, I keep returning to the fact that one of them always felt like an unwanted misfit, and the other always felt like a perfect fit. They are, as adults, exactly who they were in high school. Though as people they have each evolved, the role they play, the lens through which they look at themselves is still that old one. For one of them, that’s great. For the other, it’s a serious handicap.
Now, my daughter and the psychologist. When our daughter was in kindergarten, she was showing signs of some seriously gifted academic prowess. We were told that we “had” to put her into the gifted school. She didn’t want to change schools. As parents, her dad and I were conflicted. We wanted to give her the best shot possible, so shouldn’t we accelerate her? But, at the same time, she was so happy!
So we consulted a child-psychologist who gave us the best advice ever. She told us that the job of childhood is for children to discover and know themselves in a way that will serve them as adults. That if our daughter woke up every day of her youth feeling happy, engaged, connected, and successful, she would likely think of herself that way for her whole life. Whereas, if we accelerated her and she woke up every day thinking she was going to struggle, have to compete and never be good enough, she would think of herself that way all her life. It became very simple. We left her where she was. She has, as the psychologist told us she would, consistently invented ways to challenge herself academically. More importantly, she is a connected and compassionate part of her little community, deeply happy and curious and engaged.
I hope that someday she will be an adult who feels the same way. I think about the Jock, and am hoping that we’re raising a kid who has his level of comfort with self and place in the world.
But I also feel bad for the geek. I wish I could have been his mother. By the time I got to him, it was too late. And that’s not my job anyway.
As for high school, I suspect she’ll be fine. And besides, I think that high school needs girls like her. Girls who are kind, smart, generous and able to make others feel wanted and appreciated. I think that’s the most compelling argument I’ve heard for teaching compassion to children. So that they can be compassionate in junior high and high-school, and maybe we can eliminate the whole “vs.” game that seems to scar us. (I am trying to teach her that geeks are where it’s at, but clearly, you have to get to them before they get all bitter and angry.)
There is something decidedly prophetic in Sorkin’s defense of his film, and accurate in his explanation of the arrogant, and maybe even accidental, misogynistic behavior of the angry geeks in The Social Network. But it is a totally accurate portrayal of the men I know who are on that level of that world. They never got over it.
If we are going to feel as adults as we did in high school, then we need to be teaching a lot more than math and science. We need to teach kids that they are wanted, appreciated, desirable and valuable.
And that sometimes, success can be defined as waking up every morning and knowing that you have a place in the world, and people who are so glad to share it with you. Now. Because if you can get over your past, your future is yours for the taking.
This story has been republished to Medium.
Photo credit: iStock
I expect this to never see the light of day, but here I go. I am a 24 year old combat veteran and this article made me cry. It really got to me, drudging up old feelings and striking me deep inside. You see, I was the guy who never got anything in high school. This article made me realize that old hurt never went away, and I think I understand why now. It’s because it was the first time we dealt with romantic sexual feelings, and the young can be cruel. Imagine 11 years younger me. I was 13,… Read more »
Shades of “well, duh” welling up with me here (all a bit too close to home really), but on the whole, a good piece. I think part of the problem is people think saying “well, they’re just misogynist assholes” is the definitive explanation and solution of these negative behaviours, and it is neither. People are never antagonistic in this deep-seated way without reason, and simply throwing another label at geeks and treating them like a pariah (even for slightly better reasons) is just going to reinforce the message they’ve internalised all their lives. You’re not going to get through to… Read more »
Yeah, I’ve been blocked, so you probably don’t even have to read this comment to toss it in the trash, but this article struck a nerve. You had a relationship with someone who’d been hurt, denigrated, and made to feel like he was unworthy of basic human dignity for the overwhelming majority of his life. Then you had the gall to think that he should “just get over it” after less than a couple years of “good” treatment. Well, good except for you constantly shutting down his attempts to speak about his still very real pain over and over again.… Read more »
First, you are correct that this comment was in the trash. I pulled it out because I wanted to respond, and because it is a perfect illustration of the anger in question. I often get accused of hyperbole when I discuss the anger and resentment, so this seems like a great illustration. But beyond that, it’s worth responding to, because there is a lot of meaty stuff in here. That said, comments like this will typically be deleted, and my hope is that if anyone responds, it will be in an open and compassionate manner rooted in understanding each other,… Read more »
The comment wasn’t in the trash because of the post’s content triggering the auto-censor. The comment was in the trash because I was banned from the site over my sexual orientation. I’m left to assume that my current ability to post is due to a software error that will soon be corrected. Your choice to bring that comment, which was never intended as anything more than to be shouted into the empty aether of the internet from an explicitly banned account, and use it as an example to prove your persecution complex is dishonest. Doing so in the full knowledge… Read more »
Youthrigtsradical
Man up and get over it.
If you want to know why society rejects you, look in the mirror. If you want to fix the problem start by looking in the mirror. I did and I’ve been better off for it ever since.
If you refuse to looking that mirror then you will always be a loser.
Scouts Out!
Crazytrpr
US CAVALRY
“Man up.”
Tells me everything I need to know about the sort of person you are.
I was the geek in high school, rather than turning bitter in high school, I turned lonely. 16 years after graduating high school, even after a wonderful and life altering high school, meeting a wonderful group who are my best friends and family (literally in some cases as we have intermarried over the years), and many other adventures that let me find who I am. Am I still a shy introvert outside of my usual social circles? Yup. Am I self-confident and dynamic in the right social situation? Yes, as well. But, yes, the damage of the formative years is… Read more »
So true. I still revert to the childhood and adolescent messages i got from being generally bad at every aspect – academic and social – of school. On bad days, I am pretty well convinced that I am a stupid failure, destined to be alone who is about to get in trouble again. Despite being in my 40’s with an amazing husband and family and home and career and, as far as I know, no principal who can suspend me for not showing up to class or telling a teacher to fuck off. And I still lose sleep over failing… Read more »
I want so much to say that you’re wrong or lying because you yourself went with the jock in the end. You also acknowledge a couple times in your article that there is a point of no return. Yes I really am that bitter and hardheaded. I’m…sorry. I’m really, really sorry. This has just opened a lot old wounds. I have sought professional help for myself, and we’ve made significant progress. It is an ongoing process, though. Now to add something constructive to the conversation. It seems to me that a lot of emphasis has been placed on physical attractiveness.… Read more »
Well, not that it really matters, I didn’t wind up with the jock either. 😉 I left the geek because his anger and bitterness resulted in him being awful to be around and two years was enough. It was demoralizing constantly trying to make him feel better about himself, and, on top of it, to hear him talk about how women never wanted him as I was working as hard as I could to fulfill his every sexual fantasy and fill the giant hole in his soul. (Which I did because it was fun, and I loved him, and wanted… Read more »
First let me say good article. I don’t agree with all of it, but I appreciate the tone and intent. My two cent is that confidence and the social impact there of is an odd beast and I have a personal anecdote to illustrate this. In college I had major surgery. It required that I wear a half halo that held and apparatus that teased the bone growth of my upper jaw out for nearly half a year. That’s right, I had the surgical equivalent of head gear in college. For the first month I was a shut in. I… Read more »
Yup. It’s extremely complex. I have a similar anecdote, actually, and it was fascinating to me. When I broke my neck I had to wear a neck brace for a little over a year. I was an adult, same woman I am now. Jeans, boots, t-shirts, no make-up, girl next door. However, because I could not stand the aesthetics of the plastic collars, I spent my time in hard leather collars, the kind typically seen in BDSM fetish wear. They were beautiful, and worked very well. I am not typically perceived as a “threat” to people’s relationships, and have the… Read more »
A part of me wants to be angry at you for writing this article. A part of me wants to point out that this is kind of reinforcing what we geeks already learned in high school: ‘we’re broken misfits and aren’t worth fixing.’ A part of me wants to be upset about how you paint your ex as “poor little geek, I wish someone would help him.” But I know you’re just trying to help and bring these things to light. And for that, I thank you. But you’re right; for some of us it is too late.
A part of me wants to tell you that it’s not too late, it’s never too late. A part of me wants to remind you that you are worth loving, and always were, and that the people who made you think you weren’t are the problem, not you. A part of me wishes that I could fix “it,” not you, because there’s nothing wrong with you that can’t be fixed. But I know that it’s not my right to do that, or my responsibility, or anywhere within my skill set. But I would if I could. But it’s in your… Read more »
Best thing you can do is tell your daughters to talk to geeks, talk to everyone, get to know them and don’t follow the group idea at school. Many male geeks lack DECENT interactions with females, I can tell you as someone that use to be misogynist that most of it was because the only interactions I had usually were females bullying me. The nice girls didn’t hang out with me much and it all spiralled downward, made it harder to talk to women and thus even less likely to have female friends and the cycle repeated. Great job on… Read more »
Seems so simple, doesn’t it?!?! Treat people with respect, listen, learn, connect….. 😉 I’m doing my best to raise women who treat men – and other women, and all people – with respect and kind find intimate and loving connections with people. Wish me luck. (That’s probably an article in and of itself, huh.)
Good luck. I’d love to see an article like that, especially the listen to his consent one as it’s usually always framed in the reverse where men are told to be careful of her consent and women treated as lil victims.
Thanks for this article. I hope a lot of people read it.
We’ve met before (online, that is). The topic of your OP is a hot-button issue to me. I respond on a number of different levels with a greater or lesser degree of emotionalism on my part. I have varied comments to make. I may have more to say later. “. . . the geek had a perfectly normal middle-class upbringing. Although he can ramble off the same list of complaints that we all can about our parents and whatnot, his childhood was just fine.” He may not have told you everything. His sense of pride may have kept him back… Read more »
Correction: “to their mother,” not “toward their mother.”
I don’t disagree with you at all! Not even a little bit. But it still seems to me that, in large part, people who grow up feeling “approved of” by the community around them often fare better than those who grow up feeling “rejected” by it. Which certainly extends beyond the Geeks vs. Jocks thing. And, as a CrossFit trainer and gym owner, I could not agree more strongly with your assessment of current PhysEd in school, which seems mostly to disempower all but the most elite team sports players. And none of it is focused on people finding their… Read more »
“I don’t disagree with you at all! Not even a little bit. But it still seems to me that, in large part, people who grow up feeling “approved of” by the community around them often fare better than those who grow up feeling “rejected” by it. Which certainly extends beyond the Geeks vs. Jocks thing. ” That’s simple human psychology. Treat people like shit and they will grow up with bitterness n anger, treat them good and like they are worthy (the jocks) and you get people that have no need to worry bout their self-esteem. How can a person… Read more »