Edwin Lyngar puts out a call to arms to all feminist men, whether or not they look the part.
In the years before I embraced feminism, I called myself a “masculinist,” mostly because I was pissed off about an unpleasant divorce. About six or seven years ago I adopted the feminist label, and now that I’ve been part of the club a while, I’ve started to feel lonely.
Feminism can and should be a big tent, but it’s been derided and reduced to a caricature. I suspect that some men feel feminism doesn’t square with the masculine “personality.” It’s a shame. I know lots of men who would never claim to be feminist but yet still believe in sexual equality, equal pay for equal work, and equal opportunity for our daughters, wives, and mothers. I never realized I was a feminist until my current wife pointed it out in passing.
“You’re a feminist,” she declared early in our relationship.
“I don’t think so,” I said.
“You think women should be treated as equal to men,” she said. “That’s feminism.”
I had primary custody of my two kids at the time. I was a working single father, and I was looking to marry an equal. Yet I still never considered myself a feminist. I thought about that conversation for weeks.
The word “feminist” itself is both debated and derided by people who are and are not feminists—the word itself has become problematic. If you control the words people use, you can control the debate (see: George Orwell). I think the problem with so many men is that we don’t fit a feminist mold that we’ve created in our minds.
I’m a greasy fat bastard, and a short skirt can snap my head back. I guffaw at lowbrow comedy, bitch in traffic, and yell at the television like a lunatic. One of my favorite things to do is give the wife a smack on the fanny (she’s a good sport about it). Yet my beliefs are inherently feminist, even though I don’t look the part. Like it or not, Homer Simpson is the American ideal. No matter how crude, fat, odd, undereducated or disgusting, the Falstaffian archetype propels our nation’s collective imagination. And feminism needs Homer in the trenches.
I would say other than men, contemporary feminism also lacks rage. In my many years as a conservative, I’d always heard from people like Rush Limbaugh or Laura Ingraham that feminists are “angry,” but now that I know many feminists, I can attest that feminist anger is a conservative myth. I actually find them accommodating and kind.
It’s sad, but American “debate” seems unable to progress without rage-filled expletives and shouting matches between people on television. I am not sure it’s a good idea, but I think feminists should consider incorporating the strategies of those who oppose feminism. They should perhaps embrace the same shrieking, spittle-flecked venom that the opposition employs.
I know of what I speak, because I come from the other side. I was a lifelong conservative, although moderate, until this last election cycle. My conservative values have declined every year of my life, but in my budding manhood, I was a hard core right winger. I spewed anti-woman, anti-immigrant, and straight up anti-anything bullshit—often. I’m ashamed of my youthful rigidity, and I make up for it by enthusiastically supporting feminist causes.
I’m on a lifelong quest to alter my innate chauvinism and bring other men on board. I don’t know if I’ll ever feel completely at home in the feminist camp, but I won’t let that stop me. Even though I often don’t feel good enough, I embrace the label of feminist. For me, the term is aspirational, and all humans should hope to be good enough one day to earn the title. I would urge other men to jump on in, even if we don’t look the part.
Image: davidlindwallphotoandvideo/Flickr
Like others here (nods to Danny, etc), I consciously and deliberately choose NOT to accept the label of FEMINIST to define myself or my philosophy. I’ll explain why. FEMINIST is just a word – a symbol – a semiotic – pointing to a cluster of concepts and ideas that have become part of our cultural matrix today. Another way of saying that – in marketing language – is that FEMINISM is a brand. And in my view – which I’m not suggesting should be anyone else’s view – that brand has been irredeemably and irreparably tarnished. It has been co-opted… Read more »
Oh my, I would make tender love with this post.
The weird thing is I’ve mostly seen the Equality feminists, whether looking online or on college campus. I certainly know of women who want men to buy them dinners and gifts, and say “Happy Wife = Happy Life” and the “End of Men” is certainly a big thing in the media, but I haven’t heard many self identified feminists making those kind of claims. Self-identified feminists usually argue AGAINST chivalry, and the End of Men. Paul hasn’t seen “the larger feminist community thoroughly deconstructing and rejecting this hateful misandry – spitting it out entirely like the poison pill it truly… Read more »
This second ‘version’ of feminism is exactly why I (as a woman) do not identify as a feminist. There is too much looking down the nose at a woman with a Bachelors (nearly a Masters) CHOOSING to stay at home with my children for me to accept that label. The original point was to give women the choice, but it seems now that if you make the ‘wrong’ choice you are betraying your gender, buying into the patriarchal system, etc. At some point I may get a paycheck job and become a ‘productive’ member of society (and that can of… Read more »
Maybe one of the biggest faults of feminism was the drive to expand a woman’s choice while simultaneously failing to offer men the same advantages they were carving out for themselves. Yet men should see themselves as feminists if they support equality? I’m all for equality but, special rights and positive treatment vs extra responsibility and bluntly foul institutional treatment? No matter who gets the shitty end of the stick it needs to stop. Even the idea of feminism vs. The patriarchy sets a male=evil / female=good victorian era dichotomy. We won’t be equal until the idea that women as… Read more »
@Rebekah – a valid point about women making right or wrong choices. Let me ask you this. A married couple with NO kids. 1. Wife works, man stays home, plays video games and takes care of house 2. Man works, wife stays home and knits and takes care of house Society probably labels 1 bad but 2 okay. I think either they are both NONE of our business; however, people talk. The guy will be made out to be a total jerk. I’d say the gender of who stays home is not at all relevant. That’s why I am a… Read more »
Jameseq said earlier: “if a person accepts the label, then most people will subconsciously feel the gravitational pull of their (fmnist) terms their definitions, their parameters, and their disciplinary measures.” Now, I think that is an important point, and it’s crucial to remember this in any discussion of an ideological, political, or a theological nature: Agree or disagree with the any given premise- whoever sets the terms & the premise of the discussion controls the discourse. Whether we’re arguing that the walls in my house are painted red or painted blue, I’ve still got you arguing now in my house, about my… Read more »
a fine post mostly_123.
and your quote below, was so beautifully written.
And like any label, it’s important to know what’s in the fine print, and who is (and who is not) writing it.
I would venture to guess that if you can’t handle the label feminist you probably have some deep-seeded issues with women that prevent you from actually treating us equally. I’ve met a lot of men who told me they were totally into equality and then proceeded to man-splain the feminist movement to me and how I as a feminist was ruining his specific life by working, going to law school or just not staying at home and popping out babies in heterosexual marriage. I get it, some of the more radical feminist theory involving how men are some how ‘unnecessary’… Read more »
Also what are they really doing to you other than saying some things that you take way too personally? And what is this thing called feminist discipline? Do feminists have roving enforcers, like Dommes who beat you when you don’t conform to all of our ideas and crawl on your bellies for us? Or are you just complaining about us mocking the phrases some really douche guys use like “binders full of women”.
Kate, in answer to your question – yes there are feminist enforcers.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/26/barbara-kay-david-gilmour-has-a-point/
@ Katy There are things that feminists have done to men. Let me see if I could phrase it in such a way as to get through moderation this time. For example, the more stringent the rules protecting paternal rights, the more difficult it will be for women to make a unilateral decision to place a child for adoption. If your objective is to increase opportunities for women, how would that impact your politics concerning paternal rights? Last year the Michigan chapter of NOW opposed a man’s right to establish paternity for a child he fathered with another man’s wife.… Read more »
Also what are they really doing to you other than saying some things that you take way too personally? If it were just talk it wouldn’t be a problem. But we all know its more than that (just look at what John Anderson says below). Or are you just complaining about us mocking the phrases some really douche guys use like “binders full of women”. Funny you mention that. If I recall when he made that comment while talking about whether he had been in contact with women when looking to fill positions. In all the mocking, attacking, insulting, picking,… Read more »
” Also what are they really doing to you other than saying some things that you take way too personally? And what is this thing called feminist discipline? Do feminists have roving enforcers, like Dommes who beat you when you don’t conform to all of our ideas and crawl on your bellies for us? Or are you just complaining about us mocking the phrases some really douche guys use like “binders full of women”. ” isnt this also a form of feminist enforcing? try to convince people through subterfuges to label themselves with something their are not, and at the… Read more »
Hi Kate, You seem to be pretty angry. Hopefully you can put that aside for a moment to understand my perspective. I believe in equality, however, I don’t believe that feminism is really about equality for men and women. The name “feminism” is certainly does not equally represent males and females – it is pretty clear that it is about women and women only. Feminism does not seem to have much interest in helping men in areas where they are suffering, such as suicide, circumcision, equal parenting, or boys’ issues in school or university. That is why I believe in… Read more »
I would venture to guess that if you can’t handle the label feminist you probably have some deep-seeded issues with women that prevent you from actually treating us equally. And you’d guess wrong in my case (and I bet the same is for most of the others here). I’ve met a lot of men who told me they were totally into equality and then proceeded to man-splain the feminist movement to me and how I as a feminist was ruining his specific life by working, going to law school or just not staying at home and popping out babies in… Read more »
“I don’t blame all men for the patriarchy…” Scary……Our social system was not set up to benefit men in general……it was a way to produce and extract the maximum amount of surplus from the productive classes and transfer it to the ruling classes, be they king/queens, religions, politicians, industrialists……..and it worked. But transferring responsibility to the regular joes around you rather than the rarefied few 1%ers is projecting the “sins” of the few onto the masses that have minimal control over even their own lives.
From @Kate “I’ve met a lot of men who told me they were totally into equality and then proceeded to man-splain the feminist movement to me and how I as a feminist was ruining his specific life by working, going to law school or just not staying at home and popping out babies in heterosexual marriage. ” I think this a good point, Kate. There is a lot of resistance and explanation of why “feminism” is bad or doesn’t work by a lot of people claiming to “have no problem with chicks.” I can only identify, because I suffer from… Read more »
Edwin,
It’s a shame you are unwilling to engage in a debate with anyone who does not agree with you. No new ideas can develop in a echo chamber.
@ Edwin Lyngar “I don’t think my biases are “bad.” We ALL have them” By we, I take it you only mean men. Could one of the biases possibly be the belief that men are privileged in society? Could one of the biases reflect an inability to see female privilege? But that doesn’t quite square with feminism does it? Here’s a question. I always hear feminists say things like you have to view things through a feminist lens or some other type “lens”. Why shouldn’t you just see things the way they are? IMO that’s the best way to remove… Read more »
@ John Anderson: So, looking through a feminist lens is just shorthand for thinking about how some other “group” might perceive what you are saying. I know things like “feminist” or “eco” or “postmodern” are geek terms, but I think they are just a way to try and examine an issue in a new way. There is even (or should be) a masculine examination of things. Differing perspectives aren’t bad. @ Scott! Sure, let’s talk about it! I am willing to engage. As I said at the outset of this article, I considered myself a “masculinist” for a long while.… Read more »
“I would venture to guess that if you can’t handle the label feminist you probably have some deep-seeded issues with women that prevent you from actually treating us equally.” Isnt this also a way to enforce feminism? It reminds me the time of Mussolini. After the revolution Fascist intellectuals along black shirt activist tryed to “convert” oppositors into linking Italian patriotism with fascism (Garibaldi was a fascist, Dante was a fascist etc) and even offering them goodies, you get this good job if you publicly proclaim you are a fascist. Or religious fundamentalism where you have to convert because we… Read more »
The word “feminist” itself is both debated and derided by people who are and are not feminists—the word itself has become problematic. If you control the words people use, you can control the debate (see: George Orwell). I think the problem with so many men is that we don’t fit a feminist mold that we’ve created in our minds. Which for me sums up entirely why many people, myself included, do not identify as feminist. And it’s not for want of trying – but when I bring up the fact that I’m on board with women’s issues, it didn’t matter… Read more »
If you want the label that’s cool. But this whole “you really aa feminist but you don’t realize it or don’t want to admit it because you have created a negative image of the label.” bit has to go.
Can we at least agree that its possible to believe in equality for all without being a feminist and quit acting like that movement has some sort of copyright/patent/trademark on it?
Its not your feminist label that matters its your belief in fairness and equality that matters
I think you miss the point here; you already are a feminist if you believe in gender-equality. You may use another term to describe it, you may be a great many other things too, but none of that stops you also being a feminist. It’s like so many other words; I might not call myself a ‘dude’ personally, but if someone asked ‘are you a dude?’ than I’d say yes, even though it’s not the term I prefer to use for my gender. You don’t have to embrace the label, not in my opinion, and I certainly haven’t, but isn’t… Read more »
I don’t get why you guys are so hellbent on forcing people to adopt your label.
it’s about control diz.
as if a person accepts the label, then most people will subconsciously feel the gravitational pull of their(fminist) terms, their definitions, their parameters, and their disciplinary measures
You seem to think that feminism means equality and only equality. For many people feminism implies much more than equality and for many, feminism does not mean equality at all. From my own perspective feminism attempts to achieve equality for women by promoting only the cause of women. I feel it is a faulty ideology because equality can only be achieved by addressing the needs and deficits of both men and women. Feminism’s track record of advocating for areas where men are at a deficit is not inspiring. You may feel people are feminist because they believe in equality, but… Read more »
@ Anthony
But what if you have an issue with the definition? What if you believe that feminism as practiced today isn’t about equality? A Christian can be Catholic, Protestant, or a different denomination. They’re all Christians, but being a Christian (for equality) doesn’t make one a Protestant (feminist).
If you believe in equality between genders, then you are also an MRA. Do you happily accept that label?
While I appreciate you taking the time to respond I find a few things odd here. I think you miss the point here; you already are a feminist if you believe in gender-equality. You may use another term to describe it, you may be a great many other things too, but none of that stops you also being a feminist. This is issue one. You think as if feminism has some unique claim on the concept of equality. It is very much possible to believe and work towards equality and not be a feminist. You’re trying to make feminism synonymous… Read more »
Not gone yet but will be soon…
I’m prolife but believe in equality for women ….. so how exactly would that fit the feminist mold?
Huh?!With all due respect i hardly think it necessary to wear a label or be a part of a group proclaiming THEMSELVES to epitomize the values of freedom and equality. Neither liberals,nor conservative,nor any other group can or should make that claim.Besides,intellectually speaking,the very idea that one group over all others defines these qualities is illogical to a fault. I was doing fine without feminism and have no feelings of guilt to massage or public penance to women to make.I have the utmost faith in my ability to treat others fairly without the omnipotent presence of big sister guiding me.
Nah, not for me. I used to go by that label, but that was long ago it seems. I go by another label now.
As I just said elsewhere, I’m in. Always was.
And yes, I’m a man.