Jamie Reidy has just three words for you to remember on a first date: Be. The. Man.
You meet her. You like her. She doesn’t vomit at the sight of you, so you ask her out. (Or, like Ryan Gosling in Crazy, Stupid Love, you tell her she’s going out with you.) She agrees to the date.
(I’m not going to get into the whole “When do you call her?” thing. I call the next day. Actually, I text the next day to find out when would be a convenient time for me to call that night or the next night. Thoughtful? Check. Considerate? Check. Sure, Vince Vaughn had his “industry standard.” But keep in mind that Swingers could’ve issued a commemorative fifteenth-anniversary Blue Ray in 3-D last year; do you really want to follow the advice of a movie that came out before the ubiquity of Smartphones?)
You call her to chit chat and confirm the night and time. She confirms. Then you inquire as to food allergies or food loathing. Relieved – and impressed – that you asked, she giggles and admits to a dislike of chicken. And shrimp. Either of these would be a hold-up-in-court breakup excuse, but she’s pretty hot, so you let them go. No pressure, but, short of proposing to her, your next move is the most crucial one you will ever make in this relationship:
Tell her where you are taking her.
Let me repeat that: you tell her where you are taking her.
She does not get a vote. More importantly, she does not want a vote. Not tonight, anyway.
She wants you to be The Man. Look confident by making a decision and showing some initiative. She wants to know that you can take control. She won’t want you to run things all the time, obviously, but she does want to know you’ve got it in you.
Basically, she wants to know that sometime in the future you are going to bend her over the couch. And she will love it. Not tonight, probably, but in the sooner-than-later.
If you ask her where she’d like to go, you look insecure and indecisive. That guy is not getting a goodnight kiss, let alone leaving hand prints on her right ass cheek someday.
Now, don’t go insisting on picking her up at her place. She might not need you knowing where she lives already. In this case, soliciting her input is smart. “Would you like me to get you on the way or do you want to just meet there?”
This last tip should go without saying, but I will say it just so we’re all clear: you are paying. Dinner or drinks or coffee or whatever, it does not matter. You. Are. Paying.
What will happen if you go Dutch on a first date? See earlier kiss/handprint-on-ass comment.
It doesn’t matter if she earns more money than you do, or if it’s Anno Domini two-thousand-and-fucking-twelve. Here are two non-negotiable rules in life: the ground can’t cause a fumble and the girl can’t buy on the first date. There will be plenty of opportunities for her to pick the restaurant (she will) and pick up the tab (we hope she will).
But for Date One, show her there’s a new sheriff in town and his name is…you.
—Photo Elmo H. Love/Flickr
About Jamie Reidy
Jamie, this was fabulous. Thank you. IF I were still out there (NOT, married to a like-minded man for 26 years), this is what I’d want, including the over-the-couch thing…in due time (I’m not easy…;)) Despite the grumblings and the posturing, I believe that the majority of Earth’s women will agree with you here and would appreciate what you have to offer. Best to you, my friend.
The rest of the Thursdays in 2012 will have a tough time beating the third one! This has been a blast.
When a woman has asked me out – and it has happened before, despite my stooped posture, protruding jaw and lack of opposable thumbs – I have always OFFERED to pay when the bill arrived. This has universally been met with, “No. I asked you out, so I am paying.” At that point, I lean forward with a big, sincere smile and say, “THANK YOU!” And then I tell the waiter I’ve changed my mind and, yes, I will have a dessert. (I slay me.)
Great last line.
While I think that there’s almost nothing worse than a person that can’t be assertive an make a decision once in a while on behalf of themselves and their partner, I don’t think all women would be attracted to this “Be The Man” stance. In my experience the men I have dated that call all the shots on the first date, without asking for my opinion whatsoever, turn out to be interested in a completely unequal partnership. I’m not saying that Jamie is interested in cultivating unequal partnerships, but the men I have dated that adopt this “Be The Man” dating style have all turned out to be pretty misogynistic, with little thought to MY opinion and feelings. To be completely honest, I am really uncomfortable with this approach: “She does not get a vote. More importantly, she does not want a vote. Not tonight, anyway.” I think that’s the completely wrong message to be sending any boy, young man or man in any stage of the dating process. As a victim of date rape, I think that “she does not get a vote–she does not want a vote” rhetoric is the type of thinking that breeds the possibility for rape culture to thrive. At what point does she “get a vote”? I want an equal vote on the first date as much as I want an equal vote when it comes to the bedroom and creating boundaries of safety and trust.
Hear hear, FDB.
Not only would this person not get a second date from me, he’d end up spending the vast majority of THE FIRST DATE alone.
I want to spend time with people (female, male; platonic, potentially sexual) who are self-confident and self-assured, who have a clear sense of who they are, who have clear ideas of what they want and take ownership of their preferences and desires.
But in order for me to enjoy spending time with those people, they also have to want/expect/appreciate the same from me.
This kind of “taking over” reminds me far too much of the doctrines of the religious far-right and anti-feminist doctrines that preach that women belong back in the kitchen and the bedroom.
Hear hear to FDB and Morgaine.
A completely offensive social gambit, but worse, a very brutish view of human relationships in general, and of the beauty that is possible between a man and a woman in particular.
Jamie’s advice is good because it works. Are there a very small minority of women who will be turned off by a man being assertive and making the decisions? Yes. Will the vast majority of them expect a man to make the decisions for the first date and refuse to even consider him as a potential mate if he doesn’t take the lead? Yes. To be honest, I’ve been far too much like what the feminists here claim to want. Someone who is more concerned that she is enjoying herself and making sure that we’re doing what she wants. Instead of saying, “This is where we’re going,” I do the whole “oh, well, this place is good and so is this place if you don’t like that” etc and that doesn’t work. Now it is time to try the “being the decider” routine.
Hear hear.
It’s hardly misogynist to decide where to go the first time. Remember, it’s just the first time.
These feminist commenters have their heart in a good place, but they’re just out of touch. Perhaps it’s been too long since they were at the beginning stage of a relationship. In fact, his strategy is showing more consideration/attentiveness to the girl than most people do.
The point isn’t just deciding where to go.
It’s the whole idea that Being A Man is about dominating.
We live in a Dominator Paradigm. It’s all about power-over. Not just between the genders.
We need to shift to power-with, to partnership.
Assertiveness is beautiful in both men and women.
The whole slap-her-ass frame of mind her is really disturbing. I wonder if Jamie was stretching the point playfully.
“It’s the whole idea that Being A Man is about dominating. We live in a Dominator Paradigm. It’s all about power-over. Not just between the genders. We need to shift to power-with, to partnership.”
Yes but you miss one thing…its the WOMEN who want men to dominate them. This is what Collin is talking about. Women want a man who will lead them. Its a consistent message you get from most women. Its not up to men.
I went to Japan to visit my ex-girlfriend. I had no idea what I wanted to do and I thought that she would take care of me given that she lives in Japan. Big mistake. I realize now that when it comes to women I have the burden of doing all the planning and leading and that I can never be lazy about it.
This by the ways IS a female privilege.
I just love how feminists down articles like this one, and then make dating choices that perfectly align with the point of the article.
If any1 forgets Gloria Steinem dated Joe Namath. Feminists are top-rated practitioners of double-speak.
FDB, that’s quite a jump. You’re blowing it out of proportion. I understand where you’re coming from, but thankfully, your jump-to-rape stance is still a fringe minority opinion.
I think this is about who asks who out. If the guy asks the girl out, he should make the plans and pay. If the girl asks the guy out, she should make the plans and pay. That sounds fair (and equal) to me. It just so happens that still – the vast majority of times, probably over 99% – the guy asks the girl out. So the article applies.
Sorry you were raped, but most people aren’t rapists.
So can we give young men some credit?
The advice to choose where you both eat… especially since so many women like this… is not going to be read as “rape her”, but as a dating practical tip.
Also, let’s not forget that he also says that he gives her a lot of choice otherwise – driving together or meeting, he asks about preferences/allergies, etc. He’s clearly being a little over the top for humor and what he’s saying is very true, not for everyone, but for a lot of people.
If I ask a guy out, I’m not going to waffle and act like I don’t know what I want to do or where to go with the guy. If I call up a guy and say, “Hey, do you want to go to dinner?” I better be prepared and have some great ideas. It’s hot to have a plan. And I bet Jamie would feel the same way if the situation were reversed. If a girl asked him out and then waffled about in the discussion on where to go and what to do, that’s not hot when you’re the one taking initiative.
<sarcasm> How kind of him to give her some choices. </sarcasm>
Joanna, do you not see any middle ground between wishy-washy indecisiveness and “She does not get a vote”? Or do you think that’s just the humor part of it? I must confess I’m not familiar with Jamie’s writing, so perhaps that was simply hyperbole for emphasis?
Because I agree with what you wrote, that if you’re asking someone out, you need to have an idea or two of where “out” is. I also think, and I imagine you’d agree, that you should be prepared to pay for “out” since you proposed it. But I think she does get a vote, which she can exercise or not as she chooses. I think you should absolutely have a plan, but that plan should have room for revision should she object to parts of it.
Agreed.
I think much of it is hyperbole/humor. I think. His book was about selling (hard selling) Viagra, so a) he’s got sales lingo down and the attitude to go with it (which does work with some folks) and the book was turned into a rom/com I think. Reviews are that it’s a funny book.
I don’t really prefer this kind of writing, and really, under the hyperbole it’s, “have a plan, make it so, close the deal.” Or so it reads. I worked with a number of pharm reps at one time. Lots of them were pretty slick. I’m not much of a salesman type nor do I respond well to slick dudes in general, thus my particular reaction. Perhaps I just need a more subtle approach when being seduced.
Some would say it’s all sales, baby…..
Anyone, male or female, wanting to get thrown over a couch though, is ok by me. Just do a little safe sane and consensual action prior and let the fantasies fly!
Which is to say, the writing is good. He’s a good writer. I just don’t connect to the post.
Well, I just received “Love and Other Drugs” in the mail from Netflix today so there must be a god or something, right? And she’s got a peculiar sense of humor.
For what it’s worth, when I was in sales I broke the one-week sales record my first week on the job by knowing my products and being completely honest with my customers. I like to think the lack of pressure and sleeze left them completely befuddled and they had no choice but to give me their money.
Incidentally, my cousin is a big pharma rep; she’s a pretty blonde with curves in all the right places. And from what I hear, she is able to sell very well indeed. I’d like to think it’s her extensive knowledge of the drugs she’s pushing (she does have her Pharm.D.) , but there’s a reason she was offered the job straight out of school.
Will the real NickMostly please stand up? Off to stick pins in my eyes.
I prefer to lay here with this bottle of Patrón, thank you.
Push, stick, bobby, rolling, or bowling? Not sure which would hurt least, but if you feel so compelled please choose that one.
How kind of her (an equal) to let him do the asking and paying…. and then also demand a vote
Nickmostly writes:
Joanna, do you not see any middle ground between wishy-washy indecisiveness and “She does not get a vote”?
What the woman would be getting in the scenario is a free meal. I think it’s a HUGE leap of blind faith to say that a man who invites a woman out, and has a plan in place, and plans to pay is LIKELY to be misogynistic (or that there is anything inherently wrong in practice). That’s just horse crap.
If a woman invited me, had a plan, and paid the last thing on my mind would be that I was being DOMINATED (lol). Some people on these boards clearly have some issues they need to work on.
I men COME ON! Grow up, please!
Listen folks,
There are a TON of women in the world, all with different preferences. Just as there are tons of guys who all ask girls out differently.
Personally, I agree with Jamie which is why I would like a guy to be more authoritative on the first date. Do I think a guy like that is a misogynist? No! These things are not linked!
A girl who must be in control at all times might not like Jamie, and that’s fine. At least they’d both know that up front, as opposed to both pretending to be some way they aren’t and finding out later…
Be who you are, put your authentic you on the hook and the fish who like it will swim toward you, and if you’re lucky they will bite.
How’s that for a creepy metaphor? I hope Jamie gets this in an author notification and rolls his eyes at me.
Exactly!
When a woman asks me.. and also is gonna pay, I feel that not only should she pick (cuz that’s hot) but also because she DESERVES to pick as she put herself out there. Whining about how she should be more sensitive to where i wanna go seems “greedy” to me. Some of these women are probably on a budget.
OMG. So embarrassed. I totally owe everyone on this commentary a BIG apology.
I omitted something of vital importance: The Man must order the woman’s entree for her.
“The lady will have the linguini with white clam sauce.” – Mike Damone, Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Dammit, and I was about to remind you of that part…except, I like red sauce. Wait, YOU’RE in charge. Wait, I’m a highly educated, city-living twenty something with a good job…I’ll take the white. And the couch thing, too.
Thank you for lightening things up Jamie. Off to read more of you.
OK, well, if you’re going to bring Fast Times (and especially Mike Damone) into it, I guess I will have to accede to the humorous tone of your piece.
I just missed it the first time :-/
Back in the Sixties, before I met the woman who is now my wife, a friend remarked, “You ought to date more. Women like take-charge guys.”
At that time I was dating about as much as I could, given certain restrictions on time and so forth, combined with the idea that a date was a Big Deal, dinner, or a big party, or a concert.
I didn’t know I was a take-charge guy.
I didn’t know women liked take-charge guys–my friend was not the only one to say this in public, and both men and women have said it about a million times a year since, in one venue or another.
Once he told me, I was determined it was a stereotype with insulting overtones.
So I was a non-take-charge guy. The women involved looked confused. Apparently, if I didn’t have a plan, we didn’t have a plan and they didn’t want to do the planning.
(requisite recognition of the difference between assertive, aggressive, and butthead.)
I found out later that my take-chargeism was manifest in whatever of my life various women happened to see before I asked them out. I had a couple of responsible things I had to be doing right along. So I never did figure out, back then, whether being take-charge on a date was a good thing, a bad thing, or whether being passive was a bad thing or merely an unannounced change in expectations.
Had two friends since then who tried to dial it back and lost big time. Had to be their cologne, right?
Ughhh, I don’t want to be YOU. I’m ME!
Becoming friends first and getting to know someone is far more rewarding, enjoyable and egalitarian.
Agreed!
I find this post to be quite refreshing. While I agree that relationships should be based on equality and shared decisions, I find more often than not that guys who tell me “I’m happy with whatever you want” on a first date don’t pull their weight in a relationship. I don’t want to be forced into whatever he wants, but I also don’t want to have to do all the planning all of the time, either. It’s a joy to let someone else make the plans for once, and I very much appreciate having those decisions made by “The Man” on a first date. After that we can take turns planning untll we know each other well enough to make the plans together.
Be the man….right. Its not the advice that needs adjustment, its the juvinille, cocky, self worshiping tone in which its delivered. It sounds like it was written by the same chromosome deficient demographic that buys axe body spray becauss they think it will make up for their severe lack of originality.
Women are not all the same. We’re not all knock-offs of the same generic Woman and there is no one catch-all method to approaching relationships with women which will please all of us. Because we’re actually quite a diverse set of people. We don’t all appreciate being bossed about and being told that we are going out with someone else. Some of us like a degree of autonomy or discussion in the decision making process. Neither are we all in thrall with men who decide that ‘being the man’ in a relationship is synonymous with ‘make all the decisions on behalf of your partner’.
“Women are not all the same. We’re not all knock-offs of the same generic Woman and there is no one catch-all method to approaching relationships with women which will please all of us. Because we’re actually quite a diverse set of people.”
True. But this article isn’t about the fact that some women don’t like being lead. Its about the fact that MOST women, even the assertive ones prefer men who lead. BTW, bossing around is not the same as leading.
Margaret writes:
“We don’t all appreciate being bossed about and being told that we are going out with someone else.”
Where do you see that being mentioned? IN the scenario the woman is being invited to dinner and the man intends to pay, and has a pre-conceived place to have dinner at.
She is free to decline, or free to make the destination something on the table.
IN my experience the majority of women (but by no means all) most enjoy the company of a man who is willing to push for, barter, and achieve activities he enjoys as much as the woman pushes for things that she enjoys. Men who are lackluster and put the woman’s happiness BEFORE their own on THE FIRST DATE (in other words they have no idea you’re quality person to deserve such pedestalization) are human rugs and do not generate respect, interest, affection or lust.
Nobody respects somebody who lacks such simple confidence that they will be stepped on.
This is why the very many women who post complaining notwithstanding, the advice in this column is SOLID.
Nice post, and I think you’re mostly right.
Your advice might not be good for 100% of women, but for 90% and over, I think it works.
I’m just not comfortable with the “it does not matter. You. Are. Paying” part.
Because I hate roles and double standards (it would be the same if the roles were reversed).
It’s the “Because you’re a man you have to”.
Why do I have to? Just because I have a penis?!?
It’s not just about the money.
E.g., I usually lift heavy objects for ladies with pleasure (I like being chivalrous), but if a woman would say “You MUST lift the luggage because you’re a man”, I would reply “Have fun with your luggage, missy”.
Maybe I just hate when people tell me what I have to do.
63. You don’t have to follow this advice. Let us know how it works out.
It worked pretty well several times.
Actually, you have the best chances with people who share the same values as yours (and here I mean real equality… not “Equality as long as it’s good for me”).
After all, if someone is expecting me to follow any role… we couldn’t be a good match.
Agree totally.
Spam?
I think the fact that there are so many comments on this article expressing differing opinions reveals the fact that everyone has their own preferences for how a date should go. And it’s easier to know these preferences if you actually know the person. A date will go more smoothly if you don’t assume “This is person is X gender (or X age or X race or X anything really) so they must want this.” Because you know what happens when you assume – you get the wrong details.
Sure, the Rule of Large Numbers may reveal general trends in certain groups behavior, but it’s called the Rule of Large Numbers for a reason; it doesn’t work on a case-by-case basis. For people who are dating to achieve connection with a specific person, (i.e. not dating a Large Number of women to average out in terms of success), tailor the date towards the person you’re dating, not towards the average woman. To do this, though, you have to know your dates preferences and likes. It’s a lot more work to get to know a person well before reaping the benefits of romantic/sexual connection, but I think in the long run, it helps to alleviate the tension/guesswork.
Chris Rock on making women happy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnU7g4m0XmU
This is great advice* to the person who does the asking. But I don’t see why you had to make it about that person being a man. It’s probably true that most women would be delighted with this approach, provided he didn’t take it too far and, while not asking for opinions, accepted and respected those he did get. But honestly? I think most men would be delighted with this approach from a woman too. In fact, having acted in a similar** fashion on numerous occasions back in my youth, I can report that it always worked a treat where the guy had anything resembling an interest in me.
If you want to date someone, treat them like a human being, not a plaything, not a superior, not an inferior. This stuff if good advice because pretty much no one wants to date someone who appears to have no opinions. First of all, they make you do all the work and act surprised when you complain about having all the ‘choices’ (ie. decisions). Second of all, they generally do have opinions and they get grumpy if you don’t know them automatically. No, thank, you.
*apart from the implication that being ‘hot’ is a good reason to overlook things that would otherwise stop you dating someone, that’s bad advice.
**not quite the same, we don’t really have a dating culture here, but confidently making the first move.