What’s Missing From the Discussion About Male Sexuality?

Rachel White wants to hear about the aspects of male sexuality that don’t get discussed.

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Never ask a guy to braid your hair. A study just came out that suggests men feel angry when made to perform a “traditional feminine task” like, apparently, hair braiding. The researcher suggests this is because men are expected to gender perform in ways that women don’t have an equivalent; they must constantly “prove” their masculinity. While it’s not easy equating the ways that sexism effects men and women, rigid gender roles don’t help anyone.

But I am writing about this male phenomenon as a woman. And most of my sex positive blogging peers are also female. It almost seems there is some silent rule: men aren’t allowed to write about sexuality, as though a guy with a sex blog is the intellectual version of a flasher. It’s another way sexism harms men.

In these sex positive discussions, there is so much I want to hear from the male side, so much about masculinity that needs exploring. And this is how The Man Project was born. I asked men who are vocal about sex and asked them what was missing from the discussion about male sexuality. After talking with a handful of men from varying backgrounds—literature, art, porn, television—here’s a sampling of what I found. Feel free to weigh in and continue the discussion in the comments section below.

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How do you feel about your masculinity? Is this important to you?

David J: I think there’s an interesting cultural struggle around masculinity going on. At least judging by the advertising that’s targeting my demographic, like the Old Spice commercials. There’s this sense that masculinity, as it’s traditionally articulated, is problematic. So, masculinity isn’t something we seriously address. Also, it’s not something that’s presented to us in a serious way, it’s presented to us comically.

So, my friends and I, when we act traditionally masculine, we are both performing and making fun of masculinity–but we aren’t examining it. And we end up expressing our gender that way. It’s not, “I’ve thought a lot of masculinity and other forms of gender expression.” Instead, it’s, “The way I relate to my masculinity is by making fun of masculinity. And other than that, I don’t really know how to deal with it.”

Michael: The one thing that absolutely bugs me in the gay world is the question of, “Are you a top or a bottom?” It’s really, “How masculine are you?” If you want to see how masculinity and femininity are played out in the straight world, you only have to see how it is played out in the gay world. Top and bottom is really nothing but masculine and feminine. In ancient Greece and in Rome, homosexuality was accepted—but only if you were the top. The proscription against homosexuality was not about men having sex with men. It was about men not acting like women.

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Why is the sex writing, sex positive sphere dominated by women?

Michael: When I was selected to be the co-host of Sex Inspectors, they didn’t come out and say, “We want someone who is gay,” but they did more or less. I think the idea was if a [straight] guy talks about sex to a woman, there’s a sense that there is a hidden agenda. Which is a nice way of saying, “He is predator-like.”

Grant: We think there’s something gross about reading about a straight guy and his sexual experiences. Women are given great sexual latitude to do a number of different things—bondage, kinks, even lots of different vanilla sex. Men are really sort of reduced to just wanting to fuck something, and that’s it. Sexually, we are forced into a box and not allowed to express ourselves in many more ways than society allows.

David S: I think the critique and developing analysis of women’s sexuality came out of the feminist movement to a large extent. So, that would explain the critique of traditional thinking about women’s sexuality in general. It’s too bad because I think traditional gender roles in sexuality are just as limiting and damaging for men.

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There is this idea that male sexuality is different, simpler than female sexuality. It’s just a button to push. Thoughts?

David S: I used to run a workshop on male sexuality for women. One of the most common things that women would ask is, “So I’m with this guy, we have amazing sex and then in the morning, he is like gone.” I think guys think they are just gonna have a fun time. Because sex is as powerful as it is, sometimes a big door opens up inside you. Suddenly, your emotional guts are all over the table. Sex, touch, it is powerful in that way. Suddenly, you are dealing with the fact that you never got touched as a child, suddenly you are dealing with the time something happened and you were embarrassed. Suddenly, all sorts of larger issues, even existential ones leap up, and there you are in the middle of them.

I think women are more prepared for this, less frightened. For some guys, in this deeply intimate exposed place with a person they hardly know, they wake up in the morning and start putting a wall up, really fast. One of the sad things about sex, particularly for men, is that the culture shoves a version of sex down your throat that is just a poor, pale version of what is really possible.

Buck: I think and act and interact totally different from how I did when I was female and had little testosterone in my body. Even though I was a very masculine female. But I was much more sensitive, I cried easier. I looked at things differently, my sexuality. My sex drive was intense for a woman. But I would say it is much more intense now.

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What about male stereotypes like guys being “less in touch with their emotions”?

Eon: In a breakup, for example, I think women have a lot more coping mechanisms that society supports. Men are expected to not care and move on. I don’t know what’s going on at the Moose Lodge and I’m sure that some of those brothers are helping each other out. But in general, it’s hard to help another man emotionally. It’s a pride thing and a societal pressure not to.

Danny: There has been so much discussion over how women are treated, or how women feel when they perform in pornographic scenes. But heterosexual men seem to have been left out of this discussion. Maybe even gay men too. “How do male performers feel about performing in sex scenes?” It’s not a question often asked. I think it’s just assumed we want to fuck anything that’s put in front of us. I assure you that’s not the case.

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What about the one, guys are just “thinking with their dicks”?

Zak: So, guys can be extraordinarily smart in order to get their dick to have what they want. Like, right now we’re talking on a telephone. You’ve got Skype. My guess is that both of those things were invented by guys who thought that if they could invent something cool, it would make them rich and famous and get them laid. So Alexander Graham Bell wasn’t maybe thinking with his dick but thinking really helped his dick out.

Women are a complicated target. You have to really do all kinds of crazy shit in order to impress them or to get them to know you. And so, you know, men invent computers and airplanes and socks and healthcare because, like, you can’t have sex with women when they’re dead! We’ve really got to keep them all alive.

Eon: In my youth, the idea was that no girl would want to look at a dick—the dick is just lucky to be here. But I think both men and women want to be ambitious and explore the world in a similar way. [What’s missing for men is] the inability to make the one partner both of these things, wife and sexual adventurer.

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What is missing from the discussion around male sexuality?

Grant: I want to suck a dick. I don’t want to conform to a lifestyle or necessarily move to Chelsea. I just want to suck a big one. If women [want to experiment], it’s cool, but for guys it’s, “Oh, so you’re gay?”

Also, here is what I want to see changed: the way men use language. They talk about banging girls, finger-banging or fucking. It’s something mechanical that sort of gets done. I hope for them it’s actually a little more complex than that, a little more considered. But anything other than some sort of Anglo-Saxon term for what you do to a woman as a man is viewed as somehow weird, or creepy, or it makes you a sensualist.

David J: The message we are getting today is that our sexuality is problematic and destructive. I think that culturally there aren’t enough symbols of non-destructive sexuality for men to really adopt.

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Rachel Rabbit White is a “sex journalist.” Follow her on Twitter for more conversations about masculinity, sexuality and sex positivity. And to see more from these interviews, visit her blog.

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More from Sex Week at the Good Men Project:

Benoit Denizet-Lewis: The Dan Savage Interview

Hugo Schwyzer: Male Self-Pleasure Myths

Amanda Marcotte: What Women Don’t Tell You

Ed Fell: 10 Secrets to Satisfying Sex

Andrew Ladd: A Billion Wicked Assumptions

Charles Allen: Why I Hate My Giant Dong

Emily Heist Moss: Does Size Matter?

John DeVore: Multiple Inches of Love

Joshua Matacotta: Do Gay Men Fear Intimacy?

Hugo Schwyzer: Mythbusting Bisexual Men

Bhatia & MacKinnon: The Psychology of Erectile Dysfunction

Wilson & Robinson: Can’t She See I Need It?

Robert Levithan: Sex at 60

 

—Photo Just call me Jason (:/Flickr

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About Rachel White

Rachel White is a Journalist and Blogger writing about sex and gender. This story originally appeared on her blog. Follow her onTwitter to keep up with more of her writerly adventures.

Comments

  1. Male sexuality, has been under deliberate attack for a long time now, before feminism it was organised religion. These days, feminist women are publishing lists,” A man is a rapist if he ever watches porn with a woman in it”. Its a hard sell Rachel White Rabbit, feminists trying to control the debate on male game and male sexuality.

    • I think male sexuality is also under attack from porn. I don’t htink it’s something too many men want to examine because usually their focus is sexually on the woman. (In terms of mainstream majority hetero porn). Porn protrays most men as selfish brutes, that have little care for women and certainly really aren’t that skilled in what really turns women on, even often displaying physically abusive sexual acts for their own pleasure and the stewardship of the male viewer. Most men aren’t mean like that but porn protrays men as being mean, selfish, indulgent, weak, incapable of self control, and pretty much the anti-thesis of what any human being would deam good qualities. So if you think men are being deliberately attacked, men should look more closely at the men in porn and how men are protrayed in porn. There is so much in porn that in really attacking toward men. So it makes it doubly sad that not only are men buying into messages about women through porn, they apparently are buying messages about themselves and their sexuality through porn.

      • I don’t htink it’s something too many men want to examine because usually their focus is sexually on the woman.
        And it also doesn’t help that other people outside of men don’t seem to want to examine those things. I myself have been told that showing conern over the portrayal of men in porn is unfair because it takes away from talking about how porn is so anti-woman.

        • Danny, I have gotten a lot of flack about my honest opinion on many subjects. And just because I get flack for it, dosen’t mean I stop talking about the issues I believe in. So no, it doesn’t help that people might deny that porn isn’t harmful to men as well, but if *you* believe it is, then it’s your duty to be the one to talk about it despite the people that don’t want to examine it. That’s the only way you bring attention to an issues.

          Usually the depictions of women in porn are of a subordinate/sex toy nature, so it’s natural that women are more likely to resonate with that depiction of themselves through a medium that is highly geared to men to begin with. However, if there is more talk about how poorly porn also represents men, then you get that line of communication open. But bitterly saying the people “outside of men” are the ones who are at fault for not examining deeper the depictions of people in porn is a little unfair. Generally, men are the bigger consumers of porn. Generally, women are the ones that are on the receving side of harsh sexual acts. Getting men to talk about how anti-woman porn is, is hard enough. Getting men to see how anti-man porn is too, is a bigger feat that is going to require other men to step up to the plate. Men already don’t listen to women when it comes to porn. So they aren’t going to listen to women on the subject of porn also being negative toward men. If you as a man think porn is anti-man, then you need to be the one to talk about it. And if other people don’t want to examine it, then that’s their problem. You can either complain about how other’s don’t want to examine it or you can talk about the actual issue and maybe enlighten someone else that might not have thought about something in such terms before.

          • So no, it doesn’t help that people might deny that porn isn’t harmful to men as well, but if *you* believe it is, then it’s your duty to be the one to talk about it despite the people that don’t want to examine it. That’s the only way you bring attention to an issues.
            Damn straight. Which is why I speak the things I speak.

            However, if there is more talk about how poorly porn also represents men, then you get that line of communication open. But bitterly saying the people “outside of men” are the ones who are at fault for not examining deeper the depictions of people in porn is a little unfair.
            How is it unfair when its true? I agree that its not right to spend all effort on that one point but pretending it doesn’t happen doesn’t help either.

            Look I get what you’re saying and you make good points but frankly (just like with any issue that leaves some group on the short end of the stick) yeah I’m going to spend a bit of time on airing such greivences. I don’t want to spend all my time and effort doing that but if the slightest mention of them causes people to wish I’d rather “take it in good stride and never complain” (in short “man up”) then I’m sorry for them.

          • Erin.

            I just don’t trust a feminist when she is offering up something that she doesn’t like as the problem, while taking the focus off a much bigger problem, which is a lies, hatred and slander about men and male sexuality that feminism has been spreading in the mainstream for decades now, I think thats just a gender narcissistic and self serving position, something akin to concern trolling.

            If you had a genuine interest in caring for men, you wouldn’t come here to persistently support feminism and people like Hugo.

            • Hey Up – Are you refering to me? Because I remember distincally saying that male sexuality IS under attack, and it comes through in the form of porn. If you thin Feminism is spreading hatred about male sexuality, look at porn too, it also spreads hatred about male sexuality. And I think it’s worth talking about.

              And it’s because I do have a genunie interest in caring for men that I support some of the things Hugo says. I don’t always agree with him but I do think he’s trying to open conversations about things men haven’t previously thought about.

              Hey Up, I do have a serious question though. How do *you* define male sexuality. What *is* male sexuality ?

              If any other men want to chime in, i would love to know how men define their own sexuality. It could be quite a good conversation for all of us.

            • Mainly I tie my definition of male sexuality with my male body and what I can do with it. The pleasure that my body (I have a copy of the male reproductive system BTW) can give and receive.

              Its a pretty basic definition (and feel free to ask more exact questions I’ll answer the best I can) but for me it works and there is nothing inherently wrong with it. But I think the most important feature of it is that its my definition, that works for me, and I would not try to impose it on anyone else anymore than I’l let someone else impose theirs on me.

            • Danny, what do you mean by “what you can do with it”? And what about the mental part of it?How do you define male sexuality regarding the mental aspect? It seems to me that your definition of male sexuality is one of sexual functionality and I think the heart of the issue is that men’s sexuality is much bigger and deeper then it’s projected to be. I think things like porn actually narrow male sexuality.

              I get that a lot of guys don’t like how their sexuality is defined through the media and feminism. So what are those aspects of male sexuality that men don’t like that other media’s define?

            • Okay I had a long reply typed out for this but it was lost in moderation (I had 3-4 links in it for clarification so that might be why).

              Instead of linking to the posts I’ll give you a link to my blog and give you the titles of posts below.

              (Bear in mind I’ve got very limited sexual experience so most of what I’m saying is speculation.)

              Danny, what do you mean by “what you can do with it”?
              Mainly its relation to my male reproductive system. Meaning mostly (but not totally) my penis. The sensations it can provide to partners and the sensations partner provide to it (and that’s not always going to be penetration),

              And what about the mental part of it?How do you define male sexuality regarding the mental aspect?
              Mentally I can’t imagine it being much different from female sexuality.

              I get that a lot of guys don’t like how their sexuality is defined through the media and feminism. So what are those aspects of male sexuality that men don’t like that other media’s define?
              Masturbation – On the surface there is a belief that men have freedom to masturbate and women don’t. Now I can’t speak on female masturbation but I can speak on male. If you look at how male masturbation is talked about its often in the context of joking or shame. As in “haha you jack off!” or “i know you masturbate because you’re pathetic when it comes to the ladies so you’re not having any ‘real’ sex.” How much freedom is there to male sexuality when masturbation is regarded as a joke or something that shameful guys who having sex with women do? (I talked about this on a post “Is Male Masturbation Really Easy or Okay to Talk About?” over at my blog a while back.)

              Mixed Signals – Guys are supposedly so overcome with lust that we are willing to have sex with any and every woman around while at the same time we are supposedly so picky about our tastes in women that we engage in -ist behaviors and are responsible for harming the body image of girls/woman the world over. And there’s also the heteronomitivity (I mention this in my post “What’s With the Mixed Signals on Male Sexuality?”)

              Virginity – When it comes to guys virginity is regarded as some sort of curse that must be dispelled as soon as possible (and again, with a woman/girl). Otherwise said guy is “not a real man”. (I brought this up in my post “Being a guy and being a virgin”)

            • Hey I totally feel your anger here. However (and man almost can’t believe I’m about to say this) thing to look at is not a matter of supporting Hugo and feminism but the things about Hugo and feminism someone supports.

              Hugo is a mixed bag. Sure you’re just as likely to read him saying that men are harmed by the system as you are to read him saying that certain things that men engage in are inherently bad. It can be an aggrevating task to parse out the good from the bad but I do think its worth it.

              Same goes for feminism. I’ll be the first to agree that feminists don’t deserve the blind faith that some of think they are owed for being feminists but at the same time there is some good among them. (If nothing else notice that Erin says “If you thin Feminism is spreading hatred about male sexuality, look at porn too, it also spreads hatred about male sexuality. And I think it’s worth talking about. ” meaning she is at least willing to see that feminism is not totally innocent in the hatred against male sexuality.)

      • It’s quite funny reading you, because in essence, you’re of the same opinion. What do the feminists say? They portray men as domineering brutes, rapists, sexist savages who have trouble controlling themselves – pigs. What does the porno say about men? Domineering brutes, rapists, sadists, sexist savages, etc… everybody, porn viewers included, would then seem to agree on guys being scum. Please, you men out there, say it’s not true! I know plenty of men who don’t watch porn, who are not interested… real men who have no problems, who are empathic, friendly, understanding.
        After all, men have built civilizations, progressed, and it’s not with their “dicks” or by being domineering brutes they achieved all that. Porn reduces manhood to its worse aspects and allows nothing more. A sad state of affairs, when guys think their duty to actually defend what smears them.

  2. I think that its more about what is being discussed and the way its being discussed.

    Once we kill off feminism and correct the lies that are being told about us, open discussion will follow naturally. This is the most potentially liberating piece of writing, for both men and women, on the subject I can think of.

    ht tp://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/05/27/my-name-is-typhonblue-and-i-am-a-survivor-of-rape-hysteria/

  3. wellokaythen says:

    In general I would say there is a different set of boundaries that society puts around male sexuality as opposed to female sexuality. (Just speaking of sex between men and women at the moment.) One kind of barbed-wire boundary is linguistic – different insulting labels used to keep people in check.

    Certainly for many women, there is the fear of being labeled a “slut” or any number of similar terms, but there is nothing quite the same flavor as a man being labeled a “creep.” Even with terms like slut and cougar there is some space to embrace the word and reshape the power of the word for your own ends. One could even laugh it off or take it as a source of pride. But, there’s still nowhere to go with “creep.” It’s a very easy label to slap on a man, for any and all sorts of sexual expression, even a mention of sex, and a very hard label to peel off once it is there. I’m not at all saying that men have it worse than women, but in some ways men have less room to maneuver in speaking publicly about sexuality.

    I read the occasional steamy romance novel, the kinds under the Library of Congress subject heading “erotic fiction.” They are quite explicit nowadays, comparable in their vocabulary and plot to letters to Penthouse, and very often including the perspective of both male and female characters. But, I would estimate 99% of them are written by women or published under a woman’s name. I suspect that many of them are actually written by men but that the consumer feels more comfortable thinking they were written by women, so they are all under female pseudonyms. I wonder how much online discussion happens by “women” who are actually men in real life – no one writing in under a female name could be a creep, right?

  4. Un-good man says:

    Here is my theory on the writing…

    Its pandering to female tastes and experiences, (I’m going to use male game terminology because it works), the woman in the story is typically being courted by potential suiters that she is not attracted to (beta males), and along comes an alpha male who sweeps her off her feet, and contains a lot of emotional porn and drama along the way.

    Porn is generally the opposite of that, it depicts a woman who is having willing sex with the beta male suitors that are rejected in the female orientated novels.

    The alpha male in the female orientated novels is in short supply, as is the woman that has sex with the selection of beta males in your typical porn movies.

    • Both gender specific narratives are reductionist fantasies that bear no resemblance to real life, which is of course more complex and nuanced. That is why most examples of female centered erotica and male centered porn lack the psychological complexity and sophistication of literary fiction and fine-art cinema.

  5. How do you feel about your masculinity? Is this important to you?
    Actually after pretty much deciding I’m done doing masculinity everyone else’s way but my own I’m working on it doing it my way. Still not sure what that way is but I’m getting there (shameless plug: I do most of my pondering in my Working on Being a Man series of posts. Mostly beginner stuff but I think the basics are a necessity.) And yes it is important to me. Its a major part of who I am. Just as someone should be free to queer, transgender, what have you someone should be free to be who they are or who they want to be. Contrary to popular belief there is nothing inherently wrong with being a man.

    Why is the sex writing, sex positive sphere dominated by women?
    I think it might just be a matter of women getting into that space first. (Like any space if most of the early/founding people are of a certain group then that group will likely dominate. Kinda like how when you think racial discourse in America you will more than likely think of African American people first, despite there being many many many races in this country.)

    There is this idea that male sexuality is different, simpler than female sexuality. It’s just a button to push. Thoughts?
    This is likely the result of men being socialized to only be in it for the sex for fear of developing a deepr connection. As we know men “not supposed to get emotional” and only be in it for the quick score. I think that as a result of that socialization society as a whole is left with this belief that men really don’t have any emotions when in fact its a matter of us being actively told to suppress them. Get rid of that suppression and I bet we’ll see that male sexuality is much more complex than what we as a society think it is now. Much more complex that what its allowed to be now.

    What about male stereotypes like guys being “less in touch with their emotions”?
    I think those stereotypes are kept alive out of fear. Fear of having to come to terms with something painful (like bad memories). Fear of having to reazlize that men are people too (and are also worthy of attention and care). Fear of sharing that care and attention (I really feel that there are people out there that don’t want to confront stereotypes about men because they think it would take some of the spotlight away from women). Fear of having to realize one does not know men as well as they’ve decided they do. Plain old fear.

    What about the one, guys are just “thinking with their dicks”?
    Frankly I think its a rather offensive and misandous remark. It implies that men are slaves to their sex drives with absolutely no critical thought behind it. Just a quick insult against men in order to make oneself feel snobbishly superior.

    What is missing from the discussion around male sexuality?
    Men. And by that I don’t mean PHDs, therapists, celebrities, or the ones that women deem enlightened enough to participate. I’m talking about an actual cross section of real men with real fears, real thoughts, real feelings, etc… One additional reason I think men have been a bit slow on the uptake on discussion male sexuality is because they are still dismissed as predatory and only out for sex. The people that think that need to get over themselves.
    Its going to take a lot to get past such presumptions but once those presumptions are gone things will get a lot easier ranging from actually taking male victims of sex crimes seriously to getting rid of the prejudiced stance of coming down on male sex offenders harder than female sex offenders and so forth.

  6. Henry Vandenburgh says:

    Regretably, most women’s writing about sexuality (eg. here) is sex negative. My impression of sexuality is that, when the sex is really, really good, men and women become similar. I have a liking for very slow, very tantric sex. In this state, both men and women become very sensitive to anything a partner does. Fast, rabid sex is half-sex as far as I’m concerned, and is a product of what Reich called “body armoring.”

    As to masculinity, men should become men again. By this, I think that they should be strong and honorable. I don’t like agressive men, but am able to deal with them pretty well. I think the way men are featured now is sort of a charicature: ostentatious sports buffery, faux business agression, etc. Sort of a cartoon. (I tend to think that groups of men, particularly young men, bring out the worst in men.) I’d prefer to see men study martial arts, meditation, etc.

    This is just my take on it, and I do realize that there are many other ways of looking at masculinity.

  7. I like what David said about men being embarrassed or afraid of the “emotional guts” that get exposed. I do think that what’s missing from much of the discussion of male sexuality is the importance of presence of vulnerability. Like you said, women are more at ease with this. This is how we bond, by sharing and opening up. I think we are a bit more fluid as well. Grant says he wants to suck a big dick. A lot of men might immediately think, “So you’re gay?” A woman is more likely to be intrigued and understanding because we spend s much time analyzing, appreciating and (yes) judging other women. We’re comparing their breasts to our, their butts to ours, we touch them, we admire them. I think we’re more in tune with the reality that sexuality is not black and white.

    We run fellatio workshops for women and they get 15-30 women per class. Women will sign up in groups of 4 and 5, and they don’t all know each other. They might be co-workers or friends of friends. But by the end of the class they’ve all pretty much spilled their guts on their sexual proclivities and insecurities. But we can not fill a cunnilingus class for men. The men are just not comfortable being amongst other guys and talking about their possible insecurities. They don’t want to be vulnerable. I mean, they do. Just not in a room full of strangers. It’s just too daunting for them.

    Something else becoming far too common, at least in my mind, is this emasculation of men by women. Read a dating blog and you’ll no doubt come across a post wherein the woman either blatantly objectifies the man she had sex with, or accuses him of “not being a man” because he sent her a text message instead of called her to ask her out or some other such nonsense. There’s a lot of “man ups” being thrown around. What does a man’s choice of a means of communication have to do with his manhood?? Or she expresses blatantly sexist statements like “all men want is sex/it’s all they think about/ if a man takes you out on a date he’s expecting sex.” Yet if a man wrote something and implied that a woman who likes nice shoes is a golddigger and all she wants from a man is his wallet, women would be all over him for stereotyping her. Women like to talk about the double standard involved with women asserting themselves sexually. Yet those same women regularly practice their own version of the double standard by accusing that all men are walking hard ons devoid of emotions.

    How is this going to make men feel more comfortable being emotionally vulnerable, either in their writing or in their interpersonal relationships?

    • I get what you are saying and I have to admit I am one of those women who often feels dismissive of men and their motivations. When a guy hits in me I often think “belch, here’s another random guy who wants to get into my pants.” It’s hard for me to imagine that a guy would really want to get to know me for any other reason. The thing is, although I’ve had good relationships with men (including my current relationship), over the years I’ve been burned too many times by guys who did take me out on a date expecting sex and did see me, basically, as a pussy with legs. I don’t like to feel so cynical, but it is hard not to be cynical especially if you read anything about “pickup artists”, or half the comments from men on this website, actually. DO men want women for anything other than sex? This is a question I struggle with. I don’t want to be sexist but I also don’t want to be naive about men because being naive makes one vulnerable to being used.

      • Henry Vandenburgh says:

        I absolutely can’t be with a women who’s not an intellectual companion as well as a sex partner.

      • Of course men want women for more than sex. Men need to be vulnerable too. They also want companionship. There are always going to be those people out there just looking for sex or a free meal. With online dating being a more common way for people to meet, that increases our exposure to these people. Online dating has completely warped peoples perceptions of dating and relationships and the opposite sex.

        • Thank you for your response. Often it is hard to know what to think of people anymore. Like the internet, there is too much on the surface everywhere, and not enough depth.

          • Susan

            Fear of “being used” comes up for you again and again here. This fear, which L get the impression sometimes overwhelms you, is something that you need to address in yourself. . Also, hanging around sex and male negative people is going to make it seem worse for you.

      • J.G. te Molder says:

        And what’s wrong with anyone, female OR male wanting sex?

        Oh, yeah, nothing. Not a single little bit.

        The idea that a male that likes and wants sex is somehow defective and can be labeled as creep and what not, is one of the main reasons why no men are talking about sexuality.

        Those who do, are just setting themselves up to be ridiculed, shamed, and hurled what-not at by feminists and manginas alike.

      • What’s wrong with sex. The way I look at it, I would like get the know the women quick and have a sexual relationship with her. I don’t think of this as “using” her. I think of it as have a good time with her. My idea is that we enjoy each other and have fun together. That’s it.

        “DO men want women for anything other than sex?”

        Sex takes about 20 minutes and men can only do it about 2-3 times in one day sustainably. We spend a lot longer than that in the company of women. And we spend a lot of time chasing women, dating women, trying to impress them and not having sex with them. If all we were after was sex this wouldn’t make any sense.

        When we are after only sex we go to prostitutes…which is the only thing that makes sense if all you want is sex.

        What do we want from you? Who cares. You should worry about what YOU want.

        I know what I want. I want to have a good, fun time and I want to feel good. I want to enjoy my time with a girl. I want her to like me and I want to really like her. In every sexual relationship I have ever had with women I have had all of this. This is why I always want the relationship to become sexual ASAP.

        But that is me. Not all men are like that.

      • dungone says:

        Susan I find this pervasive attitude among most (not all) women to be the height of arrogance. It’s hard to be surprised that men you meet want anything more than to get in your pants when most women don’t take any initiative to actually meet men on their own and then take at most 3 minutes to reject any guy they themselves don’t want to get in bed with. So what else would you expect? Guys to ask you out, buy you dinner, tell you how beautiful you are, and then pat you on the back and say goodnight?

        I mean, under the societal convention where men have to take up all the initiative and risks of rejection, you expect to do nothing and have men work their asses off just to maybe be a good listener and cuddle? Women deal with having many suitors by becoming extremely picky and making fast decisions to try to keep pace. A better strategy might be to take every third guy who hits on you and get to know him instead of making ever-faster decisions just to keep pace. An even better strategy would be to work a little harder to actually meet men yourself, find some initiative and actually take responsibility for the type of guys you meet.

        • I don’t think a guy should expect to get sex as a reward for taking me to dinner. But I always offer to pay my share, for what that’s worth.

          Also, if a guy thinks that he should get sex just because he’s putting in a lot of effort — well what if I said that I’m putting in a lot of effort looking nice, laughing at his jokes and so on, so I should get a marriage proposal or at least a LTR? Obviously that would be ridiculous LOL

          If you are looking at sex as something women “owe” you, then that’s a problem.

    • wintermute says:

      You forgot the worst type of emasculation for men, size shaming. There seems to be this notion that it’s OK for women to ridicule a guy because the size of his penis doesn’t measure up to their expectations because we all know the only way guys can give sexual pleasure is by using their dicks right?

  8. Excellent and relevant piece

    “Without the influence and control of whites it was assumed that blacks were simply animalistic/primitive and constantly focused on sex. The fear was of black men raping white women; Black men murdering and stealing, etc… The source of criminality was blackness itself. The two were perennially linked and in so doing blacks were saddled with being the core of the problem, not the victim of it.

    Now this same projection is focused on men. Take a trip to The Good Men Project, an artifact of the new sexist sociology, and find out why violence is a “men’s issue.” Consider the implications of a Violence Against Women Act in a culture where adult women are the least frequent victims of domestic or any other kind of violence. Ask yourself why we now have the successful coining of the term “rape culture,” codespeak for male culture, and why it paints a broad stroke of sexist stereotyping on every man and boy in the western world.

    It is safe to assume that the old memes about blacks were being propagated unconsciously, but foolish to think of that lack of consciousness as an excuse. Most people were not intentionally hateful and judging towards blacks, they were simply swept up in the tide of social consciousness that was prevalent at the time.

    But the damage was done, just as it is being done now.

    The “common sense” that is the cultural expression of all hateful meme’s is propagated as common knowledge, and it had the impact of not only condemning blacks as inferior, it was also integral to justifying poor treatment and poor conditions.

    It is obvious that these sorts of memes were very damaging to blacks. It doesn’t take much imagination to conceive of the hurtful impact of being seen as inferior or criminal or generally a bane to “decent” society. The cumulative effects of this were devastating and a new consciousness was needed in order to begin the process of abandoning the old programming.

    In the 1950′s men, generally speaking, were held in relatively high esteem, especially if they were providing for and protecting women and children. This esteem held true even in respectively segregated populations. In other words, white men were held in high regard in white society; the same for black men, as men, within their own culture.

    Then from 1960 onward things started to change. Blacks began shedding their cultural burden while women, generally speaking, were expanding their sex roles and getting good press as model human beings and consummate victims. The culture began to see and portray women in a most positive light, establishing cultural taboo’s on speech, and even thought, to the contrary.

    Today all men, regardless of ethnicity, are suffering because of this sort of cultural scheme. Like the early 20th century no one notices that they are carrying and expressing the bigotry, even most of the victims.”

    htt p://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/05/31/seven-bricks-in-the-misandric-wall/

    • I’m not suffering, nor do I know any men who are. Most men of my acquaintance have good sex and professional lives. They respect others and demand respect from others, whether women or men. There are a lot of feminists in my social circle, and many of them not only accept sex-positive porn, but watch it as well. My friends and I are very open with our sexuality.

      Nor do I think the legal prohibition of violence against women is unreasonable, or in any way akin to slavery. I don’t like rape, because it is violence and so unlike sex, which is pleasure. I have never encountered a third wave feminist who demonizes consensual sex.

      • Lee

        Women are a privileged class regarding violence and are also the dominant abusers in the home, committing most child and domestic abuse and are most likely to falsely accuse a person of violence against them

        Give that, prohibition violence against them to the exclusion of men, and the erosion of the presumption of innocence for men, is unreasonable.

        The fact that you believe that situation to be reasonable, demonstrates that you are suffering but as the article says “Like the early 20th century no one notices that they are carrying and expressing the bigotry, even most of the victims.”

        • Curious says:

          So are you saying it is unreasonable for rape to be illegal? I just want to be clear on what you mean.

          If you are saying there should be more prosecution of sex crimes against men that’s one thing, if you are saying rape should not be illegal, that’s very different.

          • Curious

            People like you are part of the problem, you saw something you didn’t like, and you starte making insinuations about rape.

            Feminists ,with their incessant false allegations and insinuations about men and rape, demonise male sexuality.

        • Again, that has not been my personal experience (nor do any statistics demonstrate this).

          Condesending much? Of course, to say that feminism has not in any way negatively impacted my life nor anyone must mean I’m actually terribly abused.

          • Hi Lee

            What stats are you talking about, because men are most murder victims, assault victims, women abuse children more often and initiate more domestic violence and that information is readily available, even a quick wiki will confirm most of those claims I’m assuming that you are telling white lies about the stats you have seen.

            Besides, even of the reverse were true and women were disproportionately affected by violence, it still doesn’t justify a program to protect them to the exclusion of others and protection of female instigated violence.

            Its like saying, builders are most often injured by tools, therefore we exclude all other people that have been injured by tools from treatment.

            • Here are the stats for where I live: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/07/14/domestic-violence-050714.html

              “The data collected show the nature and consequences of spousal violence were more severe for women than for men.

              Female victims of spousal violence were more than twice as likely to be injured as male victims.

              Women were also three times more likely to fear for their life, and twice as likely to be the targets of more than 10 violent episodes.

              And, overall, female victims were twice as likely as male victims to be stalked by a previous spouse. ”

              I don’t understand in any way how having a bill to prevent this is a bad thing. And how does addressing violence against women lead to violence against men? That’s like saying that treating builders who have been injured by tools is preventing treatment of other people injured by tools.

  9. Liberal Women Are Evil says:

    Another clueless article written by a clueless pro-sex feminist who pobably (like most women)
    thinks that all or most men view smut-WRONG ANSWER.Thats another female delusion along with most guys being into what the mainstream puke porn industry poops out.There are alot of guys who view smut but the generalizations that sex bloggers regarding that are mindblowing

    .Furthermore,sex positive feminism and misandry and one and the same.Go to one these gutless wunderkinds and listen to them bash the living crap outta guy’s on their genitals,guys who suck in bed,short guys,bald dudes,men with ED,…its mindblowing…such hate for men…Women are headed for one of the biggest wake up calls in recent memory.

    Feminst/sex positive feminists = biggest cowards on planet earth…hiding behind the cloak of the internet of course.

  10. I read most of the interviews from the Man Project on Rabbit White’s blog. My favourite was Michael.

    The quote from him about how gay men seem to fetishise their masculinity by valuing ‘tops’ over ‘bottoms’(who they perceive as feminine) I found very pertinent and fascinating. I think he raises an important often unspoken issue amongst gay men. My view, as an outsider to an extent, is that I think being a ‘bottom’ does feminise a man, but not permanently! The act of bottoming is akin to the act of being penetrated as a man might penetrate a woman. This is not the problem in my opinion. The problem in my opinion is that we take that one act and turn it into (an often negative) whole identity!

    Fascinating interviews anyway RW!

  11. J.G. te Molder says:

    The reason why you find little men writing about it? Because for fifty years feminists and gynocentric spent their time dehumanizing, criminalizing, no even demonizing male sexuality.

    Unless your goal is to undo the damage, no man in his right mind would write about it; he’ll just get attacked, labeled as a misogynist, creep, get abused hurled at him, and whatnot.

    • Right, because highly restrictive views of men’s masculinity and sexuality only appeared after feminists showed up.

      Except wait, it didn’t.

      Sex-positive feminists opened the door to healthier women’s sexuality. It’s time men did the same for themselves.

  12. jameseq says:


    Buck: I think and act and interact totally different from how I did when I was female and had little testosterone in my body. Even though I was a very masculine female. But I was much more sensitive, I cried easier. I looked at things differently, my sexuality. My sex drive was intense for a woman. But I would say it is much more intense now.

    RRW, Id be very interested if you could follow up this, investigating how testosterone changes the behaviour of transmen. this area seems very ripe for exploration and feminist contention ;-), as does the effects of estrogen on transwomen.

  13. Lots of anger here at how feminists are trying to prevent discussion about male sexuality, with the implication that a hundred years ago it was much more discussed.

    As a history major, got to tell you that this is not the case. A hundred years ago, both oral sex and writing about it were illegal. Seeing as most modern studies show virtually all men like blowjobs (though some more than others) this seems like a massive disservice to our forebears. Still, there is a significant correlation between the fifteen States in the US that crimininalize fellatio (Utah, Georgia, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, N/S Carolina, ect) and conservatism- clearly something other than feminism is preventing acceptance of this very basic act of male sexuality.

    Similarly, though male-controlled birth control was available in the form of sheepskin condoms, there was nowhere in the world in which you could legally buy them and thus make the choice as to whether you want to have children.

    Many feminists have done a great deal to advocate for greater discussion of sexuality, greater acceptance of alternate sex acts as valid means of sexual expression, and greater access to condoms for both women and men. While there has been some sex-negative feminism, the solution isn’t going back to the 19th century (or modern day Utah), it’s moving forward to a point where both female and male sexuality can be expressed and appreciated.

    • Many feminists have done a great deal to advocate for greater discussion of sexuality, greater acceptance of alternate sex acts as valid means of sexual expression, and greater access to condoms for both women and men.
      Which makes people (myself to an extent) angry to see folks that have done those great things then turn around and shut men out of the conversation.

      While there has been some sex-negative feminism, the solution isn’t going back to the 19th century (or modern day Utah), it’s moving forward to a point where both female and male sexuality can be expressed and appreciated.
      I can’t speak for everyone who feels the way I do but since when did having a problem with feminists equate to “going back to the old days”? Its that mentality right there (“if you’re not a feminist then you’re the enemy!”) that causes that anger.

      • 1. However, men do control a large number of media outlets. I can’t help but feel that the situation is much more complex than “women aren’t letting us write” but “large media outlets aren’t letting us write” and “many men feel uncomfortable writing because of social norms.”

        2. There is often, not always, but often, a fundamentally regressive quality to anti-feminism, generally the feeling that men have “lost something” over the last century and need to take it back. From this message board alone, “In the 1950′s men, generally speaking, were held in relatively high esteem..” “men should become men again,” etc. This seems both historically incorrect, as men have gained sexual freedoms over the last century unheard-of even in ancient times (even in ancient Greece, some sex positions were not allowed), as well as ignoring the problems facing men today by pretending that if we argue feminists long enough they’ll go away. It isn’t feminism that makes men afraid to cry in public or get emotional support after divorce, it’s powerful social definitions of masculinity that are literally thousands of years older than feminism. It isn’t feminism’s fault that men are expected to be the breadwinners; in fact, feminism has gone a long way to take the pressure off (studies show pay equality within marriages has increased dramatically over the last thirty years). Nor is it feminism’s fault that there is abuse towards men- most of the anti-prison rape advocates in the world are feminists, and feminist activists in the 70s were largely responsible for changing the language of domestic abuse law to become gender neutral.

        It just seems that “feminists” have been put up as this impossible enemy, when there are actually thousands of different forms of gender oppression, from diverse sources, which men have to work to eliminate. The “us” or “them” mentality seems to hold us back rather than empower us.

        • 1. However, men do control a large number of media outlets.
          No a lage number of media outlets are controlled by a few men that are more motivated by money and power than looking out for men as a whole. Sharing gender with the likes of Ted Turner doesn’t amount to much.

          I can’t help but feel that the situation is much more complex than “women aren’t letting us write” but “large media outlets aren’t letting us write” and “many men feel uncomfortable writing because of social norms.”
          Actually its a combination of all three of the things you mention (even though I think you mention the latter two just to make women look innocent than out of real concern). Men don’t feel comfortable, large media outlets do shut men out, and some women do shut men out.

          There is often, not always, but often, a fundamentally regressive quality to anti-feminism, generally the feeling that men have “lost something” over the last century and need to take it back.
          I personally think its more of men figuring out there is something that we were kept from accessing before. Its been there but forces have conspired to keep us from realizing that it is okay for us to access it. But of course I’m not an anti-feminst so…

          Now the rest of your second paragraph sounds well and good and is even true to a large extent. However when people act in the name of feminism and shut men out of conversations, dismiss them because they are men, generalize them as brutes that are only interested in attacking women, cry foul when some concern is shown for men, turn a blind eye to men who are trying to talk about the issues (probably because they aren’t doing it the “right” way), and more importantly other people who claim to be a part of feminism let such behavior go unchecked (but would not do the same in regards to other groups) it does impact people’s position on feminism. Yes those things you list are great and important but acting like feminism is immune to criticism becasue of those things doesn’t get a lot of traction with folks that have been harmed by it.

          It just seems that “feminists” have been put up as this impossible enemy, when there are actually thousands of different forms of gender oppression, from diverse sources, which men have to work to eliminate. The “us” or “them” mentality seems to hold us back rather than empower us.
          I agree that there are times when people come down on feminists unfairly but frankly with my experiences with them its not as impossible as some make it out to be. I would personally love to get rid of the us vs them mentality but its not going anywhere as long there are people (on all sides it seems) that are expecting everyone else to get rid of it while they themselves continue with their actions unchanged.

          • 1. That’s my point exactly- women aren’t the enemy, people who don’t want to seriously look at male gender norms are, be they media executives or regular people. The majority of feminists don’t fall into this category. In my experience anyways, the only times feminists are upset are when the discussion enters into the realms of “men can’t help themselves,” “all men want the same things,” or “how to manipulate women into having sex with you,” which is usually a conversation that is as much anti-man as anti-woman. If you have examples of feminists shutting men down for talking about consenting sexuality that acknowledges diversity among male desire and behavious, I’d be interested in seeing a link.

            Again, this might just be my experience, but the vast, vast majority of feminists don’t do any of the above. Concern with the prevalence of rape in our society and believing that it is the rapist’s responsibility to not commit rape is often seen as somehow anti-male, but I’ve never found it particularly so. I read Feministing and I find it’s focus on breaking down heteronormativity and stark gender norms empowering to me as a man. I have never read an article on the site that agreed with any traditional restrictions on male sexuality or male behaviour (other than to not rape, but again, I don’t think of that as unreasonable). I have never read an article on there that belittles men in any way; often men who are working agaisnt gender norms are interviewed and celebrated. I’ve had similar experiences of Jezebel and other feminist sites. Which feminist sites do you go to, and how do they treat men in the ways you specified?

            There are also feminist men, such as myself or the greatest contributor to discussions of male sexuality, Alfred Kinsey, who are often confused at being told that we do things to men, when we in fact are men and feel we are working in men’s general interest. It’s often strange to me that there is a belief that arguing agaisnt poor treatment of women is somehow arguing for poor treatment of men. The overwhelming majortiy of feminists also have political leanings that want to improve justice and quality of life for everyone.

            I really appreciate your thoughtful responses. Often on this site as soon as I defend accomplishments of feminism I’m called out by people as being a gender traitor or somehow less than a man. It’s those people, who think that men have to act a certain way, have certain political beliefs and attitutdes towards women to be “real men” that I think are the real barrier to an honest discussion of the diversity of men’s sexual identity.

            • Again, this might just be my experience, but the vast, vast majority of feminists don’t do any of the above. Concern with the prevalence of rape in our society and believing that it is the rapist’s responsibility to not commit rape is often seen as somehow anti-male, but I’ve never found it particularly so.
              You’re right the vast majority don’t however there just seems to be this selective ignorance of those who do. The concern itself is not anti-male I don’t think. The feeling comes in when (or at least I think so) men are expected to take responsibility for stopping other men simply for sharing gender. Creates this air of “if you don’t do something its your fault its happening”.

              Which feminist sites do you go to, and how do they treat men in the ways you specified?
              Feministe – Instances in which people there actively defend the notion that its okay for a woman to assume the worst faith in a man based on her own (relatively limited) experiences with men. And I don’t mean just being suspicious of us until they get a feel but actually declaring that all men are either rapists or rapists waiting to strike. Someone may have challenged it later but I left after seeing absolutely no one say challenge those remarks or the attacks that came my way (accusing me of mansplaining which seems to be the new hip dismissive terms, calling me a privileged whiner, etc….). And mind you this was just the last of a few times when I’ve tried to post there to get attacked just to have it go unchallenged or even defended.

              Feministing – I read that site from time to time and one problem I have it is there is this air of “if you aren’t a feminist then you’re the enemy”. (I get this vibe from a lot of feminist sites.) Also this place is one where (like others) seem to be unable to mention MRAs in any other capacity other than negative, despite saying that treating feminists the same is unfair. I’ve cooled down on a lot of my anger with feminists but trying to act like I have to identify the same as you in order to matter still grates my nerves. That does no good to get rid of the us vs. them mindset.

              Pandagon – Frankly Amanda Marcotte is given too much of a free pass on her venomous remarks I think. Even here she generalizes MRAs “embittered men that blame women for everything wrong” and likens the PUA community to a sewer. Again I don’t think feminists would put up with that behavior if they were on the receiving end of it.

              factcheckme and Julian Real – Simply put these two feminists are liars. factcheckme actually called me a white dude that has no say in what is considered racist and then deleted my response where I told her I’m a black dude. Then she somehow managed to try to use misandry to try to prove it does not exist (this would be akin to sayin that there’s no sexism against women in boardrooms because they aren’t supposed to be there in the first place). And Julian Real from XY online (which is borderline anti-male hate) actually thinks that the things that harm men in society should take a back seat and that everyone should put their efforts into helping women first. Mind you these two are pretty fringe but I bring them up because I’ve seen a few other feminists bring them up here and there.

              It’s often strange to me that there is a belief that arguing agaisnt poor treatment of women is somehow arguing for poor treatment of men.
              In and of itself its not. But at the same time I’ve been told that the mere fact that I’m not a feminist is grounds to dismiss anything and everything I say. That being said I do think its a matter of what their argument is. Saying that sexism against women is a problem and not mentioning sexism against men is one thing. Its quite another to say that sexism against women is a problem and claiming that sexism against men does not exist (actually not so much saying it does not exist but trying to downplay it) and that acting like the way in which men are harmed is just collateral damage of the main plan of harming women.

              I really appreciate your thoughtful responses.
              Like wise.

              Often on this site as soon as I defend accomplishments of feminism I’m called out by people as being a gender traitor or somehow less than a man
              Funny as soon as say something about feminism that’s not undying praise I get attacked.

              It’s those people, who think that men have to act a certain way, have certain political beliefs and attitutdes towards women to be “real men” that I think are the real barrier to an honest discussion of the diversity of men’s sexual identity.
              While I agree that those people are a barrier I’ll say this. As someone who used to think that way and am now trying to work on changing one of the biggest barriers to me has been people who claim to want to work with me…..until I start to think differently from them. People who claim to want to help people change but then it comes to light that they don’t want to help free people from all scripts they are in but are just trying to change them over to their own script. Also dangerous people.

  14. Richard Aubrey says:

    To claim that men are less in touch with their emotions presumes men are hard-wired to have the same intensity of emotions and the same number (if such can be quantified) of emotions as women.
    This is an assertion without basis in fact. I don’t know how it could be empirically tested, but until it is, we have only an assertion.
    Maybe what we have is an excess of drama queens among women who are forever fondling their emotions and insisting the rest of us are obligated to pay attention.
    As an objective matter, either can be true, or false, since neither can be proven to rest on some “normal” emotional component of the personality.
    Maybe women should be commended to be the same as men as regards their emotions…? If not, why not?

    • Interesting point Richard. I have always “felt” that men were more emotional than women. The common shtick is to believe that unexpressed emotions make you unemotional. I think men are more invested in not expressing their vulnerability. It’s very easy to see when a man is emotional, he becomes quiet, contemplative and withdrawn. He deals with his vulnerability and then expresses himself. Which is right about the time that nobody wants to hear it. It’s a completely different construct of coping. Male vulnerability is not socially acceptable and especially to women.

  15. I like Eon’s response to the question about men “thinking with their dicks.” (Zak’s kind of sucks.) I spend a lot of time with my dick. I see it all the time. I go to the bathroom and “hello, little guy.” I look at it when I’m masturbating. I watch porn that often highlights the male member (and can create a lot of problematic expectations). But I have only been with one female partner who really, really liked my dick.

    All kinds of straight men talk about having preference for butts or a boobs, but dicks aren’t treated the same way by women. Look at the (rightfully) virulent response to celebrities sending out pictures of their dicks. Yes, it is stupid and offensive. But no one ever talks about whether it is a pretty dick or not. The way we think about dicks really reveals the way that we villianize the fetishization of the male body.

    • Henry Vandenburgh says:

      My wife says I have a pretty dick. She’s said it a number of times. Just sayin’.

  16. Cromartie says:

    Dear feminists and other concerned citizens of the world,
    Stop trying to save us.
    Stop trying to change us.
    Hell, stop trying to understand us.
    Oh, and stop trying to define us.
    All the hand wringing and faux concern makes my head hurt.

  17. At a time when we are constantly bombarded with the phrase “unintended consequences” I think its approproate to point out a few unintended consequences of sex positive feminism (which really just means mainstream feminism in 2011), and I’d appreciate some comments.

    I’m all for freedom of choice. Nobody should be denied a civil right protected under the law. Of course, as with any choice comes consequences, however trivial they may be. In the years following the “sexual revolution” men have experienced unprecedented new supply of commitment free sex. I’m just curious, as “liberating” as it may be to have sex ( or as feminists put it “experiences” and adventures”) with many men during your most attractive years as women,( rather than using that temporary power to attract a great man that will grow with you and act as a companion to build a family with), do feminists ever consider the consequences? More specifically, have you ever thought about how men would respons to this new found empowerment that sex positive feminismn provides the single bachelor?

    And how about its effect on the “nice guy?”. Within the course of fifty years, the hard working honest family loving man went from “strong” and “masculine” to “boring and predictable”

    Think of the men you have slept with outside of a relationship. Did you find them attractive because they take care of theier cancer stricken mother? Did you find him irresistable because he “does the right thing?” Did his self control and respect for women make you want to fuck him?

    Now think of the character of the men you have found sexually attractive. Were these good men? Did they have much respect for women? Or was it they were superioir in one respect or another…good looking, maybe a talented artist, maybe he had an awesome apartment in soho?

    I’m just saying….is your sex positive lifestyle really that progressive and “positive?”. Do you think about the 90% of men that are alienated from the fruits of this sex positive feminism. Truth be told, every man wants a variety of sex just as much as the superstar athlete or the sexy bad boy artist. So, make no mistake, death and sex drive men (alll men), and men will adapt and they will give up on all the boring “respect for women” bit and they will change over time and learn to seek out sex rather than family and love. I just don’t think feminists understand male sexuality, and therefore they just simply write off any man that is frustrated by all the sex provided to single men, and slowly but surely you will get a real f*chked up society.

    Perhaps its not neccessay to push the whole bohemian sex positive concept on the rest of us. I’m a good looking man, and I’m prosperous and I’ve made difficult decisions in my life. I love my fiance, and growing together and learning what we want and don’t want in bed ids amazing (contrary to the feminist belief that a man should appreciate a women that has fine tuned all her fetishes and sexual desires with other men before him),

    But dam, honestly, its fucking hard to stay faithful when there is an entire city full of women showerinf sex onto the worst of the worst of male behavior. Hell, I have single unemployed (have awful character but lots charm) friends in their late 30′s living with other grown men, and they are having sex with different women every other week. Sex is a powerful thing, and can drive men crazy. I have to ask myself, am I a schmuck for wanting to be a father at 32? Are the sacrifices one has to make in a relationship woth it when there are soooooo many single women who will sleep with you after a measly 3 dates (and feel as though they were conservative in doing so?.

    Look, I’m just saying…..all the newfound access to sex that men have these days is not so positive in the whole scheme of things. To each his own, but perhaps it would be refreshing to see a piece done on the “unintended consequences” aof all this easy sex and the effect it is having on men.

    But why do feminists equate a mans personal preference for a mate that does not have many sexual partners in her past? In my experience, there are many more

    • Eli, I’m not sure exactly what you are getting at. You are apparently feeling like you are surrounded by a lot of enticing, slutty young women and wondering if you really want to settle down with your chaste finance, and somehow this is all the fault of feminists? Because back in the 1950′s, you wouldn’t have wanted to sleep around with a variety of women? I guess men never, EVER cheated on their wives/girlfriends before feminists came along in the 1960′s.

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    blog, and I used to go to see this weblog everyday.

  21. Touche. Sound arguments. Keep up the good effort.

  22. Men need more non-permanant options for birth control. MRA’s beat a dead horse about male abortion, but they never seem to advocate men’s birth control. There are a couple new options. India has developed a product that can keep sperm from swimming for ten years. We need to advocate for something like this to get approved by the FDA as soon as possible. Feminists have been very effective at legalizing abortion and getting women access to birth control. The fight is not over, but men have totally been left out of any discussion about their own reproductive rights. Keep it in your pants.That is our only full-proof option for reversable birth control. We need more options.

    • MRA’s beat a dead horse about male abortion, but they never seem to advocate men’s birth control.
      Actually yes they do talk up male birth control. Contrary to feminist beliefs for a lot of MRAs its about freedom and options, not controlling women.

      Keep it in your pants.That is our only full-proof option for reversable birth control. We need more options.
      And do you know who has participated in that belief heavily? Feminists. Tell a man to keep it in his pants and its seen as putting him in his place or calling out but tell a woman to keep it out of her pants and it tantamount to sexism against women.

      • Do you know who is also pushing heavily to create more birthcontrol options for men?
        Do you know who fights for reproductive rights for all on a daily basis?
        Feminists, thats who.
        Youre welcome.

  23. Hi wintermute

    “because we all know the only way guys can give sexual pleasure is
    by using their dicks right?”
    And we know that you are only joking ,right?

    If you are not joking then read up on how large percentage of women that archive orgasm by penis in vagina sex.
    (But I am sure you are only joking .)

  24. Mickie Skelton says:

    I find it really strange that in many of these responses, Mens’ experiences of gender are defined or questioned via their perceived relationship to womens’ experiences.
    (E.g. “Women are given great sexual latitude to do a number of different things” or “I think women are more prepared for this, less frightened” or even In other words, that these guys are saying “i feel like this, which is weird because women feel like/get to experience this”.
    But isn’t that making a massive assumption about what women actually do feel/experience, and furthermore doesn’t it run the risk of once again being a forum for men to speak about/define femininity?
    I think that a project of this nature has to remain respectful of the fact that the Feminist movement has undertaken so much effort to reclaim the definition of femininity from it’s relationship to masculinity, and more specifically from Men seeking to define what Women can and can’t be. If men want to talk about how it feels to be men, or to be defined as a man, then perhaps they would be best to speak solely from their own experiences and not posit ‘how women feel’.
    Furthermore I am really confused by this statement: “men are expected to gender perform in ways that women don’t have an equivalent”. Are you serious?! Men and male narratives are massively over privileged within a patriarchal society. Go to any pub on any corner in Melbourne, Australia and you will see a live band of male musicians pouring out their hearts. It’s the same in art galleries, its the same in politics. Men are given so! much leeway to express themselves – many of the women in my life even express their fatigue from being requested to support men in these journies! That is not to say that all aspects of masculinity are covered – far from it; there is definitely an enormous amount of work to be done to grow ourselves as men that have respect for ourselves, awareness of our privilege and solidarity for women. But suggesting that men’s experience of gender is so complicated as to not be understood by women seems to be incredibly patronising. I would love to hear a response on these issues from the authors. Thanks!
    SKELTON

    • But suggesting that men’s experience of gender is so complicated as to not be understood by women seems to be incredibly patronising.
      Actually its not patronising because if women really did understand men’s experiences of gender things wouldn’t be so confusing to everyone. The male experience and the female experience are different. They both have ups and downs and are nowhere near the same and you definitely can’t say that one really understands the other.

  25. Filip G says:

    The reason “men aren’t allowed to write about sexuality” is because they’re building you a house, cooking you dinner or fuckn your brains out.

  26. Not sure what your point is, but this opening paragraph speaks volumns doesn’t it? Men define their masculinity by being un-female and those identified with the traditional masculine construct get pretty damn aggressive and angry at the mere idea of possessing feminine traits, or being seen as equal to women, which they imagine is a step down.

  27. Thats a good point.

    Rachel, how would you feel emotionally. about wearing a beard, work boots or even appearing in a photograph attached to your blog without all your feminine game gimmickry?

Trackbacks

  1. unaimed says:

    “Never ask a guy to braid your hair. A study just came out that suggests men …”…

    Never ask a guy to braid your hair. A study just came out that suggests men feel angry when made to perform a “traditional feminine task” like, apparently, hair braiding. The researcher suggests this is because men are expected to gender perform in way…

  2. [...] Posted up at the Good Men Project is a discussion of The Man Project, a project run by Rachel Rabbit White discussing different aspects of male sexuality.  A lot of different kinds of men with different kinds of sexuality contribute to the project.  It's a really cool and I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the topic. [...]

  3. [...] What’s Missing from the Discussion about Male Sexuality? “I think there’s an interesting cultural struggle around masculinity going on. At least judging by the advertising that’s targeting my demographic, like the Old Spice commercials. There’s this sense that masculinity, as it’s traditionally articulated, is problematic. So, masculinity isn’t something we seriously address. Also, it’s not something that’s presented to us in a serious way, it’s presented to us comically.” [...]

  4. […] White, Rachel. “What’s Missing From the Discussion About Male Sexuality?” Good Man Project. May 21, 2011. http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/whats-missing-from-the-discussion-about-male-sexuality/ […]

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