Originally appeared at GoLocalProv.com.
Dear John,
I’m a freshman in college. I never had a girlfriend in high school and I have always been very shy so I made up my mind that I would try to force myself to be more social in college, especially with girls. I met someone in one of my classes shortly after school started and we got along great, hung out all the time, etc., but it turned out she only thought of me as a friend. Now, the same thing has happened a second time! I don’t get it. We’re hanging out, we’re having fun, we’re doing everything I picture doing with a girlfriend, but then something happens to remind me that isn’t what’s going on at all. (With the first one, it was when she started confiding in me about this guy she had a crush on.) The worst thing about it is after it comes out that we’re just friends, we’re not even really that any more because it ends up being uncomfortable. How can I prevent this from happening again? How do I tell if a girl likes me as a boyfriend or “just” a regular friend? I definitely don’t want this to keep happening.
Sincerely,
Platonic
Dear Platonic,
I understand you’ve waited a long time for this, but it sounds like you might be trying to force things a bit. How can you prevent this from happening again? It depends on what you mean by “this.” If you mean, how can I stop being attracted to girls who in the end just want to be friends, you really can’t. But you can get better at determining whether a young woman’s interest is sexual, and a good basic rule of thumb is this: if you have to wonder, it’s probably not. If a girl views you as potential boyfriend material, you’ll usually know. If you’re unsure, the answer is most likely not the one you’re hoping for.
But in a way, all this is jumping the gun a bit. The worst way to find a girlfriend is to be overly anxious to find one. This tends to act as a repellant. The good news in your letter is that it seems to be easy for you to relate to women, have fun with them, and enjoy their company. While these qualities haven’t yet made you irresistible to the women you’ve crossed paths with, eventually they will for someone. And when that happens, you’ll know it. In the meantime, be patient, and don’t try so hard.
Dear John,
I’m gay. My family knows and could not be more supportive, my friends know, etc. It’s not a secret. The only people who don’t know are my co-workers. I’ve just maintained a lot of space between my job and my personal life.
For about a year, I’ve worked for a very small company. There are only about five of us who work together every day. The owner of the company, a man ten or so years older than I am, is one of these people. Unfortunately, he is one of the more homophobic people I’ve encountered—usually under the guise of “comedy,” he tells a lot of gay jokes, makes a lot of stupid cracks, and is just really crudely immature and maladjusted. It’s pretty much a daily thing. I have a sense of humor, and I don’t take myself seriously at all, but this has reached the about-to-boil-over point. I feel like I have to do something I’ve thought through or I’ll do something impulsive that I’ll regret. But what to do? There is really no HR person to go to—if anybody had that role, it would be him! I can’t go outside the company because I work in a very close-knit, very small field and I would immediately have a reputation as a “troublemaker,” even amongst people who would be sympathetic to me. I love my career, and I don’t want to do anything that might undermine it. I’ve got to do something, though, because if I don’t, I’ll snap! Any ideas as to what?
Signed,
At The Breaking Point
Dear Breaking Point,
If you don’t want to make a formal complaint but you can no longer ignore this man’s boorish (or worse) behavior, there’s only one thing you can do: talk to him. Ask for a word in private and respectfully tell him that you find a lot of his jokes and comments regarding gay people offensive. (There’s no need to tell him you’re gay, and that’s irrelevant anyway. What he’s saying should be as intolerable to heterosexual people as it is to gay people.) He may react with grace and make some positive changes. Needless to say, however, there’s an excellent chance he’ll react churlishly and make your work environment even more uncomfortable, so it would be smart for you to start exploring your employment options. But if you let this fester to the point where you blow up at him, you’d have to start doing that anyway.
Dear John,
I make my living as a self-employed craftsman. I do excellent work, I behave like a professional, and I charge a fair price. I’m well established, and I make a good living.
Occasionally, I will take on an assistant to teach while he or she helps out in the studio. Like an apprentice. It’s always understood that the apprentice is preparing to go off on his or her own someday—this is not supposed to be a permanent arrangement. I’ve gone through the cycle several times, and it’s always worked very well. I like to teach, I need the help, and I feel like I’m helping to maintain interest in and appreciation for my craft.
But now I’m learning that the most recent assistant I’ve had is apparently saying untrue and unkind things about the quality if my work. I have no idea why he would do this—nothing in our time together would have indicated this would happen—but I can only assume it’s to create a clientele consisting of former clients of mine. What other explanation could there be?
I’m angry, surprised (very), disappointed (also very), but maybe most of all, mystified. So far, this has had no impact at all on my business, and I’ve only heard about it from people who can’t believe the audacity of this kid, but what if anything should I do about it? I’ve thought of everything from showing up at his shop to ignoring it altogether, but I can’t make up my mind – or rather, I think I have, then I have second thoughts. It’s beginning to take more of my mental energy than it’s worth. Once and for all, what should I do?
Sincerely,
Betrayed
Dear Betrayed,
So far, everything you’ve heard has been second-hand, right? So I would go to the source of these comments. Call your former assistant and tell him exactly what you’ve heard. Ask him if it’s true and if it is, ask him why he said it. As of right now, you’ve just caught wind of a lot of upsetting allegations. The person who is supposedly making them deserves a chance to tell his side of the story. It’s possible he said something that was misunderstood or misinterpreted. It’s also possible this guy is a malicious liar who’s trying to destroy your business. So the first step is to hear what he has to say.
If there is an innocent explanation for all this, then you have nothing more to worry about. Granted, that’s pretty unlikely, and if his motives are more sinister, you will have put him on notice that you’re aware of what’s going on and you’re not happy about it. If things continue this way and he persists in badmouthing you even after you talk to him, you may have grounds to pursue some kind of legal action, but that’s a question for an attorney. I think the best course, though, would be to ignore him, especially if your business doesn’t suffer. The work you’ve done and the trust you’ve earned will refute any accusations he makes. The only reputation he’ll succeed in destroying will be his own.
Photo credit: Flickr / lynch
If you’re not happy in a relationship – for any reason – leave that relationship. You don’t just want to be friends? Then don’t be friends – nobody has a right to your friendship anymore than they have a right to your bed. Let me tell you about something that happened when I was younger. When I was 16, a new family moved in next door, and I was tasked with showing their 13 year old daughter around. We got along pretty good, but as you may have noticed, those ages didn’t quite mesh. We were friends, but nothing else.… Read more »
Make your romantic interest plain IMMEDIATELY–when you first meet if that’s the moment, or when you first realize it if it happens later. Don’t waste time hoping “thing evolve in that direction”… they never do.
Once you have a romantic interest in a woman, the friendship is over, one way or the other. Acknowledge it, deal with it, and move on.
“Once you have a romantic interest in a woman, the friendship is over, one way or the other. Acknowledge it, deal with it, and move on.”
Well that’s not necessarily true; I’ve become friends with women I was romantically interested in. Yeah sometimes friendship is impossible…but sometimes it actually works out.
When people date their “best friend”, do they usually become best friends when dating, or date after being best friends? I like the romantic idea of having that awesome friend and you both fall for each other…but I wonder how often that exists compared to meeting someone new, dating, and then becoming best friends.
Another good point!
Agreed, Heather. One of my best friends is a man I dated for almost 2 years (and to whom I lost my virginity). Now, we have a very close, no drama relationship and have always been there for each other in times of trouble and need of advice. Both of us have been dating other people and able to talk about the good and bad in our other relationships (he’s currently gushing over a new girlfriend). His friendship means a lot more to me than any friendship that I’ve had with another girl We don’t gossip or talk shit about… Read more »
@ KC Krupp: Those comments are getting a bit long, so I’m starting here with this bit: “While I disagree with Collen being against having women as friends, what he says about women benefiting from a relationship without having to limit options is true. Most women have at least one guy friend who wants to date her. And she will knowingly continue being “just friends” with this guy even though she knows that it is driving him crazy or hurting him inside.” Okay right so, without diminishing how much that situation would suck for the guy, I’m going to try… Read more »
I kind of agree, and kind of disagree with what John said to At The Breaking Point. I agree that it looks like the best option would be to talk the owner of the company, considering there’s no HR department. But I think that it is entirely relevant that Breaking Point is gay. Sometimes the problems with homophobic jokes don’t really sink in until the person telling them actually meets someone who’s gay. Abstract ideas about being offensive are more difficult to wrap your head around…but when someone finds out that a person they’ve been working with for awhile is… Read more »
I’m not sure what the point of a friendship with the opposite sex is supposed to be? If you’re not sexually involved why would you hang out with these people? They’re annoying in general, high maintenance, and not sleeping with you…..call me crazy but those are all negatives. I don’t have any female friends and don’t care to. From what I can observe their friendships revolve around a lot of drama and emotional baggage about who didn’t treat so and so right….and if you’re friends with a woman, you’re going to hear about this all the time. Worst friends ever!… Read more »
Why would you be replying to a post on a website called the GOOD MEN PROJECT? all your points here misogynistic to an absurd degree. not to mention spewing ridiculous opinions like these would lead one to believe your experience with women is more limited than any other adjective.
Yeah, I don’t think you spend much time with real women. You make a lot of insulting generalizations that aren’t true at all. I like hanging out with my female friends. They all have their own personality and interests, just like men do.
I don’t know how you could believe otherwise unless you don’t interact with them. I have female friends who put up much more interesting conversations than many of my male friends.
You sound like someone from the 19th Century.
Don’t be friends with women. I’ve got more female friends than I know what to do with, but I have never had a girlfriend. You basically get all of the undesirable parts about being in a relationship with none of the benefit. And for them, they get all of the stuff that most guys don’t want to put up with without even having to limit their options.
I disagree, friendships with women can be just as fulfilling as friendships with men! However, I have been in this situation too (twice), so I can sympathize with Platonic. My advice is similar to Collin’s: NEVER “hang out” with a woman you’re attracted to. Ask them out on a proper date, and (this is important), make it clear to her that it IS a date. If you’re too shy to make a move (e.g. flirt, kiss), then at least use the word “date” in conversation (i.e. “I’ve never dated someone from New York before. What’s it like there?”) If this… Read more »
I’m a woman with a lot of guy friends…so I’ll obviously be agreeing with Ax rather than Collin here. Cuz, well, I like my guy friends…lol. But yeah also, I totally agree with the idea that if you’re attracted to a woman you gotta let it be known. I’d also suggest that a woman that’s attracted to a man let it be known too…you don’t have to wait for him to make the first move. (But this is GMP so I guess that’s a bit less valid in this post.)
I have a lot of female friends and I have had a lot o experience dating. I have been in the same position as “Platonic” and have had a lot of friends who have been in the same position. It takes a lot of guts and effort to learn how to avoid the friend zone. While I disagree with Collen being against having women as friends, what he says about women benefiting from a relationship without having to limit options is true. Most women have at least one guy friend who wants to date her. And she will knowingly continue… Read more »
You’re just telling it how it is. I don’t think there’s anything misogynistic about your comment–it’s a direct reflection of everything I’ve experienced since graduating from high school. Like you said, as men we’re still expected to lead in the early stages of a relationship by the majority of women. Feminists can say what they want, but I’ve absolutely still found this to be true. There have been a few cases where a woman approached me, but for the most part that’s not how it worked. Your dating advice is also spot on. There is no need whatsoever to use… Read more »
Some folks are just not natural leaders, so a lot of this advice isn’t going to work for them. Basically, all you can do is to be completely upfront when you meet a woman you’re attracted to and say “Let’s go on a date.” If she doesn’t want to go on a date, it’s then up to you about whether you want to be her friend or not. If you decide a friendship is OK, NEVER LOOK BACK. She decided you weren’t worth dating; don’t ever question that. No backsies! If you ask every woman you’re attracted to for dates,… Read more »
Bob-O,
There is no such thing as a ‘natural leader.’ It’s something that you learn how to be whether it’s because you grew up around other people who learned those skills and copied them or because you decided to learn how to develop those skills yourself by reading and going out and doing.
“You are the same today that you are going to be in five years from now except for two things: the people with whom you associate and the books you read.”
– Charles Jones
Um I don’t think what you were saying is misogynistic. You’re just talking about your experiences and your advice based on that…you’re not telling women they have to behave in a certain way…just saying that’s what you’ve observed. Anyway, I’ve always found dating advice to be a bit odd. If you’re following all this advice about being a person who you really aren’t, then what’s the likelihood you attract the type of woman (or man) you want to attract? It’s like…if you’re the type of guy who actually prefers a woman who makes the first move…well then you might be… Read more »
I’ve been in platonics place, well, forever. I’m also older than him and have done this schtick waayy more than once in college. KC Krupp’s advice is gold. Several things he’s gotta know. At this age, unless you’re superhero Ryan Gosling, girls don’t make the first move. It’s that simple. All my friends wait back for that and they don’t get anything, because girls are not going to show interest in an “average” looking guy. Hate to tell it like it is, but even though college campuses are supposed to be liberalized places, gender roles are entrenched. And you know… Read more »
@Collin – I’m curious as to what you consider the “undesirable” parts of being in a relationship?
What are the undesirable parts of being in a relationship/the stuff women are using you for without the benefit? I’ve known women who toy with men, enjoy the attention and have had a few men who want to date them, flirt with them but then put the brakes on before a relationship happens. For some women (and men) they just want the attention, to feel attractive n what not. It’s best to avoid people like this…like the plague, either they know they do it and are quite frankly bitches/bastards, or they are probably young, insecure and have issues to work… Read more »
Well then people like that aren’t really friends anyway. I mean that might sound a bit cliche to say…but it’s true. Cuz yeah, I agree…avoid people who are trying to use you, regardless of whether your gender or their gender.
True that. I feel pity for the young and/or insecure, I’ve even tried to help someone recently avoid this issue as she was clueless to what she was doing that got these guys chasing her. It’s a real PITA to listen to the misandry n misogny that often occurs after a few of those experiences, that bitterness n pain. Would be good if people were more honest with what they want in life!
“If a girl views you as potential boyfriend material, you’ll usually know.”
Or you won’t. Personally, unless a woman is incredibly direct or I’m tipped off by a third party, I’m pretty hopeless at spotting that sort of thing. “You mean you let me waffle on about post-structuralism because you actually like me? What the hell is wrong with you?”
Besides, chill out and learn to be single. The more you shack up with people the more you realize how much you hate them!