So You’re Tired of Hearing About “Rape Culture”?

 

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TRIGGER WARNING: The following includes descriptions, photos, and video that may serve as a trigger for victims of sexual violence. Please advise when sharing.

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Publisher’s Note: Comments on this post will be heavily moderated.

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Someone asked me today, “What is ‘rape culture’ anyway? I’m tired of hearing about it.”

Yeah, I hear ya. I’m tired of talking about it. But I’m going to keep talking about it because people like you keep asking that question.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, no one says, “Stop.”

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, they can’t get anyone to come forward.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and adults are informed of it, but no consequences are doled out because the boys “said nothing happened.”

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and we later find out that their coaches were “joking about it” and “took care of it.” 

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though there is documentation of the coaching staff sweeping it under the rug, they get to keep their jobs.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and one of the coaches involved in the cover-up threatens a reporter - saying, “You’re going to get yours. And if you don’t get yours, somebody close to you will.” – but the town is more worried about keeping their coaching talent than his integrity.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, take pictures of the process, and it becomes a source of ridicule along social networks, whitewashing the crime with hashtags.

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Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and then joke about it on video – saying, “She is so raped,” “They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!”, “They raped her more than the Duke lacrosse team!”, and she was “deader than Trayvon Martin.” – while everyone else laughs. (Warning: this video will make you sick to your stomach.)

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Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the town is more concerned with preserving their football program than the fact that their children are attacking others without remorse.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the mainstream media laments the fact that their “promising futures” have been dashed by their crimes – as though THEY are the victims.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though she’s been through enough, the 16 year old victim’s name is shared on national television.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, but because it happens at a party where both sexes were drinking, complete strangers on the internet argue ferociously that she is to blame for being attacked.

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Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and members of the community issue death threats against the victim.

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Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and it is documented across social media channels, and the media informs us that the takeaway is to be more careful about what we post to social media.

Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and when a cover-up is exposed by a group of hackers, we call them “terrorists” and the culpable “victims.” 

Yeah, I’m talking about Steubenville. Tired of hearing about it? Ok, let’s talk about something else.

Rape culture is when the Steubenville is far from the first instance of athletic clubs covering up sexual violence allegations. See: SanduskyMichigan State 2010Arizona State 2008University of Colarado 2006University of Iowa 2008Lincoln High School 2012University of Montana 2012Marquette 2011, plus this research (and there’s more to find if you dig)

Rape culture is when universities across the country do not report rape to the police, but handle the matter via “honor boards” - ultimately shielding perpetrators from criminal consequences.

Rape culture is when universities threaten to expel a student for speaking out about her rape (without ever identifying her attacker) because it’s harassment to talk about her suffering.

Rape culture is when a comedian has a long history of making jokes about rape and sexual assault, is defended from backlash by the comic community, and doesn’t lose his fan base.

Rape culture is when a journalist says this

I think that the entire conversation is wrong. I don’t want anybody to be telling women anything. I don’t want men to be telling me what to wear and how to act, not to drink. And I don’t, honestly, want you to tell me that I needed a gun in order to prevent my rape. In my case, don’t tell me if I’d only had a gun, I wouldn’t have been raped. Don’t put it on me to prevent the rape.

… and the public responds with this

 

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Rape culture is when politicians don’t understand how requiring a transvaginal ultrasound of a rape victim seeking an abortion is like raping her all over again.

Rape culture is when political candidates say that God sometimes intends rape, and that some girls just “rape easy,” and that “legitimate rape” does not result in pregnancy… and do not lose the backing of their party or party leaders.

Rape culture is when a speaker at a political convention makes a rape joke about a sexual violence victim advocate, and he brings the house down with laughter.

Rape culture is when we spend all our time telling women to avoid being raped by modifying their behavior, inferring blame back onto the victim.

Rape culture is when stunning displays of privilege and willful ignorance combine to create this:

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and this:

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Rape culture is when a woman speaks out about rape culture, and gets subjected to this.

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Rape culture is when we see ads like these on a far too frequent basis:
belvedere-ad
rape-jump
gross
friendzonedrink

dominos

Rape culture is when you’re tired of hearing about “rape culture” because it makes you uncomfortable, as your attempt to silence discourse on the subject means we never raise enough awareness to combat it – and that’s part of why it sticks around.

So yeah, I’m sorry you’re tired of hearing about it. But I wouldn’t expect us to shut up anytime soon. Nor should we.

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Originally published on RantAgainstTheRandom.com

UPDATE: At the author’s request, we will not be publishing comments which caveat the discussion of rape culture with false rape accusation concerns. There is a reason for this, which you can read here

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About Lauren Nelson

Lauren Nelson blogs at Rant Against The Random, a collection of the impulsive rants. "It's going to be random, opinionated, and, at times, utter nonsense. Be prepared."

Comments

  1. “…we will not be publishing comments which caveat the discussion of rape culture with false rape accusation concerns.”

    I know that “caveat”, as a noun, means “warning”; what it means here as a verb I cannot guess.

  2. I tell this again, the root problem of this rape culture is male sexuality ( what men believe about sexuality ), not violence culture. As long as men believe you need to become a ladies man, a man who can make any women want to have sex with you to became a real man, rape culture will still exist. As long as men don’t respect their own bodies and think their body is ugly and have no sexual value, rape culture will still exist. As long as men still think showing their emotions and vulnerability is shameful and not manly, rape culture will still exist.

    Its weird almost no one touch this subject when we talk about rape culture. We only tell men to respect women, to not rape women, but we never talk about root of this problem, male sexuality in society.

    • Because usually the proposed solutions are offered in a limited scope of “how can we fix this for women?”. Now that’s a good question however when asking like that you end up starting off thinking that the problems of rape culture are limited to how it affects women. And even when men are brought into the mix its usually on the premise that they need to change in order to fix it for women.

      There’s usually not much room for the fixing of things that are affecting men (which generate affects that harm everyone) for the sake of helping men out for their own benefit.

    • Hi John
      Thank you
      It is strange to read all the comments above, in fact they scare me.
      Nearly all men here are defensive instead of expressing empathy with the girl.

      Where I live, rape of men and boys are not swept under the carpet.

      • “Nearly all men here are defensive instead of expressing empathy with the girl.”
        This article is about rape culture isn’t it? Not just this girl? Men are also raised to not show empathy much so I myself FIND IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to even know how to express my empathy apart from wanting to set fire to the rapists. Your comment scares me because of your utter lack of empathy and understanding of men here and how you are trying to paint them as unempathic because they are talking about rape culture as the article suggests vs singling out her. What is it you want men to do? Say its bad what happened to her? Of course it’s bad what happened to her and I hope her rapists get the full brunt of the law against them as I have said on other articles on her case alone. On this article I talked about rape culture though.

      • Adam Blanch says:

        This article is about rape culture, the alleged culture by which men supposedly facilitate and support rape. The ‘girl’ has nothing to do with it, except as a useful scapegoat for the author to promote her sexist agenda. the whole point of the so called ‘defensiveness’ is that most men are just as horrified by rape as most women are, and we are tired o being demonised by feminists using the victims of violent crime for their own political agenda. SO what you are saying is that men being angry about being stereotyped and labelled as monsters is proof that men are monsters with no empathy.

  3. A quick question.
    I get the sense that the issue of rape culture is worse in the States than here in Australia. ( I am not saying it doesn’t exist here though). The States pays so much more attention to high school and tertiary sport. Plus the States have that weird mix of cheer leaders and sport that provides a very gendered dynamic.
    What are your thoughts on the dangers of providing these aggrandizing environments for pubescent males? Do you think it makes it worse?

    • Cam, that’s a really interesting insight that I never thought about.

      I think if kids are brought up in a healthy environment with mutual respect for both genders, a very gendered dynamic, shouldn’t matter. I don’t think the heavily gendered dynamic is the problem. Boys playing football and girl cheerleading isn’t the issue. There is a reason boys tend to gravitate toward football and girls toward cheerleading. Boys and girls are different. But I think it’s the lack of respect for each other and our different skills and gifts that’s the real issue. And that problem starts with adults and what we are or aren’t teaching our kids about one another. The issue starts when male sport figures are given free passes because of their skill. Both by men and women alike. IThe issue starts when adult men, in an attempt to bond with each other or younger boys, talk demeaningly about girls and women. When they talk about women like they are pieces of meat. The issue starts when adult women roll their eyes or put down what men like condesendingly in attempt to bond with other women or girls.

      If boys and girls, men and women truly respect each other and their differences, then highly genderized environments shouldn’t be so tricky. We would be able to celebrate and enjoy our masculine and feminine differences and energies. But unfortunetly, I don’t see alot of respect for each other and our differences. There is a lot of sexism that exists in the world. And there is a lot of sexism that exists in high school. Especially in sport situations. But I don’t believe it’s because of what boys and girls may be more inclined to participate in. I think it’s because of we still don’t know how to respect each other’s different skill sets. I bet a lot of people don’t have as much respect for cheerleading as a sport as they do football. When both should be respected for their different skills by men and women, boys and girls alike.

      I acutally think providing environments where boys feel free to express themselves is positive when the adults in the environment are healthy themselves. When you don’t have coaches and teachers and parents upsetting the balance by giving too much power to kids. And that’s the problem. The kids reflect our society, not the other way around. If these kids are looking less empathetic toward others, are abusing each other, it’s not because kids are terrible. it’s because they learned those things from the world around them.

      • “If boys and girls and men and women truly respect each other and their differences, then highly tenderized environments shouldn’t be so tricky…”

        Interesting thought….a bunch of my HS FB friends and I have been getting together and sharing odd stories about how some of our most respected and beloved teachers from our very liberal, elite NYC magnet school were a bunch of secret perverts….there were stories about teachers trying to ask for dates, inappropriate touches, and come-ons….shocking stuff! In retrospect, it does make you wonder about those unspoken entitled, sexist attitudes that filter down from our teachers and parents and infect the students, no matter how liberal or how enlightened the high school fancies itself…..

    • Adam Blanch says:

      Cam, culture is only a weak contributor to violence (but don’t tell the feminists, they’ve built their empire on the idea that culture is the only cause of human behaviour). These environments do promote violence but not because they promote gendered role stereotypes. They put large groups of young people together where pack mentality, sexual arousal and alcohol combine to promote our more primal behaviours and dis-inhibit our more civilised ones. You see exactly the same behaviour by women at male stripper nights, foot ball matches and any environment where one group is dominant. It’s just what humans do when they forget to be evolved.

  4. Mostly_123 says:

    It is not wise to debate anyone who has already appointed themselves as the paramount arbiter of what is and what is not rape culture. And what is and what is not the nexus of maleness within that culture. 

    I tend to believe the debate (if there is a debate) is less about ‘rape’ but more about ‘culture’ – that is, about the power to define & collectivize what constitutes ‘culture’ arbitrarily. A man or woman takes up a paint brush, a pen, a videocamera, a megaphone, or a gun: What will they do with it? But more importantly to this discussion, when then, are they representing themselves as autonomous individuals, and when are they representing their collective race, class, ethnicity, gender, ideology, political collegiate bodies, or ‘culture’? Everybody wants to be the arbiter, because they see themselves as a just and impartial arbiter; and no one wants to be the appellant. 

    When the notion that ‘the personal is political’ is taken to its logical extreme, then no crime, no offense, no speech, no individual sleight, no advertisement, is ever autonomous or apolitical when more than one gender is involved. If that is so, then there is a moral equivalence between a sexist poster, comment, or attitude -spoken or unspoken- (however arbitrarily one defines ‘sexist’) and the physical act of (or the omission of action to prevent) rape.      

    But if not, then it is not necessary to find a point of conjunction of culpability between Daniel Tosh, a Colt 45 malt liquor or a Red Lobster ad, and Steubenville to resent and abhor of all of them. It is only necessary if one seeks to rationalize ALL of one’s disapprovals as all collectively & objectively (rather than subjectively) morally equivalent.

    There seems to be a logical fallacy at play there – that once anything is declared to be part of the collective whole of what constitutes rape culture, then to question or deny that individual item’s correlation to rape culture itself is therefore proof, of and/or approbation of rape culture itself. ‘You’re with us, or you’re with the rape culture.’ It’s a shortcut that lets’s one label anyone else as an apologist or a denier.    

    One may consider a culture ‘profane’ and render one’s own judgment collectively upon it, or selectively upon elements of it. This though, is different from arbitrarily defining what elements constitute a culture and then calling that culture collectively amoral or illegitimate, along with all dissenters to that opinion. (‘You’re either with us or you’re against us”). Historically, this is not how a wise partner treats their ‘allies’ – because it’s a poor way to win friends and encourage neutrals. 

  5. Adam Blanch says:

    When I was 20 years of age I worked as a glass collector in a night club that had a weekly male stripper night where hundreds of girls gleefully congregated to get very drunk and watch men dance naked. The drunker they got the more violent they became, until one night one of the girls grabbed me by the throat from behind and forced me backwards onto a table, 6 of her friends held me down and another girl started to remove my clothes and tried to initiate sex with me, until security arrived to intervene. No one was charged with assault or attempted rape, they weren’t even thrown out of the club, and all the girls thought it was great fun.

    What the author is calling rape culture is actually a result of pack mentality, a regression to a previous evolutionary stage in human consciousness that can be witnessed in most species. When a group is dominant (and therefore not accountable or restrained by their social group), dis-inhibited by alcohol, and sexually aroused they tend to regress regardless of whether they are male or female. You can see this at any football match or ladies night. This is human behaviour that has little or nothing to do with culture or gender.

    Th author only calls it rape culture when it applies to men, conveniently ignoring the reality of female rape of men and of other women (The Lesbian population has the highest incidence of sexual assault of any group, much higher than the heterosexual population and higher again than the gay male population). Why? It’s for the same reason that feminism works so hard to hide the female perpetration of domestic violence, social violence and interpersonal violence.

    Feminism’s political power is based entirely on he theory of patriarchy, the idea that violence and dominance behaviours are solely the province of men seeking to assert control and oppression over women. Female perpetration of violence contradicts that theory, disproves it really. The authors concern is not for the female victims of rape and violence, and most certainly not for the male victims of rape and violence who are deliberately not mentioned.

    Her concern is for her political agenda. She exaggerates the violent behaviours by a small proportion of the male population (making sure not to mention the same behaviours by a small proportions of the female population) into a ‘cultural’ phenomenon, by which she means to tar all men with the guilt of the few. If feminism was really concerned with ending or reducing the incidence of rape they would abandon their failed and sexist theories of cultural causation, and put their energies into evidence based responses that actually made a difference

    The truth is that rape is a political goldmine for feminism. As long as they can keep male perpetrated rape and violence in the public eye (and female perpetrated rape and violence out of it) they can use it to gather political will for their cause. Uffortunately, until we can end feminism’s dominance of this debate and public policy, nothing real can be done that actually improves the situation and makes the world safer.

  6. as a survivor of rape, i thank you for this.

  7. If you can stomach watching the video, there are some serious lessons there. While Trent is completely disgusting, as is the kid with the camera who’s egging him to keep going with his string of insults, there is at least one guy in the room who wants it to stop. He just doesn’t know how to make it happen. He tries reasoning with Trent saying “What if that was your daughter?” “I have a little sister,” “This is messed up,” “You raped a girl,” “You’re going to jail”. But Trent just keeps going with his “she’s deader than…” comments. At one point, I think I heard “911″, but no one calls. I’m also pretty sure there is talk about beating Trent up to get it to stop, but it doesn’t happen. We need to teach our kids how to effectively stand up to the Trent’s of the world and make them stop.

    • Insightful points J. And I totally agree with you and appreciate your comments because it’s not really something anyone else brought up.

  8. I’m tired of hearing about rapists and cases of disgusting and barbaric rapes all the time but until that stops, we’ll keep talking about the culture that perpetuates it. So stop the rape and we don’t have to talk about it. Simple. Only the perpetrators of this culture can stop it but they won’t. So let’s keep blasting people with it until they finally understand

    • Adam Blanch says:

      News for you Selina, you are the perpetrator of this ‘culture’, because rape isn’t a culture at all, it’s a human behaviour committed by both genders, and you are a human being. this will stop when we address the real causes of rape, meanwhile your attempts to make it ‘nothing to do with me’ are actually the problem that stops us addressing it. Rape and other violence occurs within the context of dehumanising the person being violated, and your comment is dehumanises and stereotypes men.

      If you really want to be part of the solution you will take responsibility for your contribution to violence in our culture and stop contributing to the gender divide and conversation that dehumanises men. Your current approach is like trying to stop a dog being angry by kicking it, then blaming the dog.what you are doing is not offering solutions, but merely getting off on your own self righteous rage and being part of the problem.

    • Sorry, but I think just telling people not to rape wont solve anything.

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      ” I’m tired of hearing about rapists and cases of disgusting and barbaric rapes all the time but until that stops, we’ll keep talking about the culture that perpetuates it. So stop the rape and we don’t have to talk about it. Simple. Only the perpetrators of this culture can stop it but they won’t. So let’s keep blasting people with it until they finally understand ”

      You are right, lets just tell people to stop rape. Why didnt we did that sooner? *sarcasm*

      Telling people to stop rape wont accomplish anything. And the subject need more debate, since it is to much female centric. When we have uncovered all the possible facet’s and causes, then we can move in the direction of efficient rape prevention and eradication.

      • Mostly_123 says:

        @ Mr Supertypo,

        You may be righter than you know.

        Not to long ago I came across a very interesting article that was linked through cracked.com – it was about racism (“5 Weirdest things that can cause you to be more racist”) rather than sexism – but I wouldn’t be surprised if similar human dynamics come into play. The gist of the article is that some of the things that we might think can have positive effect for fighting racism actually have the opposite effect; and end up provoking more racism. They cited a study done at the University of Toronto Scarborough (in essence it seems to show that brow-beating doesn’t work- even when the message is just and credible)

        Here’s the link for the study, called “Ironic Effects of Anti-Prejudice Messages”:

        http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/ironic-effects-of-anti-prejudice-messages.html

        Or if you want the short, sweet version, here’s the original article that linked the study:

        http://www.cracked.com/article_20348_the-5-weirdest-things-that-can-cause-you-to-be-more-racist.html  

        Basically, they summed it up for me when they said: “Above all, we just don’t like being told what to do. Even if the thing we’re being told makes perfect sense.”

        Again, they were looking at racism rather than sexism, but think that human dynamic is very much the same.  

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          I dont have the time right now to check the links you posted, but Ill do as soon I have, so I bookmark them for now.

          Yes I agree with you, but I dont think the problem lies in being told what or what not to do. But rather how the message is delivered: ie : teach men not to rape, it should be instead, teach people not to rape. The first one, is incorrect, because its specific, and ignore to many dynamics and it put men on the defensive and they logically react in that way. The second instead is more general and inclusive of the various social dynamics and no category feels attacked. Therefore correct and constructive.

          But I give a look to the links you mentioned as soon as possible.

          ciao

    • wellokaythen says:

      So, what I hear you saying is that we will continue to hear about rape culture until there is no more rape in the world. This reminds me of the War on Terror. Presumably the War on Terror will be over when there is no more terrorism anywhere in the world? Sounds like a never-ending war.

      If the existence of rape is proof of the existence of rape culture, then rape culture has to be one of the oldest, most durable parts of human culture, undented for millennia. I guess that’s the good news for Rape Culture Theory as a source of emotional energy – it will probably continue to exist indefinitely. If someone makes a living exposing rape culture, that person has great job security.

  9. wellokaythen says:

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that women are the clear majority of rape victims and that men are the clear majority of rapists. Just for the moment.

    So, I’m unclear why this percentage difference actually matters, even if it’s statistically significant. Really, is rape a “majority rules” kind of issue? I don’t know if there is any other issue so hotly argued on the GMP where there is so much attention to getting the percentages exactly correct or debating whether a group of people is a large majority, slight majority, large minority, small minority, or infinitesimally small percentage. (Here is where people on both sides will reply to me by saying “they started it with their warped statistics!”)

    It sounds like people are suggesting this is a “majority rules, minority drools” kind of situation, where if you have numbers on your side you get the higher ground, and the rest just have to make do.

    Think about how it would be if we just used “the majority is what matters” as the standard for the entire issue. One could then say that the vast majority of men never commit rape, and the majority of women are not victims, so no big deal, majority rules and every other way to look at it is “diversionary” or “apologist.” That’s a really unproductive way to look at rape.

    Consider what would happen if we looked at LGBT issues that way, if it was the majority of the population that really mattered and focusing on tiny percentages of the population was just a distraction from the “real issues.” Come on, trans people are like 1% of the population, so all of this attention to their rights is just a distraction from the bad things that happen to cis people, right? That would be a pretty grotesque use of arithmetic, and one might be called homophobic to use percentages in that way.

    In a way, the rape statistics are like the unemployment statistics. If you’re out of work, unemployment is 100%, and if you have a job unemployment is 0%. If you’re a rape survivor (and not all victims are actually survivors) then the rape percentage is 100% as far as you’re concerned.

    • I guess for me, it matters because it begins to get into the whys of the issue. Why is one group more vulnerable to being a victim of certain act from another group. What can we do to identify it. What can we do to prevent it. What does society do to contribute to it. How do we get this one group that are known to be bigger violators toward another group to stop what they are doing. Tackle what happens to the majority, not because it means what happens to the minority is less important but because it gets us off the ground and moving to hopefully a more postive and progressive shift. You target what most people are affected by to begin the process because you’ll have a greater response if your target audience is big to begin with. You don’t do that because your implying that those that are violated that are in the minority don’t matter as much, but because knowing why something happens to a larger group is a good place to start.

      Maybe there needs to be a GMP experinment. People that normally side on one side of the argument need to argue the other side for an entire day of commenting, and vice versa. I am trying to picture myself doing this and I would admit it would be really hard but maybe worth it.

      I think the core issue is neither side feels heard. What I have observed on GMP is that when there is an article about male rape victims, the comments are about male rape victims. The problem male rape victims face. As it should be! When there is an article about female rape victims, the comments are about male rape victims and how men don’t get aknowledged enough for the issues they face regarding rape. Women don’t feel like they are being heard. Men don’t either. And that’s the real problem.

      Maybe feminism largely recongnizes that women are raped but I am never really left with the impression that it’s something men want to recongnize. A lot of men largely want to talk about other men that are raped, they are tired of talking about women that are raped. They are sick of hearing about women that are raped it seems. But I think men do that because of their own pain. Just like women do. But it doesn’t get us anywhere.

      From a female perspective, here you have this story of this 16 year old girl that was abused and violated, and this story isn’t really old news because we’ve all heard something similar to this story before of a lone girl getting violated by a group of boys or men, and the only thing a lot of men want to address is specific to male rape… on the backs of stories of female rape. So when GMP talks about male rape, male rape gets discussed. When GMP talks about female rape, male rape gets discussed. I don’t think men want to acknowledge the amount of violence and degradation that happens to women. Look at the pictures provided in this article. The violent sexual images geared to women, calling a woman an idiot on a poster…..using the murder of women as sexual titulation. I am sure there are some ads out there doing the same to men. But there is a reason why women are more often portrayed this way than men are. What that reason is, I don’t really know. I rarely see men on this site directly address the issue of female rape. They either want to talk about male rape, or not mention gender at all.

      • As it should be! When there is an article about female rape victims, the comments are about male rape victims and how men don’t get aknowledged enough for the issues they face regarding rape. Women don’t feel like they are being heard. Men don’t either. And that’s the real problem.

        Wrong.

        When there is a topic about rape as a whole and it’s turned into “rape is a women issue”, for sure you’ll have people calling it out.

        It’s as if we had an article about murder, just murder, and someone said “it’s a men’s issue”. Murder is a human issue, even if men are more victims.

      • In this comment, Erin, you repeatedly mischaracterized the discussion “men on this site” are having as trying to steer discussion away from female rape to that of male rape. I don’t know if it’s deliberate or not, but what you’re completely ignoring is that the core issue in this discussion isn’t male rape or female rape, it’s that piece of feminist theory known as Rape Culture. It’s right there in the title, and then spelled out in the post in an impressive display of truthiness. I mean, it just feels so true, doesn’t it?

        I don’t think it would be a sexist or troubling thing if men on a men’s site wanted to :gasp: talk about male rape, but what you have in this and similar threads are men arguing that among other flaws, the theory of Rape Culture does not adequately include or address rapes that don’t fit the female victim – male perpetrator template. I hope you and others can understand that people can be and are horrified by what happened to the Steubenville girl, without accepting Rape Culture as the one true explanation which shalt not be criticized.

        • Contrary to what you would like to believe ove me Marcus, I do not think it’s sexist or troubling for men to want to talk about male rape. The part that becomes troubling, although I don’t believe it’s purposely sexist, is when men don’t want to ever address female rape. And my comments are pretty clear about that. I did not just make a comment about men wanting to talk about male rape. I made an observation about how I’ve seen conversations come down under certain articles. And I will restate it because I’m not sure you understood what I was trying to express. When I see articles on GMP about male rape, men want to talk about male rape. When I see articles on GMP about female rape, men still want to talk about male rape. Just because this is a website for men, doesn’t mean that the conversations men have shouldn’t be of women sometimes.

          Whether there is a rape culture or not, is up to each individual to decide for themselves. But whether you believe in it or not, there are very specific problems regarding rape and how men and women treat one another. There are very specific problems of how sometimes young men choose to express themselves sexually. A group of boys gang-raping a girl isn’t really new news. Teen girls arne’t little angels and they face their own concerns but it is pretty prevelent to see groups of men or boys get into a pack mentality that become violent or sexually degrading to others. I do not understand why this isn’t something men don’t want to talk about. You can talk about the issues concerning male victims of rape. And you can also talk about the issue concerning female victims of rape.

          I remember being back in grade school and the boys being very sexually pushy and aggresive at that age. I remember the girls going along with it because it was usually the popular boys who got away with the most. There were always popular girls but the popular boys where who ran the school. They made comments freely about girl’s bodies infront of all of us, who was pretty, who was too fat..it was a game for the boys to run around snapping our bras and hings like that. You’d go to a party and they would have some hardcore porno on. It made a lot of the girls feel uncomfortable but none of us spoke up. We didn’t want to be the dude that didn’t want to do what the cool boys wanted. This is a big problem. I believe it contributes to a culture that still values male sexuality over respecting others.

          • “I believe it contributes to a culture that still values male sexuality over respecting others.”

            I disagree. Replace “male sexuality” with “hegemonic masculinity” and you’re on to something, though.

          • “I remember being back in grade school and the boys being very sexually pushy and aggresive at that age. I remember the girls going along with it because it was usually the popular boys who got away with the most. There were always popular girls but the popular boys where who ran the school. They made comments freely about girl’s bodies infront of all of us, who was pretty, who was too fat..it was a game for the boys to run around snapping our bras and hings like that”

            I have no idea how close we are in age, but when I was in grade school the girls were just as pushy. They would chase the boys around, sometimes just playfully, but they often tried to kiss us and I remember on 2 separate occasions a girl slapping my ass. Once we got into middle school, the girls became a less aggressive and it was the boys who did all the unwanted groping. But both genders would stand around in the open commenting on who they did and didn’t find attractive. The boys were a little more crude about it, but the girls did it just as openly. By high school when people had become sexually active, I remember on multiple occasions hearing girls openly talk about about the penis sizes of the boys they had been with, smirking about those not well endowed or who simply weren’t good in bed.

            • Jack, I can understand wanting to share your own experiences, but at the same time, I am left with the impression that I am not really being listened to and my experiences are being written off because you really want to talk about yours instead. You are very careful to say that the boys were a little more aggressive and crude but at the end of the day, you clearly believe that everything is still equal. Sharing my experiences wasn’t an attempt to say little girls are perfect and boys are horrible. I however thing we do have an out of balance culture that sways in favor of masculine ideals. Which I DO think is harmful to men and women alike.

              Girls chasing boys around in grade school (while maybe not the best situation? I don’t know) doesn’t seem like the same thing to me as boys and girls hitting puberty and getting unwanted groping. I grew up with an older brother and was use to playing with boys and getting knocked down in rough housing. However, after puberty, all of us were more aware of our bodies and the rough housing stopped and getting knocked down by a boy took on a whole new meaning. I guess for me, things appear more serious once kids hit puberty and start looking at things through a new perspective.

              I still maintain the fact that in high school, boys ran the show. Even over the popular girls. Which is why male sport figures get away with so and we don’t see as much of that among female sport figures. Which is also why even in this most recent case, you even have other girls calling this girl that was sexually abused a slut. I think that’s just as much a problem as anything else.

            • Erin, I wasn’t ignoring your experiences at all. The reason why I brought up your age relative to mine is that I was wondering whether or not what you speak of is a generational thing. You were talking about rape culture and how that affects the way males behave, citing your experiences at school as evidence. Now I’m a pretty young guy, but many of the actions you mentioned the boys doing when you were in school was also done by the girls at my school. As I said a lot of the chasing in grade school was playful, but there was sometimes unwanted kissing and groping involved on both sides which I would say is the sort of sexually pushy behavior you alluded to in your post. Once middle school came around and the girls started to develop all of the characteristics that men go nuts over, I fully acknowledge that pretty much all of the groping was done by the boys as the girls became less aggressive. But the standing around talking about who was attractive and who was ugly often right in the presence of the person being talked about? Both genders did that. Yes, the boys were more crude in that they would fixate more on the girls’s body parts, but the attitudes amongst the genders were the same. And as I said, once we got into high school talking about penis sizes openly became fair game. I personally knew 2 boys who became the target of teasing once word got around from the girls that they weren’t well endowed.

              So rather than ignoring your comments, I’m comparing our experiences and wondering if maybe we’ve come farther as a culture. In the past women were not allowed to as openly sexual, but now that they are the behaviors that you described as being primarily male are no longer so. And as far as who “ran the school”, I feel like it was pretty equally done between the boys and the girls, especially once high school came around.

            • Grade school, ages 4-11 maybe 12, high school ages 12-17 maybe 18. Big difference.

              You implied huge sexuality run amok for 5-12, who would do something with bra straps. Most girls don’t wear bras at 5-12 (it’s not physically needed until the breasts are actually heavy enough for it to matter at all – with my 34A I can gladly go without, even for sport (though I might consider a sports bra for jogging and such)).

              Bras in the 12-18 age range sounds reasonable, as is sexuality actually being on display, and adults being all “kids will be kids, let them tyranically bully each other in a socially Darwinistic way where the non-assholes are punished for being too weak”. Sexuality is just an element on top of this.

              Popularity is everything in high school, even if you’re counter-culture or a pariah – the Cool Kids TM, will still have a stranglehold on you, even if you don’t want to go to their parties, be in their gang, or help them in any way. They can bully you regardless.

          • Whether there is a rape culture or not, is up to each individual to decide for themselves. But whether you believe in it or not, there are very specific problems regarding rape and how men and women treat one another.

            Oh, if only it were so. That first sentence matches my opinion that rape culture is a faith-based concept, not an empirical one. So, if you believe it, all data fits the model no matter what, because ideas founded on faith can’t be falsified. I agree with the second sentence, too, that there are problems regarding rape and how the genders treat each other, regardless of whether you believe in rape culture. I also agree with what that implies, which is that there are solutions worth investigating and trying, regardless of whether you believe in rape culture. This take-it-or-leave-it notion of rape culture as one possible way of regarding the problem and approaching solutions to it IS NOT how it’s presented here at GMP or elsewhere in the feminist blogosphere.

            It’s not just “rape culture” — it’s Rape Culture. If you don’t accept it as the only valid way to think about and discuss rape, that makes you a heretic, only in this religion, heretics are called rape apologists. If you “decide for yourself” that Rape Culture is much more an ideology than a theory in the scientific sense of the word, the Rape Culture faithful *will not let you* talk about rape, its causes, or possible solutions in any other way. I don’t just mean they’ll get angry and post contrary posts. If you have any sizable platform at all, they will target you for a take-down. Harass you, your site, maybe call employers to try to get you fired, etc. GMP attempted some discussions of rape not long ago that were not molded out of Rape Culture clay, and several take-downs were attempted, they lost at least one blogger, and they continue to be ripped in the feminist blogosphere for it, even though by any non-women’s studies standard, you could not find a more feminist men’s site on the web.

            I do not understand why this isn’t something men don’t want to talk about. You can talk about the issues concerning male victims of rape. And you can also talk about the issue concerning female victims of rape.

            But see, you’re still talking about rape. This discussion isn’t about rape, it’s about Rape Culture. It’s like asking why people aren’t willing to have a wide-ranging discussion about morality and ethics if the ground rules include agreeing that it all starts with the Ten Commandments.

            • wellokaythen says:

              To be fair, the author does warn us on her blog:

              “It’s going to be random, opinionated, and, at times, utter nonsense. Be prepared.”

              I don’t get the sense that she would include this article in the “utter nonsense” category, but I don’t see why we can’t call it nonsense if she admits she writes nonsense sometimes.

          • Adam Blanch says:

            Erin, you talk about ‘culture’ as if there was only one, and generalise your personal experience into the global without the slightest evidence. There are many cultures, even within small geographical areas, and to subsume them into a single construct denies the human rights and validity of others.

            For instance, if I were to look at feminist culture (which is quite diverse of itself) and generalise that to the entire female population, I would have to conclude that women are man hating sexists driven by the desire for dominance and control and utterly careless about how they got it. Then I would be called a misogynist, but I get called that anyway.

            As an explanation for human behaviour social constructionist theories of culture as the primary deteminant are a spectacular failure – they just don’t stack up against the evidence. Human beings behave in human ways, and cultures, gender and attitudes have very weak impacts on that. there is no one ‘culture’ to blame for what people do.

      • “They are sick of hearing about women that are raped it seems. But I think men do that because of their own pain.”

        I don’t think it’s that. Frankly, many of us are tired of “Rape Culture” being a euphemism for “The way men think rape is okay because they run the world and everything is always awesome for them.” We’re tired of about hearing about how Men are Awful and Abusive and Rapists and Oppressors, about the Great Patriarchy Conspiracy, about how Women Always Have It Worse.

        We’re tired of hearing that “Men think women’s bodies are communal property!” and “Men don’t respect women!” “Men think rape is okay!” “Female rape victims deal with bad stuff, I don’t see male rape victims getting it as bad!”

      • Thank you for saying this, Erin…

        It does seem sometimes that the comments are seemingly divided into (1) TEAM MEN: those who support male victims and (2) TEAM WOMEN: those who support female victims…

        I agree that there is a lot of defensiveness on this site, when perhaps a word or two of empathy for the “other team” would suffice…instead of turning it into the Rape Victim Olympics….

        As it is, my HS friend and I discussed our teenage kids recently while waiting on line at a concert…he is not letting his beautiful 11th grader go on any dates during HS (her school’s track team just had two teammates arrested for hazing and digitally violating freshman on the team)….Meanwhile, I warily watch my son walk and hang out on Main Street in our town with his 12-13 year old friends (both boys and girls) and ponder if I will be as strict in monitoring his whereabouts when he gets to be as old as my friend’s 16 yo daughter….

        How do we prevent another Steubenville here in our own hometowns (even when we live in NYC and thereabouts)?

      • Erin:

        What I have observed on GMP is that when there is an article about male rape victims, the comments are about male rape victims. The problem male rape victims face

        Let’s look at one of those articles:

        http://goodmenproject.com/on-rape-and-sexual-violence/male-rape-survivors-and-victim-blaming/

        A woman commenter found that article to be the appropriate place to bring up the issue of false accusations.

        Later on there is a queer woman writing about how she was raped by another queer woman. Aside from the first woman commenter questioning her rape there was no “what about the wimminz” invectives thrown at her. James Landrith – the male survivor who wrote the article – told her that she was among allies.

        Another female commenter wrote about her rape. She wasn’t told off for doing so.

        This commenter made sure to tell how extremely rare female rapists were compared to male rapists.

        • Adam Blanch says:

          Nothing rare about female rapists. Studies with college goers find that just as many boys report being pressured and forced to have sex as girls do. 50% of women in the lesbian community report having been sexually assaulted by another woman. I personally experience rape twice as young man, two different women deciding to have sex with me while I was in a drunken coma. One I had never met and the other had made advances which I refused earlier in the night. Funny how when men talk about their experience of rape on this discussion, no one wants to go near it.

      • wellokaythen says:

        I’ve seen examples of the phenomenon you’re talking about, where someone is talking about women victims and someone responds by focusing on male victims. Sometimes that appears to be an attempt to shift the discussion onto a more male-centric point of view. I can see how someone might think that’s somehow dismissing women victims.

        But, many times the responder brings up male victims because an article or series of comments seems to be stuck in the male perp/female victim model. Then the response is just an attempt to add some balance to the discussion. Sometimes that attempt to add balance comes across as a little hostile, admittedly, but I think we can all agree that tempers have a way of flaring when someone feels like there are millions of victims that seem to be ignored. (Even if they aren’t actually being ignored, just not talked about at that moment.)

        What I hope to see more in debates about rape and culture is to look at even larger cultural forces that cut across gender lines. If there is a rape culture, it’s something that maybe victimizes men and women at different levels and in different ways, but it victimizes both of them. It’s part of a larger cultural system that (sometimes) celebrates violence, sexual dominance, the body as a disposable object, and sees sexuality as forbidden, dirty, and mindless. Rape culture makes fun of all sorts of victimization of all sorts of genders. (“Don’t drop the soap!” Hilarious, right?)

        What many men on GMP are annoyed with is the way that analyses of rape culture tend to reduce everything down to the standard male perp/female victim structure. It’s especially annoying when there’s a clear example of a very different situation that is then turned around to support the standard portrayal.

        For example, the image in the article of a woman on top of a man with the caption “getting jumped in an alley has never been this much fun.” I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that the author would say that this ad makes light of women being raped. But, it’s an image of a man getting jumped by a woman and the man enjoying it. The idea that it’s fun for a man to be jumped by a woman sounds an awful lot like a rape culture protecting female-on-male rape, but here I imagine it’s used to show how awfully misogynistic rape culture is. So, even when it’s a suggestion of a woman assaulting a man, it’s still about men assaulting women. Arrrg.

        And no doubt many men on GMP would rightly point out that “getting jumped in an alley” does not just mean getting raped, so it’s overly narrow to refer to it in terms of rape. They would rightly point out that, if you include non-sexual assaults, “getting jumped in an alley” probably happens to men as much as or more than women.

  10. Hi Erin

    Thank you.
    You expressed this so well. This my thoughts to. I I agree!

  11. Markku Hänninen says:

    Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, they can’t get anyone to come forward.
    Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and we later find out that their coaches were “joking about it” and “took care of it.”
    Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though there is documentation of the coaching staff sweeping it under the rug, they get to keep their jobs.

    I do acknowledge that what you describe as rape culture exists in some parts. For example i think rape culture is victim blaming “why did you wear slutty clothes” etc. if someone is raped(tried to think most clear cut case). But i always get annoyed when all the things in the world are rape culture.

    There are 3 reasons taken from your posting as example that i don’t think are rape culture in any way. Why do i think that? Because all those reasons have in common that they would probably happen even if we change the crime. Tight group of people tend to protect themselves and there can be huge social pressure against doing anything that goes against the group. It doesn’t matter what the crime is, the same behaviour can be found. Same might be said about the latter two. While there is possibility that the coaches just approve raping drunken girls and thus make it rape culture, i seriously doubt it. They protect the team regardless of the crime. If the team had beaten up a bum, the reaction might have been exactly same.

    So while i think i do know what rape culture is, i think the word is used much too freely and it eats the effect and usefulness of the term when it is used to describe everything that happens.

    • Georgina says:

      “Tight group of people tend to protect themselves ” like the catholic church?
      Now there is a rape culture for you – in fact almost all religions blame the raped person

  12. Hi Jacobtk

    Let’s talk about rape of men!
    Who stops the info reaching our media?

    Here is my person experience.( I am a woman) ,
    In the eighties in worked for a while in a high security prison for men. A prison with many murderers.

    The night I sat down and read all the files about crimes they had committed.

    I was stunned.
    Many men had murdered another man after he had been raped by him.
    I can not give details.

    But I knew these facts are deliberately kept away from us. Why ? And by whom?

    But

  13. Julie Ann says:

    I live in Hawaii, and things like this don’t happen where I live. The town is small, and Hawaii is very different from the people that live in the states. The only crimes that happen frequently here are people that smoke weed, miss jury duty, or they get arrested for drunk driving.

    I didn’t want to read the article, and I didn’t. I read a few words, but I knew that if I read everything, whatever is on my desk would be broken.

    Even though I do not live in a violent place, I’m hyper-vigilant. I don’t walk with my head down. I look at everyone in the face, and I don’t smile. I walk with a proper posture, and I slide my keys between my fingers when I walk to my car. I look behind me before I unlock my door, and I look around again when I open my door to sit in my car. I also look in the back seat and I lock the door once I’m inside.

    I don’t go to clubs to drink, and I don’t wear provocative clothing. I prefer shirts, and I make sure to workout my arms and legs. I wear flat slippers, never high heels.

    To the women/men that have been attacked before: I’m so sorry. Don’t believe all men are like that, and some men are raped, too. It’s not only something that can happen to women. Everything will be fine.

    To the women/men that have attacked: I hope you burn in hell. I hope you die alone, and I hope you die in pain. You should be ashamed of yourselves, and you’ll get yours in the end. You’ll get yours.

    • Julie Ann, if these things don’t happen where you live, why the need to be hyper-vigilant?

      You fail to miss irony in your comment: Your need to protect yourself enforces the author’s main point, which is that rape culture puts the onus on the woman (in most cases) to prevent rape, and is blamed if she does not, rather than raising our sons to believe that violating someone in unacceptable. Most rapes are not done by the stranger hiding in the bushes. It is committed by men (in most cases) who grew up in a culture that told them to expect unfettered access to a woman’s body.

  14. Adam McPhee says:

    If telling men “not to commit rape” would stop rape, why hasn’t God telling man “thou shalt not kill”, not stopped murders?

    • To a large degree it (or other forms of this ethical injunction) has… it isn’t the case that one in six people have been murdered.

  15. Not buying it says:

    I am not a rapist, none of my male friends are rapists either & I am sure of it otherwise we wouldn’t be friends, is there Sicko’s or just plain violent men sure there is I ‘v even met & known few murderers here & their in forty years , never met a rapist though, does it happen?? sure, but not even close to your ideology claims the the numbers are!!! There is a lot more scientific & reliable sources that dispute your claims & I tend to believe them.

    • Janedoe says:

      Well we are around (left overs from broken society) and they exist http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/MTMT00069453/Frank-Eugene-Johnson.html hes the first one to get a ranking of 3 and got out 7 years early of one consequitive count. He had three but two he didnt serve.

    • wellokaythen says:

      Realistically, it’s more accurate to say *as far as you know* none of your friends are rapists, or that they wouldn’t be your friends if you knew that they were rapists. It’s almost tempting fate to say you don’t know any rapists. There are plenty of rapists whose friends and family didn’t suspect a thing….

    • You have no idea what your friends have done. Just because they haven’t told you, doesn’t mean they haven’t done it. And just because a woman doesn’t tell someone she has been raped, doesn’t mean she hasn’t been!

  16. Rape is despised by most people. There may be a small subculture of very loosely organized memes about rape, but to generalize that to “we have a rape culture” is hyperbole. The idea that men are callous towards rape belies the fact that men have mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters, none of whom he would want to be raped. Most men are naturally providers for and protectors of women, so again this doesn’t square with reality. But perhaps the hyperbole is necessary given the seriousness of these crimes. Please note however that the hyperbole itself is not victimless as it effectively stereotypes and demonizes men and male sexuality.

    • 1. “The idea that men are callous towards rape”

      Rape culture is not solely perpetuated by men, and the author never said that anywhere.

      2. ” belies the fact that men have mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters, none of whom he would want to be raped.”

      This right here is a perfect example of rape culture. Women must be placed in direct relation to men to justify why they don’t deserve to be raped. Perhaps in a society WITHOUT rape culture, people would talk more about how women deserve better than rape because they’re human beings.

      3. “Most men are naturally providers for and protectors of women, so again this doesn’t square with reality. ”

      What is your source for this? Also, did anything the author wrote claim that most men DON’T protect women? Or are you just assuming this to be true?

      Clearly what most people see as a statement of fact in this article you see as hyperbole, but only because you jump to conclusions about everything the author writes.

  17. Janedoe says:

    I do not accept my cultures response to my life. I do not accept being told because I was sexually assaulted as a child I am not a good parent. I do not accept , middle class ignorance of my mom told me not to talk about it , and so its not real. I do not accept , being told I am a liar when I reach out. I do not accept years of therapy teaching me not to be a victim. And having my community terrorize me , because I see another child of circumstance victimized. I do not accept , being ostrasized and question as though anyone in any authoritarian position has ANY CONCEPT of the walk of the raped. As though your classes in trauma can come close to walking away from the memories of what is , what has been and what will always be. I do not accept my community telling me I can NOT HELP ANYONE ANYLONGER BECAUSE i AM NOT BY THEIR IGNORANT UNDEREDUCATED , SUPER INTELLECTUALLY RETARDED STANDARDS. I will not accept having my FAMILY TORN APART because I spoke for a child who did not speak. I spoke for the child who I was , for my child who will be and I stood up and I said I , too am Jane doe. And I am 21 years old in the case histories of Jane doe’s I am an Amendment in the Wetterling act , I served my country as a child and I helped change sex offender laws to create a registry. And I will not accept my community slandering me. I will not accept being shamed , and I will not accept my child being taken away from me because someone caught wind of my words and didnt like them.

    • Adam Blanch says:

      Dear Jane, obviously not your real name.

      Your rage in response to your abuse is natural, but when you turn it into a philosophy, a lifestyle and an identity you render yourself useless to all other sufferers. Your words say that you will not accept victimisation, but you have no control over victimisation, only over whether you become a victim.

      You do not have an exclusive license on trauma, many people have gone through what you have been through and far worse. It is not being victimised that determines whether you remain traumatised and whether your life is disabled by your experience – it is whether you choose choose to remain a victim, stuck in hopelessness and rage. No one can deny you the opportunity to help others, they don’t have the power, but you cannot help others until you have moved beyond your rage. The unhealed cannot bring healing.

      Going on your post, all you have to offer right now is anger, blame, punishment (revenge really) and continuing hurt. “Justice’ will not stop rape from happening, never has. What will stop rape and all violence is our society evolving to a place in which people do not feel powerless, because that is what creates violence. It is what created the violence against you, and it’s creating your violence against others.

      I have great empathy for your experience, I too have been through childhood sexual abuse and violence, and I have spent my time consumed by rage, but right now you are part of the problem, not the solution. Heal yourself first, then help others.

      • Jane Doe says:

        I think that your systemically an issue on perception. I can not define an entire life in a paragraph. I can not define an entire personality , in a sentence. Life is about perception. What you see is the sum of catalyst of an event. Your answer is your perception= of your view of that event from “your eyes” and not always is the truth , going to be your truth. I am not angry , angry is a waste of money. I would be hurt. Angry is a waste of therapy. Hurt is the underlying issue. Stating any ideology of exclusive license on trauma would be the innuendo I have lived my whole life in the spot light of “victim” another misconstrued disassociation , from the application of I am who I am. You projecting your underlying psychological issues on me , but stand up and saying , I too , am a Jon Doe. But you have choosen to use me as a stepping stone. Once again , the issue is I do not accept my community using me as a victim. Try this , its feels good, I am , I , I . And drop the you. I can speak fine for myself. I appreciate the candor , I appreciate the advice. One hand your giving it, the other , … dot dot dot.

  18. Jane Doe says:

    I just wanted to take a moment , and address the text book psychology of Jon and Jane doe’s. We have read , we have gone to therapy , we have applied what we learned from the social heirarchial past generation of the effect and affected. They did not speak. So , I do not have my picture up. Oh , well. But moving on twards rape culture.. did that therapy really work for you , just want other Jon and Janes to think on it. Did it really help you over come the abuse? I , constantly battle societies rules. I , constantly ask “who told you that?” , “where did you read that ?” and most importantly “did that work for you ?” these are the questions you need to address when ” trying to heal” . See our issue is we are living in a constant state of dated life. Studies on psychology are from 1940 , (most up to date Kaufman , lol) our state demographics for bmi are from 1920′s , our information for health for both men and women still comes from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_papyri and yet our children are genetically evolving , and our minds have developed twice as fast intellectually and technologically faster , each generation more than the next. I ask you what is it that you have done for yourself psychologically that has a benefit for you and the future generations besides reading what was laid out before you , and never thought more of it. When I say systemically I mean the main stream type of thought is we accept what we are told , because we accept what we learn. But Jane and Jon Doe’s think of it like this, and others , the person that assaulted us , didnt they too , tell us it was ok? Its not about revenge its about change. This is 2013 and its about time we start living in the here now. Starting thinking about tomorrow. We are never going to get that far if everything we base our lives on , is from a generation who cant remember their names. No offense intended just a couple of thoughts on you , you , you. (Me)

  19. http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1122345-who-failed-rehtaeh-parsons is this the society you speak of , when you say , when you judge , when YOU DECIDE that it I , or we , them who should walk away? Is this ok with you? Is this what Rape and Crises abuse was intended for? Is this what you mean by ignore our children? What is it you really think? What is acceptable for your OWN children?

  20. Christopher93 says:

    So it seems that America’s “rape culture” is entirely connected to America’s bizarre obsession with and fetishization of their high school and university sports teams.

  21. Deb McManus says:

    You’re tired of hearing about the rape culture? Then do something about it. Teach your sons not to rape, teach your daughters to demand respect. And most off all stop blaming the victim. When you do, you ARE the problem.

  22. This may be controversial but it’s pertinent to the topic so here goes. Several of my past girlfriends have told me that they have a rape fantasy and have wanted me to fulfil the fantasy through sexual roll playing.

    I’ve always felt weird about it so I’ve never actually gone through with it. My question is; is it okay to role play a rape fantasy if it’s between consenting adult who are in a committed relationship? If so, does this contribute to rape culture?

  23. also, here’s an interesting article that ran in an Australian website recently – http://www.mamamia.com.au/social/sexual-assault-and-alcohol/
    worth a read

  24. kirstensara says:

    Thank you. Really brave, powerful, and important piece.

  25. This is really disgusting. women- young girls- blamed and called sluts for what? Drinking (maybe their first drinks) and falling asleep. Women/girl: drinks and is called a slut/whore, Boys: RAPE someone and are sympathesied with for being punished. It didn’t ‘just happen’ to them, they actively chose to rape and use an unconscious person! That these people exist in America, who immediately think women are to blame and are sluts for drinking, or even just ‘getting raped mean they must be sluts,’ I agree, is ridiculous! What if a man got drunk and passed out and was raped, would he be a slut?
    The boys committed a crime, a horible crime, and they are considered victims, for being punished for their crime, crazy.

  26. The writer does a good job demonstrating there is a ‘rape culture’ inherent in our sports institutions. This is a valid problem that needs to be addressed.

    However, she utterly fails to demonstrate there is a ‘rape culture’ in wider society. A few off color ads and politician gaffes does not meet the high burden of proof required to prove the existence of a rape culture.

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  1. [...] get a full breakdown of the photos, video, and timeline of events, see So you’re tired of hearing about rape culture? Warning, graphic. Because, you know, the girl was [...]

  2. [...] So You’re Tired of Hearing About “Rape Culture”? The Healthy Sex Talk: Teaching Kids Consent, Ages 1-21 What Happens When We Don’t Teach Our Boys About Sex [...]

  3. [...] then you need to read “So You’re Tired of Hearing About Rape Culture?” with commentary at The Good Men P…, [...]

  4. [...] So You’re Tired of Hearing About Rape Culture? [...]

  5. […] comment was written in reply to a post at Good Men Project where the author listed up a long list of examples of rape culture, some of […]

  6. […] A response to “What is ‘rape culture’ anyway? I’m tired of hearing about it.” […]

  7. […] 2. Deny that rape culture exists and shift sympathy to the falsely accused. While false rape accusations can and do occur, using this issue to circumvent the much larger problem of actual rapes being covered up as “proof” that rape culture is a myth is a red herring at its absolute worst. Caroline Kitchens also demonstrates that she does not understand what rape culture actually is—not just rape itself, but the downplaying of street harassment, the underreporting of sexual assault, the media-perpetuated myth that all rapists are strangers in dark alleys, and so much more. […]

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