Why I Hate Porn: One Man’s View

Why does everybody in porn movies have that eyes-closed, SHOW ME YOUR WAR FACE expression? What? Is porn boot camp held on Paris Island?

I’m a guy who hates porn. And I don’t mean I hate the idea of porn or the political implications of porn. It’s not like I hate the concept of porn. Hell, I’m fine with that. I literally hate the actual experience of watching porn. I’ve tried. Believe me. I mean, as an American man, I’m obligated to try, right? But, it’s been unpleasant to say the least.

I know there’s a big socio-political brouhaha about porn. You can’t really raise the issue of filming people humping without getting into a discussion of the impact it has in and out of the bedroom. When I have some distance from the experience of actually watching porn, say, when I’m shaking hands with the minister after Sunday services, I can think objectively about it. I can ponder its implications from numberous intellectual angles.

But if I sit down and hit “play” on a porn movie, all my intellectual considerations go right out the window and horrified panic sets in.

I think we can all agree that, society wide, porn is encouraging a rather less lofty approach to the romantic arts. Recently, the Good Men Project posted an article titled Unsolicited Penis Pics.

Ozy Frantz notes, “Seriously. There is a (small, but evident) group of men who think the single most attractive thing they can do is send a woman they barely know a picture of their erect penis, to the point that nearly all my female and female-assigned friends who do online dating have received a dick pic.”

Me, I’m thinking these somewhat overzealous lads have been staring at a parade of extra close-up body parts for so long that they now consider emailing a jpeg of their dick to a girl as the modern day equivalent of a jaunty tip of the hat.

 ♦◊♦

And even though, thanks to the internet, porn has diversified across an infinite range of erotic interests, the plot structures of these videos remain pretty straight forward. Based, no doubt, on the age old formula that can be summed up as follows:

1) Pizza man comes to door.
2) Housewife invites him in.
3) They both raise their eyebrows.
4) Clothes off.
5) Pizza discarded.
6) Begin humping.

And its the “begin humping” part where I lurch forward, stabbing frantically at the off button.

Because here’s where the erect, swollen, wagging up and down, lookie at what I got here, erections enter the story and take over not only the plot, but the entire screen. The penis enters the mouth or the vagina and we get to see things up close and personal. At which point, it freaks me out. In part, because I feel like I’m WAY too close to some people I don’t know all that well. AND because I know what’s coming next. Good old part two. Just a sure as the sun comes up tomorrow some very sticky body fluids end up on some nice lady’s face. That freaks me the fuck out. And then comes that weird hyper fast humping that goes on for hours. That also freaks me the fuck out.

The simple fact is I really don’t want to watch unfamiliar erections lurching around the screen like a Godzilla movie for dicks. I don’t want to watch 20 minutes of fornication that mimics that frantic high speed horseback riding in a 1920’s silent western. And please. Why does everybody in porn movies have that eyes-closed, SHOW ME YOUR WAR FACE expression? What? Is porn boot camp held on Paris Island? And don’t even get me started on the hissing breathing thing.

It’s not the erections that bother me per se. I don’t mind an erection or two from a respectful distance. Like, how about far enough away to see the actual people attached to the erections? It’s the vantage point. It’s the grinding movement of frantic genitalia shot from six inches away and going on for HOURS.
And then there’s the final thing that hits me when I even IMAGINE watching your typical porn film. Immediately, I start conjuring up the smell. Yes, that’s right. The smell. Like, here I am SIX INCHES AWAY from this…activity. Did these people wash their asses today? Did they bathe? Have they worked out this week or is that sweat they’re dripping kind of bitter and sour? Do they have hangover breath? Did they do too much cocaine last night?

Yes, its true. I’m imagining porn stink. It’s the same smell I know is wafting about the creepy fluorescent lit x-rated video stores here in NYC. The places that have been continuously in operation since the coin operated video booth days, when guys would go in with a handful of quarters and come out with a wad of tissue paper in one hand. THAT porn stink.

Ew.

And once I get to the creepy porn stink moment, the entire humping, sticky faced, ass and scrotum parade, porn value proposition just collapses in on itself like a giant sweat and sperm soufflé.

But I know I don’t speak for most guys. The camera is six inches away from people’s genitalia because that’s what sells. Period. So, once again, we have the great unwashed masses to thank for yet another example of the loftier aspirations of the human spirit.

But not for me. I just can’t stand the stink.

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About Mark Greene

GMP Senior Editor Mark Greene writes and speaks on Men's Issues at the intersection of society, politics, relationships and parenting for the Good Men Project, the New York Times, The Shriver Report, Salon, HLN, The Huffington Post, and Mamamia. You can follow him on Twitter @megaSAHD and Google.
Click here to read more GMP articles by Mark Greene. Get Mark's fully illustrated children's book FLATMUNDER for iPad from iTunes about kid's fears and the power of play. For kids ages 4-8.

Comments

  1. People don’t get what they want, really. They get a grossly simplified, formulaic version of it that makes the marketing folks feel safe and the bean counters feel thrifty. After a while, people forget they ever wanted anything else. Life imitates art imitating life.

    I anticipate some heat coming down on you from guys telling you that you hate the essential masculine expression of sexuality because you don’t like seeing people with drill instructor faces banging like jack hammers.

  2. Ha I totally see your point. I assuming most men who do watch porn are as uncomfortable with close-ups and angles but eventually get use to it.

    I personally fast forward through those parts which means out of a twenty minute scene I literally maybe watch two mins. It is kind of strange I know. Interestingly I wrote about this earlier today from a different angle. A sorta guilty pleasure perspective: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hip-hop-porn-and-good-men/

    Thanks for sharing Mark.

    • I actually love the closeups, the angles, etc. I am utterly fascinated and very turned on by the vulva, the penis entering the vulva, or fingers, or the tongue/mouth on/over a penis or vulva. I like detail, HD quality views of the vulva in particular, it’s amazing, sexy, beautiful, they help me add to my own fantasy in my head.

      I think we all are individuals and like differing things.

    • Copyleft says:

      I’m not a fan of the extreme close-up camera shots either (what am I , a gynecologist?), but they seems endemic to most mainstream porn. I’d much rather look at the woman than the guy, too… but I guess I’m not in the majority.

      Well, there’s always plenty of alternatives to explore; the Internet is Full of Things.

  3. lilbuddha says:

    This is just one woman’s opinion (well actually, a lot of my female friends feel the same way) and I hope that rather than shoo shoo me as just some crazed , “ready to cut of the balls of all men”, feminist, that you will actually listen to me and actually try to feel what I feel. When i know a man watches porn, I immediately wonder if he would ever be able to perform. After all, watching porn in the seclusion and jacking off to it night after night has been shown to negatively affects a man’s ability to perform with a real human being. So I am going to pass you up and hope the next guy spends more time reading or running or something other than watching porn Meditation can do wonders for your sex life and that is something you do alone.

    I am also afraid of men who watch porn. Porn offers women up as three holes: a mouth, a vagina, and a rectum and nothing more. Oh wait, it also lies and says that we are always ready and willing to have any of these holes (and preferably all three at the same time) by as many penises and objects as possible. If you see me as a hole, what is to keep you from taking what you want from me. Honestly, I am afraid of men who watch porn. Scared shitless.

    Finally, if you watch porn and condone it, then I am assuming that you would have no problem if your 18 year old daughter performed gang bangs and bukkake on camera to pay the bills. And would ahve no problem with her catching STDS and doing drugs (if your a porn start, its agiven you have an addiction problem). And if you dont have a problem with her givng BJs on camera, then surely its ok if she does it in the back of a car for a couple bucks when there are no films to be made or she she needs a couple bucks for a rock or a shot. And if you dont think its ok for your daughter to do this, then why is it ok for someone else’s daughter to do it.

    So please, the next time you watch porn and fast forward to the parts you like, remember that the 18 year old chick with the pussy and ass getting stuffed by four cocks is someone’s daughter or mother. I want you to imagine its your daughter and see then if porn is so wonderful

    • Your entire argument is like saying if you like sex then you must enjoy gangbangs, etc. Do you like movies? Some movies are ultra violent, or promote hate, do you agree with them?

      Porn is a medium, and most people only like certain parts of that medium. Gangbangs etc don’t do anything for me. The majority of porn I watch is amateur and is the stuff real couples do, I am quite happy for my daughter, mother to have that kind of sex because (if I had a daughter) they probably already have and do have that kind of sex.

      I am afraid of people who think the way you do, they see the bad of a medium and assume everyone who looks at that medium is just watching the worst. It’s ignorant, insulting, and quite frankly stupid to assume the men and women who view porn are all watching the exact same stuff. Hell I could make a similar analogy to romance novels, those who read them with your logic would support rape because some have rape in them? How is that at all helpful?

      I think it would benefit you to get to know men and women who look at porn, you might realize they’re actually quite normal in most cases and just want to see sex. I myself just want to see sex in a happy and good environment, I like closeups because I think the human body and anatomy is extremely beautiful and sexy, I like the mechanics of sex, but I also like seeing the full body and not just the vulva 24/7. The stuff I watch is generally 2 people having sex, amateur made content by real couples, the focus of pleasure is for both of them.

      But what right do you have to judge those who do engage in gangbangs? Or assuming they all have drug addictions? There are probably more drug addictions in the trucking industry (stimulants). Porn has a LOT of normal humans without sti’s and without addictions, it’s a medium that anyone can contribute to. Anytime someone sext’s, they’re making porn, hell I’ve done it myself.

      • Porn is a genre, not a medium.

      • Danielle says:

        I think you missed the point of what lilbuddha was saying which she was trying to avoid by writing the first sentence. Yes of course porn has more than gangbanging but it does objectify and exploit women as nothing but a vessel. I once saw a report on 20/20 I think it was, that said 80% of porn stars were molested as children. If that’s not exploitation I don’t know what is.

        You may be ok with your 18 year old daughter having sex in the privacy of her room in the context of a loving relationship but would you be ok with her filming then distributing/posting it everywhere? If you are, then it follows that you’re ok with your friends seeing your daughter naked and having sex which I seriously doubt. You also would either not be concerned or lack the foresight to understand how such an indiscretion will negatively affect her career, future relationships, or how she will explain it to your grandchildren later. If this concerns you, think about the fact that the woman you are watching is someone’s daughter.

        FYI it has been shown that porn negatively affects relationships and a man’s desire for the woman he’s with. Also, I know I focused on women but I do think starring in porn negatively affects men as well but not to the same degree. Not judging people who watch it, just introducing food for thought.

        • If she wants to make porn, that’s her business. Lilbudha is advocating the same kind of moral paternalistic attitudes that cause many women a lot of sexual shaming where they don’t feel free to do what they want. I’d rather my daughter did porn than joined the military where she’d most likely face a much higher risk of injury/death.

          The difference here I think is that I actually respect porn stars, and the feeling I’m getting from some of the commenters here is that porn stars are dirty, degraded, that the very act itself is bad and I think it’s pathetic to conflate bad porn with good porn. What right do people have here to judge the porn stars on their career choices? What right do they have to assume ALL will do drugs n even have gangbangs? A LOT of women have their own business where they strip on cam for money, that’s porn, many only masturbate, so where does the OP’s analogy fit there?

          “You also would either not be concerned or lack the foresight to understand how such an indiscretion will negatively affect her career, future relationships, or how she will explain it to your grandchildren later. If this concerns you, think about the fact that the woman you are watching is someone’s daughter.”
          The problem is YOU. YOU are judging this career bad, YOU are contributing to the shame women feel about their sex lives, YOU are part of the reason why many women find it difficult to enjoy porn. YOU see it ALWAYS as negative, do you even realize there are people who have positive, healthy, productive lives in porn? Do you realize many happy loving couples make their own porn?

          I get this feeling that you think a person is a poor parent if they accept their daughter choosing porn, but what about the military? Is it acceptable for your daughter to join a career where there is a likelihood she will kill someone else? How about banking or insurance, the stock market, etc, there are people in these careers who profit off the poor so does that mean all of them are bad?

          What’s funny is that it’s mainly women who are pushing the shame n stigma of the women in porn here, the women are viewing these porn stars as helpless, who do degrading and disgusting acts, do the women here even respect the choices those porn stars made or do you just sit on top your mighty horse casting judgment upon these women, treating them all as helpless victims who are nothing but children that can’t choose the career for themselves. YOU give these women no agency, it’s a slap in the face of feminism for sure.

          I feel sorry for those in porn who have terrible lives, but I really feel sorry for those who judge ALL of them as being victims without the intelligence to choose for themselves what they want their career to be. I don’t judge porn stars, sex workers, etc like that. If they chose the career then I say good on them, if they didn’t then I say give the help they need and prosecute whoever forced them. But don’t you DARE act like these women are less than anyone else because of their career choice.

          • QuantumInc says:

            While a pair of internet commenters of course cannot hurt any sex workers (i.e. strippers, porn, prositution) these attitudes and assumptions can once they spread far enough. If a pornographic director mistreats a pornographic actress, it’s because he sees her as below a regular woman. Believing that they all have STI’s and all have drug addictions and all have horrible lives is a similar attitude. Whether you see them as pitiful victims or as themselves bad people, you’re still looking down on sex workers for the sole fact that they are sex workers. Of course as Archy noted this sex worker < regular woman is part of a larger social attitude about women and sex, namely that the former should limit the latter.

          • You obviously dont have a daughter. Lets talk when you have one ;)

            • Because parents of daughters would never support them in their career choice in the sex industry? I’d be more disturbed if they joined the military.

            • Well, you should discourage them from trying porn OR military, not tap on a shoulder and go: “yeah, go with porn then”

            • Why would I discourage her from porn? If that’s truly what she wants? I fully respect people in the adult entertainment industry, if that’s her choice then I just hope she has safety on her side and if anything I’d prefer her to do solo acts to rule out risks of STD’s etc. I would worry about the potential for abuse as well with various production companies, I’d hope she’d goto one of the female-led companies, or do the feminist porn which seems to be the safest route. Hopefully by the time I ever have a daughter who is 18 it’ll be at least 19 years away from right now, and the safeguards will be in place.

              With the military however I am more concerned should war ever break out or she ever seen combat, her risk I would guess is far higher in a military career but even then I have to respect her decision. I would hope she chooses a non-frontline job or at least one where she has some relative safety. I also worry about abuse in the military, there is a lot of rape n abuse going on that is being brought into the light recently for the Australian military which would worry me for a daughter or a son.

              Basically I’m not worried if she shows her body to make money, if it’s her choice. I am more concerned about other ignorant people and how they will treat her, or maybe her future career prospects which I would discuss with her before she did any job in adult entertainment. I’d try my best to help make sure she is safe, but I wouldn’t want to go too far and be the super-protective dad which pisses her off. I’ll still respect n love her no matter her career choice.

              People who do porn are still human, there’s nothing wrong with them, they aren’t some sub-par human.

            • In this case, I’ll be rude and say, I wish you none. But if you do, I wish you experience your friends coming to you and saying: “Man, your daughters ass is fuckable, good job” and see if you feel proud.

              And porn is not a career and will never be. You don’t work with your butt, boobs or dick, you were given brains, arms and legs to achieve things.
              Woman’s body was designed to give a new life, to give pleasure to a man she’s emotionally connected to and NOT to be fucked million times by someone she’s just got a money to earn with. Sex and love is something two people should share and cherish between themselves as the most beautiful thing, unfortunately porn makes it look cheap and easy, something you can get on every corner.

            • Nice bit of bigotry you have there. You probably don’t realize it but your comment is extremely shaming to men and women, and is slut-shaming to boot. A human can use whatever body part they want to earn, who are you to say otherwise?

          • Mystery says:

            You should watch the movie Life After Porn. You can find it on Netflix. It’s a documentary on ex-porn stars and how porn has affected their lives. And all of them do say they got into porn because they weren’t smart enough to choose any other career and half of them did talk about how they had been molested as children and how that gave them no feelings towards sex. It also talked about the drinking and drugs they would take before a scene to be able to get through it and how they were badly treated by the men making the videos.

      • Danielle says:

        Just wanted to add that I’ve read several romance novels and never encountered rape. Not once.

        • Didn’t really want to get in on this particular discussion but I do have to point out that from the 70s onward it’s a pretty common trope in historical romance novels although, obviously, not as present in categories like the sweet contemporary et al. Love’s Tender Fury, The Flame and the Flower, and the Wolf and the Dove, all considered classics of the Romance Genre, all have pretty graphic scenes of rape, and not only rape but of the hero raping the heroine in the early stages of the book. Even in books like Ashes in the Wind and Come Love a Stranger, where rape is not present, the first sexual scenes between the hero and the heroine can are very aggressive and and could be seen, in some lights, as quite coercive.

        • Lil bit says:

          Me either. but the person who said that romance has rape in it probably has never read the cover a one of these stories, nevermind the actual book/movie.

          • ht tps://www.google.com.au/search?q=rape+in+romance+novels
            Does the existence of a few bad romance novels mean romance novels are ALL bad? Because that is the logic being used here quite a bit by some of the women in particular regarding porn. They just don’t seem to understand that porn has variety in it and are acting like we’re all watching the same stuff. It’s as stupid as me assuming the women who read romance novels are reading ones full of rape, NOW do you understand the analogy?

            • I suggest the reading of Pamela Regis’ Natural History of the Romance novel for an academic treatment of fantasy and the use of force in the historical and regency romance novel for the curious. My first novel is in the revision stages, right now. Sigh. Publication is such a painfully slow process! Anyway, historical romance (and those containing force, etc) only represent a percentage of those written. There’s also the sweet contemporary, the mystery romance, the paranormal romance, the holiday collection, inspirational romance, the sky’s the limit–much like the almost infinite variety present in pornography, as Archy points out. There’s something for everyone out there, or almost everyone, at least.

    • That really made me think. Thanks for the brilliant insight :)

    • If I were you, lilbuddha, I would be more concerned about the men who do NOT watch porn. It is those men, who do not have an outlet for their sexual inclinations, that would be a threat to you. They would be more willing to live out their frustrated desires, on you.
      While I can not speak for every man, I think I speak for many when I say that porn is an escape, nothing more. We are not stupid. We understand that these women and men made their own choices, that they do not do these same acts at home. We understand it is about objectification. And that is the point.
      Through porn, we are able to release our frustrations without first navigating a myriad of extra baggage. There are no questions to ask, no emotions to go through, no seduction needed, no aprehension as to whether there is a future between us, or guilt that we may be taking advantage of someone. It is simply unattached, uncomplicated release. A release we do not have to share with anyone, and hence, is not filled with shame.
      Producers will always gravitate to what will make the most money. There is a reason porn has horrible plot lines and close angles. It is because the producers understand that the men who watch porn are not actually watching the porn, but are rather in their own heads, running through whatever fantasy they particularly enjoy, with the porno only as a visual ‘enhancement’ that helps keep our fantasies vivid.
      I do not know or have heard of any men who actually continue to watch the porno after they have ejaculated. They turn it off, grab a book, go walk the dog, watch tv, or simply go to sleep. They don’t fixate on what they saw. It is forgotton as soon as it has been turned off.
      I will agree on one point. And that is that porn HAS affected my performance. I last longer, nothing about a womans body grosses me out or makes me feel uncomfortable. I am always willing to take my time and try new things. I do not care as much about getting release as I do care about being in the moment. And the pleasure of my partner is just as important as my own pleasure. If I wanted quick release, “just a hole”, I would watch porn. This way real encounters become more about real emotional connections and not just about the cum shot.

      • “We understand that these women and men made their own choices, that they do not do these same acts at home. We understand it is about objectification. And that is the point.”

        This so much. Porn is the one place where it’s preferable for women to be objectified. Otherwise, it gets weird. As a woman, do I really want my man to see the woman in porn as a whole person? To ask questions about her personal life and to remember her name? Hell no. I want him to get off to her holes if I’m not available and then forget she exists (as long as she gets paid adequately for doing her job and isn’t exploited or forced into anything). Ideally, he’ll also be thinking about my holes, but obviously that’s not going to happen all the time. I think most men really do understand that porn isn’t real sex. To say that they don’t doesn’t give those men much credit. It’s just visual enhancement for when you want to get off and feel a little better. If you actually think that real sex is always like it is in porn, you have a lot to learn. For example, anal. I’ve met a few girls who do anal in porn. Even they still need a lot of prep work…It’s not always the ‘just stick it in’ that you see in the cuts in porn. Enema/laxative, lots of lube, not eating for several hours beforehand, and the need to stretch the hole out. There’s even a product that desensitizes the anus for women who are somewhat new to it or are facing a larger penis. And I’m pretty sure the vast majority of men understand that the moans in mainstream porn are exaggerated. Watching porn isn’t bad until it becomes bad. If he starts denying me sex in favor of porn, that’s when it becomes a problem and that’s when I’m gone. If he only wants do stuff because he saw it in porn, nuh-uh. If he tries to posture and re-enact porn scenes instead of enjoying himself and listening to what I want, he’s just a bad lover. If he gets too into just one porn star instead of watching it for the variety of fantasies and bodies…nope. If he’s only into stepfather porn or watches porn around children…he’s out. It’s not that you DO use porn, it’s HOW you use it.

        • I don’t want my guy to see any woman as a set of “holes”. I don’t want him to seperate women he feels are worthy of his “objectifications” and women he feels are worthy of his “respect”. I severely question men that can easily seperate women into such groups ultimately based on what needs he gets taken care of from each group. So yes, I do want her to see every woman as a whole person. Not just a means to his end when he needs to jerk off.

          • Mystery says:

            Exactly. Why do men have to make everything about there sexual needs? It’s like your pretty much saying when you have an urge you have to fill it and if porn wasn’t available then who knows what you would be doing, right? What about self control? And will power? Do you not have the personal strength to wait until your lady is available? Your just making the saying “all men are dogs” seem just about right! Were not cavemen anymore! Maybe learn some self control and show your women some respect by only needing her to fulfill all your sexual needs!

    • You may be interested to know that a recent Canadian study that wanted to compare men who watch porn, to men who do not watch porn, was unable to find subjects who didn’t watch any porn: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html

      Prof Lajeunesse said pornography did not have a negative effect on men’s sexuality.
      “Not one subject had a pathological sexuality,” he said. “In fact, all of their sexual practices were quite conventional.
      “Pornography hasn’t changed their perception of women or their relationship, which they all want to be as harmonious and fulfilling as possible,” he added.

      • I’m glad someone linked to this article. I would find it hard to believe a man that said he didn’t watch porn. I only hope that the man I’m with doesn’t have any kinks he’d like to act out that don’t align with what I’m willing to do with my body. I think so long as the man in question is comfortable talking about his porn use and frequency I don’t have an issue. (Also just because a guy is into a particular type of porn doesn’t mean he needs to imitate the type of porn he watches) I’ve had to have a discussion with my partner about how the frequency of his porn use was affecting our sex life. He toned it down and there hasn’t been a problem since. I feel bad so many women are scared of men watching porn which is ridiculous. Men are going to watch porn, women are going to watch porn.

      • F., I have seen that “study” before and part of the information that is being left out is that men from that college where the only ones recruited and they couldn’t find young men from that college that didn’t look at porn. It’s not like they did a global search of all men of varying ages.

        I do think porn has influenced male sexuality and perceptoins of women.

    • Wow, what a generalized load of crap

    • The Peanut Gallery says:

      If someone made the same sort of sweeping generalizations about most other groups of people, they’d get shouted down here. But men who like porn and women who perform in it… they’re always fair game?

    • Petethesheep says:

      Lilbuddha, I agree with you on almost every point although your writing is quite extreme (which i appreciate) so of course you are going to get knocked down by many! I would say my biggest problem with porn is that women are supposed to just accept that all men watch it, as if it’s totally normal to watch a women get doofed up her bleached bum by three different men. I’ve been with men who have made me feel bad, or rather, tried to make me feel bad for not being on board with them watching porn. Quoi? I can accept a bit of porn watching (although I won’t like it until producers care about women (the ones on screen and the ones watching) however I would never stay with someone who watched porn more than every now and then. I mean for real, don’t you have something better to do? Like engage with real people you have a shot with? I would seriously wonder what was wrong with a man if he had to watch it every day or even a few times a week. And like you, I would wonder if he has some performance issues, preferring to go it alone. I appreciate that there are times when porn might come in handy, say you’ve been single for awhile but that still wouldn’t mean I’d understand excessive use of it. It’s just weird under any circumstance and suggests some mental health issues, depression, etc.
      I find it incredibly ironic that another thread is talking about the movie Magic Mike and not only did the OP question the movie (a movie she hasn’t seen) for ‘objectifying’ men but some others have agreed. I mean for real, a movie with a bit of eye candy for women (a massive rarity) is offending people and women are just supposed to accept porn (where women are debased much more than men ever are) as part of life. Ridiculous.

      • “I would say my biggest problem with porn is that women are supposed to just accept that all men watch it, as if it’s totally normal to watch a women get doofed up her bleached bum by three different men.”
        Who says that is what most men are watching? You seem to be taking the worst n projecting it on porn viewers as if they all watch the same shit. Viewing porn is quite normal for many people, just as watching tv, movies, etc are. The thing to remember though is that not all of us are watching gang bangs, etc.

    • Noah Brand says:

      While you’re not wrong, you’re talking about a very small fraction of the porn that’s out there. Consider some of the stuff I talk about here: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-i-love-weird-porn/

    • Random_Stranger says:

      Woah…that was really graphic and awfully technical. lilbuddha, I’m thinking you have greater familiarity with porn than you let on -is your protest a form of self-flagellation for perceived personal sins?

      Seriously, what you’re doing is shaming and othering men. I assure you, most men in your life have some regular experience with porn and are perfectly normal. And if you’ve found yourself to be an occasional consumer, then congratulations, you have a pulse.

      • @ Random … ” I assure you, most men in your life have some regular experience with porn and are perfectly normal.”

        Most men? Wow, amazing how people have no problem judging others normality as being wrong. No shaming, just that in come groups, it’s not acceptable and people outside those groups have no right telling them they are wrong.

        • Confused says:

          Sounded to me like he was stating that most men are normal. “Most” meaning a large number of them and “normal” meaning… kind of like the other ones. Nothing wrong seemed to be implied.

          So, I’d be shocked if “most” men don’t watch porn. Are they normal? By definition.

          But maybe I’m completely misreading what you’re trying to say.

    • The Blurpo says:

      Frankly, if a man or woman (yes lot of women watch porn to) watch porn is none of your business, and its none of your business how a man perform in bed. No disrespect, just stating a fact, not trying to be rude.

      And I never met in my entire life a woman who disliked sex or porn. And about porn it self there are tons of genre and subgenre; so you cant reduce it to a bukkake fest or a gang bang party. And somebody said the word rape. I didnt even know there was a genre called rape porn. Anyways its irrilevant, because its just a fantasy. And its no more degranding than porn movies scream queens.

      And I admit, I have a hard time understanding people who are offended by porn, dont watch it then. Easy solution. Not everybody feels degraded or offended, then why some people wants to be the moral patron of the world? well thise kind of people im scared of. In history usually the worst psychos were always the super moral guys (with the exception of caligula ;-) ) popes, inquisitors, politicans, kings, quens, emperors, empresses, dictators ect. Never the common porn watching guy. And 90% of porn is mainstream (het porn, interracial, lesbian porn, gay porn ect).

      Its a fantasy movie about people f*cking no more no less (I always wondered about the folks who try to put meaning behind something meaningless like porn) about addiction, well all kind of addiction is bad, from drugs, to alckohol to porn to TV to internet addiction ect. All addiction are damaging and unhealthy. Porn is no exception. But I find the hostility of some women and men to be baffling.

      • “I didnt even know there was a genre called rape porn. Anyways its irrilevant, because its just a fantasy. And its no more degranding than porn movies scream queens.”

        Just want to point out that there is some porn made where the point is that not everyone is consenting (or too young to consent). Mind, in the U.S. and most western countries it’s totally illegal. (I’m not sure about the laws outside of “the west,” as it were). It does exist, however, and it’s horrible.

        That being said, I agree that if everyone who is making the porn is consenting, then no one should be judgemental about it.

        • The Blurpo says:

          are you talking about snuff porn and pedo?
          Snuff is fake, as I can read FBI and other law enforcement organizations around the world (including the good old KGB) have investigated this genre extensively without finding any evidence that is real. Pedo on the other hand is real and scary. And every year people get arrested for it.

    • John Anderson says:

      @ lilbuddha

      “Finally, if you watch porn and condone it, then I am assuming that you would have no problem if your 18 year old daughter performed gang bangs and bukkake on camera to pay the bills.”

      I understand what you’re saying, but there are jobs that I wouldn’t want my daughter doing, like soldier, but I have deep respect for those who do. I tend to view porn (and even prostitution) in terms of bodily autonomy. I don’t see how the fact that money changing hands to secure consent changes things. I am sensitive to the argument that a certain level of economic coercion can negate consent, but I don’t know what that level is or how we can differentiate whether in any single instance such coercion existed.

      Some people would argue that we should err on the side of not exploiting people. Others would argue that we should assume that reasoned consent was established otherwise we deprive an individual of the means to earn a livelihood. One question I have is even in cases where reasoned consent can’t be established because of extreme economic coercion, how would depriving them of their only remaining alternative help them?

  4. I can only speak for myself lilbuddha but I think there’s a difference between endorsing something and accepting something.

    I wouldn’t want my daughter to be porn star but neither my son. But I also wouldn’t want them to be in the military or to work as correction officers or to work for companies that build weapons yet if that is the choice they make then I will accept it and still love them.

    Everyone on this planet is someone’s daughter and son but we still let our fellow human beings live in poverty and die premature deaths for lack of access to basic resources. Empathy is needed in a myriad of context and circumstances. I believe the world would be a better place if we were less judgmental and a bit more understanding.

    We don’t have to agree but we can listen and discuss our differences. Regarding your fear of men who watch porn I don’t know what to say. I think there are far more worse things to afraid of that a man (or woman) does then watching pornography but your feelings are valid.

    Thank you for your comment.

  5. I’m confused, do you not choose what porn you’re watching? Do you just pick up a disc labeled “porn” and turn it on? If you don’t like the type of porn you are viewing…try watching a different kind. It’s not that hard (that’s what he said!); there’s plenty of free stuff in many categories available.

    Saying there’s a “typical” type of porn video seems to me like saying there’s a “typical” type of song. It just doesn’t make sense when you have so many options at your fingertips.

    • Amen to that. What I’m seeing here especially with the ladies are presumptions of what “porn” is and acting as if pretty much all guys are watching gang bangs etc. They really do appear to be clueless if they think most men are watching the most degrading stuff they can find, it’s actually quite misandric. But hey, it’s totally acceptable to generalize negatively about men when the topic is porn. 5 minutes of research would show people there is so much variety in porn that every kink is probably catered for, I think they’re just focusing on the worst and assuming the entire medium is full of it.

    • John Anderson says:

      I was thinking the same thing. If he doesn’t want to see penises, try lesbian porn.

  6. What is your opinion of films like “In the Realm of the Senses”, “Cafe Flesh”, or “Last Tango in Paris”?

    • I haven’t seen the first two. The last one I watch because it appeared on ShowCase which I always used to watch late at night when I was a teenager since is showed nudity. I thought Maria Schneider had huge breasts and I enjoyed seeing her naked. I never really found the film erotic though. Most of the scenes left me cold. I don’t like anal, pain or force in sex. I like smiles, happiness, joy etc.

  7. I hear you dude. The closeups, the fake moaning, the obviousness that 95% of hetero porn is produced entirely for what men are supposed to want to see… yikes. Theoretically it should be fun to watch other people fuck, but in practice, I usually end up cringing and crossing my legs.

    My personal strategy has been to search for still photos I like. There’s much greater diversity there. And as a heterosexual woman, I have to say, it’s a good thing there are pictures of men made for a male consumer – the stuff for women is way too gauzy and vague.

    • Specialk says:

      Yep, I can totally get behind taking a look at some ‘inspiring’ (sexy inspiring) stills but struggle with porn of any description. I just get too distracted by all the fake boobs, awful moans, ridiculous chatter. In any case, my imagination is so much better, and when I’m fantasizing I want it to be about me, what my ‘dream’ guy or girl would do to and with me, not some crazy eyed, boobed and botoxed lass.

    • John Anderson says:

      Argh, next thing you’ll be telling me professional wrestling is fake.

      (fingers in ears) la la la la, I can’t hear you.

      :)

  8. Agree with your analysis, lilbuddha. Like you, my female friends and I have discussed mainstream porn and believe as you do with one exception: We are repulsed by men who are addicted to porn. I did briefly date a guy addicted to porn (although he thought he wasn’t) and I tried to see him as separate from it, but ultimately, it did affect our relationship. He was an okay/decent guy in our day to day lives. But knowing he was addicted to and enjoyed/ condoned the objectification of women turned the relationship sour for me.

    • I would humbly suggest that the “objectification” of our lovers is integral to a healthy sexual relationship. It is only when objectification occurs in the absence of all other forms of connection that it can be a challenge.

      • I’d call it embodiment, not objectification.

        Objectification is seeing and feeling a human as a nonhuman – a tool/hole, a thing done to, a thing beneath you. If consensual, cool, but in a healthy relationship, it’s finally a pose.

        Embodiment is seeing and feeling someone (or yourself) as a fully physical human. I think it helps if you’re into the whole body, including things like hair, eyes, voice, scent, motion. That for me is peak arousal.

        Finally, guys turn off porn because you can’t lie holding a video after you’re done.

        • I agree. The key here is that such moments MUST be consensual or they can be damaging. If my wife were to say to me, “HUSBAND, I’m in the mood for a cowboy tonight” and then hand me a cowboy hat and a bandana, I would consider that objectifying me. It would be, as you say, striking a pose. And I would be happy to provide her that relational “pose candy” because I know that our relationship doesn’t begin and end with that. The moment of objectification can be good or bad depending on the CONTEXT of the relationship in which it occurs and the degree to which those being objectified are happy to collaborate in the moment.
          I realize the word objectifying is a bad word in many circles. But I don’t view it as such. To me it is a neural term or idea. It can be a bad thing or a good thing depending on context.

          • I’m stating how I feet about male porn addiction. I noticed someone posted a link here about a study saying porn doesn’t affect a male’s attitude toward women. What about how it affects how women perceive men? For me, just knowing that a guy needs to constantly watch someone ejaculate in a woman’s face and see women in degrading positions is a huge turn-off for me. I’m not speaking about wearing costumes and acting out consensual fantasies for each other. That’s fine, but if a guy is also heavily addicted to porn, it equates the debasement of women in my mind, and so it makes me repulsed by him.

            • “I noticed someone posted a link here about a study saying porn doesn’t affect a male’s attitude toward women.”
              “For me, just knowing that a guy needs to constantly watch someone ejaculate in a woman’s face and see women in degrading positions is a huge turn-off for me.”
              Then maybe you should be worried about your negative view of men that look at porn. Why are you assuming they’re ALL looking at facials in porn, or degrading positions? Can you understand that you’re judging porn from a very negative point of view of how degrading it is, but you can’t actually be certain of the TYPE of porn he is watching? The last 10-20 porn videos I saw had no facials, nor degrading positions.

              I realize there is quite a lot of bad porn out there, but there is also a lot of good. So if women are judging men for looking at porn by guessing the kind of porn they look at then the problem is with the women quite frankly. Women like that are judging men without knowing them, it’d be as stupid as men judging women who read romance novels as gold diggers because some involve princes with lots of money.

              Focus less on the bad type of porn and realize that porn is so varied that it’s impossible to generalize what the viewers like apart from seeing nudity usually. There is a lot of porn that doesn’t debase women, both men and women are on equal footing in it, get equal pleasure, everyone’s happy. Save the disgust until you find out the exact type of porn he views at least, hate the guy you know to be treating women like shit, not the ones you’re guessing simply because they look at porn. Would it be fair if I though you treated men like shit because you looked at romance novels, or romance movies based on the fact some have bad stereotypes? Do you think the millions of women who look at porn are getting off over debasing themselves?

            • What’s the “bad type of porn”? Based on what people are saying, it sounds like gangbangs and ejaculation and anything but a touching scene between two real-life lovers. But bad for whom?

              Someone commented above that she didn’t want to be treated like a hole. Or like three holes. Or something like that. I don’t mean to misquote her. What would happen if the sexes were reversed? I wouldn’t mind being treated like a cock. By a group of women. Wherever their secretions end up on me is fine with me. And I’d do that for free. Assuming I find them attractive, they have no STDs, I can call a stop to things if I feel like it. If I was being paid, maybe I’d budge a bit on attraction.

              So, if actors/actresses are being raped in these porn movies, if they don’t do any STD screening, maybe there’s some cause for real outrage. If not, maybe it’s all just a matter of personal taste.

            • Being in porn is not being raped, nor is it always about personal taste. It’s work. It might not be what you’d do in your own bedroom with your boyfriend/husband, but it’s a job like any other. You agree to what you’re comfortable with and you get paid. Sure, a lot of the time you’re not necessarily going to *enjoy* it, but it’s your job to act like you do for the length of the shoot and with your fans if you want to build a base. Some days you might get lucky and shoot a scene with someone you’re genuinely attracted to or get the type of sex you genuinely want…that makes it easier to play it up and, in some cases, put out a better product. Some days you’ll want to strangle your co-workers or feel used, uncomfortable, tired, and annoyed. Other days you’ll feel happy, satisfied, and accomplished. Just like with any other job. And yes, there are STD screenings. The organization that handled them was the one that led to the leak of a huge amount of porn stars’ real names and personal information, including home addresses and names of family members.

            • wow you sure do love your porn don’t you Archy?

            • I like it, I don’t LOVE it. Is that a problem? I also like my video games, my hobbies, etc.

            • I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that “addiction” to anything is not ideal. But how did we go straight to porn addiction? Porn is, in my estimation, not all that interesting, much less addictive.

            • Yes, agree that any addiction is not ideal and yes, I appreciate men who do not find porn interesting. I respectfully disagree about it being addictive. I can’t state for sure when someone’s interest in it crosses the line into addiction: once a week? once a day? multiple times during the day? Perhaps I should have substituted the word fascinated instead of addicted. (The person I dated viewed it on average more than a couple of times a week.) Someone stated that watching porn is normal, like watching t.v. That is what sickens me and probably what lilbuddha meant when she said it frightened her: that degrading women and viewing them as 3 holes and enjoying cum on their face is “normal”.

            • Yes, of course. I went back and viewed my previous comment. What I was saying is that my article was not about addiction. And that porn was not all that interesting to me. But it sounded like I was saying I doubted porn can be addictive. I don’t doubt it a bit. I’m sure it can. So, sorry about the miscommunication.

              I’m fairly confident that human beings can become addicted to just about anything under the sun.

            • Mark, I like your style of writing and the article was really funny. Quite a few great lines, Godzilla being one of them…;)
              I posted to show support for lilbuddha since what she said was spot on for me, and she received a mild lambasting for it. What I was saying to the men here that rationalize their need for porn is that, sure, that’s your right to watch it, but it comes with consequences you may not have realized: revulsion aimed at you for enjoying the degradation of women.

            • Thanks, Lorel.
              I’m glad you saw the humor in it. Sometimes I despair that I’m writing humor and people are seeing only launching points for debates. Creating discussion is definitely my goal, but I also am hoping people will enjoy the humor. We need to laugh at all the seriousness of it sometimes.

            • poester99 says:

              Even though I don’t get it, and don’t really enjoy watching it a woman I that I have been having a friendly chat with, but with whom I’m not really attracted to (it’s mutual), said she very much likes “facials”.
              To imply she is not “normal” would unfairly and uselessly judgmental. I’m not a theocratic puritan, and don’t ever want to go back to that.

            • I agree completely.

            • Copyleft says:

              You need to understand the terminology as used by anti-porn crusaders: “Addicted” means “anyone who looks at porn, ever, under any circumstances.” By definition, all men are presumed addicted to porn unless they loudly condemn it in the presence of anti-porn activists… and really SELL that condemnation.

          • GirlGlad4TheGMP says:

            I agree wholeheartedly, it’s a word, and not necessarily a bad one. Like the word manipulate.
            And we all objectify at some point or another. Sex isn’t always about the spiritual connection of two souls, sometimes it’s just about getting off or helping someone you (may) care about get off. Sometimes it’s about letting our minds run wild on the things about our desired gender that turn us on. I’m sure he isn’t always making love to me as a person, sometimes he’s just enjoying my body, the arch in my back when I react to him, whatever. Just like I’m not always enjoying him as the person so much as the combination of muscles, smells, reactions that are driving me wild.
            We all objectify. The popularity of movies like Showgirls and Magic Mike are a credit to that, and as long as we hold to the idea that people are a combination of mind/body/soul to be taken in varying degrees, we should be fine.

        • Why do we have to lie holding a body after sex? For about an hour after sex I dislike being touched at all and usually have to get up and go do something else.

          • This is why I believe so whole-heatedly in pre-marital sex to test sexual compatibility. Most of the men I’ve had sex with have been HUGE cuddlers, most even more than I am. I don’t know if it’s learned or innate, but at this point, I would need a man who’s able to do it. I don’t need to cuddle every time, especially if I have something to do, but I need a man to be capable of it. Also, I LIKE the smells of sex. A lot. I had no idea that people might not. Smells are extremely important to me in sex. I’m sorry if this sounds vulgar, but the smell of the right man’s balls, even after a day of not showering, actually really turns me on. The wrong man’s turn me off.

            • John Anderson says:

              I cuddled mostly because I was told that it was what women wanted. I didn’t see a reason to completely disregard her feelings just because I already got what I wanted. That comes pretty damn close to using someone and people need to consider the feelings of others. Now that I’m older, it makes a lot more sense. After expending that much energy, I’m going to rest for a little while anyway and holding a naked woman is not a bad way to occupy my time. You also never know when you’ll go back for seconds.

              Because I’ve got issues with women on top, I don’t know if women ever try going for seconds. If she can’t crawl on top, it probably makes it hard for her to initiate. Do women ever want to do it twice in one night? I mean outside of nymphomaniacs. I used to think it would be cool to have a nymphomaniac girlfriend, then I heard the stories .

            • Not sure if you mean it this way but touch and connection happens during sex, maybe he get’s his need of touch mostly from that?

            • If you can’t handle cuddling, that is not a gendered thing. That’s just an individual issue. And fully understandable, too. If you didn’t get a lot of contact growing up, you may have a limited capacity to handle it now, with the sex drive being the only thing powerful enough to drive you over the contact threshold. And once you experience something that intense, your capacity for contact may be used up for a little while.

            • I’m not sure about that considering the way men and women are raised when it comes to close contact that seems intimate, much less close contact that is intimate.

          • I agree with Aya, I need a man who is cuddly. My current bf loves to cuddle after sex and it is wonderful. When a guy immediately gets up and leaves to play video games or watch tv, I feel rejected. It’s like, he got what he needed and now he can’t stand to be near me. I don’t need to be held for a long time or every time, but at least a few minutes is really nice.

            • To Aya and Sarah. I looked up the possible reasons some people get up after sex. I believe it has to do with oxytocin/cuddle hormone and it’s effects for men. For me directly after orgasm I sometimes feel SUPER sensitive to touch and this agitates me, I also get very restless and other feelings that make me feel like I HAVE TO get up and do something. It’s not that I reject her, but it’s just an incredibly uncomfortable feeling that occurs and I just can’t stand being touched or to remain still. After 10 or 15 minutes it usually goes away though.

              “It’s like, he got what he needed and now he can’t stand to be near me.”
              My take on the situation is that it’s not that he can’t stand to be near YOU in particular, it’s everyone. Ever been really tired and hate being touched? That is a similar feeling, a touch feels like a shock through the system, I think it’s a feeling of OVERstimulation, a bit similar to how if someone touchs the head of my penis after I have orgasmed it’s super sensitive and I can’t handle it, but not a sexually stimulated type of touch for the rest of my body. There’s also this urge, a major urge sometimes to get up and do something else for a while, I guess to wear off one of the feelings or hormones.

              I’ll admit it feels weird and probably is, but it is what it is. After that hypersensitivity period is over then I’m happy to be touched again and probably quite cuddly.

              I also wonder why you are viewing it as “he got what he needed”, do you not benefit at all through sex? It’s implying you are feeling like you are GIVING to him, and not SHARING. Maybe this is something that you could remind yourself of, that he feels like he already has shared with you through a great experience and for him the limit may be as soon as he orgasms. If you want to cuddle after and he doesn’t then he may not be the person for you, I know I’d feel pissed off if I was forced to cuddle after sex during a hypersensitive period. I don’t think they happen always but maybe it’d be beneficial to try a different way of cuddling, some parts of the body may not be as bad.

              For me it was my arms and feeling “trapped”, when I got up after sex she held on which was a major major problem for me because if I have to leave, I NEED to leave. I wanted to get a drink and she was holding on to my hand not letting go, it was clingy as hell and that was one of the major reasons it never worked out between us. I’m not a teddybear, I have desires and needs such as thirst n hunger after sex. I did stay n cuddle with her once afterwards but I felt very trapped and uncomfy, so whilst she may feel rejected if I leave, I feel trapped if I stay. Who’s desires get to overrule the other? I haven’t had too many sexual experiences to say for certain if it’s a very regular thing though, it could be a one off here n there sort of behaviour.

              Reason I’m saying this isn’t to dismiss your experience or anything, just wanted to let you know that it’s quite possible he feels that similar hypersensitivity and that is causing an issue. I’ve also heard a theory of it being a control thing, after orgasm he may feel very vulnerable and needs to do an activity to regain self-control but I’d need to research more on that.

              That said I’d love to cuddle after sex for a while, I like the idea of it, but from what I have experienced the orgasm rocks me around a bit and there is a period of time I need to adjust. I’m very aware of how it may make her feel rejected, I just hope they will believe me when I say my skin feels like any touch instantly causes aggravation and I have no control over it. That icky feeling you feel when you’re touched and you want to be left alone, where you automatically pull your shoulder back/jerk back away from the person and tense up when touched, that’s the feeling. But inside my mind I am at peace, harmony, everything feels so lovely n dreamy, I feel a connection to her and so happy to be with her but there still remains that annoying skin thing. But wait 5-15 minutes and that skin goes back to normal, but I still feel dreamy and can cuddle.

              Everyone reacts in their own way after sex I am guessing, if he goes to watch TV I wouldn’t take it as a sign he rejects you, he may just feel that annoying feeling of wanting to do something else. I’ll say this next bit which may sound odd but after orgasm during that hate to be touched period, I can also feel 100% turned off, I wouldn’t want sex again during that period even if I could, I just want to get away for a bit. The desire for intimacy can sometimes drop to zero, attraction to zero, it’s a strange feeling going from totally 100% turned on to 100% turned off and needing a break to regain your bearings. 5-10 minutes later that feeling subsides, I am guessing it’s one or more of the hormones interacting which causes it, and those feelings reset back to normal.

              With a quick google around it seems evident that it affects quite a few men feel these post coital blues or restlessness. Seems to be a range of hormones, prolactin, oxytocin, dopamine that can mess us around a bit. If anyone knows a better reason I’d love to hear it, it only lasts a few minutes for me but I have a feeling that with women in particular those few minutes are the same time period as their biggest craving to cuddle?

            • I can totally understand from what you describe that you would not want to be touched in that moment. That’s a tough situation since, yes, I think many women often feel very cuddly after sex, maybe from a rush of oxytocin.

              I think it is one of those areas where 2 people have to compromise or they are probably not sexually compatible in the long run. The emotional part of sex is important to me and if a man can share that, with or without cuddling, I’d be ok.

            • Thanks, it’s nice to know that it’s the emotional part that is important to share, not just the cuddling. I guess you could take it as a sign that the overload is the emotional reaction that has reached a climax, something good has been shared to it’s very limit and needs a cooldown period. I guess much of it has to do with how he treats you at other times as well? If you feel ignored a lot, is that compounded if he leaves after sex? vs say someone who really makes you feel appreciated n loved but is in overload, but can cuddle later on?

              It always made me worry because I don’t any partner of mine to feel like I’m closing off any connection, the act of getting up to do something else can look like I am not interested when simply I’ve just hit the 100% mark and need time to reset the system. I’ll try to explain it to my future partners though, I’d love to stay n cuddle but that feeling is so damn annoying I just NEED to get away for a bit, but rest assured I’d be back! I think it might be important for them to know that my emotional bonding happens in the leadup and during the act, but once that peak hit’s it takes a massive dive off the cliff and I get into the overload period where I NEED to be untouched, it looks selfish as hell I’m guessing but my love n intimacy is just on pause whilst the body recovers.

              It could just be I am not use to it all as I don’t get touched much or have regular sex, hugged less than once a year on average, but from what you described I think it’s possible some men get the urge to leave and do something else. From my googling around it seems the common reactions are:Falling asleep (apparently due to many relaxing hormones and energy used, orgasms are one way I reduce my anxiety disorder when I feel too nervous so I can see how that works). Another is wanting to cuddle, and the last seems to be wanting to get up, do something else, not be touched for a bit (which I tend to be in most of the time). Occasionally though I will reach a euphoria state and just be super duper happy, no care in the world, I could be cuddled in that period fine.

              Do the guys that want to leave usually do it EVERY time? or does it vary?

            • I agree that it’s not a gendered thing, necessarily. Personally, I’m used to men who are very touchy. Not even in a sexual situation. They’ll randomly grab my ass, put their arm around me as we’re walking and make out with me, tickle me, stroke my body, snuggle up to me and bring me closer literally in their SLEEP. There’s nothing WRONG with not being touchy, at all. It’s a perfectly great way to be, it’s just not what I’ve gotten personally gotten used to and would take some adjustment and compromise, as is the case with a lot of people I know. You’d just have to understand and not get completely weirded out that I’m used to collapsing on a man’s shoulder after sex (and usually he brings me in closer), randomly humping my man’s leg, groping parts of him and making out at the drop of a hat. I certainly don’t feel used after sex if there isn’t any cuddling. In some situations, it’s NOT appropriate to cuddle and I wouldn’t want to–after a quickie in in the car, when we need to be somewhere, when it’s too hot. It’s just that I’m at this point, what I know well is men who are big cuddlers and touchers. Not only have they been ok with it, but they’ve INITIATED it. It throws me off a little when a man is weird about too much touch, but I do try to understand and feel out why.

            • Funnily enough I would probably be quite touchy at other times, give massages, hold her waist/etc when we’re out, I don’t mind her in front of me leaning back into me if we’re standing somewhere at an event. Just after sex is usually one time I reach the limit, or if I am super busy. I get into super busy mode and dislike being interupted, if I’m working on a car or fixing something I like to try do it all in one hit. I can cuddle on a couch with a movie fine, just the oversensitive period or if I am super tired AND irritated.

              I think it will all settle more once I have more physical contact, I haven’t had much so it’s still an awkward feeling, for instance I never know when I should hug someone first. I guess that lack of touch during my teenage years, not having a family that hugs often really screwed me up! I am going to try ensure when I have kids that I will regularly give them hugs etc, I know the damage of lacking touch and don’t want them to experience that.

    • Define addicted? Do you read women’s magazines by chance? I find them to be extremely objectifying of women.

    • John Anderson says:

      @ Lorel

      Was it just the frequency of the porn use that bothered you? Based on your comment:

      “He was an okay/decent guy in our day to day lives”

      It didn’t appear that his porn use manifested itself in your relationship. Did you just assume that it did or would and that turned you off? I was hoping that you could clarify.

  9. I suppose one thing to keep in mind is that human beings have always created and looked at visual images to express and experience what is most important, necessary, scary, and exciting in our lives.

    For tens of thousands of years, our ancestors created cave art that almost exclusively depicted animals and female bodies. They painted the animals they hunted for food, the animals that hunted them (like lions), and the women’s bodies that they needed for sex and children. Of course it is impossible to know exactly why they painted, but we can imagine they had feelings similar to ours. They had an urge to visually depict the things they needed the most to survive, and the things that threatened their survival. Maybe there was a religious aspect to their art, maybe they thought of it as a way to capture the spirits or energy of these powerful other entities, or maybe they just enjoyed painting the ideas in their heads.

    Personally I’m not fond of porn per se, but I think it does represent a deep urge in the human psyche to use images to try to exert magical power, to express longing and desire, to worship things that are powerful and important to our survival, and to enjoy the things in life that give us joy. Of course there are horrible aspects to porn and the porn industry, but the urge itself is not something inherently bad. I can say that even though personally I don’t like porn and I find much of it disturbing. But I also don’t understand why people watch horror movies or the Kardashians…

  10. FWIW, I have what I call a vanilla kink. I love still pictures of women who are totally naked – not so much as a shoe or a pulled down halter top – and enjoying their own bodies without sex toys. They don’t have to be fit or even terribly attractive – I just need them real.

  11. poester99 says:

    Maybe you just haven’t found the right porn for you?

  12. If you peel back the male orientated porn onion a bit – note that there exists a rather odd narrative, brought to us via pretty bad acting, that portrays women enjoying, seeking, wanting raw sex. Even in scenes where the act may come across as degrading or domineering, it is still portrayed as something desirable (exceptions noted as it’s a large and varied genre).

    Talk about reaching for the starts and landing in Buffalo!!

  13. Heh. Love the smell argument, Mark. Good one.

  14. You have to wonder how vigorous and open-minded the defense of porn would be if porn consisted mostly of male-on-male anal and oral sodomy.

    Since it isn’t—yet—it seems spurious to defend our (male) advantages in a pose of speaking for freedom of choice.

    • Copyleft says:

      You’re right. After all, I’m straight so I obviously couldn’t be supportive of gay rights or gay marriage. Self-interest is the only reason anyone defends anything.

    • If porn were mostly male/male, presumably that would reflect a society where male/male was the common denominator of sex fantasy, and we would be defending it from that point of view.

  15. I’m noticing that (and not just here but in many other places as well) that when someone makes their statement about how bad they think porn is and how they will have nothing to do with it or how no one should have anything to do with it, they immediately reach for what is considered the absolute worst of porn under the presumption that that small subset of porn represents all porn and that the folks that watch that subset of porn (themselves a subset of porn watchers) represents all porn users.

    Why is that?

    • You mean bad as in morally, or bad as in production values?

      • Morality.

        As in what types of porn. Maybe I should have said, …they immediately reach for what is considered the absolute worst of porn content under the presumption….

        Point to examples of porn where the stars are mistreated and cast an illusion that all porn is the mistreatment of it’s starts. I know I’m not the only person that has seen people try to argue that all porn is rape right?

  16. You do know there are like INFINITE other types of porn beyond the hackneyed description you provided, yes? This would be like saying, “I HATE eating chicken” based on your experience of eating chicken nuggets from the top chain fast food joints.

  17. My wife became ill several years ago and as a result, she has lost both the ability and desire to have sex. I love her dearly, and our relationship has never been about sex alone, but I do miss it. I need it actually. Rather than cheat on my wife and destroy my marriage I turned to porn as a release. I’d always dabbled in porn here and there, like most men, I suppose, and in the early years my wife and I watched it together, which preceeded some pretty fantastic sex. But these days it has become a way of trying to maintain balance in my life. The non-sexual touch we share is very valuable, although it can’t replace making love. No, masterbation is not the same, but it allows me to express my sexuallity without breaking my wife’s and children’s hearts and becoming the man I never wanted to be.
    As for my tastes, if you must know: I am bored to death with the “gyno” shots, and have never enjoyed the kind of perfuctory “down and dirty” formulas popular in most mainstream porn. I love full body shots, and close-ups of the woman’s face, especially eye to eye contact, smiling, and her
    expression as she orgasms. I’m drawn to scenes tha depict a relationship, in which the female parter is treated with respect, as a lover. The videos I watch are generally produced by women for women, and depict very romantic, if graphic, depictions of sex. I’ve always been a very empathetic person who
    has great respect for woman, so the idea of someone being used like a sex toy has never appealed to me. My daughter is having sex (she has a daughter of her own), and I hope her experience is as gentle and beautiful as some of the video scenes I have viewed. If she chose to make a video for the world to see, I would try respect her decision. Naturally, being her father would severely cloud and complicate my perspective, as I hope you can appreciate. Yes, grown adult women do choose to create porn. Contrary to popular beleifs held by anti-porn advocates, woman can and do have sex because they love it, and some find a unique sense of power from being watched and knowing they’re tuning men on. I know this because when a porn actress does an interview and talks about herself, I choose to listen and accept her at her word. Doing porn to score drugs or attempt to cope with a childhood trauma? It happens, of course, but my not watching porn is certainly not going to solve her personal problems. No, I suspect such an individual will go on making self-destructive choices whether I’m watching or not.
    That’s my story, and I’m convinced I’m not alone. Having said all that, however, I will concede that there is a a lot of new research out there suggesting that internet porn can and does lead to problems of depression, impotence and isolation in men who have access to sexual partners but have
    become desensitized the sexual touch of another. But even then, I would stress that balance and moderation in all things is the key, not prohibition of or attaching shame to such material.

  18. You have a heart. Thank God.

  19. It’s nice to know that there are men that don’t like porn and don’t need it in their life. They seem far and few inbetween.

    Frankly, I am painfully tired of what I see a large obession men have with pornography. The obession seems bigger then ever today. What I am about to say isn’t politically correct and it’s probably going to ruffle some feathers but this is honestly how I feel. I am just tired of how interested men are in porn and not real women and real interaction with real women. Every man seems to want to bang twin 19 year old in school girl skirts. I am sick of all the justifications on why it’s okay to objectiy women. I am sick of all the comments about how much men just like beautiful women and how that justifies seeing women women protrayed certain way in popular male sexual entertainment. I am sick of hearing of all the husbands and boyfriends and fathers who just love their porn and don’t seem much to care the issues it arises, or can arise, in the women that care about them. I am sick of being told I am lacking something or I am just insecure because I think porn is disengenous to sex and women and men. I am just tired of it all and I keep waiting and hoping for the day men get tired of it too, turn off their computers and TV and spend as much time learning about real women, their own woman, then turning to porn of young hot babes to entertain themselves too while women are told to basicaly “suck it up/buck up” and deal with it.

    • “I am just tired of how interested men are in porn and not real women and real interaction with real women.”
      Then the half of the problem is probably how WOMEN (those women in particular) act, did you ever think about that? If what you say is true then maybe women on the average are acting in a bad way and turning a lot men OFF from interacting with them? Do you know how many men I hear from are nervous around women because they’re sick of being used, lied to, cheated on, abused, etc? If guys are starving to avoid women then maybe women need to quit blaming porn so much and take a look at their own actions. (of course not all men n women do this)

      But that can’t happen can it? Women taking partial responsibility for these particular men who are avoiding them, it’s always the man’s fault, porn’s fault, never the women in question who are at fault. (Yes I am being sarcastic n generalizing for sarcasm)

      “I am just tired of it all and I keep waiting and hoping for the day men get tired of it too, turn off their computers and TV and spend as much time learning about real women, their own woman, then turning to porn of young hot babes to entertain themselves too while women are told to basicaly “suck it up/buck up” and deal with it.”
      And I’m sick of all the deflecting going on, quite a few women I hear from who cry foul at porn without understanding much of it, these women I don’t see complaining about romance literature and other fantasy mediums that many women in particular use with unrealistic expectations of men.

      It’s a HUGELY complex issue, some use it because they aren’t happy with their partners, some use it because they like variety, some use it because they HAVE no partner (which is how I use it), some use it because quite frankly they’re unlikely to get a partner. Some use it because they’ve had bad after bad experiences with women, some use it because they’re addicted, some use it because quite frankly it looks nice, some use it because their partner also uses it and enjoys it together.

      And I’m really sick of people who lump porn into one huge category which is negative, people like that who conflate the good n bad porn are quite frankly being dishonest with the facts. I’m sick of people who are telling ME that my porn viewing is not good to women, that I am disrespecting women, that I see them as a bunch of holes and telling ME what I am thinking instead of asking ME what I think and believing that.

      You have every right to be annoyed, but I have every right to be annoyed at your absolute major generalizations of the medium you make which are quite frankly extremely offensive to me. It’s pretty much treating me as a person that doesn’t respect women. Like this statement you make “I am just tired of how interested men are in porn and not real women and real interaction with real women. ” You didn’t say some men, you said men, implying most or all men are not interested in interacting with women. Quite frankly it’s misandrist and I’m surprised the moderators didn’t call you out for it, but then again only misogyny seems to get people bothered.

      Be angry all you want but please focus your argument better, stop the damn generalizations about ALL men. Because your comment is so vaguely focused that it is insulting to all men and I object to that.

    • Erin,
      Most men don’t have an obsession with porn, they don’t have an obsession with anything. Its all about sex. Men are wired differently, in a way that honestly is not condusive with monagamy. Men make all that sperm for a reason. Men remain fertile pretty much their whole lives for a reason. As a society, we have put a framework in place that goes against nature and the end result is a ton of unfufilled, frustrated men with a bunch of sperm and nowhere to put it. Unless you are willing to take it all, let them have their jollies, don’t take it personal. Its not an indictment on your “value” its just …..”nature” If you are gonna deal with a man, than you just have to let him handle it or if its so important for you to to be involved than handle it yourself but your gonna need a ton of lube and Ben-Gay.

      If its not “porn”, It will be a bathing suit pic from a magazine or a memory of that time he saw the neighbor-lady topless through the window. Porn is actually keeping more relationships together than in breaking them up when you think about it. It takes the edge off in 2 minutes, it gets men through the 350 days a year when women are not in the mood, tired, busy, sick, etc. It better for a man to spend 10 minutes in the basement in front of the laptop then end up fully loaded and frustrated in a bar full of drunk women. Just sayin…

  20. Ah, porn, and the forever-contentious debate about whether we should or should not be watching strangers have sex in our free time… Gotta cast my vote for the “not a fan” party, but will admit the issue isn’t as simple as love it/hate it. For any guys wondering the REAL reasons why women are so anti-porn, or for any women who just need something to show their boyfriends, made a top 10 list of totally legitimate (really!) reasons why women dislike this modern trend… http://21stcenturylovetriangle.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/browser-beaten-10-totally-legitimate-reasons-why-women-hate-porn/

    • If you read this list and agree as a woman, then you are one arrogant woman.
      “7) We know what you’re thinking.”
      No, you don’t. And clearly pretty much every woman who has commented on porn that I’ve seen has totally gotten it wrong of what men want especially whilst trying to mindread and getting that wrong too. The worst part is they get upset over what they THINK men are thinking, and get angry at the men for it. It’s an insecurity that fuels itself based off misinterpretation half the time.

      “6) We want to be needed, especially in this regard.”
      Not all women want to give the amount of sex their men desire, some will turn to masturbation, some of them will use porn. It sucks but it’s up to the couple to decide what is ok.

      “5) It’s an uphill battle for us, one that we will realistically never win.

      Women really can’t compete with porn. We can’t compete with the accessibility, the variety, none of it.”
      Flesh beats imagery for nearly every man out there. You can easily beat porn. Be willing to have sex, and show enthusiasm for sex, surprise him by wanting it and you’ll probably be so far ahead of porn for nearly every guy. Let him know what turns you on, or gets you in the mood, both of you work at getting each other in the mood.

      “4) It gives men a path of least resistance.”
      And what of the men who have tried and get rejected over n over. Maybe women need to ask themselves why their partners are going for porn and COMMUNICATE with him about it, find out why. Is it because she rejected him 10 times this week? What about making some porn with him? It’s an issue the couple needs to work out but the blame can lie with the man or woman in this case. Both need to keep up their intimacy, but in some cases both men and women may still look for their fantasy material, porn, romance, whatever they want. Some will use that to enhance their own lovelife, some sadly get addicted n ignore their partner, some will want everythiiingggg, people are quite random!

      I also hope these women aren’t delving into fantasy material themselves, do they have 50 shades of grey or romance novels, etc? Hypocrisy isn’t a good stance.

      “2) The alternative suggestions you give are also usually BS, and not helping.”
      Wanna know what else doesn’t help? Women who don’t TRY to restore the intimacy in a bedroom. Countless men have told about how it’s been months, years since any form of intimacy, are they giving a BS excuse? No one NEEDS porn, but no one NEEDS tv, movies, books, or even a relationship. They can make life better though.

      Remember though porn varies in it’s content. The amateur segment is a huge and growing segment in popularity, it’s pretty much what I only watch to avoid the fakeness in the pro industry however I do it when single. When I’m with a woman I want to be with her, porn isn’t interesting, it’s the lack of sex when single that sends me to porn as it enhances masturbation considerably and allows me to actually fantasize about having a partner that wants me.

      Porn is a tricky issue for couples to deal with, I can see negatives and positives both in looking at porn but I guess it depends on the couple itself. I see many women who like porn and many who don’t, some will watch it with a partner without worrying about if the guy is thinking about fucking her. The guy by the way isn’t neccessarily thinking about fucking the porn star herself, the act of sex is sexy to watch, plenty of times I have superimposed a crush or love in my head and the visuals are just there to help fill in the blanks thanks for my terrible ability at visualizing the female body. Sometimes the hottest thing I see is simply penis going into vagina, or just the vulva itself, imagining kissing, licking, and a bunch of sensual n sexy acts without really imagining I am with that actress in particular.

      I can only suggest to talk to your partner in why they look at porn, but seriously do NOT try to mindread them because you’ll probably fail. There’s a reason why men find it hard at times to say why they look at porn and my guess is because it’s the act of sex itself that is sexy without us actually thinking much on who is in the video. It’s HUGELY complex, and every man n woman differs as to why they look at it, it doesn’t mean they don’t find their partner sexy, doesn’t mean they don’t love their partner, but there are so many issues which make it easier at times to goto porn such as not wanting to disturb your partner when she is tired as hell, or for sex-starved relationships where the partner doesn’t want to do anything.

      Do remember that masturbation and sex are forms of intimacy and A LOT of men are probably starved of intimacy. That itself is a huge problem and should be the first thing the couple works on to ensure their lovelife stays strong. Before getting angry at a partner for looking at porn, romance, etc, talk to them about it, hear their side, say your side, and try to find a compromise. It very well could be as simple as finding time to have more sex.

      What has been said in your list is good to a point, but doesn’t work for everyone and I feel you’re generalizing quite a bit about porn itself. When a woman says porn is always about women faking it, I know for a fact that woman hasn’t seen much porn and probably only looks at pro stuff.

      Men have feelings too you know….

      • The Blurpo says:

        I think the major hostility by women regarding porn may be the way how they look at each other and how that reflects on themselves. Like, women reading magazines, they read articles on other women, they scan the picture of the woman in question, they look at her hair, make up, clothing, shoes, body ect and they compare themselves with the popular female. And if needed they can “steal” few tricks from her.
        But with a porn star? big boobs, big lips, slutty outlook, super horny, long legs ect. They feel outmatched even before start. And watching how guys go crazy on them, they become higly hostile toward porn.

        I think maybe this is a possible explanation on why the irrational hate and prejudge toward this kind of entertainment by women. But thats ok, looking at screaming horny women its more a guy thing. Girls also have they own dark world, but the difference is guys are a bit more visual so our world get exposed to scrutiny more often than not.
        About the misinterpretations women make, well they are baffling. But I like to make a analogy, I know a guy, who is 100% convinced that all women are lesbians, just must of them hide their sexuality, using guys as a momentary relief before jumping back to women. Two girl go to the toilet? LESBIAN SEX, two girl drinking coffey at a café? TWO LESBIANS DRINKING COFFEY ect ect. There is simply NOTHING we can do to make him changing his mind. He like the majority of the gals commenting on the porn section, thinks he can read womens mind. Of course he cannot.
        Or another analogy? men and feminism. Everytime feminism comes up as a topik, it looks like a war on the commentary. Boys and girls fighting over each other like crazy. Guys dont trust women, and they come up with alot of motives, girls ignoring them or rejecting them coming with their own explanations, and nobody or few listen to each other. And this happens when somebody is foolish enough to belive to know what the other gender wants.
        A advice? no matter how insisting the voice in your head are, ignoring it. That voice cant give you any good, because that voice is the produce of anxiety. And anxiety is what make you fail. As Archy restless keep repeating, ASK QUESTIONS. Dont pretend to be Deren Brown, your not. So ask ask ask ask. And remember there are no such as dumb questions, only dumb answers.

        Finally to the administration of the GMP: is that possible to add a small section or window with the latest comments, like the had on NSWATMz? because very difficoult to find a specific comment. I get tons of comments on my indbox, but when I want to reply I cant find the specific message. So I keep going back and forth in the comment section in vain. Get frustrated and give up.

        thank you :-)

      • We’re not arrogant – we just want to be the only ones you see naked, simple as that.

      • Archy — Thanks for perusing my post and your detailed response, but honestly, I’m not sure what about that list would come off as arrogant. It wasn’t meant as a be-all-end-all for every conceivable scenario, just a humorous generalization. And, perhaps I should have qualified the whole thing with, “In the context of otherwise healthy relationships, where both parties feel that (for the most part) their sexual needs are being fulfilled…” because questions like “Is it because she rejected him 10 times this week?” are another issue entirely. You’re right – constant sexual rejection undoubtedly drives men to seek stimulation. But, I’m talking about how women — sexually responsive, obliging, and non-hostile women — feel when their BF’s or husbands watch porn. Nothing to do with single fellas or relationships which are DOA for other reasons. Anyway, the overall point is that porn CAN be a problem, and not a good solution. When guys develop an attachment and desire to watch things in a way that negatively impacts an otherwise healthy relationship (and yes, this definitely happens) or develops an unrealistic concept of what a “healthy” sexual relationship really involves. People who want sex for the sake of sex – Porn is perfect. People who want intimacy – Porn can be a problem. That’s all I’m sayin.

        • I meant for the part of knowing what he thinks. There are good ideas in there, though maybe a lil too generalized, but to claim to know what a man thinks, or even another person is arrogant. You can guess but it’s better to communicate with him and find out what he is actually looking at. In all the comment threads on the porn topic I’ve read, every female who has tried to guess what men are thinking, or said what they are thinking, has gotten it wrong for me, for other men commenting. That says a lot I think, I feel women are trying to mind-read men, are seeing something negative, and are making themselves even more insecure.

          I think it’s very possible that what men are thinking isn’t as bad as what women think men are thinking when they look at porn. Hell, how do you explain to a woman that one of the most attractive things about porn is the mechanics of sex, the detail of the vulva, etc, and imagining your own penis going into a vagina without having to think it’s going into the actresses’s vagina. I am single, but I fantasize about having sex with people I know and desire a lot here, whilst seeing porn. Maybe that’s bad to disconnect the porn like that from the actress, but we don’t have to be fantasizing about the person we’re watching all the time. The act of sex itself is very arousing, doesn’t have to necessarily be the pornstar that is turning us on. But quite frankly it doesn’t always make a whole lot of sense the whole arousal system, I’ve even gotten wood at seeing the male star when I have no interest in men.

          Trying to guess what men like based on porn they look at is only ever going to be a guide at best, you have to truly understand what he is thinking. What you see in the video might be completely different to what he sees, funnily enough he might just be thinking of you the majority of the time but watching the act of sex as the extra stimulation without paying attention to the stars themselves. Men often put themselves in place of the actor, but I don’t think women realize that men can also put their love interest/partner in the place of the actress and imagine they’re having sex with their partner.

          • That line was one of out ten, which leaves another 90% of the content, so I’m still not sure what merits a sweeping “any woman who agrees with this list is arrogant.” And, I wasn’t presuming to know what guys think – I was going off what I’ve been told… by guys themselves. Many male friends have told me that they fantasize about exactly that – having sex with the woman on the film, both at the time and later with their partners. That’s great that it’s not your style, and while I understand that what that # describes does not reflect YOUR experience with viewing pornography, that line wasn’t pulled out of thin air. Overall, though, by focusing on that issue, you’re completely missing the point – which is understanding why porn makes some women in relationships uncomfortable. I’m not trying to speak for men, and I’m not trying to encompass every conceivable detail on what every guy is doing. It’s not War & Peace, its not the Bhagavad Gita. It’s a list. Posted on a blog. Written in 30 minutes. And for heavens sake, intended to be humorous! The fact that one out of those ten points, or heck 9 out of ten of them, or even all of them aren’t your experience doesn’t surprise me. Like I said, it’s not a be-all-end-all list. I don’t expect everyone’s experiences to reflect my own, and you shouldn’t either — but don’t discount something as “arrogant” just because it’s not nailing it 110% for you and every guy on the globe. It’s great you express your opinion – but maybe would be better to do so without going on the attack.

            • Apologies for not reading it as humorous. My point was to illustrate how it can be arrogant, an article loses merit with such material in my view but you don’t have to agree. Are you honestly surprised that stating something as fact with the vague intention of it being humorous on an article online would cause a raised eyebrow? Do you realize that other women on this site even are actually honest to god stating what men think, fantasize about, and telling us our own experience as if they know better than we do?

              Yeah you have some good points but womansplaining one point isn’t going to workout how you want. Because that’s what it comes across as. I’m not dismissing the rest of the content, I was taking issue with one point, I read the rest. It appears you have edited the line, and yes it does read better. Do you want the article taken as serious or a bit of fun though? I read the article as serious because I am actually curious on why partners don’t like porn, and thank-you for helping inform me.

  21. Lol, it’s interesting to hear there are guys like you, I never imagined you existed. Maybe you could try going to the site that my girlfriend enjoys, it’s called (url deleted) which seems like a strange name, but it makes sense when you see it

    Good luck!

    Lucy

    • Stephanie says:

      How about you stop spamming an anti-porn article with a porn website. I would imagine there are plenty of men that have read this article that are recovering addicts attempting to steer clear of this crap, and you are most certainly not helping them.

  22. Thank you! I wish there were more men like you. Men willing to admit they dislike pornography instead of falling into the masses of others giving in to whatever all other men are doing.

  23. wow. You’re totally watching the wrong porn. And it kinda sounds that you don’t just hate porn, but you hate sex.

  24. I turned to it, among other things, because I could not accept my reality. The more I watched it, the worse my perception of reality became.

    I can go on and on….but, entertain me for a moment. Think about the best days of your life. The best days of my life are few and porn was never a part of it. I have a better chance at another good day if I just dont open the “art” up.

    Remember, the “more bad” you think something is, the more you crave it.

    I hope this makes sense to you.

  25. Xavier Brown says:

    Thank you Mark, I was googling “hate porn” and this has really opened my eyes to hating porn to where I find it wrong on all accounts.

  26. Zoomed in vibrating throbbing greasy genitalis don’t do it for me. There’s nothing left to the imagination. A good ballet is plenty sensuous for me because I view the body as a whole. Most porn reminds me of dogs sniffing other dogs asses……..asses for that masses…….something sub human for sure.

    Soap operas are on the same level of porn as empty mindless intertainment.

    By far though, the most obscene items are those trashy poorly written Christian religious pamphlets you find in bathroom. Nothing’s filthier than that.

  27. I have every reason to be repulsed by porn, but still, I’m not sure if it’s immoral. I’m not talking about the type of porn that shows women being raped and beaten. There’s no question about that. I’m talking about just straight copulation porn. No story, no message. Nothing else.
    This type of porn may be existential in nature in that it is neither moral or immoral. It may be no more immoral than a colonoscopy. I dislike porn nevertheless.

    • Richard,
      I agree that the immorality of raping and beating of women in pornography is obvious, but that does not discount the immorality of “regular” porn. We all have an internal system (our conscience) that tells us when something is wrong or immoral…we just feel it, right? You even said yourself, there is no question about it. However, just because the abuse is less obvious when we see porn that is not as rough does not mean it is not immoral. The women in these videos are still abused–it’s just easier to hide it. The porn industry is abusive in its concept.
      Check out this video about an ex-porn star and her story:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STUz5ibye2E
      The Bible has a lot to say about immorality and how our consciences tell us what is immoral. Check out the book of Romans when you get a chance.

      • You know, I agree. Obviously porn is exploitative towards females rather than the men. Good point!

        Now then where do we make the distinction between porn and eroticism? Eroticism can sometimes be presented somewhat tastefully and even in a spiritual context such as in some ancient Hindu art. Is eroticism just as immoral? Maybe I’m just talking definitions here. What are your thoughts?

  28. Richard,

    Thanks for the response, and I think you bring up a good point about morality. I would try to explain my answer to your question, but I don’t have enough room to on this blog. (I’ve tried twice now and it kicked me off when the responses got too long lol.)

    However, I think the bottom line is that God created man and woman to be attracted to one another, and when we try to add more to the natural attraction that God created between man and woman (be it through eroticism, pornography, polygamy, etc.) we are essentially telling God that He didn’t do his job right; he didn’t do enough to really satisfy us.

    I always go to my conscience on questions like this, because God gave us all an internal system that tells us what is wrong and immoral. When I’m not sure, I go to the Bible because God promises the truth in his word.

    If you want to talk more, here’s my email: [email protected]
    Hope this helps.

    • In what way do porn films enhance what’s already There? Can you clarify?

      • If God designed man to be attracted to woman, as is apparent in the book of Genesis, then it would make sense that a man would be attracted to any number of women; it is his nature. In Genesis chapter two, however, it is clear that God’s design for a marital relationship between a man and a woman is a relationship that is exclusive. Specifically, the bonds that form between that marriage (emotional, spiritual, sexual) were designed to remain only between the man and woman engaged in the marital relationship. The Apostle Paul echos the importance of this exclusiveness in marriage when he writes his letter to the Corinthians, who debated whether it was morally sound to have more than one spouse. And since it is God’s design for a sexual relationship to occur only between one man and one woman who had committed to this exclusive relationship, anything that invades the exclusiveness of that relationship is a perversion of his design.

        In porn films, the viewer is engaged, even if through a computer screen, in an act that God designed solely for the enjoyment of the man and woman involved in that sexual act, in the context of a marriage. In the same way, orgies, threesomes, and whatever other sexual acts that invade the exclusiveness that God designed for marriage are considered sin, according to the Bible. So, when someone engages in watching a porn film, he/she is invading an act the was designed to be enjoyed by only the one man and one woman engaged in the act and who are committed in a marriage.

        I hope that clarified my earlier post. Let me know if it is still confusing.

  29. But then you do not dislike, or ‘hate’ pornography. You dislike or ‘hate pornography that does not comply with your perception of the genre.
    You do not see the human misery that hides behind the shiny face of the porn video, the trafficking in young children and women for the sex industry of the world. You do not say that you see as evil the billions made out of this exploitation of human souls and bodies, the degradation endured for the next shot of H, blow or whatever drug has its hold. And you don’t say you find hateful the fact that death from sexually transmitted diseases is the industrial disease of the porn industry. Look and ponder at the lists of porn “stars” who have died thus.
    From the Greek ‘pornos’ – prostitute and ‘grapho’ – I write, we get the word pornography, prostitute writings. Those who perform are no less prostitutes, male or female than are those who ply their trade in a more secretive fashion.
    Yet I am a man, not even a religious man, so why am I not ‘turned on’ by the synthetic gyrations or the passion in dead, uninterested eyes?
    It is estimated that there are at least 12 million men, women and children in slavery around the world. The modern face of slavery includes …, sexual slavery, child labour, bonded labour… – Amnesty International figures.
    That’s why I hate porn. It degrades the state of humankind.

    • God, your comment has so much wrong with it. Enjoy eating your dinner? Dinner that may have been picked by people earning a very dodgy and low wage being exploited? Enjoy your clothing? Made by exploited people? Did you buy all of your stuff from people who have access to a safe working condition?

      Porn can be bad, porn can be good. So go watch the GOOD porn, made by people 100% in control of their life, people who are not trafficked. No point hating the entire medium/s because it doesn’t fit your perception of porn. If you think the eyes in porn are dead and uninterested a lot then I suggest you increase your empathy levels because a HAPPY AND WILLING participant is the most popular theme in porn!

      • There is very little point in replying to a specious argument, however, I will try. The fact that people are exploited and enslaved in other ways does not negate the fact of the pornographers’ guilt. That is like saying because people die from hit and run accidents, street robberies are somehow acceptable.
        My perception of pornography does not change, (Perception, noun: the ability to be aware through the senses). My opinion of pornography is formed by my perception of the genre, that too, does not change.
        Your last statement, perhaps you can back this up with some empirical evidence that all the prostitutes you see in porn films are “in charge of their lives”. I rather suspect, however, that your statement is a measure of your perspicacity or should I say lack of the same.

        • Or maybe I know porn stars? I’ve made my own porn for a friend, and you can read about porn stars lives if you bother to look it up. Not all of them are drug addicted and have hard lives you know, there are plenty who simply enjoy the work and are voyeuristic if anything.

          Here is some evidence.
          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/9714993/Why-female-porn-stars-may-be-happier-than-non-porn-counterparts.html
          ht tp://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/11/28/porn_stars_and_childhood_molestation_new_study_says_porn_actresses_are_sexually.html
          ht tp://www.livescience.com/27428-truth-about-porn-stars.html

          • This is an argument that will only go round in circles. Consider:
            1. Pornography exploits men women and children involved .
            2. Pornography makes every person who watches complicit in that exploitation.
            3. Pornography contributes to slavery and organised crime and brutality.
            These are three facts that can be verified in the crime figures and research almost anywhere in the world…

            “Trafficking in human beings for whatever purpose – sexual or labour exploitation – and the sexual exploitation of children, including child pornography, are despicable crimes affecting the most vulnerable citizens. Preventing and fighting them is a top EU priority. Therefore, the Commission has proposed new rules for tougher action against criminals responsible for child sexual abuse and trafficking, as well as better assistance for victims”.
            European Home Affairs 2013-08-10
            “Studies suggest that a significant minority of children in Europe, between 10 % and 20 %, are sexually assaulted during their childhood. This phenomenon is not decreasing and certain forms of sexual violence (like child pornography) are becoming a matter of growing concern”. (abid)
            That’s what I mean by empirical evidence.
            If you wish to bury your head in the sand, by all means feel free to do so, meanwhile I will steer clear.

            • Um, no, It’s easy to prove not ALL porn exploits people. It’s so easy that even children can understand such a comment. Wanna know how? Because there are THOUSANDS of producers who make it with 100% free will, no exploitation going on. Do some research instead of speaking such drivel n generalizing about a form of entertainment you have no idea about. Yes sometimes people get exploited, there are laws against it in many countries but not all porn is like that. You can find exploitation in every industry but according to your flawed logic, if you do ANYTHING in this world you are complicit.

              Stop conflating child pornography with the completely different adult pornography.

            • There is no such thing as “good porn” As a sex therapist, the most dissatisfied, empty, disconnected individuals are the ones who are frequent consumers of porn. Not to mention all the erectile dysfunction issues that often accompany porn addiction. All forms of porn dehumanize and detract from real intimacy, which is what we all truly crave. Porn reduces sex to mere mechanics and puts all the emphasis on achieving orgasm which any animal can experience. There are much higher pursuits that bring fulfillment in committed relationships and produce healthy, ever-evolving eroticism in marriage. Porn is a cheap counterfeit that detracts from quality and satisfaction in every way. When my clients start to understand how to cultivate real intimacy that increases self-esteem, grows mutual respect and heightens desire and creativity, they naturally discard porn because a) they realize the damage it can do and 2) they don’t want anything to tamper with what they have tapped into.

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