Josh Kross and the NYC Dads Group look at “comical misandry” and the involved father.
NYC Dads Group posted this article on their site after frequent guest blogger, Josh K., aka The Angry SAHD, watched this video clip that shows the first dad ever to appear on iVillage. Josh was angry because there was an opportunity to shatter some stereotypes about fatherhood that just didn’t happen. A version of this article has been posted on both NYC Dads and The Angry SAHD site.
The word is getting out about the “new” father. Involved, sharing equally or even taking a larger role than the mother in the raising of kids. NYC DADS Group is filled with men like this; they’re competent with their kids, competent at their jobs if they have them, competent with running the house. Dads, employed or not, across the country are making parenting a more important part of their life.
Now, while Cohen gets a great opportunity to set the record straight, the interview was set up in a way to reinforce the stereotypes. We can all do better. We’ve put together a list of a few things to think about when being an involved dad, and especially when discussing it, whether it’s on TV or the playground. We hope these will move the conversation forward and help us move away from 1950′s clichés.
1) Don’t be the boob. Listen, just because expectations are low, doesn’t mean you have to live up to them. We get a lot more credit for simple things just because people expect us to fail. Everyone wants to make the Mr. Mom jokes about burning clothing while ironing, burning dinner, and burning your kids up because you forgot the sunscreen. Don’t let this be true, and don’t let other people get away with accusing you.
Saying that after you “mess up that laundry 3-4 times you don’t have to do it again” might get a laugh, but it makes us all look like an idiot. Most dads we know are excellent at managing their households, cooking, and making sure everything that needs to get done, gets done. Victoria Perico, of Savvymommy.com, says that “if we leave anything up to a dad that’s major, most likely it will fall apart.” Not only is this complete nonsense, but it makes me wonder why she would tolerate her husband being like that. Our responsibility as an involved father is two-fold. One, don’t be that useless guy. Play your part and take control over these things. Make sure things get done. Two, when someone calls you incompetent, don’t laugh. Correct them.
2) Be involved in everything – not just major discipline. Don’t just be there to back mom up when “it gets escalated.” Being involved with the discipline (and education, entertainment, and everything else) of your children is your job. You want your kids to respect you? Be there from the beginning. When posed with the question about fathers’ parenting skills, it’s not best to start by explaining that you let your wife do the “baseline” parenting. To kick this reputation, we can’t be the Don Drapers of the world, or even the Ward Cleavers. We need to make sure that we are there for the school events, scraped knees, and the time outs. We are not just the nuclear option for our wives when they get overwhelmed.
3) Be on top of your stuff. One of the more offensive points in the video is when Amy Oztan, of selfishmom.com, says “Let’s face it, I think that in most relationships, men just suck at logistics.” She describes it in the context of her husband. Points like this need to be challenged. While this may be true in her household, perhaps some of it is because she tolerates it. She says “there’s always that extra layer of stress,” but she says nothing about trying to get her husband involved in doing those things. When we allow negative behavior from our partners without trying to address it, it is also our fault.
For starters, handling “logistics” and the small details is not a trait unique to one sex. I’ve known plenty of amazing male and female project managers, which is essentially what parenting is. Just because in one person’s household, such as Oztan’s, the woman is better at it, does not mean the rule holds true for all couples. In our community of active fathers, we have men who run all of the details of their homes while others take a more shared role. That said, part of being involved is being on top of the things your kids need. Be a counter-example to Oztan’s point, and then correct people when they make such assertions.
For better or worse, part of the “job” of being an involved dad is helping to change the incorrect impressions people have of all dads. Set an example, live that example, and correct people when they are wrong.
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About: NYC Dads is run by Lance Somerfeld and Matt Schneider, where Josh Kross is a frequent guest blogger.
Lance Somerfeld has been an at-home dad for three years, and resides in New York City with his wife Jessica and their three year old boy, Jake. Lance founded the NYC Dads Group in November, 2008 as a social outlet to avoid isolation and as a necessary resource for fathers. The goal of this diverse community of over 400 caring dads is to provide engaged, active, and involved fathers an opportunity to socialize and support each other as they navigate parenthood. The goal of this diverse community of over 400 caring dads is to provide engaged, active, and involved fathers an opportunity to socialize and support each other as they navigate parenthood. Lance also serves as a coordinator for Daddyshome, Inc., the national at-home dads network. Before choosing to stay home with his son, Lance worked in Corporate Finance and as an elementary school teacher in the Bronx.
Matt Schneider has been an at-home dad for six years, and lives with his wife and two boys in lower Manhattan. Matt is a founding member and co-organizer for the NYC Dads Group. Matt plans workshops, screenings, and lectures with parenting, family, and education experts on behalf of the group. Matt also serves as an advisor to the ThirdPath Institute, a non-profit that works with individuals, families, and organizations to integrate work and life. Prior to fatherhood, Matt was a teacher and a product manager for a major telecommunications company.
About Josh Kross
Vocalyze
Josh, Great piece. Thanks for sharing and challenging the stereotypes and misconceptions. Also great to see this wonderful synergy between NYC Dads group and the Good Men Project.
Josh, great piece! Really spot on points that were on target with my own thoughts after seeing the piece. And I’m glad you pointed out how that “haha, oh he’s just a man” mindset is more harmful toward men then the joking facade lets on. As a woman, I found it pretty bian that they went on to talk bout “mommy wine” instead of taking an opportunity to talk more directly to their “first man ever” guest.
A year ago next week, my family was featured on the Today Show for a segment about SAHDs pegged to Marie Claire’s unfortunately framed story about SAHDS being the new “trophy husband” status symbols for alpha moms. Of the guys interviewed for the piece, the ultimate editorial framing of which was not what we’d expected, I volunteered for the video segment. I thought that the videographer, who hadn’t read the piece, did a great job, and that Matt Lauer, in his cross-examining of the magazine editor and “expert witness” psychologist after the video segment, did a great job exploding the editor’s framing (and referring back to me in the video in the process). So really, in terms of how not to screw up the public conversation, a lot depends on the luck of having sympathetic allies involved in the set-up and presentation of the discussion. We can’t assume folks’ll have our back or be on the same page, and if they aren’t and we’re all by ourselves, especially if we’re on their media turf, it’s very easy to get steamrolled no matter our intentions. Anyway, here’s that piece (scroll to the bottom for the video): http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38628278/ns/today-parenting/#.TjxIGs1qyhc
I know Adam from his blog and from running in the same circles and I’m really disappointed the show turned out like this. If someone sitting next to me told me “men just suck at logistics” I definitely would’ve had something to say to that bullshit. I guess why that’s not why I’m invited on TV, I’d actually express an opinion that would cause controversy instead of playing into the “we’re men and we’re all idiots” stereotype.
I would have called bullshit too… and would have probably said worse. And that’s why no one would want me to be on a show.
I’m sorry that she got a bad husband who sucks at logistics. I’ll bet half the reason that he doesn’t help her with that stuff is that she doesn’t let him, or criticizes him when he does, so he ends up giving up. Face it, doing anything around the house is not difficult work, just tedious ad repetitive. Learning to do laundry without screwing it up is as easy as anything else.
If I was a mom, I’d be ticked off at the whole “Mr. Mom” thing… that’s saying that cooking, cleaning, general housework is the woman’s job, and a man who does it is assuming the female role. Time to move past an idiot term from a lame sexist 80′s comedy where the outcome was the Mom realizing that she couldn’t handle the corporate world.
All I can say is live and learn…. If you know me, then you know part of my application video to ivillage was to be better then homer simpsons and al bundies in terms of fathering, and fatherhood. This was filmed twice, highly edited to the fact that I only had a sentence or two per question, instead of the whole answer that I gave.
I hear ya. And many of our group members have been in the same place with media segments. We can’t let them roll over us with the BS, and we can’t let self important mommy bloggers set the tone about dads.
Agreed Adam! – In the past, it has amazed us how we could be pitched an angle from the media for an article/segment that seems progressive or even groundbreaking…and the final package is a formulaic piece that they believe the “general audience” will enjoy most – footage from the 80′s film Mr. Mom, etc.
Fortunately, the explosion of dad bloggers, news articles focusing on fatherhood, dads using social media, communities of dads sprouting up across nation and world, and the fact that so many dads out there are pushing even harder to carve out more time with their kids…the media will catch on sooner rather than later.
Perhaps, iVillage might be interested in fielding a Panel of Dads for a future Conversation thread segment to accomplish the voice of the modern day father best. Just sayin…
I’ve expressed my views, at length, on NYCDadsGroup’ blog, but suffice to say I was very disappointed in the segment. It does a disservice to dads and moms to perpetuate negative, old stereotypes. (Adam, I’m sorry if I doubted you. I’d like to see the complete video.)
It’s unfortunate that a large, and largely good brand like iVillage doesn’t put their reach and power to better use.
Here is the link to Lisa’s terrific guest post:
http://www.nycdadsgroup.com/2011/08/more-comical-misandry-and-involved.html
This is just sad.
i’ve been echoing this sentiment for years…
http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_273_Stay_At_Home_Dad.mp3/view
If your husband isn’t helping out with the kids and house to your satisfaction, it’s most likely because either you are not letting him or — face it — you made a poor choice in marital partners.
Or, as a corollary to the 2nd one, you let him get away with it.
Ouch! Adam, as a man that was just painful to watch! If they ever invite you back just remeber, on these parenting shows, moms don’t view you as an equal male parent. They view you as an idiotic parent. Respond to all questions factually and defensively, if necessary. Leave the laughs at home.
This is how to move the conversation about modern dads forward:
http://www.wpix.com/news/morningnews/wpix-mom-word-fathers,0,1358285.story
Adam, thanks for standing up for Dads everywhere! I saw your response in New York Family and want to applaud you. My husband is such a great father for our son and I’m always grateful for and astonished at what a wonderful job he does taking care of Nathan when I have to work my Saturday shift and how involved he is with Nathan’s day to day life. I remember when Nathan was first born and HIS mother told me that I should never leave Brian home alone with Nathan because you can’t trust a father to do anything. I told her she was wrong and still firmly stand by that. Brian loves Nathan so much, and it makes me so proud watching him step up to the plate for his son every day. I saw the comments on iVillage…My opinion… just women who are displacing the discontent that they have in their own relationships on other dads. Go on and continue being super =).