Yes, it’s scary to approach someone, but it’s even scarier being approached. Dr. Nerdlove gives five examples of when to steer clear of making advances.
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Anyone who reads my site for long enough knows I’m a big proponent of the cold approach. Learning how to approach women, strike up a conversation and charming them into being interested in going on a date with you is a difficult — but important — skill to master. But just as important as it is to be willing to approach women you don’t know, it’s important to know when you shouldn’t be approaching them. As nerve-wracking as it might be for you to approach women, it can be an even more tense situation for the women being approached. Almost every woman out there has a story about being harassed by guys who wanted to “just say hello” and who thought that their desire to introduce themselves overrode her right to be left alone. Who goes from being a stranger to a full-blown creeper in the span of a couple sentences because they won’t take a hint.
Of course, there will always be the wags who will say “clearly, the answer is to just never approach women ever” while others will demand to know how they’re supposed to meet women if they don’t approach them. They will complain that it’s unfair to miss out on missing someone awesome just because some creeper somewhere might have weirded a woman out. This is one of the reasons why social calibration is one of the most important parts of getting better at dating; recognizing the times when it is and isn’t appropriate to approach women is vital – not just to your dating success but to avoiding being creepy by accident. One of the keys to social calibration is understanding the cues and context that tell you when a woman is open to being approached and when she isn’t. Now an obvious caveat: people are people and everyone sets their boundaries where they see fit. There will always be exceptions to every rule and people who may be receptive to being approached under these circumstances. Many people – myself included – have experiences where they have successfully gotten a number or a date or what-have-you from a bartender, a waitress, someone they met on the bus or the train. HOWEVER. You can’t bank on people being one of those exceptions. So unless she is giving you veryexplicit indications that she’s interested in talking to you… give her a pass. It’s better to “miss out” on an opportunity than to end up being yet another warm body in the asshole conga-line of her day.
So let’s look at 5 times when you shouldn’t try to approach women.
When She’s Giving the Don’t Bother Me Sign
One of the keys to getting better at interacting with women is to understand the differences in how men and women are taught to communicate. Women are taught to be indirect when communicating their desires and interests – especially when it comes to interacting with men — and are more likely to rely on non-verbal communication. A woman who’s interested in being approached, for example, might signal the guy she’s attracted to with the classic “lock eyes, look away, look back” move. But just as women tend to signal their interest with what’re known as “approach invitations”, they’ll also signal that they really want to be left alone the same way.
For example: one of the most obvious non-verbal signs that a woman wants to be left alone is that she’ll refuse to make eye-contact. Locking eyes is one of the classic approach invitations, so she’ll go out of her way to not meet anyone’s eyes. Staring straight ahead, looking down, staring resolutely at her phone, giving the thousand yard stare or resolutely looking anywhere but at a person are all signs that she’s trying to avoid giving someone the idea that she wants to talk to anyone. Similarly, she may use obstacles — especially clothes or accessories like a hoodies or sunglasses — as a physical barriers to eye-contact.
Wearing headphones or earbuds are another universal “do not disturb” sign; in fact, many people will wear earbuds without actually listening to music specifically so people will leave them alone. It’s another way of putting a physical barrier between themselves and someone trying to get their attention.
Pro Tip: pulling out her earbuds1 , waving your hand in her face or otherwise trying to force her attention is going to ensure she thinks you’re an asshole, no matter how much you really want to know what she’s listening to.
Other “do not disturb” signs include when she’s reading, writing or working on her laptop. If she’s in a public place — a cafe, a Starbucks, what-have-you — and she’s reading or on her laptop, then the odds are that she’s there because she really needed to get out of the apartment for a while. This means she’s there to work or study, not to flirt. And no, it doesn’t matter if you notice she’s updating her Facebook page instead of working on her thesis; if she was interested in talking to somebody, she wouldn’t be focusing on a computer screen. If you really want to ask her for her opinion on the Jim Butcher book she’s reading, the you can wait until she’s put the book down, rather than plopping yourself in in the seat next to her and demanding that she pay attention to you.
On Public Transportation
One of the worst possible places to approach women is on just about any form of public transit. You’re already dealing with people who are frustrated, stressed, hungover or generally wishing they were anywhere else. All anyone on the Muni, the eL, the Yamanote line, the Underground, or any other form of mass transit wants to do is get through their commute with as minimal irritation as possible. The last thing they want to do is actually interact with the teeming masses of humanity around them.
This goes double for women. In fact, for many women, mass transit is less of a convenient and economical way of getting from place to place and more of a gauntlet of horror, frustration and harassment that they must run on a daily basis… and that’s on a good day. Almost every woman who’s ever had to take the bus or the subway or the train has had an experience of being harassed — ranging from guys who see nothing wrong with demanding a response from women who clearly want to be left alone to the incredibly dangerous. This is the background radiation of her daily commute – never knowing if the guy who sits next to her or around her is going to just be annoying or if he’s going to jerk off in front of her.
And to make it worse: she’s effectively trapped with the guys who are harassing her. Her options are to get off before her stop or hope that he gives up and goes away. Getting off early is no guarantee that she’s going to get away from the guy – there’s really nothing stopping him from deciding “no, this is my stop too” — and adds other risks like being late to work and losing her job. And if he’s someone who regularly takes the same line she does… well, now she can expect to see him every goddamn day.
Trying to approach women on mass transit — even that cutie you see every day on your morning commute — means that you’re trying to approach somebody who is already suffering from profound creeper fatigue. Yeah, you may not be a creeper, but she has no way of knowing this. She just wants to get through the day without dealing with another guy who thinks that a woman taking mass transit has signed up for the Transit Authority Speed Dating Service2. Public transportation is not a safe space for women and she willalready have her guard up when you try to say hello. If she wants to talk to you, she’ll let you know. Let her make the first move; the last thing you want to do is cause the woman of your dreams to associate you with other mass transit creepers.
Also: remember what I said about the “do not disturb” signs? This goes double for when they’re on the bus, the subway or the train. A woman reading or listening to her headphones is making a determined effort to shut the world out until it’s time for her to get off at her stop.
At Work
Approaching women while they’re at work is a rigged game, especially if they’re working in the service industry or any job where a woman has to be “nice” for a living. Don’t get me wrong; to some guys, the cute barista is more appealing than any other woman on Earth… but trying when it comes to the age-old question of “Does she really like me?” the answer is usually “just as a customer.”
Take anyone who works for tips — waitresses — especially ones at restaurants like Hooters or Twin Peaks3, bartenders, shot girls, go-go dancers etc. Their job description is almostliterally “Flirting For Dollars”. This doesn’t mean that these women are cockteases or are being dishonest, but a certain level of flirtiness often means a heavier tip from male customers. It’s professional flirting without intent. But even those who aren’t overtly flirty have a vested interest in getting you to like them — it’s part of what helps bring customers back. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who mistake professional niceness for genuine interest and assume that the waitress or the bartender is really into them. Those cute designs in your latte foam are more about getting you to be a regular than sending you secret affogato-encoded love notes.
But beyond not mistaking niceness for interest, there’s one major complicating factor: they are at work. There’re not there to get dates or make new friends, they’re there to do their job. They literally don’t have time for prolonged flirt sessions and, frankly, most of them would like to get through their workday with minimal hassle.
“But I could be the customer who makes her day better by flirting with her!” I hear you cry. You know who else thinks this?
Almost every other guy who she meets.
Seriously; women in the service industry deal with guys who think that they are the Casanova she’s been dreaming of all these years. And let me tell you: the barista you have a crush on has been dealing with it all goddamn day. When you’re the latest in a long line of people who want to chat her up over her love of Baudelaire and her Pinterest-inspired tattoos, even the most charming motherfucker is going to have to push through some serious creep fatigue.
Once again: it is known to happen. But the best way to flirt with someone in the service industry is to be a regular and cultivate a relationship over time. If you’re a regular, you’ll have more opportunities to get to know one another over time. But even so: it’s one more arena where it’s better to let her take the initiative.
At Night (Except In Social Spaces)
General rule of thumb: don’t approach women at night.
The social contract changes when the sun goes down. What is tolerable — if not expected — during the day is potentially threatening at night. Asking a woman for the time or directions or bumming a light during the day is completely normal. The exact same behaviors at night seem like the prelude to a mugging. You may have nothing but the most noble of intentions, but trying to approach women walking along the streets at night is most likely going to make them nope right the fuck out of there on the express train to FuckThisShitville.
Even relatively busy or well-lit thoroughfares are no-go’s when the sun’s gone down. Yeah, the Champs-Élysées may be incredibly gorgeous at night when the lights are lit, but it’s still not the time to try to approach strangers.
The obvious exception are in social spaces — that is, places where socialization is not only expected but encouraged. Street fairs, block parties, outdoor events… these are times when yes, you can reasonably approach women and not come off as “Hi, my name is Chad and I’ll be your mugger this evening.” Worth noting: the later it gets in the evening, the sketchier you appear trying to meet people at night. Down on 6th St. in Austin, the streets are crowded well past 1 AM… but once the bars close, if you’re approaching women you seem less like the cool guy and more like the hyena at the watering hole looking for the gazelle who got left behind by her drunk-ass friends.
You wouldn’t think this would need to be said… but just as every woman’s dealt with harassment on mass transit, they’ve also known the guy hanging around the outside of the bar or the bodega or the bus stop who wanted to know what her name was or to tell her to smile. Don’t do it.
Never Approach Women On Planes
The last time I flew Virgin America, we were treated to a special message from Richard Branson touting the latest service available to VA passengers – the ability to order a drink for a stranger on the plane. It is, we are assured, a great way to get to know somebody. And who knows… maybe you might end up making some special plans before you get to the baggage claim. This is the sort of bad idea that can only be responded to in gif format…
Airplanes are quite possibly the single worst place you can try to approach women – even with billionaire enabled cocktail service. Everything that makes approaching a woman on mass transit a bad idea is amplified by a factor of EVERYTHING when you’re on a plane. On the subway, she has the option of moving to another car. On the bus, she can getting off at an earlier and try to catch a taxi instead.
On a plane, however, the person is stuck with you for the next two to four hours — or more — with absolutely no way of getting away… and this can be frustrating at best and outright skin-crawlingly awful at worst.
Look at it this way: you’re already stuck in a metal tube flying through the sky in defiance of the laws of God and man. All you want to do is get through the flight with as minimal irritation as possible and some dude is trying to chat you up, edging themselves into your personal space, peppering you with inane questions and getting their halitosis all over you. How receptive are you going to be to being hit on by your neighbor for the next several hours?
But then it gets worse. First comes the probing: where are you staying, how long will you be there? The revelation that he’s single or that he has an arrangement. The barely-concealed sexual inuendo. The “just kidding, but not really” jokes. The hand on the knee…
To make matters worse? Not only are you stuck with them for the flight but if you’re both headed to your final destination, they’re with you all the way to baggage claim.
Now imagine this happens to you regularly when you fly.
Don’t hit on women on planes. Ever.
TL;DR — Show Some Consideration and Respect
Look, I’ll be the first to advocate approaching women you don’t know, expressing interest, flirting with them, trying to get a number, the whole nine yards. I know that sometimes you’ll see the (latest) woman of your dreams and you’ll feel that pressure that says “if you don’t talk to her nownownow you’ll miss your opportunity and never see her again”. I totally get that. But as much as you’re looking to make the most of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you’re still going to blow it when you’re rolling up on her at a time when she is not open to meeting somebody. There are times when all a woman wants is to not have to deal with anyone, whether it’s you or Ryan Gosling and Tom Hiddleston at the same time. Being respectful of her space and showing her courtesy is much more likely to make a positive impression on her than being one more headache in her daily commute.
There’s a time and place for everything. And these are not the time, nor the place.
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This article originally appeared on Dr. NerdLove
Photo credit: Flickr/Cristiano Betta
I have 5 better suggestions on when not to approach women:
– when it’s daytime
– when it’s nighttime
– in months with greater than 27 days
– on days with an “a” in them
– at all
It’s just better that way. #MGTOW
It would be an interesting list to see when / where you can approach women because this just takes out eighty percent of the day.
Is it white-knighting if you would do or have done the same thing for guys?
I white knighted a woman for a six week field project. She figured if people thought we were an item, the other guys wouldn’t pester her. And i didn’ t pester her. Found that out about ten years later. No problem.
Like I said, it depends on your motivation. If you are doing it just to get a date or into bed with a woman it makes you phony and insincere. What I don’t understand is women who claim to be Feminists, yet insist that White Knights are “sticking up” for them. Why do they need a man to do that for them?
The only one I agree with is the at night one. As long as a man is respectful in his approach, there is no reason why he couldn’t approach in these public settings. Infact, I wish more men would choose to interact with women respectfully in real life rather then looking at endless pictures of women on dating sites or porn.
Dr Nerdlove and Dr Phil have the same thing in common: they both assume that men are always the problem and need to be “fixed” like defective appliances. One does it for ratings, the other one is a disguised PUA doing it for female approval.
He’s not saying men need to be “fixed.” I don’t know where you get that…the point is that apparently, some men don’t realize that women face harassment and the very real threat of RAPE on a daily basis, so yes, our guards are up more than clueless men (as decent as they may be) don’t like. Obviously, there can be creepy stalkers and violently jealous people of both sexes. It’s awful either way. But it happens to women A LOT, so much so that you’d be hard-pressed to find a woman who doesn’t make at least one (usually several) plans… Read more »
I was not upset about women being guarded, I just have no patience for White Knights and “Uncle Tims” who feel it is their mission to protect women from those OTHER men who are not like them.
Well, well. I believe that is just human and moral to try and help people who are facing threat, female or male, the best way we can. It seems like you are one of these infamous neo-machismo men I see everywhere on the internet (luckily we do not have enough of your type in my Country) that believes men should just never help women, no matter what. Maybe sexism, sadism or both. And I just don’t know why. I am really sorry for any Country that gets infested with this type of upside-down ideology of not helping people (or mainly… Read more »
Just out of curiosity, which country is that? for the record, I am a Libertarian who believes that force should not be used against anyone except in direct self defense of yourself or someone you choose to defend. This means against actual, physical threats. As for defending people online, that is a different story. You may not agree with my ideas which is fine, but I am under no obligation to rescue someone from another person’s opinion. I have said that men do not owe women any kind of unpaid labor or favors. Just as men should not expect sex… Read more »
Yes men should not expect sex from women; women should not expect sex from men. We are not entitled to sex. Now when it comes to help… that is a given, in my head and for most people I know, that we will try our best to be useful. Bet for many types like you it is not. And that is what makes me sad. Weird that you mention men expecting sex, and women expecting help… I still believe we should see helping people as a highly moral conduct we should indulge in as often as we can, not as… Read more »
The problem with this article, and others like it, is that it is mostly just preaching to the choir: It will reinforce the reluctance of a lot of men to not approach women in ANY situation, while doing nothing to discourage the men who make a practice of approaching women in the wrong ways at the wrong times.
I agree with you AnonymousDog.
Wes, I think it’s sad that when a man sticks up for a woman it gets degraded into some strange name calling of “White Knights”.
I have no clue what “Uncle Tims” are. But it makes me sad that when a man helps a woman, it’s mocked.
Read Men On Strike by Helen Smith, where she devotes a whole chapter to these types. White Knights pretend to support women just to get approval, while Uncle Tims undermine other men. A prime example is Dr Phil who told a man that he should pay support for a child that was not even his. Neither one is sincere.
Actually Wes, I think men use the term “white knight” to shame other men who stick up for women.
While I am sure there are men who only ‘pretend’ to support women for approval, I’ve also seen a lot of men use “white knight” name calling to shame women who show support of women.
I’ll check that book out if you check out Female Chavnist Pig by Ariel Levy or The Beauty Myth Naomi Wolf.
@ Erin I’ve used the term “white knight” before. I’ve never used it as shaming, but as an identifier, which contain specific qualities. There are some terms that are identifiers and also used for shaming, but those are usually where the term itself comes with some additional / negative connotation or it’s a distortion or an extreme of what the person actually is. When you think of “knights”, you think of chivalry. When you think of “white”, you think “good guy”. We have many “white knights” on this site who advocate for a return to “chivalry”. How is it shaming… Read more »
@Erin,
” I think it’s sad that when a man sticks up for a woman it gets degraded into some strange name calling of “White Knights”. ”
The author of the article is not sticking up for women. He is just putting himself and other men down. That’s a bit different.
And here’s the problem with that. You’re asking for protection. I’m sure you won’t like that description. So here’s a solution. We men will call it protection. You women can call it standing up for women.
Men supporting women, women supporting men, women supporting women, men supporting men. That is not exactly protection, at least not all the time. We stand up for each other (our rights and dignity), protect when needed and always support. That is fine with me, just like I have always done.
“Supporting” someone by grouping people together and denigrating them isn’t support, just alienation.
I agree.
Women don’t face the threat of rape on a daily basis unless they’re making unusually bad decisions. I wish this sort of dis-empowering fear-mongering would just go away. Stranger rape represents a minority of the cases. It’s definitely true that you can’t always predict where or when it’s going to happen, but as a former security officer, I have to say that if you’re paying attention one can make choices to reduce the risk. Personally as a man, I don’t appreciate the fear-mongering as it means that I have to worry about my personal safety when my path happens to… Read more »
Unusual bad decision… rape can happen anytime, anywhere. Stranger rape does not happen that often because women mostly do not go out alone at night (or dangerous places) anymore and because women learn how to take precautions. Yes, that is surprising, but you see, women pay attention and make choices to reduce the risk, no need to ask or try to teach us about this. Women learn that since forever. Knowing about this can trigger fear, and sexual violence can trigger MUCH fear. But that is just how it works and as women we can tell you men that what… Read more »
In the city where I live, I see women out walking and jogging alone all the time. On a one mile bike ride home, I might see four or five on any given night. And they’re often absorbed in their cell phones or music. You can probably extrapolate that to dozens or more around the city, because there’s nothing special about my route. Yet, stranger-assaults are very rare, stranger-rape even more rare, and almost always after bar time. Muggings are far more common. In fact, the city has about 70 reported tapes of all kinds per year, virtually all by… Read more »
Sexual harassment occurs more daily than being mugged or getting hit by a car. Human beings already have at least a small fear of walking around at night (because it’s that much harder to see) and women have it slightly worse because we are just not as physically strong as a guy. Sometimes it’s not just the fear of being raped, it’s the street harassment, being followed by a guy who can’t take no for an answer, or even just the threat of physical violence in general because something may be mentally wrong with them. I say all of these… Read more »
Because being hit by a car (or being mugged) usually does not leave the same horrible, torturing emotional and psychological scars sexual violence does? Because the car itself is not the problem, but the drunk who is driving? Because you have a wider sense of control when knowing where cars are at while you never know where the rapist is at, so you feel even more alert? For real, use your brain. Men should stop FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL to try to dismiss the fear many/most females feel only because you do not feel the same. To try to… Read more »
Yeah, I’m going to disagree. I’ve met and spoken with hundreds of women on trains and buses, walking down the street, in coffee shops, etc and dated several of them later. It has more to do with how you approach than where you approached. If you sit down right next to her, or get up and jump over next to her, yeah you’re an asshat. Start a conversation respectfully from a distance and then based on how she responds both with words and body language either continue the conversation or wish her a great day and find something else to… Read more »
In fact, if I hadn’t spoken up on the train platform a few years back at 11 o’clock at night, I wouldn’t be married to my wife.
You are Ted Mosby and I claim my 5$ 🙂
Ugg…Ted Mosby and his misanderist band of female and male friends. Where every woman was called stupid or a bimbo and even the two main female leads seemed to have an odd disdain for anything female.
So, this should be called instead the End of Chivalrous Ways that Men and Women Meet.
For every Corny Movie, TV show or actual recollection of how “Love Birds” met said In The Past (like The Notebook), THIS article has killed the Disney-Fairy Tale Allure of them all. Fine by Me
Even in a bus….like the Greyhound bus….never approach a woman who is alone unless she wants to talk to you. I don’t want to be approach and I will only talk to a man if I’m almost to my destination.
You forgot to mention funerals.
Should you? Ever?
i am female, i am a barista, student, etc. i get advances in the work place and it is upsetting, but not if they are kind, thoughtful and sincere..it is the men that stare me down with their eyes and make google eyes and me, and flirt with me in inappropriate manners that really just piss me off to the point where I will give them dirty looks and they will still make googly eyes at me. I just went on a date and the guy told me that his coworker uses binoculars to watch me walk my dog down… Read more »
I mostly agree here except for a couple points. One is that it’s not just men that behave that way, I must be very attractive because I get that from women all the time. Not so much with the binoculars, that’s unbelievably creepy. The other thing is that there are numerous reasons why people stare. Just because a person’s eyes are pointed somewhere doesn’t mean that they’re staring. I’ve got sensory integration problems and when I’m listening very hard or thinking, I’ve got no idea where I’m looking at my eye’s going to go to whatever the most high contrast… Read more »
Articles like this one cheapen the GMP website. Maybe I am getting too old?
Nope, nope, and, nope. All wrong. This is only accurate through the eyes of a disguised pick-up artist. Some of the points are well-intended, but there’s always this gross notion that the author is ultimately looking for optimum gain, but his “advise” is disguised as caring about women. I can’t count the times where I saw an attractive man that I so wished I had guts to show my interest, but my cowardice made me avoid eye contact at all cost, probably making it seem like I wasn’t interested at all, when I would have died at the opportunity to… Read more »
This. So this. Apparently this means never being approached by any guy ever. Very “humble-scending.” Ugh.
Sooooooooo… Us guys should approach women who look and act as if they’re trying to give us the brush-off because they might just be nervous?
I think I see a lot of that. Extreme mixed messages do I prioritize the fact that she’s staring at me and seems to be trying to get my attention over the fact that we’re on a bus and she has ear buds in? Or should I just try and ignore her? I tend to just ignore her as it’s not really worth it. I’d love for things like this to be as clear cut as the author suggests. However, I think the only absolute here is that it’s probably a bad idea to approach a woman in a situation… Read more »
You receive lots of sexual harassment from women and most men I know have never even gotten hit on by a woman. That world is crazy. I wonder what is going on and going WRONG here… :/
Body language is really hard to read sometimes, I don’t care what anyone says. Strike up conversations if you feel like it. Be nice, don’t threaten people, go away if they ask. Other than that talk to anyone you like till they’re more explicit.
I agree. Most human beings are not nearly as fluent in body language as they think. either in ‘speaking’ or ‘listening’ in body language.
I’m totally agree with you. I also can’t really read body language, whether the person is man or women.”Be nice, don’t threaten people, go away if they ask” Great tips on approaching people.
Unfortunately the point of the article is to how YOU feel about approaching baristas, servers, etc. The point of the article is how women feel when you do so. As a former server and cocktail waitress of 4 years, it only got worse when I had known the guy as a regular. Then you felt even more pressure and anguish when you had to make it clear you were being friendly the whole time because it’s your job. So your opinions about how you feel about approaching them are irrelevant. It’s about how SHE feels – not how you think… Read more »
This reminds me of one time recently when a friend and I went to P.F. Chang’s for lunch. We sat at the bar. There was a man to the left of me in his 60s. Big guy, big personality, clearly a regular because he knew all the servers. He kept flirting with the young cute 25-28 year old bartender. Saying rather inappropiate things to her and thinking he was really funny or sauve..or whatever. He was very confident in his demeaner and interaction. She was very nice back to him, smiled, either laughed or ignored his comments to hurry and… Read more »
I think people make a lot of assumptions about others. The first assumption is that men don’t understand what a woman in that situation goes through. After about a year, my stalker (a female client who has a fixation on me) has reopened her account with our company and just contacted me (not tech support) two weeks or so ago to help her access her accounts. She seems to have identified me as a “nice guy” who she feels comfortable discussing the myriad issues she’s having in hr life not the least of which is her husband. She brought me… Read more »
Sorry for the typos. My co-worker has a bad back from his carpenter days. I’m pretty sure I hit all the keys. Probably should think about changing the keyboard.
Actually, I once turned down a request by a woman to push her car (Mercedes! with a small, vicious dog trying to attack me through the window) out of deep mud at a suburban market garden, and suggested she call AAA. She was stunned, and said it was just her luck not to run into a ‘real man.” Which only confirmed my view to keep moving.
Entitlement goes both ways. You do not “owe” women unpaid labor. Ever.
I personally try to live by my own principal of helping others when I am emotionally, physically and mentally able to. I have certain strengths over others but at various points in my life, I’ve done what I am capable of to help men, women and children alike. I have no special grudge against trying to offer help and support anyone. It’s my firm belief that life is about helping other people in big situations or small.
@ Erin
I’m not sure anyone disagrees with you. What I’m hearing is treat others as you would like to be treated. If you don’t feel that you owe anyone your time, why do you feel that they owe you theirs?
No, no one disagrees with me..except when it comes to a woman asking for help.
I’ve had to ask people for help, I’ve had to ask men for help. Guess that makes me the bad guy.
People do not ask more men to help in hard physical work because they feel they are entitled to men’s labour. Not the majority of them. They ask because they in fact need help and just happen to know men are usually stronger, that is all. Of course, if they complain and offend only because the person declined helping (who knows why) they are wrong. But we still need more kindness. I cannot believe these men (mostly American man over here, I guess) who act like they believe people are only seeing them as slaves only for asking for help,… Read more »
People do not ask more men to help in hard physical work because they feel they are entitled to men’s labour. Not the majority of them. They ask because they in fact need help and just happen to know men are usually stronger, that is all. Of course, if they complain and offend only because the person declined helping (who knows why) they are wrong. But we still need more kindness. I cannot believe these men (mostly American man over here I guess) who act like they believe people are only seeing them as slaves only for asking for help,… Read more »
The ‘cold approach’ is not an important skill to master unless you want to do it. It is trvial if you don’t want to hang out with strangers.
I think if you see someone regularly somewhere, same coffee break time etc, of course that makes a difference in approachability For me public transportation is such a minefield some days, I’m in hyper ignore everyone mode, it would take me a while to even notice other regulars….
I had a friend (in the mental health field, no less!) who crushed on the Julie Delpy look-a-like waitress at a restaurant….they were chatting…he thought she was interesting and interested in what he was saying…at the end, he asked for her number…she gave him a fake number…despite his friends begging him not to do so, he went back to the restaurant bent on finding her and giving a note to one of her co-workers to pass onto her…he never saw her again….
Pretty dense, ay?
I’m still in the never approach camp. We need to turn sexual harassment around with some serious cultural change. If you still allow for some of these approaches you’re just inviting more of the same problem. Is the world going to end if you can’t approach women 90% of the time?
@ PursuitAce One of the colleges I used to go to was located in a very dangerous part of town. The campus was OK, but it was dangerous to go off campus at night. It was about 11:00 PM. I was working on a project writing code in assembler for our VAX. A police officer I knew who worked in the district was getting off in half an hour and was going to give me a ride home. There were maybe 6 of us in the lab and the female student asks me if I could walk her to her… Read more »
No, it won’t end, and you don’t have to jump through hoops like a trained seal for attention either. As for approaching waitresses, bartenders, or any other service industry types just remember that you are nothing more than a potential tip to them.
For the most part I agree where I disagree is when you constantly come into contact with the person whether it’s on public transportation or the barista at the bar. After you become a regular and gotten to know them a little, I see no problem with approaching them respectfully as long as you accept their answer and are OK with just being friends. The big flaw in your plan of letting them make the first move if they’re interested is that many times women who are interested won’t make the first move. They just send approach signals. If you… Read more »
Also, never approach white women while you are non-white. Not to ask time, the way or for any other reason. That is a real rule that I learnt the hard way through experience.
Being a white woman, I really have no issue with people walking up to me, no matter if they are “non-white”, and asking me directions or the time. The only exceptions to this rule, and it goes for any person of any race, is because it’s night time and I’m already thoroughly creeped out by walking around at night by myself. I’d still probably respond, politely as well, but I might not be willing to chat it up with you.
Best comment ever.