Mark Greene thinks we have arrived at the cultural tipping point.
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The New York Daily News is reporting today that Love and Hip Hop: Hollywood star Ray J’s girlfriend and co-star Princess Love was arrested after allegedly beating him up. The Daily News is reporting that she allegedly screamed, “I’m gonna kill you,” as she attacked the singer, leaving him with broken ribs and a torn ACL.
The Daily News writes:
The incident apparently occurred last Wednesday when the “Love and Hip Hop: Hollywood” star returned home after spending the night at a strip club with TV producers, law enforcement told TMZ.
The singer told cops his girlfriend attacked him, which resulted in several cracked ribs, a busted lip and a torn ACL.
Someone allegedly heard her scream “I’m gonna kill you” at Ray J, but cops weren’t called until a hotel security guard saw the singer bleeding, according to TMZ.
Love was reportedly charged with domestic abuse and battery.
Things have changed and yet, a lot of old nasty narratives remain.
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Please note the frequent use of the word “alleged” here. We do not have the facts in this case. We can not say for sure what occurred. We may never know. But what we do know is that this story is now splashed across the gossip media landscape, triggered by an initial post on TMZ.
Did Ray J somehow deserve this? No. And have we finally put an end to this kind of question when men are abused? Perhaps so. Things have changed, and yet, a lot of old nasty narratives remain. For example:
Take a moment and listen to how the “Male DV is different” rationales can sound.
- “Ray J is a man. He can defend himself.”
- “Ray J deserved it, he was messing around at a strip club.”
- “Ray J, like most men, is a heart breaker. She want crazy, but what woman wouldn’t?”
- “Ray J and Princess Love are black, and black people, especially in Hip Hop culture, are violent.”
Another subtext that can linger: “This doesn’t happen to men too often, so what’s the big deal?”
Here’s the big deal. This is a direct quote from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey: 2010 Summary Report
More than 1 in 4 men (28.5%) in the United States have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime.
That’s 44 million men. Think about it. 44 million. The numbers for women are even worse. But the way we deal with male victims of domestic violence leads to silencing and to shame for them.
The way we deal with male victims of domestic violence leads to silencing and to shame for them.
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In our culture, if a man strikes his wife and she reports it, the consequences can be immediate and catastrophic for that man.
If a women strikes her husband, and he reports it, are the results as significant? Or is he viewed culturally by the cop on the beat, as somehow lacking something integral to being a man? Is he viewed as weak? And are weak men viewed as not quite deserving of legal recourse in the same way as a women who, by definition, is defenseless? In a nutshell, the cops (as representatives of our culture’s most blunt social priorities ) may have very clear training and orders on how to deal with a husband beating his wife. But, by virtue of our system’s lumbering bureaucratic priorities, what training has he or she had to deal with a women beating a man? Very little. And so, they take a report and walk away shaking their heads.
I can tell you that I have seen this gender imbalance around physical abuse play out first person. A very kind and gentle friend of mine had the side of his face torn open by his wife on the day of their son’s first birthday. Apparently, the house was not ready in the way she expected. I was at his son’s first birthday party. He was not. When I saw him days later, he showed me the claw marks on his face. This was a serious open wound.
My friend made one thing perfectly clear. He knew that if he did anything in the moment to retaliate physically, he would lose access to his son. He took physical abuse from his wife for years after that before the marriage finally failed. And he never raised his hand back. He is not a violent person, but also, the knowledge that a potent legal double standard exists was never far from his mind. When the marriage ended, he was stuck holding the alimony and child support bills. I would not relate a story like this if it were not the god’s honest truth. The stakes are too high here. The implications too immense.
Stanley Green, Director of Intimate Partner Violence Prevention at the Men’s Health Network in Washington, D. C. has this to say about why men don’t seek help when they are victims of domestic violence:
It is no surprise that most male victims of intimate partner violence are unwilling to seek help, when all of the outreach on intimate partner violence which they have seen or heard places them solely in the perpetrator class. For decades, the training provided to law enforcement officers, prosecutors, attorneys, mental health professionals, and others reflected this societal stereotype.
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeAdvocates worked for fourteen years to get a nondiscrimination clause into the primary Federal law addressing IPV, which is still entitled the Violence Against Women Act. Until these systemic biases are thoroughly corrected, most male victims of domestic violence, sexual assault, stalking, and teen dating violence will continue to feel like there is no safe place for them to turn for help.
Ray J is facing the storm of publicity over being an alleged victim of intimate partner violence. It is no doubt prompting people to make all kinds of assumptions. But what I’m seeing on Twitter is pretty promising. Perhaps we are finally moving past the assumption that men are always the perpetrators of domestic violence. Check these tweets out:
Everyone laughing at Ray-J cause he got beat up by a female, but if he would have beat her it would be world war 3… pic.twitter.com/52fZq7bezK — TheOne (@JeremiusMaximus) February 17, 2015
When Ray Rice beat up his girl the whole world stopped when Ray J got beat up everybody laughed why is it that way — King Amusa (@JumpManZ) February 17, 2015
ray j got beat up and got laughed at. dv seems to only be an issue when men beat women. not the other way around. — Shover Todd (@Smooth_Orator) February 17, 2015
Are we actually laughing that Ray J got beat up by his girl, since when did domestic violence become funny??
— Joey Merlino (@Jay_SaidIt) February 17, 2015
Domestic violence is not acceptable either way. What happened to Ray-J should have never happened. At all. — A$AP Fro_ (@delafro_) February 17, 2015
girlfriend beating Ray J to a bloody pulp is funny but when Ray Rice knocked out his girl, damn did Twitter get so anti-abuse so fast. #js
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— ❁ february24 ❁ (@ichizoba) February 16, 2015
So where does this all leave us? The tweets above are signs that the issue of domestic violence has hit a tipping point. Not only in terms of how seriously our society is taking domestic violence , but also in terms of the degree to which we are willing to include both men and women in the population of DV victims.
High profile domestic violence will keep being reported. It won’t be going away any time soon. So, how will we go forward when we learn that a man is a victim of intimate partner violence? Will we honor their story and offer them support, or laugh at them?
God willing, we’ll support any victim, regardless of what gender they are.
Women need to be taught how to not be abusive.
The problem is that women don’t want to realize there is a double standard when it comes to domestic violence. There are women who say they want to be treated as equals to men, yet they don’t want to suffer the same consequences as men. If women know that men are stronger than them, then why attack men? Women say men should walk away, but they shouldn’t be surprised if a man hits them back. I’m sick and tired of women making excuses for themselves and our society making it okay. The hypocrisy needs to stop. Women need to ‘Woman… Read more »
So I would like to get a consensus here … Are we at a tipping point? Personally, I don’t think so.
We may well be at the tipping points as to men’s opinions about men who are abused by women…….but, among women’s views as shown here, not so much. Sad really….Men wouldn’t understand what it like to be beaten by a larger stronger person…..like how sons are more likely to be beaten by their mothers than daughters are? I guess that is extremely rare …… just me and just about every man or boy I’ve ever spoken to about it……..inconsequential…….just need to Man up.
Nope.
His injuries were severe and couldn’t really be ignored. If you ant to know where male DV victims stand, I’d look at Kelly Brook and her endorsement deals. They don’t seem to have gone away even though she has admitted to hitting two ex-boyfriends (although I can’t find her commercial on skechers so what do you make of that)?
http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/31/kelly-brook-admits-she-hit-two-of-her-ex-boyfriends-ahead-of-book-release-4851996/
http://blog.skechers.com/?s=kelly+brook
And they damn sure haven’t slowed down the career of Mary J Blige who once hit her man at a party and taunted him by saying, “What are you gonna do? Chris Brown me?”
I don’t really subscribe to the view that every abuser should be made into a pariah, and that the only acceptable outcome of a DV situation is the dissolution of the relationship and the perp doing hard time. Abusers are not throwaway people. As long as they are not posing a threat of more than nuisance injury to their partners, they are committed to seeking help, and their partner is willingly choosing to stay with them on the basis of informed consent, then the couple should be supported and the abuser should not be criminalized.
@ Chet The comment was made in the spirit of the topic, which is essentially are male victims of DV being taken seriously. In the case of Kelly Brook, she has admitted to abusing two ex-boyfriends. She felt comfortable enough to write about this and laughing about it in interviews. Skechers didn’t feel the need to publicly distance themselves from her even though she was publicly being touted as the “face” of the company prior to the controversy. Of course people could always change and maybe she didn’t realize it was wrong until she got a little (very little) criticism… Read more »
I didn’t realize she had minimized her abusive behavior. I guess Sketchers has let a teachable moment slip past.
No, I don’t think abusers should be turned into absolute pariahs either, assuming they’re making effort to reform.
At the same time, when men like Rice and Brown have their names dragged through the muck very publicly for beating a woman, and women like Brook get squat by comparison when they beat a man, a social reaction other than “nothing” towards abusive women would be a start.
I had no idea the number was that high. That’s shocking to me.
Michele, to begin, I am so sorry you had to endure such pain and suffering to an abusive man. It sounds terrifying, and I think any sensitive person wishes and prays for your full recovery. With all due respect, your narrative here comes straight out of your trauma, and is not totally accurate. There are a number of things you are not taking into consideration. #1 it doesn’t make a hill of beans whether a man is physically stronger, faster, and bigger than a perpetrator. When an individual is under attack, the limbic system and frontal lobes are hijacked by… Read more »
Greg…thank you for the nice sentiments. Very much appreciated. I’m sorry that you were victimized by someone stronger than you and hope you are doing better now. I will say that my husband was NOT abused as a child. My “narrative” does not come out of my abuse. It comes from the mouths and/or teachings of several experienced counselors. I also said that I do not condone violence in any way. I do not have a “barbaric ethic” and I never once “declared open season on men.” I’m not going to post anymore comments on this story. It’s very triggering… Read more »
Greg, couldn’t you have expressed your opinion on the subject without being dismissive toward Michele’s? Several men here mentioned their trauma and experiences and you didn’t tell any of them what you told Michele about her “narrative”. Which was to basically say that what she had to say wasn’t a worthy contribution because her experiences have colored her view point. And your experiences haven’t colored yours? Or mine? Or anyone else here? All our stories affect our point of view and perspective of the world. Had you found a way to express your view point without being dismissive to Michele,… Read more »
Dear Erin, I totally understand where you are coming from. We do need to keep folks in the conversation if we are to ever work through the issues here. That said, I would add that Michele was “dismissive” (your term not mine) toward Greg’s experience before he ever entered the dialogue by stating that what she is hearing about men (experiencing DV) is “shit”. You can not fault Greg for taking issue with that level of generalization. It is painful to hear as a man and, all things being equal, I think Greg was thoughtful and balanced in his response… Read more »
Mark, I assumed that certain things I said made it clear that I wasn’t faulting Greg for him countering Michele’s response. Based on these quotes: “Greg, couldn’t you have expressed your opinion on the subject without being dismissive toward Michele’s?” and “Had you found a way to express your view point without being dismissive to Michele, she might not have felt she had to leave.” and “ I understand your point of view..” – I thought these communicated that my problem wasn’t with his response. Although, I do think it matters that men are physically stronger and faster. I just… Read more »
Dear Erin, Frankly, your position utterly baffles me. Yes gender specific sites can be challenging in terms of how people of the opposite gender are ganged up on. I have seen this as well. But I think Michelle’s post was particularly challenging. She came in “hot”. Not responding to any given comment. Not having been ganged up on and then getting frustrated. She came in with a direct attack on the idea that men are ever beaten up by women. Declaring that the basis for our article was “shit” and that we, as men, could never understand how it feels… Read more »
Bravo, Mark.
Hi Erin, I believe I wasn’t writing very lucidly in my response to Michelle’s posting. I didn’t mean to imply that she was “playing the victim”, which would be to say that she was milking her experiences in a disingenuous manner to try to play for people’s sympathy. I’m sorry if that’s how it came across. Her posting emphatically indicated a belief that, as a woman, she has no hope of keeping herself safe from an abusive male domestic partner. I meant to say that this perception of inevitable defeat in a DV situation is not objectively accurate. Further, it… Read more »
@ Erin
I know you get irritated when the conversation is about women and men introduce their own experiences. Could Greg have been coming from a similar place. Although I believe that the more voices in a conversation the better, I’m not convinced that Michele came here to have a conversation. It feels like some people just have an issue with male victims being recognized.
So when are you going to ask the same of Michele for saying this, “I’m sick of hearing this shit about men. Men have no fucking idea how it feels to be smaller and weaker and actually afraid rather than just annoyed by someone putting their hands on them. ”
Greg was making due with what he had in the form of Michele’s statement.
Yeah, it’s really just the opposite. Most men are experts in how it feels to be smaller, and weaker, and quite afraid. We’re also not allowed to be victims about it. Boy up or man up is the order for the day. I think this is one reason many of us are quite angry about domestic violence towards women. On the other hand I suspect versions of the violence committed against us in turn creates domestic abusers among us. And so it goes…
Which men here are posting a one sided gendered narrative about women the way Michele is about men, Erin?
No-one is actually doing that, only pointing out that such a way of thinking cuts both ways. In actual fact the men here are being far more open about this problem than Michele is, they acknowledge that strength isn’t uniquely gendered.
Yes, it is entirely acceptable to dismiss such ways of thinking. It doesn’t matter if you were abused, it is not an excuse for prejudice. Period, no exceptions. Her experiences are one thing. Her extrapolations are something else.
A woman should NEVER put her hands on a man in anger, no matter what he either is doing or what she perceives he is doing. SHe should walk away, run away, lock herself away, whatever she needs to do. All it takes is one hit the wrong way and he is dead.
Mark…clearly, you did not absorb anything I wrote.
No, it’s just that your argument doesn’t do anything to change the correctness of his statement. No-one must abuse anyone, and your insistence that abuse ismagically different based on gender is an insult to the victims of women abusers.
My comment below is exactly what my trauma and abuse counselor said to me about the difference between violence by men towards women versus by women towards men and just to note, I am a woman and I am a victim of domestic violence, which is why I am seeing that counselor. Also to note, my abuser is trying to discredit me and claim that I was abusive, which is not only false but totally impossible. I am small and weak. He is strong and intimidating. I could never hurt him and he was never afraid of me. I pushed… Read more »
With all due respect, I think what should (or what does) preoccupy most people is the nature & physicality of that one particular person (man or woman) who is beating them, and not the correlating superficial traits (like race, class, gender, nationality, sexuality, etc) of all the others who do not. The most significant & binding trait that the violent share is not their gender, but their violence. Wounds are individual & personal- once inflicted, their severity does not hurt proportionately more or proportionately less because of larger societal correlating demographic mitigation or amplification. I’m less concerned & aggrieved about the… Read more »
Dear Michele, I am deeply sorry to hear that you have been victimized by domestic violence. I want to acknowledge your story and your point of view here, because to do otherwise would subject you to more of the same. I want to suggest however, that your experience of DV, while absolutely complete and true for you is not a basis for truth for the entire world. You write: “I’m sick of hearing this shit about men. Men have no fucking idea how it feels to be smaller and weaker and actually afraid rather than just annoyed by someone putting… Read more »
My one Aunt is all of 4’10” tall. Her husband is 5’10” tall. My Uncle is one of the kindest, most gentle men I know. None the less, on occasion we would see him with a split lip, a ‘shiner’ or maybe a cut on his cheek or forehead. He would say that he “walked into a door” or something, but no one believed him. So, as you stated , size isn’t always a factor. What’s not stated here is the damage emotionally done to the children. my cousin , who was built like my aunt, and had a temper… Read more »
I agree with most of what you are saying. My problem is that no benefit comes to anybody from making the blanket generalizations that you make. Not all men are capable of defending themselves against their wives and girlfriends. When they are abused, their abuse is no less painful than when a woman is the victim. Ray J’s ribs are no less cracked than yours just because he is a man. Many men do know exactly what it feels like to be beaten up by someone larger and stronger. We were all little boys at one point, and many of… Read more »
Chet…I am the very opposite of “destined to be a victim.”
If you want to analyze me, please have much more info than two comments posted on GMP. Feel free to contact me.
I’m sorry, Michelle. I didn’t mean to sound like I was analizing you. I didn’t really say what I meant. What I intended to say was that, contrary to your statements, neither you nor any woman has to accept inevitable defeat in a violent situation. Self defense is a complex topic I can’t get into here, but if you want to take control of your own safety, you have the power to do that if you have the will.
@ Michele Sorry you had to go through that, but your experience doesn’t change mine. I broke up with a woman once and she tried to claw my eyes out. I was fast enough to duck my head back so she didn’t get my eye, but I got 4 deep scratches on my cheek, which drew blood. I restrained her hand and then caught the other when she tried it again. For the record, I would considered being blinded as a serious injury. Going to work the next day and having to explain what happened to my boss was no… Read more »
I’m sorry you had to go through that but this incident with Ray J does nothing to silence or make what happened to you less worth addressing. All anyone has to do is look at that infamous Ray Rice video. There is no discussion. She hits him outside the elevator and he looks nothing more than annoyed and like is is swatting away a fly. Inside the elevator, he hits her ONCE and she is out cold and has to be dragged out of the elevator. ONCE. With all due respect are you trying to say that the fact that… Read more »
It’s funny how you identify the actual factor in play as strength, and then immediately reframe in terms of gender.
If strength is the problem, then let’s view the problem in terms of strength. If we’re going to ignore women and how they use their strengths to abuse men, because “men are stronger than women”, then we’ve a problem there.
And believe us, we’re sick of that shit too.
Heaven forefend that men be allowed to talk about male domestic violence victimization on a men’s site without someone coming in to remind us, again, what domestic violence is like for women.
You sound like my abuser, Michele, she thought that since she was a “weak little girl” she had the right to injure me. Her weapon of choice was blunt objects. I needed stitches.
But, nah, height is all that matters right?
It is long past time that “hen-pecking” became unacceptable. I have not been surprised to hear about the recent studies indicating that women are the primary aggressors at least as often as men in domestic violence situations. It agrees with what I have seen with my own eyes in other peoples homes and in public, and what I’ve experienced in my own life. I lived for three years with an abusive girlfriend. As with many men in that situation, for me the use of violence in return was off the table. I know very well what I’m physically capable of.… Read more »
The problem is that a lot of people keep trying to treat DV as a special case or a special kind of crime separate from others, when it shouldn’t be. Forget for the moment about whether it’s “domestic violence” or not. The gender of the two people should make absolutely no difference. Battery is battery. It’s not one kind of crime when two people know each other and another kind when they’re strangers. If the allegations are true, she committed a violent crime. When he went to the Emergency Room, no one there asked him who beat him, because that… Read more »
Sadly Mark I think given who quickly this has not ignited I think the answer to the question in your title is no.
I agree with you Danny. Though if you look REAL close you may be able to spot some progress, it’s in millimeters while we have kilometers to go. At 60 years old, I seriously doubt I’ll see the acceptance that Mark speaks of in my lifetime. I can only hope that some day, for the sake of my Son’s and Grandson’s generation, we get there.
Yeah that’s what we have to shoot for. I’m only 34 so if the powers that be are willing I’ll be among the last of the old men who will have experienced that lack of acceptance.
thanks for writing this. As someone who has been physically abused by a girlfriend I’d like to see more compassion and empathy from both men and women on all cases of domestic violence.