This week Dear John address a moocher, a nude portrait of a wife, and sperm donation.
This article originally appeared at GoLocalProv.com.
Dear John,
At 56 I find myself well past a divorce and successfully independent. I have a good career and two adult children with whom I am close.
I have been in a relationship with a man for over five years. It was rocky at first. He was critical of me and hid things from me, including exploring other relationships. We broke up several times but somehow got back together through talking and counseling. I have learned much about myself, and he is a good partner. Nearing retirement and having gone through a divorce himself, he is in a weaker financial position than I am, and his income has been reduced considerably with the economic downturn. A year ago he sold his house and I allowed him to move in with me rent-free while he stabilized his situation. His work is starting to pick up, and I have bought a new house and would like him to contribute financially. He says he still does not have the money to contribute and will help out in other ways, like bringing in income by managing an apartment attached to the house, but this gnaws at me. I should be able to bring in that income regardless—it is one of the reasons I bought the property. I pay for all of our social life, many vacations and gifts. I made it clear years ago to him that I could never see myself being financially responsible for a partner, but he keeps going back to the fact that because my earnings are so much higher than his, what else can we do? I relented, and it looks like he is finding some work. Also, one of my children is going to need more financially from me this year.
I find myself feeling resentful when I see him buying things or going out with friends and paying his own way. I have a friend whose situation is the opposite of mine: her partner earns much less than she does and won’t do anything with her he can’t afford. What is the middle ground here? My partner would like to get married someday and though I would like to as well, I do not want to fund his retirement or healthcare needs.
Sincerely,
Generous To A Fault
Dear Generous,
You frame your question in terms of how much (or how little) money your boyfriend has, but the underlying question is whether he is taking advantage of you, isn’t it? In other words, if he were working hard at something he finds fulfilling and worthwhile, but contributed a relatively small amount to your household finances, would you be okay with that? You provide very little detail about what he does for work, how he spends his time, etc., but I get the distinct impression that you feel like he’s mooching off you. Is that the real problem here?
You have expectations about what you want a partner to bring to your relationship as far as economic security goes. There’s nothing wrong with that. Don’t let anyone tell you you’re being selfish, too money-focused, or anything else in an attempt to get you to ignore how you feel. Right now, your current partner isn’t living up to your expectations—if he were, you wouldn’t be resentful. That’s a problem. I would advise you to trust your gut. If you want to get married to someone without being his retirement and health insurance plan in addition to his wife, you should ask yourself if this is really the guy for you. You shouldn’t have to talk yourself into staying with someone.
Dear John,
My wife and I are part of an extended group of friends that includes a guy who is a talented, respected painter. His work isn’t hanging in the Met, but he’s not a hobbyist, either. The guy is a serious artist. We’re not particularly friendly with him; he’s a friend of friends; but we chatted with him for a while recently at a party. Well, a week or so later, he contacted my wife and asked her if she would consider posing nude for a painting for him. It was all very above board—he was polite and thoughtful in his email, it was sent to the email account our family shares, etc. But I think this guy is so full of shit. I feel like I’m the only one who sees through this great scam he’s got going—“I can see any woman I want nude because I’m an artist! All I have to do is ask!” And I’m not even allowed to suggest the possibility that sex might be his primary motivation. Seriously, you would be surprised at the benefit of the doubt everyone gives him, as if he is some chaste, pure being immune from physical desire. In my opinion, the guy’s a good painter who’s not above using his reputation to at least get attractive women to undress for him and then just see where it leads.
As you probably suspect, I am not in favor of this. My wife, also probably predictably, is flattered and thinks I’m being silly and immature. And our friends think I’m a philistine for the most part, although I do have a couple of them on my side. Where do you come out?
Signed,
Love The Art, Not The Artist
Dear Love The Art,
Based on the painters I’ve known, I’m sure many, if not most, would think nothing of exploiting their artistic reputations to hit on a woman—the straight ones, anyway. But why is it either/or? Can’t an artist be thinking, “God, she is so hot!” as he painstakingly creates his masterpiece?
To me, the more interesting question is, even if you’re exactly right, so what? You admit this man is a talented painter. So he sees your wife nude and, presumably, finds her attractive. Lusts after her, even. Why does that bother you so much? You don’t address the only issue that really matters here: what does she think? If she wants to do it, and it sounds like she does, she should do it. If that threatens you for some reason, that is the problem you should be giving some thought to.
Dear John,
About eight months ago, my husband of three years dropped a bit of a bomb: he was a sperm donor to make some money when he was in graduate school shortly before we met. He did it quite a few times, although he had stopped doing it (only because he got a better job and didn’t need the money any more) around the time we met.
He didn’t tell me before we were married, he says, because he didn’t think it was a big deal. As said, “It would be like telling you I masturbated before I met you—that’s the extent of it, and why would I even think to tell you that?” Also, he says he was a little embarrassed at being so desperate for money.
I did not receive this news particularly well, and I still am kind of upset by it. He describes it as masturbating into a container, but I think of it as being with a guy who has twenty kids running around. (I’m making that number up.) I had never given such things a lot of consideration, but the fact that he has children that he is so separated from—the anonymity of it—appalls me. To make it even more complicated and emotionally charged, I want to have a child together and he doesn’t want to, at least not right now, and exactly when is an open question. Irony of ironies, I know. So I feel like this is taking on a weightier role in our marriage than he ever anticipated it would. (He recently said as much expressing his regret that he ever brought it up at all.) So how can I put this in perspective and forget about it as it deserves … any thoughts?
Sincerely,
No Kids For Me
Dear No Kids For Me,
While I agree this was something your husband should have shared with you before you got married, I was wondering why it was so upsetting to you. Until I came to the end of your letter. Did you know you had different attitudes toward having kids when you got married? Did one of you have a change of heart or mind? This is a very, very big issue for any couple, and I think it’s inextricably linked to your reaction to the sperm donation revelation. I don’t think you should forget about it at all. I think you should explore the connection between these two issues with your husband. And if that goes nowhere, then with a marriage therapist.
You may also enjoy: Dear John: Relationships 101
Photo credit: Flickr / Walt Stoneburner
About John Simpson, GoLocalProv.com
May I just be the first (of many, I presume) to point out that the first letter is a prime example of one of the major issues in the “The End of Men” discussion that gets short shrift in the controversy over the title. Namely, that were the genders reversed, the man would be expected to provide for the woman, and to be her retirement plan. Yet, now that the economy and social factors have changed and made many women the higher earners, many of them refuse to take on the provider role.
Why is turnabout not fair play?
I don’t get it either. As an engineer, I fully expect to make much more money than my boyfriend, who’s dream is to open his own game design company, and I expect to fund a higher percentage of our life than he does. If this woman wants to live with a lifestyle her boyfriend can’t afford, and wants to do it with him, then she should be willing to pay for it, especially if he is working at something he is passionate about, but doesn’t pull in much money.
That being said, being mooched off of does suck. But this guy doesn’t seem like a moocher: they live together, they want to get married. Combining finances is part of that, no matter who makes more.
Women have expanded their options, but not their preferences. They want to be high-level breadwinners, but they’re still only attracted to higher-level breadwinners.
They need to get over it. They’re pricing themselves out of the market if they insist on sticking with the old standards.
I understand the 2nd letters view, someone is asking to see his wife naked and pretty much document it in a painting.If it was me I wouldn’t feel comfortable at all, his wife should see it upsets him and not go since surely the marriage is more important that stripping off for other men.
Did anyone else find the final letter a bit… unreasonable? I mean she makes it sound like he’s had sex with 20 women and got them all pregnant and abandoned the children when in fact he’s helping women who can’t find a male partner to have a child. I doubt he can legally even find out who got even the sperm so its not like its his choice to be in the random childrens lives.
I think the last letter is a lot of hand wringing over nothing. Masturbating into a cup for a few bucks is not a huge deal. That there are kids out there that are genetically related to him, but not his responsibility… also not a huge deal. Seems like she wants kids and resents that he already has some, in a sense.
I think the posing nude question has more gray area than Dear John’s answer allowed for. Clearly, yes, there’s something going on within the husband’s mind that he needs to address himself. On the other hand, I think he has a right to express some reservations and concerns, in a respectful way, to his wife. I think it’s reasonable to ask her to have a conversation about it. There may be a way she can pose nude AND he can feel more comfortable about it. She doesn’t need his permission, but it would be respectful to hear him out. This is not simply his problem to get over.
It may be that the husband, deep down, is most upset by his feeling like his opinion makes no difference at all or that his feelings just don’t seem to matter. Just his being listened to could make all the difference in the world.
I suspect the husband feels like his wife would never pose nude for him but is happy to pose nude for someone else, and that’s a pretty lousy feeling to have.
I think the guy in the second letter should split the difference. If she wants to do the portrait don’t disagree with her in the slightest bit….but if he doesn’t trust the artist go with her for the sessions.
About that third letter.
While I agree this was something your husband should have shared with you before you got married, ….
Why?
Why should he have shared the info on his past sperm donations? Unless the resulting children are in his life in some way (even child support since that would have bearing on his financial status) why should he have told?
There was a post here a while back where a guy was writing in about how he didn’t like the fact that his current girlfriend had had what he thought was too many partners before she met him. A common theme in the comments of that post was the number of men she’s slept with should have no bearing on what he had going with her now.
Honestly I think this is the same deal. As far as I can tell the fact that he donated sperm in the past has no bearing on what she has going with him now.
I know everyone isn’t a fan of flipping but let’s do it in this case.
A guy writes in saying he is bothered by the fact that his wife donated some of her eggs before he met her.
Would we be saying that she should have told him before hand? I hope not.
And I don’t think it’s right to try to tie the fact that he donated sperm in the past to the fact that at this moment in time he doesn’t want to have kids. I’ll agree that their differences in wanting kids is an issue that needs to be looked into but I don’t think it’s fair of her to bootstrap them together.
She is basically saying she is upset that her husband donated sperm in the past but doesn’t want kids with her when she wants them. It seems like she is trying to say that it’s not fair to her that he was so willy nilly with his sperm in the past but doesn’t to share it with her now.
Again imagine a man writing in saying he is upset that his wife donated her eggs before they met and doesn’t want to have kids at this time. I can hear the, “Her body, her choice” crowd tuning up, and I’d agree with them.
I love how the second letter nearly completely disregards the proposed painting subject’s feelings, desires and judgement of the situation. Maybe the LW should just find a nice tower with a sturdy locked door somewhere out in the countryside for his wife.
Her feelings can be one of two things. If she doesn’t want to do it, it would still be a valid question to ask if the indecent proposal was appropriate. If she does want to do it, it would still be a valid question to ask if the husband’s gut feelings about the indecent proposal are unreasonable. So you see, no matter how the wife feels, it doesn’t change the validity of the question at all. She can write her own questions herself, if she is so inclined.
in re Sperm Donor- anonymous sperm donors don’t have any kids running around. Most guys who knock up a baby momma don’t have any kids. Kids are little people who’s diapers are changed by parents. Maybe anonymous sperm donors have genome footprints…
in re Naked Picture- if you’re into it for the art you can paint landscapes, for the pussy you paint nudes. There is a pretty good chance your wife wants to fuck George Cloony on some fantasy level, which may or may not happen…..
There is a pretty good chance that this painter turns her crank on some level & a very good chance they will fuck- probably a better chance than her sleeping with George . If it really bothers you and she proceeds you should suggest she take her bag & leave the key.
Yeah if she goes ahead you should probably think about using condoms for a while…
Regarding the 2nd letter, I love the damned if you do, damned if you don’t response. So artistic men are rabid philanderers, but shame on men for trying to have an opinion about it.
“If she wants to do it, and it sounds like she does, she should do it.”
And what if her husband is uncomfortable with that? Should he also do whatever pleases him, regardless of what his wife thinks? Perhaps he can take up painting and invite the neighbor’s wife to pose nude in their living room for 3-hour sessions every day after work.
Yeah, the artist scenario raised red flags. The wife claims to have some intellectual detachment about the whole thing, but Mr. Artistic has made a big deal out of appreciating her with his talents. It’s a grand gesture which few workaday husbands are capable of outside of diamond commercials and over-the-top romantic chick-flick type movies. She gets to leave her mundane existence and hang out with a dashing artist type, she’s flattered to death, and hubbie doesn’t know how to match. I recommend they politely decline and start having some regular date nights and marital funtime. Mr. Artistic may have sensed some marital discontentment and would like to take advantage.
Generous:
I agree with some of the sentiment about gender roles and that this would be a much smaller issue if the gender was reversed. However, I think the greater concern is the strength of the relationship itself. The language used by the writer already indicates a rift. After he sold his house, “allowed” him to move in; “I” bought a new house; doesnt want to pay for “his” healthcare and retirement.
If it’s your house, why should he chip in? If’s he’s chipping in, he is entitled to equity. The managing of an apartment is a decent tradeoff if he can handle a lot of handyman work, it adds up (go out and get some professional quotes for fair market value).
For social life, vacations, gifts, this is all completely optional, if you dont want to pay for it, then stop expecting these things. If he insists you both continue and that you pay for it, then it crosses into mooching. After marriage, finances get merged and percentage of income of each person should be contributing should be negotiated. At this point, it’s “our” retirement.
Artist:
The response to the letter was atrocious. The line of reasoning is that: 1] artists are known to take advantage 2] there is no reason to believe he cant do art and lust 3] The wife can do what she wants 4] why are you trying to control your wife?
Being nude, from an artistic perspective, is generally used to invoke vulnerability or sexuality, both of which would cause a man to feel uncomfortable, on an instinctual level, to consent to his mate being intimate (see emotional infidelity) with another male. This is completely independent of whether he is allowed to sit in (a real pro will always be accommodating to significant others).
Making the writer feel guilty for his feelings is just wrong, as all men would be affected by this differently. While his wife is entitled to make decisions about her own body/time, they are a committed couple and his feelings should not be dismissed off hand, even if he cannot articulate exactly why he feels that way. Yes, she can do whatever the hell she wants, but if she knowingly does something that her SO has made clear make him uncomfortable, what does that say about her and the relationship?
I see this nude modelling as the equivalent of a guy: watching porn, going to a strip club, dinner alone with an ex; which some women will be ok with and some will not. In these situations, most people will say it is ok only if she is ok with it, so why cant the writer object to his wife being intimate with another man? IMO, if he is against it, it becomes a case of emotional infidelity.
Donor]
Intellectually, it’s a clear cut case of his body, his choice, no notice needs to be given to the wife. In reality, there are obvious signs of other underlying issues on family planning, with both people not being on the same page. It would be better if there was a set goal to mark when to start trying for a baby, such as $xxxxxx amount in the bank, she turns 35, when the iphone8 comes out, etc. The important thing is to have something both are comfortable with.
Regarding the husband upset about the wife being willing to post nude, i read in this two very distinct issues:
One, that he believes he is somehow not allowed to have an opinion (“And I’m not even allowed to suggest the possibility that sex might be his primary motivation.”), which in a relationship creates a power differential that is not good for it.
Two, and more critical, is the enormous amount of projection from the husband onto the artist, beginning with the above quote, and all the rest of the ideas and assumptions he makes about the artist’s motives. The intensity of the indignation and upset are signs to me of both his projection and fear.
While i wouldn’t scoff at his profound discomfort, i would encourage his wife to lovingly explore with him exactly what he is NOT saying about this; that could range from “i am jealous — of either or both of you,” “I am threatened by this situation because i know what I would want to do were i the artist.” to “Does she find his offer more sexy than i am and how does that affect us/my self-image/her need for me, etc etc etc.”
There are a lot of complex issues being triggered here for BOTH of them, and the only way i see thru this is to have an open discussion in which both partners know they can speak their FEELINGS without fear of being shamed. It is a great opportunity for them to actually grow more intimate in all ways — if they are willing to risk being exposed. This has NOTHING to do with the artist and his mind-set.