Frederick Marx wants you to take all your anger and put it toward something you’re passionate about.
When I moved to Northern California from Chicago in 1998 I experienced culture shock. I went to places like Harbin Hot Springs – a sixties time capsule where young male and female gods and goddesses wander around nude, flowers literally in their hair, relaxed, beatific smiles on their faces. I experienced some of the San Francisco party scene. From multiple available institutions, I immersed myself in Buddhist study and practice, hearing inspirational teachers, attending numerous workshops and retreats. At dinner parties, past lives and aliens living among us were standard topics of conversation.
But the shock I experienced most deeply was in the ManKind Project men’s community. I experienced so many passive, listless, receded men. Men who seemed to have receded from the exterior of their bodies to a dim, cobwebbed space in the inner regions of their brain. What happened to these men? What was going on here?
For those unfamiliar, The ManKind Project (aka New Warriors) is a men’s personal growth organization. The purpose of MKP is to create a safer world by growing “better” men.
The circumstances I left behind in Chicago were quite the opposite of what I discovered in California. The men I worked with on a regular basis in and for the ManKind Project were “big” men, powerful men – alive, engaged, full of humor and passion, emotionally available, mission driven, fierce and unafraid. What accounted for this difference?
Perhaps the Chicago men were Type-A males and the California men were not. But I don’t find those kind of classifications helpful. What I do find helpful is the neo-Jungian system of archetypes. Starting with Jung himself, key thinkers like Joseph Campbell, Mircea Eliade, Robert Bly, Michael Meade, James Hillman, and many others have helped synthesize the wisdom of indigenous cultures to make it useful for us. Robert Moore is key. His book “King, Warrior, Magician, Lover” is the starting point for much of my present-day understanding of the human psyche. I’ve worked with men and boys in MKP, other workshops, prisons, juvenile detention centers, orphanages, in high schools and in family homes for 16 years now. In each circumstance I’ve tried to bring some of what I’ve learned about archetypal energies to the mix.
The ideal is to have fully developed capacities in all four quadrants. This applies to both men and women. So in any instant the mature individual can access whatever talent or capacity is traditionally the hallmark of any one quadrant: compassion, action, intellect, vision… whatever. So I applied this framework to my own understanding of the culture shock I experienced in northern California.
Simply put, the Chicago men tended to have more developed Warrior sides. They were more assertive, clear, direct… they were doers. A lot of them were lawyers, business and professional men. They didn’t shrink from conflict. This may have been due to a tougher urban environment. Unfortunately, many didn’t have well-developed King or sovereign energy to mitigate against the excesses of their Warriors. So some were over-developed Warriors – aggressive and in-your-face.
The northern California men I experienced had under-developed Warriors. Many were not good at setting healthy boundaries. They seemed lethargic, without much drive. Overly cerebral. Some had difficulties making decisions. On more than one occasion it shocked me how difficult it could be for one man to make a simple decision, like “can you still join us if we move the meeting from Tuesday to Thursday?” Getting to a simple yes or no could involve a tiresome round of phone calls and emails.
I was further shocked when I met many of their wives. These women were tough, directive, forceful. By and large the men were following their lead rather than co-creating an egalitarian relationship. It’s one thing to consult your partner on decisions. But I saw quite a few men defer completely to their partners to make decisions.
I guess you could say I experienced the flip side of what has been the historical norm for 5,000 years of Western history – i.e. I experienced subservient males and dominant females. I felt sad for many of the men. I felt the ache of their disempowerment.
This experience dovetailed with some of what David Deida talks about in his book Way of the Superior Man. Successful relationships where parties are co-equals, equally empowered, are those that retain some degree of polarity. Put simply, if a man does not access and utilize his own Warrior energy, his partner will fill the vacuum with hers. When a man accesses his own Warrior energy, his partner can relax more. She tends to feel safer. She is afforded more breathing space for what traditionally would be called her femininity.
This is not to say that when a man fully realizes his Warrior energy that the couple is no longer co-equal, that the men are now running the show. A warrior not in service to a strong King and Queen, to the sovereign energy in both of them, can quickly become a savage. So in co-equal relationships men and women decide together to what uses their respective Warriors are put.
In addition, I never think it’s a woman’s fault if a man exhibits the signs of disempowerment. If he feels emasculated, it’s his fault. (At least a white, upper middle class, heterosexual man. Men of color, gay and trans men have profound historical reasons for feeling emasculated by society.) Unlike women, a white, upper-middle class, straight man hasn’t inherited thousands of years of acculturated disempowerment and the deep sexist socialization woven into the functioning of every institution. At most he’s experienced (and felt confused or threatened by) 30-40 years of a balancing of the historical scales.
It’s he himself who hasn’t figured out how to properly access and harness his Warrior energy. That energy that says no 4,000 pound automobile will stop me from freeing this pinned child; that says no crooked government institutions or morally bankrupt corporations will stop me from seeking justice by exposing corruption.
So to all you men out there feeling victimized by women, or your notions about feminism, I suggest taking all that anger and resentment, all that shadow Warrior energy that makes you want to lash out at women, or at men who stand up for women, and transmute it into fevered action for a cause that you’re most passionate about, that most serves your greatest good, that is best guided by your King.
That’s what I do when I write articles like this.
Frederick Marx is interested in starting an advice column on all things male related. We invite you to place suggestions, or specific questions, below on issues you would like to see addressed.
—Photo babasteve/Flickr
About Frederick Marx
You don’t like men fighting for their rights?
Fine. I will then. And there are more and more women like me every day.
“Unlike women, a white, upper-middle class, straight man hasn’t inherited thousands of years of acculturated disempowerment and the deep sexist socialization woven into the functioning of every institution. At most he’s experienced (and felt confused or threatened by) 30-40 years of a balancing of the historical scales.”
Men historically and currently have faced being socialized as the disposable sex.
Aside from that your article is… schizophrenic. On the one hand you decry the ‘disempowerment that women face historically’ on the other hand you promote the very socialization(masculine STRONG! feminine WEAK!) that leads women to a loss of agency in their lives and very likely was one reason why men dominated the public sphere historically and currently.
So you want men to promote patriarchal attitudes in their lives at the same time as you say they should feel bad about the end result of those self same attitudes reflected in larger society: namely patriarchy.
If I were a man this shit would seriously piss me off. As it is, I’m not, so it just confuses my little lady brains. Tee hee!
I actually think he was talking about the men who are fighting for entitlement. There’s a difference between rights and entitlement; some MRAs are confused about that.
>There’s a difference between rights and entitlement; some MRAs are confused about that.
He’s saying that the only problems men have relate to the ‘balancing of the historical scales’. In other words there are no legitimate concerns for men. In other worlds men’s rights are identical to men’s entitlements, and men deserve neither.
i reread the “Top 10 Men’s Rights Issues” (http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/the-top-10-issues-of-mens-rights/) to see if I missed anything and how I can sympathize with MRAs more. Many of the points outlined there, to me, appears to be a defensive reaction to each of the areas feminists have gained grounds on.
Maybe I can explain it this way too: Men have been making the rules on how the world runs and women have been pawns and subservient to their games, now because feminists and women are breaking free from this stronghold and being empowered through gains in women’s rights (balancing the scales). This has had negative impact on some of the male population, like MRAs, who feel threatened by it, so they are returning to the playing field with NEW RULES, aka men’s rights, to try to offset the gains by feminists/women and make sure men will always come out ahead. i feel that most of the stuff men’s rights are advocating for, are motivated by paranoia and competitiveness. The Ice-Age would arrive here before women ever rule the world, so no worries there. Anyway I doubt women want to rule the world, we’re more satisfied with living in peace and harmony; and we find successes in family and careers.
What the top ten men’s rights issues failed to address, is men’s MENTAL HEALTH and addictions (which sometimes go hand in hand) and that should be a top men’s rights priority! Here are the facts to support this:
- There is no gender distinction here, but this worthwhile to note: “The first ever systematic description of global disability arising in youth, published in 2011, found that among 10 to 24 year olds nearly half of all disability (current and as estimated to continue) was due to mental and neurological conditions, including substance use disorders and conditions involving self-harm”.
- “The lifetime prevalence rate of alcohol dependence is more than twice as high in men, and men are more than three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder” (women suffer more depression though). More males than females suffer: schizophrenia (especially in teenage years), narcissism, ADHD, asperger…
- Men’s prisons are being expanded to accommodate the influx of criminals. Also mass killings are perpetrated by males with mental disorders. Rapists and pedophilia, in my opinion should be deemed as medical mental illness (now this is something psychiatric experts should start labeling for what it is).
Mental health is a legitimate concern and I’m shocked it is not a men’s right issue. I guess it doesn’t do good for men’s image
One of men’s right issues is “boys education”. MRAs blame girls are getting ahead and leaving boys behind (using this argument instead of the real issue of mental disorders or disabilities). Sure when females succeed it is done with evil intentions to bring boys down. *sarcasm*.
Given that boys and young men tend to suffer much more mental illness at that age than girls, perhaps it is worthwhile for men’s advocates to demand services to help screen boys during their school years for early detection of these disorders or create clinics to encourage anyone to come in for free assessments. Men’s rights should also be creating conversation, support and awareness about mental illness to help get rid of the associated stigma, so more boys and men can be encourage to seek help. Taking these proactive actions can help prevent further stress on that individual and on family and others/society.
My brother dropped out of highschool as a result of his diagnosis of mental illness, not at screened at school but through a negative action/event, which we had to report him to authorities for and it was then that doctors made the diagnosis. Had his illness been screened at school, then he could have receive proper treatment quickly and continued on with his education. I know he must have felt “lost” and alone and ashamed; so right after his diagnosis (I think at 18) he moved out of my parents’ house and didn’t want contact with anybody. Most people with mental illness are in denial of their illness and don’t get treatment.
You mean stuff like this? (http://whitehouseboysmen.org/blog/the-proposal/introduction)
Or like this? (http://www.internationalmensday.com/)
You said:
One of men’s right issues is “boys education”. MRAs blame girls are getting ahead and leaving boys behind (using this argument instead of the real issue of mental disorders or disabilities). Sure when females succeed it is done with evil intentions to bring boys down. *sarcasm*.
But in that very “Top 10 Men’s Rights” post you link to the education portion said,
Boys are being misdiagnosed with ADD/ADHD from the time they enter grade school. They are falling behind in math and literacy, and the number of boys going for college degrees is incredibly low—something needs to be done about that. By expanding help and assistance for boys’ education, we can continue to help boys learn to enjoy school and continue learning, leading to better futures for themselves and society.
I don’t see any blame of females in there. Hell females aren’t even mentioned in there. How did you get that? I apprecieate you tacking on the mental health part but….
Now as for talking about mental health I do like what Warren Ferrell is proposing here. (You mean stuff like this? (http://whitehouseboysmen.org/blog/the-proposal/introduction) No its not the solution all in and of itself but its a good start.
Even in the part where he speaks ill of feminism:
Feminism has harmed men. You can debate whether it was the goal of feminism to bring men down, or if it was an unintended consequence. When we started helping girls more in school, boys were pushed aside. In recent years, we’ve seen protests against anonymity for rape accusations, denial of false accusations as an issue, and fathers’ rights groups demonized for wanting power instead of time with their children and fair alimony/child-support payments. We can’t undo what has been done, but, by dealing with the parts of feminism that are anti-male, we can prevent further damage.
He’s not trying to throw the entire movement out the window, he specifically says the anti-male parts.
His article is politically correct, no arguments here. He actually did a nice job of advocating for MRAs in a positive and non-condescending tone towards both genders, but that doesn’t make all of them worthwhile of top ten men’s rights…where is mental health issue in all of that (not just ADHD snuck in with education)???. But that type of voice is quite different from the MRAs who post on here…what I wrote comes from those impressions they give. There just seems to be jealousy, bitterness, blaming… and the fact that the second top ten men’s rights is “feminism”, is ridiculous. Good grief! Personally, I think men have more serious problems to contend with than feminism, for instance: the state of men’s mental health globally should one of the highest priorities.
He actually did a nice job of advocating for MRAs in a positive and non-condescending tone towards both genders, but that doesn’t make all of them worthwhile of top ten men’s rights…
Of course not. And that’s why just like we wouldn’t try to say that one feminist’s listing of important issues represents the entire movement I wouldn’t be so quick to say that same can be done of this one MRAs list (even if it includes the results of a poll, which includes multiple people).
where is mental health issue in all of that (not just ADHD snuck in with education)???.
That’s why I said I appreciate you bringing it up. And also why I mentioned that link to that proposal Warren Ferrell started up.
There just seems to be jealousy, bitterness, blaming… and the fact that the second top ten men’s rights is “feminism”, is ridiculous.
True that there are many that share that sentiment again I won’t pain the entire movement with that brush. And also let’s not pretend that feminism is some entity that’s void of any negativity.
Is the movement flawed? Yes. Are they beyond use. No way.
The Warren Ferrell proposal makes some very good points, so I hope for future of boys and men, it gets approved. However, he seems to have left out the important contribution of feminists towards raising the profiles of girls…and seems to have a bias because he attributes girls successes solely to:
-”The U.S. has been a world leader in addressing girls’ needs.58″
- “Fortunately, teacher training and efforts on behalf of girls have helped girls in almost every area..”
Warren Farrel, I think is over-inflating this information to help push his proposal forward. Feminists had no role?
Throughout my schooling, i have never witnessed girls receiving special attention or privileges over boys, in their studies or other. There was always peer tutoring and enrichment classes available which were gender neutral. I do remember, the education system, was and have been encouraging girls to get into more male-dominated studies, such as math and science…but they had to get good grades just like anyone else to be accepted.
That depends on why feminists were “left out”.
Did he simply not mention them, was he actively trying to avoid mentioning them, or is he actually trying to say they played no role (which I think might be a stretch of an implication at best)?
I can’t imagine this being any different that a feminist talking about some sort of progress but not specifically mentioning non-feminists who contributed to said progress.
Throughout my schooling, i have never witnessed girls receiving special attention or privileges over boys, in their studies or other.
I did. In the form of girls being called on more often (and I know for a fact many a feminist has commented on how boys are called on more often in class as if it were some universal truth), when someone would be punished there would be times when despite doing the same thing the boy would be punished more often, etc….
So while special attention to girls may not have happened everywhere…it most certainly did happen.
“He’s saying that the only problems men have relate to the ‘balancing of the historical scales’. In other words there are no legitimate concerns for men. In other worlds men’s rights are identical to men’s entitlements, and men deserve neither.”
Not at all. In fact, this is so wrong I don’t know where to begin.
Today I learned that the presence of a Y chromosome, heterosexual attraction and lack of melanin means I can never legitamitely feel disempowered. Must be something to the fact that superman was white, straight and male. I always thought it was something about a yellow sun and the fact he was from krypton.
I think your paragraph here is where all of the commentators are taking unbrage:
“In addition, I never think it’s a woman’s fault if a man exhibits the signs of disempowerment. If he feels emasculated, it’s his fault. (At least a white, upper middle class, heterosexual man. Men of color, gay and trans men have profound historical reasons for feeling emasculated by society.) Unlike women, a white, upper-middle class, straight man hasn’t inherited thousands of years of acculturated disempowerment and the deep sexist socialization woven into the functioning of every institution. At most he’s experienced (and felt confused or threatened by) 30-40 years of a balancing of the historical scales.”
Soooo, if a straight white guy feels disempowered due to a railroad divorce proceedings he didnt want where he is suddenly relegated to nothing more than a wallet with only 4 days and 4 evenings a month to be a dad its his own fault? I expect most of these guys would be pretty ticked off if you told him he’s only confused by a balancing of historical scales and not really victimized. For another example- the Duke Lacrosse team. Should we have told those guys that they shouldnt have felt disempowered when they were thrown under the bus by a lunatic and an unethical prosecutor?
You basically ERASED millions of people’s experiences with this paragraph. Do I think straight white men IN GENERAL have it easier than gay or minority men? Sure do. BUT I’m not so naive to think that a straight white guy cannot be victimized by someone. Individuals have experiences, not demographic groups. The variation of experiences within ANY demographic group is incredibly broad.
Unlike women, a white, upper-middle class, straight man hasn’t inherited thousands of years of acculturated disempowerment and the deep sexist socialization woven into the functioning of every institution. At most he’s experienced (and felt confused or threatened by) 30-40 years of a balancing of the historical scales.
This sounds like you’re saying that the issues with men didn’t start until about the time my dad finished high school. Before that everything was just fine and dandy for men right?
It’s he himself who hasn’t figured out how to properly access and harness his Warrior energy. That energy that says no 4,000 pound automobile will stop me from freeing this pinned child; that says no crooked government institutions or morally bankrupt corporations will stop me from seeking justice by exposing corruption.
Just like women who have not properly accessed their own energies part of the reason some (or maybe a lot) of men haven’t is simply because they were not allowed to discover how to properly access it on their own. They were told, directed, expected, demanded, and maybe even forced to wield those enegies in ways that were only beneficial other people and not for themselves.
So to all you men out there feeling victimized by women, or your notions about feminism, I suggest taking all that anger and resentment, all that shadow Warrior energy that makes you want to lash out at women, or at men who stand up for women, and transmute it into fevered action for a cause that you’re most passionate about, that most serves your greatest good, that is best guided by your King.
I appreciate the sentiment but this really feels like an attempt at trying to say that no woman or feminist is responsible for the feelings men have or the lot in life they face. I agree its important to focus one’s anger properly but there is a difference between proper focus and trying to fool someone into thinking the source is something else. Because on the real, “feeling victimized by women, or your notions about feminism”?
TB:
If I were a man this shit would seriously piss me off. As it is, I’m not, so it just confuses my little lady brains. Tee hee!
It does. But I have my own solution. I’m going to take Frederick’s suggestion about proper focus while at the same time bearig in mind where that anger comes from and not pretend that women and feminists are totally innocent for the mess this world is today.
“I’m going to take Frederick’s suggestion about proper focus while at the same time bearig in mind where that anger comes from and not pretend that women and feminists are totally innocent for the mess this world is today.”
Of course women and feminists are totally innocent! There’s no way vapid, brainless, frail little women could ever make any change happen ever.
Tee hee!
Frederick, I’m in the Chicago MKP community (staffing this weekend, too!) I’m sorry I never met you while you were here. My coach, Jean-Pierre LeBlanc, has some great theories around the observations you have made, leaning somewhat on Deida, but also his own stuff. Reach out to me if interested and we can discuss.
Dave Kaiser