Julie Gillis wonders if it’s possible that one of the defendants in Steubenville didn’t realize the violence of what they did to an unconscious girl.
Trigger warning for pretty much everything.
Prosecutors may get conviction in Steubenville rape trial, but it will come at a cost.
From Yahoo! Sports, Prosecutors may get conviction in Steubenville rape trial, but it will come at a cost:
“Well,” Westlake said, “it wasn’t violent. I didn’t know exactly what rape was. I always pictured it as forcing yourself on someone.”
I’m gonna quote that again.
“It wasn’t violent. I didn’t know exactly what rape was. I always pictured it as forcing yourself on someone.”
Is this where we’ve come as a people, that getting a girl either so drunk or roofied isn’t violent? That carrying her around while she’s puking isn’t violent? That ejaculating on her while she’s passed out isn’t violent? That penetrating her with your fingers as she’s blacked out isn’t violent?
Putting parts of your body into someone who isn’t capable of participating isn’t force? Sharing photos of the assault? Texting pics with friends of her?
It’s kind? It’s gentle? It’s peaceable?
This quote frightens me more than anything I’ve read about the entire case. And I’ve read a lot. And written plenty.
EVERYTHING ABOUT IT WAS VIOLENT.
Their words. Their texts. The photos. Their laughter and callous disregard are the DEFINITION of violence, interpersonal violence, violence of the body, mind, soul hers and quite frankly, THEIRS.
This is what we need to teach boys, girls, people NOT to do. I don’t care what gender is acting this way, or complicit in the other gender doing it, or hiding in the shadows, or acting out violence in a wide variety of ways based on gender, or culturally sanctioned modes of violence, I don’t care.
Teach people what violence is and teach them to stop it. This whole culture is steeped in it.
I don’t want to blame things like Grand Theft Auto or Saw or Hostel, but I do also want to look to a culture that thinks torture in war is A-OK, that guns should be the answer to rape, that torture porn movies make millions, and I’ve got to wonder what the fuck is going on. Not that violence didn’t exist in earlier times, but still. And I get that many of these boys had been raised in football and so “violent” might mean “bash the opposing side down” but come on, really?
He didn’t know? Or else he did, and was just plain lying. Either choice is horrifying.
Next week, I’ll have a post up about violence, bystander intervention, teaching compassion and heroism instead of backing down and giving into group authority and why the concepts of “good” and “evil” are part of our problem.
Originally appeared at JulieGillis.WordPress.com
If boys and men are taught that only the physical matters (which would explain why boys and men are so obsessed with measuring their penises) then there is no hope for anyone if that is the only thing that is valued. If she doesn’t look injured, then to them, she’s not. They have no idea of what something like this can do to someone mentally or emotionally because they are still being taught that it’s ‘woman’s stuff.’ Like if you don’t see blood or a cut, the person isn’t damaged. WRONG. They are really failing in sex ed classes if… Read more »
He knew it was wrong….he’s back-peddling. Unfortunately for him it’s too late. Damage is done. He cannot ever come up with an excuse that would EVER make this ok. Period.
I wonder how men views about their own sexuality are also the roots of this problem. Majority of guys never think their body have sexual value to women. Ever heard of men saying this? ” How come all women are not lesbians, because men bodies are ugly, disgusting, while women bodies are hot”. ” who want to see men naked? Our body is ugly”. I heard it all the time. Most men never think their body have sexual value. The sexual value of a man is not their body, but their action, to make women, as many as possible, to… Read more »
John, as someone who loves men’s bodies and has actively sought male partners, it breaks my heart to hear that you were told such things. Many women do truly love sex with men, and love men all of men, their bodies, hearts and minds. “And thats I think, the root of this rape culture. Because they never think and respect of their own body as a sacred, vulnerable places, not to enter by anyone without our permission, its difficult for many men to respect women bodies either.” Men’s bodies should be (and are) as sacred as women’s bodies should be… Read more »
I’m sorry to broke your heart with my post Julie, because its not my intention. I don’t think those views are women fault, because usually its men who told this to other men. But I think some straight women also influenced by this view, because I have heard several of my female friends saying female body is much nicer to look at than “blocky, hairy” male body. Well its not surprising because we heard this all the time from parents, teachers, and media. And I do think this believe also created strong homophobia among straight men ( what kind of… Read more »
I wonder how men views about their own sexuality are also the roots of this problem. Majority of guys never think their body have sexual value to women. Ever heard of men saying this? ” How come all women are not lesbians, because men bodies are ugly, disgusting, while women bodies are hot”. ” who want to see men naked? Our body is ugly”. I heard it all the time. Most men never think their body have sexual value. The sexual value of a man is not their body, but their action, to make women, as many as possible, to… Read more »
Well maybe our parents should teach some of our kids that when they push up against boundaries they sometimes get a bloody nose…or worse. But it could be just the wicked culture…always a difficult thing to punish or even call to account.
US culture has a problem with the prevalence violence in our media because of the country’s puritanical beginnings. I believe the majority of parents who are terrified about their kids seeings sex or anything related to sex in the media are the same ones who don’t have a problem with their kids seeing violent movies and games. I know, my mother was one of them. I could watch a movie of any rating as long as it was “just” violence”. If there was a love scene it was deemed “inappropriate”. Because we can’t talk about sex in a healthy manner… Read more »
I think it starts with the boys equating masculinity with the amount of sexual activity that you have. It is exacerbated by the idea that a lack of a no equals a yes. They are taught to push boundaries. Consent doesn’t need to be enthusiastic, but it should be affirmative. If a woman is not injured then she must not have said no.
Yep.
I think the first step in all this, which I think comes long before girls/women come into the picture, is to address the fact that boys/men are taught that having sex with girls is a defining part of manhood. Getting that under control would make all the “teach men/boys not to rape” talk a lot easier I believe.
I think that sex is a defining part of manhood, in the sense that it’s generally a defining part of adulthood. But I agree that we need to change what we teach boys and men about it. Instead of treating it as a sport where you score points off the opposing team (women), we should stress that quality, not quantity, is what matters, that being a good lover is more important than being a prolific one, and that getting consent is an integral part of good sex. It’s often more effective to teach people what they should do rather than… Read more »
But based on that then a guy who is not anyone’s lover and is not sexually active (or has never been active) would have that held against him as proof of not being a man. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for teaching men and boys about sex and love (and I’m a firm believer that that has to start with men and boys themselves before women/girls even come into the equation which is why I find it odd that most efforts to fix boys usually center around women/girls but oh well). But what I’m saying is that in the… Read more »
I don’t for a second believe that Westlake actually thought that what they were doing was okay. Something tells me that if the perpetrators were asked to imagine themselves as the victims of parallel actions, they would recognize them as violence. I think what we have here is the death of empathy, the elevation of sociopathy as a social ideal.
Thank you. Not only did they know what they were doing but that comment of ignorance is actually confirmation of that fact. If they really understood the ramifications of their acts they would need to be on suicide watch right now. If anyone can’t see that I can’t help you.
Thank you. Yes
@ Rkahendi
Some of the comments on social media were critical of her character. I want to make sure I stress that regardless of the truth, it in no way justifies what was done. Some of the loss of empathy could be because they didn’t view what they were doing to this particular girl as being as bad since she had a reputation. Would they have done this to a girl with a better reputation? Would that cost them support within the community?
I think this attitude is probably partially the result of what our society tells boys and men about emotions – that they don’t matter, that they’re something to be ignored or hidden. A lot of guys disregard emotional trauma, believing that mental or emotional pain is less “real” than physical pain. This both leads them to not take care of themselves psychologically, and to not think about when they might be inflicting mental or emotional pain on others.
Now, that’s obviously not the only factor in these guys’ actions. But I suspect it played a role.
Agreed. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those guys really did think that as long as she was not physically harmed then what they did was okay. I wonder if this could (at least partially) speak to the mentality of rapists that use drugs/alcohol as a tool to diminish the capacity of their victims. They may figure that since they aren’t struggling and fighting they can reduce physical damage and thus make it out to be “not as bad as beating her up”.
They might also think that if she’s unconscious and doesn’t remember it, then it didn’t happen. It doesn’t affect her.
Morgan, that is an incredible insight.
I truly never thought of it like that before. They’re taught their internal, emotional pain doesn’t matter, so why would it matter to anyone else? It’s like the opposite of teaching empathy.
“Like the opposite of teaching empathy.”
Exactly. It’s my belief that most of the pain that men inflict on other people starts with the pain they inflict on themselves. (That’s probably true of women as well, but I think it tends to manifest in somewhat different ways.) If you can’t cope with your own feelings – if you can’t even cope with the fact that you have feelings – how can you consider the feelings of others? I don’t think it’s impossible for a repressed person to act with compassion, but it’s a lot harder.
It is a great insight and furthers my thought that feelings and feeling them, teaching how to process them, is vital.
You nailed it, Julie. Great post. Maybe the guilty verdict that just came in will be a watershed moment, a precedent and a deterrent.
I talk openly with my 7th grader son about certain news items…sometimes he will hear a certain word on television and he will ask me about it…I speak quite frankly about things with him…he is of the youtube/Smosh/Ray William Johnson/Ryan Higa generation….there is nothing left to hide….If I don’t discuss things with him, he can see the videos of the boys talking trash about the rape (and they used the word “rape”) and the news items at the click of a mouse…. He understands what those students did was wrong and that none of them tried to help that girl….My… Read more »
Julie, I think when people think of “violence” they have a vision that the victim is beaten, gagged and held down etc. Because violence is believed to be “physical,” I’m sure the defendants attorneys are grabbing at straws so as to bring doubt into this. Nonetheless, IMO, not having these acts of physical violence, doesn’t make the event any less violent.
An important thing to remember is that girls and boys are raised very differently, and “violence” to a boy or young man means something very different than it does to a girl. Consider the different levels of violence boys are subjected to in everything from school sports to toys and games to witnessing the callous disregard society has for male life on TV and in films. How many gratuitous, and even comedic deaths and assaults depicted in films are committed against men? How many are commited against women? It must be at least 95% male – which would be consistent… Read more »