Rape Culture: Men, Women, and Power

The only people who think all men are rapists, Soraya Chemaly writes, are, well, rapists.

Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?

On any given day you can, if you chose, participate in an entertaining and informative pop culture rape happening. This week started with Salon’s Glenn Greenwald making jokes about President Obama raping nuns and week before last, #ItAintRapeIf, a fun Twitter hash tag was trending. You can find popular TV shows and movies and lists of music with rapey lyrics to hyper-real, 3-D video games like RapeLay (which went viral last year), in which players help the hero rape a mother and her two daughters. Facebook still has its controversial rape pagesRape talk, as in “that was just like being raped,” long indulged in by right-wing shock jocks is now regularly slang. I mention all of this while admitting that Sarah Silverman, famous (or notorious) for her rape jokes, is one of my all time favorite comedians. How about last week’s “Who Would You Rape?” University of Vermont fraternity survey? And, of course, there is Penn State. Wonder how adults shield child rapists and perfectly nice boys play rape games? These examples are rape culture manifest. If you are not sure what rape culture looks like, this is it: sexual violence—overwhelmingly against girls and women—tolerated, excused and normalized through attitudes, norms, practices, and media.

It is hard to get people to acknowledge the startling reality of rape or to even imagine a world where rape isn’t happening at the rate of once every two minutes in the course of a regular day in the US. There are lots of ways that we talk about rape that perpetuate myths or diffuse the reality of what is an overwhelmingly gendered crime, the threat and reality of which vastly disproportionately affects women.

That does NOT mean that all men are rapists. The only people who think all men are rapists are, well, rapists. However, ninety-nine percent of the perpetrators of single offender sexual assault crimes, according to the Department of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Survey,  are men, including boys being sexually abused. Pointing this out is not a feminist attempt to eradicate and undermine men and masculinity. It’s explaining the degree with which the crime can genuinely be seen as gender-based and why I think it’s important that individual stories be told in the context of rape as part of a larger dynamic of power.

♦◊♦

I’m also not saying that women don’t rape and sexually abuse children. Sexual assault of children, girls and boys, are part of rape culture, which is defined by its cultivation of specific, violent, male sexual aggression. However, when rape comes up in discussion, there is often a reflexive pointing out that women rape, too, as in this Women Rape, Too post. Saying that sexual violence affects girls and women disproportionately does not mean that boys’ and men’s experiences of assault and rape are in any way less relevant or horrific. In statistical terms, however, right now, while data on female sexual assault is hard to gather and verify for reasons listed below, it’s exactly like pointing out that some men get breast cancer every time the subject of women’s breast cancer fatalities comes up. According to the CDC study, in the US, between 1% and 2% of men have been raped or experienced an attempted rape, often by an intimate partner, almost always male, (many when they were younger than 11) compared to 20% of women.
 That 1-2% is a total – not just those where there may be female perpetrators.

The CDC study revealed that boys are twice as likely to be raped as children – 28% of male rape victims reported being raped between the ages of 6-10, after which the incidence of assaults drops off, versus 12% of girls, for whom the incidence peaks in their teens through twenties, but virtually never ends. No reliable source, including RAINN, The Department of Justice, the Centers for Disease Control, Advocates for Youth among others, has any substantive and quantitatively sound information regarding the incidence of single offender female perpetrators of abuse. This isn’t because of a boy hating, man-bashing feminist conspiracy. It’s because a) our culture doesn’t like admitting male weakness, b) it is rarely reported and/or c) it is actually comparatively rare. Interestingly, the breakdown for multiple offender crimes is different: 59% male, 12.9% female and 22.9% male/female combined.

Our news media has been filled, sadly, in recent years by stories of boys being raped by priests, coaches and other trusted adults. But these reports, which highlight the vulnerability of boys, is disproportionate considering female rape as part of a pandemic spectrum of sexual violence against girls and women, which typically begins at adolescence and, unlike the abuse of boys, does not taper down after adolescence. This isn’t dismissing boys’ abuse or adult male victimization, only pointing out a bias in coverage that incorporates typical approaches to “debunking” rape realities and perpetuating rape myths. The exact same culture that supports rape myths and apologies related to victim blaming, defining consent, accusing women of lying, contribute to the difficulty of getting accurate information about boys being victimized. Here are some ways that the rape experiences of boys and men are specifically denied, ignored and hidden—not by feminism—but by sexism, misogyny and the application of heteronormative standards:

  • Traditionally, and I use that word very specifically, rape has been considered part of a natural order, in other words, the normal consequence of how men and women are built. In this scenario, women are passive, weak and often temptresses; men are physically strong, violently sexual and unable to help themselves when provoked. This definition of sexuality, which by the way is an essential component of abstinence-only “sex ed,” is narrow and results in a restrictive, forcible, male-on-female definition of rape. It certainly doesn’t allow for boys to be victims, certainly not at the hands of women or even of adult men. As Advocates for Youths points out: “Male victimization is particularly hard to estimate due to beliefs that only girls can be abused; that sex between older women and boys is desirable; that male victimization of boys indicates lack of masculinity and/or acquiescence by the child.” Gender stereotypes in the employ of sexism and misogyny are to blame for that. Not feminists fighting against rape culture.
  • Sexual assault of children by women is underreported because patriarchal, cultures don’t like admitting that women can be sexually motivated or use sex to wield power in aggressive and monstrous ways. That would mean admitting that some women are more “like men,” not the champions of a higher morality, not weaker, not all naturally more “nurturing.” That’s a lot of subversive information if you want to highlight how vulnerable and dependent women are. In addition, in the same environments, boys grow up knowing that to be weak or powerless in particularly when the aggressor is female is a big no-no.
  • Lastly, as Hugo Schwyzer pointed out here—which was one of the catalysts to huge controversy, men should be angry—not at feminists for describing rape culture, but at rape culture’s insistence on a vile definition of male sexuality that has violence at its core and that makes suspicion of all man the only rational approach to safety.

It’s hard to step back from the horror of rape, particularly the rape of children, to consider the larger context in which it happens, especially in a forum dedicated to the primacy of individual stories and experiences. There is a qualitative difference between saying men rape women and women rape men and that difference gets eliminated when you tell individual stories without context. Male-on-female rape is part of a larger system of violence and oppression—this is a fundamental aspect of rape theory. Boys and men don’t have to think about being the victims of rape on a regular basis. (And comparing being mugged to an underlying perpetual awareness of vulnerability to rape is just sloppy and inaccurate in terms of scope or effect.) Rape—the threat of it, the frequency of it, the gendered reality of it—is one of a long list of ways that women are controlled in private and public spaces. Men don’t alter the cadence of their days—their commutes, hobbies, jogging paths, sleeping habits, parking routines, dog walking, working hours—because they have to consider being raped. Women, not even consciously, incorporate their protective responses and defenses into everything they do. Girls learn that they have to do that in their first introduction to gender based inequities after a childhood of hearing that boys and girls are equal. Raising the specter of women raping boys implies a false equivalence and doesn’t help us understand and change a culture where rape—the power, the crime, the threat, and the jokes—is acceptable.

♦◊♦

A lot of the debate over rape culture theory that I’ve read here hinges on its being filtered through the lens of individual stories instead of the other way round. As a result it ends up being misrepresented as an individual man-bad/perpetrator, woman-good/victim argument. The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape. Organizations like My Strength, Men Can Stop RapeAdvocates for Youth and others are working hard to do that. Books like the The Guys Guide to Feminism, with its illustrated rules of consent, is another good start. To me, good men and women are people who say this has to end. They stop deflecting, trivializing and joking about it and then do something to change it.

—Photo Boa-sorte&Careca/Flickr

About Soraya Chemaly

Soraya Chemaly is a feminist satire writer and media critic. She is also regular contributor to the Huffington Post on issues of gender and media. Email: soraya.chemaly@gmail.com twitter: @schemaly

Comments

  1. HidingFromtheDinosaurs says:

    1. Your statistics are inaccurate. I presume this was written when the NCVS was the only resource available, but no credible academic would have ever used that data without doing the research on it, and the research would have told you that the study used a definition of rape designed to exclude rape committed by women against men by counting only penetrative rape. You are guilty of poor research, something which is not even tolerated among students and is a dereliction of your academic duty. Please read this article for an interpretation of more recent results: http://www.genderratic.com/?p=836. I of course encourage you to check those figures for yourself.

    2. Don’t mention Rapelay unless you actually know what you’re talking about. Every time someone mentions it in the Western media, they just embarrass themselves. It “went viral” years after everyone had stopped caring about it because some idiot in the mainstream media saw one used copy on Amazon that was removed (unsold) hours later. The game was never even released in English. It belongs to a media and culture entirely removed from the one your are discussing. By the time you wrote this, the people who made it had already made several more (including one about women raping men) and the Western media outrage had become a topic of satire. Hell, it’s not even unique. There’s an entire genre of games like that (some of them aimed at and/or made by women) and you can’t talk about it with any degree of credibility unless you talk about the entire Japanese porn industry too.

  2. “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?”

    Yes. What I take issue with in the expression ‘rape culture’ is the juxtaposition of the words, the conflation (to borrow a word from so many activist articles) of ‘rape’ and ‘culture.’

    Expressions such as ‘sports culture’ or ‘martial culture’ or ‘hedonistic culture’ imply value. The idea in front of the word ‘culture’ is important and valued in the society it is describing. Persons who excel at the particular culture are awarded higher status.

    I don’t think it is an accident that the poorly defined and ill used concept of ‘rape culture’ parallels those other phrases. It gives a tacit weight to the construct and awards legitimacy based on the parallels with the commonly used idea of a ‘(value) culture, and in that fashion is a completely deceptive premise for advancing an argument.

  3. The Entry for “Rape Culture” at Wikipedia, as referenced by the OP has been updated and tagged to warn users that the Neutrality of the entry and its Validity are questionable and in the process of being addressed with editors.

    In particular the page conflicts with other wiki pages on such matters as “Causes of sexual violence”
    – which states “Examples of behaviors said to typify rape culture include victim blaming, trivializing prison rape, and sexual objectification.”

    The “Rape Culture” page omits many recognised manifestations of Trivialisation and in particular “trivializing prison rape” – which is seen an gendered and primarily against men.

    I will be working with the editors and using all suitable references to have the Disputes over the content of this Wikipedia page, it’s neutrality and misleading content addressed fully and as promptly as possible.

    It should be noted that Wikipedia has the following to say about it’s own content

    “The Wikipedia project suffers systemic bias that naturally grows from its contributors’ demographic groups, manifesting an imbalanced coverage of a subject, thereby discriminating against the less represented demographic groups.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias

    The Rape Culture Wikipedia page is a clear case in hand! It is to be hoped that “imbalanced coverage of a subject” will be addressed and resolved so that future references to the page will have some validity and not be used to mislead and even abuse.

    • Update: It seems that some at Wikipedia are listening.

      The Definitions being applied are being made “Gender Neutral” – as they should have been throughout.

      Matters are progressing and it is to be hoped that in the near future it may be a source worth referencing and which provides valid and accurate information for all who use it or refer to it.

  4. In all the media attention to breast cancer, I hear very little mention at all that men can have it, too. I don’t see why it shouldn’t me mentioned more. Richard Rountree, the original Shaft, is a survivor of breast cancer and had much of his pecs removed because of it. Surely this could be a men’s health issue, too.

    Very irony about men and breast cancer: the local fundraising 5K race to raise money to fight breast cancer is for women only, even though a few men do get breast cancer. I can donate, but I can’t walk/run/roll in the 5K race.

    Meanwhile, the ovarian cancer 5K race accepts men and women, even though men definitely don’t get ovarian cancer. Go figure.

    • “Very small irony”

    • Julie Gillis says:

      That’s just silly.

    • Had the same issue here in The UK!

      The charity has to change it’s mind as they received Government Funding for research.

      Gender based discrimination caused Human Rights Abuse – Article 14 – so they had the choice, be sexists or loose all funding and face very bad media which would hit donations.

      It seems that Money and Media count! They even encouraged men to wear bras as they ran, to up the media value!

  5. this discussion reminded me of this http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2008/01/10/deconstructing-rape-culture/

    “But how can a term “facilitate” discussion when it is so ambiguous? If one merely wishes to emphasize that rape is, amongst other things, an expression of beliefs and attitudes which are not unique to the rapist, why use a term, “rape culture,” which can be legitimately used to mean: a culture of male dominance which is shored up by rape?

    I believe that what the term “rape culture” — like “patriarchy” — really does is foster an apparent solidarity between feminists of quite different persuasions. To believe (1) that men as a class are bound to defend their collective interests by promoting male-on-female rape is a universe away from merely believing (2) that rape has a cultural dimension which we mustn’t neglect if we wish to prevent its occurrence. The former notion, in my view, is implausible and belied by the facts. The latter view is, in my view, correct. But the term’s equivocation means that when meaning (1) is attacked, liberal feminists can leap to the defence of their radfem sisters with a (wholly redundant) defence of (2), and demonstrate, through a show of hostility towards a common enemy, that all feminists are, at bottom, on the same side.”

  6. Rape Culture
    Joyce Williams

    Extract

    Rape culture is a concept of unknown origin and of uncertain definition; yet it has made its way into everyday vocabulary and is assumed to be commonly understood.

    The award-winning documentary film Rape Culture made by Margaret Lazarus in 1975 takes credit for first defining the concept. The film’s narration relies heavily on jargon such as “rapism” and “phallocentric society” and is more illustrative than definitive in dealing with rape as depicted in movies, music, and other forms of entertainment.

    Authors of the popular Transforming a Rape Culture define the phenomenon as “a complex of beliefs that encourages male sexual aggression and supports violence against women … a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent” ( Buchwald et al. 1993 : v). An earlier definition was offered by Herman (1984) , who characterized the US as a rape culture because the image of heterosexual sex is based on a model of aggressive male and passive female.

    At the other end of the continuum of definitions are efforts to define a rape culture empirically, such as are found in the work of Baron and Straus (1989) and Ellis (1989) . Some empirical works on rape theorize its emanation from a subculture of violence, for example societies with high homicide rates also tend to have high rape rates ( Amir 1971 ; Baron & Straus 1989 ). Other researchers have …

    http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?query=rape+culture&widen=1&result_number=1&from=search&id=g9781405124331_yr2011_chunk_g978140512433124_ss1-19&type=std&fuzzy=0&slop=1

    Did this reference get missed?

    • I have two questions for Ms Soraya Chemaly to answer.

      You linked to Wikipedia – a known site that has accuracy and impartiality issues. Subsequently you refer readers to Blackwell Reference Online – a source of credible reputation in the field of Social Sciences. The post above is from there and is recognised as quite authoritative and accurate.

      Blackwell say of their own work:

      “Clear, concise, expert definitions and explanations of the key concepts written by leading scholars in the field.

      An essential reference for expert and newcomer alike, with entries ranging from short definitions of key terms to extended explorations of major topics.

      Materials that have historically defined the discipline, but also more recent developments, significantly updating the store of sociological knowledge.

      Introductions to sociological theories and research that have developed outside of the United States and Western Europe.”

      One therefore has to wonder, why you used a lesser source in support of your arguments?

      My second question is do you understand the definitions below?

      Pious fraud (Latin: pia fraus) is used to describe fraud in religion or medicine. A pious fraud can be counterfeiting a miracle or falsely attributing a sacred text to a biblical figure due to the belief that the “end justifies the means”, in this case the end of increasing faith by whatever means available. Thomas Jefferson once referred to a doctor who used placebos as a fraud, even if a pious one.

      Bad faith (Latin: mala fides) is double mindedness or double heartedness in duplicity, fraud, or deception. It may involve intentional deceit of others, or self deception.

  7. Nothing like starting the week with a bang. Here are my responses to comments throughout, which I’ve summarized into the following areas:
    1. Statistics…I’m not abusing statistics or being dishonest about them. I’m using readily available numbers from large scale studies while admitting their limitations due to definitions. In addition, I stated clearly that changes in definitions and culture will make the recognition of male victimization easier and better understood. I did take issue, which I addressed in earlier comments, with the use of very small sample size studies referenced in comments.
    2. The issue of qualitative versus quantitative. My point was not that individual male rapes are qualitatively “different” That’s absurd. However, one of my main points it that individual stories of abuse and rape should be seen in context and the context for rape is often one of power. Rape of women around the world is a tool of widespread gender oppression. Related to this is the issue of “disproportionality” – which I mentioned as a reference to media bias NOT rape.
    3. MRA’s – this is the first mention of MRAs that I have ever made – comments brought that issues up.
    4. Audience – Lisa and I reviewed four drafts of this post, which was uploaded on the same day as another that I made in another forum. Contrary to commenter below, this point was most explicitly written and rewritten with this forum and audience in mind.
    5. Arguing about rape culture. Yes, I did cite Wikipedia because, quite frankly it is a good summary. However, here are some books I have read and sources that might be useful for anyone interested in where this viewpoint comes from.

    Rape Culture 101: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html (sorry, you will have to read an overtly progressive feminist blog)
    Blackwell’s Encyclopedia of Sociology:
    http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnodeid=g9781405124331_yr2011_chunk_g978140512433124_ss1-19
    Yes Means Yes: (book and blog) http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/
    Transforming a Rape Culture (37 men’s and women’s stories) and an excellent overview of rape culture, race, gender, sexuality and power
    Susan Brownmiller’s, Men Women and Rape, is also an important source despite it’s racial issues.

    After reading through the comments I am again struck by the lack of a common language that seems to aggravate conversation. By common language, I mean a fundamental framework and understanding of key topics and issues. For example, “patriarchy.” There is an implication that this term is somehow a feminist fantasy, created to oppress men instead of what it undeniably is, namely, a system of government or societal organization in which men have power and women are largely excluded from having power.

    • Patriarchy the term is not a feminist fantasy, they took the term and built fantasies and lies around it.

      And Shakeville is a propaganda site, they tell bare faced lies about abuse.

      They are so intellectually dishonest they define rape culture as not acknowledging victims, and talk about abuse as if it were gendered, in other words, shaksville promote rape culture, as do you and mist feminists.

      Its not that people don’t understand, its that they do.

    • Soraya, you erased the existence of male victims of female abuse with this statement:

      “But these reports, which highlight the vulnerability of boys, is disproportionate considering female rape as part of a pandemic spectrum of sexual violence against girls and women”

      How can I ever listen to your reasonings when you throw those boy victims under a bus without considering the fact that these boys, and male victims in general, suffer enough stigmitization in their life that they don’t need someone like you yet again contributing to their erasure?

      And MediaHound just debunked your rape culture useage. The fact you continue to apply it anyway is another reason why I won’t listen to your reasonings.

      • Eagle

        “And MediaHound just debunked your rape culture useage.”

        Actually I can’t take credit. The more I delve and the more I research, the more I find people both men and women who have been there well ahead of me. It just seems that “Rape Culture” is so poorly defined that as a Meme, it just gets adapted to ignore rational reality.

        I keep finding incidents of academics being quoted and cited as accepting the Noun “Rape Culture” and then corrections having to be made as the person cited will not use the term and they are not happy. It seems that academics across many fields from psychology to sociology and even law are not willing to be linked to the term because it is so badly defined, used in ways that breach basic academic rigour and there is no base Citation or Cited Theory or Frames of Reference in which to make sense of it and check its usage and abuses!

        The explosion on a US Centric basis in the last 12 months has been linked to Slutwalk – and the misuse is more to do with Marketing Hype than anything else.

        And if the Reified Term – Concept – Theory – Model – that is “Rape Culture” is so endemic and epidemic for so many decades, why will the US Government Not Us It?

        Conspiracy Theorists Ignite!

        • @MediaHound

          Why do feminists want to make rape a culture?

          • Well Culture has three recognised meanings;

            1) Excellence of taste in the fine arts and humanities, also known as high culture
            2) An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning
            3) The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization, or group

            It seems that some are attempting to use 3 but it’s getting mixed up with 2 – and then you have SlutWalk which is actually attempting to be 1.

            … and of course it should always be remembered that if you claim a culture it’s higher than an abstract concept which you can’t define, provide citation for and keep on ignoring.

            Also claiming a culture is a known Fallacy – Reification or the fallacy of misplaced concreteness. It means you take an abstract, no matter how poorly defined, and then present it as absolute reality, which you then refuse to consider flawed or even an incomplete reality.

            Thinking about it – that sounds like high performance art – so maybe it is all about seeking funding from the National Arts Endowment? P^)

            • Julie Gillis says:

              Would you say that rape and sexual assault are real issues for men? Would you say that violence against humans, sexual violence can be and often is endemic in times of war, prisons, and systems where classes of people are highly divided?

              I would. I’d say above all we live in a culture where violence is nearly celebrated and sexual pleasure is downplayed. Sexuality is often highlighted, but not in terms of peacable relations, but conquest, kabuki porn, and who’s on top in the games people play.

              Rape winds up in a nexus there. I’d like to see less of it. I don’t want to create a culture, but change the one that’s there to begin with.

              • Julie

                “Would you say that rape and sexual assault are real issues for men?”

                Define issue?

                I have had to deal with the aftermath of Sexual Assault against men – and it’s one hell of an issue. It covers all age ranges. I have dealt with a 3 year old at one end of the spectrum – and a 93 year old at the other end. The three year old was abused by a family member – the 93 year old by a carer who also had sadomasochistic tendencies! That Carer – she was a right character – abused every Client (male or female) she was sent to, by the agency she was employed by, and believed she could do as she liked because it was her word against the victim – and the victims feared loosing care and dignity more than being abused daily!

                There you are – elder and frail – living alone – and you are in the bath for the first time in a week – and Ms Care from S&M Care Services inserts things in places they should not go and – and your options are? Scream blue murder and get left in the bath with no way out – probable death due to hypothermia – or do you allow it and make sure you end up dry clothed and sitting in a chair – and then once Ms S&M care services has gone you sit and think and worry – and refuse to bathe for six months – until someone notices the issue?

                Or do you mean the issue with the real events being dismissed, marginalised, ignored – and people not being given credibility for the real effect it has on their life? A man who after 40 years decides to tell someone that they were sexually abused and raped for 10 years during their childhood – and the only reason they are speaking now is that the abuser/rapist died last week – and he even went to the funeral to make sure the “Bar Steward” was dead – and so for the first time in 40 years they do not fear speaking out and what the abuser would do as a result?

                Or maybe you mean do men have issues with it being assumed that they are Sexual Abusers and Rapists – and even fear taking their kids swimming just in case when they are helping their child (male or female) change clothing that someone will scream “Kiddy Fiddler”?

                Real issues – and that is just your first line – and that is a potted version of issues too!

                Do you have space at that desk?

                I think I would benefit from a Good Head Banging session too!

                Sometimes even the tablets are not enough! http://www.fukitol.com/

                • Julie Gillis says:

                  You do not have to convince me of abuse. I have also worked with the elderly (calling CPS on more occasions than I can count). Abuse? I believe. I believe its part of a culture that allows for violence. Or, if culture is not something biological, which I’d hate to believe (that abusive behavior is just coded into our DNA).

                  I do have issues with men having issues about sexual abuse since it’s clear that they suffer from it and, yes, some do perpetrate it. This is the problem. All humans do. We can either assume all of us are guilty first, or assume none of us are, or try to find ways to identify perpetrators that doesn’t demonize everyone.

                  To try to find ways to encourage victims to speak out, without creating a victim culture.

                  My desk right now is huge, bang away and let’s have a pint.

                  • Just read a comment on huffy post that has so much ignorance it makes me want to bang the stupid out of my head right now. How strong is that desk?
                    First step to removing the demonization is showing the true level of male suffering, and female perpetration to remove the stereotype of male abuser, female victim ALWAYS.

                    When people can remove that gender stereotype and see a man as a human first, a woman as a human first, before thinking Oh men, have alll the powerrr, men are majority of rapists! etc and actually see a human, someone who can be a victim, a perpetrator, an ally, an enemy…

                    Comments can be so extremely frustrating, lucky I have a new game to play (SWTOR) to escape the stupidity for a while. Yay

              • What occurs more often, rape or violent assault, especially of males?

                What is feature more on TV and movies, rape or violent assault of males?

                What are more movies themed on, rape or violent assault of males?

                What is more likely to be framed as a joke in the media? A women being raped by a man or a man being violently attacked by a woman?

                Who are more popular, even considered heros, rapists or people who are known to be expert at violent assault, especially of males?

                What is more celebrated in our culture, rape or violence, especially of male victims? (note there is no term called or movement decrying “violence against men”, despite men being victims far more often).

                Considering these realities, why do feminists claim that there is a “rape culture” but not a “violence against males” culture?

                • Julie Gillis says:

                  I would argue that there is a culture of violence period. Human on human, with humans apparently using politics to further violence in all directions. At this point I would not be able to tell you which stats were true, which were false, and which were just being manipulated for someone’s purpose, MRA or Feminist.

                  That’s what I would argue.

                  • “I would argue that there is a culture of violence period.”

                    It’s clear that violence affects far more people than does rape, both men and women, but especially men.

                    So, why don’t feminists claim that there is a “violence culture” or “violence against males culture”, both of which occur far more frequently than rape and has had a far bigger impact on the humanity?

                    • Julie Gillis says:

                      I suspect many of them do. I do. They can believe in both, or assume the existence of both. I don’t see why this always has to be a “One Ring To Rule Them All” kind of deal. Most feminism I’ve experienced is social justice based, looking to even playing fields all over the place, not a zero sum game. The women and men I know who consider themselves feminist (and I mean know personally) seek equal rights across a wide intersection of cultures/isms/whathaveyou.

                      I myself can only do so much, and you don’t have to believe a word I say Eric, but that’s my stance.

                    • “I suspect many of them do. I do.”

                      If that is true, why are there literally thousands of comments by feminists and articles on this site alone using the term “rape culture” but zero on “violence against men culture” or even “violence culture?”

                      Why is that?

                      If feminism were not zero sum-based movement, feminists would not have used the term “rape culture” thousands of times but “violence against men culture” and “violence culture” zero times. This article, others like it, and the thousands of comments are evidence of what the feminist movement is about.

                      “I myself can only do so much, and you don’t have to believe a word I say Eric”

                      Julie, I know you can do only so much. That is true of us all. However, I can only believe that for which there is evidence.

                    • Julie Gillis says:

                      Well, here is my piece. I’m not a national mouthpiece for feminism, but I am a feminist, so take a look.
                      http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/heresy-rape-statistics-and-getting-away-from-the-poles/

                    • Soraya mentioned a “16Days of Awareness campaign this year focused on reducing militarism” which is a good start. Another would be for people to still enjoy their wargames etc but to grow empathy for the reality of the situation. I can enjoy killing in a game, because I know it’s fiction, as soon as it turns real I get concerned. We need to ensure our kids aren’t exposed to hate speech, eg against muslims after 9/11, or American citizens in many countries that hate them.

                      Cultures of violence, fear, hate exist all around the globe and they do have a portion of rape in them, what I see talked about in rape culture sounds to me like part of a larger culture of violence. I think it’d be best to expand the view and tackle it all at once. Does rape happen alone or is it rape + dv for instance, is it a “tool” in a large arsenal of control, hatred, etc?

                    • Julie,

                      I didn’t have time to read it all but it is an improvement over this and all the other “rape culture” articles, for a certainty – and the countless other rape articles that feminists have been posted here. So, thank you for that. You keep h

                      I’m sure you mean well. However, I haven’t seen evidence that social justice for all is even attempted by a movement that is itself polarized, where the focus is on a single demographic, with little to no concern for any others. Feminism is not the only example of this but it certainly is one.

                  • David Byron says:

                    No violence is very much being reduced all over the place. It’s acceptable when used against only a shrinking pool of people including men and foreigners and especially foreign men.

                • Is this funny – and how does it fit in the “Rape Culture™” world?

                  http://youtu.be/w7pNiELcZsg

                • This is even better 130,927,905 views on YouTube.

                  How does this fir into the “Rape Culture™” world?

                  http://youtu.be/EVBsypHzF3U

                  • David Byron says:

                    You better not be dissing LadyGaga! 🙂

                    • David – I’m just wondering how here video should be viewed in light of –

                      “describing a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women.”

                      I am surprised that there has been less outcry and such high viewing figures. Then you also have to consider Gaga and her Drag King motife where she is repeatedly seen “Acting Out” macho and groping and fondling women – and them laughing for the Camera. Such odd dissonance.

              • Julie – I know you get it – I wrote it in the hope that some others who need to hear the message may just read it!

                Pint? I need some frat types with a tube – a funnel – and a full keg! P^)

            • I see rape just as another crime. Arrest the accused, give him/her a fair trial and punish him/her. Nobody is responsible for the crime except the criminal.

            • @ MediaHound

              I was never even remotely involved in sexual violence. Does that make me an uncultured man in feminist jargon??? Should I feel ashamed for that??

          • Julie Gillis says:

            I think I need to hit my head against a desk for a few minutes. We don’t. I don’t. Good lord.

            • @Julie

              I have one question haunting my mind as to what qualifies you to call yourself feminist??
              There are several people who call themselves feminists take different stance on different issues and when feminism is attacked loudly cry out not all feminists are like that. It is really confusing.No rhetoric please. Try to keep it under 30 words.

              • Julie Gillis says:

                Do you mean because I don’t act like a feminist or because I defend them? I’m suspicious of your question at this point. What are you confused about

                I’ll use as many words as I want.

                I have considered myself a feminist because I believe women are equal human beings to men, because I believe men are also treated like shit under the current system of western masculinity we have going on, and because I think we could work on things together so that men and women could both benefit from getting out from under some old systems that treat people in general badly. Because I believe in a model of collaboration rather than one up/one down.

                I wish Soraya would post the verbiage from an email she sent me once. It was pretty awesome and sketched out to show how men are affected.

                My biggest problem today, right now, with the history of feminism? Is that they put the word “fem” in there. Maybe if they’d started, so many years ago with “humanist” instead, we’d not be arguing about how the current culture damages and is toxic to men as well as women. But maybe not.

                • “I have considered myself a feminist because I believe women are equal human beings to men”

                  Most people agree, but are not feminists, including me.

                  “because I believe men are also treated like shit under the current system of western masculinity we have going on,”

                  I’m masculine and live in the west. The system is and cannot meet the needs of everyone; however, masculinity (men) is not to blame. That view is one of the reasons most women steer clear of feminism.

                  “because I think we could work on things together so that men and women could both benefit from getting out from under some old systems that treat people in general badly.”

                  Which is one of the reasons I and many others are not feminists. There’s no “working together.” If that were the reality, the majority of women would be feminists, instead of the majority of women wanting nothing to do with the feminist movement. Most women and most men find it polarizing. Many of the articles and comments here show that to be true.

                  “Because I believe in a model of collaboration rather than one up/one down.” Good for you, but that is not consistent with the movement overall.

                  “My biggest problem today, right now, with the history of feminism? Is that they put the word “fem” in there.

                  Of course “fem” is there. Feminism is a women’s rights / women’s advancement movement, period. It achieved equal legal rights for women, which is a good thing. From the beginning to date feminism is for and about women’s interests; nothing positive to do with or say about men.

                  Not meant to be a personal criticism or attack; just the way it is, as I (and the majority of women) see it.

                • @ Julie
                  You are suspecting me for what?

                  • Julie Gillis says:

                    I answered your question, what were you confused about?

                    • The definition of feminism in Wikipedia is “Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing and defending equal political economic and social rights for women.” Everybody wants all the rights, but what about the duties that are necessary to sustain those rights. Feminists want rights without responsibility though affirmative actions and biased laws.

                    • @Rapses – are you seriously quoting Wikipedi as an authoritative source to prove what Feminism is?

                      Any idiot can edit it ! I can so easily add to it and have it read “And all feminists are made form Blue Cheese and Worship Danny Devito as an Idol make from chocolate”.

                      Any credibility you have has just vanished – you really need to get some better sources with some Rigour and Quality – because your views lack both, and you damaged yourself – no-one did it for you!

                      Nice Own Goal – Better Luck Next Time!

                      Try this Link http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9780631233176_chunk_g97814051025449_ss1-5

                    • Julie Gillis says:

                      Rapses,
                      It was a Gotcha question. You ask my my opinion then come back with your own beliefs. You and I cannot discuss things. Our world views (and if you are the same Rapses that I’ve seen at The Spearhead) appear diametrically opposite. On things like LGBT issues, family definitions, women’s issues, even I’m guessing men’s issues, it is as if we come from different planets.

              • @ Rapses “Try to keep it under 30 words”?

                Nice attempt at control there rapses – so you want to control the questions – and control the definitions and then control how many words people have to respond?

                Is there anything you don’t want to have control over? P^)

              • @ Rapses

                I have one question haunting my mind as to what qualifies you to keep asking questions of people over and over, and avoid answering questions posed to you ??

                So No More Haunting. Why Do You Do it?

                • @MediaHound
                  “Rapses loves to ask questions – he hates answering them!”
                  Yes, I love asking questions to get opinion of other people. I do not hate answering them. If you have any questions for me, please feel free to ask them. I would reply them point by point. I certainly have some bizarre ways and trust me you are neither first nor last person to point it out.
                  “Are you seriously quoting Wikipedia as an authoritative source to prove what Feminism is?”
                  Well the quotation from Wikipedia was just a passing reference to make a broad outline of the term “feminism” as it is generally presented to be. I do not rely much on single source, but it seemed more or less okay with the general understanding of the term. Even the definition given on the Blackwell online reference link (provided by you) does not differ much in the sense of what feminism is with the Wikipedia definition. Maybe you have problem with my quoting Wikipedia but the definition still stands on its own.
                  “Any credibility you have has just vanished”
                  As anonymous commenters we do not have any credibility at all, in certain opinion pieces even authors are not credible. We just present our opinions and arguments supported by evidence and citations. It is up to the people who are reading our comments to make up their own mind about our credibility. You are assuming the role of both prosecutor and judge; perhaps you have internalized the idea of presumption of male guilt. BTW, my field of work is mathematics and I am only an armchair philosopher and sociologist. But I am well aware and concerned about the developments in the society at large. “Much ado about nothing.”

                  “Nice attempt at control there rapses – so you want to control the questions – and control the definitions and then control how many words people have to respond”
                  You seem to be not noticing the chain of events here. I asked Julie what in her opinion is a feminist. Why she thinks herself as a feminist? I wished for a straight point to point answer without any rhetoric. So I requested her to keep it under 30 words. Many scientific laws are stated in much under 30 words e.g. laws of motion, Archimedes principle etc. Her response as you can see is like beating around bush. Eric M. refuted her stand in an excellent way and I completely agree with him.
                  I presented her a definition quoting from Wikipedia to which I personally agree and my objections. She could have agreed or disagreed and accepted or refuted my objections. She can choose to do whatever she likes. How can I control anybody her? Well I want to control the whole universe, but I do not have that choice.
                  “Why Do You Do it?”
                  I am a very curious person who easily gets intellectual diarrhoea when fed false assumptions and unpalatable assertions.

                  • Julie Gillis says:

                    You asked me why I was a feminist! In my own words not rhetoric. Because I believe that women are equal to men and because I want to strive for laws, policies and so forth that support both men and women as equals. As for my responsibility? I vote, I pay taxes, I participate, I listen, I work for my living, I pay bills, I participate equally as a parent. I’ve not been given extra chances (so far as I know) to get into college or jobs. No one let me take the tests more than once cause I was a silly little girl or something. My SAT, stood. My college apps in the 80’s they weren’t affirmative actioning white girls in the south I can tell you that.

                    I don’t know why any of that is “beating around the bush” as you put it. You don’t like feminism, we get it.

                  • @Julie and MediaHound
                    I admit that my question was an intellectual ambush. I am a movie buff and let me explain my position with an analogy from a famous movie:
                    “In Bruce Lee’s movie “Enter the Dragon,” the last fight scene is between Bruce Lee and the villain Han. The villain hides himself room full of mirrors where he sees many reflections of the villain and is confused. The villain knows his position but he does not know villain’s position to attack. He tries unsuccessfully to pin down Han but he cannot do it because he cannot differentiate between reflections and reality. Ultimately he breaks all the mirrors revealing the real thing (villain) and finishes him off.”
                    Now, in the case of arguing against feminism, when you call out feminists for something for outrageous comments and assertions, they loudly claim that it is not the real feminism (reflections). I want to break all these mirrors to reveal whether her feminism in real or reflection. IMHO, feminism is the evil that hides behind multiple illusions. It is real danger to the society. I want to take her a stand and defend her position without hiding behind illusions.

                    • @Julie

                      It is rather tricky situation. Let me use another analogy: I want to exorcise the evil spirit of feminism from the mind of feminists. It was in good faith, but sometimes, ends justify means.

    • Lisa Hickey says:

      I want to back Soraya up on point number 4, and a few other points. Soraya and I did talk about this post a lot before it ran. Our goal is to help solve these big, difficult to talk about issues together. To make social and cultural changes in which human beings can live lives without fear of sexual assault and abuse. To stop using sex as a weapon by anyone.

      We listen to men here, on GMP, we listen to their stories and we listen to how men think about the issues of importance. We also ask a small number of women (about 20%) to write for us about issues that affect men, and sometimes those issues also affect women. Anyone who has a problem with the way we are doing that, please take it up with me by email: lisa at goodmenproject dot com. But in the meantime, the way we can move towards a mutual understanding of the issues related to men is to find some commonality of language and actually listen to the other side as well.

      • I’m not sure the patriarchy is ever going to be a commonality of language, there are valid arguments for and against it and it really won’t fly without acceptance of female privilege. We also need to understand the aspect of power differs by culture, what goes on in Afghanistan and what goes on in Australia for instance are probably wildly different. It might help to indicate which culture we’re talking about, as I find the cultures worldwide greatly vary. There is violence I’ve received from women without others batting an eyelid that would probably get them belted up badly in other cultures.

        If we are to get a common language and understanding, we have to actually study the bad men face, the bad women face, the good men face and the good women face. Sexual abuse is a complex problem, there are no easy solutions and it will probably never be eradicated 100% but we can try damn hard at doing that but it has to be done with a very clear starting point of an unbiased definition of rape. You cannot compare rape rates between men and women by the current definition, it leaves out victims and inaccurately portrays women more worse off than men in numbers.

        As a side note I sent a potential story and author to use your way via email, let me know what you think. 🙂

      • Lisa – I agree with most of your sentiments!

        However – when an OP uses references that are so widely disputed and known to be highly contentious is such a laissez-faire manner – and even opens with a laissez-faire rhetorical question – which they then supposedly go on to answer with laissez-faire – I’m sorry, but It does not matter who writes or who edits It “Stinks”!

        I wonder why the US Government wont use the term “Rape Culture” in a single publication?

        35 Plus years and even the US Government will not use it?

        Heaven sake – they even mention the Higgs Bosson and Super String Theory and yet “Rape Culture” is not mentioned because there is no rational or structured explanation that makes sense or has any original academic citation that can be checked. It’s that – or presidents from NIxon to Obama have all been in on the biggest Patriarchal Presidential Conspiracy ever – in the oppression of women – and that makes even Area 51 and little green men look like an absolute certainty, which should be opened for Tourist Dollars as a matter of emergency.

        It’s not there for a reason!

        Why has Rape Culture suddenly exploded in to common usage and why Can’t supposed experts even say where the hell it has come from?

        Those Questions have been rather prominent round here for some months – I know because I have been asking them – and as a “Meddling Rational Archivist” looking for and even finding the answers. And I have not been laissez-faire about it either! I make sure the sources are cited – quoted and – and even illuminated and contrasted one against the other. And this site is littered with the very Question “What Is Rape Culture and where did it come from”?

        Dialogue is a two sided affair – and being laissez-faire and grossly inattentive from the first line of an OP indicates that there is no dialogue only monologue – and the history of that is already well known as are the criticisms. Maybe writers should be encouraged to consider the resources here – and even look at the information being provided and sourced? Then they can write about what they disagree with – and that would save everyone a great deal of time!

        In future I do believe that OP’s on certain subjects should appear with an simultaneous counter point – else all that exists is one writer, who can’t be bothered with facts and reality, being given a stage – and when you have writers who have a laissez-faire position on their own rectitude, it just damages the credibility of this whole project. We’ve seen that already! People have stayed about to address it and support the core values and ideals – and then this!

        Maybe the piece should have been headed “TRIGGER WARNING” – male abuse survivors note – your existence and humanity is not respected in this piece! Women And Children First – it’s a numbers game!

        “And The Band Played On!” http://youtu.be/g5vJa1LnSEY

        As the video shows “Terms Of Reference Have Value” – and so does a Noun!

        • Lisa Hickey says:

          Hey MediaHound,
          You know I am always thankful for your attention to detail and careful questions, especially around language. We are running some additional posts around this issue, thanks!

          • Lisa – I would actually prefer Soraya Chemaly to address my specific concerns in the following post.

            http://goodmenproject.com/gender-sexuality/rape-culture-men-women-power/comment-page-3/#comment-91590

            As editor you have one responsibility – but as the author Soraya Chemaly does have quite another from a “Privileged” position.

            To cite one source that is known to be riddled with inaccuracy and bias and then defend it by deferring to a higher quality source – it is totally unacceptable. It is reprehensible and to be met with Unbridled Opprobrium – and as you have acknowledged, I choose my words with care and an very quick to pick up less than valid usage!

            You did not do defend misuse of references as Editor – She did as OP. You have no culpability in the misconduct that is beyond Infuriating!

            You may have guessed that myself and others are unhappy. Under the very clear circumstances, nothing other than dialogue concerning the errors that have been perpetrated should be acceptable – and the person who has to be in that dialogue is not you. Else – all the posts concerning how Dialogue and respect for others points of view are so important have been sham.

            It’s That Good Man Thing – and that being a Person Of Honour and Accountability is a 100% of the time thing – with no part time option!

            Maybe that has to be the standard of having people contribute as OPs – so that they don’t run away when their errors cause so much distress, anguish, dispute and damage! They consider why, and act both responsibly and respectfully – and even Promptly!

            Even – “Oh you have a point, I’m busy but will get back to you,” would be a Valid Response! … with valid and on point communication at their Earliest Convenience.

      • Lisa,

        It’s pretty hard to find any commonality with a person who tells victims of rape by women that “Only men can stop rape. She either explicitly dismiss and denies what happened to me or she at best denies that the woman who did rape me could have refrained from doing that. Surely it’s understandable that I find her assurances that she thinks all rape is horrible sounds hollow and insincere in light of that. And statements like “specter of women raping men” just cements the impression that this is no person who have any empathy for male victims because while she at times seem to acknowledge them she is just as quick to remove that acknowledgement and replace it with active erasure.

        I asked her in a comment if she could tell me how I or any other man could’ve stopped that women from starting to have intercourse with me while I was asleep or why that woman couldn’t herself refrain from doing so. I suspect I won’t be getting any answers because it’s an untenable position. She is smart enough to know that, but didn’t manage to muster enough empathy to refrain from writing that only men can stop rape.

        I hope people involved in editing this piece take a moment to reflect on how and why they let that particular sentence (Only men can stop rape) slip through. Do you have a blind spot?

        • Lisa Hickey says:

          Hi Tamen — your points are good. I take responsibility for letting that line go through. I don’t have a blind spot because I think it is true, I have a blind spot because what we are trying to do here is create a community site where all voices can be heard — but organized in a way to fit under that umbrella of “what does it mean to be a good man in the 21st century?” This is a huge initiative and we don’t have the resources to edit every sentence of every piece.

          What we would like is for people to understand that it is real people — OUR community — writing these posts. They are trying to respect the rest of the community as best they can. We are asking the commenting community to do the same. Understand that someone says something as an individual because we think that issue is worth talking about. As publishers and editors, we try to frame those issues as best as we can, so they make sense within our core mission. So in this case, I did have long phone conversations with Soraya to get to a piece that explained what was meant by rape culture. Obviously, that sentence was a hot button, and I apologize for the implication that Good Men Project itself thinks that is true.

          We are not like a traditional media company where everything comes from the voice of the organization itself — but we are also not a strictly “user generated site” (like YouTube or Reddit) — where the ALL the content is 100% community driven. We strive to be the best combination of both — issues that our community finds important around the issues of “What does it mean to be a good man in this day and age?” Obviously, that idea can be talked about from multiple angles. That is our goal.

          I empathize with what happened to you, and GMP does not want to minimize or marginalize any of those experiences, although I can see how that sentence would imply that. Again, apologies for that.

          • Hi Lisa.
            I am heartened to see a response to the point from you. You made your stance regarding that sentence unequivocally clear. Thank you for that.

            I made the comment because you did say you talked with the author about the article prior to publication and although I understand that the views put forth by the authors are not necessarily the same as any of the editor’s view I thought that an editorial process implies that you in some way can and do influence the article’s final form. I assumed that if you saw that sentence you would think it was problematic and that it would be an issue brought up during that editorial process. I also understand that things which goes against everything one is taught to believe can go by unnoticed. The litmus test is how one reacts when it is pointed out – hence the comment about the blind spot.

            My experience with editorial processes constrains itself to writing a software system for facilitating the workflow for that process in a national medical journal. I see that my knowledge of that process might have influenced my understanding of how your editorial process works.

            Are you saying that you don’t discuss and suggests changes to contentious parts of the published articles during the editorial process?

            • Lisa Hickey says:

              Tamen, thanks for asking. When we first started The Good Men Project, we set ourselves up like a traditional magazine — we had an Editor-in-Chief who oversaw everything, and who managed a team of editors underneath him. We got most of our content for free, but also paid for a few pieces that were written by journalists, edited and fact-checked according to strict editorial guidelines such as those used at the NYTimes and other mass media companies. That model, while it worked to get consistently well-written, thoughtful content out there, was unsustainable as a business model. We were putting time (and therefore $’s) into every piece that we simply could not gain back through advertising revenue. (currently our main source of revenue). In fact, the amount that it cost us to produce one piece of content that way was between 10 and 20 times the amount we could make in revenue.

              So last June, we switched to an “Evangelist” model. We don’t pay for any content, and we have myself and one managing editor. We post 6-10 pieces of content a day. We deal with 5,000 comments a month. We have 368 contributor evangelists in this model, and in return for writing for us for free, we give them help with stories ideas, writing tips, ideas to grow their own social media platform and a network of engaged people who share their values. We get 1.2 pageviews a month. We need to deal with the press (like CNN) who asks for opinions and stories. We need to deal with technology issues, advertising issues and make sure we make enough money to survive. And we need to edit.

              All of that is done with 2 full-time employees — me, and Ryan, our managing editor. Tom is a very trusted advisor, great content contributor, founder and strategic thinker. But he is not involved in the day-to-day on any of this. So that falls upon me, as publisher, to make sure all of the above gets done. Every day.

              For our contributors — we look for people who agree with our vision of “sparking an international discussion about what it means to be a good man in the 21st century.” It is the phrase “Good Man” which is interesting. That phrase itself has two binaries — “Good” (which implies vs. bad) and “Men” (which implies vs. women).

              The fact that “Good Man” is a double binary leads us down the path of having very provocative conversations around issues that are often polarizing. Combine that with the fact that we don’t have a paid editorial staff, and sometimes words get missed. Sometimes those words are inflammatory words. But the alternative would be to have a much much much slower conversation because we simply couldn’t post as much content. And then the small amount of money we do make would be even smaller. And there would be a good chance we couldn’t survive.

              Any thoughts on how we could do things better are always welcome.

        • Tamen

          The usage and contrasting of content also acts to marginalise:

          “And, of course, there is Penn State. Wonder how adults shield child rapists and perfectly nice boys play rape games? These examples are rape culture manifest. If you are not sure what rape culture looks like, this is it: sexual violence—overwhelmingly against girls and women—tolerated, excused and normalized through attitudes, norms, practices, and media.”

          So first it’s Penn State and Male Rape of Children is Rape Culture made Manifest – and in the next sentence the “Overwhelming Trope” is used to just dismiss it and marginalise. It’s also the “It’s an exceptional case at Penn State Trope” – and “Oh it’s just one institution with failings Trope” and even “It was just a few boys Trope”.

          Pity it wasn’t mentioned that the most likely place for a child to be raped is The Home. It seems that Media just distorts reality – and presentation goes out the window.

          There is no “Rational” reason for the “Overwhelming Trope” to be there other than to induce and emphasise bias and to marginalise!

          Combine that with the “Crime Is Overwhelmingly Gender Based” just makes it worse! Which Crime is overwhelmingly gender based – Murder? Gun Crime? Actually None Sexual Child Abuse is gender based when you look at the figures – and it is NOT the male gender at issue. “Child Abuse Culture” gets no mention and the victims there are both ale and female.

          That the CDC have so recently published ( their much delayed for political reasons ) a report which is the first Government Based National survey which shows that such Gender Myths have to be re-evaluated in their entirety, just gets missed.

          This is comical:

          “Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape.”

          Shouldn’t that read “Rape under any circumstances, regardless of who the perpetrator is and the sex or age of the victim, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only “WE” can stop rape.”

          To say anything else is to deny the Reality and Totality of Rape – and yet it opens with that abusive rhetorical question “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?”.

          What idea – a Narrow minded self serving world view – or REALITY? Even on a Global Scale.

          Victim Blaming – Trivialising victims experiences, directly or indirectly. Victim blaming occurs when the victim(s) of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment are held entirely or partially responsible for the transgressions committed against them. Blaming the victim has traditionally emerged especially in racist and sexist forms.

          Well this piece did a hell of a lot of Trivialising which was both Blatantly Direct and Subversively Indirect.

          Anyone who either directly or indirectly dismisses any single rape survivor of any age or sex/gender is acting as a rape apologist and manifesting the worst aspects of the concept of “Rape Culture”.

          Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture? No – Not really – This piece just proves how it is made manifest in so many ways by people who really should know better!

        • I have to agree with Tamen, her saying “Only men can stop rape” really made me wonder about bigotry. I’ve tried for a while to understand why someone would say that but to me it really feels like she isn’t accepting female responsibility. It actually hurts to hear only men can end abuse when I know for a fact it’s not only men perpetrating it, it’s quite unfair to dump ALL responsibility on men to end it. Even if only 1% of rapes were by women, that still means women have responsibility to not rape along with men, every human has a responsibility to ensure safety in this world where they can.

    • I think part of the issue with the “patriarchy” example is we’re living in a time where those issues are changing fast and have already changed quite heavily. Also the power men have over women is under question, with women having the majority vote in America now by 8million if other comments are correct and much of consumer spending controlled by women (as in power of supporting media by purchases) many are left wondering how much extra power men have.

      Where does violence fit in, if women and men both suffer terribly from violence. From what I see males suffer 4x to 6x the deaths in violence, women tend to be sexually abused more (although the bias in stats leaves me feeling it’s not something to compare until we study all forms of what people believe is rape). Does this increased level of violence cause a different but equally powerful level of oppression against men even if by other men? There are men raped in war as well as women, these things make me question just how much rape is about oppressing and controlling women, or if it’s oppressing and controlling humans.

      Not sure if my comment on huffypost showed up but basically pages 18, 19, and 24 of the CDC report have the statistics we’re using, the 1.1% in last 12 months stats. Page 24 has the 79.2% of male “forced to penetrate” victims stating female attackers and other info related to female abuse of males. I’ve heard the CDC stats regarded as the first report to truly address the bias (although not fully), and I truly hope further studies remove all bias and simply count all rape, envelopment and penetration, studying both males and females of all ages and races, countries if possible, even age and gender of attacker/s would be useful in building a good dataset of rape.

      Could you post the pages in question and which exact stat you were using from the department of justice? I will look at it tomorrow morning if possible, I’ve only seen some of the CDC report which is what I’m calling into dispute. If you do admit to the limitations and bias in statistics due to their definition, why do you compare the genders?

      Thank-you though for replying, there are other questions I hope to see a reply for but is it great to see you discussing it with us. The discussion is quite important for all of us to try understand each other of course. I do think most of us actually want the same thing, rape to end, but there’s possibly an element on each “side” that don’t fully grasp the severity of the other. What’s clear to me that rape is very high for both, but I don’t want the rape debate to be portrayed as mostly female victims IF there are a large proportion of male victims too. I do hope you read those CDC stats and comment or even write about it in your next article of the last 12 months stats, would be nice to get your thoughts on why 40% of rapists in the last 12 months were female for that stat? Need sleep, thanks for the reply.

      • Archy, I spoke with Dr. Black at the Department of Justice to verify numbers and review methodology. Please refer to two specific tables: Table 44 and Table 38. I just tried to insert them here but it failed. I am comparing genders because I think it is valid to look at rape in the context that I bring up which is one of persistent oppression ranging from infant gendercide, bride burning, acid baths, genital mutilation, rape as a tactic of war, etc. I think your point about war and violence is well-taken, which is why 16Days of Awareness campaign this year focused on reducing militarism. If you have a problem with finding these tables, I can send them to Lisa. I really do empathize with the plight of male victims and believe that what we will now see, as a result of some of these changes in definition, is that they too will become subject to the same level of mythologizing and dismissal that traditionally have plagued female victims (hence the HuffPost piece, which BTW was written after this one even though it posted first). As for the 12 month status, I will look into it, but having spoken to Dr. Black who was pretty definite about the 99% stat for single offender rapes (as defined by the CDC) I am not sure how these differ but will find out.

        • Thank-you. Might want to ask Dr Black to clarify on whether envelopment/forced to penetrate is included in rape. The 12 month stat for male victims is under “Other Sexual Assault”, and is called “Forced to penetrate” so it isn’t included at all under the rape stats. This is why many of us are annoyed and feel it’s biased, as it leaves out a large chunk of male victimization and I personally don’t like comparing the stats either until rape is defined much better. As it stands, the mechanics of sex and men being the vast majority of penetrators, it means they will be the majority of people who forcibly penetrate someone which they consider rape. If you could also ask Dr Black why envelopment/forced to penetrate isn’t included as rape in the definitions by the FBI and themselves, that would be great.

          Can you send the tables to Lisa and the exact report name, I have the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey – 2010 Summary Report, 124 pages long available here ht tp://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/index.html – Full Report, 4.2MB PDF file.

          BTW I don’t want anyone to use what I am saying as a means to minimize the harm on women or men, even with my definition of rape there are still more male rapists and female rape victims, in the last 12 months it becomes a much closer to parity, 40% female, 60% male rapists from what I gather and equal levels of victims. I think the entire world needs to start hearing this, it should make people far more aware and get people talking about consent and get people to question their beliefs of rape to end the mythology. Either way the stats are highly alarming and everyone needs to be aware of the full depth of them.

    • 5. Arguing about rape culture. Yes, I did cite Wikipedia because, quite frankly it is a good summary. However, here are some books I have read and sources that might be useful for anyone interested in where this viewpoint comes from.

      I see – so you provide citation to stats – and citation to books – and a link to Wikipedia?

      Have you NOTED the long and very Extensive dispute over the source you linked to?

      Do you have an original Citation for “Rape Culture™”? A source – academic paper – book – even a single person who is claiming that they coined the “Compound Noun” and they know what it means?

      Wikipedia now have have this to say –

      ” The exact date and context of the first use of the term ‘rape culture’ are uncertain; however, it is thought that it originated around 1975. Several different theories exist as to its origin:

      A 1975 documentary film, Rape Culture, produced and directed by Margaret Lazarus and Renner Wunderlich for Cambridge Documentary Films, discussed prison rape in the context of a larger cultural normalization of rape.[2] In 2000, Lazarus stated that she believed the movie was the first use of the term.[3] Although the film discussed mainly male-on-male rape in prisons, modern feminist theory uses a broader definition of rape culture that includes non-prison society as well.”

      I do have to wonder why men of color in prison just got brushed out of the way for son long – what’s 36 years amongst friends – “Prisoners Against Rape Inc” founded 1974, supported by the DC Rape Crisis Centre and the Protagonists of “Rape Culture™” The Movie – the first known usage of the very Term.

      I do hope that some people’s essentialist privilege has not been motivated to brush aside some men because they were from a racially minority – or many just prisoners – or maybe just men – or maybe it’s because they were being raped and some just didn’t care!

      In future Check Your References before asking a Rhetorical Question – “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?”.

      Doubt What? The Validity of a spurious inaccurate Wiki page – or the reality of how people have been abused by the misuse of the term since 1975 and so many supposed intelligent bloggers can’t be bothered to check the facts?

      Your response – is Insulting. If you actually engaged in dialogue you may have more credibility!

      Nice Try – No Cigar!

    • David Byron says:

      Well that was better. I didn’t have to quit reading on line one due to offensive sexist language. You did repeat the offensive phrase “rape culture” however, even after I informed you that it was offensive. Perhaps that sort of sensitivity is part of why you feel there’s a “lack of a common language”? You also used the word “patriarchy”, another offensive and sexist word, but I guess that was fine because in your sole opinion it’s not offensive at all. Guess men don’t have a right to an opinion about what offends them because they have feminists to tell them.

      Well at least you came back to defend your article against a largely hostile audience. That shows integrity and some care about your words so I applaud that.

      Rape of women around the world is a tool of widespread gender oppression.</bllockquote.
      But your thesis is just ridiculous. When women are getting raped their male counterparts are getting raped and then murdered. That is if you mean treatment during genocidal war. Well war is hell they say, even without the genocide. In peace time men get raped as policy in US jails, albeit done with deniability, using other prisoners, unlike US jails in Iraq where rape of men was carried out by the custodians directly. The fact is if you said everything you're saying about male victims you might have a leg to stand on, but as it is, you're just being extremely silly.

  8. The Bad Man says:

    First line with a link to wiki (LOL) and a feminist writer on a men’s site. I stopped reading.

  9. Sick to death of the censorship here. If you want a feminist echo chamber the least you could do is be honest about it.

    A week ago I was considering submitting a story about sexual abuse and it’s disastrous impact on three generations of one extended family. The writing is done. The trust is gone.

    • Ginkgo (Jim) says:

      Gwallan, we’ll post it at Genderattic. Come see us there and we’ll work out the technical stuff

    • David Byron says:

      What do you mean? You submitted an article?
      If you didn’t bother to submit who’s fault is it there’s no anti-feminist articles?

    • Lisa Hickey says:

      What censorship are you talking about gwallan? We do not allow direct attacks on authors or other commenters. Most comments get held for moderation, especially if they have trigger words. But as far as I can tell, almost all of yours go through.

    • I also had written an article relate to rape culture, slut walk etc and was wondering whether I should submit it or not, this article of Soraya made me so angry that I decided to submit it immediately. Keeping quiet was not an option. As they say “don’t get mad, get even.”

      • Rapses – I submitted an article on the Origins and History of “Rape Culture™” 2 weeks ago – Long before this OP appeared.

        Having waited and having been asked repeatedly by commenters here to submit articles dealing with the issue and having received only an automated response for the GMP submission engine – well I was not longer willing to stand by.

        http://goodmenproject.com/gender-sexuality/rape-culture-men-women-power/comment-page-1/#comment-91087

        You can also just click on me Profile link and You can read the article and all related materials at a blog not so far from you!

        Anyone who I see Dismissing Male Rape or abusing Rape Culture™ again will be sent to do their home work first!

        I have also been so enraged I now have made it a personal mission to have the Wikipedia entry corrected and made 100% accurate and neutral – and I have already been told I’m impertinent for doing that. It got changed 3 times just yesterday and it’s now internally contradictory and so needs to be redrafted – AGAIN!

        “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
        George Bernard Shaw

        … and some wonder why I have publicly stated I have been obliged to shift form a Centrist Equality Stance to a view that “”Affirmative Action””, something I actually disagree with, is now the only option and for me a Moral Obligation!

        Never Never Pee Off An Unreasonable Man!

        • @MediaHound

          Keep up the good work. I wish I could help you in this matter.

          • Rapses – you can just keep an eye on the Wiki page, and if you find any other pages that are less than accurate and neutral let us know.

            I’m not interested in inciting riots and discord, but I will not stand by where such matters as a highly inaccurate, misleading and systemically biased source I can address is being used to manipulate and abuse people.

            It’s that 100% man of principle thing, where there is no part time option.

  10. Soraya,

    I have to say that I find your use of the terminology “disproportionate” when referring to living, breathing rape survivors as quite disgusting. So, more men and boys need to be raped for their traumas to matter seems to be the point. You don’t speak for all rape survivors and you certainly don’t speak for me as a rape survivor. You do not have my permission to minimize, downgrade or otherwise alienate ANY SURVIVORS.

    Let me make it clear since you seem not to understand. THERE IS NO PROPER PROPORTION FOR ANYONE TO GET RAPED.

    As rape is an abomination and utter attack on person’s self-sovereignty and security, any time a person is raped it is COMPLETELY OUT OF PROPORTION as there is no reasonable proportion for anyone to be raped.

    The fact that I need to spell this out demonstrates an empathy fail on an epic scale on your part.

    Really?

    • Your preaching to the deaf!

      Soraya only responds to people who say nice things about her! Anyone who contradicts her or points out error or even basic lack of humanity gets ignored. The only rational way to deal with such people is remove the sources of ignorance and error!

      • The cynic in me expects her to write another article deploring the “MRA’S” dismissing her article, deflecting the horrors of how many women suffer to shift focus to the “few” men who suffer and a pile of other antagonistic garbage that a few feminist bloggers seem to enjoy doing.

        I haven’t seen her reply to many comments here, only one I think, and it makes me wonder if she really cares or is just trying to hit-n-run slam women’s suffering in our face on a site about men. We get it, women suffer from rape, but stop ignoring so many men pointing out valid stats and biases, address them, talk about it, work together with men to help lower or end rape. Regardless of what some think, women do NOT own victimization of rape and these countless articles similar to this one really do feel like they want to be the top victim and anything else is heresy. It’s extremely offensive, and shocking to see such blatant hypocrisy (minimizing the reality of rape after saying this is a rape culture tactic) and bias (read every comment here and you’ll see).

        • Archy – you only have to look elsewhere and see how this OP was cobbled together with spinets from other blogs. There was little consideration of audience or content. And no consideration for comment either. That’s three C’s.

          If there is a response it will have to require some writing and thinking and not just Ctrl C and Ctrl V, and it would need to be three A’s. Attitude, Attribution and Audience.

          I doubt there will be a response and if there is it will probably as poorly considered as so much else! … and you thought you were Cynical? P^)

  11. I have to say that I have become increasing “infuriated” by recent posts – and I have grown overly tired of the “Overwhelming” Trope.

    The Numbers (Quantitative Argument) over Quality (suffering) argument is at times just too abusive to bear.

    I have said that I have a long standing history of AIDS/HIV activism – and in relation to that back at the start in the 1980′s the same arguments got trotted out from governments and businesses. It reminded me of a film called “And The Band Played On” – reference the band on the Titanic who played as the ship sank.

    In the film one of the characters got so angry over the messing about he blew his top during a meeting ( it happened in real life ) and shammed many to stop the messing about. There is a clip of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vJa1LnSEY

    As he said “How many dead Haemophiliacs do you need? How many people have to die to make it cost efficient for you people to do something about it? 100? 1000? Give is a number so we won’t annoy you again until the amount of money you are spending on Law Suits makes it more profitable to save people than to kill them.”

    Quantity? Quality?

    I think it’s time to just rebut all future Quantitative Argument with the Phrase – “And The Band Played On” with a link to that clip – then people can explain how it makes them feel to be treated as a Quantitative Number and not a Quality Human Being.

    It was found to be disgusting and it became Morally Reprehensible when it was AIDS/HIV – and yet it is seen as acceptable for that same argument and all the related insinuations that Because More Women Get raped that the rape of a man is QUALITATIVELY less. Men who have been sexually abused by men or women are routinely treated as QUALITATIVELY less.

    I have heard it said that Men do not get raped and murdered as the QUALITATIVE poker was played – and yet I have been the person who has been there dealing with the aftermath of both the rape and murder of a man!

    So from now on – any person who dismiss the QUALITATIVE experience of men and argues QUANTATIVE as ms Soraya Chemaly has – they will be reminded of what it is Like “As The Band Plays On”, and just how antisocial, rude and abusive such conduct was in the 1980’s – and they will be asked if they wish to change their attitude and return!

    Should they not – the only answer has to be “And The band Played On” – Women and Children First!

    When the Titanic sank there were too few life boats and too few seats. What is the excuse today?

    Tell us what to do so that we don’t annoy you – and give us the QUALITATIVE barrier that even one man has to exceed so that he is not a number but a Human Being!

    • Julie Gillis says:

      Thank you for this Media Hound.

      • Don’t worry – Wikipedia is having to update it’s entries and will be obliged to until such time as they are accurate.

        If people want references they can have them – but I will bloody well make sure they are accurate so they can’t be used to abuse even once more!

        If people want to know about “Rape Culture™” then they can at least give credit to the people who coined the phrase – and “Prisoners Against Rape” the men of Lorton Prison who were the focus and reason for the “term” being created in the 1975 film “Rape Culture”.

        • It fascinates me to no end that people like Soraya are using the phrase “rape culture” to invalidate and minimize (and sometimes mock) the experiences of male rape survivors, yet the terminology was created specifically to help those behind bars.

          This speaks volumes about those engaged in such. They’ve stolen the concept and completely erased the victims and survivors it was meant to help.

          Ugh.

          Double Ugh.

          Triple Ugh.

          • Don’t worry James – the wiki page has been changed three time today to deal with the errors and now they have to go back to basics as it’s all internally contradictory.

            They have to either make it all gender neutral else produce a full and valid history of change or mark it all as disputed. Sort of makes all of The OP’s premise starting with a rhetorical question linked to a quackery reference – well mute!

            You should also look at me Gravatar web link! … and YouTube is paying the movies!

            Some are still scratching their heads as to whether “Rape Culture™” is a term or a concept!

            The Concept could end up gender neutral and the term … well, just a lesser issue.

            • The Bad Man says:

              Good luck, I’m going to watch this wiki battle. From previous experience, I’m not optimistic.

              • Oh I am Optimistic!

                If the editors don’t act on the evidence and sources provided I will.

                If they then object – it will go all the way. I’m no expert in Wiki layout – but I am when it comes to getting the wording right!

                Have you seen the latest source?

                “Rape Culture – Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology

                Joyce Williams

                Extract – Rape culture is a concept of unknown origin and of uncertain definition; yet it has made its way into everyday vocabulary and is assumed to be commonly understood.

                The award-winning documentary film Rape Culture made by Margaret Lazarus in 1975 takes credit for first defining the concept. ”
                http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9781405124331_yr2011_chunk_g978140512433124_ss1-19

                Now who were the central Protagonists of the film? “Prisoners Against Rape” – Male Prisoners, Lorton Prison Virginia. Why have they been made to vanish from history?

                Because they were Men?
                Because they were Prisoners?
                Because they were Addressing Rape In Prison?
                Or – Because they were Men Of Colour?

                Maybe it’s all of the above?

    • Tell us what to do so that we don’t annoy you – and give us the QUALITATIVE barrier that even one man has to exceed so that he is not a number but a Human Being!
      this is so damn powerful MH. excellent point, excellent point

    • “Rape culture is a term which originated in women’s studies and feminist theory, ”

      Shocker.

  12. Henry Vandenburgh says:

    I don’t believe that older women having sex with younger men is “monstrous.” Actually, the idea of an older man initiating a young woman isn’t either, but I think we’re some distance away from that one– because of the notion that it’s always exploitative.

    • How is one form exploitative and the other isn’t?

      I just don’t get it. Power dynamics? That would imply every male and every boy has power over a woman.

      Rape Culture?

      Somebody please give me a straight answer because I’m tearing my hair out here.

      • Maybe he has such a low opinion of women (ie misogyny) he must find it hard to believe that women can do harm or have any power at all?

        You know women are so weak and pathetic they can’t have an affect on anything?
        As soon as you internalize the view that women are equal to men the idea of women having no agency and not being able to do anything wrong seems sexist. What happens when society changes and the only people left who think women are weak are feminists?

        I can’t give a straight answer though

        • Henry Vandenburgh says:

          Do you mean me by “he?” In a supportive society, this whole notion of age inappropriate sex would go away (past puberty, that is.) The Twin Oaks Commune has no problem with age differences, for example. I’m not particularly misogynist, but I am sex-positive. I was responding originally to the author’s idea that older woman – younger man sex is “monstrous.” I think victim-algebra has run its course. Support agency by everyone.

          • Peter Houlihan says:

            I dunno, I think theres alot to be said for giving adolescants a safe space to explore their sexuality before becoming “fair game”

            • Henry Vandenburgh says:

              Peter, I don’t think anyone should be “game.” It’s almost a better idea (this is cynical, I’ll admit) to expose younger women to men at least mature enough not to treat them like ____. But, sure, many younger people will prefer someone their own age– and that’s great. Adolescence is an artificial stage that doesn’t exist in all societies.

          • I meant no offense and hope you don’t take it that way. It was just a train of thought i had.

          • But the notion of age inappropriate sex hasn’t gone away, Henry. It illustrates an extreme double standard.

            Older men who have relationships with young women are labeled perverts.

            Younger men who have relationships with older women are seen as lucky and a real man.

            • MorgainePendragon says:

              “Older men who have relationships with young women are labeled perverts.”

              I don’t see this interfering at all in the numbers of May-December romances and marriages. It’s still much more the “norm” than younger men-older women.

              “Younger men who have relationships with older women are seen as lucky and a real man.”

              But how are the older WOMEN perceived? You’re comparing apples with fruit bats.

      • Peter Houlihan says:

        As I read that he was saying that not every instance of a young person having sex with an older person is exploitative, but I agree that it was very hard to read.

        • The problem Peter is that we say not every young person having sex with an older person is exploitative only when applying it to boys and older women.

          Wheras the other way around, older men with younger women, they’re treated like molesters and perverts.

    • What do you mean by “older” and “younger”?

  13. Peter Houlihan says:

    How I felt reading this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCCXTVmSbgw

    Where to even start? Should I bother considering that this will be buried on page 5 of rebuttles. Oh well, point by point I guess.

    “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?” Yes.

    “On any given day you can, if you chose, participate in an entertaining and informative pop culture rape happening.”

    No, on any given day I can joke about rape and possibly even play video games about rape (I don’t). The fact that this is considered alot *less* acceptable than joking about murder, playing violent and murderous video games and using phrases that include the word murder (Work is really killing me at the moment) shows how rape is the most *reviled* crime out there, not the most condoned. If I tell a joke involving someone being killed noone accuses me of making light of murder.

    “These examples are rape culture manifest. If you are not sure what rape culture looks like, this is it: sexual violence—overwhelmingly against girls and women—tolerated, excused and normalized through attitudes, norms, practices, and media.”

    As we being to examine sexual violence against men we are increasingly finding that sexual violence against women is only overwhelmingly against girls and women when it is defined in such a way that only sexual violence against girls and women counts. Rape is not tolerated, excused or normalised in any meaningful or widespread way through attitudes, norms practices or media. As above its one of the most reviled crimes a person can commit (provided that they’re male). We joke, play games about, watch films containing and read books about murder and other violent crimes all the time. Why is this never labelled “murder culture”? Rape culture theory would be alot more credible if it applied its logic to all crimes, instead of ones traditionally considered only to happen to women.

    “It is hard to get people to acknowledge the startling reality of rape or to even imagine a world where rape isn’t happening at the rate of once every two minutes in the course of a regular day in the US. There are lots of ways that we talk about rape that perpetuate myths or diffuse the reality of what is an overwhelmingly gendered crime, the threat and reality of which vastly disproportionately affects women.”

    About 45 murders are committed each day in the US, a crime which disproportionately affects men. I don’t claim that this is because the murderers out there heard a joke about killing someone or saw a film depicting someone being killed. I also don’t claim that murder is a man’s issue.

    “That does NOT mean that all men are rapists. The only people who think all men are rapists are, well, rapists. ”

    Rapists, quite a few feminists, the justice system, social workers and many other institutions of society consider men to be basicly rapists. I’m glad to hear you think otherwise.

    “I’m also not saying that women don’t rape and sexually abuse children. Sexual assault of children, girls and boys, are part of rape culture, which is defined by its cultivation of specific, violent, male sexual aggression. ”

    Do you realise that those two sentences are completely contradictory? First you claim that you accept the reality of female abusers, then you claim that this is part of a phenomenon caused only by *male* sexual aggression. Are you suggesting that women only rape because they’ve been victimised by men? Or that women only rape when they become manlike in their sexual attitudes? How hard is it for you to accept that women can be and are abusive without tacking it to masculinity somehow?

    “Saying that sexual violence affects girls and women disproportionately does not mean that boys’ and men’s experiences of assault and rape are in any way less relevant or horrific.”

    Glad to hear you think so, but pretending they almost never happen is just as damaging.

    “In statistical terms, however, right now, while data on female sexual assault is hard to gather and verify for reasons listed below,”

    You admit that data on female sexual assault is hard to gather and verify, and then fall back on statistics that are almost certainly warped by this fact.

    “it’s exactly like pointing out that some men get breast cancer every time the subject of women’s breast cancer fatalities comes up.”

    It would be exactly the same, if any of the following were true:
    -If we lived in a culture where breast cancer was legally defined as something that only happened to women
    -If studies examining breast cancer routinely ignored, covered up, denied or were structured not to find male instances of breast cancer
    -If male breast cancer was almost never taken seriously, whether in the context of humour or not.
    -If studies examining breast cancer that *did* examine male breast cancer were increasingly finding that men suffer from breast cancer at a similar rate to women.
    -If there was a massive cultural bias encouraging male victims of breast cancer to suffer in silence and cover up their illness for fear of being ridiculed on the basis that men don’t suffer from breast cancer.
    Other than those minor differences, perfect analogy.

    “According to the CDC study, in the US, between 1% and 2% of men have been raped or experienced an attempted rape, often by an intimate partner, almost always male, (many when they were younger than 11) compared to 20% of women.
 That 1-2% is a total – not just those where there may be female perpetrators.”

    You’ve just pointed out that these statistics are flawed, so I feel free to disregard them.

    “It’s because a) our culture doesn’t like admitting male weakness, b) it is rarely reported and/or c) it is actually comparatively rare. Interestingly, the breakdown for multiple offender crimes is different: 59% male, 12.9% female and 22.9% male/female combined.”

    A and B are a self fulfilling prophecy of C. Whats your point? You’ve already admitted, twice now, that these statistics are almost certainly wrong. Why do you go on citing them?

    “Our news media has been filled, sadly, in recent years by stories of boys being raped by priests, coaches and other trusted adults. But these reports, which highlight the vulnerability of boys, is disproportionate considering female rape as part of a pandemic spectrum of sexual violence against girls and women, which typically begins at adolescence and, unlike the abuse of boys, does not taper down after adolescence.”

    No, its drawing attention to systematic widespread abuse that was largely considered by society not to exist. Also, if you haven’t seen the widespread coverage of female rape in the news I don’t know what rock you’ve been hiding under on which planet. Rape, of men or women, is one of the most reported crimes out there. I suppose DSK doesn’t count?

    “This isn’t dismissing boys’ abuse or adult male victimization,”

    Yes it is, you’re saying it doesn’t really happen all that often.

    “only pointing out a bias in coverage that incorporates typical approaches to “debunking” rape realities and perpetuating rape myths.”

    What myths? Be specific. Are you angry that newscasters aren’t reporting that rape jokes cause rape?

    “The exact same culture that supports rape myths and apologies related to victim blaming, defining consent, accusing women of lying”

    Sometimes victims do foolish things, this is not victim blaming, its information about how to take care of yourself. Consent needs to be defined. Some women do lie about rape.

    “contribute to the difficulty of getting accurate information about boys being victimized. Here are some ways that the rape experiences of boys and men are specifically denied, ignored and hidden”

    No they don’t. What contributes to the difficulty in examining male victimisation is the insistance that it doesn’t happen, especially not at the hands of women. The reporting of scandals such as Penn State and Clerical sex abuse has been instrumental in changing attitudes in this regard. You, on the other hand, seem to see reporting of such events and debunking of such myths only as a minimisation of the experience of your own group. In the words of protesters outside rape trials world wide “shame on you.”

    “—not by feminism—but by sexism, misogyny and the application of heteronormative standards:”

    Yes, by some feminists and some feminist theory, but you’re right that this is sexist. I find it bewildering that you consider the victimisation of men and boys to constitute misogyny. I have to ask, do you have any idea what that word means? Again, you’re speaking out against heteronormative standards with one breath and then speaking in favour of them with the next. The idea that only females are really victimised sexually on any kind of scale, and only males victimise on any kind of scale, is heteronormative. Its practically a defining feature of heteronormativity.

    “Traditionally, and I use that word very specifically, rape has been considered part of a natural order, in other words, the normal consequence of how men and women are built. In this scenario, women are passive, weak and often temptresses; men are physically strong, violently sexual and unable to help themselves when provoked. This definition of sexuality, which by the way is an essential component of abstinence-only “sex ed,” is narrow and results in a restrictive, forcible, male-on-female definition of rape. It certainly doesn’t allow for boys to be victims, certainly not at the hands of women or even of adult men. As Advocates for Youths points out: “Male victimization is particularly hard to estimate due to beliefs that only girls can be abused; that sex between older women and boys is desirable; that male victimization of boys indicates lack of masculinity and/or acquiescence by the child.” Gender stereotypes in the employ of sexism and misogyny are to blame for that. Not feminists fighting against rape culture.”

    Rape has never been considered part of the natural order, in fact “unnatural” is a word I’ve heard used to describe it quite often. Again, the idea that men can’t be victims and women can’t be rapists is sexism, but how you’ve come to the conclusion that its misogynistic is beyond me. Would it kill you to use the word “misandry”? Other than that, excellent point, except that the rest of the article is dedicated to denying it.

    “Sexual assault of children by women is underreported because patriarchal, cultures don’t like admitting that women can be sexually motivated or use sex to wield power in aggressive and monstrous ways.”

    The term “Patriarchy” is mired in this world view. Patriarchy paints a picture of absolute male power and female frailty. If you acknowlege female power and the ability of females to be victimisers then why on earth would you use a term that only refers to male power?

    “That would mean admitting that some women are more “like men,” not the champions of a higher morality, not weaker, not all naturally more “nurturing.” That’s a lot of subversive information if you want to highlight how vulnerable and dependent women are. In addition, in the same environments, boys grow up knowing that to be weak or powerless in particularly when the aggressor is female is a big no-no.”

    I absolutely agree with this excerpt, its a major problem in cultures still reliant on traditional gender roles. Its also a major problem with the vast majority of feminist dialogues, including, it would seem, your own.

    “Lastly, as Hugo Schwyzer pointed out here—which was one of the catalysts to huge controversy, men should be angry—not at feminists for describing rape culture, but at rape culture’s insistence on a vile definition of male sexuality that has violence at its core and that makes suspicion of all man the only rational approach to safety.”

    Ok, firstly, many proponents of rape culture, Hugo Schwyzer included, insist on exactly that vile definition of male sexuality. You’ve just made an excellent argument against his, and your, articles.

    “It’s hard to step back from the horror of rape, particularly the rape of children, to consider the larger context in which it happens, especially in a forum dedicated to the primacy of individual stories and experiences.”

    Theres plenty of general articles on here.

    “Male-on-female rape is part of a larger system of violence and oppression—this is a fundamental aspect of rape theory. Boys and men don’t have to think about being the victims of rape on a regular basis. (And comparing being mugged to an underlying perpetual awareness of vulnerability to rape is just sloppy and inaccurate in terms of scope or effect.)”

    Men don’t think about being victims because they’re trained not to, even in situations where they’re more likely to be victimised. I personally know (female) rape victims who *have* compared their experiences to being assaulted, would you like to tell them that they’re being sloppy and inncaccurate.

    “Rape—the threat of it, the frequency of it, the gendered reality of it—is one of a long list of ways that women are controlled in private and public spaces.”

    No, society isn’t making rape jokes to control you. Sorry, but this is a perfect example of the conspiracy theory thinking you spoke against above.

    “Men don’t alter the cadence of their days—their commutes, hobbies, jogging paths, sleeping habits, parking routines, dog walking, working hours—because they have to consider being raped. Women, not even consciously, incorporate their protective responses and defenses into everything they do.”
    As above, men are trained not to value their own safety as much as women. In reality men have alot more than women to fear from a dark alleyway, they fact that they don’t consider their own vulnerability as much as women is not evidence that they aren’t vulnerable, or that women are being controlled by some shadowy network of rapists.

    “Girls learn that they have to do that in their first introduction to gender based inequities after a childhood of hearing that boys and girls are equal. Raising the specter of women raping boys implies a false equivalence and doesn’t help us understand and change a culture where rape—the power, the crime, the threat, and the jokes—is acceptable.”

    No, girls are brought up to protect themselves from violence after a childhood of hearing that boys shouldn’t hit girls (but not the reverse). Repeating the specter of women raping boys is an attempt to help a group of victims you seem determined to ignore. I’d like to hear you tell a man whose been falsely accused of rape that rape is considered acceptable, you might be pleased to find that its the least acceptable crime out there.

    “A lot of the debate over rape culture theory that I’ve read here hinges on its being filtered through the lens of individual stories instead of the other way round. As a result it ends up being misrepresented as an individual man-bad/perpetrator, woman-good/victim argument.”

    I agree, but this coming from someone who sees the victimisation of men as evidence of misogyny and female rapists as being somehow a result of male sexual aggression makes it a very hollow sentence indeed.

    “The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing.”

    No, we live in a culture that almost universally abhors rape. The fact that we joke about it it is not evidence that its considered acceptable, we joke about almost everything. I want you to take this moment to think about every joke you’ve ever told. Did you condone all those things? Do you really think that those jokes you’ve told are part of a culture normalising those things? I’m glad you think rape is just as much a problem for male victims as it is for female, thats the first step. All you have to do now is admit that it happens.

    “Only men can stop rape.”

    What??? You have several paragraphs above deploring how female rapists aren’t recognised. If you recognise them how on earth do you think it is somehow a man’s fault when they rape, or a man’s responsibility to stop them? Only rapists can stop rape, male or female, I’m a man and I have never raped anyone.

    “Organizations like My Strength, Men Can Stop Rape, Advocates for Youth and others are working hard to do that. Books like the The Guys Guide to Feminism, with its illustrated rules of consent, is another good start. To me, good men and women are people who say this has to end. They stop deflecting, trivializing and joking about it and then do something to change it.”

    I’m sure they’re working very hard, but if they intend to stop rape by eradicating rape jokes they’re wasting their precious time. The reality is that as long as we have humans, we will always have rape, just as we will always have murder, assault, theft and every other crime out there. Stopping people from making jokes or video games won’t have any impact. Rapists, male or female, are twisted and mentally ill individuals, often with a background of abuse themselves, whether at the hands of a male or female abuser. They did not decide to do what they did on the basis that they heard a joke and thought it was ok.

    We don’t have a rape culture against women. Most human societies treat rape (when its committed by a man) in the harshest manner possible. Even those (men) falsely accused and even aquitted of rape charges are victimised by association throughout their lives. Rape perpetrated by women, on the other hand, is definitely ignored by society, covered up, buried and dismissed. How does it feel to be a part of rape culture Sorya?

    • Peter

      Well argued and presented, but I believe little chance of any rational or structured response.

      I have been doing a metta analysis of responses elsewhere when the author has written. If the response praises and agrees they get acknowledged, if they disagree they are ignored.

      It’s quite deliberate and shows an inability to consider or address criticism. It shows a closed mind which by definition is a prison.

      “Dispositions of the mind, like limbs of the body, acquire strength by exercise.”
      THOMAS JEFFERSON

      Those who don’t exercise end up enfeebled!

      • Peter Houlihan says:

        Well said.

      • Peter Houlihan says:

        To be honest, I wasn’t sure I expected one. I just had to add my voice.

        • Peter – I do believe in raising one’s voice when appropriate!

          However, there are none so deaf as will not hear!

          I do find it comical that after all the Schywyzergate and Twitter gate and the platitudes about how men have to accept women’s anger, it seems that we will soon have to read about just accepting contempt as well! C’est La Vie!

        • Half the reason I engage in comments is about improving my horrible writing skills.

          • Lisa Hickey says:

            That’s an awesome reason, truly leta. I became a much better writer when I started commenting a lot.

  14. If some feminists write about rape culture in a way that minimizes the reality of male rape victimization by dishonest usage of stats, is that proof rape culture exists and the very people advocating against it are actually causing part of it?

    • I think that depends on their idea of rape culture. If they are only looking out for the well being of people raped by males in their rape culture theory then no they wouldn’t because their theory doesn’t consider the well being of those raped by females in the first place.

      Kinda like how some of them are with sexism. They start off by selectively redefining sexism as being male against female only and work on only male against female sexism. And presto-chango-magico all of a sudden female against male sexism doesn’t exist therefore its not a part of the overall sexism that they are dealing with.

      In short its real easy to say, “I’m not against that.” when you’ve defined “that” out of existence from get go.

      On the other hand the ones that speak of rape culture and actually do account for those raped by females I would say that no they are not causing the rape culture they are advocating against.

  15. My question: Why is rape the only crime where victim blaming is not allowed?

    Example: A couple of weeks ago I saw a story with accompanying video of a man telling a group of crazy looking guys to turn down their music, their response was to beat him up. The writer of the article said that while he wasn’t wrong to tell them to turn down their music he should’ve known better than to tell a group of guys with that certain demeanor to turn down their music.

    Hello victim blaming!!! So if a woman decides to take a jog at midnight in the most dangerous part of town while wearing a nightie should be absolved of any criticism if she gets raped why shouldn’t it be the same for getting beaten up or mugged or getting your car stolen? If I leave my very expensive car in the bad part of town at night with the doors open and the keys in the ignition and somebody steals it and the police have the nerve to call me a idiot for doing that is that victim blaming?

    • “So if a woman decides to take a jog at midnight in the most dangerous part of town while wearing a nightie . . .? ”

      Most women would never do that.

      ” If I leave my very expensive car in the bad part of town at night with the doors open and the keys in the ignition . . .”

      Most people would never do that.

      Why not? Because of victim blaming, or common sense?

      Reasonable people without an agenda say common sense.

    • Problem is because strangerbased rape is relatively few in number compared to known-person rape, so telling women to be careful in public doesn’t really help. Also clothing has no link to rape, people get raped in all sorts of clothing, so no point telling them what to wear.

      The emphasis is on putting the blame on the attacker, not the victim. You’d have to tell them to not go near another person in order to avoid rape and that won’t work…If you want to say becareful at night in areas that aren’t well lit and there aren’t many people around as a general rule that’s ok due to being alone and opportunity for the criminal to rob, attack, etc without as much chance of being caught. But why go blaming the victim after it’s happened?

      Is it the fault of any victim of violent crime? We live in a civilized society and we should be safe, but the blame is solely on the attacker. I can understand people saying it’s stupid to go slap an animal, but humans are expected to behave in our society and have much better reasoning and intelligence than pretty much every other animal. Why shouldn’t we victim blame? because it’s an asshole thing to do.

      • “Is it the fault of any victim of violent crime? We live in a civilized society and we should be safe, but the blame is solely on the attacker.”

        Absolutely correct, the blame is solely on the attacker. But by introducing terms like “rape culture” they are putting blame on every male. All men are responsible if a woman gets raped. We wish to eradicate rape, but feminists are turning it into a culture.

  16. Rape is a crime. Rape literally means “having sexual intercourse without the consent other party by using violence to intoxication.” Person of either sex who indulges in such act is a criminal and deserves to be punished harshly. As for the rape culture, it exists only as much as other crime cultures like burglary culture, robbery culture, DUI culture, murder culture etc exist. Rape is a crime that suits the feminist ideological meme “men are oppressing women” Men can prevent rape only as much they can prevent auto-theft, robbery, forgery and murder. It is the job of law enforcement to prevent crime and others are in any way responsible for it.

  17. This paragraph has me shaking my head

    “A lot of the debate over rape culture theory that I’ve read here hinges on its being filtered through the lens of individual stories instead of the other way round. As a result it ends up being misrepresented as an individual man-bad/perpetrator, woman-good/victim argument. The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape. ”

    first sentence

    “A lot of the debate over rape culture theory that I’ve read here hinges on its being filtered through the lens of individual stories instead of the other way round.”

    You need to have the lens of rape culture theory to understand individual stories?
    is that what she is saying?

    Is this just another way of saying you have to believe in jesus and accept him as your savior to truly understand the bible?

    I am looking at that paragraph and it scares me….
    Is there some hidden meaning im missing or is this just another faith based argument?

    “As a result it ends up being misrepresented as an individual man-bad/perpetrator, woman-good/victim argument.”

    As opposed to?
    All men bad all women good?
    what is the correct argument that you are implying?

    ” The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. ”

    the matrix argument?

    and finally
    “Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape. ”

    wtf?
    So after looking at individual rape stories through the lens of rape culture theory all men are perp women are victims that is why only men can stop rape?

    • If you have a paranoid outlook you will find evidence to support your paranoia humans are great at finding patterns even in randomness. If your only proof of rape culture is to look at the world through the lens of rape culture theory and use that compromised view to prove rape culture is real is just a circular argument.

      If you view the world with those old 3d glasses guess what? the whole world looks blue and red.

      • “If you view the world with those old 3d glasses guess what? the whole world looks blue and red.”

        Even more interesting is that the brain will also compensate and start to tell the wearer that the tinted colours are normal and it’s the normal view of the world. The brain displays great plasticity and an ability to normalise both perceptions and behaviours with adaptation to either remove or mitigate the effects.

        I find it fascinating That Rape Culture is such a big issue – it’s spoken of as all pervasive – It controls peoples lives and all that they do, and yet:

        1) The US Government will not use the term, even when reporting on such things as rape.
        2) If you look for Academic papers and studies that explain, articulate or examine “rape culture”, they don’t exist
        3) Rape Culture defenders can’t tell you who coined the term, where it comes from and who is the academic, thinker, theorist who developed The Model and named it.
        4) The term is used as a Concrete Concept and structure but only addresses Female Rape By Male Perpetrators and Rape of any victim by any perpetrator
        5) The term is self referential and self defending so once it is accepted as a concrete reality even none sexualised and none aggressive behaviour is made into and perceived as sexual aggression, ( eg an unknown male smiling at the woman is exhibiting antisocial rape culture related behaviour).
        6) Rape Culture requires modification of behaviour, information, thinking and emotions an known pattern of Mind and Thought control.
        7) All people who are not accepting of Rape Culture or who question it’s foundations and use are attacked and this failure to buy into the model, is a self referential self supporting factor that is linked to emotional control and not rational processing.
        8) The Rape Culture believer becomes more strongly wed to the modifications of behaviour, information, thinking and emotions the more they defend the Model and the more it is questioned.
        9) when asked to explain the mechanisms of Rape Culture the believer is unable to articulate mechanisms but does refer to limited activities such as telling jokes about rape – and yet finds it also socially acceptable to joke about rape in certain situations such as “Don’t Drop the Soap” and Prison Rape.
        10) When you point out points 1 to 9 above, you are called a Rapist, rape apologist, women hater, unreconstructed male, and multiple other insulting language forms are also applied.

        Most fascinating was a study I was looking at. It used young college women as test subjects. They were split into two groups.

        Group one were presented with a written scenario of engaging with a man in asocial situation and asked to score their feelings for security, danger, risk etc.

        Group two were presented with a written scenario of watching another woman with a man in a social situation and asked to score their feelings for that woman’s security, danger, risk etc.

        Group one scored the factors as low – Group two scored that factors as high.

        The Study concluded that this was strong evidence that female students lacked training and instruction on personal security and all Colleges and Universities had to increase rape and sexual violence awareness.

        There was a total disregard that women are able to judge their own security in any given situation and act appropriately. It was seen that only external agents could see the danger and all women had to be protected from it. That’s Rape Culture – the Disenfranchisement of women by women!

        The study was subject to much criticism – especially given that Group One were tested a week before a On campus Campaign supporting rape culture, and group two were tested a week after.

        When you look at matters and consider “Decision-making and behavioral biases” a number of models are apparent – Anchoring, Attentional bias, Backfire effect, Bandwagon effect, Bias blind spot, Choice-supportive bias, Confirmation bias, Congruence bias, Contrast effect,…. and the list goes on.

        Most interesting is “defensive attribution hypothesis” which fits the use of Rape Culture on two fronts.

        First – the seminal work was in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s and was a Hot Topic in social sciences, psychology and academia, the same time as the Rape Culture Model emerged. Second it identifies that individuals will use the experiences of others as a self referential, and so the more serious an event, even when in no way connected to the individual, the more the subject will use the event and perceived outcome to judge their own experience and world view and with that act to prevent the same experience.

        Interestingly – the same bias is the primary one in regards to sexual assault blame attributions, where men are seen as less likely to blame the man and women are more likely to support the woman.

        They act as flip sides of the same coin, so once the Rape Culture model is embedded the biases associated with it are self referential and as the defence is based upon the same bias inverted it becomes self supporting and self referential.

  18. Another feminist acting to maintain an unjust monopoly and to enable further discrimination and injustice against those deemed lesser or non victims. This author is patently unqualified to write anything about sexual abuse and should actually be ignored.

    Meanwhile in my country and yours feminist services funded by the taxpayer respond to desperate calls from victims with laughter and accusations of dishonesty. Feminist politicians disallow men and boys to be asked about abuse and force removal of questions regarding female perpetrators from government studies. These are the real feminists in action. Mongrels all. Intent on ensuring no male victim or victim of female perpetrator can get help or justice and mocking and degrading them if they try.

    Feminists have no answers apart from hurting victims. They ALWAYS act to exclude. This article is nothing more than another act of feminist exclusion. One of many.

  19. We’ve read the stats and tweaked the numbers but bottom line – what is more important ending rape or debating who is hurt by it or experiences it more, who suffers more, more worthy of being believed – given sympathy, compassion or understanding, respect, dignity and compassion?

    All the time spent saying one victim of more of victim or more often a victim takes time away from helping all victims and ending rape where ever possible.

    • Julie Gillis says:

      I may quote you on that SweetSue.

    • Well, agreed but the problem is that nobody can agree on the exact source of the problem. It’s as if you had a cold and along comes someone to tell you there pet theory ( I use the term not in the scientific sense) as to why you have one and vaguely how to cure it. If that person is wrong, then the cure proffered will be of no help and at worst you may die or at the least suffer longer than necessary. Same goes for the issue of rape. Feminists offer up rape theory (again I use that term theory not in the scientific sense) as sort of a unifying theory of rape but there are problems which people here have pointed out over and over again. If rape culture theory is wrong then any solution that is derived from it will most likely fail and those that don’t will be more due to chance than the “theory” itself.

  20. “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?”

    Rape culture is nore more or less real than [most any other crime] culture. The feminists who insist on discussing rape all day every day are the only ones who claim or imply that all men are responsible for rape in one way or another. It seems they are desperate to link all males to rape by any means necessary.

  21. Great! Another “men are responsible for rape” article by a professional feminist s**t stirrer. This one takes a different approach though. She doesn’t say the usual “All men are rapist” . She claims “all men are condensending and compliciant in rape”. She drags out all the long debunked stats along with cherry picking a few tidbits from other stats . Then she claims “Only men can stop rape!” To this I ask HOW! As a father of 3 women . a brother to 2 sisters, DON”T YOU THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE RAPE ERADICATED FROM SOCEITY!!! I would just love to see one of these”Rad Fems” say something constructive just once in my lifetime!

  22. “Rape culture is a term which originated in women’s studies and feminist theory, describing a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are COMMON”

    Um……er……what? What exactly is meant by “common”? The use of that term is so vague that it could be interpreted to mean just about anything the authors of the wikipedia article, or any feminist for that matter, want it to mean.

    “and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women”

    Interesting so why are there laws at all against rape? It makes no sense. Rape is okay supposedly according to our culture but not okay according to our laws which are a reflection of what people in our culture, collectively, have deemed to be wrong. That’s a circle I’d like to see squared.

  23. By the way, the “only men can stop rape” meme has been debunked by me here:

    http://jameslandrith.com/content/view/3847/79/

    Anyone who truly cares about ending sexual violence will not engage in the erasure or minimization of ANY survivor for ANY reason. I’m really tired of seeing this type of garbage here. I thought things were changing?

    • “Anyone who truly cares about ending sexual violence will not engage in the erasure or minimization of ANY survivor for ANY reason. I’m really tired of seeing this type of garbage here. I thought things were changing?”

      James – you have convinced even me!

      Die Hard Equality, Meddling Rational Archivist – 30 years in the field! There is an issue here that goes beyond Equality and needs Affirmative Action!

    • PS James

      “On any given day you can, if you chose, participate in an entertaining and informative pop culture rape happening.”

      I choose NO! I don’t do pop culture – I deal in the reality of people who have been raped! How dare the OP dismiss so many people in that way!

      I hope the OP realises just how much it took to make me look at what is going on and say “No More”!

      I’m beyond Fury at what I have seen!

      Pop Culture? If she even spent ten minutes with a Rape Victim – who you hope will become a Rape Survivor – it has nothing to do with Pop Culture and using that Rhetoric is beyond contempt!

      That mentality is so dismissive and abusive… enough is enough!

      Every time I go back to that piece of dross above I get more Furious! I have looked for good – but it’s no good!

      Gove me the red pill!

  24. “Only men can stop rape.”

    Uh, no Soraya. The woman who drugged, raped and blackmailed me into silence bloody well fucking can stop rape and I hold her accountable to doing so. She is, after all, a disgusting rapist.

    The fact that you do not speaks volumes about your compassion toward rape survivors as living, breathing human beings vs. pawns to be used in a socio-political argument.

    Good grief.

  25. I wanted to post this on her article at the huffington post but they don’t allow for too much in writing:P
    ht tp://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/definition-of-rape_b_1190255.html

    “I notice a lot of comments are often by men feeling quite ignored by anti-rape advocates, new cdc stats show in the last 12 months a fairly equal level of rape between the genders (if you include envelopment/forced to penetrate in the definition). The updated definition of rape still doesn’t include this which can lead to what many see as a bias in statistics, where many male victims aren’t seen as rape victims but merely “sexual assault” victims so you can say women suffer disproportionately from rape and gender the argument.

    As bad as the levels of rape are for women, should we really be ignoring the men who cry whataboutthemenz on a very serious issue? There are many who deflect but there are also a huge amount that simply want to be acknowledged and treated with dignity, where stats show rape is becoming less of a women’s issue in dominance and more affecting everyone closer to parity.

    What I find truly depressing is the dismissal of male rape as insignificant compared to female rape, where only the worse-off gets the empathy and the lesser gets contempt. It’s sadly common amongst feminist boards and is breeding a level of hatred for feminism that’s making many disregard anything that any feminist says. All it does is continue a war between the genders where they don’t help each other but simply battle it out in the oppression olympics, when really we should be listening to each other and noticing Hey, that men has a point on male victims, and that woman has a point on female victims, how about we cater to both genders instead of portraying rape as a 1 sided issue.

    I see there are calls for Men to end rape, yet we need to be calling every human to end rape, it doesn’t matter the levels of who is raped more because all of it is bad. To ignore a large proportion of male rape (forced to penetrate/envelopment), is that not adding to rape culture? To belittle the men who leave comments here desperate for help in recognizing they too are abused, is that not adding to rape culture?

    I see so much contempt here for MRA’s yet it’s the exact same contempt I see that many of the bad mra’s have in feminism, is it that hard to see both sides have members who are good, honest, and want to make a positive impact in life?

    Men can’t stop rape alone, there are stats proving a high level of rape occurs to both genders, continually putting the responsibility at men’s feet whilst ignoring women’s responsibility is not helping. It doesn’t mean men suffer more, it shouldn’t matter who suffers more when the numbers are high for both, no person should suffer and the fact that even 1 case occurs to each gender means both are to be included completely. ”

    I just hope a few read this, tell me what you think, I’m especially keen to know what you think Soraya. I don’t want there to be some silly gender war and pissing contest over who gets it worse, I just want both genders adequately supported in the fight against abuse and what I am noticing is a very clear female victim, male attacker mentality throughout many blogs, comments, and articles on the matter. Given the new cdc stats were groundbreaking, is it time we expand our view?

    “” Given the statistics about rape, and barring any transformative planetary event, only Men Can Stop Rape. ”
    “There are so many new organizati­ons like Men Can Stop Violence. Also Men Stopping Violence. ” – from your comment.
    All I see in your article is fuel for MRA’s and funnily enough they’re justified in being angry, are the CDC stats not worthy? There are comments on your article detailing boys not being believed with female abusers, doesn’t this strike you as odd? Could it be that portraying rape so heavily in a manner that is women as victims, men as rapists, and advocating for men can stop rape without advocating the same for women could be biasing peoples views still? What’s sad is I don’t see any of the “feminists” addressing those comments, from the outside looking in it does appear what many of these so called BAD mra’s say about feminist pages is true.

    If anyone wants a shock they only need lookup the rate of sexual abuse and other forms of abuse in our youth, very common on both sides where abuse seems to be fairly even. To me that’s a clear need for us to handle all forms of abuse, not just female victimization and male perpetration.

  26. The reality is feminist causes, specifically no fault divorce and glamorization of out of wedlock births are a huge factor in setting the stage for the current male on female component of the rape culture.

    A survey of 108 rapists undertaken by Raymond A. Knight and Robert A. Prentky revealed the 60 percent came from female-headed homes,. 70 percent of those describable as ‘violent’ came from female-headed homes. 80 percent of those motivated by ‘displaced anger’ came from female-headed (single-parent) homes.

    • I support no fault divorce, but I also believe changes are sorely needed with the way men in practice are mistreated by the divorce-industry (lawyers, courts) which thrive on conflict rather than fostering amicable divorces. I am not for glamorization of out of wedlock births – they are not better than in-wedlock births, but I am firmly against the demonization of them we used to have which really had a very negative impact on the child (being bullied and shunned etc.)

      Research as you quoted are important to understand the reasons why and hopefully gain knowledge which can help us decrease that percentage. Perhaps there are some behavioural pattern more often occuring in those households which could be avoided given awareness. Abolishing female-headed households is no goal for me – and considering that statistics show that rape (defines as rape of women) have decreased significantly in the US since the 1970 while the number of female-headed households surely have risen a lot in that timeframe indicates that there are aother factors at play as well. We need research to find them and I wish future research would include male victims and female perpetrators as well. The NISVS 2010 report sure indicate that the prevalency is more of a human issue than a gendered one.

      • “The NISVS 2010 report sure indicate that the prevalency is more of a human issue than a gendered one.”

        I have to say I agree!

        But, I have to wonder how long it will take some to look at the human and not the gender?

    • David Byron says:

      In general feminists who pretend men run the world (and therefore blame men for all the evil in the world) would do well to recall the old saying that “the hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world”. That observation is hardly limited to the mothers of rapists, or indeed to children of single parents.

  27. My article was in response to the claim that women rarely rape boys. That factually untrue, and I cited sources proving that. As Tamen noted, even the CDC report you cited shows that the majority of sexual violence committed against males is committed by women. Had the researchers not deliberately excluded “being forced to penetrate” as rape, the final rape statistic for males would show that women commit a significant among of rape against males.

    Comparing sexual violence against males to male breast cancer is is just sloppy and inaccurate in terms of scope and effect, and speaking as a male survivor and an advocate for male survivors it is insulting. Likewise, complaining about the media coverage of high-profile cases is at best petulant. Of course news outlets will cover cases involving dozens or hundreds of boys whose abuse was covered up by a major religious organization. However, one typically only sees reports about such extreme cases. The majority of news reports about sexual violence involve female victims.

    You claim that feminists do not deny, ignore, or hide sexual violence against boys, yet you also state, “There is a qualitative difference between saying men rape women and women rape men and that difference gets eliminated when you tell individual stories without context.” That reads strikingly like a feminist denial that boys and men face any threat from rape and that we ought not talk about it because it might make people think it sexual violence against males is just as bad as sexual violence against females.

    There is a reason why I do not discuss my experiences as a male survivor with feminists, the above article is why.

    • I don’t feel safe with feminists like these representing the anti-abuse campaigning quite frankly, I’ve met other feminists on here who have listened to my story and are nothing like the author it seems. They’re willing to accept it, understand, and actually help male victims as well as females. Is it all feminists you do not discuss with or just the gynocentrics and radfems?

  28. christiankp says:

    @Leia
    In patriarchy, this would never had happened. It was universally understood and accepted that sex had to wait until marriage. Although there were lot of premarital sex even then, the ideology that sex was only permissible in marriage made it easier for women to fend of unwanted sexual encounters.
    The marriage should also be accepted by your father – and most probably your father would not have approved. Better still, the jerk would never have tried to get in your pants because he knew that he would never get accepted by your dad.

    • I agree with you hundred per cent. Rape used to be crime against family. With the break down of patriarchal system and prevalence of hook up culture, the boundary between consensual sex and rape has blurred.

  29. Good points…I was in love with a much older man when I was very young and naive…at least I thought I was in love…because I thought I was in love, I didn’t call it rape…although as I look back (after I finally dumped him 2 decades ago), it was statutory rape…it was coercion, manipulation, deception, and sociopathic…he tried to stalk me and my family 2 decades after I left that awful abusive relationship….Thank you for talking about this important topic….every day when I walk on the streets, ride the subway, or go to work, I get harassed by men and boys….it doesn’t matter that I am a professional with multiple degrees….it doesn’t matter that I get a big paycheck every 2 weeks…..it doesn’t matter that I have a preteen in middle school and pay lots of taxes…on the streets I look like young Asian teenager (even though I am a 45 yo medical professional) and I am treated like some ignorant FOB prostitute like on the streets of Vietnam….Why is that? I walk around with my camera phone/digital camera on so I am always ready to photograph whoever is about to harass me or grope me…..I have already got someone arrested at my town pool for harassing me and my friends…..Why do these jerks expect us women to tolerate rude, obnoxious behavior like that? I am turning the camera lens on them….there is nothing wrong with me…and there is a helluva lot wrong with these jerks out there….

    • Leia

      Do you advocate the same security practice and mind set for other’s too?

      How about Disabled Poeple – or Those from minorities related to sexuality? What about The Elder Class?

      It seems odd that the author equates personal security with only one group and one risk factor!

      “Rape—the threat of it, the frequency of it, the gendered reality of it—is one of a long list of ways that women are controlled in private and public spaces. Men don’t alter the cadence of their days—their commutes, hobbies, jogging paths, sleeping habits, parking routines, dog walking, working hours—because they have to consider being raped. ”

      Men don’t have to do what?
      Elders Don’t have to do what?
      Disabled People Don’t have to do what?
      Gay me and Women don’t have to do what?
      Shall I raise Race?

      • I alter where I walk, where I go, I avoid going to nightclubs etc from a fear of men AND women, I am afraid of women just as much, maybe even a bit more (I can usually spot bad guys easy as hell, women are a total mystery though).

        I am 6’6 and quite large, yet I feel fear and have avoided much of the public in the past and still continue to do so, of course I don’t fear them for rape but for other reasons but I don’t like the assumption that it’s only women adjusting their behaviour for something in life. Men alter their behaviour, even some for rape, it’s true we raise women to be deathly afraid of being raped and raise men to never show their fear but that’s why no one knows about it….its “cowardly” to admit it.

        • Archy – don’t you dare put yourself down!

          There are enough buggers out there who will do it for you, without you colluding! P^)

          • True, thank-you. I don’t believe it is cowardly anymore, hence the quotes and I am getting past that fear. Just signed up for a pro photo course which I’m really looking forward to, big step in getting out there again.

            • Illegitimi non carborundum! P^)

              I’ll have to show you my snaps one day! Crutches are a pain – but they do work as a quick and ready Tripod!

              Action Wildlife Photography and Surfers a Speciality! Also Candid Portraits when “they” don’t think you are looking! Sometimes being invisible has it’s advantages. P^)

              Work it!

  30. christiankp says:

    How should it possible for men to stop rape? Of cause you could say that all men could just decide not to rape. But there will always be assholes who cannot or will not control themselves. It is impossible for the men who do not rape to get in control of all those men. We do not know who they are. We are not there to stop them when they perpetrate their deed. The only thing we can do is to raise the sentences that these men get when caught and to lower the burden of proof. But this is very expensive and will boomerang back on women with less resources to welfare.
    Of cause we could tell each other that it is not OK to rape women but that will not work as men’s authority has been deliberately weakened by feminist. The old patriarch could do this, but he does not exist anymore. The old patriarch held power over both men and women. But when women do not accept to pay respect to the patriarch as wives or daughters they also tell the assholes among males that they do not need to follow him.
    Therefore society is in a situation were males can do nothing about rape because no man has authority. Feminists shame the nice guys for the ass-holes raping them and at the same time the ass-holes laugh at the nice guys because they get all the sex.
    The only way women can make it possible for men to counter rape is to reinstall those of us who are responsible as patriarchs in the family, which can only be done by diminishing divorce and by women celebrating the responsible man.
    Responsible men can fight rape and violence but we need to get authority by women to do it, and that authority – unfortunately – requires both patriarchal responsibilities and privileges.
    I am very sory to say this as I know it will be a bitter pill to swallow by feminists

    • A lot of rape, both with male and female perpetrators happens because the rapist didn’t think through the consequences and didn’t pay enough attention to ensure that consent was given or assumed that consent was given (but he let me touch his groin earlier when he was awake). The vaaaaaaast majority of men and women wants to have sex with a consentual partner. But a minority of women and men have failed to obtain it in some cases. Trying to prevent those failures by educating men and women is a good thing and I think it can be very effective. Even more effective if women are taught the same lesson as well since a) almost as many women as men fails b) it’ll be easier for men to accept responsibility for their partners protection if they at the same time are told (in a believable manner) that they are afforded the same protection.

  31. Yes, let’s talk about rape culture. Did anyone notice that the definition of rape culture that the author linked to on Wikipedia excludes rape against men?

    …a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women.

    First off; a premise:
    NISVS 2010 Report from CDC (which the author referred to) dropped the ball (intentionally or not) and
    did not categorize “being made to penetrate someone else” as rape.

    Here is the definitions they used for rape and “being made to penetrate someone else” (p.17):

    Rape is defined as any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal
    penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the
    use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk,
    high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent. Rape is separated into three types,
    completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, and completed alcohol or drug
    facilitated penetration.

    Being made to penetrate someone else includes times when the victim was made to,
    or there was an attempt to make them, sexually penetrate someone without the victim’s
    consent because the victim was physically forced (such as being pinned or held down, or by
    the use of violence) or threatened with physical harm, or when the victim was drunk, high,
    drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.

    I will consider both of them to be rape. They are both by law considered rape where I live.

    The fact that it’s possible for CDC and the article’s author and just about everyone who I’ve seen
    reporting on the NISVS 2010 report to not consider “being made to penetrate someone else” as rape is a big part of rape culture – a rape culture which rape and sexual violence against men are common and in which prevalent attitudes (that’s not rape), norms (all men want sex all the time), practices (erection = consent) and media (Sharon Osbourne on The Talk laughing of a man getting his penis cut off by a woman) condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against men.

    The author writes:

    No reliable source, including RAINN, The Department of Justice, the Centers for Disease Control,
    Advocates for Youth among others, has any substantive and quantitatively sound information
    regarding the incidence of single offender female perpetrators of abuse.

    Which is just plain wrong. If she had read on page 24 in the NISVS 2010 Report from CDC she links to she would’ve seen that 79.2% of the men reporting “being made to penetrate someone else”
    reported a singe female offender:

    For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims reported only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (79.2%), sexual coercion (83.6%), and unwanted sexual contact (53.1%).

    Considering that the last 12 month prevalency numbers (tables p.18-p.19) show that
    1.1% women reported being raped and 1.1% men reported “being made to penetrate someone else”
    we actually get close to a 60-40% distribution of male and female perpetrators of those two categories
    (which I consider one: rape).

    What could cause the original author to ignore this, yes, in fact state the exact opposite?
    Laziness by not reading the report, dishonesty by knowingly ignoring the facts, blindness to
    anything that challenges feminist dogma? It doesn’t matter, because whatever it is it contributes to
    a rape culture which normalizes sexual violence and rape against men to such an extent that it
    doesn’t even recognize it for what it is.

    Raising the specter of women raping boys implies a false equivalence and doesn’t help us
    understand and change a culture where rape—the power, the crime, the threat,
    and the jokes—is acceptable.

    Nice to know that the author believes that the 1,003,464(*) men who were “made to penetrate someone else” by a woman (as reported in NISVS 2010 from CDC) doesn’t exists – that they are just imagining it – The women making men penetrate them without their consent are just specters – ghosts.
    (*) 79.2% of 1,670,000 men (p.24 and p.19).

    The female perpetrator is not something completely new, it’s something that’s been ignored for a while, despite of some research suggesting so, for instance:
    (Anderson, P. (1998). Variations in college women’s self-reported heterosexual aggression. Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, 10(4), 283-292. ):

    Rates of sexually aggressive behaviors among women vary from one segment of the United States to another, but the evidence presented here shows that as many as 7% of women self-report the use of physical force to obtain sex, 40% self-report sexual coercion, and over 50% self-report initiating sexual
    contact with a man while his judgment was impaired by drugs or alcohol

    7% of college women reported using physical force to obtain sex

    Ignoring to the extent of actively denying this contributes to letting those 7% continue to use physical force to obtain sex, letting those 40% coerce their partner into sex, letting those 50+%
    initiate sex with a man too drunk or too high.

    I’ll be blunt just because I am angry.
    This article which goes to great lengths to ignore and deny that this happens and hence
    it does contribute to and is nothing more than a defence of a rape culture that does
    nothing to prevent women from raping men. I find it mindboggling that anyone can read
    the NISVS 2010 Report can write an article like this.

    But it gets worse; the author manages to write this:

    There is a qualitative qualitative difference between saying men rape women and women rape men
    and that difference gets eliminated when you tell individual stories without context.

    Which nothing else than a call for male victims to shut-up about their rape as it obscures the qualitiative difference between raped men and raped women. Can one have less empathhy?
    Ìn addition this is in essence saying that rape happening to men are not a as serious as rape happening to women because – well, because the way male rape victims are ridiculed and disbelieved (even by her: female rapists are specters) in her view are NOT part of a wider system of violence and oppression. It is quite clear that the system of violence and oppression of male victims are working very well at hiding their existence so well that even when it’s written in plain text in the NISVS 2010 it does not register with the author.

    Men are obviously increasingly tired of being expected to provide sex when we don’t want it ourselves.
    Men increasingly want the same legal and ethic protection against sexual violence and rape as women.
    Men are increasingly acknowledging to themselves and to others that they have been sexually violated.

    I thought that since women and feminists know how this is, that they’ll understand. I am sorely disappointed.

    Links to the NISVS 2010 and a article by the author of Anderson, P. 1998 will be posted in a
    subsequent comment in order to not keep this one up in moderation. The last paper is not available for
    free, but I will provide a link to the abstract where one can buy the full article if interested.

    • Links for my previous comment:
      NISVS 2010 Report from CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
      Anderson P. 1998: http://sax.sagepub.com/content/10/4/283.abstract and http://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm

      Because of the extremely annoying refresh which erased a half finished comment I had to write the previous comment in Notepad and paste it in – hence the formatting is a bit off with a few too many carriage returns in some lines. I hope it’s not completely unreadable.

      Editors: In another thread you noted that you’re looking into the dissappearance of not finished comments when a refresh happens. I’ve noticed that if I reply to another comment with the reply button then the refresh doesn’t seem to erase the comment I’ve started writing, but if I write a new comment directly it has disappeared at least on three occasions for me.

    • Another example:
      http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110403135352AAiwFYw

      A woman gets a man really drunk (he could barely stand) and took his virginity. She now has to ask someone else whether this is rape or not! She knows that it would be rape if a man did that to a woman – but she doesn’t know if it’s rape when she did it to a man – she has to ask!
      And it gets worse. The top-voted answer says that it couldn’t have been rape because he must’ve had an erection!

      • David Byron says:

        Many people accurately saying it is rape on two separate grounds. The number of people voting is way too small a sample size. My understanding is that most young people wouldn’t call it rape with the sexes reversed either (if it were not for the age difference that is).

        • David – I have to say all your points are 100% valid – but this is the Internet and the way people use it to find information is a factor.

          The scan for information – they don’t look at details unless they have to!

          I can see many people coming across that question, accepting what is visible on the screen ( No Scrolling and no mind required) and saying “Hey It’s Great I Raped the Guy and it’s OK!”.

          If Rape Culture has any validity as a Model, dealing with all reality , I would expect the question to be swarmed and voting to be rigged to make sure the right answer was at the top – and highly visible!

          Odd how it’s not – and only two votes!

        • I didn’t intend for it to be a sample size. Just as an anecdotal example if a woman who didn’t recognized what she did was rape – even though she would recognize it a rape if a man had done it to her and the topmost answer which blamed the boy (the answer also said that it wouldn’t be rape in the gender reversed situation). Both examples of attituted which I think are very common and which leads to the results we saw in the NISVS 2010 report.
          And yes, the NISVS 2010 report reportedjust as high a number for female rape victims the last 12 months so that many wouldn’t call it rape with the genders reversed either is a part of the problem with so many women being a victim of rape.

          I try to balance the rape discourse a bit by talking about male victims (and female perpetrators). I tend to talk exclusively about them, but I try my best to not erase, minimalize or deny female rape victims. A consideration the author if this article were unable to extend to male victim of sexual violence from women.

    • The article on rape culture on Wikipedia provided by the author says:

      Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming,…

      The author then writes (emphasis mine):

      Only men can stop rape.

      Either she is completely erasing mine and many other’s experience by saying that no female have ever raped anyone or she is herself contributing to rape culture – in an article she wrote about rape culture!

      Or perhaps she thinks that women doesn’t have any agency and responsibilities for their own actions at all (false consciousness an all)? Not the first time that argument have come from people calling themselves feminists.

    • MorgainePendragon says:

      “Did anyone notice that the definition of rape culture that the author linked to on Wikipedia excludes rape against men?”

      “…a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women.”

      does not EQUAL excluding rape against men. In fact, it doesn’t include or exclude ANY type of rape.

      It is defining a culture, not codifying incidences of rape.

      • I’ve made that same challenge before in the past and I was told that it was about how rape and sexual violence is tolerated and its victims are silenced. And it was told in a gender neutral manner covering “victims of rape and sexual violence” not female victims.

        So which is it?

        Does rape culture cover all rape or rape against females? If its both then I’m all rape then I’m down. If its rape against females then that’s cool too as long as the people pushing it don’t try to claim that its about all rape.

      • Morgaine

        You miss two points!

        First – the OP first line started with a Supposedly Rhetorical Question linked to a Bum Source. If you have look at Wikipedia you will see that it is in dispute – has been in dispute and even has had 3 different sets of entries in the last 24 hours.

        Some can’t make their minds up what “Rape Culture™” is.

        Is it a Term – meaning a noun or compound word used in a specific context meaning?
        Is it a Concept – meaning an idea formed from inference?
        Is it a Model – as in Conceptual model, a nonphysical model – Interpretation (logic), a model is (part of) an interpretation of facts in logic, a mapping of truth values to sentences?
        Is it a Theory – as in “a looking at, viewing, beholding”, and referring to contemplation or speculation, as opposed to action?

        There seems to be great Confusion by the people who keep using “Rape Culture™” and can’t explain what is is – and even where it has come from! I can tell the world I have a word or Compound Noun and keep changing what it is – what it means – and even how it gets used – but that would be a rather serious Fallacy called **Reification** as in making something real, bringing it into being, or making something concrete.

        Describing a Dragon is one thing – demanding it’s reality and what it looks like quite another!

        What about Dragon Theory? A Dragon Model? A Dragon Concept? Or do we just have a Term “Dragon” that relates to something people cna discuss and use, but making it an absolute reality is a fallacy?

        If so many are too lazy to get a descent definition in place – well some men may just have to do it!

        Second – If you look at “Rape Culture™” and how it is defined on Wikipedia you will note the following.

        “Rape culture is a term which originated in women’s studies and feminist theory, describing a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women.”

        It does not mention males at all – it is written to state that “Rape Culture™”ONLY Affects Women.

        It also has such lovely entries as “According to **the rape culture theory””, acts of sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices.”

        “The” – Definite Article! So where is this Definite Theory?

        So not only is there the question of “”THEORY” – where no theory is defined, but it is specially about “Commonly Employed” acts. That means any act that a woman wished to define under the UN-revealed and mysterious theory can be defined as “Rape Culture™”.

        I find it quite Comical that when you were directly asked what “Rape Culture™” is and where it came from you answered by implying I was rude and stupid and that men would not listen to women…

        So here is your chance again – where is the Original Citation of the Compound Noun “Rape Culture™” – who is the person who coined it – what did they mean when they did do – where is it written down – what does it describe – is it a term, concept, model, theory or even something else ?

        Have you seen “Rape Culture™” The Movie 1975 – concerning “Rape Culture™”, “Prisoners Against Rape”, Lorton Prison Virginia?

        Maybe once there are a few root citations and people know where it comes from.

        I wonder if there hasn’t been a little bit of abuse going on – given that the main Protagonists of “Rape Culture™” The Movie 1975 were males of colour, and them being erased is a racial issue where them being subjected to rape in prison has been dismissed because they didn’t count for “TWO” reasons?

        I do hope that they have not been ignored for Theoretic Reasons and some Essentialist attitudes that make both gender and race reasons to ignore and cast aside?

        I do note that the Director of “Rape Culture™” The Movie 1975 Margaret Lazarus is on record expressing her concerns as to how these men have been misrepresented – and even what they were discussion has been misrepresented.

        AS Margaret Lazarus has said ” They were talking about rape inside the prison(raping men) and out(raping women) and pointing out the similarities. It appeared that they were defining themselves as rapists but they were trying to define rape as a power relationship that took a sexual form. Only one of the 13 members of the group was actually in prison for rape. Their work, in collaboration with members of the DC Rape Crisis Center was groundbreaking.”

        I do hope that some White – Middle Class – Academic Women have not due to some Essentialist thinking around the issues of Gender and Race missed the “groundbreaking” nature of the work done by “Prisoners Against Rape” and just forgotten to Cite the work?

        I do hope that suck failure to Cite and consider has not been motivated by the error Ms Lazarus mentions where some Mistakenly believed all members of “Prisoners Against Rape” were rapists and so could be dismissed?

        You Said:
        “does not EQUAL excluding rape against men. In fact, it doesn’t include or exclude ANY type of rape.
        It is defining a culture, not codifying incidences of rape.”

        Hmmmm – does not Exclude ANYONE? – it defined a Culture and not indices of RAPE?

        Well we still need to get to the root citations and definitions to check those ideas and realities – Don’t We?

        So go on on shock us all – if men won’t listen to women and are as rude as you have said elsewhere here on GMP – you tell us all what “Rape Culture™”means and where it came from!

        We are all ears and waiting with Bated Breath!

        Once we all know – then there can be critical evaluation of what some have written – rather than just critical writing with the authors not knowing what the hell they are writing about!

  32. Wanna know if it’s rape or not? Can you envision joyously spending 72 hours with the other person, in uninterrupted partner focus, no tv, no telephone, no fax, no internet, no other people, just you and your sex partner? If you can’t envision that scenario you might want to rethink your motives.

    • David Byron says:

      Want to know if giving someone a lift in your car is really a case of kidnapping them? Can you envision joyously spending 72 hours with the other person, in uninterrupted focus, no tv, no telephone, no fax, no internet, no other people, just you and the person in the passenger seat? If you can’t envision that scenario you might want to rethink your motives.

    • … your premise is flawed. it assumes the ony reason anybody has consensual sex is for love (or something akin to it) this is demonstratably false

    • But by your line of thought a planned one night stand, booty calls, and many forms of casual sex would count as rape.

  33. Julie Gillis says:

    Ms. Chemaly, you say “Only men can stop rape….. To me, good men and women are people who say this has to end.”

    How to square that if the new laws include women forcibly penetrating a partner in some way. Would you tell me your stand on envelopment? Women have to stop rape (rape jokes, rape language, rape actions when they occur) as well, yes?

    I have a bunch of stats to go through, but is there anything written on stats around envelopment? Cases proven and prosecuted? I’d like to see them if there are.

    • J, there cannot be a rape by envelopment prosecuted because its not counted as a rape. That’s why we think rape is gendered, we don;t count it when women do it. The studies and surveys that do look at womens sexual coercion, show is that rape isn’t gendered at all.

      For example

      Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality, Volume 5, October 23, 2002
      w w w.ejhs.org
      From Deviance to Normalcy: Women as Sexual Aggressors
      Peter B. Anderson, Ph.D.
      Dyan T. Melson, M.Ed.

      “…. Rates of sexually aggressive behaviors among women vary from one segment of the United States to another, but the evidence presented here shows that as many as 7% of women self-report the use of physical force to obtain sex, 40% self-report sexual coercion, and over 50% self-report initiating sexual contact with a man while his judgment was impaired by drugs or alcohol (Anderson, 1998). Given these numbers, it is appropriate to conclude that women’s sexual aggression now represents a usual or typical pattern (i.e., has become normal), within the limits of the data reviewed in this paper…. ”
      h tt p://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm

      Its the same story with domestic abuse, its not gendered either, they have been manipulating us with fear and false accusations relating to abuse and rape. I think this publication has an obligation to learn about this stuff or at least publish the honest players as often as it does the feminist propagandists.

      • “I think this publication has an obligation to learn about this stuff or at least publish the honest players as often as it does the feminist propagandists.”

        I second the motion! All in favour say “Aye”!

      • David Byron says:

        Women raping men is absolutely criminal but I would guess prejudices mean it is rarely reported and rarely taken seriously when it is.

        • David the same can be said to apply to male on male rape of all types.

          I have to say that in the UK there is an odd statistical anomaly. Due to the hard work of many since the 1980’s on that very issue, Police and Crown Prosecution service are actually more disposed to prosecuting cases of Male on Male rape than any other form of rape – and at court it has a 200% higher conviction rate than Male on Female rape cases. And that excludes any guilty pleas – that Is Full Jury Trial.

          Odd how dogma Vs hard work with eduction have different outcomes!

          I can remember the days when it was impossible to even get police or anyone else to accept that male rape even existed. It was not that long ago! If it ever got to trial the defence routinely attacked the psychiatric credibility of the male victim.

          I would be more confident supporting a Male Rape Victim to trial than a Female rape victim, simply because The Work to treat the male as a real person with rights has a totally solid foundation and respect is engendered. It has nothing to do with Privilege – just lots of damned hard work and making sure the law is applied as written.

          I wish that some groups that Advocate for women would look at how to do it better. Demanding that some one be treated a particular way is not the same as showing why it is required by law.

        • David, when my aunt did it to me it was legal.

          • Yes – that used to be the case in The UK, until some activity occurred around failures of The Law to be Lawful and Abuse of Human Rights, Article 3, Article 6 and Article 14.

            First it was addressed under Secondary legislation amending Statutes and then the Primary Statutes were completely re-drafted and made Primary Legislation.

            Unfortunately – neither step applied the laws Retroactively. That has left many the Survivors of crimes that have been lost in time – and with that the responsibility of the abusers is also dismissed and left un-addressed.

            It’s why I do not differentiate between male of female Rape Survivors. Both suffer equally where the law has failed them for “ANY” reason. It’s a great pity that some just don’t get that and see only one group as having validity because The Law has provided them it protection longer than the other group!

            Injustice of any kind is a most bitter pill who ever is serving it up!

            Essentialist thinking has so many manifestations, and provides so many with a privileged bias!

  34. Ms. Chemaly, I understand that my physical strength makes me safer and less vulnerable to rape than you and all other women. It is privilege that lets men like me walk around without fear of rape at all hours. But please, PLEASE get your stats right! Don’t tell us to take rape culture seriously, then use already-debunked stats to minimize female perpetration of rape and sexual assault on men. The commenters here have given you some great places to start 🙂

    • This is actually a generalized reply about stats and conclusions. So, here is my response to studies referenced below.

      From Deviance to Normalcy: Women as Sexual Aggressors
      Peter B. Anderson, Ph.D.
      Dyan T. Melson, M.Ed.

      This is a synopsis of findings from the following:

      1982 Sarrel and Masters (1982) study of a sample of 11 case studies. The looked at patients at a sex therapy clinic to document women as sexual aggressors in heterosexual encounters. The other referenced cases have similarly small, statistically unsound by their own admission (see below), numbers:

      – Struckman-Johnson (Struckman-Johnson, 1988), 204 men and women. This, in addition to mainly being concerned with study also revealed that , “even when men do experience sexual coercion or force by a female, they suffer fewer negative consequences” and then they cite why. This also lends strength to the idea that rape, of women by men, is part of a larger spectrum of violence and power in the aggregate. They also reported that men “reported even high levels of force were acceptable as long as the perpetrators were attractive.” In addition, these studies are measuring “unwanted sexual aggression” which is not necessarily rape.

      – Larimer, Lydum, Anderson, and Turner (1999): 165 male and 131 female new. This was a study to measure not rape but one or more of the five types of unwanted sexual contact, especially in the context of alcohol use Overall, 34 men (20.7%) and 36 women (27.5%) reported being the recipients of unwanted sexual contact (very broadly defined by the five criteria). This is not a statistically relevant difference. In addition, the authors of study themselves explain very clearly that the results are limited due to lack of statistical validity and the pitfalls of self-reporting.

      These studies actually do as much to demonstrate my points as not. Namely:

      1) the assumption that females are always the victims is so institutionalized, that the majority of surveys and criteria for assessing the prevalence of unwanted sexual contact use gender-biased measures – hence the negative effect of accurately gauging actual harm to boys and men – either from men or women.

      2) “the rape experiences of boys and men are specifically denied, ignored and hidden—not by feminism—but by sexism, misogyny and the application of heteronormative standards”

      3) I argue these two points while explaining that “data on female sexual assault is hard to gather and verify” for the reasons above.

      I maintain that there is a quantitative difference when you consider rape of females as part of a much larger system of violence, abuse and oppression that patriarchal power structures require.

      • “I maintain that there is a quantitative difference when you consider rape of females as part of a much larger system of violence, abuse and oppression that patriarchal power structures require.”

        In future could that be used at the top of any posts, rather than having to be posted after much offence has been created.

        “quantitative difference” and how is that defined?

        You also failed to mention the Biases that come from small samples when they are lazily taken by academics using readily available resources called students. There does tend to be population bias – as anyone who has done the research knows!

        Situational and Environmental biases are also a recognised factor in such small groups.

        It’s why the CDC data whilst flawed does have a higher level of credibility – it is national and across all age groups. The Only excluded group were prisoners who could not be readily contacted at random by telephone.

        Given the outrage your sloppily constructed arguments and your poor and biased comments have been met with, I do feel that your response is far less than In-sufficient!

        Perhaps you will address concerns over the Much Trumpeted Updated Definition of Rape by the FBI – the one supposed to gain better and more accurate Statistics and which by it’s very wording excludes a number of rape victims of all ages?

        If statistics are to be used to support a model, then the Foundations have to be valid and firm. Else the whole model is but a castle in the air!

        Statistics Roulette is an old game – and it’s easy to spot when it’s a rigged house!

        • “I maintain that there is a quantitative difference when you consider rape of females as part of a much larger system of violence, abuse and oppression that patriarchal power structures require.”
          If you’re trying to suggest that women suffer more from violence and that added in with rape makes women’s experience worse than the statistics suggest otherwise. Care to explain?

          Fact is males die up to 4x more from violence, so that larger system of violence and abuse is regularly targeting and harming MEN more. Deaths for 2004 – 17.8m men, 3.8m women from violence, 6m men and 1m women from war and civil conflict ( ht tp://www.who.int/entity/healthinfo/global_burden_disease/DALY6%202004.xls ) . Not too sure how much of that was from oppression though as it’s just the total numbers and I haven’t got all day to analyze each oppression in each country, group, etc.

          So please explain the quantitative difference in female rape compared to male rape? What I see clearly is a lot of men being victims to violence, a lot of females being victims to violence, and I’m sure many more living victims than deaths outright but I am flabbergasted as to how women get it worse? Do you include all forms of rape including envelopment or just penetration by someone else?

          Truth of the matter is there is so much bias on reporting rape of males that it’s extremely dishonest to try compare male and female rape and suggest one gets it worse. Why continue the bias in reporting women get it worse when you cannot logically PROVE it under so much bias in the gathering of those statistics? Even the CDC stats had bias to inflate the number of women compared to men that were raped because they didn’t define forced to penetrate as rape, if they did you’d probably find the results for men and women to be much closer to parity.

          • Archy

            Actually, I require a “Qualitative” Analysis of Differences as well!

            I’m getting worried about the Propagation of This Rape Culture meme outside of the USA, and supported by US based charities.

            I’m delving into reports which indicate that America based organisations operating in Africa are running Anti Rape Programs – and when they hold Public Events, males who stand up and state they too have been raped – well they are publicly dismissed and shammed.

            And that is in a region with known civil war issues, where male on male rape is and has been used used as a weapon. So for me this is rapidly moving into a question of Quantitative and Qualitative and even International and sponsored Human Rights Abuse!

            I came to GMP committed to equality – It has taken one hell of a lot, but now I can see the gross inequality and why some men are so clear on the abuse of issues that is ongoing!

            Like Tom I used to think that most MRA’s were barking mad and extreme. No longer!

            • I can still see some of the barking mad ones, but I left a feminist area with the presumption most MRA’s were misogynist and bad, don’t want equality. But what I see is as many feminists and masculists/mra’s are actually the same but just diff sides of the fence. I’ve seen a lot of good and a lot of bad ones on either side, after reading her article on huffypost however I get a sense that many of those feminists have no interest in listening to MRA’s. They belittle them, and generalize about them whilst crying foul of the actions that do the same to them.

              It’s a sea of comments saying how mra’s come in saying how bad men get physically abused and other ways they try to dismiss and deflect (which is true in some cases), yet comments above point out some very real concerns and are ignored.

              “They trivialize everything that affects women. It’s really disgusting­­, and what saddens me the most is that women are easily manipulate­­d to put issues that harms them so badly on the back burner, and take care of men’s feelings first.”
              That’s one of the comments, which is funny because the same happens in reverse for the genders.

              The MRA’s are nothing like what I was told they were by some radfems, I went from thinking MRA – mostly bad, Feminism – mostly good and now I see BOTH – some bad, some good.
              What’s really bad is many of both can’t see their own hypocrisy in what they advocate, rape culture and male guilt instead of human guilt, overlooking vital stats and not seeing a biased representation of rape that is loaded to include more female victims by default. There are some who truly make a mockery under the guise of equality….

              • Archy

                I was stunned a couple of months ago – I was looking at the Rape Culture Model and how it related to the USA. I was trying to get my head around what for me is a very US-Centric phenomenon.

                I came across a blog that was very hot in its Google rankings. A young woman at college who was explaining her experience of Rape Culture. She even had an impassion video explaining her experience.

                I engaged with her and we started a dialogue – I explained that I was not in the US and was seeking insight to her experiences. I actually asked her when she first heard of rape culture, and she told me of how she had been approached on Campus by a group worried about Female Security. She went to a meeting – presentation dealing with women and Rape Culture, She found out all about it.

                The next day whilst she was walking from college to her residence, her purchases from the Market in bags, she heard a car horn. She was crossing the road at a designated pedestrian crossing.

                She then related in her blog, and in here video, how this car horn was an example of Rape Culture – and how a car horn was related to how she was dressed, that she was a women and it was evidently about her being female and some man commenting upon her as a person.

                I asked very openly if the car horn was linked to her – and had there been any signal from the car driver to her? She could not remember. She admitted that she did not immediately link the honking of a car horn to Rape Culture – and she did not even know the Gender/Sex of the car driver. She only made the link some minutes afterwards.

                I asked if it was possible that the Honked Horn was linked to her crossing the road and linked to a “Walk/Don’t Walk” lighting change?

                At that point I was told that I was a rape apologist – an excuser – an MRA Troll – and how dare I question the experience of a woman subjected to Rape Culture.

                The next morning I was researching Rape Culture and Mind Control.

                I did say in my piece Titled “Bite Me Bite Me” concerning The PSU/Happy Valley mess:

                “B.I.T.E. Is seductive. That is why it’s dangerous. It’s not a rabid dog. It’s your deepest desire to be bitten.”
                http://goodmenproject.com/guy-talk/bite-me-bite-me-2/

                I recognised the seductive B.I.T.E., and I have been wondering ever since.

                The more I look the more I see a B.I.T.E. in progress, and that is why I wonder at what is going on! I have dealt with support for people withdrawing and recovering from cults. I have reason to be worried.

                • I did a quick scan of the article it seems unnecessarily complex and vague and doesn’t appear to say much. I saw the name of hugo quoted as if he is an authority that is worrying.

                  Most of what she says appears to be ”

                  The theory of rape culture causes fear of being raped and because of that fear generated by the theory of rape culture which she blames on rape culture justifies the theory of rape culture.

                  Am i missing anything important?

                  • Wow this article is terrible and on her huffington post article most comments are positive. Which is scary. Since its mainly more falsehoods she is propagating.

                    • I don’t understand what a blatantly dismissive article like this doing on a site where many of its readers are male victims and survivors of female abuse,

                      This is what inspiring debate means? To dismiss and ignore half the population of victims so as to get people “Thinking” about rape culture?

                    • I commented over there at huffington post but my blood has quickly boiled by reading their comments. She talks about misrepresentation in rape culture and does the same thing herself over in that article, I’m not too sure they want to end rape but I think they’re only concerned about ending any bad that happens to women.

                      She doesn’t need to make out male rape victimization, especially by females, is so rare that it isn’t worth talking about if she wants to talk about how bad female rape victimization is. I find it to be quite offensive actually, and the stats report she quotes contradicts what she said.

                      God help us if these are the type of people who run anti-rape awareness, the bias is just too harmful.

      • I notice that the last 12 months prevalency numbers from the NISVS 2010 Report from CDC (which you did link to in the article) are absent from this comment.
        Do you have any comment to that study and that finding (last 12 months prevalency numbers for men and women for rape and for “being made to penetrate someone else” p.17-19)?

        You also said:

        I maintain that there is a quantitative difference when you consider rape of females as part of a much larger system of violence, abuse and oppression that patriarchal power structures require.

        While in the article you said there is a qualitative difference. Which is it?

        And finally, since only men can stop rape, can you please tell me how I should’ve stopped the woman who decided to have intercourse with me while I was asleep?

        You made that blanket assertion and it’s only fair that you answer this question. Or perhaps you’d like to retract or modify that assertion?

      • No one argued that social norms do not affect how people respond to women’s sexual violence against men. The issue is how much of a factor feminism plays in perpetuating those views, and the study you cite does not disprove that.

        Secondly, the study challenges you notion that there is a “quantitative difference” due to social norms. From the study:

        Struckman-Johnson and Struckman-Johnson (1992) reported that approximately 18% of women and 22% of men believed that it is impossible to rape a man – regardless of perpetrator sex. The authors also reported that some subjects believed that men did not experience trauma due to a sexual assault by a woman (35% of men and 22% of women). The authors concluded that male rape myths were more likely to be accepted if the perpetrator was a woman. Thus, the use of pressure tactics or force by a woman could be seen as a method of foreplay and not aggression.

        Women’s sexual violence against men does not happen in a social vacuum. It is just as influenced by our society as any other form of violence, and the above quote shows how easily female perpetrators can hide their actions thanks to the myths. Also note that all the views presented in the above quote are commonly found in feminist literature about male victims.

        • Jacob – you can argue the point, but as there is a gender biased assessment tool for Rape Myth Analysis – Illinois Rape Myth Acceptance Scale(“IRMA”) – and it has been used to prove that there is only Mythology about Female Rape By Males, and that has then fed into the Rape Culture Meme, to the exclusion of all others…..

          It is 100% biased. Male Perp – Female Victim – so the more times it gets used, on both men and women, the greater the bias grows. It’s self perpetuating. Some can not and even will not grasp that. It’s too dangerous to have an open mind!

          Any studies that speak against it just get lost in the babble about how “IRMA” proves everything that some have decided is the totality of reality!

          ….and as many have observed, a closed mind or a closed door are not worth talking at!

          It reminds me of the old Yiddisher Market Seller Line “Don’t worry about the quality. Feel the width.”

          It would be something if some writers actually wrote from a position of authority and checked their references – but when they start by using a link to the Wikipedia, and a highly disputed and known inaccurate source – well it just shows that they are not interested in dialogue or communication and authority vanishes in less that a tweet ( 45 characters to be precise)!

          Down hill from the first line, and then they throw a few extra stats in the hope that a bone will keep the ignorant puppies quite and even confuse them!

          To err is human – to blog divine?

      • Soraya: “I maintain that there is a quantitative difference when you consider rape of females as part of a much larger system of violence, abuse and oppression that patriarchal power structures require.”

        There isn’t.

        Male victims are excluded from the discussion in popular circles of society and are forced to pretty much go underground if they ever want to gain a sympathetic eye to their plight when abused by females. I’d call that a form of oppression on equal levels to what you present.

        Unless you think all men have power so they’re still priveledged compared to female victims.

      • MorgainePendragon says:

        Thank you, Soraya, both for the original post and for this comment.

        50 years after she wrote it, Adrienne Rich’s poem Rape still speaks to the majority of female victims of rape. I would be interested to know if male victims feel that it speaks to them.

        http://marinagraphy.com/rape-power-adrienne-rich/

        Rape culture affects ALL of us– women who want to be safe no matter what we wear or where we go (and are sick of spending so much time, energy and money trying to ensure that we are); parents who want their children to be safe (or in fact, speaking as a non-parent adult, ANYONE who wants children to be safe); and men who are either raped/sexually assaulted AND those who only want to be seen as humans who desire a connection, NOT potential rapists.

        But as long as rape culture exists, then none of these wishes/desires are going to become reality.

        It seems to me that people who deny the existence of rape culture don’t actually WANT these things to come about.

        • I’m still unsure on rape culture, I can see the valid points raised, but I have to wonder if the way we talk about male rape leaves a rape culture for them? Recently I’ve read quite a few articles by feminists on rape culture and many seem to talk as if male rape is so rare that it’s not worth caring about, always that Womengetitworse mentality, even linking stats which have been proven to be biased but also prove there is far far more male rape victims than previously though, and a lot more female rapists than previously though. Does educating the public in a very biased way, minimizing the level of male victimization and female perpetration help cause rape culture? I would think that harmful stereotypes would add to it which is why it puzzles me that advocates for rape culture seem to fuel the very thing they hate?

          Also with rape culture, is it just rape culture or is it part of a violence culture? There are sickening levels of violence between the genders, both are victims and perps in many cases. Would the same principles of rape culture carry through there, like shaming of victims (eg questioning manhood at being beaten up) and victim blaming (eg, he deserved it is a common response to women hitting men, and there are also misogynist parts such as the stereotypical keeping a woman in line)

          In the poem it talks about the cop and the power, I can understand in some cases that attitudes can be troubling the and hoops that rape victims need to jump through can be a major problem. I know little on what female rape victims feel, see, or their experiences with the police but is this a common thing? Are there times where that power is seen in a good light, where a woman feels protected? Cops I’ve known speak in such a way that makes me believe they’d shoot the rapist no questions asked if they could get away with it and have done what they can to track down the scum, though this is after 2000 so times may have changed.

          I personally believe we suffer a culture of fear that is putting way way too much fear into women, and the emphasis on stranger danger seems to be misguided when really they should be worried about their partner, close friends and relatives more than some random person. Caution is ok but too much fear is harmful from what I’ve seen and experienced, when I become a parent I don’t want to pass that fear onto children. I don’t want my little girl or boy to be deathly afraid of strangers, they can be cautious of course but it has to be within reason. It doesn’t mean they should accept rides from strangers when young, but it does mean they shouldn’t end up paranoid when they’re out and about.

          We as a culture teach our girls to be so fearful of rape, but don’t seem to put this fear into men as much. Even though recent stats show the levels of rape are closer to parity than many realize, we mainly advocate for women victims and male rapists, are we adding to rape culture by failing to arm males with the right information on consent and even telling the MEN that they can say no, are we failing them by not speaking abut female rapists and male victims? Do we need to teach men the potential dangers of dating women or men, and women the potential dangers of dating men or women?

          I’m sure you’re aware but I’ll post again so it sinks in, Last 12 months, 1.1% of women were subject to rape or attempted rape, and 1.1% of men were forced to penetrate someone else (79.2% of those men report a woman forcing them to penetrate), so about 40% of rapists in the last 12 months were women, except the very biased definition of rape doesn’t include them at all. So we can go around saying women were raped more and men do almost all of the raping, except it’s just not true if you count being forced to penetrate as an act of rape. Is this dishonest use of statistics adding to rape culture? If you only answer 1 thing to me, answer this one because I am totally confused by why it even occurs.

          I also wonder why rape itself seems to be the main issue, why not other forms of sexual assault where studies show males do suffer a lot from as well as women, cdc stats show unwanted sexual contact for last 12 months as 2.2% for women, 2.3% for men, sexual coersion for last 12 months 2.0% for women, 1.5% for men, non contact unwanted sexual experiences for last 12 months 3.0% for women, 2.7% for men. These are very similar levels, and those experiences in itself can be quite traumatic.

          I’ve been groped on my manboobs as I am overweight, and it was done so in a sexual manner with the various insults of saying I had tits and was a woman. I didn’t enjoy it, I felt humiliated, others found out about it and girls and guys bullied me over it, I’ve had it happen in public during highschool and outside of it. After one incident the police came to school to talk to everyone about sexual harassment, which actually increased the level of verbal abuse I got from people belittling and making fun of me over it. I didn’t even fully understand it was sexual harassment until 9 years after when I had remembered what the police had told me, I still am not sure if it was actually sexual harassment but the police had said it was and others have told me so as well, it sure felt like sexual humiliation. I don’t like the fact I even need to try explain that it’s sexual harassment, it is an area that when fondled I view to be sexually senstive. I really I didn’t press charges because I knew I would have gotten even more bullying, I just wanted everyone to leave me alone and shutup about it. Thing is, I am a male, but I don’t see many people writing about experiences like mine and if it’s even a part of this rape culture.

          Men can stop rape, sure, women can too. Men can stop sexual assault, sure, women can too. I’d like to not be sexually assaulted by women, I’d like people not to joke about it either. I actually feel a level of shame for admitting it bothered me and I’m not sure exactly why, maybe it’s the expectation I should have enjoyed it? No, I didn’t enjoy it, it wasn’t during a mutual act where I could have grabbed her back and proceeded to sex, it was just her wanting to humiliate me. And yeah, some guys have done it to me too and I wanted to beat the living snot out of them for it but didn’t because I didn’t want legal trouble. Am I a victim of this rape culture? Can I expect women to speak up for me as men have for women?

        • Rape culture exists no more than [any other crime] culture.

          It is no coincidence that the term “rape culture” is not used by average women (i.e. the vast majority), women without an axe to grind against men, who get along just fine with men, who are not known for misandristic theories and policies. It is used virtually exclusively by feminists.

  35. Lastly, as Hugo Schwyzer pointed out here—which was one of the catalysts to huge controversy, men should be angry—not at feminists for describing rape culture, but at rape culture’s insistence on a vile definition of male sexuality that has violence at its core and that makes suspicion of all man the only rational approach to safety.
    Is this the same Hugo Schwyzer that seems to be unable to even mention male victims of female abuse/rape without immediately declaring that women have it worse? (http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/oh-dear/)
    It’s hard to step back from the horror of rape, particularly the rape of children, to consider the larger context in which it happens, especially in a forum dedicated to the primacy of individual stories and experiences. There is a qualitative difference between saying men rape women and women rape men and that difference gets eliminated when you tell individual stories without context.
    And it should be eliminated frankly in some places. Whether they are men, women, or children they are all part of one group, they are all rape victims. Trying to bring up the qualitative difference is fine well and good when talking about women being raped. However that qualitative difference should not be the end all be all of rape awareness simply because that difference doesn’t cover all rape victims.
    And speaking of dominating the discourse let’s look at something you said near the end.
    Only men can stop rape.
    I’ve never been raped by a woman but that line pisses me off enough that I’m willing to bet it would do the same (if not something different or worse) to people who have been raped by a woman. And in fact that little catchphrase is nice example as to why people feel the need to point out that women do commit rape. When that quantitative difference dominates the discourse (or when it becomes the discourse) and erases victims then its become a problem.

    So is this a piece on rape culture or just another defense of feminism piece? Whle you’re lecturing people to stop blaiming feminists why not take a moment or two to engage with feminists who actually do erase male victims?

  36. Forgive me if I have been delving in search of answers. I am looking for The List of Actual Advisors and Groups who were party to the discussions on the Formulation Of the New Rape Definition which the FBU have been trumpeting today.

    However as one delves one does come across some very odd things!

    I see that even systems have been getting updated to deal with new definition of rape and believe it or not The FBI even explain the past odd statistics and the gender bias that has been ongoing:

    “NATIONAL INCIDENT-BASED REPORTING SYSTEM (NIBRS)

    How does the NIBRS differ from the Summary reporting system?

    The NIBRS has much more detail in its reporting system than the traditional Summary reporting system. In the NIBRS, agencies collect offense information on 46 crimes known as Group A offenses; in the Summary system, agencies collect offense information on eight crimes known as Part I offenses. In the NIBRS, an updated definition of rape includes both male and female victims; in the Summary system, only females can be reported as rape victims. The Summary system does not differentiate between attempted and completed offenses. The NIBRS does. ”
    http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/faqs.htm

    So anyone quoting stats can be show the admission by the FBI that their Historical Systems and any data being reported from them – interpreted from them – and connected to them was subject to Gender Bias where rape is concerned. It’s all been the fault of the Dumb Machines.

    Also there has been no differentiation between attempted Attempted Rape and Actual Rape?

    Well when eveyting is rape it does tend to make the stats a bit odd! Nice Dumb Machine Bias there too!

    As they say “… the Summary system, only females can be reported as rape victims.” What a whopping Big Bias That has been!

    And some think it’s all the fault of the Dumb Machines. Here we see the interplay of Dumb Programmers, who Programme the Dumb machines, which produce Dumb Output which Dumb Humans ( and Quite a few none dumb ones who have spotted the loophole and wish to Exploit it ) Represent as Gospel the Dumb Output, and insisting that Only Men Rape Women – Only Women Get Raped – the figures are massive….. and it’s all The Men’s Fault And Responsibility.

    Personally, I’d start with Checking the Gender of the Programmers and work on it from there!

    I wonder how many other Faulty Systems there have been and just how they have been exploited?

    I find it deeply Ironic that in a post above I was actually explaining how Institutional Bias can be programmed into systems – and the the FBI are saying they have done it! Boy do I wish I had been in the position of Exploiting the contract to get that little mess addressed. It would have been worth Millions!

    I wonder who else has had systems dealing with Gender Violence programmed the same way?

  37. This auto refresh is pissing me off to no end.

  38. I was watching King of Queens last night. Doug and Carrie are pissed because they contracted some Russians to clear mold for them but the Russians do a bad job. At the end of the show Carrie says:

    If I ever see you out on the street and I am in my car I will run you over and then I will run you over again and again. Then I will get out of my car and that is when the fun begins because I am going to beat you…”

    So do we live in a murder culture. Is murder normalized? No. I never thought so. I also didn’t think Carrie would really do any of those things. Its a joke in a comedy and its partly about how Carrie is a tough New Yorker who won’t take shit from anyone. It was a funny joke. The laugh track was on. But I would never extrapolate from this the idea that actual murder is normal or that murder is normalized in our culture.

  39. Repost

    Take note everyone.

    The movement for manipulative false accusing harpies (feminism) are trying to suppress female on child abuse and are making huge roll backs in civil rights for men in Australia based on their false accusation that abuse is gendered.

    Details here

    .avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/australia-launches-the-plan-and-the-end-to-civil-rights/

    • EDIT – “.. are trying to suppress information about female in male child abuse ….”

      ADD – Its utterly sicking what this group are up to behind the wall of naive fun feminists.

      • Just read this, if it’s true then quite frankly I really hate our government for daring to support it. I cannot stand Australia’s radfem movement that seems to have power, burying of stats? Instantly lose all credibility. I eagerly await the rest of the articles, the proof so to speak linking to which parts of that 204 page document because it’s a very important document to debate against and try restore some sanity into Australian law reform.

        • From a small amount of looking it appears “the plan” and what they are talking about looks legit.

          for instance they advocate the duluth model. Which is horribly broken.

          There is a recommendation to strengthen media and internet standards to address sexualized and denigrating portrals of women. How they expect to censor the internet worries me. They mention male victims at the start but give a low number for male victims and then when providing services completely ignores male victims. Also they want to remove forcing someone to pay legal fees of their opponent if they are found to be falsifying evidence. Since that might make women afraid to come forward. They mention creating best practice programs to address violence in lesbian relationshipts. So gay men apparently don’t count?

          Likely a fair amount of stuff i missed.

          • I hope someone can gather the bad in it, I have to find out who to contact to see if something can be done to remove the harmful parts.

            “Also they want to remove forcing someone to pay legal fees of their opponent if they are found to be falsifying evidence.” Is this a common practice by actual victims? Because actual victims shouldn’t need to falsify anything, and I don’t believe simply having evidence that doesn’t stick would trigger that, only genuine cases of falsifying evidence? If that doesn’t exist, it needs to so that people who genuinely provide evidence won’t be harmed, even if the evidence isn’t enough. Falsifying evidence is wrong and totally against the very notion of our justice system, it’s CORRUPTION.

            I’d like to see some feminists actually comment on it once there is more reported on it, if what I’ve seen so far on it is true I highly doubt anyone who actually believes in equality would support those measures. There are much better ways to get things done, you don’t need to harm a gender to save the other, it leaves way too much open to abuse. The fact you can falsify evidence would mean it would be a tactic USED by abusers.

            Really losing faith atm…

            • Archy: “I’d like to see some feminists actually comment on it once there is more reported on it, if what I’ve seen so far on it is true I highly doubt anyone who actually believes in equality would support those measures. There are much better ways to get things done, you don’t need to harm a gender to save the other, it leaves way too much open to abuse. The fact you can falsify evidence would mean it would be a tactic USED by abusers.”

              I wouldn’t hold my breath, Archy.

              The day this will happen is the day pigs will fly. Harming male victims in order to help female victims has been imbedded in culture for a long time.

              Of course, that’s just my cynicism speaking.

            • “Also they want to remove forcing someone to pay legal fees of their opponent if they are found to be falsifying evidence.” Is this a common practice by actual victims? ”

              I believe the law was changed during john howards reign as pm it also made a presumption of shared custody i don’t know the full details though just from memory. It could of been happening before or might vary from state to state.

              What they are suggesting is that women might not give evidence because of a fear they won’t be believed and will have to pay costs. There is no evidence i can find that supports this being the case though. It might be there i haven’t spent a lot of time looking.

              “I’d like to see some feminists actually comment on it once there is more reported on it, if what I’ve seen so far on it is true I highly doubt anyone who actually believes in equality would support those measures. There are much better ways to get things done, you don’t need to harm a gender to save the other, it leaves way too much open to abuse. The fact you can falsify evidence would mean it would be a tactic USED by abusers.”

              The way its presented though, unless you know what you are looking for you might miss a lot. Male victims are claimed as 2% for men, compared to women being 20%. This view is then expanded and assumed that women are always the victim. So anything that stops women giving evidence is considered bad. Most people who will read this will have a “women/victim men need to change view” especially since the first half of the document attempts to justify and solidify that view. If you come from a position of ignorance about the issues and your views were only informed by media and white ribbon stuff even if you are not sexist nothing will scream this is sexist while reading it.

              “Really losing faith atm…”

              These are just recommendations (although presented in a very biased way). The hard part will be presenting a counter in a way that won’t be immediately discarded as whining or inference that you must hate women if you want to oppose recommendations that are to protect women. The document is well presented and seems reasonable at first. So overcoming that and suggesting there is bias will be difficult.

              I am not sure of how seriously this will be taken seriously by either politicians or the government employees though. It might make some public service departments change there policy without a need to change law. It might end up with labour attempting to change the law.

              This needs to be seen by people who have experience with these kinds of documents or how the recommendations will be implemented if at all. I am not a person who can give certainty about anything to do with this.

  40. Richard Aubrey says:

    voon. What are you talking about?

  41. Okay commenters; where then, are the men, sometimes accompanied by women they’re clearly abjectly terrified of, coming into hospital to get their broken and bloodied gentalia fixed? It’s just Hospital staff aren’t seeing that on any scale like the depressing amount of times this happens to women and children. Or even the scale where men come in trying to tell them that the wierd object lodged up their butt got their when they accidentally “fell on it”. ..

    So is this something like Arabian girls forced underground, paying some charlatan doctor to graft a hymen back in because of “family honor”?
    Are there secret, back street dick clinics that I’m not allowed to know about because I’ll report it to the evil hive mind?
    If not, could you perhaps set some up instead of coming in here and getting all David Icke on the comments section?

    • @ Voon

      “Okay commenters; where then, are the men, sometimes accompanied by women they’re clearly abjectly terrified of, coming into hospital to get their broken and bloodied gentalia fixed?”

      You wouldn’t even consider making such a comment if you had, like myself, actually been the person who got called out of bed in the early hours to take a person to The Emergency Room AGAIN – because when they attended the first time they were not believed and were dismissed. It’s quite something having to read legal chapter and verse to the Hospital Staff to address some prejudices that they should not have brought to work with them.

      “It’s just Hospital staff aren’t seeing that on any scale like the depressing amount of times this happens to women and children. ”

      Nope – it has been a factor that Hospital Reporting Systems and Data Systems have been programmed with Institutional Bias!

      When they have a system that is supposedly logic lead, and you input the gender/sex as female and afterwards the Tick Box Rape appears. Contrast that with an input of gender/sex as male which has no such option. Real World Examples are Shocking!

      The machine is a dumb machine – and from experience, I have had to deal with both Dumb Programmers and Dumb System Users. You would expect a Doctor screaming at you that he has 5 Degrees, 3 Post Grad, and is one of the top doctors in the world to be able to use a tad of logic and recognise an issue like that – wouldn’t you?

      It’s even worse when the Hospital legal counsel is telling the hospital to defend the Crap Systems and Programming – else to correct them would in fact be an admission of liability and legal failure!

      The same applies with age related programming which has specific age barriers set such as under 13 is listed as Child Sexual Abuse – over 13 the tick box for Rape is dependent on the prior gender input! So if you are male you have to get raped early, or else you “Just Don’t Count”!

      Maybe you have not had the Joyouse experience of Training and Hospital Managers and System Programmers how to get out of a mindset that makes output stats and views Gender Biased and a Pile of JUNK?

      I have – and when necessary I Train with a Whip and a Chair!

      “Or even the scale where men come in trying to tell them that the wierd object lodged up their butt got their when they accidentally “fell on it”. ..”

      Nice Homophobic dig there, so don’t try it again,

      As I have already pointed out, when Recording and Data Systems are programmed with Gender Bias – you can have the absurd situation of a Male Rape Victim Presenting with the Aggressor still inserted – and the Computer due to faulty programming and logic says comes back with an output of “Accident involving penetration injury”.

      Not very accurate is it?

      “Are there secret, back street dick clinics that I’m not allowed to know about because I’ll report it to the evil hive mind?”

      No – but there are many Physicians in private practice which do deal with the medical needs of victims and also address such matters as Privacy – Confidentiality – And even Anonymity!

      Do you need the relevant contact details for anyone in particular?

      Contact me Privately, and I will respect your Confidentiality and treat the request as Anonymous!

    • Voon, the only one going David Icke here in the comments section is you and your attempts to, like the author of this piece, divert the issue that other commentators have brought up with the blatant bias and misandric bigotry said article peddles in the guise of “Advocacy and Awareness”.

      But I’m not surprised anymore. Change doesn’t happen overnight so they’ll be people still blinded by their ignorance.

      Voon: “Okay commenters; where then, are the men, sometimes accompanied by women they’re clearly abjectly terrified of, coming into hospital to get their broken and bloodied gentalia fixed?”

      Here, let me give you a direct and honest answer that you hopefully will walk away with humbled and educated.

      These men you speak of are afraid of people like you and the author of this article dismissing their pain, concerns, and injuries by saying “Women have it worse”. And no, don’t you even bother bringing in “It’s Machismo that makes them afraid to speak out, fight that instead” because that is also another reason debunked to infinity. These men are afraid of being disbelieved, laughed at, ostrtacised and frankly minimised by you and the author’s prejeduical belifes. Your disregard for half the population of the world doesn’t help.

      I’ve got another idea, voon, if you think men who are abused aren’t important compared to women, read my “Bullied by Girls and Women: One Man’s Account” article published on this site. Heck, go to “Survivor’s Tales: Victims of Female Abuse Come Forward”, another article and haven created in collaboration by me, Lisa Hickey and other moderators on this site and listen to men and women relaying their stories of abuse from female perpetrators. I should warn you, if you show the same disregard you’ve shown here, your comments will be deleted as the haven is a strictly moderated safe space for victims and survivors to feel safe. Also in the “Bullied By Girls and Women” article, if you show the same level of disregard you will hear from me in the comments section because I will not tolerate people who dismiss and minimize a population of victims and survivors of female abuse.

      The world is changing. Deal with it.

  42. I was wondering, if it was a “Typo”!

    … and I have to say I did give “Benefit Of The Doubt”. I was going to raise it, as I am aware that some would see “No Doubt” and would ever so happily swoop upon it and seek to exploit! P^/

    Bees and honey pots come to mind!

    But then again, I have noted a clear absence of those characters in recent days too! Maybe they are still wondering at the Laughter from the God Of Gender Wars?

  43. Well then, although I sympathize with the intent of the writer which I’m assuming is women’s sovranty,
    I think I’ll just take my usual stance of individual responsibility over collective guilt.

    I don’t rape, I don’t condone rape and I associate with people who promote rape.

    It’s not my job however to prosecute or defend the Kobe Bryants, the Julian Assanges, the Dominique Strauss-kahns or Duke Lacross teams of the world before they’ve had their day in court.

  44. Richard Aubrey says:

    Advocates always need bigger numbers. If some is bad, more is better and a lot is wonderful.
    If there were enough rape to satisfy the advocates that they had the social clout to do whatever is on their minds, we wouldn’t see the drunken thrashings of a couple of nineteen year olds hauled into the numbers by defining this as rape.
    We have no more rape culture because of the way the word is used in other contexts than we have a murder culture when a mom says, “I’ll kill that kid.”
    A nonsensical article.

  45. I read this piece and the only thing I can say of it is that the Author is highly conflicted in attempting to restructure the model of “Rape Culture” to address the changing definition of Rape. It’s Bizarre. The mental processes and gymnastics are Cult Like.

    I have written here on GMP on the B.I.T.E, model of cult thinking and how it relates to the “Rape Culture”.
    http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/140-characters-is-not-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-88281

    I have also been writing about the origins of the Term “Rape Culture” who who coined the term.
    http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/140-characters-is-not-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-88203

    The Whole US centric Rape Culture Meme is bizarre and out of date. It fails to keep pace with International definitions of rape. Definition:

    “a physical invasion of a sexual nature, committed on a person under circumstances which are coercive”

    It was adopted into International law as a result of 2 September 1998, ref International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, THE PROSECUTOR VERSUS JEAN-PAUL AKAYESU, Case No. ICTR-96-4-T.

    I have even discussed the Impact of that little International issue and it’s implications on such things as The Geneva Conventions – http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/in-defense-of-storytelling-a-hat-tip-to-hugo-schwyzer/comment-page-2/#comments

    That’s 13 years plus and still the reality and gender neutrality is being denied by the people who dwell in the House they built and called Rape Culture.

    So the Author starts with a question, “Do you really doubt the idea of rape culture?” and even links it to that fountain of accuracy and unbiased information “Wikipedia” and the definition of “Rape Culture” there.

    The following is amusing;

    “The term was used as a title of a 1975 documentary film, Rape Culture, produced and directed by Margaret Lazarus and Renner Wunderlich for Cambridge Documentary Films…”

    Actually, the usage of the term “Rape Culture” was not incidental, it is the first traceable source of the term. Even the citation from the “Encyclopedia Of Rape” is misleading and fails to provided an originating source -only a nebulous reference to it being about in the 1970’s.

    One would expect someone somewhere wanting to claim the Academic Merit and acclaim of being the first to have Put it on paper and told the world what “Rape Culture” is supposed to be?

    It is odd that some have written so poorly on the subject of “Rape Culture” in an attempt to define it for the world, and yet can’t even get the citations of origin correct.

    So the Author Starts with a question linked to an inaccurate source and then sets out to answer the question for the reader in the Affirmative, and the errors role onwards from there. So that is the “First Line” where the errors start and they roll on from there.

    The Authors views and rhetoric have to gymnastically jump through so many hoops to keep the Rape Culture Meme intact and functional. Some are clearly at risk of of injury – Those who keep climbing over the structure are at risk of falling off and of structural collapse, and all other passers by are fed up of being hit by the nuts, bolts and other sundry pieces that keep falling off the poorly constructed and ignorantly maintained rickety model house that Rape Culture supposedly lives in.

    “These examples are rape culture manifest. If you are not sure what rape culture looks like, this is it: sexual violence—overwhelmingly against girls and women—tolerated, excused and normalized through attitudes, norms, practices, and media.”

    So YET AGAIN readers are told what the model looks like, but as usual there is no actual definition of The Model, no source for the Model, no Citation of where the model comes from.

    I can say this is what Dragons Look Like, but it does not make them a concert reality.

    It would be like me saying a straight woody thing with green at the top is a model of a tree. It could just as easily be a lollipop or fairground cotton candy with some green dye.

    “I can tell you what it looks like” is not the a valid argument of what something is! Using that mentality and rhetoric is Propaganda. Concretization of a social model as if it has a physical reality is a fallacy that far too many have been gulled into accepting for far too long! It is a factor of cult thinking.

    The “Overwhelming” trope comes out – so the model of rape culture can’t stand without that piece of scaffolding and that brace to hold it up – and the author has just before that attempted to rebuild the model with a nice extra piece “Penn State/Sandusky”. So In the Rape Culture model you apply a media “poster child” to paper over the cracks and hide a few issues.

    And yet, the author also argues that single cases are of no value in articulating Rape Culture. Sorry – one example does not a model or a piece of a model make, but here I use a poster child to paper over the cracks. “Look I have done such a nice job of papering over the cracks and making it all real so you have to accept it!”. It beggars belief!

    “There are lots of ways that we talk about rape that perpetuate myths or diffuse the reality of what is an overwhelmingly gendered crime, the threat and reality of which vastly disproportionately affects women.”

    There are lots of ways that we talk about rape that perpetuate myths or diffuse the reality “PERIOD”

    There should have been a period there as it is a complete clause. It is true. Myths and the diffusion of reality are the issue, But, there is no period and the mythology and diffusion are allowed to mistily roll on to mistily be Overwhelming and mistily become gendered and mistily end up vast and mistily disproportionate and all about women in a fog of Rape Culture supported by mist!

    .. and the “Disproportionate” trope comes out to add more scaffolding to the rickety Model. It doesn’t even explain effects – the effects are lost in the mists and with it the causes of all are obscured by mist, fog and the hazy structure that some keep on demanding to have a “Concrete” Reality.

    The FOG and the HAZINESS, The Nebulosity of words do clear for one moment towards the end of the piece:

    “The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape. ”

    Only men can stop rape?

    It’s not true in any way – but it does show the truth of the author and why they have so much trouble using words to cover up with Fog, Haphazardness and the lack of rigour that comes from living in and supporting such rickety houses as Rape Culture.

    The author also falls into an “egregious fallacy” that just shows the muddled thinking. They agree that women rape too and then state “Only men can stop rape”.

    How odd for a supposed feminist writer to support utter patriarchy and state men have the control and women none. Even when the woman is the one responsible for the act.

    So all readers – you have it in a nuts shell – “Only men can stop rape” – so it’s up to men to hold all rapists of all genders/sexes to account and that includes women who rape men and other women.

    So lets get to it!

    Any objections from any person of any Ideology are Null And Void, because someone with Misty ideas and thinking about a Poorly Constructed and Irrationally Articulated Social Model has said it’s all up to the men! ONLY Men are responsible and the only one’s who can stop it. ONLY MEN have all the responsibility!

    So the writer’s views are Rape Culture is not only about men – It’s the full Responsibility of Men and men have total ownership of it!

    I wonder where men should start in taking all the Responsibility? I wonder if there should not be a vote first, with the vote being for the banning of the term Rape Culture and it’s misty misuse for the safety of all?

    So for Style and content 1 out of ten.

    For Originality 5 out of ten due to the nouvelle gymnastics even if they have resulted in a high fall and self inflicted injuries.

    For Artistic merit minus 10 due to the fallacy of embedding Patriarchy in such an egregious and highly comical fashion.

    Some really need to go back to the Drawing Board and look at the Model House they are insisting on building. The more and more they keep on fighting to keep that castle in the air the more abstract it all becomes and the more bizarre the mental processes to keep it flying.

    If some want to discuss Rape Culture they really do need to go back to basics, and it is clear that just as people who have developed Cult Thinking find it very hard to straiten out their minds when the Cult is exploded, the same applies to the bizarre US Centric “Rape Culture” meme and it’s recent high level of abuse and misuse linked to the Slutwalk phenomenon.

    It has all the Hallmarks of Marketing and none of the Hallmarks of rational reality.

    One has to also wonder why the defence of Rape Culture relies so much on statistics that have been generated by those who accept the Model Of Rape Culture as gendered and polarised as only one gender as Perpetrator and one as Victim. There is a slight issue of essentialist thinking and resultant bias there, which has been ongoing for a few decades!

    If such flawed figures were being used to justify race issues there would be hell to play.

    One wonders how the figures would read if Gender Neutrality was attempted? Look at the CDC – and their findings. It’s shocking when you see Parity as in EQUAL and the Whole Rickety Rape Culture model that has been cobbled together for so long starts to fall apart due to there being faulty foundations from Day One!

    Nice Try – No Cigar!

    Back to the Drawing Board and look for actual sources next time – it can be a revelation!

    • Mediahound

      Please submit your findings in article form to the gmp!

      • What makes you think I have not?

      • Dear Man

        you said “Please submit your findings in article form to the gmp!”

        I have put together a scratch outline on the history and origin of the term Rape Culture.

        It can be found http://meddlingrationalarchivist.wordpress.com/rape-culture/

        I have also lodged formal written submission with Wikipedia for the inaccurate and misleading page on rape Culture to be corrected or deleted.

        It has also been “”noted”” that someone has not been following Wikipedia rules on links and citation, so links from other Wiki pages to the Film “Rape Culture” 1975 are misdirected to the inaccurate page titled Rape Culture. Rather Naughty!

        I may be some time!

    • Interestingly you can insert “Satan” or “Satanism” anywhere you see the term “rape Culture” and the article still makes about the same amount of sense. Also interestingly is the idea that rape jokes, rape depicted in video games and other media, rape surveys on school campuses, or the changing of the meaning of the word itself are all somehow tied to the criminal act without making explicitly clear how those things are all connected. The author merely throws them out there then seems to allow the audience to make the connections themselves.

  46. Graham Phoenix says:

    I am puzzled and I feel completely sidelined. I am an ordinary man and I feel out of place here now. Why is feminist writing such as this appearing here. It does not help me as a man, I’d be interested to know if it helps anyone.

    This is the writing of a political/social activist. I’m sure there are people who want to read it. I just don’t think they’re the readers this site was developed for.

    • Graham – I do grasp your frustrations and concerns.

      I am going to make a Grossly Contentious Comment here.

      Having dealt with Equality Issues in Europe and even on a global basis for some 30 years covering gender, race, sexuality and disability, when I first started reading GMP I was bemused by what appeared to be A US based phenomenon of MRA Politicisation and Site Trolling.

      However, as I have read and investigated over the last three months I have actually developed great sympathy for the Misandry that is being peddled against men in a most US Centric fashion. The rape Culture meme and misuse is just the evident tip of the iceberg.

      This piece, and it’s embedded fallacies from line one, just shows to me how there is a thinking pattern and meme that is dangerous and being allowed to run riot. I would expect in future any such piece to be balanced with a clear counter piece to ensure that such biases are addressed and not allowed to continue prorogation. It is insufficient for just comment to be allowed.

      I would expect both pieces to be published at the same time and cross referenced to stop the practice of net linking by some which repeatedly portrays GMP as supporting fallacy and slopping thinking that supports Misandry.

      It seems that a personal bugbear of mine and one which I actually advocate against is needed – and that Is Affirmative Action.

      I would also expect any future pieces dealing with supposed proof of the Model of “Rape Culture” to point out one simple fact. The US Government itself will not use the term, and it does not support or endorse the term. If the Government itself is not agreeing with it use after some 40 years, one does have to wonder why!

      The term “Rape Culture” and those who insist it is modelled and operates as they claim are being given a Privileged Position, which is being abused. Privilege is like that in Divers Politics and Privilege is as much open to abuse in one way as another!

      It is time for such misuse to be controlled and where possible stopped.

    • “This is the writing of a political/social activist. I’m sure there are people who want to read it. I just don’t think they’re the readers this site was developed for.”

      You are sadly mistaken, Graham.

  47. Graham Phoenix says:

    “tolerated, excused and normalized”

    By who? Not me or anyone I know, male or female! You make extraordinary assumptions, you generalise the particular. You see it everywhere. That says more about you than anyone else.

    I have not experienced rape, I know no-one who has, I would not tolerate rape, I know no-one who would.

    But then I don’t live in the US, does that make a difference?

  48. This is the same argument about Rape Culture I’ve heard enough times and I’m tired of it.

    With light being shed on the fact that men experience rape and abuse from females at equal levels as women do from males, articles like this goes to show people will hold on tight to whatever belife they see fit and refuse to join in the here and now.

    Rape Culture includes male victims of female abuse and the downplaying of the issue by people like the author of this piece.

    You want to live in a world where women are forever victims and have it worse than men? Fine, do it.

    Meanwhile, us here in the real world are going to address and include male victims and boys without the “But women…” whatever.

    Author: “Our news media has been filled, sadly, in recent years by stories of boys being raped by priests, coaches and other trusted adults. But these reports, which highlight the vulnerability of boys, is disproportionate considering female rape as part of a pandemic spectrum of sexual violence against girls and women, which typically begins at adolescence and, unlike the abuse of boys, does not taper down after adolescence. This isn’t dismissing boys’ abuse or adult male victimization—”

    Yes it is, no matter how many times you stick your finger in your ear and shout otherwise.

    With this, you’ve just called every boy’s experience at the hands of abusive priests, coaches, and other trusted adults as irrelevant compared to the girls.

    You’d better be prepared because people who care about male victims, and even male victims themselves, are not going to take this lying down.

    Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

  49. This article its a disgusting piece of propaganda and hate speech.

    When feminists like this, and that’s most feminists lie about rape being gendered and act like women don’t rape men and children, they promote an actual rape culture.

  50. “According to the CDC study, in the US, between 1% and 2% of men have been raped or experienced an attempted rape, often by an intimate partner, almost always male, (many when they were younger than 11) compared to 20% of women.
 That 1-2% is a total – not just those where there may be female perpetrators.”

    “This isn’t dismissing boys’ abuse or adult male victimization, only pointing out a bias in coverage that incorporates typical approaches to “debunking” rape realities and perpetuating rape myths. ”

    It’s all well n good to point out the “rape” statistics but do take a look at those stats on the last 12 months, 1.1% of women were subject to attempted or successful rape and 1.1% of men were forced to penetrate their abuser, 79.2% of those men reported the abuser was FEMALE.

    Can you explain to me why NO NEWS OUTLET seems to even talk about this? Or why you failed to notice it? Are people trying to bury this stat for some reason? Because in my book the continual ignorance surrounding a very key stat showing in the last 12 months, 40% of rapists are FEMALE (by many peoples definition forcing someone to penetrate IS rape). Are you suffering from rape culture yourself in not mentioning it?

    I’ll spell it out for you and everyone else. These stats highlight that the rate of women raping men has either increased dramatically, or we are only now learning about it. There is major bias in what rape is defined as, the fact that forced to penetrate/envelopment still isn’t accepted by the FBI nor the CDC report I feel is directly causing the belief that male rape by females is much less than reality. Many feminists I’ve read seem to have done this same thing, their silence, ignorance, or whatever is stopping them from noticing that fact after people have shouted it out really makes me question if they want to actually stop rape culture, and stop rape. Are they only interested in stopping rape perpetrated by males?

    “In statistical terms, however, right now, while data on female sexual assault is hard to gather and verify for reasons listed below, it’s exactly like pointing out that some men get breast cancer every time the subject of women’s breast cancer fatalities comes up.”
    Men get breast cancer at 1%, males are being raped at a similar level than females according to that cdc report, it’s a bad comparison to make and dishonest to make.

    “There are lots of ways that we talk about rape that perpetuate myths or diffuse the reality of what is an overwhelmingly gendered crime, the threat and reality of which vastly disproportionately affects women.”
    It disproportionately affects women because the definition of rape used by oh so many stats does NOT allow for women to rape men by envelopment, the very definition has a huge bias so trying to suggest it disproportionately affects women is quite offensive really. It also disproportionately paints men as rapists, what 99% of the time? even though the expanded rape definition shows 40% of WOMEN were rapists in the last 12 months.

    Quite frankly if this is the stuff RAINN does, I have 0 trust for them. It took mra’s here a few hours to spot a major statistic, groundbreaking news, yet I haven’t seen a single thing mentioned of it by anti-rape campaigners who blog, the anti-rape groups, toysoldier was the only blogger I noticed who mentioned about it (High 5 TS, you deserve a nice bottle of scotch, and to DB, Mediahound and others who spotted it a bottle each:P).

    I’m not sure I trust the DOJ, they denied funding to studies of male DV up until recently. Biased views of what rape is, in a way that denies many male rape victims the ability to be seen as such and spouted out by anti-rape activists is either pure ignorance, or pure evil. If you go saying women suffer this much rape and dodgy up the definition to exlude a huge proportion of male victims, I don’t trust you. If that’s not a pure definition of misandry then I dont know what is but I’m tired of people painting men worse than they are with dishonest usage of statistics.

    There’s no logical way that a stat like this could go unnoticed except to try bury the fact that in the last 12 months, 40% of rapists/sexualassaulters seemed to be female according to that stat. If others have talked about it, please link me and I’ll admit I’m wrong but it doesn’t look too good from what I’ve seen. I truly want to be wrong on this, because being right would not be good at all. Our men, women, and children deserve better than continuing the bias’d view of abuse. Is this part of the rape culture you speak of?

    Whilst the definition of rape excludes so many men, it is absolutely f’ing pointless to compare women and men’s experiences in sexual abuse, or even dare try suggest women get it worse. When the stats and reporting are completely unbiased, then you may compare them but until then, BZZT.

    • Archy

      “I’ll spell it out for you and everyone else. These stats highlight that the rate of women raping men has either increased dramatically, or we are only now learning about it.”

      I am of the view that the Rape Culture meme has caused gross bias in research and the matter is only now being uncovered in US Statistics.

      A meme is “an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture.” A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate and respond to selective pressures.

      That is one of the reasons I am so shocked by the operation of that Meme in the US and the bias it has engenders and been allowed to engender. The Rape Culture Meme is self referential, self defending and self supporting. Anyone who even questions the Existence or Validity of “Rape Culture” as a “Concretized” reality is attacked by people infected with the Meme. The fallacies that follow are even more comical.

      Who ever has been peer reviewing such research needs to be stripped of any academic credibility they claim to have. They appear to be Meme hosts too, and as One of my favourite clear thinkers said “Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.” Albert Einstein

      I fear that some of the people who have Peer Reviewed Research and it’s outputs have not even got out of high school due to Prejudices supporting a Meme that does not pass the most basic of Academia Rigour.

    • David Byron says:

      “Can you explain to me why NO NEWS OUTLET seems to even talk about this?”

      Sure. Feminism is the state supported policy of gender, and these results are anathema to feminism. This is not the first time they’ve deliberately covered up statistics showing male victims exist in comparable numbers to women. They did that with domestic violence for forty years (and still are to a large extent). In exchange for that feminism helps out the government get its wars on.

  51. The CDC survey that you cite indicates that, in the last year, 1.1% of women experienced completed or attempted forced penetration.

    And, in the last year 1.1% of men experienced completed or attempted forced envelopment.

    Both of these are rape. Rape is not gendered.

  52. First, who exactly is it claiming that men just can’t control themselves and will be forced to rape a woman if she doesn’t stop them? Having actually gone through one of those it’s-a-flower-and-condoms-don’t-work abstinence-only programs, the only times I ever saw anything related suggested were like the cited example: suggesting women should dress modestly so as not to provoke lustful thoughts. While I can see where those unfamiliar with a churchy context might only see this as victim-blaming, it’s in the same context as other churchy admonitions I’ve seen not to drink around alcoholics, or tell a girl you have feelings for her because she might get emotionally attached, or whatever. It’s essentially saying, “We are a community, and you need to do this to help other members of the community.”

    There is a strong sense of mutual obligation in helping each other to avoid sin, and while in the churchy context it was gendered in that different things were generally expected of the sexes, I don’t think the burden overwhelmingly fell on girls to help boys….except maybe in this very specific context. (After all, the abstinence-only class was teaching boys to save themselves, too.) I can see the concern if this stuff is being taught in school (it’s not clear from the link in your article whether these are secular school or workbooks, or workbooks used in church programs), but within the community of the church it makes perfect sense to expect the members to help each other stay on the straight and narrow.

    Second, do we talk about normalizing dead baby culture because of dead baby jokes? No. Because we recognize that the entire point of these jokes (except among sociopaths) is to get a shock laugh. Rape jokes are the same way. I don’t think there are very many people who think it’s OK to commit rape just because Sarah Silverman made a combination Jewish/rape joke about her doctor (though if you think some do, then you personally are culpable for giving her attention). I’m not saying this to be obtuse or obstinate and I think it’s *possible* for rape jokes to be used to normalize rape, but I think that most people who aren’t already sociopaths understand the context of the jokes.

    Third, I certainly alter my lifestyle so as to minimize my likelihood of being victimized. True enough, I’m not primarily concerned with rape, but crime is crime.

    Fourth, as worthless as rapists are there isn’t some invisible “system” they’re all plugged into, trying to oppress women. Some undoubtedly want to punish women. Some feel that domination makes them more of a man. But I think part of why many men rebel so strongly at ideas like patriarchy or rape culture is that it’s painted as some huge conspiracy to keep women down. And I just think that’s ridiculous. Individual stories are important because we are individuals, not just cogs in the system.

  53. David Byron says:

    Stopped reading after the highly offensive language in line one.

    I did notice the author has no bio details.
    She has a bio at HuffingtonPost I found:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly

    • Ah here. That’s not on. If the author has no bio details, it’s because she didn’t want to include her bio details and that’s her business. I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve by linking to her HuffPost bio, but it’s both disrespectful and irrelevant to the article.

      • Marianne – I have to disagree.

        The author has made some Extremely Inflammatory comments which do need the context of their personal position. …and I see that a bio has suddenly appeared.

        “Soraya L. Chemaly is writer whose work focuses on cultivating feminism through humour. She writes for The Huffington Post, The Good Men Project, The Feminist Wire, BitchFlicks and Fem2.0 among other venues. She is the creator of periodic blogs Poog: A Goop Spoof and
        http://www.guidetomanicmoms.wordpress.com, and the YouTube video series, She Said What?, all designed to illustrate the absurdity of common gender assumptions. You can find her at http://www.sorayachemaly.tumblr.com or Twitter @schemaly. ”

        Well – there aint much HUMOUR in what has been written – and as for “designed to illustrate the absurdity of common gender assumptions.”… exactly how does that fit with such content as “Raising the specter of women raping boys implies a false equivalence and doesn’t help us understand and change a culture where rape—the power, the crime, the threat, and the jokes—is acceptable.?

        Rape of who by who? Who says it’s acceptable?

        Oh maybe having the cultural norm of ignoring – dismissing – shaming Male Rape Victims may need to be addressed too – so that there is a Real Equivalence in treatment of All Rape Victims so that there can be an Equivalence of becoming a Rape Survivor.

        I love the entry “The problem of rape is not a problem of individual men and women. It’s a culture that we live with—a systemization of harm that we are immersed in. Rape, regardless of whom it happens to, is horrible and violent and dehumanizing. Only men can stop rape.”

        Are the readers Laughing at the supposed Humour and loving the supposed “absurdity of common gender assumptions”? I am laughing that a Feminist Writer states that “Only Men Can Stop Rape” – thereby Fallaciously giving all men dominion over all Rapists including Female rapists who target men and or women. The Patriarchy Lives – Soraya L. Chemaly cultivator of feminism through Humour and “designed to illustrate the absurdity of common gender assumptions.” she says so – and gives men dominion!

        “Women, not even consciously, incorporate their protective responses and defenses into everything they do. ”

        So it’s only women who have to do that? How Discriminatory can you get? Let me show you just how!

        “…. the power, the crime, the threat, and the jokes—is acceptable.

        What about other forms of “HATE CRIME”? What about disability and having to change everything you do to protect your physical integrity – That Means “Disability Hate Crime Culture” and as a Disabled Man I don’t find that Humorous at all! I have even had to teach able bodied women the techniques – so I say how dare anyone dismiss other people in such a way and make it all about rape!

        Ever had to be treated like an idiot because others see themselves as powerful over you?

        The Jokes are not much fun either!

        The threat? wow … some aint had to consider that one have they!

        The Crime? Ever looked at the stats for hate Crime and abuse – ever had to campaign to get them recognised?

        It demeans the teaching of children to avoid Stranger danger in all forms – and that is not all rape. How about the Elderly and purse snatching and mugging – no rape there! How about Dealing with matters in a professional capacity as a Shop Owner. Ever heard of Gun Crime and Stick Em UP and open the cash Register?

        No No – no one but women have to change their behaviour at any time to consider personal security!

        Being GAY is no fun when you go out for the night and when you are leaving a bar or club – or even on route to one – you have to make sure your personal security is addressed. “Hate Crime Culture” Wins Again! But then again – In only have over 3 decades of dealing with that one!

        How about a male or female who due to unemployment ends up living in a Crime Infested neighbourhood with all the personal security management that entails “Economic and down on your luck Culture” – Of course they have no concerns as to personal safety, as the only personal security issue that gets trotted out by so many writers is It’s All Rape and It’s All men!

        I’ll pass that onto the judge next time I’m in court with that female drug addict – the one with the knife who thought I was an easy target, as she gets sentenced! Please Judge – It isn’t that bad! It wasn’t covered by Rape Culture!

        No! No-one has to worry about Personal Security! They don’t have to worry because Rape Culture is the only standard that everyone has to think about and all else Pales Into Insignificance !

        If Rape Culture is so big and powerful and all pervasive and such an answer – why as a Model Does it only address some social ills – and why do so many more others get “”NO”” air time?

        One wonders at the Bio – and because this piece has a very different context that does need to be very closely studied from all available sources.

        Bias and Privilege is a “No No” in so many ways – and The “Privilege” that “Rape Culture” is getting over all else does need to be referenced – and if that means looking at a Writers Background that is more than reasonable!

        The Privilege spilling over for the writer beggars belief!

        It seems the only answer to Rape Culture is for everyone to be so defensive that No-one ever consider anything but the Spectre of Rape. because of the Culture Of Fear that is being peddled against men and women is so completely!

  54. Jack Varnell says:

    It is very important to note here the Department Of Justice today changed the wording defining rape to include Men, and children as well as Women. Part of the excitement over this besides the obvious is now that it is recognized at a Federal level, the amount of resources devoted to victims rights, victim reparation, and justice pursuit should begin to free up for all. Progress, but the war has only begun in keeping the focus on eliminating this mindset, the social acceptance and denial of this as a personal, and cultural issue in all communities.

    • David Byron says:

      That’s not true really. The definition of rape does NOT include a woman who forces a man to have sex with her for example. Basically if a man gets raped in the same way a woman would get raped (by being penetrated) then he counts as a victim, but if he gets raped as if he were a man then it doesn’t count.

      Now it is important to note that this is just the UCR definition used by the FBI for statistics. It’s not a legal definition. Women who rape men would be (in theory anyway) guilty of rape of first degree sexual assault I think anywhere in the country.

    • “Progress, but the war has only begun in keeping the focus on eliminating this mindset, the social acceptance and denial of this as a personal, and cultural issue in all communities.”

      I have to wonder why this is listed as “Feature Content” and not actually filed where it belongs under “Gender”?

    • @Jack

      I see that the change has been announced on many channels – and it is even getting coverage globally. It seems to mostly be some shock that since 1927 the FBI and US Government have been … er… Narrow Minded?

      FBI for example:
      http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape

      “Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape
      Data Reported on Rape Will Better Reflect State Criminal Codes, Victim Experiences”

      “These long overdue updates to the definition of rape will help ensure justice for those whose lives have been devastated by sexual violence and reflect the Department of Justice’s commitment to standing with rape victims,” Attorney General Holder said. “This new, more inclusive definition will provide us with a more accurate understanding of the scope and volume of these crimes.”

      “The revised definition of rape sends an important message to the broad range of rape victims that they are supported and to perpetrators that they will be held accountable,” said Justice Department Director of the Office on Violence Against Women Susan B. Carbon. “We are grateful for the dedicated work of all those involved in making and implementing the changes that reflect more accurately the devastating crime of rape.”

      “The longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.” It thus included only forcible male penile penetration of a female vagina and excluded oral and anal penetration; rape of males; penetration of the vagina and anus with an object or body part other than the penis; rape of females by females; and non-forcible rape.”

      Pity it still is not actually Gender Neutral and it does not fully meet the accepted International Standard Definition Of Rape:

      “a physical invasion of a sexual nature, committed on a person under circumstances which are coercive”

      The definitions adopted by the FBI and US Government still allow for a woman to coercively make a man penetrate her and for it to not be rape. It only covers acts where the criminal is penetrating another – not where the innocent party is made or coerced to penetrate. That even fails to recognise known patterns of child sex abuse.

      Of course – since the definitions of rape have been so badly handled since 1927, it also does bring into questions so many statistics that keep getting used and which have been in line with the narrow minded and limited definitions.

      It also has me wondering ( a very bad thing for anyone to prompt ) about the explosion of the Rape Culture meme in the US over 2011 – and also makes me wonder, if it has been more about “Marketing” and social exploitation in full knowledge of this impending change – and that leads me to have to consider the possibility of most Cynical Exploitation of the American Public and Gender Politics.

      I suspect I can hear a few voices laughing in the background and saying “well at least we have poisoned the well enough to get another decade – so exactly how to we make sure the next net and social media campaign goes as well as this one?”

      • Mediahound

        FYI

        The new definitions were were designed and out forward by feminist groups including Feminist Majority Foundation. The definitions were put forward at closed meeting between feminists groups and the FBI.

        In Israel last year, feminist groups blocked moves to put rape of men and children by envelopment on the books.

        • EDIT.

          “The new definitions were designed and put forward by”

        • Julie Gillis says:

          If you have cites would you consider sharing them here? I’d appreciate reading them.

          • “The Office of Violence Against Women (OVW) worked closely with White House Advisor on Violence Against Women Lynn Rosenthal and the Office of the Vice President, as well as multiple DOJ divisions, to modernize the definition. The change was supported by external partners such as the National Sheriffs Association, National Association of Police Organizations, International Association of Chiefs of Police, Major City Chiefs, Major County Sheriffs, and the Police Executive Research Forum. ”

            http://blogs.usdoj.gov/blog/archives/1801

            I do hate to have to say this Julie, but there was a clear bias in the parties who formed the working group which came up with the definition – that was then supported by groups that did not necessarily have expertise and even interest in spotting the holes!

            • Julie Gillis says:

              Thank you Media Hound. I’ll be reading that.

              • Julie – it is also worth noting that in particular “Feminist Majority Foundation” campaigned for the change of definition on the grounds that the old 1927 definition meant that rape which was committed whilst the victim was drunk was excluded from FBI/DOJ stats. Consent was the big central issue.

                New Definition:

                ““The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” ”

                Scenario – male drunk and unconscious with erection – no consent possible – female or male jumps on and has fun! Under the “NEW” Definition there has been no rape, as rape Requires “Active” Penetration and not “Passive”.

                If “Feminist Majority Foundation” were so vexed over alcohol and consent, why did the obvious get missed?

                I’m still attempting to find out if any single GAY advocacy group was given space at the table. If they had been they would have spotted the error in seconds. Penetration is not the same as “Envelopment”.

                It’s a simple case of working the Scenarios to see if the “NEW” definition fits! It takes seconds. How was it missed?

                Either the committee members all need to be fired as incompetent idiots, else there has been some Political Fudging going on, which is I believe Unconstitutional – 14th Amendment.

                The “NEW” definition also has most serious failures concerning child sexual abuse abuse/Rape where the perpetrator is female and the victim male.

                • That boils my blood so much, there are groups that represent male rape and abuse, why weren’t they involved?! A very clear bias and one that will win no friends. One has to question why they would make the rape definition disregard many male victims, when I hear “conspiracy theory” uses as a joke by feminists I wonder if they actually realize why men feel there is a conspiracy, because stuff like the above sure starts to smell like it.

              • FAO Julie NY Times September 28, 2011

                “The public has the right to know about the prevalence of crime and violent crime in our communities, and we know that data drives practices, resources, policies and programs,” said Carol Tracy, executive director of the Women’s Law Project in Philadelphia, whose office has campaigned to get the F.B.I. to change its definition of sexual assault. “It’s critical that we strive to have accurate information about this.”

                Ms. Tracy spoke Friday at a meeting in Washington, organized by the Police Executive Research Forum, that brought together police chiefs, sex-crime investigators, federal officials and advocates to discuss the limitations of the federal definition and the wider issue of local police departments’ not adequately investigating rape. ”
                http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/us/federal-rules-on-rape-statistics-criticized.html

                Police Executive Research Forum
                http://www.policeforum.org/news/detail.dot?id=2396180

                “The PERF Conference on Improving the Police Response to Sexual Assaults
                The inadequacies of the UCR definition of rape was one of many issues discussed at the PERF conference. John Timoney, who took office as Police Commissioner in Philadelphia in 1998, shortly before the Philadelphia Inquirer published a series of articles exposing the deliberate downgrading of rape cases in that city, described a series of reforms he undertook. Those reforms included the formation of a partnership between the Police Department and the Women’s Law Project, which continues to this day, in which the Women’s Law Project was invited to monitor the Police Department’s handling of sexual assault cases. Villanova Law Professor Michelle Madden Dempsey has said that the Philadelphia program “exemplifies the positive changes that can be realized when advocates and local law enforcement come together to discuss the reasons why some cases are not pursued by law enforcement,” and that it “can serve as a model for the rest of the United States.”

                I have been wading through the Evidence given to “Senate Judiciary Committee
                Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs” September 14, 2010 – it is quite shocking and the evidence prone to a tad of bias!

                http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=e655f9e2809e5476862f735da16234b9

                There seems to have been great focus on the need to Update a definition – but little to no query as to what Rape Is and how it occurs. A Rather Big Blind spot and worrying since the Senate Chair even admits on video that he used to be a DA. Even those taking part and giving evidence under the burden of being legally qualified just make it clear “The Law Is An Ass”.

                At the Outset The Chairman states that the Senate Committee hearing was at the Request of The “Women’s Law Project” and was due to extensive media coverage of concerns as to the Inaccuracies on the report of rape. Odd how they have ended up with an Inaccurate definition which The Government Should have noticed.

                Male rape is mentioned once in evidence and not defined.

                One major area of discussion is how accurate reporting will increase the public’s perception around rape as figures are going to jump markedly. How that will feed in to the much debated Rape Culture Model is evidently of concern – It could well lead to even more debate with all men being seen in an even worse light.

          • Here Julie

            h tt p://www.avoiceformen.com/updates/fbi-advisory-board-approves-new-definition-of-rape/

            I’m going to have go and look for the article from the Israeli news paper about the feminist groups keeping female on male / child rape by envelopment off the books.

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