Guilty – I find math jokes hilarious. When they are in fact jokes about math…
—
I belong to a group on Facebook dedicated to the sole purpose of sharing math jokes. They make me groan or roll my eyes and occasionally laugh out loud. Once in a while someone will post a joke like this:
Yo Mamma’s so fat, her favorite day is Pi day.
Which is not only painfully unfunny, it’s also misogynistic, fat-shamey, and not even about math.
Usually when a group starts posting too much offensive content, I just leave the group. But these are math jokes.
|
So I sigh and keep scrolling, hoping the rest of the jokes for that day will have more content and be less offensive. But then this happens:
Why do we have Pi day and Women’s day but we don’t have Men’s day?
Because men are rational!
By now I’m annoyed, but I tell myself to let it go, he was just trying to make a joke about pi being an irrational number, haha. It’s just a joke
And then someone posted this:
Woman = time * money
Time = money
Money is the root of all problems
Therefore, Woman = problems
So I decided to speak my mind and commented, “Did they run out of jokes at the funny joke store where you shop?” (Night at the Museum II is a family favorite.)
“As a [female] mathematician, I have some trouble with the amount of jokes posted here that are about women.”
|
My comment made people angry. ‘Look how many people thought it was funny,’ they said. ‘It’s your choice to be offended,’ they said. ‘It’s just a joke, get a sense of humor.’
Usually when a group starts posting too much offensive content, I just leave the group. But these are math jokes. I love math jokes. I want to stick around for the other 90% which are funny. So I decided to say something. I typed up a serious post for the group, which, to summarize, said:
“As a [female] mathematician, I have some trouble with the amount of jokes posted here that are about women. There is already a huge gap between the number of men and women in math. […] Let’s try to make this group a space where everyone can feel like they belong.”
The original post and comments, in Hebrew, can be viewed here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1468380300090389/permalink/1664671797127904/
◊♦◊
Immediately came a rush of agreement and thanks from many female members of the group. But backlash was incredible. I can’t say I didn’t expect it, given the attitude I had met from the previous comment about the women=problems post. Here are some examples of response comments:
“So you went through 1000(!) posts and found 10 that were offensive to women. Nice. I thought I was obsessive…Grow a couple.”
“Your post creates a bad name for all women in general, and specifically for us women in this group.”
“Your post ruined my Friday morning.”
“Hi girls, I wanted to post a math joke, but I’m afraid I’ll be attacked if I do.”
“This post reinforces the stereotype that women are irrational and overly sensitive.”
I am overwhelmed and grateful for all the support, for every man who stood up to his peers and called them out.
|
“Who are you to decide what kind of jokes I can laugh at? If you’re offended, that’s your problem. You are being a bully and acting in a way worthy of Iran or some place where women are objects. Shame on you.”
“Get a sense of humor.”
“I don’t think [you are] looking for a solution, just attention and pity.”
“I’ve had enough. What a humorless party-pooper.”
“What a shame that you allow your feminist opinions to blind you, and worse, to try to ruin this group.”
“Taking an offensive joke is a price you should be willing to pay.”
Then there was one comment which stood out:
“Your argument is right, but you’re wrong to try to convince men who are defective and egotistical who would never accept criticism even if it is justified, and certainly not from a woman.”
To which I responded,
“Well, then, back me up. Men, speak up!”
And then came the following responses, all from men.
“Liora, you are not alone! I also feel that the jokes about women are offensive and not funny.”
“I never thought those jokes offended anyone, but now I see the amount of women who are hurt by them and I really do think we should stop telling them. Even if I personally am not offended, the fact is that some women here are and we need to respect them.”
“What is with you guys? Someone said it’s offensive, apologize and stop posting them. It’s that simple. When women ask you not to tell offensive jokes, stop telling them they are being whiny or have no sense of humor. Behave like human beings.”
“To all of my penis-owning friends, we are not women. We do not experience the jokes in the same way. So most of us are not offended, and we might not even notice the misogyny in them. But if someone tells me his tooth hurts, I won’t silence him by claiming that my teeth feel fine. If she says the jokes are offensive, I believe her, and if I find a joke that contains gender references, I’ll think twice before posting it. We’re here to have fun, not to hurt anyone.”
“Liora, great post. It’s a shame you had to take so much pigheadedness in response.”
“I’ve started a new group. It’s called Misogynistic Math Jokes. Take your misogynistic math humor there.”
Here’s to a better future, a better world for our boys and girls to grow up in.
|
“Guys, guys…I don’t get what your problem is. Someone said she was offended, and she is clearly not the only one. What’s so hard about just accepting? Why are you acting like it will somehow destroy the group? It seems to me that not posting these offensive jokes will only improve the quality of our group.”
“How does saying that there were ‘only 10’ misogynistic jokes out of 1000 prove anything but the fact that there were 10 misogynistic jokes?”
Each response received its own dose of backlash.
◊♦◊
I am overwhelmed and grateful for all the support, for every man who stood up to his peers and called them out. Every man who showed that women’s issues are not in fact only women’s issues, they are human rights issues. Men who reminded us that there are not only rude, self centered, egotistical dunderheads out there, but also caring, empathetic, kind men who love women and are not afraid to call injustice by its name. I am proud to be part of a group with you.
In an unexpected turn of events, about 12 hours after my post, a group admin invited me to join the team of group moderators. I now have the ability to remove posts and block users from the group, which means no more misogynistic math jokes over here! What this tells me is that the message was received. My voice was heard. But I think that is greatly due to the amount of men who spoke up in support of me and my fellow women mathematicians.
It’s easy to look back at the comments and think, wow, there is no chance for equality in the future. Why would any woman want to learn mathematics if it means being surrounded by attitudes like those? But from the supportive responses, it is evident that men also care about equality. Misogyny is becoming less socially acceptable. Men have joined the fight for women’s rights and respect. History has shown us that the civil rights movement did not take off until white people marched alongside black people. Likewise, the movement for equality will not win until men fight alongside women. Following my post about math jokes, I saw proof of that happening. So instead of being crushed and disheartened, I am hopeful.
Here’s to a better future, a better world for our boys and girls to grow up in.
This article was originally published on Liora Sophie.
It’s an old joke I heard a long time ago, and I probably butchered parts of it, but anyway:
– What kind of animals demanded that Noah brought some old tree trunks along on the Ark?
– The Adders, because they need logs to multiply…
@ DJ “I now have the ability to remove posts and block users from the group, which means no more misogynistic math jokes over here! ” What concerns me about this is that I don’t believe she has the temperament for it. Had this been a typical feminist site (I know it’s progressive not feminist. Just saying if it were.), I would have been banned three years ago. Had I been banned, I would not have grown to the extent that I believe that I have. I don’t really see this article as being that bad. My concern is that… Read more »
@John Gottman of course it’s not about banning someone as soon as they post a joke, although that is what everyone is so worried about. You missed the point. The point is not to exercise control over others in the group, but to make the group a place where everyone can feel like they belong. And everyone includes men, so all I have to say to your comment is DUH. Thank you.
Good to hear the moderators will be moderate. I’m an IT person so by nature I’m a free flow of ideas guy. I’m the guy that would point out that there is men’s day when they said that there is no men’s day because men are rational. International Men’s Day is November 19th. If fact it would be a travesty if there wasn’t. Teachable moments might be the best solution.
That’s not what I’m worried about. What I’m worried about is your hyper sensitivity dictating the ebb and flow of exchange based upon what you obviously find offensive. with age and experience, through events that start out this way there are many that have seen the road to hell and how it is paved. We’ve seen how the intent of justice has turned to oppression of men when power is wielded not with responsibility, but with the idea of control. An example of this is the 209A, restraining order intended to “protect” abused women quickly turn into a powerful weapon… Read more »
Liora – Thank you for the insights of your last paragraph. And thank you for reminding me of the men out there supporting positive change and display a willingness to work with us ladies. Totally heart warming.
Thanks for your support!<3
@Erin Well that’s all well and good for those in the seat of power dictating the parameters of existence for the other, not so great for those being oppressed….as women should certainly know by now. What one may call “working with”, may very well be simply forced into acquiescence by the power structure at hand, based upon “their” idea of “inclusion” based upon “their” idea of how men should act, enforced by silencing said other. Humor is an aspect of the male being, and as I’ve stated, the overwhelming majority of jokes are on us, that we often poke and… Read more »
“We’ve had a number of articles on problems for men in education, but we could use more. Perhaps you’d like to submit one?” ____________________ Perhaps, Micheal. I’ve already been out there. I’ve spoken and written on the subjects at hand, even appeared on local TV talk shows. I’ve debated the authors of the “How schools shortchange girls” report that was the impetus of the issues we now see with our boys because I foresaw the results we now face. No one cared to listen, and it was a terrible and draining battle back then. We’ve evolved far and wide beyond… Read more »
“the issues we now see with our boys because I foresaw the results we now face. No one cared to listen, and it was a terrible and draining battle back then.”
I was running funding systems for schools in Australia during that time frame. Many folk, including myself, were predicting a very grim future for boys in education but were branded “misogynists looking to hold women back”. It was one of the matters that triggered my eventual abandonment of feminism as a valid belief system.
Where did I get the idea? Here: https://goodmenproject.com/about/ “We explore the world of men and manhood in a way that no media company ever has, tackling the issues and questions that are most relevant to men’s lives. We write about fatherhood, family, sex, ethics, war, gender, politics, sports, pornography, and aging. We shy away from nothing. Our content reflects the multidimensionality of men — we are alternatively funny and serious, provocative and thoughtful, earnest and light-hearted. We search far and wide for new stories and new voices from “the front lines of modern manhood.” And we do it without moralizing… Read more »
I have always heard, Money was the root of all Evil.
Clearly, it was already softened it for the S.J.W. Purple Penguins
Did the author realize that 99.9% of jokes begin with “two GUYS walk into a bar?”, that we are so full of our own sexism that we fail to see that men are the brunt of all jokes until a few, a tiny percentage are directed at women, that the gist of the joke tells us far more then the joke itself…and our brains go on vacation while our emotions grab the wheel? it’s not that I’m a fan of putting women down. Not at all, but I am a fan of astute discussion and rational thought. With that the… Read more »
“In an unexpected turn of events, about 12 hours after my post, a group admin invited me to join the team of group moderators. I now have the ability to remove posts and block users from the group, which means no more misogynistic math jokes over here!” Great, You go grrl! Censorship is always the best answer…especially when their sexism forces us to see our own sexism. Lets start removing men from employment too, not for saying anything that may or may not be worthy of debate, but because women don’t want to hear it…especially when one can see such… Read more »
“I remember a time when I escorted one of my male employees, a victim of Domestic Violence, to a police station. When we approached the office full of women we noted “jokes” on the wall to the likes of: “Two many men, too few bullets”, “Grow your own dope, plant a man”. That was in the Police station of Plymouth Massachusetts of all places. The man turned and walked out…and I almost got myself arrested.” Christ that’s scary. I think your friend made the right choice, had he proceeded he’d probably be behind bars right now. Nothing in that situation… Read more »
Where jokes perpetuate damaging stereotypes about men, we should push back on those too. But, it’s a serious misreading of the situation to believe that most are directed at men. Women certainly can engage in negative behaviors toward men, but there are far more misogynistic ones out there. And, if we want women to be allies, we should be allies for them.
@ Michael Carley
“but there are far more misogynistic ones out there”
I don’t know that I would agree. There are studies done on internet abuse and revenge porn that show men are the primary victims of them. I wouldn’t be surprised if men were the primary “victims” here as well. Men don’t complain as often, but when they do, they don’t get heard.
“if we want women to be allies, we should be allies for them.”
Agreed with the stipulation that ally-ship doesn’t require hurting men, hence the concern I had for the misuse of power.
Re: In an unexpected turn of events, about 12 hours after my post, a group admin invited me to join the team of group moderators. Now that is just too cool !!! There might be a few drawbacks. You get so sick and tired of censoring all that nonsense that you give up on men entirely. I am male and sometimes I feel that way about men myself. I wish I could grab them by the throats and drag them up to jury of women and make them tell us just what the hell is your problem. The jury could… Read more »
4 female mathematicians walk into a bar. One orders s beer priced at $3.00, 2 order Long Island Iced Teas priced at $6.00 each, and the last orders a rum and Coke priced at $4.00. What was the bar bill? Obviously it was 0, they went on ladies night.
I wholeheartedly agree with this article and I am a women, as well as a medical student (therefore I don’t suck at math … well kind of lol). However, your joke does bring up another problem. Men’s nights? So few and far between. Ladies nights? All over the place!! Why can’t men have their nights, too? The whole issue is equality, right? Yet this whole feminist movement (as a whole – not certain individuals) seem to think that ‘equality’ means being put on a pedestal. And as this is maths based, I would assume that ‘equality’ is a very well… Read more »
Dammit. Sorry – autocorrect bites me again. Correction: I am a woman, not a ‘women’… My bad.
Well technically they are to draw more women into the bar, which draws in more men who pay for women’s drinks to try even the gender ratio so it isn’t a sausage fest.
I have one for you, John.
Question:
Why are we, on a board aimed at addressing the disadvantages that our men and boys face, blowing a minute infraction into a cataclysmic detriment to women in math while our boys have dropped to a mere 30% of overall enrollment, and our girls now dominate every single other aspect of the curriculum, are earning more and greater degrees, and out earning our boys now…with all indication demonstrating that the trend is not only worsening, but doing so exponentially?
Answer: Shush!
Get it? LOL
We’ve had a number of articles on problems for men in education, but we could use more. Perhaps you’d like to submit one?
None of that means we shouldn’t post articles by women (who comprise about a quarter of GMP contributors). This is a site devoted to discussing men’s issues and a variety of issues related to how men and women can be better allies. This piece fits that theme perfectly.
Don’t get me wrong, Michael. I fully support the inclusion of articles about women’s issues, and have written comments to that end. I just do not see this as one of them, or a reason to censor. That is a very slippery slope. The author may find such offensive, and if so, speak her mind on the subject, voice contention, teach. I see such as opportunity for discourse, but ascending to a position of authority so as to censor is not something that I favor at all. I disagree that women face more hate in this country then do men.… Read more »
Oh yeah. GMP has done a *grand* job of covering the education of boys.
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/andrew-smiler-the-women-are-smarter-so-what/
“Girls get better grades then boys. But, you know, there’s a couple hundred middle aged men who are CEOs of big companies. So really it’s a wash, right?”
DJ I’m not sure where you got the idea that this is a board aimed at “addressing the disadvantages that our men and boys face.” While that is certainly one topic that concerns us, it isn’t the only aspect of our conversation. While the “changing roles of men in the 21st century” have brought about some disadvantages for men, we believe we have seen progress in reducing some of the disadvantages that have been inherent in masculinity for centuries.
Dicie, perhaps you can expound on the “progress?”
“inherent in masculinity for centuries”
Ah, yes, it’s “inherent”. They are born that way and need to be reprogrammed.