This comment by Archy originally appeared in response to the article The Atlantic and GMP.
Dear egalitarian feminists, remember how the MRA’s get in such a fit over feminism and the whataboutthemenz shaming, privilege slinging, general non-acceptance of men in their movement, and how feminism is NOT for male issues to be helped? I’ve got some quotes from the comment section of the atlantic for you to peruse and it might illustrate the type of feminist many mra’s encounter. It’s the easiest way to understand why there are so many anti-feminists, and why there are quite a few mra’s or even just men who’ve felt like feminism wasn’t accepting of them.
“The one comment that stood out the most to me is Zoe Nicholson’s that men’s ideal involvement in the feminist movement is as passive actors. “Behind,” “underneath,” “away,” men’s thoughts are irrelevant, they just need to give/raise money and stay out of the way. Is she right about this? ”
and the reply to this comment just under this line.
“Yes, she is. The society we live in values the voices of men over women, so feminism needs to be a place where women’s voices are paramount. If men want to share their thoughts and feelings, there’s the whole rest of the world to do that in. Feminism is for women. ”
Basically shutup you privileged male, we want feminism as a female-space
“Yes, it’s women’s responsibility once again to reach out to teh menz. Not that of men to get off their behinds and fight sexism. Fail. ”
Menz with the z is commonly used in an insulting manner, “What about the menz”. The comment may also be ignoring sexism against men but not too sure on that.
“Not my job to convince a man to be a decent human being if his parents failed. Also, given that society encultures women to cater to men in every other arena, I don’t give a damn if men feel hurt at being “excluded” by feminism. It’s not about them. Deal. ”
Against, feminism is not about men, men have all of society, yadda yadda.
“No, I don’t care what men have to say about feminism. They can have a say in feminism when women get to have a say in the patriarchy. ”
Funnily enough in the earlier days women probably did have quite a say in the “patriarchy” if it exists.
Now this is the kind of feminism that clashs with the egalitarian feminism, it seems they believe ONLY women have issues and men have “all the power”(TM), society is for men and men benefit so much.
“I just don’t understand why you are meekly submitting to the bigoted rhetoric of someone who hates you for no other reason than the pairing of your chromosomes. I’m a woman and an advocate for women’s rights, but I find this poisonous strain of feminism to be completely disgusting. I just don’t understand how you, a man and therefore the target of this bile, can react in any other way. ”
Seems some feminists are calling out the radfems (I’m guessing that is what the above were) which is a good sign.
“Exactly, both genders are simultaneously privileged and disprivileged by our traditional gender roles. When it comes to the courtroom (family or criminal), women have a distinct advantage. As to laws against stereotypically gendered violence. I’m speaking of special legal provisions for things like rape and domestic abuse. Where a man’s right to due process is in the name of keeping women safe. Extrajudicial punishments for accused abusers, and rape shield laws that unconstitutionally prevent men accused of rape from being able to present an affirmative defense. Also consider the fact that male victims of domestic violence are more likely to be arrested than their abusers if they call the police. Even if the male victim is dripping with blood, and his female abuser doesn’t have a scratch on her. I’m a criminal defense attorney and I see these things all the time. I was a pretty rabid feminist in college. Then I entered the legal profession and I see just how fundamentally unfair and discriminatory our justice system is to men. There is a growing recognition of this problem amongst attorneys. Even ardently feminist attorneys are beginning to admit that men get the shaft in court.”
This comment really stood out as someone in the industry who see’s the harm men can face and how sexism against men can actually be institutionalized.
This is what men face, even women who support male issues face, there is a clear division in feminism between egalitarians and gynocentrics. This is where the anti-feminism comes from as it’s commonly said that the gynocentric feminists actually have power, ability to lobby for gendered laws that are harmful to men and keeping the victim-mentality going on. It’s important I feel for everyone to see this division in what people think feminism is as it should help illustrate why feminism gets such a bad name at times. I agree it’s unfair to paint them all with the same brush but please understand there is I feel a legitimate concern with regard to feminism on male issues, I truly do not feel safe or comfortable discussing male issues in feminist spaces because of previous experiences where gynocentrics have belittled, antagonized and minimized the experience of men and egalitarians were few n far between.
Feminism for some is a view of equalism, so an attack on feminism can appear to be an attack on equal rights, it can also be seen as an attack on FEMALE rights, but most commonly I see it an attack on hypocrisy by x amount of feminists who cry foul of societies treatment of women but silence or even insulting on issues regarding men. There is a hell of a lot of bigotry within many self-indentified feminists but it’s the socially acceptable kind, bigotry against men and to dare question this will cop a near zealous reaction, and to dare question feminism will quickly land you accused of being a misogynist, hater of equality, “privileged white cis-male”, and other diversionary tactics.
Sorry to say it but quite a lot of feminists have tarnished the name and it’s up to feminists to fix it somehow, when SO MANY men and WOMEN start to call out feminism like I’ve seen recently, there is a big problem. Radfems, or gynocentrics, whatever label they are…seem to be destroying the good name of feminism and that’s sad because the founding principle was a good one. This is my opinion of course, I totally love egalitarian feminists and hate that their voices aren’t heard as much because of the instant association of feminism with the gynocentric misandrists, it’s unfair to be lumped together but quite frankly it’s similar to what mra’s face when they’re lumped together with the androcentric misogynists. I know quite a few egalitarian people and not many like to call themselves MRA or feminist, that in itself to me speaks volumes. Work together people! It seems many of each have the same goals just on different sides of the fence.