Attitudes based on contempt for women? Not the most attractive to women. Go figure.
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Hey there. Yeah you. Young guy. Actually, you and your friend. You, with your MMA Tapout shirt, and your homeboy, who’s still rocking a “YOLO” shirt. I’m a 40 year old who keeps up with pop culture because I’m a writer/media professional. I’ve been following youth culture lately, specifically the “Bro (MMA, over tanned, over muscled)” culture, and (current) hip-hop culture. I like the energy you and your friend have. You guys are fast, loud, bright. All of the things any culture based around youth should be. Good shit.
However. I’ve noticed something recently. Both of you guy’s cultures’ has an…interesting way of regarding and dealing with women. Really interesting. I understand the conquest/mack persona that younger guys have when dealing with younger women. You guys are way more interested in belt notches with girls, more so than having a relationship with them. And that’s fine. I was once young, so I get the “young, wild and free” narrative. Plus, younger women are super hot these days. I can understand you fellas wanting to play the field for as long as you can.
But, what puzzles me is this. In both Bro and hip-hop culture, there seems to be a…contempt for women. It almost seems like girls are seen as appliances by guys of your generation. To be up kept, updated, polished, cleaned, used, and then thrown away. And, from the Facebook posts I read from younger female friends of mine, the pick-up lines and the “game” from many in your age group are really crude, at best.
Fellas. I understand you lust for the ladies. You go wild for the women.
But, do you LIKE the women?
Seriously? When was the last time either of you actually looked at and a woman and got lost in her eyes, and complement her on them? When was the last time you noticed and were knocked out by her smoky voice, her hot new haircut, or her new perfume? How long has it been since you told a lady friend you loved her new sexy tattoo, or you loved her knockout curves, in a RESPECTFUL way?
One more time fellas. Do you LIKE women?
Have either of you recently had a conversation with a woman about…anything? Other than sex? Or hook-ups? Or threesomes? You guys might be surprised by what a woman would say if you struck up a convo about politics, jobs, or even sports. What’s really wild is that a girl may be even be able to give you great advice about something you need help with. Listening to a woman could be beneficial to you on several levels. It could lead you to connect with her mentally, and emotionally. That same woman could turn out to be your co-worker. Your colleague. Your boss. Your best friend. Your…wife.
Wait. I didn’t mean to scare you two with that last one. Don’t get up from the table just yet.
I can see that you two are pissed at me. An old Gen-X’er who got his dating tips from Babyface. Who’s Babyface? He’s one of the best R&B singer/songwriters of his generation, who sang and wrote…ahh, never mind. R&B barely exists these days anyway. I’m just a geezer who’s telling you that one of these days, the same “girls” you may mack now will be women soon. And I’m not so sure sending them a naughty selfie to their phone will work once these women-to-be graduate college and buy homes. Take the time to really notice the beauty in women. LISTEN to them when they talk. Complement them on their beauty, and anything else about them that’s cool and sexy, and good in their lives. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with hot women. Try respecting their sexuality WHILE pursuing sex with them.
You two can go now. But, “Tapout” man, please cut down on the Red Bulls and protein shakes. And your friend has to take off that damn “YOLO” shirt. Worst. Trend. Ever.
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Photo—JeepersMedia/Flickr
I’m a stickler for the correct use of the English language, so while I agree that men can and should COMPLEMENT women, I think the word you really meant to use was COMPLIMENT! Thanks.
I used to always tell my ex how much i loved her eyes, her legs, her hips, there wasn’t much I didn’t love about her and tell her, for three years I did this, picked her up, dropped her off to work e.t.c payed for everything. later on in life I was to find out she cheated on me pretty much constantly with a lot of different men. to be honest I would choose to behave more like the guys in your article any day rather be that fool again, unfortunately its just not in my make up
Men and women in mixed martial arts are some of the most patient and humble people I know. They’re good friends, good listeners, and intensely respectful of their fellow humans, compared to my friends in other fields. I think it’s related to the intensity with which they need to engage themselves physically and emotionally with their peers; with continually facing the challenge of admitting their opponent has outmatched them; of coming back even when it hurts pride and body. Fans of the sport that I interact with are more mixed, just like any really broad group of people. This author… Read more »
Leaving aside the “should” question about what these young men ought to do with their lives, I’m still left with a practical question, about the evidence on the ground: Is their current approach to meeting women and finding sexual partners working for them, or not working for them? Not all young, disrespectful wannabe studs are disappointed in their strategies. Some of them no doubt are, some are probably not. There is a wide diversity of women out there. I can’t assume that they are turning off every single woman by their attitude. Lord knows there are lots of gullible people… Read more »
Thank you for this piece. I wish more men did try to engage with women on more levels than just sex. I sometimes do feel like men don’t much like women unless it’s sex related. I don’t think it’s fair to ask women to wait until he’s 40 before he starts seeing women as people either.
Once in a while, so I’ve heard anyway, a woman in a particular situation is only interested in sex with a particular man. I’m not so sure these self-proclaimed studs are the users in every case. I bet in some cases they’re the boy toys for women who don’t seem them as much more valuable than sex objects. In the larger context, I suspect that men who don’t like women will often run into their mirror images, women who don’t like men. You’re right that a lot of men seem only to interact with women in the interest of sex.… Read more »
I hate to point out the bleeding obvious but if you “want” women, then you already like them.
Lol yep!
I third this. This article doesn’t make any sense at all.
If only that were true.
You Want Men? You Have to LIKE Men! There is a lot of contempt for men in this so called “rape culture.” We are primarily viewed as people wanting and waiting to commit violence and harm to women. In every single statistical category violence and rape committed by men against women is down over 60%-70% over the past three decades. It is akin to Black people still feeling that ALL white people are bigots and racists while ignoring the fact that we have a Black POTUS who received about 50% of the white vote. Just ludicrous. Change your thinking and… Read more »
” seriously , when was the last time either of you looked at a woman & got lost in her eyes & complemented her on them, ….etc”. Is this for real? ? Just because I like women it doesn’t mean I should approach them as if I was Teddy pedergrass/ Liberace / Smokey Robinson, :):), in this day & age rightly or wrongly of rampant accusations of sexual harassment, Creepy, rapey, sexist, bigoted, patriarchal behavior which can destroy or ruin your reputation not to mention leaves you with a criminal record on top of losing you job! !!, you must… Read more »
Have you seen Barbara Kay’s article about female interests recently? Barbara Kay: The female perspective where she says: As was widely reported last month, a media study has found that women in a wide spectrum of Western countries are significantly less knowledgeable than men about current affairs and politics. In Canada, the gender disparity is particularly wide. And yet you are asking young men to talk to them about these topics? Have you not seen DayTime TV? If women were seriously interested in these topics, wouldnt that be reflected in women’s DayTimeTV and magazines? Shouldnt you instead have a GoodWomenProject… Read more »
A GoodWomenProject site does exist. And it is about women tackling personal issues.
I do not know how true the study you mentioned is, but that doesn’t mean women don’t have anything intelligent to say on a wide variety of topics. We are not idiots. You can learn something from everyone if you are open to it.
If you have anything intelligent to say, then it comes as your responsibility to convey that intelligent information or thought. It is NOT the responsibility of someone else to ask you what you have to say, because there does not exist any way to know if someone else has anything intelligent to say a priori. If you think that you have something intelligent to say to other people, the burden of proof of showing that to other people lies with you and no one else.
Umm… I never said it was someone else’s responsibility to convey someone else’s intelligent thoughts. I don’t even know how your response applies to the conversation Doug. Astrokid implied that young women do not like to talk about intelligent things like young men do. He based his belief on DayTime TV and magazines. He forgets that just as many women as men are working during the day. He also forgets that Maxim magazine and Spike TV don’t exactly do a lot to show what men may relaly be interested in.
I based my belief on Daytime TV and magazines? I first included Barbara Kay’s article, and you started questioning its veracity. Fell free to do that.. but I based my argument on multiple things. Including Daytime TV & magazines. Something I didn’t mention was my own personal experience, as well as what Esther Vilar said in her 1970s work “The Manipulated Man”. As well as this black woman, who chastizes black women for their lack of allroundedness. On the Couch #4: Black Women Ain’t Shit…. Does that mean all women are like that? Of course not.. Its a good generalization,… Read more »
Askrokid, you said, and I quote, “And yet you are asking young men to talk to them about these topics? Have you not seen DayTime TV? If women were seriously interested in these topics, wouldn’t that be reflected in women’s DayTimeTV and magazines?” You ignore what men’s magazines and the TV men are interested says about men. And yes, you provided an article about a “media study” that really gives us no information about how the study was conducted, who the control group exactly was and how much of a control group there actually was and what where the exact… Read more »
“I based my belief on Daytime TV and magazines?”
And you completely failed to realize that basing your opinions of women on those things is about as reasonable as me basing my opinions of men on Jackass and Beavis & Butthead. Have you never heard the phrase “lowest common denominator?”
“He should have addressed women to up their game.” Of course, if women needed to, they should up their game, absolutely. The same goes for men. But what he was saying is: men could try to talk about something else with women… instead of just sex. That is all. Now you are trying to say women are somewhat inferior, so men should just not give them that much of a chance. Pathetic, straight bro. “Another issue would be to reduce their self-objectification. Women dress enormously more skimpily today than say 30 years ago.. and in response you want men to… Read more »
Thank you! I studied martial arts for years, I watched the evolution into MMA.. I watched the respect descend. In my own silent way I refused to call it MMA .. the art had left the mix. It became cage fighting. In the DoJo we didn’t have big booby women with numbers to tell us the score … sure the guys could have been chatting about them in changing room – but respectfully kept to their private banter. Now something, initially so interesting as the challenge of different fighting styles an exchange of skills has become a testosterone filled world… Read more »
lol
That is not insecurity, that is simply those kinds of men being those kinds of men. When women and men call high-testosterone activities like this insecure, I see it as projection…it makes them feel insecure about something. And no, I am not an MMA guy. I just happen to know that when guys like that get called insecure when they fight (professionally), drink beer and have hot women around…it’s because the person saying it is the one that feels insecure.
Well said.
If you treat women like notches in your belt, you will end up valuing them about as much as notches in your belt.
I get what this piece is doing and I like it. However…that whole second paragraph is problematic. It’s really not okay to treat hooking up with women as notches on a belt or “conquests.” I mean, that’s part of the same problem that you’re talking about in the rest of the article…treating women as though they aren’t whole people.
I find the article well intended but seems to be slutshaming to the men this time. Not everyone wants to have one partner, polygamous people and casual sex shouldn’t be shamed. That said the guys I know who treat women like shit have no trouble getting women and keeping them, it’s the guys that respect women I notice tend to be too damn shy to get a woman or end up being walked over. It’s a myth that hating women will leave you single, there are far too many men n women who will date people who hate their gender… Read more »
@ HeatherN “It’s really not okay to treat hooking up with women as notches on a belt or “conquests.” I mean, that’s part of the same problem that you’re talking about in the rest of the article…treating women as though they aren’t whole people.” I find it problematic, but don’t think this is the reason. The author’s not saying that the women didn’t enjoy the sex or that they’re selfish lovers although that could be another article. If you’re just “hooking up”, you don’t need to see your partner as a “whole human” as long as you treat them as… Read more »
Most women always see men as whole human, even when just hooking up. It is not about need, but just automatic – humans are always whole humans, so we see men, who are humans, as whole humans. Why is it so difficult for straight men to see women as humans? Really, why always dehumanizing women in many ways, in many situations?
And oh, most guys also do not care about women’s pleasure that much.
If you think that men are more likely to dehumanize women then you really don’t know many men. I’d say there are somewhat equal numbers of shitty people.
At worst you’ve engaged in mental manipulation here, and at worse you’ve equivocated here.
Treating “hooking up” up with women as notches on a belt or “conquests” refers to how such gets perceived by men. It refers to a mental state.
Treating men OR women as though they weren’t whole people refers to a *behavior* or believed behavioral tendency.
There exists a world of difference between the two, and they preferably do not get regarded as morally equivalent in general.
Thanks for the piece. (Pun intended)
No problem, Gint…LOL!
Just as a heads up those guys really don’t represent us 20 year old males, there just the vocal loud types that the media pretends we all are. Equally kim Kardashian does not represent the female population which is something we can all be thankful for.
Thank you Greg!
Yes men! Respect the women sexuality, and both will be able to have fun, share stories, experiences, be happy, and all this together! The sooner the better! Don’t wait til 40! rsrs
You are welcome, Lorelei 😉
you write
> what puzzles me is this. In both Bro and hip-hop culture, there seems to be a…contempt for women.
Let me solve you puzzle.
Women are most likely to have a one stand affair with someone that has contempt for them, and just wants sex. All your advise to be kind,etc . is not effective advise when it comes to “scoring” probability. It may be good advise for people looking for a wife, but not for tose people with golas as you stated.
I hope I doslved the mystery for you, now?
You’re both wrong. Women are most likely to have a one night stand with someone they find sexually attractive, when the person is a stranger.
Whoa. Congratulations, man – you just solved the mystery of scoring, and no I’m not being sarcastic. I’ve been trying to tell this to the “women only want assholes” morons for years. Maybe they’ll actually listen to you, since you have a traditionally male name.
Thank you for this. Hope those yolo boys listen to you.
They will. They just need to turn 40….LOL!
Respect goes both ways. If you really believe that men and women are equal then you accept that women are just as capable of bad behavior as men are. Most men are not angry or bitter, including the younger ones you mentioned. They have just looked around and concluded that societies definition of a “real man” is an appliance or ATM who is only valued for what he can provide to others. Or as cannon fodder for politicians and corporations. It is a system that has reduced real manhood to a joke. You can put on a dog and pony… Read more »