Lynn Beisner re-examines the rite of passage that is “first sex” after learning her son lost his virginity in a three-way with an older couple.
Originally appeared at Role/Reboot
Last Friday, I went to go pick up my college-age son to bring him home for the weekend. On the two-hour drive home, he broke the news to me that he had lost his virginity. That was hardly surprising since he is almost 19 and has had an active dating life since he was in middle school. What was stunning was how he lost it: in what he calls a “panda three-way”—a young, inexperienced man having sex with a slightly older established heterosexual couple. I was glad that I was driving and that the car was dark. I would have hated for him to have seen the shock and horror that must have registered on my face.
I was literally speechless. Thankfully, I was able to make a sound that conveyed to my son support and a desire for more information. So he went on to tell me about the concept behind a panda three-way. It seems that there is a popular video from a nature show that talks about how young male pandas are introduced to sex: in a three-way with an older established couple. My son told me that it was not just good, it was wonderful, the best “first time” that he can imagine any guy having. He says it was great to have a guided tour of a woman’s body from someone who knew it well and loved the woman in it. Knowing that there was another person there who could see to his partner’s pleasure should he fail left him free to explore, ask questions, and bask in the joy of the experience.
♦◊♦
As soon as I recovered my power of speech, I was able to express my pressing concern about whether the woman involved was able to give meaningful consent since the men had her outnumbered two to one. Even if she gave consent, I wondered, was it truly enthusiastic or was she emotionally coerced? My son responded by telling me that panda three-ways were “sort of her thing.” Some time before, she had seen the video about the panda three-way, remembered how awkward and awful it had been for the inexperienced guys she had been with, and decided that she wanted to help younger guys become confident, giving sexual partners. My son was the fourth guy to join her and her man in a panda three-way.
My son told me that as much as he enjoyed it, he did not plan to do multiple partner sex again. He thought it was great as an introduction, but now he wanted to go back to a single heterosexual partner. As I audibly sighed with relief, he reminded me gently, “Mom, poly is the new gay.” If I wanted to keep my cred as a liberal parent I would need to accept it. This set me back for a second. I thought about how quick I was to judge other parents who refused to accept their adult children’s homosexual relationships. Poly is the outpost on the sex positive frontier that my children’s generation has reached.
I am glad to say that I passed that test of parenting. I told him that I was happy that the experience was a good one for him and that if he decided to go poly or gay or anything else, I would love and respect him. I also told him that I was proud that I obviously raised a guy who is not homophobic and “not inclined to succumb to the pressure of hegemonic masculinity.” (He was raised by a feminist, so he knew what that meant.)
♦◊♦
I assumed that my son would want to keep it a secret from the rest of the family. But when we arrived home, I discovered that my daughter (two years older than my son) already knew. She approved of what her brother had experienced, and told me that when she was a younger, a slightly older couple had offered her the same thing. She declined—and regretted it. She says that her first time kind of sucked because she was horribly anxious and their chemistry was so intense that it became a fumble-fest that ended with her in discomfort and emotional distress. She thinks it would have been much better had she consummated her relationship with her boyfriend after she had “gotten the first time out of the way” with a couple—“a guy who knew what he was doing, with a woman there to help me figure out what I want to be doing.”
If my daughter’s frank discussion didn’t have my chin bouncing off of the floor, it was after my son told my husband about the panda three-way. My very British 50-year-old husband got a little misty-eyed. His voice broke as he told my son that he thought that might well be one of the best ways for a guy to learn how to please a woman. He ended by saying: “I wish that had been available to me.”
My son’s joyful first experience seems to be making helping him define what it means to be a man. His emerging definition of masculinity is obviously one not rooted in homophobia or in conforming to the traditional standards of masculinity created by our society. He has defined for himself what it means to be a man: Men can enjoy sex and make sex enjoyable for others. In his definition, men are fundamentally curious about women, not just about their bodies, but interested in their feelings, thoughts and experiences. Having defined what it means to be a man, he now feels competent to fulfill the obligations and enjoy the pleasures of that role, remaining teachable all the while.
♦◊♦
My son’s experience has my husband rethinking what our society’s norm should be for the rite of passage that is “first sex.” He wonders what it would be like if most young people had the option of entering sexual maturity under the guidance of a stable, slightly older couple. He looked me in the eye yesterday and softly said, “I can’t imagine how much better that would have been for me.” He added, his voice cracking just a bit, “and especially for you.”
I grinned and asked, “Are you asking us to be one of these guidance couples?” He looked at me in horror and said, “God no! I wouldn’t want that kind of responsibility. No way, those people will need training and vetting and supervision…and…and all sorts of stuff.” I hadn’t thought about that part: How would we get people to volunteer?
As humorous as I find my husband’s grand idea, I think he is onto an important notion. Perhaps we should change how we construct virginity-loss in our culture. Perhaps we should treat it as an individual rite of passage, not as the first encounter of a person’s first committed relationship. What if a person coming of age truly did have a number of choices? What if they could choose to have their first experience in a celebratory group sexual encounter, or in the panda three-way, or in an assisted encounter with their beloved? I am not saying that we should make all of these things available to young people, I am just asking what would happen if we did. What would it mean to transform our rituals for virginity loss? Would we be a happier society? Judging by what I’ve learned from my son, my daughter, and my own experience, I can’t help but think the answer to that last question might well be yes.
Lynn Biesner is the pseudonym for a mother, a writer, a feminist, and an academic living somewhere East of the Mississippi.
Photo courtesy of the mechanical turk
“poly is the new gay.” Exactly.
Which is why there must be more discussion about relagalizing polygamy. They already have it in Canada .
Thank you for writing such a wonderful article. 🙂
I might be a little late commenting on this, but I’m not sure what, exactly, is so horrible about having a slightly awkward first time. I think that there’s a lot to be said about having two people, who are equals, learn and experience things together as they go. Especially when they’re young, people should be free to explore their sexuality without having to worry about how ‘good’ they are in bed. There’s way too much sexual pressure in our society. If the young man fiddles with his girlfriend’s bra straps and has to ask her a few questions about… Read more »
I think what the couple did with the young man was a beautiful, loving thing. How anyone can believe there was anything wrong with what these three consenting adults did is beyond me. And it sounded like the mother, after getting over her initial shock, learned something a out her family as well. I applaud their openness.
I do think that sexuality is magic time. The aura created around good sex is pretty spiritual– not ordinary. So, to borrow an idea from Durkheim, it becomes sort of a sacred space. I’ve experienced this during three way sex as well as during one partner sex, although I’d argue that three-ways are actually harder to inscribe a sacred circle around than two ways. I can imagine how wonderful it might be to be initiated by an older couple as a young man. In this fetishized, commercialized society, I think we are justly nervous that our partners are going by… Read more »
@ Sandy & NatureArtist, thank you for your kind words. As a father, I teach my children proper names for things, what is theirs & private, and that they can tell us anything or ask us anything. Embarrassment over that kind of exchange has left so many children ignorant of dangers and many have been sexually abused and scared to tell because they were never taught those things. Frankly the idea that “allowing” LGBT people to be accepted could lead to beastiality or cannibalism is the sign (to me) of a disturbingly deep ignorance and intolerance. Attitudes like that are… Read more »
On the cannibalism/polyamory connection:
I don’t have the figures on this, but I’d wager money on the hypothesis that the overwhelming majority of acts of cannibalism are carried out in monogamous cultures, whether the cannibalism was a response to starvation or was a regular part of their culture. Having a strictly (or at least officially) monogamous outlook towards sex did not stop the Donner Party or the rugby team in the Andes….
I think the mom is a fantastic role model; IMHO, more moms and feminists ought to be like her — open-minded and liberal, acceptance of all forms of sexual expressions. We are moving towards the future, we are in the 21st century — we must leave behind old prude, Medieval ways…there’s no place for that kind of ideology and blasphemy in the era of sexual liberation, gays and lesbians and Apple generation. We need to be hip to be cool! Moral values are soooo yesterday! Sexual liberation is not only for feminists — we must be inclusive of youth as… Read more »
Michelle,
Firstly, sarcasm and snark do not help promote dialogue. But with that out of the way…in a completely objective way, how is being accepting of a three-way between consenting adults any different than accepting lgb relationships? Also, how is being open to anything so long as everyone is consenting and no one is hurt, a bad thing? I’m not asking how it goes against your personal morals…that’s a separate question. I’m asking how it’s a bad thing?
It’s not about being ‘hip’ or ‘cool;’ it’s about acknowledging that there is no one right way when it comes to sex.
Hello Michelle, I’m going to keep this post here as an indicator of your disrespect and sarcasm to the other posters of this forum and to the author of the piece. Your original post was deleted because it went against our community commenting policy, conflating acts into false equivalencies, generalizing against communities, and creating a very toxic tone. This piece does the same thing, only you are employing sarcasm at HeatherN’s expense, in order to do as she wisely suggested which was to craft your opposition to the article in ways that didn’t push back against our commenting policy. We… Read more »
“I’m going to keep this post here as an indicator of your disrespect and sarcasm to the other posters of this forum and to the author of the piece.
Your original post was deleted because it went against our community commenting policy, conflating acts into false equivalencies, generalizing against communities, and creating a very toxic tone.”
I would prefer to see the original comment. Maybe moderation is going to far. Her sarcastic comment is perfectly reasonable to me.
It is sad that people cannot state opposing views or have different moral values than those on this thread. It was moderated for that fact alone. There’s no “speak your mind” here. You may only speak it, if your opinion agrees with the poster and commenters on here.
People cared enough to complain to have my post deleted. Must have struck a chord?
Oh come on, Michelle. You’ve made plenty of comments that people disagree with, and you and I (for example) have discussed our different moral values at length. I’m sure if your comment was moderated it was because it violated the commenting policy, and that’s it. The moderators don’t moderate comments because someone makes a complaint (if that even happened).
I suggest trying to re-state what you said but this time keeping in mind the commenting policy, which you can find here: https://goodmenproject.com/commenting-policy/
@MichelleG: “People cared enough to complain to have my post deleted”
As much as I disagree with what you said, I – for sure – didn’t complain.
I never censor; at worst, I mock. It’s funnier that way. 😉
The most ‘shocking’ part of this article was the openness this kid has with his parents. I recently visited my old room in my house and found a hidden stash of condoms and old empty packets of birth control. I did all I could to hide the fact I was even having sex at that age. And I was doing this until I was 22….I think it’s great that he can be so open with his parents, even if it’s a little odd from my point of view.
I am quite suspicious of all the case finding that takes place around sexuality. After reifying young women as victims, there’s been quite a strong movement to nominally “victim-name” young men who have had unusual sexual experiences as victims too. While the real victimization of children is actual and deplorable, much of this extended case finding as applied to teens and older represents a moral panic and opportunities for moralists and social entrepreneurs to expand their businesses. Victorianism is good business. The more sexual things we find to deplore, the more we can get funding, prestige, etc.
Maybe it wasn’t “our moral values,” that were lost along the way? They were just yours? You go ahead and make the call about what’s right and wrong. But don’t expect anyone else to care.
That’s a sad perspective, the difference between living humans having sex with each other in a consenting way and all those other things you mentioned is huge! I feel genuine pity for you and guilt you must constantly feel.
@MichelleG: “So we have bestiality; we have panda-3 way, orgies, BSDM, sexual aphyxiation […]
Is cannibalism back?”
Oh my…
It must be hell inside your mind. 😉
Michelle’s Comment has been moderated.
That message must have been deleted.
As for bestiality, MichelleG, you do know that “panda sex” is a metaphor, right? The lad did not actually have sex with a panda.
Not sure about the cannibalism connection. People do regularly consume other people’s bodily fluids in many forms of sexuality, but I don’t think that really counts.
That is one wild, slippery slope argument you got there.
No. The cannibalism happens when a woman gets pregnant. The fetus is basically a human parasite living in a woman. She’s the host. So, it’s like a person eating another person. That’s the sex and cannibalism connection. 🙂
All I know is this string of responses is very telling and in some cases expected and not surprising. Enough said on my part.
I had no problems with the article; the son is nineteen, an adult able to consent. The family talks about sexual topics openly and I consider that far healthier than treating sex and sexuality like a dirty secret, which too often goes hand-in-hand with teaching children incorrect names for body parts out of fear or repressed discomfort. As a survivor of child abuse, torture, and incest, my “first sex” was at age four, raped by my father. He also rented me to his pedophile friends for money. However, I don’t view sex as dirty or evil, or always an abusive… Read more »
I’m always interested in what you have to say, W.R.R. and I especially love your poems and verses. You’ve had one hell of a life but thanks to your loves and your children, you will slowly pull out of your depressions and fears. Still reading your tweets.
I am deeply saddened by your abuse. I do hope that you will have better days ahead. No one should ever have to go through what you have been through.
Not creepy when I was a kid, my folks were incredibly open about sex, which lead to my first experiences with my high school girlfriend being awesome (no older couple, just 2 kids exploring each other). I’ve already started teaching my kids about reproduction, relationships, and that it’s OK to be poly. Full disclosure, I started identifying as poly a few years ago and have no interest in going back to monogamy. It sounds like the older couple in this story were very sex positive and that the woman was in fact running the show (not so uncommon in the… Read more »
This actually made my skin crawl. I sincerely hope this is a troll story and not a real one. Firstly I cannot see any man being so comfortable ma with talking about sex with his mother. I find it nearly obscene that some of the answers on here are trying to show support for an act that was clearly an older couple using a young man for their sexual games. We all like to act like we can just brush off sexual experiences and be clinical and almost professional about sexual training…but people can’t! I find it down right silly… Read more »
Unfortunately you and many other responders are Illerate and unenformed about sex and sexuality. Its truly sad.
Actually I am using my phone so the key board is not easy to use and I cannot be bothered to amend some of the mistakes I make as any human with a brain can see that they are typos (clealry not you though) well if I have such a poor sense of what makes up a happy sex life im sure you would volunteer your wife to be a training ground for young men from across the land. I find it sad that in your childish attempt to make yourself seem mature by condoning sick acts like this it… Read more »
Actually I didn’t have to volunteer my wife for anything being a sex addict she fucked “anything with pants on” as the old saying goes. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure that included my son. (But by the time he was twelve I was persona non grata thanks to the Social Workers)
But I can safely say that I have a number of friends that regularly have extra partners. Check alt.polyamory.
Why are you assuming this is an ad?
Actually I have a number of friends that ocassionally or more frequently invite extramarital partners into their beds. See alt.polyamory.com.
I’m pretty sure that “perversion” comes from repression, not expression.
I enjoy my sex private and exclusive. I love sex, not afraid of it, never have been. I COULD talk about it and attempt to have it with everyone on the planet, but I choose not to. Maybe if we reject the constant bombardment of sexual perversion like porn and sexual objectification we wouldn’t be so S.C.A.R.E.D. of something so beautiful. I found this C.R.E.E.P.Y.
Because of my horrific high school days I was 26 when I lost my virginity. It was a stumbling mess. I used exhaustion as an excuse. Since I would have peolonged sessions later the girl assumed that this was the truth. With my parents, especially my mother, I was very honest. So when I had my firsts I told my mother about them. One of the funniest things was when I was coming home from graduate school. I had my comps and then had to move out of my apartment. This was followed by the long drive back to NC… Read more »
So personally I think this is a lovely story and not creepy at all. (Yes it is problematic that the author worried the woman had been “outnumbered,” so to speak…but that’s somewhat tangential to the rest of the story). I’m curious though, for everyone who is saying they think this is creepy or that the 19-year-old couldn’t give consent. Would you say the same thing if the couple had been two women and he’d been the only man? What if it’d been a gay male couple? What if the 19-year-old had been a woman who’d had sex with two other… Read more »
I think it’s because we have a deeply embedded sense of collective shame about sex. My opinion, but I see that our nation is terribly terribly fraught about it. Parents aren’t supposed to teach their kids anything, schools can’t. I know people who won’t even use the proper words for parts with their kids. This is your “tee tee” or your “nee nees” which is OUTRAGEOUS. Combine that internalized story with a tale here of a family doing something different….talking about sex, pleasure, happiness. Combine that with a paradigm of erotic literacy training by an experienced person/couple that is different… Read more »
“Taking the fumbling first time with someone special often after marriage but not always…or else sex is impure…and the fumbling first time is supposed to be good?” I’ve always found this as being so weird. The story I always heard about sex when I was a teenager is that I wouldn’t like it the first time. The boy (cuz obviously it’d be with a boy) would probably be inexperienced and I’d be inexperienced, so it’d suck. But hey…it’d get better over time. Like…what? Who thinks that’s a good way to introduce people to sex? Maybe that’s why we’re so conflicted… Read more »
No, I agree. Why should anyone else get a first time full of pleasure when I didn’t!
Sex isn’t always great and wonderful every time when you’re not a virgin, so maybe a lame first experience is actually a good introduction to one part of the reality of sexuality. Some people have completely unrealistic expectations about sex in the positive direction, and that’s hardly conducive to great sexual relationships either.
True enough.
“Sex isn’t always great and wonderful every time when you’re not a virgin”
Don’t I know it. 🙂
There is nothing creepy about it at all. I think it is wonderful that a young adult (man or woman) feels free to explore him/herself in any way, with any person, any number, any situation. In my opinion, experimentation outside the norm requires increased vigilance for possible abuse. This is not a moral issue, it is a practical issue. This is especially true when there is a large power inbalance, as in this case. If this young man is abused, he may not feel that his family will support him. If the parent-child dynamic is characterized by a negative and… Read more »
Okay but, I think you’re jumping to conclusions based on one story from one event in the family. The mother’s initial reaction was problematic, sure…but it’s not like it’s a sure-fire indicator that she’s raising her son to think of himself as a “domesticated beast” or something.
You are right, I am jumping to conclusions. The risk to the young man is probably very small.
I wonder if you agree that “experimentation outside the norm requires increased vigilance”? I am a big fan of freedom and self determination, but I am also a fan of managing risk based on reality as it is, and not as we wish it were.
Heck, man, I think even when working within the norm (sexually) people need to be vigilant. One-night-stands, for example, are within the norm, and yet there’s always the potential that you go home with the wrong person. It’s unlikely, but it’s there…and thus yeah, always stay vigilant. Or hey, there’s always the danger of getting and STI, even if you’re with lovely people, and thus yeah, be vigilant and practice safe sex.
On a related note, I wonder what the reaction would be if the 19-year-old was female and the male of the couple was much older than her instead of “slightly older than” her. Those who are not troubled by this story might be a little more troubled if the couple was much older than the 19 year old, or if the 19 year old was female. There’s no good reason to see that differently, if they’re all adults, but many people don’t see it that way. I’ve heard on GMP that an older man and younger woman in any context… Read more »
“I’m assuming that in this story the 19 year old is not related to the couple. I’m assuming neither one of the couple is the young man’s boss, teacher, pastor, etc. These seem like important boundaries to me that healthy panda sex ought to respect as well. (I know, I’m being prescriptive about sex. Too bad.)” Least you’re willing to own it. 🙂 I’m willing to admit that with regards to whether the couple was related, a teacher, pastor, some sort of authority figure…it would certainly be cause to pause and look more closely at the situation. I just don’t… Read more »
You’re right. If it was one of his teachers or his boss, it doesn’t mean there could never be consent, but it would definitely be complicated by the power dynamic. I would definitely agree about better to avoid it all around. I was just concerned that a total green light on “panda sex” could be used to exonerate people of other responsibilities or appropriate boundaries in the sexual realm. I was envisioning a professor saying to the administration “it’s okay that I fucked a student. I was initiating her into the world sexuality. Don’t worry, my wife was in the… Read more »
I’m honestly not troubled by either of those alternative postulates. If the man was 19 and had sex with a 45 year old, well I wouldn’t personally be into that, but I could see some people would and I don’t see a problem with someone doing that. Secondly as should be clear by some of my posts above even if the genders were reversed and this was a younger woman having sex with an older man, I don’t see that as being a problem either. Finally, I think it is unfortunate that to some degree the only pure sex is… Read more »
“.. express my pressing concern about whether the woman involved was able to give meaningful consent .. I am glad to say that I passed that test of parenting.” Your son was at risk, and your instinct was to accuse him, instead of protect him. He was in a clearly power inbalanced situation, where he was the only person with zero (or almost zero) ability to consent. And you were concerned about the woman? Your son was (i) with an experienced couple who (ii) had done this before, (iii) knew each other and could coordinate effort, (iv) were older and… Read more »
Wow.
It’s also possible he consented quite happily, had a wonderful time, and feels really good about his experience.
You had a terrible experience Anthony, one that I can’t comprehend and I hate that that happened to you. I don’t want that experience happening to anyone.
It doesn’t mean that everyone is going to have that experience.
If she and his father are in as close of touch with their son as indicated, then the son knows he has a safe place to divulge information.
Not all sexual experiences are heartless and cruel. Some are wonderful, consensual, and gifts.
The odds are, it was wonderful and consensual. Thank heavens. However, if this young man is ever assaulted by a woman, who will he talk to? 1) His mother’s first instinct was to presume that the woman was a possible victim (even though she had age, experience, home court, and a 2v1 power-advantage), and that her own son was a possible perpetrator (even though he had none of these power-advantages). 2) His mother may have treated him in this “presumed perpetrator” way before (knowingly or not). 3) If (big if) he is a victim, who will he talk to? Who… Read more »
I still hope he talks to his family. As indicated, his mother listened, took in new information and adapted to it as did the father. There currently is no indication that his family wouldn’t believe him.
If not his family, a lawyer and then counselor most certainly.
1. I find it interesting that at hearing about her son’s experience she went straight to wondering if the woman involved “really wanted to do it”. 2. I like how the fact that he enjoyed that experience (with another man and a woman) may run counter to the idea that the only three ways guys are intersted in are MFF. I have to admit if I were to have a chance at a similar encounter (and honestly its still possible for me) I would seriously consider it. 3. As for the people who are saying this is not a way… Read more »
What a beautiful story! And how sad (and telling) that we are so turned around and frightened about sex in this culture that people can’t see such simple beauty, honesty, and emotional health for what it is.
Agreed.